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Beyond the Diagnosis: Autism Parenting, Inchstones, and the Journey to Adulthood with Gena Mann · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Inch Stones podcast. I recorded with Jenna Mann early. It was early winter and we had some technical difficulties, as one does when they start a podcast. And it probably was for the best because it gave us a chance now to reconnect and touch base after a few months, but also to get really focused and very conscious about what we wanted to discuss. Because Jenna has been more not only a mentor to me as an autism parent, but someone who I value in terms of being self reflective of her journey. As a parent with two boys with autism, one with higher needs than the other. It's really just a joy for me to connect with her always because I know that her heart lies so closely to mine when it comes to her intent and her intuition for her children. Jenna, thank you so much for being here today and thank you for having me back. Yeah. Yes. It's just a catch up. It's a live catch up for everyone to hear. I get a lot of questions about early intervention and what do I do when diagnoses first hits through the grapevine, social media, even just the community. And what I find that I naturally always did was I would look to you and to others about the phase that you were in and want to say, well, what did you know now? What would you remember from this time that now is because your boys are older and adults in college and living in, in a, in a separate space. I now sitting with like late childhood children like Mac and Millie, would love to hear your reflection from those years, like post early intervention, post diagnoses, after the train was moving. And in some ways things are a little easier because I'm not a new autism mom anymore. But I'm also not where you are and I haven't lived those next phases. So I'd love to just hear your reflections upon those late childhood years with Jasper and Felix.
• 1:52
  Speaker B: So, yeah, I think the early years are such a frenzy of information gathering and trying different things and seeing what works and getting them set up in their schools and stuff. And then there is a bit of a coasting period in those like middle school, high school years. And we. You talked about earlier how nothing was ever obviously smooth for any length of time, but there were periods for each of them and they were always different. I always had like, one was doing great, school was right, therapies were right, medicine medications were right, and the other one was having a complete fall off. And so I was fortunate, I think, that at least I was able to really focus my energies on one at a time. But those years when you have that sort of scaffolding around you of, you know, the right. You found the right school placements, you have sort of your team in place, you know, even if there are small shifts in personnel or whatever.
• 2:51
  Speaker A: Right.
• 2:52
  Speaker B: You have the. You've found the therapies that are working, the activities that are working. I found, especially with boys, I found puberty to be really tough with both of them for different reasons. And I think we did a lot of medication shifts in those years, and my boys both responded very differently to medications. One has sort of a faster metabolism, so would go through things quickly. And one needed, like, you know, horse tranquilizer doses of anything to see any effect. And so I did a lot with medications in those years, which were really hard and really tough stages to go through, because you had to sort of give things weeks to see how it would play out. And I would be calling the psychiatrist, like, this is a disaster. He's asleep. I remember sending my psychiatrist videos of one of my kids, like, asleep on the living room floor. I was like, I think this one is making him drowsy. What do you think?
• 3:48
  Speaker A: Gosh, I poke him awake.
• 3:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. And it was always sort of a. Well, we have to wait and see. This one takes this amount of time to get into their system. So those things were always hard for me, but it really felt good having guardrails in place. You know, school is great and. And therapies are great, whether your school is covering them or you've figured out how to have insurance cover them or whatever. The really scary period starts when they're, like, aging out of the system. Oh, my older son, you know, around 18, 19, 20, you're starting to worry, like, what does adulthood look like? And what am I gonna do? You know, this. This is not going away. They call it falling off a cliff. When your kid ages out of, like, your school district and you're sort of, you know, you need to learn a whole new system of what you're entitled to from your state, what sort of programming there is. It's like you've finally figured out school and all of the people that go with it, and then you have to start all over again, really. When your kid is turning 21, 22.
• 4:54
  Speaker A: That anticipatory anxiety, and it's terrifying anxiety, right? Like, that's anticipatory anxiety is probably, like, going to be on my tombstone, like, what. What killed me? Because, can I say? Cause I. Well, I do think that in some ways it's really good to have a healthy reverence for planning And a healthy, you know, respect for the planning process. And I think that the early years, for better or for worse, because of early intervention and, like, getting these kids into the right therapies and they have these jobs. Right. Like, we have the CEO of a diverse child. And it's like, we think that the anticipation is going to help. But I think what you're saying, even just from the medication example, you use that like. Like anything we have to give, like these two to three weeks or like, there has to be these guardrails on. Like, we're going to try something. We know that there's a massive possibility that this is not going to work. And we need to, like, buffer our reactions.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: Expectations. Yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker A: To be. To be that whatever happens, we can pivot. And I think that does become more apparent the longer that you parent.
• 5:59
  Speaker B: The longer they are in it. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I sort of threw myself into figuring out the next steps for each of my boys in the same way that I did when they were first diagnosed and I was finding speech therapists and OTs and whatever. It's like, I was like, okay, now we need to address the next phase of their life being forever, you know, so for my older son, that was finding residential placements and a day program and the right agency to work with and figuring out what I was entitled to from the state of Connecticut. I live in Connecticut. It's different state to state. And nobody. Nobody openly shares what you need to register for, you know, ask for, figure out. The states do not have. Even the best states do not. Do not have enough resources to care for all of these kids. So nobody's out there saying, yeah, you're entitled to this money and these grants and this. You have to dig to find that information. And it's. It feels so, like you feel so betrayed almost, that nobody is coming to share and figure that, you know, figure.
• 7:16
  Speaker A: Out what you need to do this whole experience.
• 7:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:19
  Speaker A: Because even in. I do feel in a lot of ways that this is like a little bit of, like, the coasting phase for me. Don't get me wrong. Like, I'm. I told you before, we press record, I'm really sitting in confusion with Mac as he grows and is more physical and this little boy strength is coming out in him and the behaviors around them. And at the same time, I'm so happy where they're at school. I'm so happy. Holistic approach and all these things. So I. The majority of my feelings are like, we're cruising. But that word betrayal from a system Standpoint.
• 7:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker A: Hits like when you just said that, I'm like, holy smoke, full stop. Why is that? Why do we feel betrayed?
• 8:01
  Speaker B: I think that once you're in a school and a district that you love and they. And you believe that they care about what's best for your kid, or even a private school, that you believe they care what's going to happen to your kid, then when you get into the government, frankly, is like, sort of responsible for taking care of your kid. You just have no. There's no people attached to it. You know, there's no there. They become more of, like a number in the system. And these states can really only afford to take care of so much, right? So I had to do so much research and digging and asking and listening to figure out these things, and I couldn't believe, wow, what if I hadn't, you know, what if I hadn't looked so hard, I wouldn't know any of this. So, you know, I'm happy. I'm happy whenever somebody comes to me and asks and I say, you need to do this, this, and this, and talk to your school and get, you know, get in DDS and get a case manager and all those things, because everybody has to worry about what's gonna happen to their kid after high school. So my, you know, it was. And it was a very different experience for my other son, who went to a. Went to a great private school and is now in college. But even the process of finding the right college for him, there are. I'm pleased to say there are lots of different options for schools in America that have different sorts of different levels of support for neurodivergent kids. It's amazing. There are. He is at a college in Vermont called Landmark, which is solely for kids with learning differences. So everybody there has something, and it's amazing. And he's really thriving, and he's gonna be a senior.
• 9:47
  Speaker A: And it's Vermont in the fall.
• 9:48
  Speaker B: Yes. It's so cool. It's amazing. There are also lots of colleges that have sort of scaffolded programs within that help kids with different kinds of learning disabilities, neurodivergent, autism, whatever. So that was a whole process, you know, getting to the. Getting answers on those and going to visit and sort of knowing the right questions to ask. And, you know, it's all about really knowing who your kid is and trusting that you can see what's going to be the right environment for them going forward, just as you've found the right environment for them until this point. But it's a, it was another whole. It was like starting all over again for both of them.
