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Grading the Nationals internal bullpen options for next season · District Territory

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the District Territory podcast. I'm Eric Shellhouse
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: from Bat Boys Baseball and joining me today, Spencer Nussbaum
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: from The Athletic. Franny is out in the field. He
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: is going to be down in Tampa for game six
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: later today. The Brewers await for the winner of the
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: ALCS in the World Series. But today we'll be talking
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: about the Nationals bullpen and the internal options that they
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: have looking ahead into next season and who do we
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: trust the most. Let's go ahead and kick it off
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: with Eric Tolman. This guy was eating up the money
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: as the season came to an end. It was just
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  Speaker 1: absolute nails. Finished the season with a 2-9-3 ERA across
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: 15 games and 15 and a third innings. Spencer, this
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  Speaker 1: is the first guy that comes to mind for me
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  Speaker 1: when you look at the Nationals bullpen as far as
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: A-S tier of trust. I'd give him a 9 out
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of 10 on my confidence level going into spring training
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  Speaker 1: next season down in the Nats bullpen.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. And this is kind of the way that
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  Speaker 2: I've been thinking about it, um, is kind of in
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  Speaker 2: that S tier, A tier sort of situation. Um, for me,
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  Speaker 2: it's still kind of an A tier, uh, because of
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  Speaker 2: maybe the small sample and the fact that like, when
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: we think about the true S tier relievers, um, we
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  Speaker 2: think about guys who throw a hundred consistently, um, and are,
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: you know, on the saves leaderboards year after year. Um,
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  Speaker 2: But he throws 98 from the left side. I think
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  Speaker 2: the chance he adds more velocity this offseason. And he
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  Speaker 2: was quite impressive, right, especially against left-handed hitting, as we
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: saw on the screen there. And so, yeah, for me,
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  Speaker 2: do I know that he's going to be the Nationals'
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  Speaker 2: closer next year? I would probably actually bet against that.
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  Speaker 2: But if you ask people who I think could spend
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  Speaker 2: the entire year in the Nationals' bullpen and potentially end
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  Speaker 2: up with some saves at the end of the year,
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  Speaker 2: he checks basically every box other than experience, which is
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  Speaker 2: really cool to see.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely has the stuff down there. And as
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  Speaker 1: you mentioned, incredibly tough on left-handers. But coming into spring training,
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  Speaker 1: is there someone that jumps off internally that you think
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  Speaker 1: might have a better chance at that closer's role or
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  Speaker 1: get more opportunities early on?
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  Speaker 2: So the two ways I would put it is first
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  Speaker 2: and foremost, I think an external option. Gun to my
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  Speaker 2: head would be the most likely option. option to close. Again,
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  Speaker 2: we still don't know exactly how the Nationals will navigate
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  Speaker 2: free agency, but they have money to spend and it
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  Speaker 2: would feel like they would at least want some experience
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  Speaker 2: back there. The second option, and this is one that
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  Speaker 2: we will, I'm sure, spend a lot of the offseason
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  Speaker 2: talking over, is Harleen Susana, right? Where I still have
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the impression and inclination that the Nationals will have him
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  Speaker 2: be a starter next season. Nothing they have said has
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  Speaker 2: indicated otherwise, but if we're asking who could be their
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  Speaker 2: closer next year or who could end the year with
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  Speaker 2: the most amount of saves in terms of internal options, um,
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  Speaker 2: he might be first on my list, right. Where, um,
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  Speaker 2: I still think he'll start, but he has the stuff. Um,
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  Speaker 2: and when I say he has the stuff, as we
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  Speaker 2: all know, he throws one Oh three, the slider is
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: even nastier. Um, my understanding is they're breaking that into
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  Speaker 2: two different pitches. As I think someone from baseball America
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  Speaker 2: put out, um, And so, yeah, like he he he
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  Speaker 2: has the look of a closer. Right. And so it's
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  Speaker 2: it's probably him at the top of that list. And
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  Speaker 2: then probably Yovani Cruz as the next name up for
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  Speaker 2: for someone of that ilk.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah. What Susana has been doing this offseason in the
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: Arizona fall week has been exciting to watch as well.
