Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / From Prison to Reinvention Architect- Craig Stanland

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From Prison to Reinvention Architect- Craig Stanland · Nightmare Success In and Out

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What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
0:03
Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy. Welcome to the Nightmare Success
0:06
In and Out podcast, where we explore how to overcome your
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fears and nightmares and set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
0:15
Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes.
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Sad. There's some humor.
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But hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
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that'll help you knock down some of the prisons you built up in
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your own mind. All right, folks.
0:34
Welcome back. Nightmare, success, in and out.
0:37
Listeners, you know, this is where you come to hear about,
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you know, what happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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How do you adapt, survive, overcome.
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Well, I've got that type of guest today.
0:48
I've got him. His name's Craig Stanfield.
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He, he's known as the reinvention, architect, mindset,
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coach. He's he's done a TEDx talk that
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I just talked to him about. It's such a cool deal.
1:00
If you, if you're into Ted Talks at all, go and check it out.
1:03
I listened to it yesterday. I liked it so much I took it
1:06
home to my wife and had her listen to it.
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It's just a powerful, powerful speech.
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He's a keynote speaker. He's a bestselling author.
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Just a quick thing on Craig. In 2012, Craig Stanlin made a
1:20
choice. That would cost him everything.
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He exploited a warranty policy of one of the largest tech
1:26
companies in the world for almost a year and then the FBI
1:30
came knocking on the door. He did a two year sentence.
1:35
He hit rock bottom and he found his passion.
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And I can't wait to get on all this because it's such a great
1:42
story and he's he's a he's a motivational guy.
1:45
If you sit and listen to it just for a little bit, you feel like
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Tell them the Brent from nightmare success since you
2:35
Craig Stanlin Welcome in my man. How are you?
2:39
How are you? I am doing really well, so
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excited for our conversation. You and I have spoken before.
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We spoke a few minutes, you know, before where we hit
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record. I know we're gonna have a really
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good conversation and thank you for that great intro.
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Well, I mean you and what did you get out?
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I mean, you haven't been out that long.
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So I got out. I was done with the halfway
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house May 9th, 2016 off of supervised release May 9th,
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2019. You have hit the ground running
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since you've been out. You, I mean you've done a lot of
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things helping a lot of people and you know, I what I love
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about this podcast is is finding people who are who really take
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their journey and instead of you know.
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Crawling up in a fetal position and giving up you and you tell a
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really good story and we'll get into that about your rock bottom
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moment and how you really found yourself and and what you're
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doing now is just an outshoot of that and and how you continue to
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to grow that. Take us back a little bit,
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Craig. Have you always been this
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motivated? Were you just a motivated kid?
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I mean were you taking on the world at 5-6 years old?
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What was going on back then? I would say no.
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I would say no. I would say that I was an
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extremely creative child. I loved my creativity.
4:02
I'd love to write. I'd love to draw.
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I loved creating these different worlds in my mind.
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You know, like The Chronicles of Narnia, The Goonies, Raiders of
4:11
the Law, Dark. That was all in my wheelhouse.
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And I loved that sense of adventure.
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And I would say that I was always fairly entrepreneurial,
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but I wasn't. As motivated as I am now, it
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was, you know, what it was. It was really that 5-6 years
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old, you know, you have still that a little bit of freedom of
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the child's mind, where you know the shoulds and the expectations
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and the opinions and the fear of judgments from others haven't
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really kicked in. You can you can dive into those
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fun, you know, realms of the imagination and those you know,
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those worlds. As I started getting older then
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it became a little bit of. You know well you can't make
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money writing. You know who are you?
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Who are you gonna? You gotta get an office job.
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You've gotta do all of these things.
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You gotta follow the blueprint. Sure did your?
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Parents. Come from an entrepreneurial
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background, like what was going on in that household.
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I would say. My father is one of the
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brightest men I've ever known. I mean, it's just ridiculous.
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Man can like, calculate the distance between planets with a
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pencil on a piece of paper. I mean, it's just like you're
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smart, It's disgusting, it's annoying.
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But he was. Wouldn't say entrepreneurial,
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but he took because he's older. He's in his, you know, 80s now.
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So you kind of think about when he was growing up that was, you
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know, go to school, get good grades, get that solid job.
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He worked for the same company, believed for 48 years.
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Wow, yeah. That's.
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That's almost unheard of anymore.
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I mean that. So many dips around.
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Yeah, that doesn't even happen anymore.
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No. So he didn't.
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I would say he he also was very creative.
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Individual, but didn't have that entrepreneurial thing because
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when he was growing up, I think if you were to do that, you were
6:04
considered somewhat nuts. Yeah, you know, I mean, that was
6:08
like insanity, right? You know, go work for one of the
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top ten companies and you know you're going to be good.
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Get your pension. Yep.
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Get your 4O1K. So that was my dad and my mom.
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Definitely not entrepreneurial. You know, very creative in her
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own way, you know in the kitchen and you know helping out with
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the Boy Scouts and the Cub Scouts and things like that and
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you know would be putting together those meetings but not
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entrepreneurial. I did, you know, I don't know
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where that actually where some of that drive did come from, but
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I was mowing, I was mowing bonds at 11:00.
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Well that's an entreprene and that probably.
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Yeah, that actually came from in a sense.
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That did come from my dad. It was like, you gotta work,
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work, work, you know? There was definitely that
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mentality of were you an. Only child Craig, or did you
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have siblings? Older sister, older sister who
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is 6 years older than I am. OK, that's quite a bit older in
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those days. I mean, being a kid, right?
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Yeah. You're 6, she's 12.
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Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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She was really cool. She introduced me to, you know,
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Pink Floyd and. KISS and clean and through
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loops. Yeah, all the cool stuff.
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So your high school years what? What was normal growing up high
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school? I would times.
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I would think, you know, I would think, I would say that it was
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normal, but it's also what is exactly normal.
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True. It's it's what I grew up with
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And you know, all of my friends were doing the same thing.
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So it was all normal for us. Sure, to somebody looking on the
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outside, maybe it was a little bit different, but we were.
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The group of friends that I hung out with, we were savages.
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I mean, we went out and partied like absolute rock stars.
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I mean, just massive keg parties.
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We would, you know, honestly, we we'd get off.
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Think about this for a teenager, we would get off at like, what
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time will we get out? 4:35 AM, just to meet at
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somebody's house so we could get drunk before school.
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Wow. Wow.
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That's that's the organization right there.
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Real discipline. Maybe that some of that little
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bit of that godether you were talking about, I had more of it
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than I realized. But you know, we were, we were
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risk takers, We were drinkers, we were partiers.