• 10:26
  Speaker A: I've had a lot of, like, momentary what feels like deja vu of, like, this guidebook that I feel like I'm building for myself but also want to be handed at the same time. I feel like it's like I've got these files, you know, on Millie and Mac and like the three hole punch, and it's like it's growing and growing and, and I have this look back and I think, okay, I did notice that I had no idea that this was going to be consistent. Six, seven years later. How do I navigate that and trust that the support that I'm looking for matches up to what I have felt all along? And I think that the most common phrase of you've met one kid with autism, you've met one kid with autism is so hard to sit in because you want your child to be given something that, okay, that worked for.
• 11:12
  Speaker B: Right.
• 11:12
  Speaker A: So, and I believe in that mother and I believe in how she is. And there is this, like, push, this, like, polarity almost of like, trusting what your motherhood knowledge is of what your kid needs, the next phase. And also be like you, like you said, staying curious to what even is possible, because that's a whole nother. I almost wanted to rename the podcast like Stay Curious because you can stay curious. I don't ever think that you'll land in a position where the right choice does not evolve. I do believe if you stay curious enough.
• 11:44
  Speaker B: And I also, I also think there's probably more than one right choice for people.
• 11:49
  Speaker A: Right.
• 11:49
  Speaker B: Like, it's not, you know, there's, it's not unilateral. We have to do this, and that's going to be right for my kid. I think you have to think about what works for your entire family. And yeah.
• 12:02
  Speaker A: Do you feel like that part of motherhood and parenting and, you know, like me, it's, it became your, your job. You're a mother to four. But, but for Felix and Jasper, this was the, the culminate or the, the beginning and the end of, like, the bookends of, like, what's made Jenna. Jenna.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: Oh, a thousand percent.
• 12:23
  Speaker A: How has it defined your motherhood? Because I, I, I'm just trying to absorb more and more about this feeling that, like, motherhood does come to define us, whoever our children are. And then the uniqueness of this journey is, like, almost encased in an extra, like, you know, thick, thick wrap of insulation or something.
• 12:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you similarly have a Typical child and two with needs. And it's such a fascinating experience parenting each of my kids. They have, they need such different, such different things from me and from my husband. So for Jasper, I feel like I sort of, I've, like, I hit the pinnacle of, like, I spent from the ages of, you know, 18, 21 getting him sort of set up for his adult life. And he now lives in a small group home with two other young men whose families I'm close with. It's staffed by wonderful people. He's in a day program where he's productive and happy and busy. I am in touch with everyone on a daily basis. So I have oversight, yet I feel like they're doing what they need to do. He has a full and productive and happy life and lives 15 minutes from me. And I don't have to, I don't have the daily knot in my stomach and anxiety of a, I have to care for this person 24, seven, and I'm scared that he's, you know, gonna walk into the middle of the street and B, what is the rest of his life gonna look like while I'm here? And then when I'm not here? So I have like a huge, I breathe a huge sigh of relief with where he is now, and I'm endlessly grateful to the, you know, people that care for him. And I'm so grateful that he's nearby. And knock on wood, he is great. And it's awesome. Felix is a senior in college, and I'm sort of trying to figure out what his, what his future is going to look like in a totally different way. He can help with that process, and he has interests and skills and input. And input and will have a job. But, like, he needs a fair amount of help getting there. He's not, he can't do this on his own. So that's sort of my project for this year, for his senior year. And then I just dropped my daughter off at college, so I had like, the total, you know, a totally different experience. She was valedictorian for high school class. I had the dream, you know, end of high school. Pride of a mom watching a kid who's really succeeded. And she's off at her dream school. And, you know, we just did that. And then I have a sixth grader.
• 15:09
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 15:10
  Speaker B: Who's typical and fabulous and amazing and I'm like entering sixth grade, you know, tweenhood all over. I mean, it's just, it's insane how.
