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The Ownership Mentality Every CEO Wishes Their Team Had · Speak In Flow

• 0:01
  Melinda Lee: Welcome to the Speak and Flow podcast, where we help CEOs build leadership teams to move forward together, and I believe that communication is not a soft skill. It is how the company grows, and so by communicating consistently, confidently what truly matters, your teams and your organizations will thrive.
• 0:23
  Melinda Lee: Today's conversation is all around how do we help people really take ownership
• 0:30
  Melinda Lee: of business outcomes when they're so comfortable behind the desk, or where they're so comfortable in their own domain. And the reason why this is so important is because in our world today, there's so many challenges, so many problems, and also our organizations, and so it really requires that everybody steps up.
• 0:48
  Melinda Lee: And I have the perfect, perfect leader to talk about this. She just makes all of us better. And I am so excited for the conversation. Her name is Christine Simmons. She is just a fabulous entrepreneur, strategist, and a recovering C-suite executive. I'm so excited for the conversation. Welcome, Christine.
• 1:10
  Christine Simmons: Melinda, thank you so much for having me. What an amazing platform. I'm so excited for this conversation. This is what I love. This is my jam. So I'm excited.
• 1:19
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 1:19
  Christine Simmons: You know, the how people lead and how we get teams excited towards outcomes. That's amazing. I look forward to it.
• 1:26
  Melinda Lee: Thank you. So I'm going to jump right in. And so there is a busy CEO or leader out there who has stopped and said, I want to listen to this recording. And so, what do you hope could change in this person's life or in the way that they lead by listening to what you're about to tell them?
• 1:45
  Christine Simmons: Oh my goodness. Well, first and foremost, thank you. Thank you for being here, because we know how crazy our schedules are, and for most C-suite executives.
• 1:54
  Christine Simmons: We have to get things done. One of my nicknames, and I'll give you the PG-13 version, is TBTGSD, the beauty that gets stuff done. The beauty and the stuff sometimes are replaced by other things, but that being said, we have to actually execute. We have to get things done. We're talking about outcomes.
• 2:11
  Christine Simmons: Outcomes don't happen without the execution, right, of the vision. And so I just wanna thank the folks that stopped by because hopefully you'll take away some tactical things. This isn't this isn't a TED Talk. This isn't the inspirational message that we we wanna inspire, but I wanna inspire you so that way you leave this and you're like, oh, let me figure out this way that I can tactically employ some of these things and do what I like to call operationalizing.
• 2:36
  Christine Simmons: So when we hear these things, what are those specific?
• 2:38
  Melinda Lee: Hmm.
• 2:39
  Christine Simmons: tactics, how do we change the words that we say, even in anything that's considered a soft skill? And at this point, I really will talk about that a little bit. I think sociology degrees and psychology degrees and anthropology degrees are just as important as MBAs these days in business, because we need to understand psyche.
• 2:57
  Christine Simmons: But that being said, you know, this is now a hard skill. We came from KPIs and all of that to what are the feelings that then drive the execution and operationalize it so we get those KPIs. We can't just jump to the KPIs without all of this thought and strategy and then actual application. So, that's what I hope people get out of it, and I'm really excited to talk about it.
• 3:18
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, I love it. So take the good out of the community. What did you say? Take the.
• 3:24
  Christine Simmons: Operationalize the good.
• 3:26
  Melinda Lee: Operationalize the good, I like that, I like that. And so, for the audience, can you share more about what you do? You're such a passionate person, you're doing so much, so yeah, share more about that.
• 3:38
  Christine Simmons: So, I've always been on the business side of sports and entertainment and
• 3:43
  Christine Simmons: The funniest part about it is that I don't even have a business degree. I don't have my MBA. I'm pretty much self taught. But that being said, my degree is actually in physiological sciences. I was going to be pre med. I was going to be a doctor. We were going to go save the world. These days, the solutions that I create are business solutions, and so that same scientific approach, wrapped in the empathy that doctors utilize every single day, is how I try to
• 4:07
  Christine Simmons: approach business. So first, it has to start with the empathy. It has to start with the heart. It has to start with the passion. I am a firm believer of there is very much a place.
• 4:18
  Christine Simmons: for love in all of its forms in the workplace. You have to have a love for the outcome, a love for what you do, a love for the skill set, and just a love for humanity in general, right? Because at the end of the day, we're all creating these business solutions, I hope, to improve humanity. That's me and my little naivete.