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You know, when I was young, I was very in tune with school and
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trying to get. The the best grades that I
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could, you know, studying really hard and you're going to go
8:32
somewhere that's probably going to inform some of the later
8:35
decisions and what we're going to dive into, you know, But I
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started realizing. So I bring home, let's say a 97
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on a test, 9899, you know, really good scores, right?
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My father would inevitably take that test and he would find the
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one question that I got wrong. And he would say, why did you
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get this wrong? That was a careless mistake.
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That was a stupid mistake. I know you know the answer to
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this. And my child brain, you know, I
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think that started around the age of sevenish or so.
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That childhood brain started hearing.
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And I know my father never said that, but it's like you're
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stupid and you know, you know better and your best is not
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good. I started really realizing if I
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was putting. My, my best into that test and I
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was falling short of my father's expectations, then my best is
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never going to be good enough. And therefore I'm not good
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enough. Never measure up, you know,
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Never, never going to measure up.
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Never going to be worthy, never going to be enough.
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And that is something, quite frankly, and I think it's why
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I'm able to help my clients now. It's something I still struggle
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with, you know, it really set a tone and I think it's so
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interesting. How these beliefs can be formed
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and how they become trues until we actually uncover them and dig
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into what they are. So that was a huge part of my
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childhood and I bring that up because you know, like I said up
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until about 7:00, you know, or what's starting at 7, you know,
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getting that negative feedback from my father will eventually
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when I kind of got to high school even a little bit before
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that, more like middle school. I said.
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I said I'm not working that hard anymore because of my best is
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never going to be good enough. Why am I going to put myself out
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there and fall short over and over and over again?
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I'm not going to do that. So I ended up cheating on a lot
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of tests because I'm not an idiot.
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I still want to bring home a decent score, but I'm not going
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to invest myself in that work. So cheating gave me an out.
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So let's let's progress past you because you had tremendous
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success. So, but you felt somewhat like
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an impostor syndrome. I'm thinking I'm hearing how did
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how did the things progress for you getting into the, you know,
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adult world, college and beyond? So college, I ended up failing
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out, actually, you know, because I was not willing to.
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I still wasn't willing to put in the work because I didn't want
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to fall short of my father's expectations.
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And the penalty for cheating in college is so severe that I
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wasn't willing to do that. So I just didn't do the work,
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and I failed out after my first year at the University of
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Delaware. And so I.
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Which isn't a common refreshment, by the way.
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I mean, some people get to college, it's the first time on
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their own. They've got all this social
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stuff going on, and the thing that falls in the background is
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actually going to classes. Yeah, it was.
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Well, The funny thing was I was used to being on my own when I
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was a kid. My parents were going through a
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divorce. So starting at about the age of
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13, my father would call home and say, is your mother coming
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home to cook you dinner? And I learned real quick as a
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clever little kid, I think, yes, she is.
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My mom would call home and say, is your dad coming home to cook
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you dinner? I'd say yes, he is.
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So I knew they would both stay out.
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So I had the house to myself. So I've got this, really, I've
12:02
got this really big home on a private road, on a golf course,
12:06
you know, to myself. So I could drink.
12:09
I could have friends over and hang out.
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I knew what time they'd come home.
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It was easy peasy. So going to school, going to
12:15
college, it was almost limiting to me, you know?
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But I I just wasn't willing to put in that work because I
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didn't want to fall short of his expectations.
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So I fail out of college and I was doing landscaping at the
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time. And you know, for the listeners,
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I'm not a I'm not a large individual.
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I'm 54. You know, at the time, I weighed
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probably 115 pounds. That I'm wickedly strong.
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I was a competitive power lifter.
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I was ranked third in the country.
12:42
I had New York State records. Delaware State records, Jersey
12:45
state records. And so all my friends would say
12:47
you should be a trainer. And so I'd become a personal
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trainer. I've loved that job.
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It's got meaning. It's got fulfillment.
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It's got all the good, you know, all the good stuff to it that
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like now I I coach people to connect with.
13:01
Right. And.
13:04
One of my clients came really good friends with my clients.
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We would go out on the weekends and she would bring her husband
13:10
along and the three of us became really good friends and one day
13:14
over drinks, Her husband's name was Sandy.
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Sandy said. Craig, let me ask you a
13:18
question, how much money you make?
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And I told him, and he was taken aback that a trainer in his
13:22
early 20s could make as much as I was making because it's
13:25
awesome. How would you like to make four
13:26
times that? I said, well, I'm listening.
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That would catch your attention. Yeah, I would catch your
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attention. Because I'm listening.
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He goes, I want you to meet a friend of mine.
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His name is Rick. Rick owns a technology company.
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And so I end up going to this interview with this, you know,
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guy named Rick who I knew nothing about other than he owns
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this company. And during the interview, this
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is really funny, you know, I had nothing to lose.
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I've got a good career. I know nothing about this guy or
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his company. He says, Rick says, you know, I
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hear you're a friend of Sandy. Why don't you tell me about
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yourself? I said, well, I'm going to.
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You know, share a couple things with you, but I think are really
14:02
important. Number one, I know you do
14:04
something in technology, and I don't know anything about
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technology. I can barely turn on my own
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laptop. I'm completely enough.
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And he's kind of, like laughing. And I go to #2, I'm extremely
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intelligent and I'll work my ass off for you.
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And he just leans back in his chair, get the big smile on his
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face, and he goes, you're fired. And that's how I ended up in the
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corporate world. I started at the bottom of the
14:27
company. And this is important.
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Which is funny though, because you know when they when you're
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talking to people about going in and being in an interview
14:37
setting, one of the things, one of the big things, is to be
14:40
memorable. And obviously you caught his
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attention. He probably never had anybody
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say that to him before. He probably didn't.
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I'm looking back when I walked out of there really quickly when
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I walked out of there. I was like, did I just say I'm
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going to work my ass off for him?
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Did I curse in an interview and. He liked.
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That I was like, what was I thinking?
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And I said, well it worked, but I started at the bottom and this
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actually informs my later crime starting at the bottom and
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getting assigned to the number one sales guy in the company was
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amazing, not because he was the number one guy in the company.
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But because he was really generous with his wisdom and how
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he got to be #1 and we made an incredible team.
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But starting at the bottom allowed me to learn all of the
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systems and processes of not only our company, but our
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partner company, Cisco Systems. I learned everything inside and
15:44
out and I was able to do a lot of things.
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That the people that I was supporting, you know, the senior
15:52
enterprise account manager that they didn't know how to do.
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And together because of that we made a really incredible team.
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You know, we made a really powerful team and I got very
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embedded in our client base. You know, I would, you know, I
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was one of the only, I was an inside sales account manager,
16:12
which means you're supposed to be inside.
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I would go to the client's location.
