Latest / F*ck, I’m Nearly 50! / Friendship in Midlife: We Keep Saying “Let’s Catch Up” | Maddie Marsh | F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!

Transcript

Friendship in Midlife: We Keep Saying “Let’s Catch Up” | Maddie Marsh | F*ck, I’m Nearly 50! · F*ck, I’m Nearly 50!

• 0:00
  Dominique Hind: Hi, I'm Dom Hind and F*ck, I'm nearly 50.
• 0:03
  Dominique Hind: Actually, I'm 47 and a few months. But who's counting?
• 0:07
  Dominique Hind: Okay, I am, and let's be honest, if you're here listening, you probably are too, because midlife sneaks up on you. One day you're wearing low rise jeans at cargo bar with a Smirnoff black in your hand, and the next you're Googling, is it perimenopause, or am I just ragey While whispering affirmations into your keep cup.
• 0:29
  Dominique Hind: And one of the wildest parts of midlife friendship, you start life surrounded by people who just happen to be there, schoolmates, uni housemates, work colleagues, exhausted fellow, parents who bond with you at a soft Play Centre or during nap times. Some of these friendships fizzle, some of them stick, and some become your forever people. They're the ones who've seen all versions of you, the fun you, the broken you, the trying to hold it all together you and they still want in today, I've got one of my forever people on the couch.
• 1:02
  Dominique Hind: She's been through it all with me, newborn haze, identity crisis, career pivots, shitty dinners, magic moments, heartbreak, healing and some serious retail therapy. She's the kind of friend who'll say the hard stuff with love, but call out the bullshit and make sure that she turns up on your doorstep when you need it. So let's get into it, because fuck, I'm nearly 50, and isn't it amazing. But disclaimer is, I have got a cold and a really raspy voice, so this episode is not what I normally sound like.
• 1:39
  Dominique Hind: Thank you for listening.
• 1:42
  Maddie Marsh: You Maddie
• 1:52
  Dominique Hind: marsh and I met in the most classic mid 30s way at mother's group, bleary eyed, sleep deprived and wondering how the actual fuck we got here, latest and Spencer were just eight weeks old. She noticed my pink shoes, and I noticed her bright, unfiltered energy. Then came the question that sealed it. Wait, do you not own a handbag? Nope, just plastic bags and recycling shopping totes. So somehow, from there, that's all it took. We clicked, and that was that. Back then I lived in Mosman, so it was all spontaneous cuppas, couch chats while the babies maybe napped or ate yoghurt and stood on chairs and just chaotic plate days. Now I'm over the other side of the bridge, all the way in Watson's Bay, and our friendship has evolved into a full blown day festivals when we get all the crew together, Think Water Parks, yum cha, where the kids are obsessed about rainbow jelly legs, trees, skitties and followed by bowling, arcade games and milkshakes. Chaos, laughter, always loud, always fun. Leighton Spencer bow and of course, Hallie are thick as thieves. They've even started a business called Big burp enterprises, named after an Ikea shark who is its mascot. And there's merch newsletter, and it's actually a thing. But beyond the kids and the crazy, Maddie has been my Lighthouse through the storm, new motherhood, identity, Wobblies career pivots, the tears, the joy, all of it. She's loud, she's dramatic. She's an only child who doesn't like to share snacks, and she is one of the best humans I know. So Maddie, welcome to fuck I'm nearly 50. I know how you introduce yourself at kids parties, but today I want the full LinkedIn treatment go on. Give us your meta overview. I feel like we
• 4:03
  Unknown: shouldn't ignore the fact that you used to make everyone wear name tags at kids parties forever. And I feel like your children got cakes at the parties because of me. So I feel like that is way better than my full LinkedIn intro. It has been such a wild ride. I mean, honestly, the fact that you throw in skitties in the intro is mortifying. I feel like that's definitely got to cut out. But, you know, I think, I think one of the things that meant that we clicked from the get go is, yes, we had little kids, and they were the same age, and we were sleep deprived, and it was mental. But I remember this moment where we sat in the mothers group cafe after that weird moment in the community hall, and we both realised we worked in advertising, and it was like this shortcut to, okay, you're probably also crazy, but I'm gonna love you.