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  Speaker 1: He's been lighting up. hitters there all season long. Yovani
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  Speaker 1: Cruz is another interesting name. He got some innings in
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  Speaker 1: the Nats bullpen late last season. He definitely has some
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  Speaker 1: incredible stuff down there, but it was just a matter
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  Speaker 1: of getting located in the zone at times, I think,
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  Speaker 1: and he maybe just didn't feel comfortable, didn't have quite
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  Speaker 1: enough big league experience underneath his belt, but maybe that
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  Speaker 1: comes in time with more experience next season. He's definitely
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  Speaker 1: an intriguing candidate as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. And when we watch the playoffs, right, and
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  Speaker 2: we watch like let's say the Brewers, we can see
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  Speaker 2: their sixth inning arms throw 100, right? Or the way
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: you watch the Dodgers, their fifth inning, all of their
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  Speaker 2: guys throw either crazy and it's 94 or just electric
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  Speaker 2: at 100, 101. And so Cruz, I think on a
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  Speaker 2: lot of teams, probably wouldn't be up for that closer role,
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: but because he has that look, the stuff, and especially
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  Speaker 2: at the end of the season, the demeanor that maybe
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  Speaker 2: we didn't see earlier in his Nationals tenure, I don't
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  Speaker 2: see any reason why he couldn't be a closer in
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  Speaker 2: the future, which again, it's probably him and Tolman as
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  Speaker 2: the only internal options where I say that and maybe
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  Speaker 2: Rebolt on the periphery, maybe some minor league guys otherwise.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a great point you bring up. And
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  Speaker 2: I do think just like watching the postseason hour after hour,
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  Speaker 2: day after day, it's like Yovani Cruz looks like he
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  Speaker 2: belongs in these other bullpens. So why shouldn't he be,
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  Speaker 2: you know, in the Nationals pen? Yeah.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I want to come back to Orlando Revolta, but really quickly,
• 5:16
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• 5:30
  Speaker 1: give a shout out to the sponsor of today's episode
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: as well. Folks, we got NBA kickoff later this week.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: It's Alexander Ovechkin's final season in the DMV. And if
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  Speaker 1: it later. Thank you, SeatGeek. As we come back here, Spencer,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: you mentioned Orlando Robalta right before the break. He had
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: an interesting season last year. he was remarkably effective at, uh,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: coming in and getting guys out with runners on base. Uh,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: but he had a, uh, overall a very effective season,
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  Speaker 1: a three, seven, seven ERA. Um, he had a little
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: bit of control issues maybe down there in August, July,
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  Speaker 1: but really started to come back into his own later
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  Speaker 1: in the season. He's a guy that I would probably
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  Speaker 1: trust in the seventh or eighth inning down there in
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  Speaker 1: the NASP bullpen.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly how I'd put it. Right. Um, and
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  Speaker 2: whatever we're talking about seventh, eighth inning, we know the
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  Speaker 2: nationals use guys in different roles. So it's more like
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  Speaker 2: not against the heart of an order, but against, you know, the,
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  Speaker 2: the next men up, so to speak. Um, the, I'll
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  Speaker 2: start with the caveat and the demerit, and it's really
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  Speaker 2: not that much of one. Um, but there wasn't a
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  Speaker 2: ton of swing, swing and miss there. I think as
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  Speaker 2: it says, there are 42 strikeouts in 43 innings, ideally
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  Speaker 2: from your ninth inning guy, you want more width than that. Um,
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  Speaker 2: all of that is to say again, exceptional in tight spots,
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  Speaker 2: exceptional in leverage, which we did not often see from
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  Speaker 2: other nationals relievers. It's just part of why we're having
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  Speaker 2: this conversation. Right. But no, just exactly looks like what
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  Speaker 2: you want from a seventh, eighth inning bridge guy. I'm
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  Speaker 2: not going to make you nervous, not going to make
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  Speaker 2: you sweat. We'll get a good helping the ground balls.