• 4:39
  Christine Simmons: So what I do on a daily basis is.
• 4:41
  Christine Simmons: Help not only create the vision and the strategy, but also the operations, the execution, the tactics that get us there. And then how do we also translate between the two? I've always been a really good translator in my world. So how do I translate between the creative CEO's vision and the engineers and the technology that needs to be able to put that in place so we can actually see the CEO's vision?
• 5:06
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, this leads me to a really good… the next question, which is, we have a CEO out there, they have visions, they have, you know, big missions, they have a lot to accomplish, and then we have all of our experts. They're good at their domains, they're really good at their jobs, and then now, it's like, how do we…
• 5:24
  Melinda Lee: They might be really loving their jobs, like you said, it's about that empathy and the love for the job and the skill set, but then as a leader and as an organization, especially with all the change, we might be asked to do a lot of things. Like, we might be asked to stretch outside of our job description, like, maybe you might be needing to go present to clients now. Maybe you need to go to networking events when you are the technical
• 5:49
  Melinda Lee: engineer. Like, how do we help them to, as a leader, want, you know, build these skills or like a type of ownership that you are a part of this company and a part of the business outcomes?
• 6:01
  Christine Simmons: Yeah. And we're seeing more and more, like we're even seeing corporate employees become the social media influencers.
• 6:08
  Melinda Lee: question.
• 6:09
  Christine Simmons: effective approach. And so instead of going paying a stranger to see.
• 6:13
  Melinda Lee: the.
• 6:14
  Christine Simmons: about my brand, I'm actually going to go pay my IT person to talk about their experience here and what it means. And then it gives a kind of irreverent approach to something cute that you're doing. And yes, it's a trend, but it actually really talks to the humanity of the employee. And I think to your point, as a CEO, there's a couple things that, and, or the leader, and again, talking
• 6:38
  Christine Simmons: Title aside, but generally, you know, it's these folks in the C suite. You know, I used to have this like really big ego, like, well, I told you what the thing is. This is the vision. That's the KPI. What are you not getting?
• 6:49
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 6:50
  Christine Simmons: What is it? And I.
• 6:51
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 6:52
  Christine Simmons: Stop and be like, okay, look, and I use this analogy a lot. If I was a songwriter or an artist, and I had first a message that I really felt everybody needed to hear, you know, in a song, maybe you like the acoustic version, and maybe I like the 90s hip-hop version, and maybe someone likes the country version. The lyrics are still the same.
• 7:14
  Christine Simmons: I'm still going to get the $2.99 that you're going to pay to download my song, and you're going to receive it a lot better than you would have if you only heard it in that genre of music. The same goes for how we communicate our desired outcomes in the workplace.
• 7:31
  Christine Simmons: You have to understand and meet your employees where you are, and that means getting to know them. So you can't just be behind your desk and being that siloed, elusive visionary. Right? You have to really understand because a lot of times, their lived experiences as that IT person, as that person in post production, they one of my dear friends that I worked with at the academy, Sean Finney, used to say, there are whole ass humans outside of
• 7:56
  Christine Simmons: of the work, right? We're whole ass humans. And so.
• 8:00
  Melinda Lee: Right, right, right.
• 8:00
  Christine Simmons: What I do in all of my many lives that I live outside of my day-to-day will actually contribute value and thus a different, more innovative, more creative, faster to market outcome. If one, I know that my leader cares about me and then thus is interested in what I'm doing, allows me to bring those personal tactically. What are the personal passions that you could bring? They may not know that Christine actually has a clothing line outside of the organization.
• 8:25
  Christine Simmons: And that I love, I do hand painted jackets, true story. And that's part of my clothing line, right? And I also launched an app on styling because fashion and all of that is my creative output, even though I am day to day with you creating strategic business plans and operational structures. So the way I approach that, and because you're also interested in your care, I might then want to share a little bit more.
• 8:50
  Christine Simmons: And that.
• 8:51
  Melinda Lee: need.
• 8:51
  Christine Simmons: Some more insight. So tactically, sit with your employees.
• 8:55
  Melinda Lee: Mmm.
• 8:55
  Christine Simmons: Understand who they are. Early on, I and I'm such a type a. I'd be like, hey. I need the thing. And then I would finally stop and go back to the front.
• 9:03
  Christine Simmons: Hey, Melinda, how are you doing? How is that daughter doing in soccer? You know, that type of thing. And it's not that it that I don't care. It was just we're all so busy trying to get things done and check things off our list.
