Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1248 - Understanding Furries: Identity, Mental Health & How to Respond as a Parent

Transcript

#1248 - Understanding Furries: Identity, Mental Health & How to Respond as a Parent · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: The concept of furries.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: It's been around for a while now, you've likely heard
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: of furries. Today on the podcast, we look at what
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: this is all about and whether we should be worried.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Welcome to a Happy Families podcast today, Real parenting solutions
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: for some really big parenting problems. This is Australia's most
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson and
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Hun Furry fandom gaining visibility and youth culture.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: There's more and more noise about it.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: We need to understand what it means, especially from mental
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: health perspective. In the past few days, this has been
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: blowing up in the media. I was on the Today
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Show yesterday talking about it. This was the reaction of
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Lucy Zelich on two GB.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: So withfurry is somebody that identifies as an animal, right
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: as a dog, a cat, you name it, right, And
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: this is something that was brought to my attention. Actually,
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: I was phoned by parent this afternoon to tell me
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: that this is going on in their particular area. And
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: I was also made aware of it the other day
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: that this is occurring at a Catholic school in the
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Hills district where they do have a furry. The parent
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: that spoke to me today said that at their school
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: that they've been made aware of this it is a dog,
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: and that they have been told the students have been
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: instructed that when this child barks like a dog, that
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: they are just they are to act as though this
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: is completely normal. It is a disgrace and it's an
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: absolute and utter embarrassment that we as a Western society
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: have allowed things like this to happen, that we are
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: encouraging this behavior. At what point are we going to
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: realize that we've started to make grave mistakes in the
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: way that we are raising our next generation. You've got
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: parenting websites that are saying adopt the art of parenting
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: without saying no, alternative ways of saying no to a child.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Don't give your child.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Trauma and say no to them.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: How about you give the kid a smack and teach
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: them some respect and to actually grow up as a responsible,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: functioning adult that's daring to contribute to society and not
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: put on a damn collar and act like a dog
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: in a classroom.
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: There's some fighting words there.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: There's a lot going on.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So the first thing we need to emphasize is that
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: smacking is not going to solve this problem. Lucy might
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: have some big opinions around this, and I want to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: support several of them, but smacking your children is not
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: going to be helpful. And the other thing that I
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: quickly want to jump in with, even though I know
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: that you're bursing to jump in, is Garble Marte and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: his everything that happens in our life as a result
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: of childhood trauma. I don't think that that's helpful in
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: this conversation either. Outside of that, though, go for it,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: missus Happy Families. As a non psyche person, what are
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: your thoughts?
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: I think Lucy's spot on when she says that as
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: a society, we're doing our children a grave injustice when
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: we let this become normal. Our children are losing their
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: identity just about every facet. There is no clear cut anymore,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: There is no given, there is no just I can't
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: imagine trying to navigate this without the maturity and life
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: experience as a five year old, as a seven year old,
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: as a ten year old, as a fourteen year old,
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: and the children in the room are wanting us to
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: be the adults.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: So a couple of things that are important here we're
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: going to talk about identity development shortly. This is very
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: much an identity issue, but it's an identity issue because
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: of this thing that they call the affirmation model. So
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: in psychology across much of the Western world right now,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: especially in Australia, when somebody identifies as anything at all,
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: the psychological focus is on affirmation rather than what psychology
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: once did, which was to ask questions and help a
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: person to do the inner work to figure out who
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: they are, what they value, on what's really going on.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: I have all the compassion in the world for any
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: family who is going through this, For parents who are
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: going through this, this is going to be a really
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: big challenge. For children who are going through it, it's
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: even bigger. But I'm also a little bit frustrated because
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I don't believe that it's necessary that families go through this.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And that's what I want.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: To talk about as we discuss what it is to
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: be a furry and how this works.
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: So how popular is this? I mean, we're seeing this
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: more and more. I'm seeing it even when we're out
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: on the streets.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: The visibility is blowing up, right, it really is.
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: But what is the data actually telling us?
