Latest / The Rave Social Podcast / 7 Building a Community, Outsourcing, and Oversharing with Sam Schmidt

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7 Building a Community, Outsourcing, and Oversharing with Sam Schmidt · The Rave Social Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Rave Social Podcast.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Jaden, and today we have our guest, Sam.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Sam is a social media manager and also a social media manager coach, right?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she's incredible.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Her content is amazing.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I found her on Instagram, and then I was like, you're my girl.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have to be my friend.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what I do with everyone.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we're so excited to have Sam today.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Sam, why don't you just tell us a little bit about like what you do?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so hi.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, so my name is Sam, and basically I've been running a full-time social media management business for about two and a half years now.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was mostly into like restaurants and food products, but then just one thing led to another, and now we do acupuncturists, and yup, broke.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it kind of is all over the place.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: I used to be a teacher, so I have found my way into the coaching space now, and I just absolutely love it.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So just doing a little bit of everything.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like teachers make great coaches.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have a client who is a coach and she was also a teacher, and her courses are just insanely good because she just knows how to teach people.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's it just seems like she's an educator to her core.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm sure you have those same traits, and it's just lovely to learn from people that know how to teach.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's so many so often, like teachers really do love teaching.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's just all the external things.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, right, like stepping into coaching is like stepping back into teaching, and it's so much fun.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like you can tell people like doing it.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's on your terms, and you get to actually make money doing it and have more freedom.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, something I did want to talk to you about today is kind of like using your personal brand to scale, because I know you've done that.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you've done there?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you create your personal brand to support you to be able to grow?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so actually I didn't in my first year and a half.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: I had I did like food blogging through COVID, just like everybody else.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I super into it.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was always into like the food element of things and creating content.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: But for my own business, I literally just like would post some things on my food blog, like, oh, I do social media management now.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Never thinking, oh, I should use Instagram to leverage my essentially Instagram business.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So in it was the beginning of this year, I was like, okay, I'm going to like at first I was like on TikTok for some reason, and then I was like, I don't even offer TikTok.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I in March of this year, I was just like, I am going to build my personal brand for my business.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then my my big thing is I was like, even when the crickets were so loud, I was like, I'm gonna keep going and keep going.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like really what is the not say the biggest issue, but it's you know, building if you can get past that point, like building your brand can be so beneficial for your business, and from there, oh my gosh.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: I had clients in my DMs that was like, wait, I don't have to look for them, they can come to me.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like such a wild feeling of like, oh, it's almost like, oh, like your time is almost like given back to you as you put in time for your personal brand.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it totally does.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think there's like a lot of legwork in the beginning, like, and it's so easy to lose like your dedication and your motivation for it when in those early stages where you're like, I'm just trying to grow my brand, like this is a struggle, like it seems really hard, is it working?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: But like you're saying it's like you have to push through that time when you're like, ugh.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: The time where you're just like you're look-I feel it's almost the time that I see for everyone is like they're scrolling through, they're seeing all the viral, viral reels, they're trying to replicate them and trying to understand why it's not working for them.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm even trying to find their own voice, and it's just it's going to happen.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just kind of getting through.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I was like, I feel like I have a more like lax personality, but like it's not I'm not so stiff with my business.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yeah, just do people think I'm not legit because of that?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was questioning my own personality with it, but then I was just like, okay, I'm gonna do this, and you know, it was four or five months, honestly, in my own personal brand, posting almost every single day before anyone started paying attention.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: But but honestly, once it did, I was like, oh, okay, this is great.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I was manifesting.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: What I was trying to do.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So people who are trying to do what you're doing, what like what are the pillars of a personal brand?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: Or like what things did you were like the main elements that helped you?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the difference, especially the difference between a personal brand for a business versus you know building your brand as you know, an influencer or really trying to build your brand to get brand deals, is as a business, you you just want I again I think this is a controversial take, but I think showing your face is just it's going to make you stand out.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there are accounts that can grow without you know faceless reels.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: We see those all the time, and that works, but it's just truly when people you want people to buy from you and trust your personal brand, showing your face is so important.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think like as far as it's not necessarily a content pillar by any means, but that's just like a pillar that I think is so so vital.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: But then also, again, like I this is just in my experience, is letting your personality show.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Do you need to be dancing all over the place?