• 9:14
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 9:15
  Christine Simmons: But if you do that without the empathy, then you're not going to get the same result that you would before. So and not only do do does Melinda now know that I care, but now she's like, actually, as I was driving my daughter to to to I was talking to another soccer mom, and this solution for this particular business problem actually kinda came to mind as a different approach.
• 9:34
  Melinda Lee: internet.
• 9:35
  Christine Simmons: So schedule those moments of time with your employees so you understand who they are as a human. Now, that doesn't mean you get ownership of it. You do own that person outside. And that doesn't even mean that I necessarily am obligated to give that to you as your employee. And if you have that healthy respect for their privacy and their private life, but also touching their passions on how they want to grow their
• 10:00
  Christine Simmons: career. So create that plan. Okay, what is something outside of the workplace that you think that you do, that you've experienced in your lived experiences that you think actually could help us here? And then.
• 10:12
  Christine Simmons: Don't be shy about paying them for that IP, or their name and likeness, or those types of things. Take it out of your marketing budget. So those are just some little tactical things on how you… because people say, you need to care about your employees. Okay, great. Well, what does that look like? How do I typically execute that, right?
• 10:29
  Melinda Lee: 8.
• 10:30
  Christine Simmons: And then also, how do I not violate that? So that's one. And then the other is, I always sports analogy, block, tackle, and get out of the way. It's not about you. It's never if you're a leader, it's never been about you. It's been about the mission.
• 10:44
  Christine Simmons: It's been about the impact, then it's about your employees, and then it ultimately is a reflection of you. It's not about you, it's a reflection of you. And thus, when you have a leader that's passionate.
• 10:57
  Christine Simmons: And then, but that passion, that culture, that way of doing things is only there when that leader is there, then you're not really leading. You're just a personality. You're not a leader, right? A leader could do those things.
• 11:09
  Christine Simmons: Execute and entrust their their team and then walk away, and it even thrives and grows bigger. And the leader is just as excited about that growth as they would.
• 11:19
  Melinda Lee: Oh my gosh.
• 11:20
  Christine Simmons: There every single day.
• 11:21
  Melinda Lee: You're singing my praises, you're singing, and, and, and how much of that is tied to the, the communication, the trust.
• 11:31
  Melinda Lee: the connection to the direction, and then how much I want to contribute as an employee.
• 11:37
  Christine Simmons: It's almost everything, right? Just because I am…
• 11:42
  Christine Simmons: And we see it all the time. I used to have to do town halls myself. Right? So you're on a town hall. You're either in front of people in real life or you're on a webinar and you're delivering the state of the union. Right? Just because I delivered that message much like the music analogy earlier does not mean it was transmitted, does not mean it was received. Right? So but you can say, oh, no. We told everybody. We notified everybody that this is the desired outcome and that this is where we're going.
• 12:06
  Christine Simmons: But we didn't really have the buy in, the interaction, the engagement. And most importantly, what is their role in that? How do they see themselves, especially in a large organization? Your role might feel like it's this tiny, small role. But one of the things that I always love to see is when I'm talking with those employees who may have a siloed role or maybe they're newer to the organization and they feel like they're not as important.
• 12:31
  Christine Simmons: or what you do isn't important. And a lot of times leaders are so busy, they're like, I don't have time to tell you why and the why of all of this and da da da da. But that's really what it means because you have a job and then your job grows and your scope grows. And now you're not only responsible for your job, but you're responsible for the outcome of maybe that project. Then the project grows into a department and a division and then into an organization. So the whole thing about leadership is…
• 12:56
  Christine Simmons: Again, it's not about you here. It's been about you, what you're doing every single day. Now I have to consider this outcome, but I also have to consider that outcome over there. If I wait until this person has gotten here, here, and here to be able to help them understand how important that small piece is in this big, big picture of what we're doing, not only at this company, but the ecosystem all around. When I was team president
• 13:21
  Christine Simmons: and chief operator of the Sparks, chief operating officer of the Sparks, I would often talk about the overall ecosystem. People would come with the question, why aren't the players being paid equitably, right? So this is 2013, 14 when I started and shot out to my girl, Nneka Agumake, who led the negotiations around the new CBA for the WNBA and the whole, everybody who has been a part.
• 13:45
  Christine Simmons: of this groundbreaking new collective bargaining agreement. But, you know, they weren't getting paid what they were getting paid now. That wasn't done then. And so that was always that question. I was like, well, not only do you have to look at, okay, well, what is, what does the pay look like for the team? But what's going on with the league? But then beyond the league, what are the media deals? What are the sponsorship deals? What are the venue deals? What is the city doing to support women's sports? And if you are the marketing person at a small team.
• 14:10
  Christine Simmons: team or a WNBA team and you're not even being educated, finding out that information or your leader isn't helping you understand the ups and downs and all around of how this one marketing campaign could affect the team, league, ecosystem, overall gender equality, if you will, right?
• 14:30
  Christine Simmons: Then you're not going to be as passionate as.
• 14:32
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Christine Simmons: that social media post goes or doesn't go, right? Yeah. If you if I'm like, okay, I know you've been working on this post that edit. I know you feel like I've been nitpicky and I've had 18 edits of this one thing, but let me tell you why.
• 14:45
  Christine Simmons: The why is because if I show that one young girl for five more seconds in that or two more seconds in that versus cutting her out completely, I'm actually cutting out an entire generation of future fans. If I don't have that two second piece and I cut out an entire generation of future fans, then those little girls aren't asking their moms and dads to take them to the game.
• 15:08
  Christine Simmons: So on and so on and so on and so on. So the more you can tie that one little tactic to how it impacts on each and every level, then you're able to help them buy in. And once they buy in, now and and it's funny because as people grow in their careers, and I've been I've done this as well, like, I've done all this. I've driven these KPIs. I've helped grow this business. It's making all this money. It's profitable now.
• 15:32
  Christine Simmons: I should have equity, right? And so I want to go and ask for equity. And, you know, it didn't happen in the beginning. And so it's the transactions, the KPIs are fantastic. And those are the steps that help. But you have to have an ownership mentality. There's owner, there's a mentality of equity before you get to the cap table. And so that's how we get them from the transactional tactical every day of their job to help them understand the ownership mentality.
• 15:57
  Christine Simmons: And once you have that ownership mentality, then your KPIs are actually affecting not only what you're doing here, but everything on each level. And then that's when you really understand what an ownership mentality is, even if you don't have ownership yet.
• 16:10
  Melinda Lee: Well, so you so you did all that. You, helped the company grow through these KPIs, and you're still in your mind not completely feeling like you're, like, that had that ownership mentality yet?
• 16:20
  Christine Simmons: Yeah. Sometimes I mean, it depends. Right? It depends on the role and where I was in my career and the mentality. Yeah. In the beginning, it you know, I'm I present I present younger than I am, Melinda. So, you know, at this big age of 51, when I started my career, like, you know, it was early, and it was KPIs, KPIs.
• 16:37
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Christine Simmons: It's on the board. That's it. And so.
• 16:39
  Melinda Lee: Point in the way.
• 16:41
  Christine Simmons: I got to get these points up. I got to give them a points up. And so I'd be like, well, I did the job. I hit the mark. I overachieved on the mark. Like I grew revenue, but I maybe was more transactional in my mentality.
• 16:51
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 16:53
  Christine Simmons: Understanding the full ecosystem as an owner on a cap table would.
• 16:56
  Melinda Lee: I really… I really loved that. I really loved how you paint that picture of, like, having, like, you know, where I am at, and how I… how does it impact my team? How does it impact the organization? And then how does it impact the whole community, and… and maybe even the world, right? Like, how… I mean, it's just really each… all of us do have that level of
• 17:15
  Melinda Lee: If we wanted to, that level of impact and that level of opportunity, if we had that intention to tie it back to everything that we do.
• 17:25
  Christine Simmons: And I think it's interesting, Linda, because I think we have this beautiful generational aspect where we can we can pull from so many different generations. I think us late millennials and and Gen Xers are really a beautiful bridge between the two between like our boomers and then our Gen Z's and our our new leaders coming up because they already they come in with an ownership mentality without any points on the board, which I.
• 17:47
  Melinda Lee: one.
• 17:48
  Christine Simmons: The audacity of it. And it's fantastic. Blow it up. I can do this. I can run my own company. I can have an empire. And I haven't even had my first job. I am here for the boldness. I am here for the audacity. I wish that I had that much audacity and confidence.
• 18:02
  Melinda Lee: it's.
• 18:03
  Christine Simmons: myself when I was younger, right? And then over here, you have the folks who are like, pay your dues.