• 4:51
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, true, which is, yeah, very true, but yeah, I agree. And that was probably it did short circuit it. And it did mean that a lot of. Conversations, we had something to base it onto, yeah
• 5:02
  Maddie Marsh: and a little bit more substance than just how much sleep Did you not get last night? Yes,
• 5:06
  Dominique Hind: or is your child actually eating or
• 5:10
  Maddie Marsh: not eating? Or, in my child's case, not rolling ever
• 5:15
  Dominique Hind: or latent, just like crawling too quickly or doing everything too quickly anyway. Tell me about you, though, you as a person.
• 5:23
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I think the only child piece is really important, because I know we're going to talk about friendships, and I think, you know, we've talked about this a lot, I think particularly when you don't have a big family, from a sibling point of view, or maybe have siblings and they meet certain needs, but not all your needs, I think you end up building this, like chosen family around you, and I think that's certainly really core to who I am, is, how do you build a community around you for all different parts of your life, the people that you truly consider your family, and to your point is like, when the time's awesome and when the shit hits the fan, who are Those people that you're going to call? And there's not many of those people that really when the going gets super tough, who are you going to pick up and call and who's going to rock up on your doorstep and really help you through some pretty tricky times? Yep, yep.
• 6:12
  Dominique Hind: And I think that's yeah, definitely where we have been there for each other.
• 6:18
  Dominique Hind: And I do think that, yeah, the chosen family is such a big thing, particularly not even for an only child, but even when you've moved away from your family as well, it is you do need to build that network of people, and it's great because that's what we're talking about today, is friendships. So do you remember the moment that we actually did mate?
• 6:37
  Maddie Marsh: I fully remember. I don't know if the shoes were pink. I feel like maybe they were turquoise. I don't think you were as bright coloured then as you were now, but there was definitely a bright coloured shoe involved. And as we've laughed about a lot, most people were in leggings, and leggings are not pants. So, you know, there was definitely a shared love of that. I think you and I were on the other side of the circle to each other. And I remember thinking that you were far more put together than most people in that room, and probably sort of scarily So, right? I remember that Spencer would basically sleep on me the entire meeting in that weird community hall. And I remember that you just seemed really composed and on top of it. And I think I probably thought maybe I could feel more on top of it if I was friends with you. But little did I know that you were just like this extraordinary, super person who just was on top of everything all the time and is also just a
• 7:33
  Dominique Hind: little bit scary. Let's stop there. I'm on top mostly probably scary, laughably scary. Okay, so that was the first impression. Then, yep, Oh, wow.
• 7:44
  Maddie Marsh: No, I think, no, no, not lovably scary, but just that, you were very you were composed, you were in control.
• 7:50
  Maddie Marsh: You sent to know what was going on, but at the same time and like, that was like the across the room, yeah, okay. And then, I think, then when we connected, just overflowing with energy and positivity and just, you know, in that classic, like radiator, like someone that I just want to be with.
• 8:08
  Dominique Hind: Okay, good. I'm happy with that. Why do you think newborn friendships are so intense?
• 8:14
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I think the whole thing is so far out, isn't it, right? And I think especially for you and I, it was the first child for us both, we'd both come from really hectic jobs. You were like, leading your own business, like there was so much, and then all of a sudden your world comes to like, this screaming halt, and you actually have no control over anything. And I think for both you and I, we both have high control needs, right? So suddenly you're thrown into this chaos. And I think it's like, you need, you need the support, but you also need the like, friendship and the laughter to get you through, because it is so chaotic. Oh, and it's hard.
• 8:54
  Maddie Marsh: It's hard. Everyone goes, Oh, my god. It's so beautiful. And my world felt so complete. And I'm like, Really, I'm just exhausted. And I, you know, like, things that I think everyone makes out that should be really easy, like feeding for me, like, really hard. So I think it's that, you know, it's so confronting, because I think you want to be a high achiever, yeah, and you want to nail parenting, and you can't, right?
• 9:21
  Maddie Marsh: And then you think you've nailed it, and something else comes out, and you're like, I've definitely not nailed this.
• 9:27
  Dominique Hind: What is the secret? And we have had many discussions about this, to keeping a friendship going when life gets in the way.
• 9:36
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I think it is.