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not, but I think it's so so important to just like even those little things, you know, even the the to-do list in your story, if it's not just all business, it's like, oh yeah, and I'm also gonna go get a croissant today, you know.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, oh good, she likes croissants.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see that, you know.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree with you, and I think people are so scared to show their face, and I honestly do get it.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, especially if you're like an introvert or something, it's like it can be nerve-wracking, but like the benefit of it is enormous, and like you were saying, you can grow a brand, like a faceless brand or whatever, but in my experience, they don't grow as fast, like at all, just because there's not a human touch behind it.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And same for me, like when I share in my stories, like I share a couple different things about my personality.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't share everything because I don't think you have to, but like I always share about like the music I like, I share about like my girls' nights, I share about things that are kind of my audience can relate to, but also that are just like parts of who I am.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: And every time I share content like that, people are like DMing me, like, I love this so much.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like it has nothing to do with my business, but it's building that community really strong.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: So totally one of my like, sorry to cut you off the one of my like most like interactive stories was literally I was drinking celery juice in my backyard, and I was just literally that's all I was doing, and then I was like, okay, I guess I'll do it again tomorrow.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, I mean people being like, please keep posting this.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just like you know, it's just a different element other than like going to my clients today, going to do this.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: It just like lets people in a little bit, but I think I posted something that's on threads once.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what I love about personal brand is like, am I married?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Did I just go through a breakup?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like all these things like you don't know, like we don't have to share all of it.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, do I have kids?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, or it's like in you know, in the personal branding space, you can share as much as you want.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that element of it too.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's what makes us like like if you think about the people you follow that you really love, or like maybe even podcasts that you listen to, it's usually because you like the person.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's why I followed you.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I loved your content, of course, found it super valuable, but at the same time, I was like, she, I like her energy, I like her personality, like I like the way she is on here.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like that had more to do with why I would follow you, and that has to do with more like why I would follow a lot of people or listen to their podcasts.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I just like you, and so therefore I care about what you have to say.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, totally.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even there's actually two careers in like I thought about this the other day too.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm obsessed with these two people, and I don't think I've ever heard their voice, but I their face.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen like they have like they're in there all of their reels, but I'm like, I don't think I've ever heard them talk.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, your face can be so much more powerful than your voice sometimes too.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I like it, it is such a kind of a woo-woo energy thing sometimes too, because I was completely gravitated towards yours, and when I see your stuff, I even if it's your static posts or you know, your graphics, I still put your face to it, and I think that's so powerful, especially on Instagram.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so too.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about brands who like don't have they like okay?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I work with a lot of creatives, I work with a lot of photographers, and they are like, I'm behind the camera.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to them to encourage them to get in front of the camera?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I with I have a client like that too, and it's it's so I think this is such a specific example, but with one of my clients, I always showed her, she was like, I just like I don't really understand the point.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do I have to be like I don't understand?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm gonna show you right now.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: I went on TikTok and I have you, I'm not sure if you've ever heard of skinny dipped almonds or like skinny dip.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yes.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: That girl who runs their TikTok.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I if she was walking on the street, I would know like that's the skinny dip girl.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, sh I'd like she could literally not work for them in 10 years.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always gonna recognize her.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always show her like you want to be like skinny dipped.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: You want people to walk on the street and be like, that's the girl who does acupuncture, that's the girl I need to go to.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just there's some kind of connection, so really, is my skinny dip method I always use.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's what you want.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, like that works.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even think about, you know, even when I'm in the store and I see those things, I think about that girl, and so it's the connection that is really what I always use for my clients and be like, well, let's do it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, okay, that's fine, I'll be the skinny dip girl.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and you know what's like beyond that, beyond that, I want to be like, that's the content that performs the best.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know it's not all about the numbers.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: We all know this.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: If you're listening to this podcast, you know this.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, that's the content that performs well.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like in our monthly analytics, it's always the video that starts with the photographer or the person behind the brand, like every single time it is.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it I think has to do with too is that like when these brands are starting out, a lot of your audience comes, even if you start a new account, your audience comes from your friends and your family to begin with, usually, pretty much always.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so those people are used to seeing you as well, and you become like recognizable, and that will like stop their scroll because they're like, Oh, I know her.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know this couple that she photographed, but I know her.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just these are just really subconscious like cues that your mind has and your audience's mind has.