• 18:08
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 18:09
  Christine Simmons: And so what we have to do then is like, instead of saying, and I heard this once, you know, instead of saying, pay your dues, you have to say, Well, did you actually experience a scenario where your supplier was unable to deliver X, Y and Z in the timeline? And then how did you respond to the client? And then how did you retain the client, and how did you fix the problem? Have you gone through that experience yet? Because then that will help you understand what it means to
• 18:34
  Christine Simmons: own and run this company. And then now it gives you, it matches the audacity with tactical, you know, experiences. And so again, as we go back as our leaders, whatever generation you are, being able to translate, right? So just because I said you have to pay your dues, again, I'm transmitting a message that doesn't necessarily mean that I might even be offended by that. Like, what do you mean pay my dues? I know what I did. Like, you know, someone might have a negative reaction.
• 18:59
  Christine Simmons: Instead, be very, tactical and give examples of this… this is a scenario that I had to experience that was… and each one is going to be different, because it's going to be a different timeframe, it's going to be a different scenario, the world is going to have a new technology that you might have to respond to. So giving, you know, those folks specific examples
• 19:19
  Christine Simmons: of how to understand the tactical execution and the KPIs that they need to reach.
• 19:24
  Melinda Lee: welcome.
• 19:24
  Christine Simmons: While helping this side understand that, yes, we can disrupt, we can have audacity, we can think like an owner, even when we're not an owner, and be able to kind of bridge the gap between, I think, is a critical thing that will help this multi-generational next.
• 19:39
  Melinda Lee: wait.
• 19:40
  Christine Simmons: wave of employees that are all coming back to the office after work from home to be able to really move the needle on a larger and more impactful scale for the organization.
• 19:51
  Melinda Lee: And we can't see them as one, you know, one subset or one group. It's like you really have to, like you said, get to know where the person's at.
• 19:58
  Christine Simmons: You do. And then they're willing to volunteer more. Like if you actually ask me how I'm doing, I.
• 20:04
  Melinda Lee: actually.
• 20:05
  Christine Simmons: I might tell you how I'm doing, right? So those kind of everyday humanity things can easily be translated into the workplace.
• 20:11
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 20:11
  Christine Simmons: And, you know, we just have to bring the calm to the chaos as leaders. That's another thing that we have to do.
• 20:16
  Melinda Lee: Right, oh my gosh, I mean, you're so experienced, and I just really appreciate your time, and you've been in entertainment, you've been in sports, entrepreneur, strategist, executive, and so I, I mean, I'm just curious, like, with your story, can you share, like.
• 20:31
  Melinda Lee: You know, just maybe a story, how you got to where you're at, and what is, like, some… what are some tips that you would give, like, leaders, emerging leaders today?
• 20:41
  Christine Simmons: Oh, thank you for that. It's mine is nontraditional. Right? So as I mentioned, self taught, always that through like, I I found out what I was good at. Right? And that's solving problems and translating, as I I talked about earlier, between departments, between people, between cultures, between Yeah.
• 20:58
  Christine Simmons: hard and soft skills, the translation of it, the actual skill set of solving the problem. And in these later years, tapping more into the creativity of business and being a creative business person, if you will. So that way we can not have a linear path every single time because my career wasn't linear. So, you know, but yet in retrospect, it all looks
• 21:23
  Christine Simmons: the same, or it all makes sense, if you will. So, for me, it's always the business side of sports and entertainment with a through-line of equity and economic empowerment, so that way we can really use our wealth and power for good in the world, and operationalizing the good, and so…
• 21:40
  Christine Simmons: the majority of my career was authentic interactions with people, not networking, because honestly, I am… I am that one that would much rather stand on the wall, talk to my friends, and not, like, have to be like, hi, I'm Christine! Like, I… oh my god, that gives me anxiety, right? And I've had to do it, so I've created tools for myself.
• 22:00
  Christine Simmons: So then I'm better at it, but I don't like it, and I'm still, you know, working on it. And so for me, it's always like, okay. Who do who do I need to be in this space and place or what you know, how do we wanna do it, and what can I offer first?
• 22:12
  Christine Simmons: What can I how can I add value before I'm asking for something in return? And I employed that in my career. So for instance.
• 22:18
  Christine Simmons: I met Urban Magic Johnson, at UCLA. He was playing pickup ball in the off-season at a gym there, and I happened to be working there, at the time, and I approached him, and then that began, you know, our professional relationship, and, you know, him becoming a mentor for me, and we found common ground, and as amazing, and even then, back then, again.