• 9:39
  Maddie Marsh: We've talked about this a lot, and I think it's there's depth, but then there's also practicalities, yeah, so I think the depth is and I think, you know, you and I bonded, because pretty randomly, right? Like our kids were born within three days of each other, and it was just like coinkydink, and let's be honest, we've stayed awesome mates, yeah, but if you find one awesome person. Person through a mother screen, I'd say that I win, right? Absolutely, absolutely. I think, I think that, in itself, is not enough, right? And I think what has helped endure our friendship, and I think what is really important to friendships enduring, is you've got to have enough depth, which means, like, you're willing to be vulnerable, and you're willing to share, and you're willing to, yes, rejoice in the highs, but also absolutely rock in the corner, in the lows. But I also think it does take work, and it's a bit like all relationships, right?
• 10:30
  Maddie Marsh: Like jokes aside about how I introduce myself at work or at a kid's party, it's always about people and your connection. And it's one of those things that I think you do have to water. You do have to nurture. And I think, you know, you and I have talked a lot, I think people can come and go, Yeah, and I think you can go through periods where you're more really, like, almost daily, tightly synced. And then you can go through periods where that elasticity is longer, and same time text message. If you don't know what's going on in someone's life in the core moments that matter, then I probably question how deep or true your friendship really is.
• 11:13
  Maddie Marsh: But I do think it takes more work than probably people let on. Yeah, and it does require, I think, like some common values, yes, and some common beliefs, yeah,
• 11:25
  Dominique Hind: I agree. And also it is like with friendship, and it is really interesting where I do think there are different types of friendships
• 11:33
  Maddie Marsh: as well. I think there are different types of friendships, and I think there are different friendships for different times, yes, now in saying that we have a really enduring friendship. And I think even in our friendship, we've had moments where we've been like, hyper, daily, tight and then like, stretch it a bit further, especially when you moved all the way to Watson's Bay, all the way to Watson's Bay, but at the same time, it's like some people, I think, value friendships more than others?
• 12:03
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, I agree, and I think some people probably have more capacity to be able to care and think for others, and that's okay. And I think that's probably been one of my harder journeys when it comes to friendships. I think particularly because there's a small cohort of my friends who are very much that chosen family, but it's like when you know you would do almost anything for that person, you have to accept that that's not always reciprocated, and you can't always take that like so to the core of you or your friendship, you probably sometimes just need it to fly through to the keeper and see what happens on the flip side,
• 12:43
  Dominique Hind: which, because you do not know what is happening in their life at that point in time, exactly. And you know you just being there, and even that occasional text message, even if you don't get a reply, will be something that it'll come out in the wash,
• 12:57
  Maddie Marsh: and like care and thoughtfulness. And I think, you know, particularly, I think particularly when people are going through the hard stuff, right? And I think to your question around like, what is it that connects you? I think when you have really little kids, it's because you're going through so much hard stuff, and you actually just need a sounding board to be like, are you two going through this? And maybe, what did you do that made it easier, right? Yeah, but I think there's something in that, like core moment of the vulnerability that I think does connect you. And not to say that that's the only way in which you can have that, like, you know, I've got a couple of really great mates who I've known for 30 years, from high school or even before that, in dance. And I think it's like, you do go through the ebbs and flows, but if you still have a bloody great time together and you care deeply about each other, it's awesome. And equally, sometimes it's time to probably shed the skin and let some people go. And that's not a negative thing.
• 13:55
  Maddie Marsh: It's probably just accepting that maybe that particular chapter of friendship is
• 13:58
  Dominique Hind: closed. Yeah, I think that's a big
• 14:00
  Maddie Marsh: thing, particularly as you get older, you go and you have less time. As you get older, totally you you are stretched
• 14:06
  Dominique Hind: so thin it's hard to connect with the people that are you've chosen family
• 14:11
  Maddie Marsh: and the people that really matter.
• 14:13
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, and it is if the effort's not put in, or it's not reciprocated, or, you know, it's time, or even if it's hard, if it's hard and you feel drained at the end of an interaction that should, you know, decider that you need to let it go.
• 14:32
  Maddie Marsh: And I think if you're drained every time, right? So I think, like, you know, whether or not it's like this, zappers and zappers or the radiators and drains, right? You can have moments, and we've had so many right, where I've probably drained you, and you've very occasionally drained me, right?
