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The Homecoming: Rekindling Love After Divorce with Tim Wade · "What's Next? Conversations with Boomers"

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: You are listening to What's Next?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: Conversations with Boomers.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm Barb Demaray, your host.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: Last week, last episode, I should say, which was uh yeah, over a week ago, we were talking about gray divorce, people who divorce after decades of marriage, and we were particularly focusing on the finances that surround that.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: And we talked about the book Strangers, where um a woman, her husband, decided he didn't want to be in the marriage anymore, which was completely a shock to her, and we talked about that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: It was really an interesting and informative episode.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know anybody who divorced and ten years later they reunite and move back in together?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, guess what?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: We've got Tim back, who has been MIA for a while.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's had a lot going on, and he's going to share his story.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: Tim, just a warm, loving embrace.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Barb.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's been too long and I've missed you, and I'm so glad to be here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Me too.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, why don't you start with giving the backstory?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Just how it all started.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I started out as a child, as they say.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: No, not that far back.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I I met my former ex-wife, which is what I'm calling her now, because of the way things have unfolded.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: But I met her 37 years ago, and we were immediately, you know, head over teapot in uh love with each other and bonded at the hip and got married and had children and all of that, right?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And about 11 years ago, we had gone through some very difficult times with uh our children and with our business and all sorts of things, lots of stressors, you know.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I will be the first to admit that I didn't handle them that well at the time.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: I and so and by the way, her name is Barb, so for me she's Barb number one.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, she sat me down and said, I can't do this.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: The the kind of classic I I I I I I'm done.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: I I've tried and I'm done.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: And cut to the chase, we got separated about a year later we got divorced.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: We had two children, ten and twelve.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: We became co-parents and lived in separate houses, separate lives, all of that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the backstory.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's the prep for it all.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: How do two people who divorced end up choosing each other again?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: And what actually changed over those 10 years?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I sometimes ask myself that, but with great joy.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how did this turn out this way?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh one thing I'll say is that we, when we got divorced, still had great fondness for each other.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't hate each other.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: We were maybe sometimes fed up with each other, but that's different.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's behavioral kind of under the same roof, you know, I need some space, kind of thing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the first thing was that there was no scorched earth.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: There wasn't there was no fighting and court battles and anything like that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: We had kind of a good divorce if there is such a thing.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And we were both very committed to being really good co-parents.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what we designed was that we didn't have to be angry with each other or unfriendly or anything like that.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: That we actually liked each other, but just couldn't seem to pull off the marriage that we had, you know, created.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so, unlike a lot of people, we spent some time together.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: We did holidays together, uh, you know, with the kids.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um most of it revolved around the kids.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so that laid the groundwork for actually remembering how much we enjoyed each other.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_02: We let that happen.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And people would look at us and go, Are you sure you're divorced?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: You seem to like each other a lot.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, we got the paper to prove it and everything.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and we dated other people, and and so this was a it was a real divorce.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't just, you know, pretending.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: But over time, both of us did a lot of inner work.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: We're both trained coaches.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Barb has two degrees in psychology, two master's degrees, and so you would think we would have done better the first time around, but we we were human, I guess.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think I consciously saw this as a second chance at all.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I know I did.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't going like, well, maybe, you know.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: We had uh really separated and and divorced.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: I want to add that we had the two of you on, it's got to be about a year ago or so.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, living together, cohabitating again was not on the table at all.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: You certainly talked about your friendship and how much you respect and love each other, but it was working really well, you having your own place, Barb having her own place.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it did work well, actually.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: At best, I'm an ambivert.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can be extroverted and introverted.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: She's a full-blown extrovert, so I need time alone.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I need my solitude.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so it did work in many ways.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then it started probably about a year ago.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And what happened was we started spending more time together without the kids.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it it just evolved very slowly.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: There was no rush, there was no overly urgent thing happening.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: We were just like, this is nice.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is nice, you know, having dinner or watching TV or whatever.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there was you know, if people ask, was there a moment?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Was there a moment where you know you knew?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if I had to pinpoint one, there was one conversation, it was a phone call that we had.