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102 - Toni Drk - The Role of Distribution in the Channel · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Partnerships Unraveled, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries about partnerships and channel on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: My name is Alex Whitford and I'm the VP of Revenue here at Chanix, and this week I am very excited to welcome our special guest Tony.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: How are you doing?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm fine, I'm fine.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Alex, how are you doing?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: I'm doing very well.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Excited to have you doing.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: I'm doing very well, excited to have you on and maybe for the uninitiated, you could give us a little bit of a background who you are, where you come from and why we should be listening to you today sure?
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: so my name is tony dirk, I live in sweden and I work for hewlett-packard enterprise and I work in the hp global channel organization and being a company for just 20 years and I've always been close to the channel.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: 20 years one hell of a time to stay at one company.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: But I know that career has meandered and you've gone in lots of different directions.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: In fact, you've recently started a role, a new role, managing TD Cinex globally.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: That's a role very close to my heart.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: I ran Zoom's distribution strategy across EMEA, so I'm a big fan of distribution and the value that it can play in the channel.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: How do you see the role of distribution changing over the last few years?
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Well, if you look back a little bit, I think that the box more review that many may have about distributors is very outdated.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I think that I many may have about distributors is very outdated.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I think that we see distributors as a part of our joint sales organization and go-to-market and, when you like, we have one or if not, the largest partner ecosystem of industry.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: You need not only the support of the distributors to extend your sales force, but as well to be the catalyst for the ecosystem of partners and vendors out there Salesforce, but as well to be the catalyst for the ecosystem of partners and vendors out there, and I think that in the current rapid moving market, it's unrealistic to think that one vendor can serve all the needs from a customer, and probably the same goes for the partners.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: They need support in areas that are maybe not their core or primary competency or where they maybe have not yet ramped up, and this is where the distributors really can play a crucial role.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the data is extremely clear.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's still true that all tech B2B companies that do more than a billion dollars revenue per quarter are channel or partner first right.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Either that's a partner support strategy in terms of implementation think of someone like Salesforce or in terms of implementation through sales, through to deployment, through to management think HPE and distribution is the critical element in scaling that partner acquisition and management.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And so if you really are going for true hyperscale, the only way is to have that intermediary distributor, and I think they play a really critical role in helping scale a channel.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: So it must be a really exciting position for you to step into yeah, and I mean if we can take an example there, if you take ai as a perfect example, which is very a hot topic right now, and if you take a large system integrator and maybe they have not scaled up their ai competency yet on a local level in every country, and here they can leverage the help of the distributor to find great collaboration and partnership, maybe with niched AI solution providers that can solve the customer needs.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: And especially around AI there's so many specific use cases where these niche players really can add value, but I don't have the business relationship with the customer or don't have the approval to work with these large customers.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: And here the DST can really be the catalyst for those great partnerships, to be the catalyst between the incumbent partner, the niche partner and the distributor that has this full scope umbrella for all vendor relations.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Now, I really like that.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: As an example and it's very funny we had Rick who runs AWS's marketplace in EMEA.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: He was a great podcast guest and he was talking about the requirement to build a customer-centric channel, which is almost backwards right, because you think and we're going to build a partner-centric channel, but no, they build a customer-centric channel and he was talking about how he feels that there is going to become an ever increasing requirement for specialization, meaning that you'll have multiple partners working to develop and deploy the best solution for the end customer, and knitting that together is wildly complicated.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: So I love that.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: You see that distribution can play a very critical role in what is a bleeding edge technology like AI.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I really struggled with when I was, I suppose, doing your role at Zoom is there is a requirement for you to have a centralized strategy.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Right, there is the HPE way.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: This is how we are going to market.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: And then you'll go and speak to English people or British people and they say, no, no, we're unique.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: And then you'll go and speak to the French and they'll say we're unique.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure the Brazilians will say they're unique and every country is unique and they require some level of localization.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: How do you balance the absolute mandate to have centralization while also recognizing that there are instances where localization is valid, important and required?
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: How do you blend those two together?