• 14:50
  Maddie Marsh: And that's just totally part of it, absolutely. But if time and time and time again, you feel like it is like all give and all give, and there's nothing. Comes back. And I've definitely had instances where I've felt that Yep, and I think you've got to call it
• 15:06
  Dominique Hind: Yeah. And do you think you call it to them, or is it that you just do the ghosting and let it drift away?
• 15:14
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I feel like you could probably do both, and I've probably got stories where maybe I've done both. I definitely take things really personally, like the super sensitive Susan in me, right? We know that this has and I feel like maybe as I edge closer, not as close to you as 50, but closer to 50, you're probably the maturity comes through in that, and you probably have started to learn to be a bit less sensitive all the time, but at the same time, it's like, if it's not bringing you joy, you've got to get rid of it. You've got to shake it off, yeah? Or maybe not shake it off, maybe just put it on the back burner for a bit.
• 15:49
  Dominique Hind: Yeah. And it's interesting. So I, so I, you know, even doing the friendship cull or clean up. But usually I love it girl. I love going through stuff and just getting rid of it, like, get it out of my life. Now you should see the stuff that I need to get out anyway, but I can remember there have only been one or two times it probably even just one where I have properly ghosted someone, like, properly ghosted someone other times. Because, you know what? I should have told her that I was sick of her shit, yeah, and sick of her negativity and well, especially
• 16:32
  Maddie Marsh: when you are the embodiment of positivity, right?
• 16:36
  Maddie Marsh: The
• 16:37
  Dominique Hind: jealousy in comparison that this person had to everyone else. It just wasn't healthy, yep, and out of that, the comparison just created so much gossip. And I was like, I'm not interested. Like, go live your life. But just live your life. Stop comparing. And I think it was just easier just to cut. And do you feel better since, oh so light us better?
• 17:04
  Dominique Hind: Because I don't even have to think about
• 17:06
  Maddie Marsh: it. Yeah, yeah. And I do think sometimes you do just have to cut. I've probably got one example where I cut and I definitely don't look back with any regrets. And then probably some that I'd say are more like maybe on the back burn, yeah.
• 17:21
  Maddie Marsh: And I've, you know, I think there's friendships where you've been on the back burn and then you come back, like, with friends who live away further than Watson spay, right? It's like, I think you can go through periods where you're not as tight, or you're not as connected in the minutia of the day or the week of the month, but you can equally see someone from the other side of the world, and it's like you saw them yesterday. And I do think that that's incredibly special, but you still have it has to be rewarding, yeah, and it has to be fun. I think that's one of the things that has kept our friendship so, like, constantly hilarious, is that sometimes to our own annoyance with our kids, like we over index on fun, right? And I think that that's really important, right? Yeah, so much of life is hard, so much of life is, like, serious and a struggle at times, that if you can't have someone, we're just going to have a really fucking fun time with Yeah, then, like, why put your energy there?
• 18:19
  Dominique Hind: That's it. And you know what you do when you get to this age, you do realise that life's so short, and you just need to be having that fun and just be enjoying it and getting the joy out of every moment.
• 18:33
  Maddie Marsh: And I think the competition thing is interesting. I'd say at my worst, I can get upset if I'm left out back to my super sensitive Susan, right? Because I so I've got massive FOMO because I love having fun. But also, I think you've got to accept that everyone's got their own thing going on in life, right? And like, I haven't read it, but there's that book at the moment that people are all talking about it, about the like, the let them. And my husband says it to me all the time, and he goes, just let them Yeah. And there is something really like liberating in that.
• 19:06
  Maddie Marsh: It hundreds you can't do everything all the time. And as we know, I've tried, and then I end up getting burnt out, right, or sick, which is my classic go to but, you know, I think you've got to learn to say no, yeah.
• 19:21
  Maddie Marsh: And you've got to accept that everyone else has got their own life, yeah? And you actually are happy for that, yeah? And you just want to make sure that you're putting your buckets of joy and time and energy in the people that matter most and in the people that you have really great memories.
• 19:36
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, I know. And I think that yeah. The the
• 19:40
  Dominique Hind: I love Mel Robbins, let
• 19:41
  Maddie Marsh: them theory book. See she's actually read it.