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't remember exactly who said what, but it went something like this.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, how are you?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: You want to do nothing with me?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: And there was a moment that I thought, wow, you know what?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'd rather do nothing with her than do everything with someone else.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: That was what was was present for me.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I will be completely transparent, which I usually am, but I was also very nervous.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what does this mean?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: What is it?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, what if it's all the questions, all the unknowns.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: So we slow walked it.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: We decided there's nothing to decide right now except I'm enjoying your company.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wanna go to a concert?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And over time I realized we've both grown up a lot in the last ten years.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: We did our work.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's still more to do, of course, there always is, but we did the work that we hadn't done before.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that the doing of, and when I say the work, it was basically it was personal work.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was like me becoming uh more secure and less reactionary and all sorts of things.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it made it possible for us to have a healthy relationship.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: It didn't make it inevitable, but it did make it possible.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: And over time we went, hey, maybe we should do this.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Should we do this?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Kim, I really love how you make that distinction.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: What's possible and what's inevitable.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: Some things are not inevitable, but they are possible.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think we always have choice.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a part of me that feels like, on the other hand, because I'm very much a both and type of person, I think.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it was also kind of inevitable in some ways.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we would just When we got divorced, people this is gonna sound weird, but there were people who were more upset than we were.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: They were like, oh no, no, like not you guys.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that was Well, it just kind of points to the fact that nobody knows what goes on between two people.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: We have our public personality and we have what goes on behind closed doors.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: And not that we're being fake in public, but we only expose that side of us.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, nor should you know our friends or everybody know exactly what the dynamics are between two people when there's just the two of them.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: I remember my father saying, you can't judge anyone's relationship from the outside.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: You just can't.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, more time together and realizing that we're not perfect, but we know how to get through things better.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: We have more tools, more patience, more kindness, a lot of kindness.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: I tell my clients as relationship coach, first thing, go back to basics.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And the first thing of basics is just kindness.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: Don't make your relationship a 15-round boxing match of grievances.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: You did this and you did that, you're always doing this, and you're always doing that, and you never do this.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: Tim, what an amazing role model you are to your clients that you and Barb have made this happen after 10 years.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: How is it different now?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's again kind of a both and it is wonderfully familiar and totally different.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: So being back, I have a different backdrop because I'm back in the house that we continue to co-own due to this day together, even during our divorce.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: We kept the equity in the house.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm back here, and it's sort of like, oh, my new old house, my old new house.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so there's a little bit of like, mm-hmm like a comfy chair, you forgot what what it was like and how one lovely it was.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And also like, but things are different.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm different, she's different.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the ways I think is that in in addition to kindness, a lot more patience with each other.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: Again, kind of back to basics, you know, like kindness, patience, understanding, cutting the other person's slack, you know, that this move was I've never met anyone who said, Oh, I love moving all my furniture and stuff, you know, do it as often as possible.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, no, I uh it was long and it took us weeks and weeks to do, and it was tiring, the weather was hot, and you know, it was everything that was just like and we really turned up the patience, and we got into it a couple times.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: That's not where I wanted that box.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Tim, also, this is what I'm thinking as well, is that we're baby boomers, and and most of our audience is baby bourners.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, one of the things that we say so often, you know, he or she is 65, 70, you're not gonna change them.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Change is possible, right?
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: It takes the person wanting to change.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Do you agree?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Only one, but the light bulb has to want to change.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's the old joke, right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, if you don't wanna, that's always say, yeah, I gotta wanna, then this in the water.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: But even just wanting to, it doesn't happen by magic.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: You have to put in the effort, you have to do the work.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not like, oh, I sat and read books all the time.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: We actually did the work in real time in the trenches with each other.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: And we got into arguments sometimes.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But we learned to go, hold on, I'm really sorry.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: This is not how I want to show up.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: Instead of the five-hour knockdown drag out, I have to be right and you have to be wrong scenario that happened between us in the past.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, you can change.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: You really can.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: People aren't set in stone.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank God for neuroplasticity, right?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm sure when you were growing up and I was growing up, they thought the brain was static.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, no, once you hit a certain age, that's it, you're done.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then we learned.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love how you say, This is not how I want to show up.