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  Speaker 2: Doesn't walk a lot of guys. And when he does
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  Speaker 2: walk guys, he generally finds his way out of it.
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  Speaker 2: How much that's a repeatable skill, I'm not totally sure,
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  Speaker 2: at least for season over season. But yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: he has the stuff in command of at least medium
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  Speaker 2: leverage pitcher, if not higher. And so, yeah, I think
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  Speaker 2: he honestly, out of everyone in the bullpen, if everyone
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  Speaker 2: were to stay healthy, is the most likely to probably
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  Speaker 2: stay in the Nationals bullpen for the whole year, just
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  Speaker 2: because of the track record there. But as we've seen,
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  Speaker 2: relief pitching is volatile, so you can't say that for certain.
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  Speaker 2: But a great season for him was one of those
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  Speaker 2: risers that we didn't think a lot about until the
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  Speaker 2: season was over. And it was like, oh, yeah, this
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  Speaker 2: guy's a part of the Nationals' future, at least looks
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  Speaker 2: like it. So, yeah, definitely seven-day thinning guy next year
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  Speaker 2: wouldn't shock.
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  Speaker 1: Me at all.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: There's a lot of other names that start to come
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  Speaker 1: up on this list here, and I have a little
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  Speaker 1: difficulty sorting through them. Are there other guys that start
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  Speaker 1: to come up, I guess, as like, oh, I would
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  Speaker 1: trust him in a 6th, 7th, 8th inning situation. Josiah
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  Speaker 1: Gray looked good towards the end of the year. Jack
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  Speaker 1: Sinclair came up and did some interesting things. Is there
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  Speaker 1: anyone in particular that you like more than the others?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'll start reading from this list a
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  Speaker 2: little bit to bracket out who I think is in
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  Speaker 2: like that. next tier um of trust and upside um
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  Speaker 2: i think will dion is there even if he's potentially
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  Speaker 2: used in a high leverage role we saw him get
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  Speaker 2: both handed hitters out the stuff was really good even
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  Speaker 2: though it looks like 91 on the screen um it's
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  Speaker 2: a it was really hard for hitters to touch um
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  Speaker 2: also from that group. I mean, as you said, Jackson Claire, right.
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  Speaker 2: He's another one where there may even be more velocity
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  Speaker 2: in the tank. And so if he's sitting 98 next year, um,
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  Speaker 2: that is a immediate six, seventh bridge sort of guy. Um,
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  Speaker 2: and then at the bottom, right. We were even texting
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: about this the other day, Ben Grable, um, and Joe
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Classy as well two guys who were acquired at the
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: deadline um are two pitchers who have the sort of
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  Speaker 2: um I mean I hate to keep using the word
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: stuff but I don't have a letter for it um
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  Speaker 2: two guys who have the stuff to you know pitch
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  Speaker 2: in a major league bullpen um and so yeah those
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  Speaker 2: those are maybe the tier two guys I'm trying to
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  Speaker 2: think if there's anyone else I forgot um but really
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  Speaker 2: I think that's the the main crux of the list
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  Speaker 2: right yeah and I think that's everyone who I think
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  Speaker 2: of in those spots. And sure, like, could you see
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Clayton Beater coming back and, you know, striking out 10
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: or 11 per nine like he did when he was
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: at his best? Sure. Could you see? I wouldn't necessarily
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  Speaker 2: vote Josiah Gray in that role because I think he's
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  Speaker 2: more of like a long man or even potentially a
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: starter again. Like Eddie Jean pitched well when he was
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: up with the Nationals. Alex Clemmy is a long shot.