• 22:40
  Christine Simmons: my age, we used to have, like, these three… he used to throw this party every week, no, what was it? I think it was Memorial Day weekend, it was like a three-day weekend, it was a place to be. I would never ask for anything, I wouldn't ask for Laker tickets, I wouldn't ask for a party, like, I wouldn't ask for anything from Infat. I worked for him in two different occasions.
• 22:56
  Christine Simmons: And I seldom asked him for anything. And my first major interaction with him is when I was working at Disney, and we had an opportunity, an RFP that was going to bid, and he had one of his portfolio companies was, you know, a perfect competitor for it. So I made him aware of it. And just as I coached all my suppliers, I would help them through, you know, what that process is, and so they could compete. He competed, he won, and then that then
• 23:20
  Christine Simmons: he recruited me to come work for him. So, before I even ever asked Urban for anything, I provided opportunities to help that person shine, and so that then allowed him to create a job for me and recruit me, and so every job that I had up until.
• 23:38
  Christine Simmons: my role as chief operating officer for the academy was just that. It was literally either it was created, it was networked, it was all of those things and all with the blessing and the loving like, yes, go do this thing, you know, from my supervisor at the time. And so my career, you know, always had that through line. And I always tell people, what are you good at? What can you get paid for? Some problems, skill set, that type of thing.
• 24:03
  Christine Simmons: Operationalizing things, vision.
• 24:06
  Christine Simmons: What industries do you like to do it in and why? For me, it's sports and entertainment, but the why is what's as important. It's not because it's sexy and celebrity. I'm not that person. I grew up in Southern California and I've had the blessing and honor to engage with.
• 24:20
  Christine Simmons: A-listers and all-stars and Hall of Famers, and I call some of them friends, that net… their, accolades always made me proud of them, but not in a fan way. And so I'm not… it's not the sexiness of the industry, it is the platform that it gives those folks. And so now I have a built-in platform that my message, my entity, my empire.
• 24:45
  Christine Simmons: Is being built on based on who I am. And now we're starting to see it in the corporate space like this with folks who are actually understanding their platforms and so that I can, you know, elevate my platform. But typically in corporate, it's like you have to go through the hierarchy.
• 24:59
  Christine Simmons: And…
• 25:00
  Christine Simmons: The trajectory is so much slower and so tiny, so many tiny incremental pieces. And then moreover, people get in these large titled spaces and places and stay there forever. Right?
• 25:14
  Melinda Lee: instead.
• 25:14
  Christine Simmons: But with sports and entertainment, these individuals have built the platform on their and on one of the talents that they have, and now they can leapfrog that trajectory in an exponential way to be able to create entities and empires and organizations that create jobs in a more impactful and meaningful way. So the industry that I love to play in is sports and entertainment. Right? But there's always finance and capital.
• 25:38
  Christine Simmons: And so investments and strategies is always critical right there. And so that's also an industry that I love playing in. And then there's the heart. So there's three categories. What do you go to? What do you get paid for? The industry you want to do it in, and then the why. Sometimes we need the I always need to give back. And when it wasn't happening in my job, when my job was more like, right?
• 25:57
  Christine Simmons: we're hunting, we're killing, we're selling, we're, you know, we're doing the thing, it's more transactional, then I would go and do non-profit work. I would do… I would sit on boards, I would volunteer myself. Until then, I could figure out how to put that into my career as well. And I think for each future leader or existing leader.
• 26:14
  Christine Simmons: There's going to be chapters and seasons of each of these things, right?
• 26:17
  Melinda Lee: the.
• 26:18
  Christine Simmons: You just got I gotta pay this. I'm I have a 15-year-old Hooper who is for those sports parents out there, youth youth sports is very expensive. I gotta pay for that stuff. So, you know, this is what I'm gonna get paid for. Ideally, I'll do it in this industry, and ideally, I'll be able to do that and actually do some good in the world as well. And so as you're leading, figure out what those things are and then what this chapter means for you, what you plan to get out of it. New opportunity, make a checklist.
• 26:43
  Christine Simmons: And that way you can look back and say, I was successful in that chapter.
• 26:47
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I love it. And then you're going from the heart, you're going from… but I loved how you also said, like, I'm giving, I'm giving, I'm… no matter what role I am in, I'm using my strengths.
• 26:57
  Melinda Lee: And I'm finding where someone can ask for support or need support, and how can I use my strengths, and how can I use my strength to, you know, help other people, and… and then it all has this connection and weave, beautifully together, and so…
• 27:10
  Melinda Lee: I mean, and when you come from that space, and you get in alignment, you're gonna have a lot of different opportunities.