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's for one thing, it's taking such profound responsibility.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's so mature.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is not how I want to show up.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_03: And saying that out loud, I mean, that covers a lot.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: And it's such a good starting place for okay, let's repair this right now.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: This is not how I want to show up.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we're still all learning.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm gonna be completely transparent and say, I was in therapy yesterday.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: I have terrible boundaries, and I'm a people pleaser, and I I need to get better.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm 73 years old.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_03: Thinking, I gotta get with it here, but never too late.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you better get getting.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Get getting get getting.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Never too late.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I do believe that.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: It really isn't.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm on deathbed.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be like, you know what?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I just figured out.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll go, uh, and they'll go, whoa, no, what was it?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: He took it to his grave.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you uh I have a friend who is a coach, and he has a group of men that he meets with, and the name of the group is the old dogs.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're like they're all our age, you know, in a range of late 60s, early 70s, and it's like, yeah, we're learning new tricks.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Tim, this happens every single time we get on together, we think, okay, that's another episode.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm thinking we could do a whole episode on boobers.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, we can change.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a people pleaser like me, if you've got terrible boundaries like me, if you are showing up in a way you don't want to show up, you can change.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: How do you do that?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is gold.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: I guess we're gonna have to see each other again.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: We are we are.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: I got okay.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: So what has been the most surprising thing so far?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh okay, this happened just the other night, and I love this.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Barb walked in, it was part of the morning, and she was like got a smile on her face seeing me sitting on the couch, which you know would have been unusual, right?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: First thing in the morning.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, and I quote, You're here, you're really here.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is so much fun.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now it struck me that she could have said, It's lovely, it's nice, I'm happy, it's wonderful.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: She said, This is so much fun.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, because in the latter years of what was our old marriage, we forgot a lot about having fun.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that I believe strongly that at the end of the day, people enjoy being with one another, but that's the main thing.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you stop enjoying that, that's where it starts to go like, what am I doing?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, life is hard enough.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: We cannot be taking life so seriously.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we just do, you know, especially now with the world in complete, utter chaos.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to use any strong language here.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: But it's a shit show.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: But we have to be able to laugh.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: We have to be able to find humor in the ordinary things.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, I mean, I'm finding, you know, being a boomer, you know, sometimes we get mixed up, sometimes we forget things, sometimes we don't follow the directions right.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we just have to, whatever.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it was this, but it was that.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, I did this and said, you know, whatever.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we just have to laugh, and it's it's so good for our soul.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: And a good injection of humor in a marriage, what could be better?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And so remembering that was lovely and surprising and wonderful, and a lot of other things.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: So remembering, like, you know what, you guys like each other.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Have some fun.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm gonna add into this part of the story, which is because it's we're never satisfied with doing one thing at a time.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: So at the same time we were moving back towards each other, our younger child decided he really, really wanted to move out and move in with his fiancee.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So the move was him moving into his apartment, his first apartment, and me moving here at the same time.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: So we are both together again and empty nesters.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot going on, and we're just going, okay, bring it on.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: If you were to name this chapter, what would you name it?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so many colorful phrases come to mind, but uh I would say here we go again, and isn't it grand?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is, it's like it's familiar, it's unfamiliar, it's big, it's tiny, it's all sorts of things at once.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's one little moment of isn't this fun?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a bigger thing of like we we have a uh kind of a basement apartment that our son lived in for quite a while, so he could have his own space and all that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it's got a little kitchen and you know, bathroom, shower and all that.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, What if you made that your your man cave, your place?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be great.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: You should have a place because I know you have to get away.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know you need time in your solitude.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And even just that moment of like, thank you.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like thank you for noticing, thank you for knowing that and saying, Yeah, I think you should.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: You'll have fun, you'll decorate it and have all your things that you like.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, yeah, and they won't be in any other part of the house.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't lost on me.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: But and that's another important thing in a loving relationship to remember to thank you for noticing that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it it seems like a little thing, but it's not.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for noticing that that's important to me.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for noticing that I love those things, or thank you for noticing that it's not my favorite, or whatever it is.