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: First of all, I think business is always local.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is maybe a cliche, but it's true.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Business is always local.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: However, global growth opportunities can be boosted by a great global initiative, and I think this is where it really comes into play.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: As, as an example, if you have an emerging technology or a new business model that you really need to expand across the globe, it makes perfect sense to jointly agree together on a global level, invest on a global level, but then execute on a local level.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: So, as an example, you can have a global plan with local champions executing it in every country and executing it in the way that makes sense for that local country, but the overall strategy and overall objective is set in one place, and I think that this is a proven example that really works well.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: We at HPE rolled out our Relay model as a business model.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: That was one of the examples.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that I've always liked about the balance between centralization and localization is the learnings that you can take from other markets, and so one of the real challenges with localization is your information is purely local, right?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Someone in the US or someone in Japan goes hey, we tried this thing and it worked really well, or we tried this thing and it did not work at all.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I'm able to adapt my strategy without paying the cost of learning, because I'm learning from other people's global strategy.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: If it's too decentralized, if there's no synergy between the strategy and the execution between the UK, the US and Japan, we can't learn from each other.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: It means that we move slower as a result as well.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: So I think that blending can also increase agility.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's part of my role now also is to make sure that these successes and best practices are being shared between the countries, because that's where a global role really can make a difference, because there's so many good examples in every country, but if there's nobody who brings them together and have them to meet together and talk to each other, we miss out a great opportunity of competency sharing.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: And one of the things when you're in your position, you're managing TD, td Cinex from a global perspective.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: They have thousands of partners and HPE has thousands of partners all over the world and sort of partner categorization becomes ever more important so that you can start to look at subsets of success, almost that sharing of information.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Well, it's very different for a GSI than a local integrator.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: So we need to categorize partners.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Typically, that's done with the metal system, right gold, silver, bronze or some iteration of gold silver bronze.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: What do you think are the best ways or the best way to categorize partners?
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: yeah, I think that I mean the medallion levels are, of course, still important that, as they show the size of the partner in terms of turnaround and certifications.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: But but I also think that we need to look at from the customer needs and customer perspective, just like I said before, the customer focused partner programs.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: So if a customer, as an example, needs a managed services partner, we should show them who are the best managed services partner we know and who has passed our maturity assessments and maybe have a great customer success practice that's been validated by us.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So to show the customers from an outside-in perspective what partners are relevant for them and their needs.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: This is, I think, the evolution that we see in the partner ecosystem right now and we have with the NHP Now voltage program, and I think that the Medallia status will still be there.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: But it's a different view when we move into the from a customer perspective view.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Fine.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: This basically shows the customer which partner is relevant for them and their needs, and not only which partners are relevant for the vendors, if you talk about turnaround and certifications, so from your perspective, the metal system is a great way because we understand.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: We understand some high level data, but maybe even quite vendor focused right.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It's not actually what the customer cares about.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Broadly speaking, a customer is probably not going to care that much if it's a gold, silver, platinum or whatever, unless there's some certification requirements right to support the project.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: But instead there has to be another level of categorization which is much more focused around how they can support a particular deal, particular customers.
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: That's sort of where you're coming from.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Exactly that's what I mean Like a specific need, like security, managed services, sustainability, customer success, those kinds of customer focused values.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: This is where the partner programs need to evolve.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Now it sounds like you've had quite the career at HPE, pivoting slightly.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: I often do a lot of mentorship for sort of young budding salespeople.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I tell them that the channel is a really interesting market to head into.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: I've got fairly strong opinions of why people should be aiming to build careers in the channel.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: What's kept you here for so long?
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: well, I think that the channel the channel part of the industry is is so interesting because it's constant changing, and then the it industry that we're, that we're working within, is also constant changing.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: So these two together makes you, that makes you, makes it really interesting, it makes you never being bored.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: So I think that that that it's a constant change which is driving the interest for me to stay in this middle of the pot, so to say, and I think that I've been fortunate to try so many different things within the company, but still being very close to the channel.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, I've seen the channel evolution over the years, how it's been transforming from traditional resellers to more system integrators, to more managed services partners, and also now we see the other cloud coming into play, also, how the evolution of the channel landscape is constantly changing.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I think that's really fascinating and that's what keeps me driving.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I love that, tony.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I often break the channel down into sort of four pillars.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: You've got your sales, your marketing, your tech and your ops.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: And the reason I love working in the channel is because you know feasibly I'm a salesperson and what do I manage?
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I manage all four pillars.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: And I meet, see technical people and they manage all four pillars.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And they see marketing people, they manage it because it's no good just being one, because the business of the channel is understanding how all four work and sort of to layer on top of your point.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Not only does the technology change or the market change, but you've got variances in all of those different areas across those four pillars and it just means there's something new to learn almost on a daily basis yeah, I think it's a fantastic ecosystem also.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: it's I mean, it think it's a fantastic ecosystem also.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: I mean it's easy to say that many departments are competing with each other.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Of course, they are on a day-to-day basis maybe, but it's a fantastic ecosystem when they meet outside of their day-to-day business, how well they know each other and how much they care about each other.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: So I think it's a big ecosystem that is really I haven't seen in any other industries at the same scale.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So I think that it's something that we should really take care of and nurture and grow.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: And maybe focusing in on one of those pillars marketing.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: We see channel marketers often struggle to get their marketing assets utilized by partners, sometimes SMB partners in particular.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Right, because it's more high volume of partners, there's less direct touch and so, with SMB partners, lack of time, resources and expertise.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: What do you think of ChanX's approach to solving that problem?
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and expertise.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: What do you think of channex's approach to solving that problem?