• 27:16
  Christine Simmons: refer.
• 27:16
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:18
  Christine Simmons: To reframe that title isn't leadership. Right? Yeah. Everybody said that for years on it. A very, very good test that I always love to do is I throw a piece of trash down in the middle of the room.
• 27:30
  Christine Simmons: And I wait to see who picks it up.
• 27:33
  Melinda Lee: Mmm, I love that. I love that. Little.
• 27:37
  Christine Simmons: A piece of trash where everybody can walk by it. Everybody's going to see it.
• 27:40
  Melinda Lee: I did that the other day. I picked up the someone that I was at the golf course, and then the piece of paper flew by, like, 20 people, and then it did fly by me. I was like, I'm gonna go walk over there and pick it up and throw it away.
• 27:56
  Christine Simmons: Yes.
• 27:56
  Melinda Lee: that person.
• 27:58
  Christine Simmons: But, you know, and what people don't realize is that you're solving a problem that's not your job. You're making it better for the people after you. And so.
• 28:06
  Christine Simmons: People in your workplace have a mentality that they're going to just continue to walk by that piece of trash and not pick it up. Yeah. Then they're not leadership material. That doesn't mean they can't lead projects. Yeah. There's some project leaders that aren't people leaders, and I think that's another very important distinction. Just because someone's a project leader and not a people leader doesn't mean that they're, they can't be invaluable to your organization, but put them where they have strengths and that should be part of your performance evaluations and your analysis.
• 28:31
  Christine Simmons: So that way you can determine, okay, because if you put a project leader who's not a people leader over people, now you have a multiplier effect in the negative way, and because now they're not leading people in a way in which those people will respond to, so therefore, just because they have
• 28:48
  Christine Simmons: put KPIs and points on the board for their projects doesn't necessarily mean they need to lead, but that also doesn't mean it needs to limit their career. So I think we have to also reframe our HR titles and scopes and all of those things, because we always talk about what do we, you know, strengths and weaknesses, and these are your weaknesses, this is what you need to work on. Sure, let's make sure that it, at best, my weaknesses aren't a negative effect on the organization. But if my strengths are way up here.
• 29:13
  Christine Simmons: And then it can take it even farther up here. Right, right. Then I would spend more time 'cause you're gonna get more reward for this than you are with trying to fix something that maybe it might not even be able to be fixed. Right. And so if you have a, a seven foot center on your team and, well, analogy this day in basketball because there's positionless basketball, but.
• 29:32
  Christine Simmons: let's say you had a 7-foot center who couldn't handle the ball really well, and you put them at point guard, they're going to be less successful than if you took a real point guard and put them at point guard. So how do you win the championship? By playing on people's strengths and helping to enhance those, and support those, and resource those, and capitalize those, and if you see that the IT person, might have a gift of gab, even though they're behind a computer.
• 29:55
  Christine Simmons: as you alluded to in the beginning, let's get them to the conference, let's have them engage, let's tap into that personality. If they don't, don't force it.
• 30:03
  Melinda Lee: And so, what are the parting words? What is one rule or one, takeaway that you would like the CEO, who is trying to lift everybody up, who is trying to build more ownership across all of their jobs, what would you, share with them right now?
• 30:20
  Christine Simmons: Think about one… let's reverse engineer, right? So we have the outcomes and the desired KPIs that we want the organization.
• 30:30
  Christine Simmons: And I would even take it a step further in that how does that then impact the world in a good way if that's the type of organization you have? And I'm sure there's lots of different types of businesses in the world. I think everybody could probably find a good tie to humanity somewhere.
• 30:44
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 30:45
  Christine Simmons: I hope somewhere…
• 30:45
  Melinda Lee: So, yes.
• 30:46
  Christine Simmons: And so how does that how does your organization contribute good in the world? And then once you take that, then you distill it down and down and down and start giving like, each job should have this is how like, your job descriptions maybe now we add it at the bottom. This is how you will contribute to the good of society in the world, and that's Yeah.
• 31:06
  Melinda Lee: the.
• 31:07
  Christine Simmons: description in a tangible way.
• 31:09
  Christine Simmons: Because we have to stop talking about the job description and the checkboxes that we're gonna do and the tasks that we're gonna do every day. How do we want both the employee and our stakeholders or our clients or our consumers or our audiences to feel? And how do we want what do we want the actions to be as a result of those feelings? So I'll give you the example of social media.