• 15:19
  Speaker A: Have you emotionally processed? Because I, I, I, I sit with such Reverence to your life experience and being able to absorb it as a friend. How. How have you emotionally processed. What were the best. What were the best things that you leaned into just as Jenna as the mother to really help you sit in the differences of all this and really emotionally process this. What did those emotional processing choices look like for you?
• 15:43
  Speaker B: I mean, it got to, you know, listen, there is no. There are no steps you make as a parent of a child with needs that you don't feel like, am I making the right decision? So there is. I can sit here all day and talk about how wonderful Jasper is doing and he really is. Do I feel guilt sometimes? All the time. Once a day, 10 times a day? 1,000%.
• 16:09
  Speaker A: I was talking to someone else that went, no one goes into this going, you know what? I'm crushing this. Yeah, I have never woke up. And like, God, I killed it today. Like, I freaking killed it. Like, I am.
• 16:20
  Speaker B: You know what?
• 16:20
  Speaker A: There's no other autism mom that is doing this better than me.
• 16:23
  Speaker B: I wake up occasionally feeling that way. I don't know if you saw. I posted a few weeks ago. I. I take my kids the dentist every year.
• 16:30
  Speaker A: I love that one.
• 16:31
  Speaker B: Yes, there is. For some reason, that outing. I love that from such insanity when they were all little and I needed so much help making it happen that now when I take all four of them and I see them all there.
• 16:44
  Speaker A: I'm like, okay, I would. I would be that crush this. You know, I like crushless. There's no gift.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: Maybe once a year when I go to the dentist. Yeah, but there are the, the feelings I have about where my kids are now and, and the ability to say, you know what, he's living somewhere else and this one's in college and I'm gonna help him figure out were I deserve to have a little bit of peace in my life. You know, it has. Listen, it has the double benefit of I really think he's in the right place. And I think a 23 year old young man that can have as much autonomy and independence as possible is really what's right for him. But I also feel like I deserve to, like, have a typical experience with one little girl at home who I can like take out for Starbucks. And that's all. That's the only person I have to worry about, you know, so. And it took a long time to get there. I think in the early, you know, when he first moved out, I felt bad anytime I wasn't stressed out because I felt like my norm had been.
• 17:50
  Speaker A: So has been Stressed out by that.
• 17:53
  Speaker B: Yes. My whole parenting journey has been defined by how much I can handle and how much I can endure. And when he first left and I was with two typical daughters at home, I was like, I could do this in my sleep. I can't believe people with, like, two typical kids ever complain about anything. But then I got to deserve this.
• 18:16
  Speaker A: Yes. And.
• 18:17
  Speaker B: And I think that's hard for moms to feel. You know, you feel, like, very.
• 18:22
  Speaker A: That. That feeling of. That feeling of sitting in the typicalness of. What's the. What's the noun of to deserve? I mean, I like. Yeah. Like, literally deserving that peace.
• 18:32
  Speaker B: I mean, you must feel it when you're out with your older daughter. Well, traveling with.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: Like, if someone said to me, you need to get to Hong Kong by tomorrow afternoon with Morgan and. And make a reservation at some sort of place, we're there an hour early. I think more typical families, the stress would rise so high. That's not stressful for me at all.
• 18:52
  Speaker B: No, exactly.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: There's. There's. There's literally zero stress. So whenever there's anything I. Even this. This summer, I had to take my oldest to a basketball tournament, and I had a funeral to attend midweek. And there was a lot of logistics of me having to get from a. Not my hometown city to a different city than back Is so happily and taken care of.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 19:09
  Speaker A: Her independence is growing. The other two are in school. You know, their dad has. Has that midweek covered. We're fine like this. So fine. I don't even need to process the stress of a plane.
• 19:22
  Speaker B: No.
• 19:22
  Speaker A: So I think that those are the things that I. I'm so glad that I have retained and learned through this.
• 19:27
  Speaker B: There. I. I feel like there's nothing you could throw at me with my typical daughters that would feel stressful because of.
• 19:34
  Speaker A: Imagine because of what I've dealt with. Right.