• 19:44
  Dominique Hind: Yeah. Well, hang on, I've listened.
• 19:46
  Maddie Marsh: She got AI to summarise it for her 100%
• 19:50
  Dominique Hind: give me the 10 things, no, but it's great because it does put the power back into your mindset about not feeling left out. Up and going if they had caught each other?
• 20:02
  Dominique Hind: What happens if they'd seen each other down the road, at the park, wherever, and they'd organise to do something you can't like. It's up to them to have their relationship as well.
• 20:11
  Dominique Hind: You don't always have to be a group. There can just be a few people who do go out together as well. And I do think the let them theory just helps you let it go
• 20:23
  Maddie Marsh: and not take it personally. Not take it personally, because it's not personal. It's not, it's not.
• 20:28
  Maddie Marsh: And I think it's having the confidence that your friendships are strong. They're enduring.
• 20:35
  Maddie Marsh: Yes, they're going to ebb and flow through periods of time, but I do think you can only have a really tight core. And you and I have spoken about this a lot, and I think there's a difference between friends who maybe come and go in chapters, or friends who come and go around circumstances. So it might start as a newborn mother's group, but it becomes an enduring or it might start as a school mum's friendship, and it becomes a forever friend. But at the same time, there are people that just come and go, yeah, and there are people who maybe they're like one of your kids, best mates, parents, and you really like them, and you don't know yet at this point if they're going to become a forever person, but you're having a great time together in the short term.
• 21:17
  Dominique Hind: Yep, exactly.
• 21:21
  Dominique Hind: And I think that is, is, yeah, it's just interesting life, life in the stages and the friendships in the stages as well.
• 21:26
  Maddie Marsh: And I do the other piece, I think you and I have talked about a lot is friendship as part of the bigger fabric of your relationships in life, yeah, you know. And I think part of your journey, as you get to closer to thank you is acknowledging that you love and thrive and want really deep relationships from your friends.
• 21:53
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, and I think, like over the last 12 years, I've seen you shift, probably, your desire and need for those relationships.
• 22:05
  Maddie Marsh: Oh,
• 22:05
  Dominique Hind: absolutely. And you know what I think it is, and those early stages, it was all about work, all about work, work, work, work, work. And you realise that it's not as satisfying as what you think it is. So maybe not the be all and end all, or not the you know what, not the be all and end all. There are other things that can give you that rush and that joy, but also make sure that you're laughing and smiling at the same time.
• 22:28
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, it does remind me the day when the sale of the business went through. Yeah. And back to the comment up front about the not having a handbag, like, literally didn't have a handbag had like the old school plastic woollies bag filled with snacks. And you and I, you just sold your business for incredibly successful moment in life, and we were so proud, and like we rejoiced and celebrated in all the right things as we sat in a park, yeah, with some kid snacks out of a plastic bag.
• 23:03
  Maddie Marsh: And I think, like, despite the comedy visual of that, it's also like, actually what mattered was you being with someone who you could feel your complete and authentic self, yeah, and yes, you were so proud of that moment. But also, actually wasn't the be all and end
• 23:20
  Dominique Hind: all, no, but you know what? And I still don't have an expensive handbag, because I'm like, Why do I actually need it anyway? Well, Justin tries to buy them for me.
• 23:28
  Dominique Hind: Justin does try and buy them.
• 23:32
  Dominique Hind: Oh, I'm not gonna use a bag. I don't need it. Yeah. Okay, good.
• 23:37
  Dominique Hind: What do you think really matters in a friend?
• 23:40
  Maddie Marsh: Oh, it's a good question. I think loyalty, compassion, kindness, fun, yep.
• 23:53
  Maddie Marsh: Like, you really want to have a laugh and honesty, yeah. Like, I think sometimes you need your mates to, like, tell you to pull your head in. And, like, sometimes your mates can probably tell you to do that.
• 24:07
  Maddie Marsh: Like, I was texting with a mate last night, and she was like, you know, am I taking this to heart? And I was like, No. If I thought you were being like an idiot about this, I would tell you to pull your head in, yeah, and you're not. And I think sometimes your friends can do that with you without it turning into an argument with your parents. Oh, yeah, I got, I do think you need that honesty each way. What? Like,
• 24:29
  Dominique Hind: hang on. We've got too much drama going on now.