• 31:31
  Christine Simmons: People will post a social media post.
• 31:33
  Christine Simmons: And they'll just post it because…
• 31:35
  Christine Simmons: they want you to know or they want you to see. If you see my post and you like it, that says, "Okay, I like what I see, Christine. You look great today." Right? If you get in my comments and you're like, "Oh, those shoes were phenomenal. Okay, Giuseppe." Right? And now you're it's more of you talking about you're an expert on fashion. You know shoes. I recognize that. I have style. I understand designers.
• 32:00
  Christine Simmons: I understand fall seasons. So that is so when you any action you do, you have to see, okay, is this a reflection of the company, of me, of the individual? Is it a reflection of the action I want them to take in order to get the outcome?
• 32:15
  Christine Simmons: Don't do things just to do things. What are the feelings? What is the action we want those feelings to do? Right.
• 32:22
  Melinda Lee: Right.
• 32:22
  Christine Simmons: tie that to the KPIs, and then tie that in the good in the world. Never leave it as the old school parent, because I said so. Like, we can't do that anymore, right? And I know we're busy, and I know we don't always have time to explain.
• 32:35
  Melinda Lee: Okay.
• 32:36
  Christine Simmons: But if you have made the commitment to hire this person.
• 32:39
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 32:40
  Christine Simmons: You then have to commit to explaining and talking and not just a one way. It has to be a dialogue.
• 32:49
  Melinda Lee: Yeah.
• 32:49
  Christine Simmons: And I'll leave it with, you know, even with the way I parent, and for me, I truly believe if we can lead our kids and parent our kids, then it makes us better leaders and communicators in the workplace. You know, he has… we had a discussion. I was like, well, this is…
• 33:03
  Christine Simmons: kind of the… this is the decision, okay? You can have an opinion on it, and sometimes, you know I'm reasonable.
• 33:09
  Christine Simmons: I might actually change my mind on the decision. So please don't clam up and just be like, okay, Moll, because you said so, right? Make sure that you as a leader are creating a safe space that they can give you feedback because there may be one out of the three things that they say to you that actually may have you create a more innovative way to do things.
• 33:29
  Melinda Lee: Yes. Yeah.
• 33:30
  Christine Simmons: Create a safe space. It doesn't mean it's always gonna change your mind, but safe space for feedback and stop talking just to hear yourself talk.
• 33:38
  Melinda Lee: Oh my gosh, I love it. I know these… I know a lot of them have so much to offer, there's so much experience, but also trusting the people that you've hired to also, give their opinion, give their perspective, and then bring everybody else along, because as you said, we're… there's a lot to be done, and I think we need to start building organizations from the ground up.
• 34:02
  Melinda Lee: So that everybody's on board together, everybody has ownership in the direction and the vision, and doing good for the world, and it comes from here, it comes from their heart. And if, you know, if we're telling them what to do.
• 34:15
  Melinda Lee: That's not, that action is not going to come from the heart.
• 34:17
  Christine Simmons: It's not. It's not enough. Buy in. And guess what? You get freed up.
• 34:21
  Melinda Lee: Yes.
• 34:22
  Christine Simmons: Do the creative stuff and have that space that you need as a leader. And so, the last thing is take the ego out of it, right? Yeah. It can't just be about you and it need, you need to want it to thrive without you. Yeah.
• 34:35
  Melinda Lee: Yeah. Yeah. Operationalize the good.
• 34:38
  Christine Simmons: Yeah. Perfect.
• 34:41
  Melinda Lee: Thank you so much, Christine. That was such a fun conversation. I just I wish that we could just go on and on. Maybe we could, you know, someday when I have my in-person studio.
• 34:51
  Christine Simmons: Yes.
• 34:51
  Melinda Lee: to have us back and continue on the conversation.
• 34:54
  Christine Simmons: Let's do it. I love it.
• 34:55
  Melinda Lee: I.
• 34:55
  Christine Simmons: having.
• 34:56
  Melinda Lee: Yeah, it was really fun. Thank you so much, and thank you, listeners, for being here. Remember, anytime you communicate, communicate what matters, communicate what… communicate often, so your people move forward and do good in the world together. Take care. Bye-bye.
• 35:13
  Melinda Lee: Bye, Christine.
• 35:14
  Christine Simmons: Thank you, Melinda.
• 35:15
  Melinda Lee: Thank you.
• 35:16
  Christine Simmons: Okay, bye.