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: So we don't have very much data.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Understandably, it's really hard to collect data in this particular arena.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: The average age apparently is about twenty eight. Okay, so
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: while there are lots of kids who are starting to say, yeah, identify,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: identify as a wall for a dog or a pussy
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: cat or whatever it is, the average age of a
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: quote unquote furry is twenty eight. So we are dealing
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: with mentally unstable adults primarily, although there's a trickle down
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: and it's primarily pushed by social media. What else do
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: we know about this? We know that there is a
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: higher proportion of young people who have gender identity issues
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: that also cross into furry territory. Okay, there's a website
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: that's out there. It's called First Science. Heaps of info there.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know how credible this website is, primarily because
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: the focus is on affirmation and on reducing stigma. So
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to me, that doesn't feel like it's going to be
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: balanced and neutral information to support our children's interests and
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: ensure they're well being. Fundamentally, though, I'm just concerned about
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: what's going on in the heads of kids and adults
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: who are identifying this way.
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: So what you're suggesting is that what we're dealing with
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: here is really a mental health issue.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I think it is.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there will be a lot of people who don't
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: like me for saying this, but fundamentally this is let's
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: have look at the stats. There was a twenty eighteen
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: study done. It's really hard again, like I said, to
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: get good, credible, somewhat neutral information around this, but there
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: was a University of like Caado study twenty eighteen. There
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: were something like twelve hundred and forty nine twelve hundred
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: and fifty furries from fifty seven countries, and what they
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: found was this, and this to me is alarming. Thirty
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: eight and a half percent of furries have reported an
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: attempt on their own lives. Twenty three and a half
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: have made multiple attempts on this nearly half, we're talking
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: about forty six forty seven percent scored in the clinical
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: range for anxiety, forty one percent with depression. So these
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: are obviously mental health challenges at rates that vastly exceed.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: The normal general population.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: In terms of what we see on average with our
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: typical population, there are definitely mental health challenges going on here.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: I think that this comes down a little bit of parenting,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: well not a little bit, probably quite a lot of
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: parenting as well, But fundamentally mental health, identity issues and
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: parenting I think are at the core of it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: So I guess a question to explore would be, is
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: the community, the furry community, actually attracting those who are
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: already struggling or is the community actually contributing to the issue.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: And I would say yes to both. I would say
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: it's both column A and column B. When you've got
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: somebody who's struggling with all of these mental health challenges,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: they're not doing the inner work. They're not really working
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: through the process that's required to understand who they are
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: and why they are struggling with either mental health issues
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: or trauma. I mean, let's pull on the Garble Marte
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: thing for just a second and say that there has
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: been some childhood trauma for some of these kids. They
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: adopt these animal alter egos. They're called personas, like as
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: opposed to a persona. It's a first sona very clever
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: play on words. Influences their identity. They create these alternative identities,
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: so they think that they really do need to go
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: to the toilet in kitty litter. They really do believe
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: that they can respond to people's questions with purring or
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: growling or barking, and they get all this affirmation, which
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: just reinforces the identity that they've got. And it's happening
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: quite often at this crucial time of identity development, during adolescence,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: where they're supposed to be developing a healthy self concept,
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: and so you get this double edge sword, right because
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: when they step into furry land and they get all
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: this affirmation because so many people are afraid that the
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: kids are going to be hurt if we don't affirm them,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: they get this temporary escape and it feels really good,
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: and then they also avoid any real world challenges. So
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: avoidance reinforces the anxiety and makes things worse. Fundamentally, this
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: identity issue and the mental health challenges that are associated
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: with it, to me again seem to.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Be at the core of it.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to talk about whether
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: or not it's a safety issue, and what we can
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: do is parents, if we're worried about our kids heading
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: in this direction. Okay, really complicated topic today, talking about
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: whether or not it's okay to affirm your children in
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: their furriness.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: If that's where they've decided to go.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: They want to wear a tail, they want to wear
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: a mask, they want to purr, they want to use
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: kitty litter or that kind of thing, Kylie.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Something that we.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Need to sort of wave the flo around here is
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the risk of harm to kids who and young adults
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: who ascribe to a furry identity. So when I was
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: doing the data search around this, research shows that predators
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: specifically seem to know who's vulnerable, and they particularly go
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: after vulnerable young furries. They know that there's going to
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: be some mental health challenges, that they're going to be
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: a little bit weaker, a little bit more likely to
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: accept somebody who's grooming them and accepting them and affirming
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: them and making them feel good about themselves. So there
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: are some concerning data. Again I'm questioning how good the
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: data is, but what data is there certainly indicates that
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: they're going to have some challenges there. We also know
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: they're much more likely to expose to explicit content online.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: They're seeking out a whole lot of stuff, and like
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I said, a lot of this is tied up with
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: gender identity stuff as well, So they're much more likely
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: to be exposed to pornography and very disturbing content around that.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: And unfortunately, in a study that I found in the
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Archives of Sexual Behavior, a higher percentage of sexual motivation
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: among adult furies. So unfortunately, there seems to be a
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: whole lot of sexual misconduct that hobs around these gender identity,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: sexual identity mental health challenge situations. When it comes to
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: young people who identify as something other than human.
