Latest / Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy / Unburned: A Slightly Messy, Mostly Honest Guide to Life After Burnout with Sarah Oelschig
Transcript
- [Mary Meyer] Welcome back to Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy, I have with us today Sarah Oelschig and she is also from Nashville which is super fun for me. She has written a book that I think is going to be relevant to about everyone, some degree at some point in your life called Unburned, A Slightly Messy, Mostly Honest Guide to Life After Burnout. So I'm excited about hearing all that. We have a podcast sponsor, Mindiii, M-I-N-D-I-I-I and they are an IT company that manages websites all the back end stuff that IT people do to keep your data safe and even build hardware and apps, so that's kind of fun. So Sarah, you wrote Unburned and I started reading it, I didn't have time to read through the whole thing, I wanted to, but it is so, you're a great writer. Oh, thanks! I think people are going to enjoy just how easy it is to read, it's like you're in the room talking to you, so tell us about how this book came about. [Sarah Oelschig] This book came about through various things happening, so a lot of it is based upon my own experience dealing with burnout, but a few years ago, post COVID and everything that happened there, I remember sitting on a Zoom call with a bunch of my co-workers and everybody hung up, but I just stayed there and didn't know what to do next and looked at, describe it in the book. I had a lunch of popcorn and Junior Mints and Diet Coke and I was like, what am I doing here? My brain almost turned off, I did not know what to do next or how I even got here. From that point, I took various steps to try to figure out what I really wanted to do next. Obviously work was not working for me, I felt very disconnected from my home life as well, very irritable, that's one of the things that I describe in the book as being a symptom of burnout, very irritable, anxious all the time. From there, I really started focusing on myself and taking a step back and really reflecting on where I wanted to go from there. That did lead me into taking a class in coaching, so I took a step back at work, I ended up taking a class in coaching and a lot of what I learned in that course is reflected in the book as well. From there, I decided after being approached by someone about writing about it that I wanted to write about it and so it just developed from there. [Mary Meyer] You have a life that you describe, it would be hard to step back from because you have family in the area, you have children, you're married, you have a corporate job. It just seems like that is a lot for anyone in modern day world to manage and understandable for burnout. [Sarah Oelschig] I think a lot of people who go through burnout are extremely high achievers from the outside. Everything looks wonderful and you're able to balance all of these things and have this amazing life, like the Instagram life, everything looks great from the outside. But on the inside, you feel like you're falling apart and often times I think people don't talk about it, they just maintain that outside appearance that everything is okay and keep going and going and going until they just can't go anymore and that's what I feel happened with me and what I've seen in working with people being in HR as they struggle with burnout. And so that facade that we keep up really can only last so long and I do think a lot of high achievers fall into that very easily. But the difference, some people ask me, well, how do you tell the difference between burnout and depression? And there are other things too, like menopause, perimenopause that might look very similar type of symptoms. And again, I always tell people it's important to talk to professionals, talk to a therapist, talk to a doctor about what you're experiencing. But the biggest difference I see between depression and burnout is that it is that facade. A lot of times when someone is dealing with depression, which I have dealt with, you can't get up, you can't do the things that you would normally do physically or mentally. You're just in a state of limbo almost. With burnout, you can keep functioning, but inside you may feel, again, like you're crumbling. [Mary Meyer] That's so real, you know, in this world too. I feel like I've talked to a lot of professional women recently in my life that have, you know, you keep up the work and the job, but you're dealing with major health issues, might even be horrible abuse, some of them are dealing with abuse issues too, like all the different things that you're not assuming a woman in particular is dealing with in the workplace who's showing up and being the boss, you know, doing the job. So there is a somewhat common stress load, I think, with that. So specifically, let's go through the different categories of life. What changes did you make with work and then or what would you recommend people do in their work if it's causing burnout? [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, so that's a hard one because everybody is in a different situation. So I will say in my case, I got to the point I had a really good relationship with my manager and I was able to approach her and say, I just can't do this anymore. I need to either shift my schedule or I have to quit. I just I'm at that that point. And we were able to work out a reduced schedule that I was able to do for it was a little less than a year, actually, that I that I was given that opportunity. And that is not something everybody can do one because of business needs and also because money, I mean, frankly, a lot of people need that paycheck coming in. So that might work for some people, other