• 19:36
  Speaker B: With the boys.
• 19:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. And I. I mean, I'm glad that we can. I think we have to laugh about some of that. I mean, there really is, like, you know, I was just laughing with someone else about the stress relief that I realized that period underwear exists. I'm like, this is a game changer. I have been anticipating Millie going through period. I'm like, this is a game changer. I'm like, I know it sounds so silly, but, like. No. That truly is huge in this whole process. I'm like, thank the good Lord we.
• 20:03
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:03
  Speaker A: And it does like these stressors that especially, you know, bodily fluids and functioning and all these things. When something is a little Bit less stressful when it. For Millie and Mac, being based on the choices that I get to make in their growth, it is a luxury. It is truly a luxury. There's nothing that's gonna shake me from.
• 20:19
  Speaker B: I mean, they talk about the stress of special needs moms being like soldiers in combat. Right? Like, yeah.
• 20:25
  Speaker A: And I mean, the cortisol, that is real. Yeah. I talked to a woman recently who has become a friend of mine and she has a son that's in his late 20s, living in a residential place up in. Outside of Boston, and she had her cortisol level checked and the doctor didn't believe. Like, the doctor literally was like, we need to recheck this. And she's like, I'm going to get a recheck. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that that was an accurate read. Like he didn't believe it. And I. And I don't mean to say that in a way to. I'm not. I don't feel even happy or full of pride for saying that. It's just that I do feel that I know what it feels like, you.
• 20:57
  Speaker B: Know, when you have to spend 24 hours a day worrying about the safety of your kid, not eloping or, you know, what's all. Or it's. Yeah.
• 21:07
  Speaker A: You know, it's a.
• 21:08
  Speaker B: It's a big difference when.
• 21:10
  Speaker A: When you don't mentally. When your children. When. When Felix and Jasper were around, you know, let's say like late childhood, maybe like 8 to 10, 11, 12. And you were sort of in the phase of understanding what their therapies and schedules and what their inputs and needs were. What were the things that still were like, really difficult for you? Was that toileting? Was that inappropriate? Like behaviors in public? Like, what were those things that still maybe were like, God, I really. We need to harness that or we need to figure this out. Were there any things that stand out globally or are they very specific?
• 21:45
  Speaker B: Yeah. Going out in the community was always. Was never relaxing because there was. There was just no way of knowing Jasper especially very hard time, like waiting. Waiting in lines with. You know, so his behavior was so erratic that I could. I mean, we could never go to a restaurant. We could, you know, we traveled a bit back then and took airplanes. And I literally, when I think about it now, I can't believe I ever did it. You just. I just never knew how loud, how distressed, how upset he might be and what that looked like for everybody else too, you know. So the. Not only mine and my husband's stress but the other kids.
• 22:29
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
• 22:30
  Speaker B: Felix was less of a wild card. I sort of by. By the. You know, he's. He still. He had tantrums and those were hard but they more happened at home. But Jasper was just going out in the. In the community was really always the hardest thing.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: Did you remember picking like realizing that your choice selection of if you were to go out was so.
• 22:50
  Speaker B: Was so small. No. And the weekends maybe are. The weekends are long those years. Like I just remember every weekend being like I can't stay in the house because I'll lose my damn mind. And they, and they all need you know, an activity. But the options. He could obviously never play sports, never do anything organized. And there were, you know, there were fewer like sort of trampoline parks and open gym type places back then. Those were places we always did pretty well. But still I always needed another adult. But because I had one person had to be solely focused on him and making sure he was okay. And then I had three other kids who were little and could, you know, so. But it was. I needed like not organized activities spaces where he could be loud and sort of do his own thing. It was hard. You know, we spent years in playgrounds wherever we could go until the. The winter months were always so hard.
• 23:51
  Speaker A: Yeah. The trampoline for sure have. Have been helpful.
• 23:54
  Speaker B: They've been.