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: I find this really curious because when I think about
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: anxieties and the experience is that we have when we're
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: feeling anxiety, the last thing we want to be is
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: the main focus in the room.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Right, and so when you dress up like this, I'll
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: make those noises that actually.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: It amplifies it. Right, all eyes are on you for
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: all the wrong reasons.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: What's really going on here is roleplay, so I don't
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: have to be me. Therefore, I'm not being judged for
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: who I am. It's my alter ego. It's my first
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: sona that's being judged. I've spoken to a lot of
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: people who work, maybe in an education space, dealing with
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: neurodevelopmentally challenged kids, autistic kids specifically, and they'll often say
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: that drama is one of the best places for these
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: kids to be because they get to stop being the
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: autistic kid in the class and they get to be
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: the character in the play. And I've spoken with a
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: couple of autistic people who have told me that one
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: of their favorite subjects is drama because they get to
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: let go of all the anxiety associated with me being
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: me and they get to put on that alter ego.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: So I think that goes some way to explaining what's
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: going on here. Ultimately, though, when it comes to our children,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: their safety, the mental health, their identity development. What I
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: want to share is six very clear parenting solutions that
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: can help in this context. So I'll run through them.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: If I say anything that prompts something for you, just
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: hit me up with it, and let's see if we
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: can be effective in helping parents who are worried about
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: these things. The first thing is that this is going
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: to sound really harsh, but I think we need to
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: set absolute boundaries. Really, this is a red line moment.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: We set this boundary and we say, in our family,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: none of them animals. We are all humans. So we're
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: not going to have personas, we're not going to have
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: first suits, we're not going to have conversations about being
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: a furry. To me, this is a non negotiable now
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: that flies in the face of what the Australians Psychological
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Society and many other psychological societies around the.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: World would tell you to do.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: They would tell you to be affirming because by not
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: affirming you could place your child in grave danger. But
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: if we can do it lovingly, I'm not talking about
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: being punitive and aggressive and saying that's it we're not doing,
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: but rather saying, kid, oh, I know this is really
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: hard for you, but we are going to call you
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: by your name and we are going to support you
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: to be a healthy, functioning human because that's.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: What you are.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: That's going to be far more effective in the long term.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: We've just got to do it compassionately.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: I think back to our tricky question a couple of
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: weeks ago with a parent who was concerned about the
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: sexy fun girl photos that her daughter was posting. Great
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: in relation to possible injury to future employments. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 12:54
  Speaker 4: And I'm sitting here as a parent thinking how does
• 12:58
  Speaker 4: this impact my child when they finally come out of
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: this phase, they'll be unemployable and decide that maybe I'm
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: not a furry anymore. Maybe I'm not a dog. Maybe
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: I'm actually a person who's got feelings and thoughts and
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: you know, hopes and dreams and aspirations.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: The second thing that I want to emphasize is the
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: importance of digital monitoring. So we've talked about online safety issues.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: That plays a really big role there, but the online
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: community will often affirm and amplify the challenges that your
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: child is struggling with. So if you've got a child
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: who's indicating that they have a preference for stepping into
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: furry land and they want to adopt a persona, they're
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: going to get so much support from online communities. Whether
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: it's on discord or whether it's on YouTube or whatever
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: platform they're using, they will get so much support there. Therefore,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: as parents, we need to be involved in blocking furry content.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I think we want to block furry forums have I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: not big on parental controls, but sometimes our children are
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: vulnerable and they need to be protected in including from themselves.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: So I would say that that would be my second thing.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: The online world.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: The online community is an amplifier and a magnifier of this,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and it is not in our children's best interest to
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: be playing there.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: I think back to my childhood. I don't have a
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: single incident where one of my friends thought they were
• 14:19
  Speaker 4: a cat or adult.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Didn't exist in the nineties or nineties any of that.