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And they would set a cube up for me and I would work there during
16:19
the day and hang out. I got to know them well.
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The guy that I was supporting, he decided that he wanted a new
16:25
challenge. We wanted a different industry.
16:27
So he left. So the number one guy is gone.
16:30
Giant vacuum in the company. I've been there about four years
16:34
at this point. There's only one person that
16:36
could fill that role. So I immediately got.
16:39
And I rocketed up my base salary triple by getting commissioned
16:42
car allowance, you know, the expense account for a sales guy,
16:46
all of those things overnight. Yeah, wow.
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All of those things overnight and that.
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What was going through your head at that time, being that
16:54
happening as it happened? It was what I was striving for,
16:59
so I was really proud. I was really happy and there was
17:04
kind of this. You know, I was happy, but it
17:07
was also this, this trap that so many of us fall into.
17:11
When I get this promotion, then I'll be happy, you know, And I
17:16
was, I was happy. When you get that car, then
17:18
you'll be happy. When you get that house, then
17:20
you'll be happy. Exactly.
17:21
And and so the money starts coming in and I go and lease,
17:25
you know, the BMW when I get that car, to your point, when I
17:28
get that car then I'll be happy. When I buy that pan or I watch,
17:32
then I'll be happy. You know, it was all of those.
17:36
All of those things. And I kept falling into that
17:39
over and over again. And that feeling of you nailed
17:45
it, imposter it. Never.
17:47
That never really left me the sense of not being worthy of
17:51
that success, even though I earned it.
17:53
You know, I knew I was there four years, but it didn't
17:55
matter. I didn't see that.
17:57
And the feeling of not being enough and realizing now I could
18:01
buy all of these things that I believe we've really been
18:04
conditioned. To believe that they're going to
18:08
make us happy, that they're going to make us who we need to
18:10
be to be someone in society, You know, all of a sudden I got this
18:15
gaping inadequacy, but now I can start filling it with things.
18:19
And so that became, I think you might know, I mean, it becomes a
18:24
very addictive, you know, lifestyle.
18:29
It's wickedly intoxicating to be able to, you know, pop into, I
18:33
lived in Connecticut to pop into a jewelry store on Greenwich
18:37
Ave. in Greenwich and you know, say I want that watch and not
18:42
even bat and I at it. It's very intoxicating getting
18:46
on the VIP list and some of those restaurants in Greenwich,
18:49
again very intoxicating. And it became an identity.
18:53
It became who I want. Who that This is who you were?
18:57
Yeah. This is who I am.
18:59
I am my job. I am my salary.
19:02
I am my ability to purchase things and my things themselves.
19:06
That was who I was and that's not a great place to be.
19:12
Well, and I think, I think you might have said this and it
19:15
might have been in your Ted talk that you're trying to fill a
19:18
glass that had a crack in it. And so it was impossible to fill
19:22
it all the way up. I was.
19:24
That's exactly right. I was.
19:27
Touring all of these things into a broken glass, they were just
19:30
coming out the other end. And I was, I was too blind to
19:34
see the futility of my actions. I just couldn't.
19:37
I was too close to it. And you know, the interesting
19:41
thing and why it's addictive is, you know, running that, you
19:45
know, the platinum cards, running that for a watch comes a
19:48
little dopamine rush. You know, it's got that little,
19:52
little shot, that little rush and it.
19:54
Feels so good. So now the brain starts
19:58
associating when I buy this, when I get that reservation at
20:01
this restaurant. When I do that, I'm going to
20:03
feel good. But those dopamine shops are so
20:07
short term, they are not long term.
20:10
They fake quick hives, fade quickly and next thing you know
20:14
like I I I something that I call the the Golden treadmill.
20:18
And I was. On the golden treadmill,
20:21
sprinting furiously trying to catch the horizon.
20:24
And we all know how silly that actually is.
20:27
Thank you. And that's and that's what I was
20:29
doing and I I kept running and I kept on turning up the speed and
20:32
turning up the incline because I was getting those rewards
20:37
because it felt good, you know, But they fade and you got to
20:40
keep running. Man, that finish line, it
20:43
doesn't, it's not stationary. It's a moving target.
20:47
Okay so this. Kind of leads us into, Craig,
20:51
how you got into your nightmare because you were running that
20:55
treadmill, the golden treadmill and you were still reaching and
21:01
I'm assuming that you thought I could do this and maybe take a
21:07
shortcut or? So a couple of things.
21:12
You're you're like, you're you're right there.
21:14
I'm going to fill in. I'm going to fill in a couple of
21:16
the gaps. I had started dating somebody
21:20
who I really like, pursued for quite a long time, started
21:24
dating and I immediately showed her the lifestyle, immediately
21:29
brought her in. Right.
21:31
And I set the bar. Really, really high.
21:35
And I put her so high on a pedestal that I had to maintain
21:39
that lifestyle because heaven forbid she saw that I was less
21:43
than, you know, I had presented this front, which quite honestly
21:48
was a little bit of a facade because yes, I was that
21:51
successful individual, but I had used.
21:54
I never lied, but I used semantics when I used language
21:57
to almost overinslate my success.
22:00
And then between that and showing her this lifestyle of
22:03
walking up and down Greenwich Ave. and buying her the Jimmy
22:05
Choos and the Christian Louis Vuitton, you know, doing all
22:08
those things, I had set that bar and was terrified of being seen
22:13
as anything as less than. Well, a couple of interesting
22:16
things started happening, #1. The products I was selling were
22:20
becoming more commoditized, so the margins were getting razor
22:24
thin on all of my deals. I get paid on the margin.
22:29
My Commission checks start falling.
22:31
Well, #2, here I am walking up and down Brentwood Ave. buying
22:36
those Jimmy Choos and those Christian Louis Vuitton.
22:38
Not on the weekend. I'm doing it during the week
22:42
when I should have been working, when I should have been
22:44
servicing. I dealt with some of the largest
22:46
financial institutions in the world.
22:49
These are demanding clients that expect you to be there.
22:53
And I'm sitting here jerking around.
22:56
Getting drunk on a Wednesday, You know, champagne lunches
22:59
going to Saks 5th Ave. Having the time of my life.
23:03
So take a guess. My paychecks start shrinking.
23:06
Well, now, you know, like we had just spoken about this identity
23:10
that I have created is being wickedly threatened.
23:13
And I've got a massive problem and I've got to figure out how
23:16
to solve it and I got to figure out how to solve it very
23:18
quickly. Well, remember I said I started
23:21
at the bottom of the company and the system's inside and out when
23:25
I started thinking about. How can I fix this problem?
23:29
I knew Cisco's warranty policy inside and out and I started
23:34
thinking about, well, I know that almost better than anybody.