people I've talked to, you know, they're sabbaticals that some companies offer as well. But I think in those cases where that is not possible, the most important thing that you can do. If you're comfortable now, this is this is not easy for everybody to do. It's the hardest thing to do is really to ask for help and say, I'm having I'm having problems and be specific about it. You know, are you having troubles because of workload prioritizing? Is it the hours? What be very specific about what it is? And ask your manager for help. And if you have a good manager, hopefully they'll sit down with you and make a plan. Of how this is going to work. Maybe it's that you need help prioritizing every morning or every week at the start of the week to try to get things to a more manageable place for yourself. That's a very simple level. Maybe that's that. Or maybe it is reduced hours and we need to figure out for however the length of time is that you need to take a step back if the rest of the team can come. Just like if someone is sick or ill or injured, can come in to support you during those hours that you're not able to work. Now, again, not everybody has a manager like that or a company that's willing to help there. So in the case of that, it comes down to making a hard decision. If you are in a place where, and Christina Maslak who does a lot of burnout research talks about this, that burnout in the workplace is due to a mismatch between the person and the workplace. So that mismatch could be anything from values to hours to what you're actually doing, expectations. Any of the mismatches that are rubbing up against you can cause burnout. When you match with your workplace, you are more in tune with what's going on, able to deliver, et cetera. So that becomes a decision of, well, should I stay here or do I need to find something else that is more in line with what I need and my values, et cetera. And so that's the harder conversation to have with yourself and maybe you need to find someone else to talk to, whether that's a coach, a therapist, a colleague, whoever it is to really figure out where that mismatch is and whether it's enough for you to decide to leave. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. [Mary Meyer] And I think that is, that can be such a, it's major. It's a major life thing. And there's so many different stressors that can come down with work. Of course, that's, oh, yeah, the money and paying for everything. So of course that's going to be in life, something that's going to hopefully bring you a lot of joy, but it certainly can be a cause of stress in many ways. Yes. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. And that probably could be a whole nother topic of conversation of what can businesses do to help their employees. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh, yes. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. Live a healthy life where there's not burnout and that kind of thing. So there's probably a few good companies out there that are, have done research on that. But I think in general, it's still kind of a, that's your problem. [Sarah Oelschig] It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. It does come down. Yeah. It's your problem. Get through it. Just, you know, come to work, do the work go. And I think a lot of people do struggle with feeling that they have safety and trust at work. Those are the two, the most important things to have in your work. And yes, not all companies offer that. And if you don't feel that psychological safety at work, you're not going to raise your hand and say, I'm struggling. Um, because yes, they could, they could fire you. They could, um, retaliate against you. Obviously that's not, that's not the right way for companies to go about doing things, but they have ways of, you know, doing that. And so, um, And so it, it becomes, um, a struggle to really figure out what, what your, you feel comfortable doing and really look out for yourself. And then, yeah. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. Yeah. That's a, like, that just feels like that could be an entire career setting that just that one thing right there. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh yeah. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. Uh, so for you, what else, what other changes did you make? Like was there, let's go like to another topic. I know you said some stuff about how you were eating, um, and then it's popcorn. So did you, did you make any diet changes or was that any kind of focus on the burnout? [Sarah Oelschig] It's not in the book. Although, you know, and I'm, I'm not a nutrition expert, but of course I'm well aware that, you know, in moderation is always good with things. So, um, Eating, eating at normal times and eating regular, regular portions of things and trying to eat as healthy as I can. Yes. That's definitely part of it along with sleep. The, a big part of what I talk about is more so giving myself the time to reflect and that can be, it can be really short. I'm not talking about, you know, just vomiting onto a bunch of journal pages. What I'm talking about more is, you know, okay, I had a really bad day today. Just acknowledging that, you know, for instance, I had a really bad day today. Or even in the case of the food thing, say, I could say, okay, I ate like crap today. Like I just, what can I do tomorrow so that I don't do that tomorrow? Cause I know I'll feel better if I don't do that. And then because I've said that out loud or written it down or what in between the two, whatever it is, um, I will take, I'll be more likely to take steps to do something different tomorrow. And so at that point I can say, okay, if I don't want to do that