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: There was a book when I was, I think in high school, called Don't Sweat the Small Stuff, and the subtitle was It's All Small Stuff.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's all small stuff, yeah.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a big thing to remember.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And when you just said that about the small moments or the small things, I feel like there should be a sequel to that book.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, really enjoy the small things.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: They're all small things.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like something like that.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm making this up as I go along, obviously.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: But just the idea, don't forget that actually life is made up of moments.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's really all it is.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: You don't get to live tomorrow now.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: You just get to be here.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: I get to be here with you.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Miles apart, but face to face.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: My daughter makes movies.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm thinking this is gonna this could be a movie.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: Why not?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is rare, Tim, you do admit.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've done a little research because I'm a bibliophile, and it is not the average thing.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's also not as rare as you might imagine.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the actual number, but it's it's not like 0.1% or something that actually find each other after losing each other.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: But it, yeah, it's not the majority by any means.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: One story you do hear about, and this is a little bit different, but it's a reunification, is people that were high school sweethearts and then they went off and married other people, had children, and then one of the spouses dies, and then they find each other again.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that's you hear that story quite often.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's a movie, right?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's a movie.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a movie too.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: But yours is a movie, definitely.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, partly because of the people that you and Barb are and and and you know, the work you do and what you teach other people and how you inspire.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And wow.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, what advice would you give other couples?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: That are separating or that are together.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that are maybe contemplating because even though you were saying it's not as rare as you think, but we don't hear about it often reuniting after 10 years.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm sure there's people that divorce and except for when there's infidelity, that is a bit different.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: But gee, you know, I really miss her a lot, or I really miss him a lot.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder if we could make it work.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's interesting that you mentioned that, you know, it's a movie, because there are some movies that have a storyline similar to that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe people gravitate toward that because in their hearts somewhere they think, like, maybe that could happen.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Wouldn't it be awesome if it would happen?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of like the redemption story is always so satisfying.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a type of redemption story in a way.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing I would say is anything's possible.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: We kind of already said that.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: People can change, and anything's possible if you want it.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that you don't have to do it the way anyone else has done it or is doing it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: That was one thing Barb and I discovered decades ago that we kind of do it our own way.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And people look at us and go, Well, that was odd or whatever.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, Yeah, but we're doing it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would say, be you, both you.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a notion to do something different or try an experiment, try it.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: And people say, Well, there's so much to lose.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, like you said, if someone's a widow or a widower, well, you might lose your loneliness.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but they want to protect their hearts, and so they don't want to risk and they m might miss out.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I as I'm saying this, I'm realizing that Barbara and I have been courageous.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh so being courageous.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: Be courageous.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, be courageous.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody likes a happy ending to a story.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: You could write a book.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: If it doesn't go into a movie, write a book.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: You've got a book.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Can you?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: Why not?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: We can call it the homecoming.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the good divorce.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Here's something that I I was talking to my business partner this morning, and I said to him, you know, I used to think that having a good A great relationship was finding the right person.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: And now I believe it's about being the right person.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that both of us grew into being more expressed as our authentic selves at the highest order, is what I would add to that.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not just, oh, that's just me, you know, I'm an idiot or whatever.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like I'm expressing myself and it is reaching towards my higher self, you know, my not, you know, it's no perfection involved, but just going, yeah, like I'm gonna try to show up better.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can show up better if I try it.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: Our authentic self is our best self.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And if somebody loves you for someone you're not, then what's that?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I believe that no one could ever be more interesting, more wonderful, and more alive than who you really are.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that no person you could pretend to be would even come close.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: We have to have the courage, and you've used that word a couple of times, to let go of our insecurities and let go of our fears and let go of our shoulds and all those things to be able to show up as your authentic self.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes it requires some shedding.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and some disillusionment, which I think we may have even talked about this before, that the literal meaning of being relieved of one's illusions is what disillusionment is.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's coming closer to reality, actually.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And we think of it like it's this huge disappointment, and oh, the poor guy, the poor gal, you know, she's so disillusioned.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: She thought it was one way and it's really another.