23:40
How can I put that to my advantage, you know?
23:43
And the the interesting thing is I could have very easily had the
23:47
conversation she, the girl I was dating ended up I ended up
23:50
marrying her. She became my wife.
23:53
I could have had that conversation saying I can't do
23:55
it anymore. I can't do it, and I actually am
23:59
not enjoying it anymore. It's too much.
24:02
This isn't what I want to do. This isn't an alignment with who
24:05
I am. I want to write a screenplay.
24:07
I want to invent something. I want to start my own business.
24:11
I want to do these things. But I was too afraid to be seen
24:15
as last time, and I saw only kind of, in a sense, very much
24:20
tunnel vision. Where there was only one way out
24:22
and I knew that I could exploit Cisco's warranty policy to solve
24:26
my problem. And that's the road I started
24:29
going down. How long did that happen?
24:33
I think it was about a year or so, but until the gig was up.
24:40
The fraud lasted for 10 1/2 months.
24:43
It lasted for 10 1/2 months. And you know, I think something
24:47
really interesting about the fraud.
24:49
It took me months to put this thing together.
24:51
You know, I look like, look like Russell Crowe in A Beautiful
24:54
mind. You know, you have like posted
24:56
notes all written all over the place.
24:58
You know, I wasn't quite that bad, but I mean I my journals
25:01
were filled with my scribbles, trying to put this together,
25:04
posted notes everywhere. And the day after about four
25:07
months of of putting this together.
25:10
The day I was going to initiate the fraud, I was working from
25:14
home before everybody was forced to work from home.
25:16
So there was a sales guy. I could do that.
25:18
And I'm sitting at the dining room table and I'm hovering my
25:21
finger over the mouse to hit the send button to initiate the
25:26
fraud. And I'll never forget this.
25:29
My finger wouldn't go down. It just wouldn't depress.
25:33
And my heart was sitting there going stop, don't do this.
25:36
This is not the way for you. It was imploring me not to make
25:41
this choice, and I lifted my finger away from the mouth a
25:46
little bit. I had that pause.
25:47
I had that second where I was like, okay, you know, this
25:51
isn't, this isn't the way for me.
25:53
I thought about having that honest and frank conversation a
25:57
with myself that I can't keep up with what I'm doing and with my
26:02
wife and even maybe with my family and that.
26:07
Rigging, terror and fear of being seen as last then kicked
26:12
in and I start thinking a little bit of excitement that I found a
26:16
treasure map that nobody else knows about and this is going to
26:19
work out great. And that finger went down, hit
26:21
the other stand button and damned if that fraud didn't like
26:25
it. Worked like a charm the first
26:28
time. And then said, wow, this thing
26:31
works so well, how can I scale it?
26:33
How can I make it bigger? How can I make it better?
26:35
How can I go deeper? And it just it took on life of
26:38
its own. Wow.
26:42
So walk us through the when the nightmare happened to you and
26:45
they come knocking on the door and how's your world change and
26:48
what are you thinking? So this is a little bit
26:51
different than I think a lot of the that knocking on the door.
26:54
So I had started a brand new job.
26:59
Our biggest competitor had wooed me away with a nice pay package.
27:03
My old employer was not treating the senior guys as well.
27:09
They were kind of, you know, they they wanted us out, so they
27:13
weren't treating us well. So our biggest competitor comes
27:15
along with this great pay package and I knew people had
27:18
already gone there and they're like they're treating us really
27:20
well, a lot of respect. So this is great.
27:23
So I'd stop my fraud. So it stops the fraud.
27:26
I'm two weeks into this brand new job.
27:28
I drove from Connecticut down to Manhattan.
27:31
Our office was right next door to Madison Square Garden.
27:34
I take the elevator off 37 floors.
27:36
I'm setting up my desk for the day like we would all do.
27:40
You know? I put my laptop down, I put my
27:41
notebook down, put my pen down, and I grab my phone and I can
27:46
look at it. And I noticed there's a missed
27:49
call and a voicemail. And I thought, that's so weird.
27:51
He's calling me on Tuesday at 8:45 in the morning.
27:55
But then we would all do. I put the phone to my ear, and
27:57
this is what I heard. Mr. Stanlin, this is Special
28:00
Agent McKinnon with the FBI. We are at your residence and
28:03
have a warrant for your arrest. You need to call us and come
28:06
home immediately or we will issue a warrant with the federal
28:10
marshals. Wow, that was my knock on the
28:13
door. That takes your breath away.
28:16
What? What are you thinking?
28:19
In your mind at that moment. Well, you you nailed it.
28:23
It was like all oxygen in the room was sucked out.
28:26
I was having difficulty breathing.
28:28
My heart and stomach fell with 37 floors that I had just come
28:33
up my eye. It was, it was nausea, it was
28:36
terror, it was panic. And amid all of that, my heart
28:42
spoke again and it said, I told you so.
28:46
Right. Exactly.
28:48
You know, And now it was a question of, you know, 8:45 in
28:52
the morning, the office is half full.
28:53
I don't remember everybody's name.
28:56
How do I explain to them that I'm leaving for the day when I
28:59
only just got here and it's so ridiculous.
29:03
I'm kind of curious if you had any of these experiences, like
29:05
the crazy things that go through your mind when you're going
29:08
through such a traumatic event. I started thinking I was like.
29:12
Everybody knows I'm wanted by the FBI.
29:13
That voicemail was broadcast over the PA system.
29:17
I had no idea if the office even had a PA system, but it was like
29:20
everybody heard that. Everybody knows they're going to
29:22
want it. Yeah, you know, I thought there
29:25
was a neon side, like pointing at me saying wanted.
29:29
But I I walked out of there. I told them I'd gotten about a
29:32
client meeting. Nobody cared anyway, and I made
29:34
that long drive home into the unknown.
29:40
How long did this last for you? Once the, once they had, you
29:43
know, confronted you with that, they had you and and discovered
29:47
this, how long did you live through this before you reached
29:51
your plea agreement? Mine was, and I was really
29:57
fortunate with this. Mine was one of the fastest that
30:00
I've ever heard. So I'll even like shortcut the
30:02
question. In a sense, I went from arrest
30:05
to reporting in. About 10 1/2 months.
30:09
Well, that's almost unheard of. That's, I mean, it was, it was
30:13
insane. So I was arrested on October
30:15
1st. I was six years, Craig I.
30:21
Think it's unbelievable. I went, I was away with somebody
30:24
who I believe was just over 8 years.
30:27
I think it's just so I feel so terribly for you guys because of
30:32
the level of uncertainty and you know, I got to imagine that life
30:37
almost feels. Kind of normal, you know, after
30:40
like year three or whatever it may be.
