Latest / Coffee Playdate Podcast with Dr. Olga Deengar / Surgical Suite to Real Estate Freedom Ep 19 | Dr. Daniel Shin, Urologist & Real Estate Investor
Transcript
- Dr. Olga Deengar: Welcome to the Coffee Playdate Podcast. I have a very special guest with me today, Dr. Daniel Shin. Welcome! Daniel Shin, MD: Hi, Olga Happy to be here. Dr. Olga Deengar: ⁓ how do you like your coffee? Daniel Shin, MD: I generally take it drip coffee with oat milk. That's my go-to. Dr. Olga Deengar: how many cups a day do you usually have? Daniel Shin, MD: It depends on how tired I am, but usually a couple to start and then another one around noon. And then if I'm trying to really get productive, another one around 3pm. So we'll call it two to four. Dr. Olga Deengar: ⁓ wow, after your 3pm coffee, are you still able to fall asleep? Daniel Shin, MD: Sometimes it's a little bit of a challenge, but some magnesium glycinate gummies can help with that also. Dr. Olga Deengar: They sure can. Awesome. We're going to start off with our first game. That's a rapid fire question game. I'm going to ask you to choose between one of two things that you like to do more, but you don't have to explain why. Just go with your gut instinct. All right. The first question is having a clinic running 20 minutes early or OR turnover under 10 minutes. Daniel Shin, MD: Clinic running 20 minutes early for sure. Dr. Olga Deengar: extremely rare. Next robotic surgery or laparoscopic surgery? Daniel Shin, MD: For me, laparoscopic surgery, although there's a story behind there. Dr. Olga Deengar: about answering a hundred DMs or dictating ten notes? Daniel Shin, MD: Mmm. That's a tough one, but probably dictating 10 notes over 100 DMs. Dr. Olga Deengar: Great. And then last question, index funds or real estate syndications? Daniel Shin, MD: estate syndications. Dr. Olga Deengar: Now we're going to move on to our second game. This is our take a sip game. Same concept, but this time we're both answering the questions and if our answers match, then we have to take a sip from our coffee cups. Here we go. The first one is ⁓ the natural selection of finches or tortoises. Daniel Shin, MD: I'm gonna say tortoises. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'm gonna say finches. I love birds. I think they're fascinating. Daniel Shin, MD: What about you? I love tortoises, they're so cute. Dr. Olga Deengar: How about a HIT workout or a long endurance run? Daniel Shin, MD: Hmm. probably hit workout for me. Dr. Olga Deengar: I would have to say the run, only because I'm training for a half marathon right now. Next one, electric car or hybrid? Daniel Shin, MD: ⁓ nice. electric car for sure. Dr. Olga Deengar: Electric car. Me too. And how about financial freedom early or building wealth indefinitely? Daniel Shin, MD: Ooh, I wish I could say both, but if I had to choose, I would say financial freedom early. Dr. Olga Deengar: I'd have to say building wealth indefinitely. We got one out of four. That's pretty good. That's true. Daniel, tell me a little bit about yourself. Daniel Shin, MD: Okay. We're very different. So I am surgeon. I'm a urologic by training. Although I most of my time in the world of real estate and entrepreneurship now. ⁓ go by online. That's sort of my social media persona. ⁓ And I started a estate a couple of years ago called Cereus Real Estate. ⁓ And that takes up the of my time in the world of real estate now. Dr. Olga Deengar: You have a lot of things that you're involved in, is amazing. Are you still practicing as a urologist? Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, I practice about 25 % still. really enjoy practicing. ⁓ I recently moved a few years ago from Los Angeles to Memphis, Tennessee. And, know, with relicensing and figuring out my next step, I ⁓ had little bit of a break from medicine. And after a couple of months, I really started to miss it. So ⁓ I practicing. still practice, but it's as a locum tenens now. Dr. Olga Deengar: And do you practice locally or as a local in other states, perhaps? Daniel Shin, MD: It's been all over the place. So, so far over the last few years as a locums, I've practiced in ⁓ Illinois, in Tennessee, and West Virginia. Dr. Olga Deengar: And how do you like going to other places? Do you get a little bit of time to kind of explore the areas as well after your shifts are done? Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, that's actually been one of the benefits of being a local attendance. You do get to travel. The downside is you're away from your family, but the upside is on the day and your duties on that day, ⁓ can explore. So I've had a good time exploring different parts ⁓ all the states that I've been in. Dr. Olga Deengar: Amazing. I wanted to ask you, as you were starting off your entrepreneurial journey, how did you have to start thinking? Like, was it in a different way than what you're used to as a physician? Did you have any mindset shifts that you had to make? Daniel Shin, MD: Absolutely. So I think that In an ideal world from the perspective of American healthcare, most physicians would just go to work, do their job, and go home, sleep, and do it all over again. And that's what most of us do. Most of us are employed now as physicians, and we have a ⁓ schedule. So I think when you're first taking steps towards entrepreneurship, you really do have to have a mindset shift where you're willing to kind of break that mold a little bit. So whether it's listening to podcasts during your drive or spending your lunch break, sort of answering emails with contractors, or even after you go home, researching about different ways of investing into real estate, I think it does take a little bit of stepping outside the traditional mold you're kind taking that step towards entrepreneurship. Dr. Olga Deengar: I think most positions would think this is kind of a risky step you're very comfortable with your w2 job and everything but what would happen if you don't take that step. Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, I think, you know, maybe it sounds cliche, but I think the risk is not taking the step, you know, that's the bigger risk. If you think about ⁓ you think about your life trajectory, because, sure, can think of it as a safe ⁓ existence, being your nine to five. And ⁓ if you're with that, if you're happy with that, if you love everything about what you are ⁓ in job, and in your fantastic, I have no problem with that at all. But I know personally that there are a lot of challenges in healthcare. I personally experienced a lot of burnout when I was full time as a in Southern California. And think risk is not taking that step because you're just ⁓ nothing is to change unless you change it yourself. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, that is actually very true. won't be able to see what else is out there and what opportunities excite you. ⁓ they're maybe fulfilling for you if you don't actually step out of your comfort zone. Very true. Daniel Shin, MD: Absolutely. Dr. Olga Deengar: You that you had some burnout initially that you were experiencing as you ⁓ practicing medicine. ⁓ you tell me a little bit more about that? Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, sure. know, burnout, think, can be surprising and also insidious because I think in the typical thought process when you're thinking about burnout, you're thinking about someone who's maybe 10, 20 years into their career and the demands of the job have just become sort of overwhelming and they're burnt out and they're thinking about maybe changing their career or leaving medicine or something like that. But I know personally from my own experience and also from speaking with hundreds and if not thousands of physicians at this point over the years that burnout can happen anytime. I know a lot of trainees who would meet the criteria for burnout. I know med students who would meet the criteria for burnout. And certainly I started experiencing it within ⁓ years ⁓ being ⁓ attending physician. So I think were a lot of things going on. ⁓ As I said, I was full-time in medicine. I lived an hour away from my hospital in Southern California traffic so I would spend two plus hours a day in traffic ⁓ as we all know being a physician these days is very demanding whether you're employed or whether you're in private practice there are tremendous amount of demands on you from your patients from your administration and know the the pressure can definitely wear on you and After a while, I realized that I wasn't showing up as my best self at work anymore because I was feeling this burnout. Dr. Olga Deengar: Absolutely. think that's one of the gifts that we have is when we step away from medicine and come back into it as a new person, almost, have this new ⁓ of energy and you can actually show up and be more present for your patients as well. Daniel Shin, MD: I think that's absolutely true. know, when you're in the midst of burnout, think the priority ⁓ to be to do everything you can to leave medicine completely, at least at when I was in the worst of my burnout, that was sort of my priority. I was like, wow, I really have to accelerate my investing. I have to become financially free as soon as possible. So if I need to, I can just kind of leave medicine. But I know now ⁓ that wasn't it. You know, I didn't like all of the ancillary annoying stuff that was part of my, part of my job, ⁓ in Southern California. And now that I'm part-time as a locum 10s, I really love practicing medicine. actually really enjoy interacting with patients. love fixing their problems, doing surgery. And, you know, I, I think it's a, it's a luxury to practice medicine part-time. And when you can buy yourself the sort of. Security and financial freedom that comes with other investments and you can choose to go back to medicine You will appreciate it even more. That's been my experience at least Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, absolutely. And let's talk a little bit more about your other Are any challenges that you faced along the way there? And ⁓ can tell us about a time when you overcame a challenge? Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, I would say something that's been on my mind recently know, I'm mostly, I have a real estate portfolio that I manage that we built. ⁓ say we, my wife and I built. And we mainly that while I was still ⁓ at Kaiser SoCal. And over the last few years, I've really been building more with Cereus Real Estate, which is a, real estate fund that I started to allow physicians, high income professionals to invest into high quality passive income deals, real estate syndications and the like. And I the main problem that you deal with as an entrepreneur is that there is no end ⁓ to work. ⁓ know, a way, sometimes I would miss ⁓ the, ⁓ know, hours of being an employed physician, because although it was a lot of, you know, 60 hours a week, I had a discrete sort of boundary to my day. It would start when I would get into clinic. I think we, when did we start? We started at 7 a.m., you know, so pretty early. And then the clinic day would start, end at five. And then, you know, there was an hour or so of in basket work and then I would go home. But then when I would go home, I could kind of disengage a little bit. I could try to see my kids and just relax until the next day. But, you know, what I've learned is that as an entrepreneur, when you're trying to build a business, you could literally be working on it every single moment to the detriment of your family, to the detriment of your weekend, to the detriment of your health. And there's still more to do, you know, it's just endless. So that's one challenge that I've been dealing with. And I was talking with my own coach recently, ⁓ we were thinking about this and how that anxiety filled feeling that you have as an entrepreneur at 10pm. Dr. Olga Deengar: Okay. Daniel Shin, MD: ⁓ when you probably should be resting, but you're thinking about work or doing work. A lot of that, I think from the fear of failure, you know, and we're kind of picking that apart and working on that. So that's been, I think the way that I've been getting over it, ⁓ just talking about it with my coach ⁓ kind of working on it, trying to get to the deeper meaning of why I feel that ⁓ to be working at midnight on a Tuesday. Dr. Olga Deengar: But what is one ⁓ way to navigate that? What have you found Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, I think the having a third party to talk about it with has been incredibly useful. So I've had a coach now for a couple of years and he's not necessarily ⁓ CEO coach or anything like that, which you would consider an ⁓ executive But what has been really helpful in talking to him ⁓ is figuring out the deeper. sort of motivations and meanings behind the things that I encounter and the challenges that I encounter on a repeating basis. We've a few repeating so to speak, that are continual challenges. kind of uncovering that and understanding that has been really instrumental in helping to overcome them. So I would that's ⁓ probably the main that I deal with those ⁓ ongoing challenges. Dr. Olga Deengar: So really coming back and realigning with your purpose, figuring out why you truly want to do what you're doing. Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, absolutely. Dr. Olga Deengar: And i wanted to know what advice would you give someone who is starting out in a similar space as you. Daniel Shin, MD: there's only so much can do, when you're a student ⁓ or in residency And ⁓ I think that the, ⁓ the training system to become say a physician is so all encompassing that ⁓ I think. expecting that you're going to make meaningful strides financially towards something like financial freedom and things like that is, is asking too much, like just thinking back to when I was in residency training, you know, technically we're capped at 80 hours now. but ⁓ we all know that maybe it's more than 80, There's just very little time you have to yourself. And I think focusing on your health and trying to stay as balanced as possible and staying in shape and eating well. So I actually feel for a lot of the medical students I speak to who are already trying to figure out how to get to financial freedom, I think the best thing to do is to educate yourself. You're an educational part of your life ⁓ and learning the basic vocabulary of investing, things compound interest, things like equity, ⁓ all of these terms. learning that vocabulary as a trainee or as a student will put you super far ahead of the curve just ⁓ it is. But trying to make meaningful strides and starting a rental business as a trainee, ⁓ I caution people against that, honestly. ⁓ When you are an attending and when you have reliable, significant paycheck an attending physician, ⁓ and you have the mental bandwidth to put towards these things. I think that's really the time for that. I feel for the people who are so desperate to get to financial freedom at, you know, early on in training process, because I think it's really Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, it definitely is. feel like it's important to remember to tailor your goals to the season of your life, where you are now. You to have more capital, have to have knowledge and the learning pathway is very So it's important to start learning the vocabulary, like you said. Daniel Shin, MD: 100%. Dr. Olga Deengar: Speaking of learning, do you have ⁓ one book recommendation for listeners today? Daniel Shin, MD: Yeah, you know, I'll say that I recently picked up the book, The Wealthy Gardener, Lessons of Prosperity Between Father and Son by John Soforic and I'm really enjoying it. I really had to just give one recommendation, probably Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. ⁓ It's such a cliche, I would say on it comes up so often on entrepreneurship podcasts and The thing is that it's just sort of a mindset shifting book for a lot of people and it was for me. So that would be a good recommendation as well. Dr. Olga Deengar: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Daniel, for joining us today. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast and I hope to have you on a future episode. Daniel Shin, MD: Thanks so much, Olga, it's been fun.