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you just are kind of playing on the psychology of it.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a good example, too, is even like stopping the scroll.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I always think about when I'm on my reels tab, and like there's it's especially you know, like women creators I see out of when I see their face, I stop.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Even if I don't follow them, it's because I recognize them, and then usually gets me to follow them.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I always think of like I could see a million different reels with information with lattes in the back, and those do perform well, but I'm I don't recognize you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I see, you know, oh no different different versions of vanilla lattes that are great.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Those are those reels do well, but it doesn't make me recognize you where I could have seen a hundred of your reels and not like made that connection.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, oh cute aesthetic reel, you know.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's like that maybe performed well, but it maybe didn't convert any new followers or anything either, because like it's just so everyone does that and so that it does perform well, but at the same time, it's like it doesn't make an impact or doesn't stand out or anything like that.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um what would you say like personal brands should avoid, if anything?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's I feel like it's like such a hard um not equation, it's such a hard like balance almost because my first initial reaction is like sharing too much.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like the thing too is like again, every personal brand.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, especially following so many other like business owners and creators, I see different people share, share more and then share less about their life.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there is like having a really solid balance of sharing your business, sharing with the kind of the reason that people do initially follow you and then you know giving them the fun stuff.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you lean too far either way, it's kind of a no-no, I guess you could say.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Again, everyone does it so differently.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but other than that, really like my as far as personal brand goes is just replicating the viral reels so heavily is gonna get you out of that personal branding space where you're not thinking about what's making your personal brand.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're thinking about how do I go viral?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that's something that's talked about all the time is like viral is actually not the answer.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like okay.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's like, you know, when you're constantly just like, okay, I'm gonna make I even look at some of my older content when I was doing that, I'm like, why was I posting, you know, because for me, I'm like trending audios under 5K, that's just not me, but I was trying so hard to replicate the things that did well, yeah, instead of finding what worked for me.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just like, I'm like, as I was trying to research audios to make it happen.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I that's it for me.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I I fully support that message because I'm down for trending content.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've posted trendy content that's done really good, like I've done it for my clients, everything like that.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you have to choose your trends and your viral reels that you want to replicate and stuff.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: They have to be right for you.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't just do it because it's viral, like, do it because it you have a good idea, you have a new take, you have something of value to share.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, those like 5k um audio ones is like everyone's making those and they're just like it might get a lot of views, but like, is that what you want to be known for?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's there's and there's an account I can't think of the name right off the top of my head, where like she has built her brand off of you know, loving people at trending audio.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's like so that makes sense for her, you know.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's not like it's one thing is bad and one and one isn't.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, is that okay, do you want to be the trending audio person?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Or you know it's just what's your goal?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is that what you want to be known for?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Or like do you want to be known for something else?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, then you can really like let your personality shine through when it's like it actually does represent your brand.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also feel like one place where I get a little bit of like, ooh, is like some accounts will share like their kids' entire soccer game.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, we didn't come here for this.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can totally share that like you're at the soccer game or whatever, like this is on my agenda for the day, a day in the life, whatever.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, please, like, please don't show us the whole soccer game.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, I just want to see like what kind of snacks you pack your kids and then move on.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, where are the orange slices?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to see that kind of spread, but other than that, good.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think you're exactly right with just the balance of it's like, okay, we just don't want to like annoy our audience.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I honestly I would say I think people more so err on the other side of it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're too, they they don't want to share anything.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's been my experience.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are not over sharers, they're like heavy under sharers.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, open up, babe, we want to know about you.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And especially since I'm in the coaching space really specifically for social media managers, I think so often I see in building your own personal brand, it's so easy to attract other social media managers.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the biggest thing I talk about in my programs is uh don't get me wrong, I want to attract other social media managers, but you don't.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's so easy to get in the flow of like sharing analytics all the time and you know, doing those things, and I'm like, your clients don't know what this means.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like so many of you stories and see your analytics screenshots.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: That I love to see that and you love to see that, but your I your local restaurant client who wants to hire you sees this and is like, ah, oh my gosh, what's that?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't even know what that means.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, uh, I've just I don't even look at those.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know where to get those.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you that's actually like a really good point.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do you suggest for social media managers?
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or like I work with a lot of photographers and they attract other photographers.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you create content for your personal brand that attracts your ideal client instead of just everyone in your industry?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So it really comes down to wording, especially again, I'm so specifically in the social media manager world in the personal brand, but I always use the like the example of I see all the time with social media managers, I see them say like, POV, you hired a social media manager and now your engagement has never been better.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: The word engagement means nothing to other people where you're like engagement, like I'm getting married, but like um where if you say like POV, I'm relaxing on the beach knowing my business is still active on social media, like that actually matters to your ideal client while still like you know, that B-roll can be you on the beach, or the B-roll can be like something that's still connecting people to you, but your that message actually makes sense to a client.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just because of when I see that I'm like, oh, you're making engagement better?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Great, I'll follow you, but I'm not your client, your ideal client.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's all in the messaging and the wording and making it not only way simpler, but also more fun and like actually, you know, addressing the things that happen in their lives.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're not they're not they're not up all night being like, oh my engagement.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, I want to go relax, but I have to make these reels.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, or like they do want an increase in engagement, but they don't know that's what they want.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like they they're just like, I want to grow on social media, like they don't really know the nitty-gritty, and they don't have to, like, that's why they're hiring you to to do it for them, it's because like they don't want to know that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, oh my gosh, I love that about the messaging too.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just I think we overcomplicate the shit out of everything as social media managers, but just I think all business owners do it, and it's like no shame I get it, it's because you're in the weeds.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: But like, if you can pull yourself out of that, I feel like that's when your content gets good.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: The simpler the better.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I always say that.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like literally pretend everyone is 12 on Instagram.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, pretend everyone, and I mean that in the most endearing way, but I'm just like when you start using, I even had you know a client once that was using like even honestly when you're like using words like ROI and KPIs and all these things, you just lost everyone who's not in marketing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just lost when you see that, you're like, what are these code words?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so it's like bring it down here, right?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: There was another example I used too where it was like, oh, like POV, like you s you got your 1099 tax forms filed for you, or whatever, you know, these all these forms where instead of you POV, you just saved a bunch of money on your taxes.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's so simple to break it down, but when you're in the thick of it, you're like, I must post about 1099, or I must post about all these crazy numbers, you know.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because then you're just speaking to people in your industry, honestly, because nobody else, nobody else gets it.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: What you're saying.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Also, when I see KPI, I like literally pass away.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hate the acronym.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why, but I'm just like, please no.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't can we just say goals?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, please.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I used it literally like once in a caption.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this feels wrong.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, why am I?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like just trying to prove something.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I doing this?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you want to sound smart too.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of like, yeah, especially if you're a professional, like if you are a tax person, you want to sound professional, but it's like we are so dumb.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't know about taxes, we don't get it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: We we have no idea.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you need to really dumb it down for us.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, exactly.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: The second you start using numbers like, oh, did you file your 45, 69 G?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be like, what?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, did I?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Never heard of her.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, how has your personal brand helped you create this like more agency style or more like build your coaching side of things?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So initially, I so I built the count account initially to get more clients and really start having like just build up my agency and see how it went from there.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: But really quickly, I was like, you know what?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I was also attracting social media managers, and it was just like my teacher brain, and I was like, I'm gonna really lean to the lean into the coaching space and help other social media managers.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it happened really quickly.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then just honestly, naturally, I have clients reach out to me for social media management, and so I'm actually full now at this point.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I was basically like, okay, I can continue to scale this way with my agency, or I can kind of like shift a little bit, like grow a little bit this way, and then lean more into coaching.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I've done.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So right now I'm actually at capacity with my social media management business, which has been amazing because that first year, that you know, that your first year and a half, I'm always like was always churning like, okay, gotta get gotta hire more, gotta get more clients.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really in that agency hustle where now I'm so all about the coaching element, all about really being able to like provide as much many resources as I can for you know for social media managers.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished my first coaching program yesterday, and it was so amazing.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to do another round of it.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the personal brand itself gave me the platform to find, you know, you find those 25 people that were in my program, whereas I would have never been able to find them otherwise.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: So like it gave you your personal brand gave you the flexibility to be like, I can do both.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I feel like I want to do like more coaching, I can, or I can do like more social media.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's like the thing is you don't have to just do one thing.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was getting so stuck in my mind, I'm like, okay, no, if I like lean into coaching, then I'm not doing social media management.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've really been able to find that balance so well, but I also the visibility to do all of it too, which is great.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like people that have personal brands too get nervous.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, I can't change, I can't pivot.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And like you just completely shut that down.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you can.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: You can kind of do whatever you want because you do have the personal brand.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I was so nervous in the beginning with the with pivoting into coaching.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, people are gonna think like because I'm not continually growing this this way that I'm not legitimate in this space, but like that, I just shut it down for myself.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's not true.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm doing all of the things, and because I do this thing, I can be really great at this thing too.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So the balance has been great in the personal brand.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like they support each other, um, both sides of that business.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So for your agency, did you kind of decide to outsource?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hire full-time?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what kind of moves did you make to be able to free yourself, make more time for yourself to do the coaching?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it's funny you say that.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: I actually so I built up and then I kind of built back and had to build up again because I had employees and I am just not designed to have employees, I don't think.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um because I'm so like, oh just get it done when you bought.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'll just do it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you were like so employees was not my route.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: So now I have virtual assistants who have their own business for things, so I don't have to, you know.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been a much better system for my agency.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I have virtual assistants, and that's how I built that out.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they've allowed me to have so much more time in the coaching space too, which has been great.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've had I've seen definitely both ways.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: A couple weeks ago, we had um Impact Media House on, and I think you know her, she's Caroline, she's just absolutely amazing.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: But she's done something similar, she's built out an agency, and all of her people are contractors.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I took a course from coastal collective marketing, and they're more of an agency, and I actually just I have a full-time employee because I felt like I wanted more control, I think.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm so the same as you in that way.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, ah, just do it.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm really like this year, I'm trying to be like using my voice better and being like, no, I can be a strong leader and like teach you, and we can all be moving forward, and you can have autonomy, and also I can like be confident in you at the same time.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So that's super interesting.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Have you found that like having a full-time employee?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you like is in having it in work one person or even you know multiple, do you find that it's been like a better structure for you?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so curious.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really do like it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like it because I personally feel like I would be overwhelmed if I was trying to manage like a graphic designer, a video editor, a copyright.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I had to manage a bunch of different people for different parts of the process, I think for me it just wouldn't work because I would feel that would stress me out and overwhelm me.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: But where I have just like one girl who's full-time, we just are able to like she gets the business from she understands the business from the ground up, and so it's just a lot easier because I'm like here, you do all of these things.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not having to manage like a bunch of people or just manage one person.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's why I like that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, I I think there's pros and cons to both totally, yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I I just I love hearing how other people have things structured out because I would love, yeah, I would love just there being one person, but I'm also like, no, you guys all just do your little things and let me know how it goes.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean I think there's like benefits to that too, because you can have like experts in different areas where like it's like hiring a social media manager, like it's better kind of to hire a social media agency a little bit where it's like we have different strengths and things like that instead of just one person that knows everything.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think both ways are great.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm always just so curious.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what do you do?
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, same.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so what would you what advice would you give someone that wanted to scale?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about SMMs.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if an SMM wanted to scale, what would you tell them?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when it comes, especially when it comes to outsourcing, I like within my program, I was like with outsourcing itself, I'm like, when you are feeling that kind of like almost that like gut chest of like, okay, I'm getting busy, that's the time to outsource.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you're not sleeping, it's too late.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you're gonna obviously you still need to outsource, but like that's I really like have based so much of my coaching on the mistakes I made.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally was like, okay, I'll keep, you know, because it's truly, and like honestly, the idea of them like, okay, I'm giving away like money and I don't know how to like to tell them what to do with it, like I don't know how to tell them how to use their time.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was so anxious about that, so I pushed it off way too late.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so by the time I was like, okay, oh my gosh, I literally just like found a random Joe on the street, and I was like, Yeah, I need help.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um honestly, when it comes to outsourcing and scaling, it's about building your team and building your systems before you really need them.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly, it's when you need them, it's it's so much chaos, and the chaos is what will keep you from scaling sustainably, anyways.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that was so profound because it's true, and scaling is hard.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I it's this little game you're playing because you have to have enough business to you have to take little leaps of faith, I feel like, and be like, I'm growing, I'm I'm projecting to grow continually, so I'm gonna hire a little earlier than I think I need to, because that transitional time where you're bringing on a new employee or a new contractor or a new system, that takes so much time.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if your plate is already full, it's just gonna add to that.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, it's just I get all I can think of is I was just thinking of myself when I was like, oh my gosh, I'm by myself.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I just was like, oh, it's too late.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that you know, being accepting, you might have a month or two where things are a little tight because you did hire someone on, but those tight months are going to be so worth it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because one, you're gonna sleep, and you sleep is gonna make your business better, and then two, you're gonna get be able to scale and feel like, you know, because I feel like with social media management, the thing I've noticed with so many social media managers is the clients come all at once.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the same thing, there's crickets, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh, I have six people that want to work with me.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And no, exactly.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: That is how it is.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've had multiple points in my business where it's been like that, where I've been like a big huge spike, a little bit slow, a big, huge spike, and like, yeah, I mean that I honestly wish I would have hired even sooner.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I did the best I could with what I knew, but like uh it was really hard to teach someone everything that I have learned over years, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Pass off all like those clients, feel comfortable, and also oversee it, you know.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still do the strategy, I still approve all the content, I still am very involved in the process.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: So all of that was like, I was like, I don't even feel like I am scaling because I'm working literally more than I was before.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's so funny.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So even when you're like, you know, the clients and then like passing them on, it was like for me, I was like, there's no way.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm gonna have I was like, no, they're gonna lose it.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way I'm gonna be able to relinquish that control.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one like, I guess, tip is like when it comes to outsourcing the beginning, I feel like to slowly like get rid of the panic, because eventually it does become easier to kind of like relinquish the control, is I always like tell my students now, like outsource tasks where you oversee everything when it goes out.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, obviously, you know, there's people who do that all the time, anyways, but like I always like for for one of my students, I was like, outsource copywriting.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: That way you're gonna see everything before it goes out.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you're so you still have the element of control without actually doing all the work.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like those kinds of tasks, especially if you're like a kind of person who's really nervous about the control element, is just make your eyes will see everything.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just like have the faith in that and have trust in that so you can like just breathe with outsourcing in in general, especially.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that is true for any business owner, not even just social media managers.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I see it with my clients, I see it with other business owners.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even when people hire a social media manager, they're very scared of releasing that control over what goes out on their social media.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like a scalable business, there's no way you can do everything.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: You just how could you?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's like 12 people's jobs, and it's honestly it's like it's a really it's coming to the realization of like, oh, I can't do it all, even though even when you want to, like the strongest business owners are the ones who can like accept that the quickest, and they're like, okay, let's go.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like we gotta get more control because relinquishing control is what's gonna hold you back, or like not being able to relinquish control is what's gonna hold you back, truly.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just a hundred percent agree with that.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I because I'm a control freak, and even I'm like, I can't grow my business if I am doing everything.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm doing everything, how will I?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, uh there's not enough time for me to put a course out, record a course, record a podcast.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no time for me to do that if I'm always just working in the business on every single thing.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Totally, and I think there's even an element of too is like when you're doing everything, you're also, and I can go on a tangent about this, I won't, but it's like you're not taking care of yourself.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like I got to a point where I was like, I'm not even like walking outside.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I haven't even gone outside, and I was like, and it really does affect your business.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like so many working parts that like really come together and like really make outsourcing so important.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when you're not going outside, what like where do you think your creativity is gonna come from?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, and like your clients need that creativity from you, so it's like just in every area you need help, and that's like totally fine.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to explain it last night, even in my coaching call.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's just like more oxygen makes you better, you know, with you know like there's there's I'm sure there's a scientific explanation, but like walking really helps, let me tell you.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it really does.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what was one of your biggest challenges with scaling?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Relinquishing control and like actually letting letting outsourcing happen, but then letting other people juggle things for me.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think I was just I'm like, no, I have to, again, I have to do it all myself.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: I really had an issue with that, but then you know, I again my biggest issue with scaling was really doing things the a way that didn't work for me.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Especially, okay, if I relinquished control, and then I relinquished control in a way that wasn't serving me when I had employees, so I'm like, okay, well, we gotta pull it back and then gotta do it again.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I had some bumps in the roads when I bumps in the road when it came to that.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but once I got that flow, I was just I was gonna roll.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really it was just I guess like my biggest difficulty was finding the flow.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when did you like actually scale?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you said you said you've been doing this for like two years or three?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Two and a half, almost three.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: When did you feel like you had the breakthrough?
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I scaled really quickly, and then so that's why I had to pull back.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really like the basically the second I started my business, I was just going all in.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, unlike I feel like with social media management, there's like pricing is such an issue, and you know, being scared to price a certain way, I was just going for it.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was really I was highballing in people, I was like, oh really?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh god, okay.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so I really had like you're you're like, oh, you'll pay me that?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm just saying, but it was I was like, oh, oh, okay.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I really like had some really high-ticket clients early on, and so I was scaling quickly, even with not a huge client load.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it happened really fast.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would say it then I get I had a pullback, and then at that first year mark was when things were like really scaling sustainably.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm ex-m I'm explaining that right now, okay.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, it does.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think like if you're like listening to this podcast and you're like, oh, I'm struggling to scale, I think that's normal.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's normal to kind of like not know like what is the best way for me.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, should I do 1099?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Should I hire an employee?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where do I need the most help?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for me, this is this is my advice, and then I want to get your take on it too.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like the parts of your business that are frustrating you.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I'm a fan, I'm a generator, and so I don't know if you know about human design, but I'm a generator.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: So my my non-aligned sign is like that I'm frustrated.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I'm like, wherever I'm frustrated in my business, that's where I need to outsource.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, right from the get-go, like I hired a 1099 girl to help me with real prompts because I was like, this to me is like just not fun.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: I hate it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I outsourced it, I outsourced that first.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: But what would you say?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you think it needs to be more ba rooted in like numbers or when you say rooted in numbers, what do you mean?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, do you think you should hire someone based on like financially what makes the most sense?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like what makes the most sense for an ROI, or but you know, like because I guess I could have hired someone to like do my email marketing and that would have like given me maybe more ROI, but instead I chose to hire someone who would help me with my day-to-day because it was frustrating to me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I see what you mean.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: No, I am the same way you mean you said that I am a generator too, and my I was actually just going over this the other day with my alignment coach, and she was like, Yeah, you are frustrated when you are not well.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yep, that's me.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm the same way.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was even so my like analogy for it is I'm like, outsource your broccoli.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have a steak, potato dinner, and you know, all the things, like all the things you know, you want to like you wanna eat the broccoli last, you want to eat the good stuff first, but really like outsource that.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: Outsource the thing that you look at and you're just like, oh, like I'd rather not.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the first thing I always say to outsource because like you basically get to take the thing on off of your to-do list that you keep pushing to the end, anyways.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: So honestly, like outsourcing that for me, and for me, that was captions and copywriting.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, goodbye, see ya.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like so excited about video editing again and creating the reels.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the part I loved about my business.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I'm the same way outsourcing the things, but just like making me feel lighter about my business in general.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you deserve to like want to do your business.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's okay, that like that clip there.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, I feel like you deserve to want exactly like it's so key to enjoy what you're doing because burnout is so real in social media.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: I mean in all business, but in social media, and I think if I was doing captions all day long, every day, like the burnout would happen so quickly for me.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: So getting that out of my space is great.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like social media, this this is probably me being like a victim right now, but I feel like social media is a very difficult industry for burnout because it is changing constantly, just always changing, you're always learning something new.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of it isn't not controllable.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can you can do the fundamentals, you can know who to talk to, you can do the hooks, you can do all the things, and there can still be things that are really outside of your control where if you're maybe a service provider where you're providing like a website design, it's like that's your deliverable, like you're delivering the website, and yeah, your client might have some changes or whatever, but it's like it's really in your control.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like social media is just it's kind of crazy, and it's so new too, that it's like there's just a lot going on.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: The way you said that too, like it's you couldn't have said it any better.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like social media.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes, of course you can have strategy, but it's like the same thing as like two plus two does not equal four.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: It all you know, it's like it is there is a level of like abstract with social media, and like that's a really daunting thing, and I think it's obviously a really like overwhelming thing sometimes too, and like you know, like two plus two equals four and it works out, that's like amazing.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but social media really is and it's and I I feel like it constantly evolving is it's a benefit and it can be it can be a perk at times, um but at the same time, you know, the people who are like who are constantly like you know who are in the field and have to constantly learn new things, it can also be you know so draining at the same time.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: But with new social media managers, I always tell you know, my students, I'm like, I feel like there's so many different online businesses like, oh, like drop shipping's oversaturated now, Etsy's oversaturated.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, social media management is never gonna be oversaturated because it's constantly changing.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: What a social media manager who was great on Reels two years ago has had to learn the same thing that you are now.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that element, but it is it is a lot.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's a lot of social media managers, yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: But also there's just so many businesses, like it it's unlimited.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: It is truly there are no limits in social media management.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I'm like literally not afraid of competition, and I feel like I make friends with social media managers because I'm like, you get it, you understand like the struggle and the hustle and also the benefits of it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we don't have to worry about like stealing each other's clients because like there is so it there's just plenty to go around.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that actually brings me to a question for you.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: So with social media, what do you tell your students when they're like they don't feel like they're offering enough?
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because it's like, yeah, you could just manage Instagram, and I think you said you're like, I only manage one platform for a client, but there's Pinterest, there's TikTok, there's freaking LinkedIn, like Twitter, whatever.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: What is your take on that?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, should you offer it all, or should your clients be hiring different social media managers for different platforms or yeah, no, sorry, I'm still laughing, but they're freaking LinkedIn.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, and that's the too is like I I just happen to be specifically for Instagram management.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have clients that, you know, want to primarily focus on Instagram, and though I've found clients that fit that for me.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I've had conversations with people being like, you expect people to hire different social media managers.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, but I have clients, there are people that focus on one platform, and one platform works for them, and like that's great.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm never gonna convince someone like you need to only be on Instagram so you can be a part of my services.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, I think it's as you build, I think that's where the agency style really comes into play because I think expecting one singular social media manager to be an expert, I'm even, I'm sorry, even in both TikTok and Instagram, that's oh my god, they're so different.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: But as someone who's literally never not on their phone, because you are constantly having to learn, and I honestly was trying to keep up with both in the beginning of my business, and I was like, I'm I'm never gonna be great at both.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: I will be good at both, but like I want to be a great social media manager, so I did focus on one.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: But so I think like with my students, I they got I had one in particular that was like, I want to be of LinkedIn and yeah, I was all these YouTube shorts and just and I'm like, that's great, but it you know, it's up to you, and that's what I love about social media management is you can offer as much as you want.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you can just do Instagram if you want, and you'll find the clients that come along with it.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you know, building up an agency where you can offer more.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is always gonna be an advantage to you, but I think you need people.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think trying to have one person master all of them, or even honestly two, is is a lot.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot to expect of one singular person.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the agency style is really like, you know, again, the best way to go.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've heard great things about the Coastal Collective, you know, of course, and I think that like I I think an agency style is so great if you're able to build that up.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think just starting out, you're doing yourself a disservice if you're offering everything.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: By offering everything, yeah, I think so too.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good to like master one thing and then add something and add something.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what I did over time as well.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Also, my offers are kind of random because like I do podcast editing, which is like not something a lot of social man social media managers do, but it's like I've just known how to do that.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just a skill that I've always had because I've done video editing, I've done audio editing, like I knew how, so like I'd love to offer that, but it's very random.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a good thing.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because you, you know, you offer like something that most social media managers don't.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I think people get overwhelmed by being like, I need to offer like all these things.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And also, if you offer TikTok, are you okay?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because I bless your heart and your soul, but how are you doing that?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: I there's literally a video in the group, in the group call for my program where someone was like, I was like, well, you know, TikTok management, like, you know, like how how should I price like a package for like 90 video 90 videos a month?
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, I was like, I ooh, I was like, are you like hopefully like those clips are coming from a podcast or something because oh my gosh, it's just like TikTok is such a content-heavy platform.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm just like when people come to me and ask for it, I'm like, I can't do that for you because I would have to be you.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: The reason why, and the thing I like with TikTok, aside from you just being like, oh, boom, like you know, because I I think TikTok is such a fun platform.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to manage someone.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm sorry, unless they live next door to me, I can't.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like it.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Unless I literally like, you know, like they are literally right next to me all the time.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: You have to const the the amount of content you have to be constantly generating out for them, unless they know how to like edit the you know, edit the footage themselves.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think it just requires, you know, I think about like what is it, Duolingo and those things.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you just need a team.
• 46:38
  unknown: Like, I don't know.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: For real, like you're gonna need a TikTok team, because this is a lot.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I try to post on TikTok like once a day, and I mean, honestly, it doesn't do very much.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I for sure need to post like three times a day to see growth, and I can just tell already, but I'm like, who has the time for that?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: I guess if I made it a priority, I guess I could do it, but I'm like, it's just not a priority.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm newly on my new TikTok journey again, and I'm just like, oh, I'm so tired.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's only been like two weeks.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm just I can't.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, in the new year, I because I really do think that like there is so much value in it, and there's so many social media managers over there.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: Umnect and like build a community there, but oh my gosh, I really need to take a long nap before I really do it.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just oh my god.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: A long nap.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, do you have like is there anything else you want to share with our friends that are listening?
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like trying to think of the things I'm gonna talk about.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not, that's about outsourcing, cover personal printing.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: We did the thing.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like at point two.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, amazing.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will just wrap it up with this question then.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: What is one piece of advice you wish you could give your younger self?
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I would give my younger self like basically it doesn't have to all make sense.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what I mean by that is like you do not have to be in a certain box.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was my biggest issue growing up.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, I'm gonna be a teacher and I'm gonna get geography and then I'm gonna do this, and then I'm gonna have to have a husband, and I'll have kids, and then I have a dog, and that's it.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, after that, I'm like, I'm gonna be a food blogger, I'm gonna be so Instagram famous is gonna be the best thing, and I'm gonna be fine.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then now I'm just like, even the social media management, it's like I can be you can be so many different things.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, who says you have to be just one?
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't have to all make sense and just like let it happen.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can, you know, you can be a dog walker and a social media manager and a food blogger, you can do all the things.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it doesn't all have to make sense.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that so much because I think it's so true.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we think that there's one right way, we think there's a secret formula, we think there's a certain order of operations, and it's like it's so different for every single person.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: You can do the different things, and you don't have to you don't have to put yourself in a box.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: And there's no timeline, also, just like let it happen, you know.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: Timelines are literally not real.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I learned that after I got divorced, I was like, oh, I lived a whole life.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 23.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I'm starting you now.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's no timelines, like it doesn't make sense.
• 49:32
  unknown: Exactly.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: I really love it.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was so good to have you.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'll make sure and like link all your stuff in the show notes so everyone can go see who you are because you're just amazing.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully we'll have you on again.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: This has been so much fun.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.