30:42
But you're doing, you're saying you're working, you're hanging
30:44
out with family, you're doing your stuff.
30:46
And then maybe there's those moments where you're like, damn,
30:49
I've got this cloud over me, you know, I I can't even imagine
30:53
that. So I was, I was really fortunate
30:57
and I think in part because mine was a one man shot.
31:01
It was really cut and dry. The FBI agent who arrested me
31:06
actually thanked me for keeping the most meticulous spreadsheet
31:09
he had ever seen in his twenty plus year career.
31:12
That made his job, Really. Easy to follow, right?
31:16
Okay. Easy to follow.
31:17
Everything was there. You know, I also think it was,
31:20
in a sense, a testament to Cisco, a giant technology
31:23
company, having all of their ducks in a row as well.
31:28
You know, it's very easy for them to pull all the data you
31:31
know, and then I've got corroborating spreadsheets.
31:34
So with your. I think that was.
31:35
With these things that happened in that time period, you know,
31:39
you've got your wife, you got your family.
31:43
How does all that stay together or unravel?
31:49
The marriage. The day of the arrest, the
31:53
marriage was unraveling because. Really.
31:56
Unfortunately, she received the knock on the door.
32:00
They got there about 8:30 in the morning.
32:02
Also very fortunate because I know a lot of people get the,
32:04
you know, the 5:30 wake up call. They came at about 8:30 and you
32:09
know, she opened the door. She said there was probably
32:11
about 15 agents, you know, with the pistols, the shotguns, the
32:14
assault rifles all pointed at her head and face, you know,
32:18
executing the search warrant. She has no idea what's going on.
32:21
So that was unto itself, let alone all the lies.
32:25
That I had committed over that 10 1/2 month period of
32:28
committing the fraud. You know, that was the beginning
32:31
of the unraveling. My family, on the other hand,
32:36
were obviously very shocked. You know, they were, they were
32:41
shocked, saddened, disappointed, you know, all of those things
32:46
that they rallied. She was my family's credit.
32:48
They absolutely, absolutely rallied behind both of us at the
32:54
time. But it was, you know, I have to
32:57
say, I think that that 10 1/2 months between getting arrested
33:02
and actually going away with some of the worst time that I
33:06
had in this because of the level of uncertainty, you know,
33:11
because one of your previous guests, good friend of mine,
33:14
amazing podcast episode by the way, Jeff Frant.
33:17
Runs the white collar support group I fortunately, one of my
33:22
neighbors read about my story in the paper and introduced me to
33:25
Jeff and that's how we got connected.
33:28
But prior to being connected with him, my pretrial probation
33:33
officer was trying to be nice and she told me do not Google
33:38
prison. It's going to scare the hell out
33:40
of you. Stay off the Internet.
33:42
Don't look at it at all. So I did that.
33:45
I didn't know that there was such thing as the federal prison
33:48
camp. I didn't know there were
33:49
different levels of security. I had no idea.
33:52
So until I met Jeff, I actually thought I was going to the
33:56
prison that we see in the Oz. And like I said earlier, I'm
33:59
5-4. At the time when I was arrested
34:01
I was £140.00. So I'm not a big, I'm not a big
34:03
guy. It's like I'm going to get raped
34:05
and beaten every single day. If I go to prison, that's what's
34:08
going to happen to me. There's it's like inevitable was
34:11
my belief. So I spent that time up until
34:14
meeting Jack when he explains the different levels.
34:16
And I'm not going to Oz, you know, I just had that that cloud
34:21
hanging over me and then Jeff helped with that.
34:24
Then I knew that the marriage was unraveling.
34:26
So I got that cloud over me, the cloud that we all experienced.
34:29
What am I going to do for work? What am I going to do for a
34:31
career? Where am I going to live?
34:33
I can't afford the house anymore.
34:34
I mean, all of the. All those things, and I'm sure
34:40
I'm guessing you expand, I want to assume, but you can tell me
34:44
yes or no. But I think this justice journey
34:47
is one of a the bottom falls out when you get that knock on the
34:50
door, whether it's figurative or literal, you know, the bottom
34:53
falls out, you fall, and then you kind of feel like you might
34:56
hit a little bit of Terra, Firma, Firma, you know, and
34:59
you're like, okay, all right, kind of getting used to your new
35:03
surrounding. And then something else happens.
35:06
And the bottom falls out again. Yeah.
35:08
And it's just like this constant falling, you know, And that's
35:15
definitely a huge part of my experience.
35:18
It's just that constant falling until eventually I hit bottom.
35:23
Yeah. And I I I've explained it before
35:25
to you, Craig, where it almost feels like somebody puts you in
35:28
a room, the bottom falls out, it's dark and you keep grabbing
35:31
the edges and the edges keep moving further away.
35:34
You just can't grab anything because you're in a fall and you
35:38
do hit a rock bottom. You do hit a rock bottom and you
35:43
know we we talked about this before you know we got on
35:46
because your your Ted talk is a lot about that whole rock bottom
35:49
moment. But before we get into that I'm
35:52
what do you are you when you go and get to where you're going to
35:58
the prison do you have like. Anything going because you've
36:03
talked to Jeff, Jeff Grant. Are you thinking strategies of
36:08
how you're going in or are you just, I'm here, I want to get it
36:11
over with. I'll figure it out.
36:16
Jeff had given me a couple of things that he had done.
36:19
You know, going in, he had a. Really cool thing that he did
36:24
where he was going to in a sense, you know walk across the
36:26
country and he was going to. It was very cool because I think
36:29
I did walk across the country and back.
36:31
I just didn't do it the map way that Jeff did it.
36:34
How? I mean, how cool is that?
36:35
I love that technology. I'm in Nashville.
36:37
I'm. In wherever today I'm in
36:38
Oklahoma. Wherever, yeah.
36:40
So cool. And I love that.
36:43
But I didn't do that. I was more.
36:44
I was like, OK, there are going to be things I can do.
36:49
And I was a personal trainer. Once people found that out, you
36:54
know, I was immediately I had a full client roster, I had a full
36:58
client roster, you know, felt really bad for the other guys
37:01
that were trainers there because I actually, I could charge
37:03
double what they were charging because I was actually a trainer
37:05
it. Was a real deal.
37:08
It was a real deal. And so, you know, I start
37:11
training, I worked in the kitchen, which was really good
37:14
because I had access to to food and it was one of the, you know,
37:18
one of the few jobs where you actually have to work and a lot
37:20
of people. You know, wanted those, you
37:23
know, like just show up jobs where you don't do anything.
37:26
I really didn't want that. I wanted something that would
37:28
help pass the time. I think I felt like I was being
37:31
a good. Point.
37:32
I think that's a good point to Craig cuz I had a I had a, you
37:35
know I worked in the food warehouse and and it really did.
37:38
I mean I like I learned how to do.
37:40
I got forklift certified. I did a lot of things that I
37:43
would never thought I'd been able to do, but it did eat up
37:45
time. And that was one of the bigger
37:47
things that I was concerned about was like, how am I going
37:50
to eat up all this time and not just sit around and think, Oh my
37:53
God, I'm in prison? That was.
37:56
I mean right. It's prison is you know the the
37:59
days are the days are slow the weeks are fast right.
38:03
And it's just a question of coming up with that routine.
38:06
So you know I knew Jeff said get a routine so I was I'm I'm a
38:10
routine guy anyway so it's just really finding that routine
38:14
giving myself. A little bit of that room to do
38:17
some of the things that I said I always wanted to do before I
38:19
went to prison, like meditate, you know, I mean, they gave me
38:23
the and we said I don't have enough time.
38:25
Well, we all know in prison you got plenty of time.
38:27
So it started meditating and diving into that world,
38:30
journaling, practicing, gratitude, you know, doing those
38:34
those different things to kind of make sense of why I made the
38:39
choices I made and why I sacrificed so much for so
38:43
little, you know, really. And a lot of it was a lot of
38:48
berating myself. A lot of just, you know, beating
38:51
myself over the head for being, you know, so foolish.
38:55
Well, and your nickname was Smiley and that wasn't what was
39:00
going on inside your your inside your mind at that time.
39:06
Not even, not even a little bit so.
39:09
You know, once I realized that I was in a safe place, I went to
39:12
Otisville Federal prison. You know, I think in 2009 or
39:15
2011, some way back when Forbes came to like one of the 10 best
39:20
prisons you could go to or something like that, you know,
39:23
So it was, I knew I was safe. Really grateful for that.
39:27
Your show intro nails it. It's the mental prison.
39:31
And I was in the mental prison of shame because my heart spoke.
39:38
When I was sitting at that dining room table and my finger
39:40
hovered over that mouse button, it said stop, don't do this.
39:42
This is not the way. Well, there's more to that than
39:45
just that one instance. Because my fraud lasted for 10
39:48
1/2 months, and because it was very transactional, it required
39:52
thousands of choices to maintain it over that duration.
39:56
Each. It's not an exaggeration.
39:57
Each and every one of those choices was made in the face of
40:00
my heart saying stop, don't do this, this is not the way.
40:04
And I ignored that voice. Over and over again, and the
40:10
shame of doing that, of plowing forward and in the face of so
40:16
many red flags and the damage I had done to my marriage and to
40:20
my family and even, you know, felt it with society.
40:23
That shame was so all consuming and it came to it came to a real
40:31
head on December 22nd, 2014. My wife was coming for a visit
40:39
the three days before Christmas, and I knew something was up.
40:42
I knew something was in the air. I could feel it in her emails.
40:46
I could feel it in her voice, you know, It's like the sort of
40:49
Damocles was hanging over my head by that thread.
40:54
And we sit down, we squeeze in because the visiting room is
40:57
jammed, you know, like I said three days before Christmas and
41:00
I kind of started digging. She doesn't want to.
41:02
She just want to really talk about it.
41:04
But I keep digging because I know it's there.
41:07
And she just threw tear filled eyes that I'm leaving you.
41:10
And that was when that sword was caught and it came crashing
41:15
down. And that was really the that I
41:18
wouldn't even say was rock bottom.
41:20
But that was where the shame truly enveloped me and then
41:25
brought me to a very terrifying place.
41:30
Let's talk about it, because it's one of the most powerful
41:33
things you talk about in your Ted talk.
41:37
It was like I said, I started meditating in prison.
41:41
And so one day, during one of my meditations, my brain shows me,
41:46
shows me a short film of what my own suicide would look like.
41:51
And it was wickedly graphic. It was as if the perspective was
41:55
as if I was sitting in a movie theater and I was watching the
41:59
stage. And this character comes in from
42:02
stage blasting. He walks in, He's wearing a
42:04
black hood over his head. And I knew it was me because I
42:07
could feel the the resignation in that, in that individual's
42:11
shoulders. And so I sit down in this chair
42:15
in one of the basements of one of the homes that I owned, kind
42:19
of dirty, based in an old house. And the chair's a little
42:22
rickety. And I sit down and before I know
42:24
it, I reach under the chair and I pull out a pistol and I.
42:29
I put the pistol in my mouth through the mask and I pull the
42:35
trigger and my brains go all up against the wall behind me.
42:39
Almost very scary enough, similar to the background behind
42:42
me. And I I see this when I'm
42:46
meditating and it scares the absolute hell out of me.
42:49
And I was so disturbed by it, how crystal clear it was and how
42:53
real it was. And so I waved it off.
42:56
Right. I just was like, what?
42:57
No, no, I don't want to think about that.
42:59
Totally strange. I go about my day.
43:00
I go to the kitchen. I'm making lunch, I'm making
43:02
dinner, I'm doing my thing. When I sit down the next day for
43:05
meditation and that short film comes back.
43:09
And so I wave it off again, but then it comes back, and then I
43:14
finish that meditation. I go about my day, same thing,
43:16
and it goes away. But eventually, that short film
43:20
of my own suicide. Played for every second of every
43:23
day for four months straight. It was on a perpetual Lube, and
43:27
it was like it was digging neural pathways into my brain to
43:30
the point where I could feel my feet actually hitting the
43:35
concrete. I could feel the feet underneath
43:39
me. I could feel the weight of the
43:41
gun in my hands. I could actually sometimes
43:46
challenge. It's all I would think about.
43:48
It just kept playing it. And even now I I have a It's
43:52
challenging for me to share the story.
43:55
I can taste the linen. There's a linen hood that I was
43:59
wearing, that black hood. I can taste it, and I can feel
44:02
the weight and the temperature of the gun in my mouth, and I
44:06
can actually feel the the bullet, believing my head.
44:10
It became so raw, so visceral, so real, that I would go to bed
44:17
at night begging. For the hand of death to kill me
44:21
in my sleep and I wake up disappointed at the light of the
44:24
new day. And that's when I began how I
44:28
was going to kill myself, to plan how I've killed myself.
44:31
And there's nobody you can talk to Craig in prison about that,
44:35
because if you tell anyone that you're going to the hole they're
44:39
going to. Evaluate.
44:40
You and and you're not going to stay in general population until
44:43
they decide if you aren't suicidal.
44:46
And that scared the hell out of me, because here I am at rock
44:50
bottom. But the man who was responsible
44:51
for all of it, and I hated that man.