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's like uh I think there was a writer who said, we should be congratulated.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So congratulations.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: You have a greater grip on reality now, you know, and yeah, it hurt.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was a shedding, it was more maybe even like uh having your skin removed, but uh eventually it's like, yeah, so I know that Barb cannot, will not, and should not provide every need that I have.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: And when you go into marriage, you know, in your twenties, I didn't know that.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I just know what the movie said and you know, uh what I was modeled, and so everyone goes into both parenting and and marriage with no clue.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: And half the time we don't even know we don't have a clue.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: We think, yeah, I got this down.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: As they say in the South, oh bless your heart.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Just wait.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: Just wait, yeah, yeah.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Are you going to get married again?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, I have a fiance that lives in Los Angeles and no.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm such a wise ass, you know.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: You're such a wise ass.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I that's a you know?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think so, but not because we're afraid of doing that, but uh unfortunately there's some significant downsides to having that piece of paper.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there can be.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: What we learned over ten years is that we are good friends, we are great friends, no matter what.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: We have each other's back, we are trustworthy and trusting.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: We don't do things that would destroy that ever.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it has nothing to do with we're married, we're not married, we have a piece of paper, we're living together, we're living apart.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's who we are.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: And neither of us are afraid of, like, well, are you gonna screw me over or something?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or I don't know if that's a good answer.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: You're committed to each other.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's important.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm just curious, and I'm thinking people watching this, listening to this are going to be asking that question.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_03: So are they getting married again?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, I I I wouldn't avoid marriage because I'm soured on it by any means.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that kind of thing.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're just like, uh not that ever again, you know, anything else, but and I could foresee in the future, now that we're empty nesters and we have a little more time and space and all the freedom, you know, maybe we'll have a celebration of some sort, you know.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Big party.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: That would be fun.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: That would be fun.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: I want to come.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think you should.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we're at the end here.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Is there anything else that you'd like to add to this enchanting story?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: I just love it.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I would say this also to anyone who is considering this, in addition to take it slow, enjoy the moments and all of that stuff, have an open mind, have an open heart.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that in order to reinvent and create something really new, you have to put to death the old marriage.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: You have to let it go.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean put it to death because it's evil or bad, just put it to rest.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's done now.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was what it was, it was good and it was bad, and it was the w best of times and worst of times, and you know what?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: May it rest in peace.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: No regrets on your part.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, we shouldn't shouldn't have done it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: We should have got we should have got married now.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: We should have got Yeah.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: It served the purpose of us evolving into better humans, I believe.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't be where I am now in my life if it hadn't happened, if the divorce or the marriage.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's all part of it.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't regret it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't regret the divorce.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: It hit me upside the head with a two by four and said, Wake up, Tim, you're sleepwalking.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say, Yeah, you can put that to rest and say, Yeah, because it needed it.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: It needed to be over.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was it had run its course and it was not operating well.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was like going on two cylinders.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: So now, from that position of newness and freedom and all of that, we can say, What do we want to create?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Something completely new.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: One thing we want to do is travel, for example.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't we l used to love to travel, and then you have kids, and it's not as easy.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: And now maybe we'll come up to Vancouver.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: That would be great.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: So okay, Tim, I just can't thank you enough because you know, when I heard this was happening, I was really hoping that you'd be willing to share your story.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: And when you said you would be, I was, oh great, because this is such a it's such a happy story.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I will remind people again that Tim is a relationship coach.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: So can you give us your contact information for anybody that wants to glean your wisdom?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: You can go to Timwaidecoaching.com.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the easiest way.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's, you know, you can fill out a contact form, or if you actually want to talk to me one-on-one, especially I you know my work has been exclusively with men uh up till now.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: But hey, there's lots of new things happening.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's a new chapter.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what will unfold as I lean into all of this, but that's the best way to get a hold of me.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Just always a pleasure.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: For me too.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: This episode was written and recorded by Barb Demaray, edited and produced by Aidan Glassy.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: As always, special thanks to our guests for making it possible.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed and you'd like to hear more, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can also follow the show on YouTube at what's next.convos with boomers.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.