again tomorrow, I'm going to plan out what I'm going to eat tomorrow tonight. So those types of reflections are things that I started doing. And I talk about in the book, um, because if you like journaling or if you like, um, you know, some people, they don't like to write, so they'll do, um, audio. They'll record themselves talking, things like that. That's perfectly fine. But, um, I talk about how if you really want to change your, your habits or change the way that you're thinking and feeling about things, taking those steps to acknowledge, and then think about how you're going to change it to make it better for yourself is going to help you more in the long run than just, you know, getting everything out on, on a page because yes, that helps too. But oftentimes we're not looking back at what we've written to see any patterns or to make any changes. And so this comes a lot from coaching, where, you know, you'll say to your coach, um, that you want to change something. And so they'll say, okay, great. How are we going to do that? Let's put together a plan. So, um, that's a lot of what I started doing. So again, going back to the wellness food sleep thing, it was less about here's my regimen, but more this is not making me feel good. Therefore let's play on what I'm going to do, you know, tomorrow, this week, et cetera. [Mary Meyer] That's so much just great wisdom on this podcast. I talk so much about all these different parts because I do think gentle, being gentle with yourself is this critical time that we're living in because nearly everything was working against us. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh yeah. [Mary Meyer] And so being mindful of the different things and it's not, and just giving yourself grace when it's not perfect because you're not going to reach, reach perfection. Oh no. And I, I have that probably type A perfectionist side that has been beaten out of me over the years. Yes. Because that's what happens. [Sarah Oelschig] Yes, eventually, hopefully. [Mary Meyer] But, you know, started like being the high performer that wanted to do everything. And then my health crashed pretty young. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going to do some research in my twenties. So it just, and so then you, you just go, I am going to do some research on how, what better way that I can nourish my body and do some research on better ways to get good sleep and do some research on entrepreneurship, which I cover on here because maybe there's not a great workplace. Yeah. I've been through several that have been like, you know, shockingly weird in terms of just aggressive management. So we'll just use that term, but yeah, you know, so all these different things, thinking things will go bad with family, with friends so that you have. And, and then the multiple layers of just chemicals and different things that we deal with. So totally understandable that you reach the burnout. And so, okay. So we talked about food. So sleep was a big thing. Is there things you did to kind of help yourself get better sleep? [Sarah Oelschig] That one is a hard one for me. And for multiple reasons. One, I have young kids, so that just makes it hard in general. So hard. It's so hard. And two, at the time I had a job where, and a lot of people do now where you're working with global across, across the globe with people. And so not everyone's on at the same time zone. And so sometimes you do have to talk to people at night or early in the morning, which is not ideal, but it's just, just how it, how it goes sometimes. And so finding, that regular cadence is what's very important to me. So some of the things I did, and I talk about this in the book, which is easier said than done. I do talk a lot about cell phones and how distracting they are. And at my worst, I was using it as a self soothing type tool. So the doom scrolling as people like to call it, or, you know, just on the phone at night, going through things on Instagram or YouTube, whatever you're doing. I was using that a lot to self, self soothe and it was cutting into my sleep time because of the algorithm or because, you know, I was making myself feel good, but I actually needed sleep. And so I do talk about ways to cut that tether from your phone. And I did things like turning it off or essentially on do not disturb after 9pm and just saying, I'm not going to look at it or even putting it in another room. Like I would put it in the bathroom or a closet so that I, it wasn't even near me. And I also talk about, I did try some apps for a while that basically, I think it was called refocus where you can set a time limit for certain apps. So once you reach that time limit, you can't access that app anymore for the rest of the day. So there are different things that I talk about, but for me, it was a combination of letting go of that habit. And making a commitment to myself to say, you know, 10 30 is my bedtime. That's when I'm going to bed. And so therefore, like I was saying at nine o'clock, that's when the technology and all the screens go off. And that's when I committed to myself to bring back reading, which is something I used to love. And I kind of put to the side. And so I use reading a lot now to help myself get to sleep. And from there, and it's hard, there were lots of starts and stops because that, that call to the phone is super strong for me. And I imagine it is for a lot of people out there. And you just get in that habit and it's a really hard habit to break. But, you know, I'm not perfect. It still comes up. It's still hard to, to do when I get into some phases where I rely more on the phone and then I break away and go back. But I feel like I'm in a good, I'm in a good place now where I'm able to recognize it and start again. And so I think going back to when we were talking about, I started thinking about a lot of this as part of like atomic habits to that James Clear book, where if you make, it's easier to make small changes than it is to go cold turkey on things. And so like you were saying, giving yourself grace during this time, a lot of it has to do with the way that you talk to yourself and say, you know, okay, maybe I needed that. For, for the last couple of nights, but now we're going to start again and not beating yourself up for doing it because, you know, it's, it's hard. The cell phone's ubiquitous. It's not going away. It's something, it's something we're going to have to deal with. So, so I still struggle, you know, starting to get into that perimenopause part of my life. Sleep is becoming harder. But I'm doing the best that I can. So yeah. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. Yeah. That self gentleness is so huge. I've had, I've had a couple of people on talking about sleep. So just to rip off that a little bit. Yeah. A couple of brain doctors. Oh yeah. So actually I had, I didn't have this brain doctor on, but I've had a lot of conversations with them. And then the work that they did was on. So his main thing is getting morning sunlight before. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. [Mary Meyer] And then the morning, A clock in the morning with no glasses on. No window because just stepping outside. It's the circadian rhythm. That actually makes your brain. More adaptable. Your brain will be better. Suited for work and then it will. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh, great. Yeah. [Mary Meyer] For sleep. So it's better suited for what you got to do. And that was, that was a critical thing for me. Like. He did a, they did a brain scan on me just for. Oh, wow. Just for giggles. And yeah, because I was doing some work with them. And they're like, Yeah, you have, you have some problems. I'm like, I know this is right about a year ago, when I started this podcast. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh, wow. [Mary Meyer] A lot of it for me, this podcast is like a book for you. It's like, what is going on? Like, I've, I've researched so much, I've done so many things for health. And it's like, I'm nowhere. I had like, I haven't even seen it before. And it was, and I do my best, but you don't even have to be directly in the sunlight, you can be sitting in shade if it's hot out, as long as there's it's sun in the morning, and you'll get that. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. [Mary Meyer] Reset of your that's what your brain needs. So all those connections to nature, which we are very denatured in terms of how we live our life. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh, yes. [Mary Meyer] So that's probably part of it. And then the screens, like you talk about, you know, their blue light and blue light is for morning. Yes. So we need red light at night. That's like, if you think of again, back to nature, the fire, you know, right? They have a fire is red. So yeah, those those things. So also one more riff about the phone I had, I was in, which is my networking meeting this week. And someone she's like, I got to do my phone, get rid of the phone addiction. So she bought something because she had like the apps that said timers and she yeah, press skip. Yeah. So there's something she called it the block. I'll have to find out. [Sarah Oelschig] Yes, I've heard of them. Yeah. [Mary Meyer] And put it and she puts it in her garage. So when you tap it, that you can't access the apps. Yes, you're still using your phone for work and calls and whatever email, but you can't access whatever app she put on there. So social media apps or whatever until you come back and tap it again. [Sarah Oelschig] Yes. [Mary Meyer] So that's, I suppose you could do that at night too. You could tap it in your garage and then you'd be like, you'd be really mindful. Yeah, having to walk all the way to your garage. [Sarah Oelschig] True. [Mary Meyer] To do it or something. [Sarah Oelschig] It depends how nervous you are about getting, you know, emergency calls at night, I suppose, and things like that. Because I do talk to people like, but what if something, what if something happens? [Mary Meyer] It's not the whole phone. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. It's not the whole phone. Yeah. [Mary Meyer] It's just the social media. So the guys come through. That's my, that's definitely my understanding of it. Yeah. Yeah. Clothes work, GPS works. It just blocks the apps that are distracting you. Yeah. [Sarah Oelschig] So no, that's great. [Mary Meyer] Whatever works because it ever works. Yeah. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. In the book, I also talk about turning your phone. I've had some friends do this. They turn their phone to grayscale mode. So everything is in black and white on the phone, which psychologically, yeah, psychologically, it makes it less appealing because as we know, you know, through marketing, marketers use bright colors in order to get us to pay attention and buy things. And so we're our brains are wired to respond to those bright, flashing colors. And of course, social media is all part of that. And so you can change your phone, both Apple and Android have a setting, you can change it to grayscale mode. Everything kind of looks like a security video. I tracked it for a while. It did definitely reduce my screen time, but it didn't totally. And then I just got really irritated after a while. So not for everybody, but I have had friends who have done that. And I've also had friends who have given up their smartphones for a flip phone and gone kind of back in time. And again, not everyone can do that because of work and other other things. And like my kids have a million apps for school for, you know, they had it for daycare. You can't go without these apps for for childcare and things like that. So not everybody can do that. But I have had friends who have just said I'm not dealing with it anymore. [Mary Meyer] So yeah, I have I had a couple guys on early on who were doing a startup where they're making dumb smartphones and oh yeah, it's addressing this issue. So they're doing refurbished smartphones and the apps that are on there are you can request apps to get on there, but it really is just like your GPS utility base. Yeah, yeah. And then the apps you need for work or maybe for banking, you know, so that the things that are very utilitarian without the distracting ones that, you know, and some people, they might be great, but you know, but for the ones that are causing you to not live life, right? If that's the situation, it's an app is causing you to not live life, the social media, whatever it is, then that's it was fun. That's it. Yeah, cool thing they're doing is called sleek. [Sarah Oelschig] Okay, very cool. [Mary Meyer] Sleke. So hopefully they take off. But it is. Yeah, it is. I think a lot of people are just this is a common, common issue. [Sarah Oelschig] It is a common issue. And then you got to worry about it for your kids as they get older. So it just kind of it's just kind of perpetuates. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, yeah, yeah, the internet access that can be a scary thing for sure. Mm hmm. Yeah. So a relationship with family and everything like that was that part? I mean, like how did that change in your as you kind of moved away from burnout all the all the relationships as you mentioned in the book to Yeah, definitely for the better. [Sarah Oelschig] I didn't really realize until I had started looking at my own behavior, that I was very distant from my husband from my kids. So I talk about in the book how my husband and I just spoke in logistics, you know, who's picking up the kids? Who's taking them to the doctor? What are we having for dinner? Not not much else for for a while. And part of that is just being the parent of small kids. I'm sure everybody goes through it. But I had no desire to kind of move beyond it. It was just like a habit. And then snapping at my kids was a big thing for me just being irritated and at my husband too and being irritated with my co workers all the time. That that was something that I realized was happening more and I didn't like it. And I really made an effort to work work on that because I knew, you know, if I I was waking up feeling irritated with myself, essentially, I was going to project projected on others. And it was so it did get a lot better once I realized what the root of it was. And what I needed to do was really come back to myself. And we haven't really talked about this yet. But coming back to reconnecting with myself and what I needed and what made brought me joy and what I really valued. And that was at the point where my behavior started shifting and I could appreciate my family again, I was really taking them for granted during that time period and very, very much disconnected from everyone. Yeah. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, I did read in the book where you said a friend asked you what did you used to what did you like to do when you were a kid? [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. [Mary Meyer] And that was maybe the the wake up call of going. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, tell us about it was Yeah, I was just venting I was having a random conversation with her and just venting about everything. And that's what she just suddenly asked me that and I describe in the book. Yeah, I'm just I just stopped. I was like, What does that have to do with any like, why are you asking me that? And I couldn't answer. Um, I couldn't think of anything I liked now or then. And so took me a bit and I sat and thought about it. And then I started, you know, remembering, okay, what what I liked and, you know, riding bikes, being outside, um, baking, um, and then the piano I talk about. So I grew up playing piano, played all the way through college, um, did some competitions and things like that. But I I had put it to the side at some point during college and hadn't really come back to it. And I had a piano and played it in forever. And once I remember that, I said, Oh, you know, the piano is something that I really enjoyed. And so I described how I sat down and started playing it took out a piece and started playing it and it was awful. I hated it. And I was like, why am I doing this? This is not this is not right. And so I stopped after I got frustrated, I stopped, took a bit and then I came back to it and I tried again. And that's when I felt this connection, this reconnection to it that I felt like I was tapping into something that I hadn't felt in a long time. And it, it really felt like I was reconnecting back to myself and something that brought me joy. And there's something about for me, it's always been something about the music and being able to put my feelings into the music and let them out that way. And so that that opened the door for me to kind of rediscover all of these things that I had put to the side and reconnect with them. And yeah, that's a big part of the book is picking up those things that you thought as you grew up, maybe, you know, you said, oh, that's for kids or you someone made fun of you for doing it, or maybe, you know, just kind of got lost in the shuffle along the way. And so whatever it is, Lego or coloring or like