44:54
I despised that man. The idea of being locked in
44:57
solitary with that individual was was not going to happen.
45:02
So I bottled it up and I smiled and pretended everything was
45:06
okay. And I started thinking, can I
45:09
can I hang myself in the woods? Can I hang myself in the gym?
45:13
You know, what options do I have?
45:16
To take my own life because I've got to make this stop.
45:20
It was driving me insane and I'll never forget it.
45:24
It was Wednesday afternoon and get an e-mail from my best
45:27
friend of over 30 years. His name is Sean says only one
45:29
thing. It's question said.
45:31
Hey man, can I come for a visit this weekend?
45:34
And I thought the visiting room is not monitored.
45:38
Sean has been my best friend for over 30 years.
45:40
I've shared everything with him. Yes, you can come for a visit.
45:46
It seems to take forever for Saturday to come around and
45:50
finally does. I watch him park his truck, make
45:53
a long walk up the hill, comes into the visiting room and we
45:56
hug and that's that. Hug alone had so much power to
46:00
it because there's no touches. So rare in prison.
46:04
You know, we'd fist bump each other and stuff like that, but
46:06
there's no real meaningful touch.
46:08
So even that hug was a really special moment.
46:12
Sean buys some food from the vending machine because as you
46:15
know, I can't actually touch money because that means I'd be
46:18
planning, I'd be planning an escape.
46:20
So I got to say like 812 E 27, right?
46:24
So we get our food and we sit down.
46:25
And I cannot tell you, Brent, how excited I am to to share
46:31
with Sean that things are not good, that I need help that I am
46:36
planning, I'm going to take my own life.
46:39
It was like such. Build up of excitement.
46:44
I was like I was a club soda bottle just walking around
46:46
getting shaken and that was actually going to be able to
46:48
twist the cap off. And I opened my mouth to speak
46:53
and before I can say a word the guy cuts me off.
46:55
He starts talking, he's getting a divorce.
46:58
He's got work issues, he's got money issues.
47:01
There's a sadness in Shawn's eyes and his voice and her 30
47:04
plus years of friendship I've never seen or heard and.
47:09
You know, if October 1st, 2013, the day the FBI called me and
47:13
arrested me, was the day my life changed.
47:16
This moment was the 2nd day my life changed because it was at
47:20
that moment that I realized that I had worth.
47:25
Outside of all the things that I had thought, I had always made
47:28
me worthy, I was not my cars. I was not my watches.
47:31
I was not my job title. I was a friend and nothing more.
47:36
Sean could have literally walked like 100 feet to his brother's
47:39
house because they live. They literally live like 100
47:41
feet away and they're really tight to share this with them.
47:44
Instead, he chose to drive 2 hours to come to federal prison.
47:49
Not even a fun place to visit, because he needed me, he needed
47:55
his friend. And that was the day my life
47:58
completely turned around, because I realized I had value
48:00
and worth outside of everything. Really powerful.
48:05
It was. And you know, I think one of the
48:08
most amazing parts about that story is I never told Sean all
48:15
the the terrible process I was having, I never shared with him
48:18
that I was planning how to tell myself that day.
48:21
I didn't share with him at all. He had no idea because I didn't
48:23
see nothing, just that alone. I was living in an absolute sea
48:28
of darkness. And Sean's visit was just that
48:30
pinpoint of light and that sometimes all that we need,
48:33
that's. What you needed?
48:35
Yeah, see your own value. Yeah, yeah.
48:40
So it was funny that night, you know, I went, I went to sleep
48:42
for the first time in like 4 plus months, not begging for the
48:45
hand of death to kill me. And I woke up the next morning.
48:48
It was not rainbows and unicorns because I was still in prison.
48:52
But I wasn't. I wasn't disappointed at the
48:54
light of a new day. And that's that's when I
48:57
realized I have an opportunity to transform this situation.
49:05
Into something meaningful and it it actually took on a weight of
49:08
almost like an obligation. Where I am obligated, I'm duty
49:13
bound, if you will, to transform this story into something
49:18
meaningful or someone else. Craig, did you?
49:23
I remember you told me you had someone that was like a mentor
49:27
to you in there and he when you were.
49:33
Talking back and forth, he put his arm around you and told you
49:35
that. Well, I'll let you tell the
49:37
story, but I thought it was and and and it is interesting how
49:42
there for me that the one of the most surprising things about
49:46
prison is I found that there was really.
49:50
Nice, good people in prison. You know it was like I was like
49:55
you great When I was standing at the gates of Leavenworth I
49:57
thought okay I'm going to I'm going to get raped and then I'm
50:01
going to get beaten up. Maybe I get beaten up first and
50:03
then I get raped and then I get killed.
50:05
You know the the the I don't know how what order that but it
50:08
was it was bad and and what the most surprising thing was is the
50:12
very first hour of being there people were trying to help me
50:17
and and it was it really, you know.
50:20
In my mind, you know for me it's it's almost life changing of I
50:24
never judge a book by its cover. I always want to hear the story.
50:29
I it's one of the greatest gifts that I was given from this
50:34
experience is perspective. And one of the aspects of that
50:39
perspective is I'm human. So I still judge that I try to
50:43
catch myself when I do, you know, I try to catch myself when
50:47
I do and say like. What's the story I'm making up
50:50
about this individual because because without the facts, it's
50:55
all stories and we got to live in the facts, not the story.
50:58
And so my, my two year point when I I had to check in at the
51:03
medium security facility adjacent to the camp, which is I
51:06
think fairly common. And you know, when I walk out of
51:10
the medium facility, it's hysterical to like see that rock
51:13
over there, like, yeah. Walk up to that rock, take a
51:16
right, You'll be at the camp. You'll be fine.
51:17
I looked at them like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
51:20
You go stay on the path, you won't get shot.
51:22
It's like, great. So walk up, you know, And I come
51:25
to the camp and what you said nailed it.
51:27
Some of the nicest, most genuine people.
51:29
Within a few minutes of my arrival, it's like, can we get
51:33
you here? Your shower shoes here are, you
51:35
know, your basic necessity. And one of the people that was
51:39
responsible for that was one of my mentors.
51:42
And his name was Ed. Well.
51:45
Ed, When I actually was getting my when I got my halfway house
51:49
date, and I was really excited for that because I wanted to go
51:52
to the halfway house because I wanted that case to freedom.
51:54
I wanted to, you know, get back into kind of the real world so I
51:59
get my date, which we don't know, It's kind of like a
52:01
crapshoot. And all of a sudden it's like,
52:03
hey Stanley, you got your date and it's such and such and just
52:06
like, OK, cool. And word spreads, I'm sure, you
52:09
know, word spreads like Crazy Smiley's going to be leaving on,
52:12
you know, the 14th or whatever day it was.
52:15
And so I like, this is so great. This is so awesome.
52:18
This is holy crap, I'm going back into the real world.
52:22
I don't have a job fully lined up yet.
52:24
I'm basically homeless. I have, I'm getting divorced.
52:28
Who's going to date a felon? Who's going to hire a felon?
52:32
You know, I didn't come out and say this, but I was kind of
52:34
thinking about it like, I hate being here.
52:35
Prison sucks. But it's a roof in three
52:38
squares, you know. What am I going to do when I get
52:41
on? Now think about all the
52:42
obligations of being on the outside, right?
52:45
It's it's you know, it's all of that stuff disappears for a
52:49
little bit and you know, people do what they do with their time
52:51
and they choose to. I did all that inner work, but
52:53
now sudden I've got to go back in the real world, right?
52:56
Am I going to be able to do all this dinner work on the outside
52:59
when I've got a job that, you know, hopefully get that job
53:01
that takes up X amount of hours? All these fears are coming
53:05
through my head. The reality of the situation is
53:08
making itself very clear to me. And Ed and I are walking down
53:12
the hallway of the educational building at Otisville, and he
53:16
says, so you got a date, How you feeling?
53:18
And I expressed almost everything that I just shared
53:21
with you. You know, don't have a house,
53:23
don't have a career, Who's going to date a phone?
53:25
I have no money. What the hell am I going to do?
53:27
And he put his arm around me. You know, in a very fatherly
53:31
manner and again that touches so special and just looks me in the
53:35
eyes and, says Craig, You have a blank canvas, You can paint
53:40
whatever picture you want. And The funny thing is, I have
53:46
an opportunity to have lunch with an author who I greatly
53:51
admire, Kamal Ravikan. Anybody listening?
53:53
Check out his books. They were instrumental in
53:55
rebuilding and reinventing my life after prison.
53:58
Cannot recommend them enough. I emailed Kamal from the
54:02
Brooklyn halfway house and I smuggled, smuggled in the iPhone
54:05
because we weren't allowed to have, you know, fronts of
54:07
cameras or Internet access. Right.
54:09
So I emailed him from there explaining a little bit about my
54:13
story. And he says, you know, you
54:15
mentioned in the city, like New York City, I'd love to meet up
54:18
with you. And I said I would, you know, Oh
54:20
my God, this is amazing. So we end up having lunch.
54:23
And I share that story with him about Ed saying you have a blank
54:26
canvas. And I had already shared with
54:28
Kamal that I was writing a book and he looks at me and he goes,
54:31
Craig and that's the title of your book.
54:35
I tilt my head like a confused dog and I'm like, oh, and he
54:38
goes blank canvas how I His original subtitle was how I
54:43
recreated my life after prison. He goes, that's your title.
54:47
That's your subtitle. That's going to get you on CNN.
54:51
And it was like such a cool moment.
54:53
I I. I ran with that and I turned,
54:56
recreated and reinvented because I thought that was a more
54:58
appropriate name. But that's how the title of the
55:01
book came and you know I want to.
55:03
Such a cool story. I want to share some.
55:05
Thank you so much. You know, I want to share
55:07
something As you were, as you were talking earlier, something
55:11
came to me where you talked about the bottom falling, right?
55:14
And you talked about being in that room and trying to grasp
55:16
the walls. My analogy, the way I felt it
55:19
was I was in a in a hole in the earth and I was grasping at
55:22
roots and the roots just kept coming out.
55:25
I just couldn't find a firm one until I hit bottom.
55:29
But I think and the platform that you provide for people to
55:33
share these stories, I'm curious if we all kind of have the same
55:36
thing we have that falling right but then there's it's not an
55:40
overnight day there's those steps that go up and and saying
55:45
you have a blank canvas. You can paint whatever picture
55:48
you want. That just shifted my entire
55:51
perspective and gave me opportunity.
55:53
Where there was moments ago, like 0 Hope that was a step up.
55:58
Kamal giving me the titles of the book because I couldn't the
56:00
life of me come up with one another step up.
56:03
So when we look at all of these things and kind of map them out,
56:08
we can see there was, you know, the steps down and there are the
56:12
steps up. And I think that's really cool.
56:14
You have to open up your mind and see it.
56:17
I know we've only got a few minutes left because you got a
56:19
hard break to go away, Craig. What all these things that you
56:25
have, you got, you got a brilliant mind and then you're
56:27
using it to to help people. What do you think's your biggest
56:31
take away through this whole experience of yours?
56:36
Going to be really hard to narrow down to one, but I think
56:39
for the purpose of. Your platform and the amazing
56:43
message that you are conveying through this podcast is anybody
56:49
listening. Your past cannot define you
56:54
without your consent. I love that.
56:59
That's strong and that's about choices, right?
57:03
And that's a choice. It's all about choices and.
57:09
You know, I would. Look, I mean you and I feel like
57:12
we could have Part 2, cuz that was, you know, understanding,
57:15
you know, all the choices that are available to us.
57:18
And it's everything's a choice. Everything is a choice.
57:24
Craig, if people want to get a hold of you, I know you've got
57:27
Craig stanlin.com. What are the ways should people
57:32
reach out and find you? You can find me on LinkedIn and
57:36
Instagram. I'm posting content every day
57:39
that I hope is of value to check on my Ted Talk, How I learned my
57:42
greatest Worth in Federal Prison and Blank Canvas.
57:46
How I Reinvented My Life After Prison is available on Amazon
57:49
and Barnes and Noble. And if you can find it on Barnes
57:52
and Noble and and Amazon, there's also nightmares, Sex,
57:56
success. So we both got books.
57:57
Just go there and get them both. Get them both.
58:01
Get them both and and folks for people whether you listen on
58:06
Spotify or or Apple or wherever you listen go there leave a
58:10
review. It puts the IT puts the the show
58:13
on steroids when you do that. I love that When people do that
58:16
hit the follow button too and if you want to know and get it to
58:21
know any more about what I've got going on is Sprint
58:23
cassie.com Ty not DY and. Share the show.
58:29
If you got anything out of this today, share it.
58:30
Share it. Share it.
58:32
As I used to say to my people when I was writing my emails
58:36
back and forth from prison, stay strong.
58:38
I'll do the same. Craig Stanfield, thanks so much
58:40
for sharing your story today. It's just an awesome story.
58:44
Thank you so much for having me on.
58:46
I loved our conversation and again, acknowledging you for
58:49
creating this podcast and having a platform for people to share
58:53
these stories because that's where we connect as humans.
58:57
And it's so important, so thank you.
58:59
Thank you, Craig. Now I'm our success in and out.
59:03
See you all later.