• 23:55
  Speaker A: I think I have like a. Like a charity in my mind that I'm building about like extra levels of fence around even the outside of a trampoline park because Mac and finding those exit doors.
• 24:05
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:06
  Speaker A: I'm all but like investing in full on neon green clothing for him so I can spot him. It's so ridiculous. But I'm like yep, that makes you know, that makes the most sense because. But every. The fencing in of things is so important.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker A: But again like having the options for those in the wintertime. And we were saying before we jumped on like the energy levels and management of any child is a lot but when you don't have the. The ability to have that express input needs from that it just adds such a level of not like confusion desire to want to do the right thing in the right situation.
• 24:42
  Speaker B: We. My husband had sort of a. A lesser tolerance for the unknowns of going out and doing things. Like there were things that I felt like I really love going apple picking and going pumpkin picking and when my kids were little we had years where those things were a freaking nightmare. Eventually my husband was like I cannot go on those outings anymore. Like he was very much about. We need to set up for success. You need some degree of certainty that something is gonna go well before you try it. And I felt differently. I felt like I need to keep trying.
• 25:19
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 25:20
  Speaker B: One day, you know, I. Not to a stupid point of like, this sucks every year. They hate it. We're not. It's like I had enough of a glimpse of sometimes things were good that I'd be like, I'm gonna give it one more shot. So there were a lot of years I just brought a babysitter and tried those things because I was like, there will be even if I get. I also always went into things with like, if I get 20 good minutes out of an experience that's two hours long, I'm gonna be okay with that.
• 25:48
  Speaker A: Absolutely. I, I can't hammer that point across. I don't know if that's because of you and I living this life longer than maybe someone that has a child that's two or three. I can't like, I, I want to like hand that out on like a brick to my mother and go. If you get 5, 10, 15 minutes of, of the day where you experienced some sort of a success in their lives, whether that's a game being played, an outing around the block, if you can harness that and feel, trust me, you feel so proud of yourself for that. Everyone else that's gone through that is so proud of you too.
• 26:22
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Speaker A: You know, I mean, my sister and I have joked, lower your expectations.
• 26:25
  Speaker B: Totally go a little lower.
• 26:27
  Speaker A: But you think you're low. You think you're low. No, you're still having hit that.
• 26:30
  Speaker B: And you appreciate those moments so much more than anybody else on this sticker book.
• 26:35
  Speaker A: She's. Millie is so hyperlexic. Numbers, letters, everything. And I found a sticker by letter book which normally they all sticker by numbers. And I thought I'm going to get, you know again, $6 on Amazon. Get in the mail. That girl laughed her frickin tail off when she sticker by number because she's sticker by let or she's only known sticker by number. She's not gotten a sticker by letter. And she looked at me, I go, I know it's sticker by letter. She does this like, you know, like.
• 26:59
  Speaker B: The best six bucks you ever spent.
• 27:01
  Speaker A: My God. And I'm like, get the drove, like back the truck up. I know everyone's nuts about what they spend on and what they don't. I am going to buy brain games. Why can't you be sponsored by them? This has created such joy and is she even doing it right? Probably not right. That was the win. That was the win.
• 27:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 27:17
  Speaker A: And I love that. I hope, I always hope to give to mothers that are earlier on the journey that that feeling of joy in the small moments will compound and compound and compound and you have to trust that it will because I think it's universal. I really.
• 27:32
  Speaker B: You stack, you stack up those blocks of those moments and they, they sustain you through the really, really millions of hard ones. You know, for sure.
• 27:41
  Speaker A: I guess on that note, what have been your wins recently for you and your family and then what about for yourself? I always want to go back as you were saying that we deserve peace and joy. That is without our children as well. So what would be those inch zone wins for both your kids and just for you personally?
• 27:59
  Speaker B: So Jasper, about a year and a half ago, started typing. He's doing a spelling to communicate program. And it's been so much more than an inch stone. It's been, you know, it's like cracked us all wide open. It's really, it's incredible. And I know that it's, it's controversial and it's. And I am the biggest skeptic. And you know, my husband for years was sending me emails. This new study, this new trial, this new. This. There's no, you know, mass studies proving that. And I never believed in anything.