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: And I have to believe that social media plays a
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: huge part.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and unquestionably does. And it plays a huge part
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: in all the gender identity stuff and everything that's associated
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: with this. So for children to develop an identity and
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: do so in a healthy way, minimizing their access to
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: screens is going to make a really big difference. Third,
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: redirect their interests. I want to see parents channeling our children,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: their children's creativity and interest towards healthy outlets like traditional
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: art and sport and conventional social activities. Get off the internet,
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: step away from anime, and get under the real world,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: face to face with people who also do not think
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: that they are animal. Right, go and become part of
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: a team somewhere doing something, and it'll make a difference.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: My fourth one got to build real world connections.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: I think this is this is imperative right.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Relationship is the heart of well being, and typically if
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: you've got a child who's struggling with anxiety, struggling with depression,
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: my bed is that they are involved in social circles,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: whether relational needs are not being supported. Therefore they are
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: going online. They're getting all the affirmation and support from
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: these online communities and that's where they want to be,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: and they start to You become the average of the
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: five people you spend the most time with. Right, So,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: we want our children to spend time in healthy, face
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: to face, analogue social opportunities rather than online communities.
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: And for our anxious children, we need to recognize they
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: are going to need our support in that process, like
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: hold my hand kind of support.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Not saying this is going to be easy.
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: It's not going to be as easy as saying we've
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: organized playdate, you go and play. These kids are going
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: to need your health integrating into their social circles more
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: times than not.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Two more points professional support, like if your child is
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: already involved in this, if your child is heading down
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: this path, you want to seek professional guidance immediately. But
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: you don't want to step into an affirmation situation. So
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: if you've got a psychologist who's saying, well, I'm just
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: going to affirm them in their furryness, find another psychologist.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: This is not the person for you. You want a
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: psychologist who is going to say, we need to ask
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: some deep and probing questions here, and we need to
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: work on the gender issues, the identity issues, their screen usage,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: their anxiety, their depression, their physical health, the sleep that
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: they're getting, the people and their relationship building skills. Those
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: are the things that are going to help your child
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: to thrive, not an affirmation of furry status. And the
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: last one is as parents, we've got and I said
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: this at the outset, I want to reemphasize it now
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: compassionate framing. Our job as parents is to focus on
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: protecting our kids, not punishing our kids. So our line,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: our conversation points should be something like this. I love you.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: I love you no matter what. I love you no
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: matter how you identify, no matter what you choose.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But I also love you too much to let you
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: risk your mental health by continuing down a pathway where
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: you start to think that you are not a human.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Because you are. You are a loved and needed and
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: valued and worthy human and part of our family. And
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: we are going to affirm that because that's who you are.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: You're our son, you're our daughter. You're the one that
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: we will weep with as you work through these hard things.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: That is going to be really, really hard, And I
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: know there will be some people who will say that
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: it could be dangerous for their kids. I'm so sorry,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: but it's already dangerous. If your child is playing in
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: Furreyville right now and has adopted a Ferstsna, their anxiety
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: and their depression levels are almost certainly through the roof,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and the risk of them trying to take their lives
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: is already vastly higher than it would be if they
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: were developing like a typical young person. So I just
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: don't buy the line that you're endangering their life by
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: treating them like a person rather than a furry.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You need to wrap this up.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Final words, final action steps, final way to proceed. If
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you're worried about this Number one, I just want to
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: make it really clear. This is not harmless fandom. Kids
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: who are playing in this area are usually dealing with
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of other issues, and it can be dangerous.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: The tragedy of this.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: I really hate this because when a little kid wants
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: to dress up like Tigger or where a put a
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: tail on, a run around the house like we probably
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: did when we were kids once upon a time, that
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: was harmless fun, and now kids can't do that because
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: parents are paranoid because what if this turns into something
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: more than what it already is.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: It's just so sad.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: As parents, our job is protection. If we don't guide
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: our children's development, the online communities will, and.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: They do it so well.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: They groom brilliantly. And lastly, truly compassionate parenting means preventing harm,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: not responding to harm, but preventing harm by drawing that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: line in the sand. Any last words, if I have a.
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: Child who wants to at me, I want to tell
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: them how much I miss hearing their voice. And I
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: want to understand and know what it is that they're
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: feeling and how they feel about the world around them.
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: While ever they're barking at me, I can't. I can't
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: even begin to comprehend or understand them.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, Kylie, let's wrap this up. We will link to
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the University of Bycato study. It's actually quite a balanced
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: study and maybe even a little bit too pro for
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: my liking based on my bias. Nevertheless, we'll link to
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: that in the show notes. The Happy Families podcast is
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: If you'd like more information and more resources to
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Make your family happier, you'll find it at happy families
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: dot com, dot a