I was saying, riding your bike outside, dancing, all of these things that we grew up loving. And as we grew up, you know, society culture tells us that you need to put those away once you become an adult. Those are the things that bring us joy. We should keep doing them. So I think it's it's very important. And I also talk about it's okay, like, like with me, it's okay, if you do it badly. You haven't done it in 2030 years. You know, just just try just do it for five minutes, see what happens. And if it really doesn't connect with you, then try something else. Yeah, I think we do leave a lot of ourselves behind and, you know, nostalgia, as much as people kind of put it in its own bucket. I think it's something that's important to revisit because as a kid, and I talk about this with movies and TV too, and in the book a little bit, they make such an imprint on our on our brains when we're kids and adolescents. There's a reason why people who grew up with Star Wars are still in love with Star Wars, because they saw that lightsaber on the screen and it almost imprinted on their brain. And so those are the things that we carry with us and they can really and I'm not saying you should live your life in the past, but you should bring them forward into your life now and share it with others and make sure it's a part of what you're doing. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, the piano thing definitely resonated with me because I also like played piano, you know, practiced at a level that was concert pianist level. Sure. Oh, that's awesome. Actually at that level, but that's what I was, you know, practicing. So I just remembering that it's all the way back to college where I was like in a state of distress and I went into a music practice room and just was playing piano. Yeah, that's a way to de-stress. And then I had the piano and as the kids came, I really didn't go back to it. Yeah. Because I didn't want to wake them up if they were sleeping and they would be on my lap if I was playing, which is what I should have embraced looking back. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, all the reasons. Yeah. [Mary Meyer] I should have embraced them on my lap, but you think about, okay, just think about an instrument though, in terms of like, it is a mind-body connection where there's, and the screens in juxtaposition to all the screens we do now, which is a not a mind-body interaction. It's just a kind of a voyeurism and we all do it. And you know, like there's no judgment in me saying, and I'm on a podcast or we're on a screen right now. So there's purpose in it that we use it for, but it might not just be nostalgia. Maybe it is actually something where it used to be, you go back to 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, so you just go back not that far. It's a time when every adult lived through, where it wasn't, we were doing the things like that. We were outside more. We were riding bikes more. Yeah. We were, you know, doing instruments and playing sports and the things. And I just feel like that has, we have become more disengaged with things that actually we've always just gravitated towards and it feels good because we're using our more than just our head and our eyeballs. You know, we're using our whole body to run, jump, ride a bike, balance, learn an instrument, all those different parts of the brain that get triggered. So there's something very healthy about it too, don't you think? [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. I think it's, yeah, it is. It's using your mind, your body, you're expressing yourself. Yeah. And it really, unfortunately, has gone to the wayside. And, you know, it's something that I think, I wish I could say we could go back, you know, and go bring it all back. But I think it's just something that we all need to express the importance of more and talk about more. Because, yes, the lure of the screens is huge and they are everywhere and we're using them now. And all sorts of things, they do have utility to them. And my kids wouldn't see their grandma regularly if we didn't have FaceTime. So that is super important. But there is something about being a kid and being allowed to experiment and try things and express yourself that is a very important part of growing up. So, yeah. [Mary Meyer] And some of it just could be mindfulness, you know, it's really easy to eat junk and watch junk is the natural way. Yes. So it just, and I love, this is part why I just love what you're saying. It's, I think, I call it an epiphany you have where you wrote the book is probably just a pretty common, in some ways, thing that you're drawing attention to. And I'm sure a lot of people will resonate with that too, you know. [Sarah Oelschig] I hope so. And what I'm trying to say too is that if you are feeling really burned out, you don't need to add a bunch more to your life. You don't need to, and I do mention this in the book too, where, you know, if you go on the Mayo Clinic's website, they'll talk about that you need to do all these things to recover from burnout. So it is, you know, maybe try yoga, reinvent your sleeping routine, eat better, all these things that sound good, but when you're really burned out, trying to do all of these things is very overwhelming. And so my idea is that you need to, everything you have that is going to help you is probably already within you. It's just coming back to yourself and what is important to you. So yes, it's okay. You know, if yoga is your thing, please, by all means, go do it. But if it's not, adding it to your routine is probably not going to help you in the long run, if it's just one more thing for you to do. Because, and especially high achievers, we like to have a