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I think it's a very I think you have an interesting approach on an offering.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's addressing some of the challenges you mentioned, both on the vendor side, but also on the partner side.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: And this is where it becomes really interesting, because we, as vendors, we create tons of assets on our product solutions offerings and we're sometimes struggling to get this out to all our partners and to all customer segments, and the reason for that is that many of the SMB resellers don't have the manpower, the marketing departments or the processes for effective marketing.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: So in one end, we have these great assets.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: In another end, we don't get these assets to be used in a big portion of the segment, which is the SMB segment.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: So I think this is where marketing automation really can make a pivotal play and role.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So if the assets that we are producing can be automatically shared and deployed through the SMB resellers, through their SMB customers, through social media, not only on corporate pages but also on individual level, I think this really can make a big difference and in the end, I think that all partners could be benefiting from it and we as a vendor, get data-driven analytics partners get posting relevant offers to their specific customers and the customer feels that they're being addressed in a specific way for their needs.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: So I think the secret sauce, I think, which I think that you are addressing very well, is the automation part of it, because all the things that I've seen before, it's great assets and great programs, but there is no real automation, and this is where where the smaller partners are suffering because they don't have the manpower to go and execute this if it's not automated well, I think your, uh, your analysis is spot on, maybe slightly, uh, pivoting away from channex, but more into the hypothetical.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: What I've seen, uh, from lots of guests who focus on the smb is they've talked about either the word automation comes up or the word friction comes up, and whether it's in operational friction ie we don't know how to price effectively, we don't know how to discount effectively, we don't know how to structure deals properly or sales automation, we don't know how to escalate for support, we don't know how to deploy all of that friction.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: When we start to talk about thousands of partners, sometimes tens of thousands, that friction is what kills an smb channel, and so you have to focus in on automation to win the smb and, if you can get the whole thing, and to when, to work flawlessly, I think those are the brands that invest in the tooling and the programs.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: Those are the ones that ultimately, are going to win that channel.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I think yeah, I agree, I agree, I think automation is is one of the big things, uh, in combination with ai, uh, which is going to be the big thing, uh, moving forward here, because that's that's where we can evolve the channel and our industry to the next level and and?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: do you see that ai is going to play a role in your channel design?
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: Because I think so.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: There's sort of two schools of thought in terms of how AI is going to affect the channel One.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: It's going to affect the product, so channel people will start selling AI tools.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: But I also think AI is going to be interwoven into the channel, ie it's going to be the foundation of what we build on right.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: It's how we communicate, how we market, how we process orders.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: You know how we have swivel chair processes managed by AI instead of people.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: How do you see AI playing a critical role into the channel?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: I mean it is already in many aspects.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: I mean we are already using AI in many forms and ways.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I think that everything from intelligent pricing based on the customer's behaviors and that kind of stuff, and we're also seeing that AI plays a very good role in terms of tech refresh so we can be more specific in when we are addressing our installed base, so we can see what they're using, how they're using our infrastructure, maybe in our solutions to make better tailored new offerings, instead of just throwing out and propose the next version of the same system.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: We can maybe do much more tailored solutions.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: So I think AI and in marketing AI is also going to play a very important role of being addressing the right customers with the right assets much more specifically, which means that they will feel that they're more more personally addressed with with different offerings also.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: So I think it's it's there already, but it's evolving and and of course, chatbots, support ages and all that stuff.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: It's already been in place for for a while, but it's uh.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting to see where it's going to be in, let's say, three to five years from now.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah I yeah, exactly, I always feel when I see, you know, I see gpt2 versus gpt3 and now gpt4, I go well, that's quite a exponential curve of improvement, right?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: And so I always, when, when you start to envision what does five years ahead look like, you start to think, wow, there is going to be some radical shifts.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: But I think, for people like myself, people like yourself that's why it's great to be in the channel, because it's going to be such an interesting time we've talked about what's kept you involved is, uh, is those changing dynamics.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I think those changing dynamics are speeding up, not slowing down yeah, and they're going to be massive.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean ai is going to be a big one.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: But also like vendor strategies, when M&As, as an example I mean you see the latest, when VMware and Broadcom come together, that's a massive, massive change in the channel landscape also.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So there is both like technology-driven but also like business-driven decisions that can impact the channel moving forward.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: So I think that's the fun thing being in this part of of the industry you never know what's going to happen around the corner tony, sometimes I think I've got the best job in the world because I get to speak to people like yourself, get to nerd out about technologies and channel.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: It's good to see you, having a big smile on your face, talking about, I think, the the way things are going to change, because that's, I think, that's what keeps this whole thing interesting.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Now we are a true channel podcast and part of being a channel is sometimes filling out lead forms and sending leads over to other people and sharing the love.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Um, so we always ask our current guest to invite our next guest.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Who did you have in mind?
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: so I was thinking of a colleague from a long time back in the time, a lady called anna maria lovenberg, who is today working at hashicorp as partner director and has been having a great career 15 years with with vmware, also in the partner segment.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: So I think that she could really be a good next, next guest on your podcast awesome, awesome.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Anna Maria will be reaching out shortly, and Tony, thank you so much for coming on.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure.