Latest / Authentic Living / Great Leaders Have Difficult Conversations Often

Transcript

Great Leaders Have Difficult Conversations Often · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have conscious conversations
• 0:08
  about things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:38
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:38
  It's, Roxanne.
• 0:40
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:42
  This week, I have Beverly Barman King.
• 0:47
  Did I say it right?
• 0:50
  Beverly is a colleague of mine and, the president of the Canadian Association of,
• 0:56
  professional speakers in Toronto, an organization that I recently, joined about a
• 1:01
  year ago, and I feel quite privileged to, you know, be in her company.
• 1:07
  So, Beverly, thanks for coming on today.
• 1:09
  Oh, you're welcome.
• 1:11
  So, Beverly talks beverage is a resiliency expert.
• 1:16
  So I'm gonna read a little bit about her bio, and we're gonna talk a little bit about, her
• 1:20
  principle, which is called the s one's principle She's a she Beverly's been, in the
• 1:26
  field for over 20 years.
• 1:28
  She used her proprietary SOS principle with people and organizations who want to control
• 1:33
  their reactions, distress, build resiliency against life challenges, and live healthy,
• 1:38
  successful lives.
• 1:40
  As a stress and resiliency expert, she is a sought after a media spokesperson and has
• 1:45
  represented high profile brands such as Expedia, TD, insurance and PNG.
• 1:51
  She has made over 500 televisions, appearances and radio appearances on things such as City TV
• 1:58
  and CBC and with national publications from the Toronto Star newspaper to Shadalaine.
• 2:03
  Wow.
• 2:04
  Interesting.
• 2:05
  She's a highly respected speaker and is one of, one of less than 70 Canadians who have her have
• 2:11
  their certified speaking professional designation, which is a big designation, for
• 2:16
  speakers in in, our organization.
• 2:19
  The SOS principle Beverly believes that resiliency can be learned.
• 2:23
  That's why she builds unique presentations covering specific work and life challenges with
• 2:29
  strategies based on her SOS principle.
• 2:33
  Is there anything, Beverly, that you think that you'd like to add that?
• 2:37
  I know sometimes the the bios are written, and it's it's all encompassing, but is there
• 2:41
  anything that you think you'd like to add that, people, listening in to us today might want to
• 2:47
  know?
• 2:48
  Let's see.
• 2:49
  I am a mother of 2 young men who are now going to be in a in a week or so, 22 20.
• 2:57
  I live in the middle of the, cottage country in Ontario, so that's my respite place that I
• 3:04
  traveled back to.
• 3:05
  And, as we were talking earlier, I am a CRADA instructor.
• 3:08
  So, as part of my give back to the community.
• 3:11
  I have, 2 groups of, little boys and girls that, come out for karate with me.
• 3:17
  Wow.
• 3:18
  That's amazing.
• 3:18
  When you just told me that I I didn't know that.
• 3:20
  I I hadn't heard that, in the year I'd been with caps, but I guess it's it's out of a
• 3:25
  different context So, Bradley, I'm, the reason I wanted to invite you on, obviously, you know,
• 3:30
  with my background, I've been a psychotherapist for over 25 years.
• 3:33
  I've worked in corporate consulting, in, wellness strategies with companies, and my
• 3:39
  brand is about authenticity and and staying connected.
• 3:42
  And so Tell me kind of you've been in the field of speaking as a kino for well over 20 years.
• 3:51
  What got you interested, what's your background, and what kind of lured you into
• 3:56
  the, the field of speaking and training.
• 4:00
  It was a it's something that I've never thought that I would do.
• 4:03
  If, if I go back into my history, I hated public speaking.
• 4:08
  And if my English teacher in grade 13 could see me now, would be absolutely amazed that this is
• 4:14
  what I actually do to make money.
• 4:15
  So I fell into this profession.
• 4:18
  I was a consultant with the Canadian Mental Health Association, and they brought me on
• 4:23
  because I was doing stress training for 1st year students in College And Universities.
• 4:29
  And, I was good at putting presentations together.
• 4:34
  They taught me a a lot of the background and information that I needed around mental health
• 4:39
  issues.
• 4:39
  So everything from, you know, depression to suicide awareness and and, everything in
• 4:44
  between.
• 4:45
  And as I was doing that, I was building up their business, and I was also starting, you
• 4:50
  know, I would get people who wanted me to do it outside of the Toronto area it was for the
• 4:54
  Canadian Mental Health Association in Toronto.
• 4:56
  And it it just organically grew to the point where, I was doing presentations across Canada
• 5:03
  on everything from stress to mental health, to what can organizations do to promote that
• 5:07
  mental health within their within their companies and with their employees.
• 5:11
  It's interesting.
• 5:12
  It's amazing to even believe that.
• 5:13
  Right?
• 5:13
  Because when I see you in front of the room, as a a at the last meeting, Yvonne would never
• 5:18
  know that you you didn't like public speaking.
• 5:20
  You're such a natural.
• 5:22
  Oh, thank you.
• 5:24
  So let's talk a little bit about, stress and as as I know in my practice and just from being
• 5:31
  out there in the consulting word that we know that it's a it's the way we perceive things
• 5:36
  that kind of how we interpret events and then ultimately outcome.
• 5:42
  So when you go out there to companies, what what is the main stressors that are, or is
• 5:48
  there are there like a theme of stressors that people, might bring forward to you, to kind of
• 5:53
  consult on?
• 5:55
  I think they're, you know, when we talk about the theme, so big categories, you know, work,
• 6:00
  family, and money would be the top 3.
• 6:02
  But then within those, you know, it's how do I how do I have time for me and for all the
• 6:09
  things that I wanna do so that I'm not feeling burnt out and overwhelmed.
• 6:14
  How do I deal with attitudes and behaviors of the people around me to find that dealing with
• 6:20
  other people tends to be a major source of stress.
• 6:23
  And then, you know, how do I, make it work generally overall.
• 6:30
  So not just about how do I have balance for myself, but how can I make sure that my family
• 6:34
  is being taken care of?
• 6:35
  And how do I make sure that you know, I don't drop the ball on all of this other stuff like
• 6:40
  the chores and all those other kinds of things that need to be done.
• 6:43
  When we talk about in the workplace, you know, it's it's do I have a rhythm?
• 6:47
  I don't mind being busy, and I don't mind working really hard, but how do I have that
• 6:51
  rhythm so it's not just push, push, push, pushed, where I don't even have time to, you
• 6:56
  know, get up out of my chair or go to the bathroom or have lunch or any of those types of
• 7:00
  things.
• 7:00
  So it's about being able to manage all of that in a way that I feel like I'm contributing and
• 7:05
  I'm giving my best and not so much that I'm so tired out that I I don't have a life outside of
• 7:09
  that.
• 7:10
  Right.
• 7:11
  And and what I've, you know, often heard from people is that they go go go go throughout the
• 7:16
  day.
• 7:16
  So by the time they're done and if they're so tired, that by the time they kinda get in that
• 7:21
  car, you know, and if you're in Toronto, your commute's a lot longer, but, you know, and then
• 7:26
  they're basically kind of numb.
• 7:27
  And by the time they get home with, you know, people with children, they're starting all over
• 7:32
  again.
• 7:32
  They're, you know, doing the the activities.
• 7:34
  And then they have to do, you know, pick up, drop off, meals, you know, all that whole
• 7:40
  stuff.
• 7:40
  So a lot of times people they they have no energy.
• 7:44
  They do what they need to do, and then they basically kinda drop, say, at 8:39 o'clock just
• 7:49
  to kinda start it all over again.
• 7:51
  I have Absolutely.
• 7:52
  So it's really about for me.
• 7:53
  It's about helping people to have that rhythm.
• 7:55
  And that's where that SOS principle comes into play.
• 7:59
  And, you know, SOS for me stands for situation, our self, and support.
• 8:02
  So what am I gonna do about the things that I'm causing my stress?
• 8:05
  What am I gonna do to make sure that I stay healthy?
• 8:08
  During those challenging times.
• 8:09
  And then what am I doing for support?
• 8:11
  Who can I talk to?
• 8:12
  Who can I vent to?
• 8:12
  Who can I have fun with?
• 8:14
  You know, what am I doing for social?
• 8:16
  Can and and we have to have strategies in all three of those areas in order to be able to
• 8:21
  manage or stress, be resilient and lead the life that we wanna live
• 8:27
  Do you find when you talk to different sectors, there's different stressors, or do you find
• 8:32
  that the SOS principle can kind of work, you know, because I know when I worked with health
• 8:37
  care, obviously, you're talking about females, then you're talking policing, then you're
• 8:41
  talking base rate.
• 8:43
  It's it's it's there's different stresses obviously in, each environment.
• 8:47
  With the SOS principle, do you find that the application is easier in some environments
• 8:52
  compared to others?
• 8:54
  The SOS principle is is, it came from me looking at all of the different strategies
• 9:00
  over, you know, the 1st, you know, 10 years of my my business and it is universal.
• 9:06
  It doesn't matter if it is a small issue or if it's a major life challenge.
• 9:10
  It doesn't matter if it's at group.
• 9:11
  It's at home, and it doesn't matter if it's health care or, you know, emergency services or
• 9:17
  finance.
• 9:18
  The idea is to be able to ask the the 3 questions.
• 9:21
  And so three questions that go with that are, what am I gonna do about it?
• 9:25
  How am I gonna make sure that I I'm okay?
• 9:27
  What you know, how am I gonna take care of myself and who's there to support me?
• 9:31
  And so when you can ask those questions and find the answers to those, those answers are
• 9:36
  your strategies.
• 9:37
  Those answers are your tools and your tool belt.
• 9:39
  And making sure that you have enough of those tools and a variety of those tools to be able
• 9:43
  to handle all of those situations.
• 9:46
  Makes makes a lot of sense, right, because Like, I I have to call it the ABCs.
• 9:50
  Right?
• 9:50
  So each one of us interprets events.
• 9:53
  Like, something happens.
• 9:54
  I tell myself something about it.
• 9:56
  I respond emotionally, and then the outcome is my behavior.
• 9:59
  And a lot of times people aren't even aware, you know, like, it's the same kind of pattern,
• 10:04
  and they're maybe misinterpreting something.
• 10:07
  So, when when you go into environments, where there may be is a morale issue, let's say.
• 10:16
  And, so, you know, obviously, we all have stress.
• 10:19
  Right?
• 10:19
  We you and I wouldn't have gotten out of bed and you wouldn't and Wawa and back to, you
• 10:24
  know, you know, get back into the stream of things.
• 10:28
  To get out of bed, we obviously have something called use chest, which is positive.
• 10:32
  And then, of course, we have negative stress.
• 10:34
  So with the environment center say that where there's morale issues, how is it, that you kind
• 10:43
  of do approach the same way, or do you kind of work structurally with the organization, in
• 10:49
  different ways that say maybe compared to an environment that's pretty relatively positive.
• 10:54
  I work with both.
• 10:55
  So I work with both the employees find the strategies that are gonna work for them.
• 11:00
  And I work with the leadership teams for them to be able to look at how do what what's
• 11:04
  happening within our team and how can we manage those The the trap that we sometimes fall into
• 11:09
  as leaders is that we're always looking for the big issues, to to try to manage.
• 11:14
  And, you know, whether they're they're implementing a change or, you know, somebody
• 11:19
  has gone off on sick leave or They're looking for big things, but sometimes it's the little
• 11:23
  things that can make all of the difference.
• 11:25
  And I'll give an example.
• 11:26
  I was working with one particular team, and we were talking about the sources of stress And
• 11:31
  one of the things that came up was the stapler.
• 11:34
  It's for, like, the stapler, you know, but but what it came down just for this one particular
• 11:39
  team they didn't have a lot of resources.
• 11:42
  And so they had us one stapler that the whole team was using, and everybody kept trying to
• 11:46
  figure out where the dumps was because it wasn't put back in the right spot.
• 11:50
  And here's, you know, it's a dollar 49 or 2.49, you know, to go to, you know, Staples and pick
• 11:54
  one up.
• 11:55
  But there was processes in place that prevented them from just going out and getting it.
• 12:00
  So there was a lot of red tape and there was, you know, whose job was it and and, you know,
• 12:04
  all of these things.
• 12:05
  And so, like, sometimes when we're looking at things, it's not necessarily the issue.
• 12:10
  So the stapler was part of the issue, but it was also the red tape and the process and and,
• 12:15
  you know, people not putting things back and and there was lots of similar issues to that.
• 12:20
  But sometimes we're trying to solve, like, the big thing.
• 12:23
  And sometimes it's it's the little things that we need And so the best way to do that is as a
• 12:27
  leadership team is to have conversation.
• 12:29
  You know, what is it that's irritating?
• 12:31
  What is it that's frustrating?
• 12:32
  What is it that we can do to make it better?
• 12:34
  And we may not be able to solve everything, but even having the conversations, let the
• 12:39
  employees know that there's understanding that there's care and there's compassion, and we're
• 12:44
  gonna try to do our very best.
• 12:46
  For the employees, being able to vet that out and have somebody listening, it sometimes just
• 12:51
  being able to say it helps them to get it off the chest.
• 12:54
  And then it's about, okay.
• 12:55
  What's the impact that this is having?
• 12:57
  How can we minimize that impact?
• 12:59
  And then what are we gonna do to kinda keep that team morale up?
• 13:02
  What can we do to build those supports?
• 13:04
  What can we do to let let you know and let us know, how we can rely on each other?
• 13:10
  You know, that's that's so true with a lot of the organizations that I've worked with.
• 13:16
  One thing that I found, and I'm just wondering how you kind of work with this is sometimes,
• 13:20
  you know, C C Suites or senior executives, we've been hired for a certain skill sets You
• 13:27
  know, when they communicate, so less is more, you know, it's it's limited time.
• 13:32
  You know, you get the executive one sheet kind of a synopsis of something that's going on.
• 13:37
  And then you have the middle manager who was often the tech the person that's kinda caught
• 13:41
  in the model.
• 13:42
  I often say they're so pivotal, and then you have the front line.
• 13:46
  So when you work with, with organizations, do you work a lot with kind of how they
• 13:51
  communicate to the front line?
• 13:54
  I talk about how important the communication is and how to minimize the stress around it.
• 13:59
  But I'm not a I'm not a communications expert per se.
• 14:03
  So oftentimes, they need somebody to come in and help them manage the challenges or the
• 14:07
  changes and take them through those steps and what are the processes?
• 14:10
  That's not that's not my sweet spot.
• 14:13
  The sweet spot is really about thinking of having them just become more aware of what the
• 14:19
  impact may be.
• 14:20
  And part of that impact, they may be assuming one thing, and it may be a completely different
• 14:24
  thing.
• 14:25
  So if I am my stress response and let's stomp scream and shout her, I'm gonna look for people
• 14:31
  who respond in a similar way, and that's how I'm gonna nice when people are under stress,
• 14:35
  but there is a whole group of people who that's not how they respond.
• 14:38
  You know, they get headaches.
• 14:39
  They get upset stomach.
• 14:40
  They keep it to themselves.
• 14:41
  They withdraw.
• 14:43
  And if if I'm not looking for that, I'm gonna miss that they're also stressed.
• 14:48
  And so part of this is really being aware of the varied responses people have when they're
• 14:54
  stressed, when they're challenged, when they're frustrated.
• 14:57
  And how do you then help to minimize those situations so that that we can start to deal
• 15:03
  with those those health issues.
• 15:05
  They may be physical health issues.
• 15:07
  They may be more along the lines of depression or anxiety, but it's but we need to be aware
• 15:12
  that there's such a big range of things people experience when they get stressed out.
• 15:18
  As a leader, it's being able to recognize that.
• 15:21
  And then when we recognize it, okay.
• 15:22
  We need to respond
• 15:24
  And just so to recognize that, you know, like, we have 3 responses fight flight or freeze.
• 15:29
  But if mine is freeze and yours is flight, hence, a lot of dissension can probably
• 15:35
  develop.
• 15:36
  So you're educating people about what they are, how to maybe potentially recognizing it in
• 15:41
  others and may I probably just have to be, kind and gentle, I would think, in a way, because if
• 15:47
  I'm expecting one response and I'm getting another the perception might be that that
• 15:51
  person doesn't care, but in fact, they're just trying to kind of protect themselves to be able
• 15:56
  to get through the storm the same as, as you are, you know, with in in kind of dialoguing.
• 16:03
  I'll give an example.
• 16:05
  There was a situation where I, was, you know, in an organization, and the organization was
• 16:11
  going through massive, massive changes.
• 16:13
  And the person that I reported to, she froze.
• 16:19
  She literally froze.
• 16:20
  So she was leading her team and, you know, just would would would deliver, like, would kinda
• 16:26
  say bottom line.
• 16:27
  This is what has to get done.
• 16:29
  No backstory.
• 16:30
  No nothing.
• 16:31
  And, of course, like, most of us, there's massive change.
• 16:34
  So we just need to know something, but she was kind of delivering from a perspective based on
• 16:40
  her personality kind of what she she was trying to keep her head above water is is interesting.
• 16:45
  And, you know, the rest of us were freaking out because we were like, okay.
• 16:49
  This is massive change.
• 16:50
  You know, expecting, you know, 10 times the output compared.
• 16:53
  You're taking away resources and we're expected to keep the just like, you know, a lot of,
• 17:00
  changes and, you know, it was it was a merger, so it was huge.
• 17:05
  And in retrospect, you know, most of our most of the team was very, very stressed, and a lot
• 17:12
  of people end up leaving the organization.
• 17:15
  And then eventually what there was a dialogue that I had with this particular, person, and
• 17:19
  she said that she was under such a massive stress, that she had to take time off soon
• 17:25
  after.
• 17:26
  Yeah.
• 17:26
  It's it's interesting, You know, when I talk to leaders, one of the things I talk about is your
• 17:33
  their biggest, their biggest challenge is also the biggest opportunity.
• 17:39
  When they know how people respond, in stressful situations, when they know kind of what gets
• 17:45
  them going and what, you know, stops them from moving forward.
• 17:49
  When they can identify that for each person on their team, that's when they're gonna be the
• 17:52
  most success You know, when they when they know kind of and there's a lot of self discovery
• 17:58
  that needs to happen as well, so they need to be aware k.
• 18:01
  What did they do?
• 18:02
  And they also need to inform their team of that too.
• 18:04
  So, you know, hey, when I get under stress, I may get loud.
• 18:07
  That doesn't mean that I'm angry.
• 18:08
  Doesn't mean that I'm talking, that's just how I have to get rid of some of this emotional
• 18:12
  kind of stuff.
• 18:14
  When we dialogue about how we respond, when we dialogue about what pushes us over that that
• 18:19
  edge, it's it makes things so much clearer.
• 18:22
  It makes it so much easier to work with each other.
• 18:25
  I do have a presentation on handling attitudes and and difficult people.
• 18:29
  And it's about figuring out what does that person need?
• 18:33
  So that person who stops screams and shouts, they it's not that they're trying to take
• 18:38
  something away from somebody else.
• 18:40
  What they're trying to do is they're trying to get control for themselves.
• 18:43
  They're trying to have to bring the situation into control as they're trying to bring
• 18:46
  themselves into control.
• 18:47
  There's other people who need recognition.
• 18:49
  There's other people who need to be heard.
• 18:52
  And so when you kind of have that understanding of the team, and what their needs are, it makes
• 18:58
  things so much easier, and it helps to decrease that stress.
• 19:02
  And I would think that when you're talking about, discovery or or kind of looking at
• 19:06
  yourself in reference to other people, that in and of itself probably just makes people come
• 19:11
  closer.
• 19:12
  Yeah.
• 19:13
  It does.
• 19:13
  I mean, you're you're able to say that that's where the compassion comes from.
• 19:18
  Right?
• 19:18
  That's where we can say, got it.
• 19:20
  You know, I get that there's there's too much on the plate right now.
• 19:24
  What can I do to help?
• 19:26
  You know, when we talk about strategies, it it's learning how to communicate in a way that
• 19:30
  the other person can hear you.
• 19:31
  So part of that is, learning how to say no.
• 19:34
  And, no, does it mean that you're refusing to do something, no means, you know, if if you're
• 19:39
  that yes person who always says, I can do it.
• 19:41
  I can do it, and everybody starts to give stuff to you, no, may need I can't do it now, but I
• 19:46
  can do it in a half an hour from now.
• 19:48
  Or I can't get to it today, but I can get to it tomorrow.
• 19:52
  And being a little bit more realistic about our time frames, being a little bit more realistic
• 19:57
  about how much we can handle, knowing when our level has gotten to the point where Either
• 20:04
  we're going to, have a health issue, or we're gonna have a mental health issue, or it's not
• 20:10
  gonna be conducive to being as productive as we need to be.
• 20:13
  When we know that, then it makes it so much easier for us to be assertive.
• 20:17
  It makes it so much easier for us to delegate or to organize ourselves or to to manage how we
• 20:24
  we approach the workplace.
• 20:27
  Absolutely.
• 20:27
  And then that that's so true.
• 20:29
  You know, because I think it's managing ourselves and recognizing what resources we
• 20:34
  need and in what way do we need it.
• 20:36
  Sometimes know, some people are like, you're right.
• 20:38
  They may just need a kind word or say, okay.
• 20:40
  We're in this together.
• 20:41
  Other people are like, give me the facts, give me the timeline, tell me I'm just basically get
• 20:47
  out of my way.
• 20:48
  So it's it's really kind of knowing the different personalities on your team.
• 20:52
  And, you know, something that I often would hear from employees from frontline is that I
• 20:58
  would often just see my manager when there was an issue.
• 21:03
  So people kinda see the manager coming down the corridor, and their thought is, oh my goodness.
• 21:08
  Who's the who's who who's gonna get talked to today?
• 21:12
  Versus kind of touching base all the time.
• 21:14
  So is that something, again, you see a lot in organizations?
• 21:19
  Sure.
• 21:19
  If we set up our team that way, all we're hearing is negative thoughts, negative
• 21:24
  responses, and and and that becomes your work world.
• 21:28
  Is it is your work world becomes negative, you know, and we can only take so much of that.
• 21:33
  And so as a leader, you need to really be, promoting hearing the positive and not that you
• 21:39
  want just, you know, you know, all smiles and sunshine, but you you want you don't wanna only
• 21:44
  talk to people about the negative.
• 21:46
  So you know, we talk about when you know something about somebody, it makes it easier
• 21:51
  for you to connect on a different level.
• 21:53
  It that doesn't mean that you need to know all of the gritty details about their but you need
• 21:56
  to know what what they enjoy.
• 21:58
  So I talked about I have 2¢.
• 22:01
  You know, so, and when I was, you know, as they were growing up, they were in competitive
• 22:05
  hockey.
• 22:06
  So have somebody like that, like, having those conversations so that you can, engage with that
• 22:14
  person in something positive, not just something that's, you know, here's an issue.
• 22:17
  Here's a problem.
• 22:17
  Here's a challenge.
• 22:18
  What are we gonna do about it?
• 22:20
  So almost kinda getting a pulse on what's happening within your teams.
• 22:24
  And, obviously, work has to get done like your to your point.
• 22:27
  You you yes.
• 22:28
  You have points of connection, but at the end of the day, you know, whatever widget has to
• 22:32
  get out or whatever customer service, whatever product you're pushing out, it has to get done,
• 22:37
  but taking the time just to to kind of know a bit about employees.
• 22:43
  It's helpful.
• 22:43
  It is.
• 22:44
  And also, when people get stressed, it may not be a bit worse.
• 22:49
  Get maybe about the other aspects of their life.
• 22:51
  So if you know a little bit about that and they say something, like, I haven't a new parent.
• 22:55
  I haven't slept in weeks.
• 22:57
  That's going to make, you know, a difference on the way that they handle stuff.
• 23:01
  And so maybe you can then supply them with resources, or maybe you have a an employee
• 23:05
  whose name caught in a caregiving situation.
• 23:08
  You know, with with children and with the elderly parents, and they're really struggling
• 23:11
  with how do I how do I support my my parent?
• 23:15
  You can provide them with resources.
• 23:17
  You don't have to be the resource, but you can be the connector.
• 23:20
  You know, what's available in the community?
• 23:22
  What do we have as far as our EAP?
• 23:23
  What's available in in our benefits package.
• 23:28
  Knowing that kind of information helps you to be the support for your teams that you can, be
• 23:34
  the most productive and successful as you can be.
• 23:37
  Now can I ask a good question, seeing that you work so much with companies do you find that,
• 23:42
  obviously, we know that anxiety and depression is on the rise?
• 23:45
  Right?
• 23:46
  So, what what are companies saying about the rise and what kind of things are people
• 23:53
  implementing or considering doing to kind of you know, circumvent the kind of the high
• 23:59
  levels of short term and long term disability claims that companies are experiencing.
• 24:04
  So the first part I wanna address is it's not necessarily that they're on the rise, so our
• 24:09
  rates are are are still pretty stable.
• 24:11
  The the the, the good news, though, is that people are getting the help and support that
• 24:16
  they need more than they ever have before.
• 24:19
  They're they're feeling more comfortable for bringing those issues forward.
• 24:22
  Whereas before people would just quit and walk away and nobody ever knew that there was
• 24:27
  anything going on.
• 24:29
  You know, and thing.
• 24:30
  They would feel unsupported, and that's when we have, you know, issues around, suicide.
• 24:35
  So for me, that the excitement is and the and the joy is around people, are feeling more
• 24:41
  supported, or they have more resources that they can connect to.
• 24:44
  So as companies, you know, understanding what that looks like from on a scale.
• 24:52
  And so when people get stressed out, how do they respond in that stress?
• 24:56
  And some people will end up with heart attacks and strokes and diabetes and cancer, and are
• 25:00
  you attracting those things?
• 25:01
  And and we've been pretty good about kind of connecting our benefits to things that are
• 25:05
  going on and providing supports.
• 25:06
  Now it's looking at the other aspect.
• 25:10
  What had the stigma in the tablet before, we're starting to remove that so that we can look at,
• 25:14
  you know, what are our our usages around antidepressants and anti anxiety medications
• 25:18
  and And is that on the rise?
• 25:20
  Or or, you know, is there something going on that's that's that may be precipitating those
• 25:24
  kinds of things?
• 25:25
  And even before we get there, we'll if we know that we have people that are vulnerable to
• 25:29
  that, what can we do to support them along the way?
• 25:32
  So do they know that they can come and talk to me?
• 25:35
  You know, the the the saddest part for me is, you know, when people don't feel like they can
• 25:39
  talk to their their colleagues and their their their direct manager or their human resources
• 25:45
  because they're afraid that if they say something, then now that everything that they
• 25:49
  do becomes suspect, they're not, you know, decisions that they made.
• 25:54
  They're not gonna be sound decisions anymore.
• 25:56
  So people could have doubt them or or they won't feel like they're eligible for a
• 26:00
  promotion.
• 26:01
  So they keep all of that stuff hidden.
• 26:03
  And, a good manager is one that says, you know what?
• 26:07
  We know that this is happening.
• 26:08
  And if you're feeling you know, feeling like you're out of control or your emotions or or
• 26:14
  things just don't, you know, right?
• 26:16
  Come and see me.
• 26:17
  You know, we can make accommodations.
• 26:19
  What we're here for.
• 26:20
  And those accommodations, you know, don't necessarily mean that you're gonna end up in
• 26:23
  the hospital.
• 26:24
  They don't necessarily mean that you're gonna be taking medications.
• 26:26
  Those accommodations may mean that we shorten your day for a couple of weeks or or that
• 26:32
  you're allowed to do some work from home or or that we can maybe take some of this off your
• 26:36
  plate so that you can only focus on this for a while.
• 26:39
  So I think the, you know, enlighten companies see that, and they they're starting to to train
• 26:46
  their leaders and their managers on how to have those supportive conversations.
• 26:51
  I think you're I think you're absolutely right.
• 26:53
  And it's, you know, I do a lot of, or have done a lot of work, the university here locally.
• 27:01
  And it's, you know, they there's so much people presenting, and they might say it's anxiety and
• 27:08
  depression to your point, but it may be stress.
• 27:10
  It may be so many other things.
• 27:12
  So I think just just the permissiveness to say to people, you know, it's a w it's about being
• 27:16
  away from home.
• 27:17
  It's about not knowing how to relax.
• 27:20
  It's about not knowing how to unplug those types of things, but, you know, if you don't
• 27:24
  know what it is, you might label it.
• 27:26
  I'm stressed.
• 27:27
  I'm I'm anxious that's maybe why they go to their family physicians because they're not
• 27:31
  sleeping.
• 27:32
  They're down, you know, but, definitely, I think the the openness around the stigma of
• 27:38
  what it is, which is people are coping with a lot more on a daily basis.
• 27:44
  Things that I encourage, leaders to do is, use and I call it Alec.
• 27:49
  So it's a it's a an acronym that stands for us.
• 27:53
  Listen, encourage check-in.
• 27:56
  And if you can start to, you know, just, you know, if you notice differences in behaviors or
• 28:01
  different is an attitude of ask what's going on.
• 28:04
  Listen to the responses.
• 28:05
  Encourage them to kind of, to seek other resources.
• 28:08
  And then check-in.
• 28:10
  It's not just a one and done kind of conversation.
• 28:13
  You're you're checking in.
• 28:14
  You're you're seeing if things are okay.
• 28:16
  And it's not it's not, you know, pushing, pushing, pushing, but it's it's, hey.
• 28:23
  Did you said you were gonna, you know, go and talk to so and so did you talk so.
• 28:26
  Is there anything that I can support you, you know, with right now?
• 28:30
  So I, Beverly, I'm gonna assume that when you work with companies, you might do a keynote,
• 28:37
  but you might also work with, training from your senior executive all the way to the front
• 28:42
  line.
• 28:42
  Is that kind of what some of the training and workshops that you do?
• 28:46
  Yeah.
• 28:46
  I actually most of my business is on, training and workshops within within companies as
• 28:52
  opposed to keynotes, in associations and stuff.
• 28:56
  So for me, I'd rather not that I I don't like doing the keynotes, but I I really like having
• 29:02
  a team together so that they start to get common language, common understanding, looking
• 29:07
  at, at common, strategies that they can use to support each other.
• 29:12
  And, and, for me help having a leadership team who knows what kind of to look for and an
• 29:19
  employee team that knows kind of how to to, use that SOS principle.
• 29:23
  When those come together, that's when we see a lot of changes occur.
• 29:27
  So you would work with them sometimes for upwards of what, 6 months or something?
• 29:31
  Would you would you do trainings and kind of go back in and see how they're doing and bring
• 29:37
  teams together to kind of you know, help them get along better or be able to share a bit
• 29:43
  more.
• 29:44
  Yeah.
• 29:44
  So sometimes it's doing a series of different workshops, and it could be you know, often, I
• 29:50
  start in, if a if a company is just launching their wellness program, it may be going in and
• 29:55
  and starting with a harness in your energy, type workshop.
• 29:58
  So how do you how do you deal with stress that kind of in your workstation and and what are
• 30:02
  some of the hands on strategies?
• 30:03
  And from that, then they they may indicate on the evaluations that they're looking for more
• 30:08
  information on balance or how to deal with difficult people, and then that that would be
• 30:11
  the next step.
• 30:12
  And and it may be something on depression.
• 30:14
  So, for some companies, they'll they'll go all the way through those kind of workshops other
• 30:20
  companies are are already know exactly what they want me to do.
• 30:24
  And, you know, it's what we have a lot of negativity within the company.
• 30:27
  And so they go right to you know, training the leadership team and the employee team on on
• 30:32
  what that looks like and what are some of the strategies.
• 30:34
  And then other companies aren't quite sure.
• 30:35
  So they'll, you know, they'll test things out, and it may be, a year before I go back and see
• 30:41
  them again.
• 30:42
  And so every company is a bit different.
• 30:44
  Sometimes it's a 1, 1 off And sometimes it's, an ongoing basis year over year that I'm I'm
• 30:50
  coming in and doing presentations.
• 30:52
  So with, with leadership, What what are some of the most difficult kind of barriers that
• 31:00
  sometimes let's say you got called in and there is definitely a lack of knowledge around stress
• 31:06
  or, you know, anxiety or depression or whatever it is.
• 31:09
  So you get called in because there's a an issue, but the leadership team maybe isn't
• 31:16
  seeing it in a clear way.
• 31:17
  What what how do you work with it?
• 31:20
  Like, a senior leadership team to kind of I'm gonna use the word, bring them along, or have
• 31:26
  them see it for what it is.
• 31:28
  It's actually fairly easy to bring them along when you start looking at their bottom line.
• 31:34
  And so when you can look at their benefits usage, when you can look at the time off, when
• 31:39
  you look at customer service issues, when you look at productivity issues, job turnover,
• 31:47
  presenteeism, when you can put it into those 2.
• 31:50
  Right.
• 31:50
  Right.
• 31:51
  Then they say, yep.
• 31:52
  We we see all of these things in the payer.
• 31:54
  So you those things.
• 31:55
  You know it's having a negative impact on your bottom line.
• 31:58
  You as a leader then can do something about this.
• 32:01
  It's it's It's not that it's it's not that there's a magic formula for for curing it, but
• 32:10
  there are strategies that we can use that will definitely impact that.
• 32:13
  So if we're being more supportive, if we're being more open, if we're being really clear
• 32:19
  about what the expectations are, if we're being caring and compassionate, all of those things
• 32:25
  together will help to minimize the impact of some of the issues.
• 32:31
  And so you're looking at a business case.
• 32:32
  Basically, you're looking at the incidental apps and says all that stuff and then saying,
• 32:36
  you know, based on this particular year or quarter.
• 32:40
  This is kind of what the loss amount is.
• 32:42
  How do you quantify that with companies?
• 32:47
  Actually, I don't even have to quantify it.
• 32:49
  Usually, it's something that the HR department through their benefits, provider.
• 32:54
  Right.
• 32:54
  Right.
• 32:55
  Can give those hard numbers.
• 32:56
  So it's not me making it up.
• 32:58
  It's it's them providing the information and saying, okay.
• 33:02
  Let's, like, this, but this isn't the only reason.
• 33:04
  And I think that's the other thing is, yeah, we have these hard numbers.
• 33:07
  That's but that can't be the only reason that you do this.
• 33:10
  Mhmm.
• 33:10
  Mhmm.
• 33:11
  Because you and and most companies have somewhere in their mission, vision, and values
• 33:16
  that their employees are their number one asset.
• 33:19
  And if you're trying to achieve that, then you have to find ways of helping them be as
• 33:24
  productive and successful as possible.
• 33:27
  And in order to do that, it's not that we're making life easy.
• 33:31
  We're we're getting rid of the obstacles and the barriers that are that are preventing them
• 33:35
  from being as productive and engaged and successful as possible.
• 33:39
  So I really, that's my role as a leader is to match my employees shine.
• 33:45
  And, you know, look, there's very few people that ever go into a work world and say, I've
• 33:50
  been here to do a crap this crappy job has popped Most people wanna go in and they wanna
• 33:55
  feel good about the work that they do.
• 33:57
  And knowing that they matter, knowing how they fit within the organization, being able to,
• 34:03
  feel connected to the people around them, having periods of calm, all of those things, as
• 34:09
  a leader, if you can manage those, you will have successful and engaged employees.
• 34:15
  It makes it makes so much sense.
• 34:17
  Right?
• 34:17
  Like, I mean, it just it's it's not just like you're you're right.
• 34:20
  It can't it can't be about the bottom line.
• 34:22
  Yes.
• 34:22
  You have to have that frame, but it's really about, like I said, your mission, your vision,
• 34:26
  your values, and and people we all wanna do better at whatever we're doing on work.
• 34:32
  I mean, I think people that are happy, they go over and above, you know, to be able to
• 34:37
  deliver, you know, and I I know having been been a manager at multiple, different
• 34:42
  environments, people are happy.
• 34:44
  You can tell, right, that they You know, you don't have to follow-up you don't have to
• 34:47
  follow-up with them as much.
• 34:48
  They kinda know what's expected of them, but the people that are disgruntled, you know, they
• 34:53
  they're like an ink blot.
• 34:54
  Right?
• 34:55
  They can spread, kind of their their dissension and their discomfort and, you know, what
• 35:01
  they're not happy with.
• 35:02
  And that could be that that grows really quickly.
• 35:05
  Yep.
• 35:06
  And we do recall that negativity is so highly contagious.
• 35:10
  Mhmm.
• 35:10
  And, you know, it you may go in and you may be in a great mood, but you've you hear a whole
• 35:16
  bunch of people that are gacking and talking negative and And you may not have gone in with
• 35:21
  that, but as soon as you could have are exposed to that, you're gonna walk away with that.
• 35:25
  So, being able to understand what motivates people, being able to understand what people
• 35:31
  need from the workplace, being able to understand how to have an environment that
• 35:35
  people feel good is is is the role of the leader.
• 35:42
  You know, we have sometimes you say the soft skills are are these people skills, but the
• 35:47
  soft skills are the the most important thing that a leader can can manage
• 35:53
  Now quick question, in reference to kind of, like, when you're talking about stressors and
• 35:59
  and edge education, and knowledge, and introspection, all all really, really good
• 36:03
  things.
• 36:04
  When you're when you're seeing issues, though, that are kind of leading on to potentially
• 36:09
  going on to other things like actual mental health.
• 36:12
  Is that something that you would go back to the leadership and recommend certain things back to
• 36:18
  them?
• 36:19
  Above different things that have to be implemented?
• 36:23
  What we do here in Canada have the, you know, the psychologically healthy workplace
• 36:27
  recommendations.
• 36:28
  And so for me, though, it's there really isn't a difference between the physical and the
• 36:38
  mental.
• 36:38
  You know, we we we separate it out, but it really, you know, our brain is just an organ in
• 36:42
  our body that and when when it develops something along the lines of depression.
• 36:46
  That's no different than heart disease.
• 36:48
  It's no different than diabetes.
• 36:50
  Something in our body isn't working right.
• 36:52
  And So for me, it's it's understanding that when people are stressed, when people, are
• 36:59
  feeling out of control when they when they don't have the tools in the strategies, these
• 37:03
  things are more likely to happen.
• 37:05
  We all have a genetic predisposition.
• 37:08
  Stress is gonna bring that about.
• 37:10
  And so for some people, like I said, hard to for another person, Crohn's disease, colitis,
• 37:13
  some per somebody else may be an anxiety issue.
• 37:16
  Mhmm.
• 37:17
  So we need to understand that that's the manifestation of of whatever else is going on.
• 37:23
  And it may not necessarily just be at work.
• 37:24
  It mean, like I said, it's it could be all these other things that are happening, and we
• 37:29
  need to find ways of being able to put strategies in place where people feel
• 37:32
  comfortable reaching out, talking about things, getting the help that they need, utilizing
• 37:37
  strategies that are going to be the most effective them.
• 37:40
  And, so when when we see lots of these things going on, going back to those questions, you
• 37:47
  know, are people feeling that they have to hide I'm still feeling like they can't or, you know,
• 37:52
  do they feel comfortable reaching out and and does your benefit plan support that I'm a a
• 37:57
  spokesperson right now for Expedia.
• 37:59
  Okay.
• 38:00
  Expedia, does a survey called vacation deprivation.
• 38:03
  So looking at you know, are people taking a vacation?
• 38:06
  And and my job is to comment on on those results.
• 38:08
  And and, you know, what I say is a an unlikely employer, a good employer is one who's looking
• 38:15
  at the vacation usage and not looking at it to say, that this is an inconvenience but they're
• 38:20
  saying, Hey.
• 38:21
  You know, you haven't taken your vacation yet this year, and we're almost at the end of the
• 38:25
  year.
• 38:25
  What's going on?
• 38:27
  Because we know that we don't want burned out employees.
• 38:29
  Yes.
• 38:30
  It made things easier on the team when somebody's not taking time off, but we also
• 38:34
  know that that can't possibly be good for their mental health, their physical health.
• 38:38
  So we you know, an a late employer is looking at that and saying, you know, you get the
• 38:43
  vacation.
• 38:43
  You need to take the vacation.
• 38:44
  I think one of the worst things it was ever implemented is being is paying people off
• 38:48
  certification.
• 38:49
  Mhmm.
• 38:50
  Good point.
• 38:51
  You know, we're giving them money.
• 38:52
  And, yes, they really need the money, but that's not giving them the downtime.
• 38:56
  That's not giving them the ability to focus on their family or their own health or or just
• 39:02
  taking a break, because we know when people come back to vacation, they're more creative.
• 39:05
  They're they're, better at communicating.
• 39:08
  Like, there's so many benefits from it that, we need to make sure that they're they're
• 39:12
  following that.
• 39:13
  You know, and I work with Morneau Shepell for years.
• 39:16
  And, you know, one thing that's most a lot of companies that, like you said, the the
• 39:21
  enlightened ones is that they looked at the utilization, the higher it was, the better it
• 39:25
  was because what it was showing them was locked people, and it generally was day to day
• 39:31
  problems, Beverly.
• 39:31
  It was like, you know, relationship problems.
• 39:34
  It was work life balance.
• 39:36
  It generally wasn't 5% of the data across Canada was work re actually work related.
• 39:42
  Generally was everything else that was going on in the person's life.
• 39:45
  And, some companies would say, oh, it's it's up well above the norm.
• 39:50
  It's just We wanna keep it below the norm, and other companies would say no triple it because
• 39:55
  to me, that shows me that people are coming forward.
• 39:57
  They're dealing with the day to day problems.
• 40:00
  It's not anything that's catastrophic.
• 40:02
  Right?
• 40:03
  And, they were they're dealing early early prevention versus, you know, them keeping it
• 40:09
  not taking time off, dealing with the stressors, and then it ended up being something
• 40:13
  that ends up making them go off on short term.
• 40:16
  So
• 40:16
  I think you're right that enlighten employers definitely looking at what resources are there.
• 40:21
  How how easy is it for people to get it?
• 40:23
  And, you know, are we making sure that our managers are capable of creating that
• 40:29
  conversation to create that warm transfer.