• 24:32
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I love drama, maybe drama,
• 24:39
  Dominique Hind: yeah, I think that too. And I do think that by just knowing that everyone does like having a little less judgement about people as well, and trying to see it from their perspective and what's going on in their world, because you don't know what's going on, even on the surface, like you can be all put. Together, yeah, all properly put together, all seen to be and dying an inside, dying on the inside. And I think sometimes that does cause different reactions in friendships, and you just need to be there. And that loyalty and that, you know, inquisitive curiosity, making sure that they're
• 25:16
  Maddie Marsh: okay is a big thing.
• 25:21
  Maddie Marsh: And I think know when they want to pour their souls out, yeah, and when they actually just want you to help them hold it together, yeah, yeah, I think that's and to pick those moments.
• 25:30
  Dominique Hind: Yes. What do you wish you'd known about friendship 10 years ago?
• 25:35
  Maddie Marsh: Be less sensitive?
• 25:39
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah. I mean Jokes aside, I think having the confidence that your people are your people, yeah? And do you trusting in that that comes though with confidence in yourself? I think it's probably confidence in yourself and probably a little bit of maturity, yeah, I think that, and maybe it comes back, especially for me, around the only child. Thing is it's probably a combo of, like, wanting and needing to be loved.
• 26:06
  Maddie Marsh: And also FOMO, yeah, I
• 26:06
  Dominique Hind: was going to bring in the FOMO, like, the ability to say no to some things and know that that's okay, and no, it's okay, is actually a big thing. Like the joy of missing out, like I love that always means sometimes. I mean, would we say always, maybe not always, maybe not always, but it is, yeah, it is different. You know you I think
• 26:28
  Maddie Marsh: it is probably confidence. I think it's confidence in yourself, but also confidence in the people that, like, know you inside out, yeah.
• 26:40
  Maddie Marsh: Like, I can't remember what the moment was recently with a mate, but, like, I remember her laughing to me on the phone, being like, this is just so you Yeah. And I'm like, Yeah, you're right. Like, you know, it's just sometimes, I think, not in a too serious sense, but sometimes you can be hard on yourself, and actually you just have to trust the fact that you've got some great mates, yes, and just embrace that. Yeah,
• 27:03
  Dominique Hind: and do you have different friends for different moods, work, fun, deep chats?
• 27:10
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, probably not for different moods, but maybe for different chapters or different moments. So I think, I mean, I'm very social at work, for example, and I've got a couple of really great mates at work. And I'd say, when I look back career wise, there's probably always a couple of really great mates that stay with you, and that's awesome.
• 27:32
  Maddie Marsh: And you very much the same in that regard. I think, I think you have a really tight core, and I think you probably can't kid yourself that anyone's got enough bandwidth or capacity to truly have you know, I have this joke with one mate about like one hand, and that you can't have a core that's bigger than people that you could fit on one hand. And I genuinely believe that, and that's not to say that your core is with you every day in the minutia, but I think when the going gets really great or really tough, they're the people who are by your side. But then I think there are other people that do come and go with life. I mean, I remember, I remember your husband saying to me once something about and we were talking about some other people that we were both friends with at the time about, you know, will they be a character in the book, or will they just be a character for a chapter? And I do think that there are some friends that are a chapter, or maybe a few chapters, but I think your core, they're there are what you take through forever. And I think really it's like empathy, fun and probably honesty that keeps that working.
• 28:48
  Maddie Marsh: What
• 28:48
  Dominique Hind: happens if you don't have the core like, what do you do?
• 28:55
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I think some people need less friends, yeah, and I don't know if that's a family or only child piece, or an introvert, extrovert piece or a capacity piece, but I think some people, I don't think, need as many friends as me. Like I know I love being surrounded by people, and I thrive off the energy of people. Not everyone is like that. No, I think equally, maybe, maybe it's a confidence piece, maybe it's a fun piece, maybe it's a personality piece. Maybe for some people, they only need one or two mates, and that's okay, and that's not a bad thing. No, like, I think it's so personal.