• 28:33
  Speaker A: Low expectations. Like again, we all again for low expectations and super.
• 28:37
  Speaker B: I think everyone's out to scam me. I have, I am now I'm trained as a facilitator for him or as is my husband. And he has several people in his program and I feel it and I know it's real. So it was like it took me seeing him do type with somebody else.
• 28:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:55
  Speaker B: And type out something that I would have had no idea that, you know, he would know or be able to speak spell or be able to answer that. Trying to remember the first. I don't even. I literally. It's been, it's now been. There has been so much that I can't even remember the first thing.
• 29:12
  Speaker A: Yeah. Or just one of them.
• 29:13
  Speaker B: But the. So something, something interesting that happened. There's. There's a million things he has gone deep in talking about. I. I lost my father a year ago and he's gone deep in talking about his feelings and his visions of him and his life with him. He has told us funny things about old babysitters. We, we sat. We were sitting with my other kids one night talking about all the babysitters we've had over the years. And this one's my favorite. And this one was my favorite. And he told. And he. And we asked him and he typed, this one got drunk when you were out of town and we were like, my God. So like, amazing stuff like that. And then last Christmas, last Hanukkah, I was in a typing session with him and I said, you know, I've always just bought you the things that you need or that you like. You've never asked me for anything. You've never been able to express to me, I want this, I want that. Is there anything you want for Hanukkah that you, you know, would like for your house or for yourself? And he typed, I want waterproof shoes. When I go. When I go out in the rain in sneakers, they get wet and my socks feel squishy. And I don't like how that feels. And I was like the greatest thing that's ever happened.
• 30:28
  Speaker A: So I. Waterproof shoes.
• 30:30
  Speaker B: Yes, of course you need waterproof. Do you know what I mean?
• 30:33
  Speaker A: Come on. They're arrived 5 to 10pm Tonight I got.
• 30:38
  Speaker B: I found really cute Ugg waterproof shoes on Amazon and they were there the next day. But like, that was so big for me. Yes, of course it feels gross when you're soft. Get well too. And can you imagine feeling that way and not being able to tell anyone that until you're 22 years old? Like, huge. So. So my inch stone milestone hugeness in the last couple of years has been that in a million different ways, things he's been able to share and conversations he's been able to participate in. So that's huge. And really interestingly, watching my other kids interact with him now in a different way since they realize that he's like in there, you know, so that's. That's been amazing with. With all of them. For myself, I'm still, you know, I'm still sort of in the everything about me is being a mom phase, except that I've been able to, you know, in having him out of the house and Felix away at school and having. I've been able to take some really nice trips and not have to like, worry about what's going on at home, you know, I've. So that's been amazing, the ability. I still haven't really figured out what I'm, you know, what my next chapter is. I've still been so in it with my kids. But, you know, I'm grateful for those, those nice, happy moments where I'm not with a stomachache wondering how everyone's doing with a babysitter.
• 32:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that hearing you say that has always been peaceful and calming to me, being a few years behind in terms of the age of the children. And I, I always for myself, the carving out of travel days in the city, feeling like I have retained who I am through this. And it has changed too. But there is a core part of me that has always loved X, Y, Z. And if I can get back to that, even if it is five minutes or seven minutes, it really does remind me that I'm still in there, too. And it's nice to hear you say that as well, because my best and favorite job in the world has been being a mother. And Sarah is in there and Jenna's in there, too. So, again, I never can thank you enough for how open you've shared your story with me, how visible you've been, and more instrumental and more just led by example for me through the years. So thank you for sharing more here today. Thank you always. You know, it is such a fuel for me. So thank you for being here.
• 33:06
  Speaker B: My pleasure.
• 33:07
  Speaker A: And my best to all of your kids and as they grow and fly. And until next time, on the Inch Jones podcast.