• 40:31
  I know.
• 40:31
  I mean, easy for people to take that time off or are they making you feel guilty for taking
• 40:36
  that time off.
• 40:36
  Right.
• 40:37
  Right.
• 40:37
  Yeah.
• 40:38
  But we in the workplace, we have the ability to have flex time.
• 40:41
  You know, we've we've moved away from FaceTime productivity, getting things done.
• 40:47
  And and again, an enlightenment employer is looking at that.
• 40:50
  Now not every job can be done that way, but those that can It just allows people to manage
• 40:56
  their schedule in such a way where they don't feel so restricted and they can feel good about
• 41:00
  how they quit put it in, but we also know that people who have that flex time, most people
• 41:05
  actually put in more time into their work than if they were going from, you know, 9 to 5.
• 41:11
  And so there's they get more from them and people feel happier because they have that
• 41:16
  ability.
• 41:17
  One of the other kind of things with that, and I talk about, vacation time, but also a
• 41:22
  lighting companies look at it and go, okay.
• 41:24
  Are we encroaching in on other times?
• 41:26
  And so one of the companies that I really like, what they do is they shut servers off at 5:30.
• 41:32
  So you can you can compose emails, but you can't send emails.
• 41:36
  Right.
• 41:36
  Right.
• 41:37
  That only works if you're a company that's in the same time zone.
• 41:39
  If you've got, you know, offices across the world, that's not gonna necessarily work, but
• 41:44
  but it but what's the message?
• 41:46
  And so are you expected to be available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and answering
• 41:52
  messages If you're the leader, are you sending messages at 2 o'clock in the morning?
• 41:55
  Because you had this great idea, well, that speaks volumes because then people feel like
• 41:59
  they You know, they're waiting.
• 42:01
  You know, and if I don't get back to you right away, are you gonna think that I'm not doing my
• 42:04
  job?
• 42:05
  So having conversations, you may have that great idea, and you may need to send that email
• 42:10
  but can you put a time on it
• 42:12
  that when it arrives?
• 42:13
  Can you let people know, hey.
• 42:14
  I'm gonna send this because I can't get it off my mind, but you don't need to respond.
• 42:19
  Until you get to work the next day.
• 42:21
  Thank you.
• 42:21
  So congruence then congruence from the top all the way to the front line.
• 42:26
  That says, you know, it's not just a policy somewhere and HR stuck away somewhere, but it's
• 42:30
  actually a living document where we you can look at your leaders and say, Oh, wow.
• 42:36
  You know, you're you're you're actually respecting work life balance or you're
• 42:40
  respecting people's time or those types of things.
• 42:42
  So I think that's That's definitely something that I I know when I was in the EAP world was
• 42:47
  very, very important, and they started to have to implement certain policies to have people,
• 42:53
  you know, not sending emails at lots of different times.
• 42:56
  And and then, of course, people get stressed because they'd get up first thing in the
• 43:00
  morning.
• 43:00
  They put on their their computer or their phone, and they, you know, they get, like, 10
• 43:04
  messages before they kind of open their eyes, those types of things.
• 43:07
  That's right.
• 43:07
  And so you know, it is modeling good behavior from the top down from the bottom up.
• 43:14
  And so, you know, what the leader what the leader does you know, what the owner does, the
• 43:19
  the senior management's gonna do is what the, you know, middle man's, which the front line
• 43:23
  they're gonna do.
• 43:24
  And what what's happening in the front line impacts all the way back up.
• 43:28
  So it's it's about conversation and concurrency all the way through.
• 43:32
  Well, Beverly, this has been, an awesome time.
• 43:35
  Now I know, people listening will probably wanna know how they can get it connect with
• 43:39
  you.
• 43:40
  If they have, if they're small companies or even, bigger companies are interested in some
• 43:45
  of the, trainings that you're talking about.
• 43:47
  So can you tell everyone where they can get a hold of you, or what are some of the things
• 43:51
  that you offer through, your training, at with the SOS principle?
• 43:56
  So a couple of things.
• 43:57
  And the website is whoopsmart whoopsmart.com.
• 44:01
  And on there, you can find out more about the presentations.
• 44:04
  You can get a hold of me in that way.
• 44:07
  For companies that are wanting just some background information, I just recently
• 44:11
  launched 4, e learning programs on mental illness, depression, anxiety, and substances.
• 44:19
  And so it and it talks about the Alec model talks about how to it's really focused on how
• 44:25
  to be a supportive, either colleague or leader to to those people.
• 44:29
  So those are definitely available.
• 44:31
  And, blog posting.
• 44:33
  So there's lots of information that goes out every week.
• 44:36
  The other thing that's really new that I'm I I'm having fun with our my Alexa briefings.
• 44:42
  So, you know, you're a little Alexa, and it's apparently gonna be the hot kind of item this
• 44:48
  coming year.
• 44:49
  So I put out a daily tip on kind of mental health related issues.
• 44:53
  So
• 44:54
  Awesome.
• 44:55
  Awesome.
• 44:55
  Well, thank you again.
• 44:57
  And, I I know I've gained, a lot today just by listening to you.
• 45:01
  It kinda reminds me of that world that I've been lived in for a long time.
• 45:05
  And, for anyone listening, you know, just remember that, the more knowledgeable you are
• 45:11
  in reference to your particular style of stress that helps you kind of get what you need by
• 45:17
  going inside and listening, but to also recognize whether it's a work colleague.
• 45:22
  It's a a child, a spouse, the better you're able and aware to kind of get a sense of what
• 45:28
  they're about, then you're able to kind of kind of, re redirect your behavior so that you're
• 45:35
  meeting their needs and vice versa.
• 45:37
  They're meeting yours.
• 45:38
  So again, thanks again, Beverly, for being with us, and, for everyone for tuning in for
• 45:44
  authentic living with Roxanne.
• 45:46
  And if you're wanting more information on me, you can reach me at roxanne.comforward/
• 45:54
  blueprint where you can download a free course and how to get authentically connected to
• 45:58
  yourself.
• 45:59
  So take care, everyone, and we will Talk to you soon.
• 46:02
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 46:07
  healthy change.
• 46:09
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 46:15
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 46:19
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.