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  Speaker 2: Not someone who I'm super high on, but like, again,
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  Speaker 2: an offseason away, you could see it. But there are
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  Speaker 2: enough arms where you say, OK, if the Nationals sort
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  Speaker 2: out their two or three back end roles, their eighth,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: ninth inning guys, all of a sudden you have 12
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  Speaker 2: interesting arms competing for six spots. And you could even
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: say eight interesting arms competing for four spots if you
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  Speaker 2: fill out the next few. And so, yeah, I think
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  Speaker 2: the Nationals bullpen is far away. I don't want to
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  Speaker 2: say that it will take one offseason to fix. I
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: still think they need more depth. But it's in such
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: a better position than it was at the start of
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: the season. And especially if they add a couple of
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: free agents, right, as we've talked about and will continue
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: talking about. You start to piece together something that could
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: be pretty interesting next year.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they definitely seem to be in a better position
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  Speaker 1: than they were at the start of last season. You
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  Speaker 1: mentioned Clayton Beater there. I think he is a really
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: interesting name. you saw how good he could be at
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the start of last season. And I know the season
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: didn't end the way that he wanted it to. He
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: was demoted to AAA Rochester and was sent down to
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: figure some things out at the end of the season.
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  Speaker 1: But still over 50 games, he had 47 strikeouts. If
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  Speaker 1: he can just get that up a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: in pitching the way he was at the start of
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  Speaker 1: the season, I think he could be a nice middle
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: inning weapon for the Nationals down there in the bullpen.
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  Speaker 1: And Josiah Gray, I would agree on that front, too.
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  Speaker 1: Probably more of like a long relief sort of guy
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  Speaker 1: if a starter gets bounced early. But what we saw
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  Speaker 1: from him down the stretch was also phenomenal and gives
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  Speaker 1: you a lot of optimism going into next season.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: It does, right? And this is the thing that we'll
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: keep coming back to is there is so much volatility.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And that's why I personally like to bank on stuff, right?
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  Speaker 2: Because that doesn't change as much year over year as
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: the actual production does. But it's a pretty good indicator
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: of what's to come um and so like Brad Lord
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: for instance has been great for the Nationals um over
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: the last couple of years and I think probably has
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  Speaker 2: a role in the Nationals future I also like he
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: deserved to get some chances closing games for the Nationals
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  Speaker 2: this year he probably won't get that chance again if
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: the Nationals um make any sort of additions or have
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: any sort of real progress um but you do need
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: some stability some Josiah Gray's some Brad Lord's to fill
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: out a bullpen, not just fill out, but really kind
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: of step up when your starter doesn't go the length
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: that you need. And so I wouldn't, based on how
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: the Nationals operated this year, I wouldn't be surprised if
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: they wanted two to three inning guys. And that's why
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I think of like Brad Lord, Josiah Gray, Luis Perales,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Riley Cornelio. There will be a number of guys competing
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: for those spots. Right. And so that's why it's again,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: it's it's competition, which the National did not have much
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: of coming into the season. And so, yeah, there's a
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: lot to think through and kind of parse out.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Brad Lord was fantastic last season, especially in the
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: opener's role. Exciting to see what he might bring next season.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: But I agree the days of him closing maybe over
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: in Washington might just be in exclusively as a reliever's role.
• 14:31
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• 14:33
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• 14:37
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• 14:49
  Speaker 1: in the off season. Spencer, is there anything else you
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: want to toss in here as we can begin to
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: wrap up any messages for Franny down at the ALCS?
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, no, I hope Franny has a terrible time. Um, no, uh,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: Nothing really, again, just like this will not be the
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: last time we talk about this bullpen because it's probably
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: the most glaring area of weakness. And because there are
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: probably by the time we hit spring training, 20 names
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: will be in competition spots, which will be really fun
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: to figure out exactly what the national is thinking and
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: how those guys show up. Right. And so this is
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: stuff I think about all day long. And I hope
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that fans are at least semi-interested in it because it
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: does seem like the sort of chasm they need to,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: you know, close a little bit. Uh, so yeah, that's,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: that's basically all I got. But again, uh, Franny, I
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: hope you have a terrible time if you listen.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I, uh, hope fans keep on listening cause we'll
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: keep on talking about it. Franny, uh, hope you're splitting
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: eyeballs between ALCS game six and Monday night football with
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: commanders and 49ers too. Hopefully we get to jaw about
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that at some point in the future episode, but we
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: will see you later in the week. Take care of yourselves, everybody. Peace.