plan and say, okay, I'm feeling awful. This needs to change. Here's my 10-step plan for figuring it out. But you're just going to recreate that cycle of burnout by doing that. And so it is a bit more about letting go and making small shifts back to yourself. [Mary Meyer] That's, well, that's a beautiful and profound advice. Small shifts to get back to yourself. And even asking the question, what does it mean to get back to myself? Like, what is that? What is that even? [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, which will be different for everybody. And does take patience. It's not like I was saying earlier about after my friend asked me that question, it took me patience to sit down and really think about it. I could have just gone on and not ever thought about it again. And I could have kept ignoring the piano. But it's allowing yourself. It's almost like when your brain tells you, says, I should really call that friend. Or I should really text that friend. And that kind of goes by. And then a few days later, the same thought, I should really call that person. And you just keep pushing it off and pushing it off until it gets so awkward. You're like, I haven't talked to that person in six months or something like that. And so you just don't do it. I think it's similar here with mindfulness and sitting down and actually listening to yourself and what you are telling yourself. Give yourself that chance to sit down and reflect and try it. If something is calling to you, try it. Don't ignore it. [Mary Meyer] And then life, I think, becomes playful. Don't you think? Yeah. Otherwise, it's this list. And it is always in many ways going to be this to do list. [Sarah Oelschig] Oh, yeah. Forever to do list. [Mary Meyer] Yeah. [Sarah Oelschig] And you'll always feel behind. Like you'll never. Yeah, yeah. You'll never catch up to what you're trying to do. [Mary Meyer] No, and I am so far behind. I'm like, I just feel like I'm eternally behind. And and I just I have recently because I recently moved again and then switched jobs. And it really is just one of these things where it's like, I am one person. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. [Mary Meyer] One thing, I'm just one person. Like, so you do come to that, I think. And then for me, I feel like it's finding the joyfulness. You know, the little pieces of a day that's going to go the way it's going to go. And you might already know you have your list of because it does sound like you're still doing the stuff. You're still working and still working. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah. Still have the kids. I've gotten rid of the kids. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, yeah, they're all still here. [Sarah Oelschig] But yeah, it's taking the time to. Yeah, I come back to the Ferris Bueller line that he says at the end of the movie or just taking the time to stop and look around once in a while and appreciate what's around you. There are little things you can find every day. If you are going outside for those 10 minutes in the morning and watching the birds, you know, in my instance, watching the birds hop around in the morning and sing, feel old saying that. But I mean, there are things to appreciate. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, sometimes. [Sarah Oelschig] Everywhere. [Mary Meyer] You got to say old things. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, or maybe you made the perfect cup of coffee that day. Like, you know, whatever. Put the perfect amount of sugar and your coffee, whatever it is. We spend so much time rushing to get from one thing to the next. Not enough time slowing down. You don't don't have to rush through the grocery store. You can slow down. You don't have to rush, you know, to to do these things that we're we're doing on a daily basis. It's OK to slow down and appreciate things. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, yeah, sing with the kids. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, yeah, hang out with them. Play games with them. Be goofy with them. [Mary Meyer] Yeah, yeah, that does bring and as much as much as the kids do drain their your energy. And when they're older, they it's always like a drain on energy, but they also give energy. Yes, they give energy and they they light up your world. Oh, yeah. That can that definitely is both. And you get both. Yeah, yeah. All those years. Yeah. Well, Sarah, thank you for all this. And such such a great reminder of, you know, finding your way back to yourself and being mindful of the moments and making minor changes. [Sarah Oelschig] Yeah, this was great. [Mary Meyer] Make such a difference in that. Yeah. So where can people find your book? [Sarah Oelschig] They can order it online at Amazon, Barnes and Noble, books a million. So the normal normal places, it's in paperback and ebook. And I'm working on the audio book right now. So hopefully that'll be out in a few months from now. But yeah, it's available everywhere. [Mary Meyer] All right. Anything else you'd like to share with everyone? [Sarah Oelschig] I think, you know, just you were saying appreciate the little things when you can and burnout recovery is a journey. It's not a destination. I still slip. And it's okay to slip. And you will find what works for you. It just takes time. [Mary Meyer] Life after burnout, for sure. And after all the different things we can go through that make life feel a little tougher. There is that there is past recovery. [Sarah Oelschig] There is. [Mary Meyer] Well, thank you, Sarah. I appreciate it. And I'm excited to finish reading it. So thank you. It's a wonderful, wonderful message. Thank you. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you.