• 29:41
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, it is. And I do think there's probably a difference in how men and women approach friendships too agree. And you and I have spoken about this a bit, and it's like there are probably, I think also there are some couples who are very i. Are tight, yep, right, and we can both name, yeah, people like this. And that's, again, not always a good thing, and it's not always bad, no, it's just maybe if you've got that, you need less other people, or if you have a really big, tight family and you're an introvert, maybe you need less people. But I think it is such a core part of who I am. I know, like, people at work Pull me up all the time, because I'll be like, Oh, my bestie. And they'll be like, sorry, which bestie is this? And, like, that's just my 75 it's my core, but it's still but for some people, maybe they only need one or two in that core, yeah, and that's okay, but I think it's really personal, yeah, which is probably a bit
• 30:44
  Dominique Hind: vague, but how do you think you find friends as you get older?
• 30:49
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I think with you and I, we just clicked straight away. Yeah, I think, like, you know, with my really good high school mates, you've got such a long history, and you've you've known that journey, and you've had moments where you've been so tight, and then moments when you've been less tight. I think sometimes you know it instantly. I think sometimes people surprise you, and maybe sometimes people disappoint you. And I think particularly in instances where you either call it and you cut them, or you maybe put someone on the back burn. Maybe you're at a point where they've really disappointed you, or you're at a point where you just have less in common. And I think like not to say that you need all of your friends to be like you and at the same stage with you and the same number of kids and the same kids and all of that, but you need to have some commonality.
• 31:39
  Maddie Marsh: There
• 31:39
  Dominique Hind: needs. There definitely does need to be. Plus
• 31:41
  Maddie Marsh: there's practicalities.
• 31:44
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, we live all the way in Watson's Bay. You know, it's harder, or whatever.
• 31:49
  Dominique Hind: Why is it so hard to make friends as an adult?
• 31:53
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, is it hard to make friends adults? You
• 31:57
  Dominique Hind: know what I think it is in this is where, like, the male versus female thing. I think because females are out and about more, they're particularly if they're a mum, they have the school network.
• 32:09
  Dominique Hind: They're more involved in the school. There is that opportunity. But I do think it is harder for men to actually make friends as they get later in life,
• 32:17
  Maddie Marsh: and I think they're probably more closed and less vulnerable. Yeah, like, I think if we go back to like, you need to be okay to say everything was not okay, yeah, I agree, yep.
• 32:28
  Maddie Marsh: And I don't know, I think some men are good at that. Probably they're trying to get slightly better at it, as a really broad, high speaking statement, but there's a lot of bravado out there, yeah, and I think that that can be limiting, because you can end up in a really fickle, one dimensional conversation. And I don't think that that is being a true friend.
• 32:50
  Dominique Hind: No, I know I do.
• 32:54
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, I think it is, hopefully it is changing. I mean, there's so much that men's mental health and, you know, being able to share, but it is hard, I think, for men to actually find those friendships later in life, unless it's come through work, it's tough work,
• 33:09
  Maddie Marsh: or maybe schools, or like, you know, for a lot, I think, you know, around sport, as cliched as that sounds, but I think, I think it's also hard because You have less time, yeah, and you and I always, and in fact, my husband and I always joke that if he goes, I just don't have time. I go, Yeah, it's funny, because DOM just has more time, and then he goes, Oh, I better pull my head in. But you know, it's hard. I mean, poor Sean, he just has less time than everyone else. I love you, honey. But you know, I mean, I do think it's hard because your demands increase, like my mom and I have spoken about this a lot, I think we are in that crunch window where you've still got a career that's really demanding in whatever way, shape or form that takes you've got kids, and the ever increasing emotional needs of those kids, Yeah, okay, great. They can have a shower and feed themselves, but, or get their bus, or get a bus, amazing. But, like, you know the emotional support that comes with that you've got a partner and, and, and, and, yeah, so I think it comes back to, like, sometimes being pragmatic, but then at the same time, how much do you need that for your soul? And I think I need that for my soul.
• 34:27
  Dominique Hind: It is the trade off of what like, what investment in friendship can I get to make sure that my soul, or my my heart or my cup is actually full
• 34:38
  Maddie Marsh: and and knowing that sometimes that might come at a cost of something else, like doing the dishes, like culling cupboards,
• 34:49
  Dominique Hind: whatever DOM what would you say to someone who's feeling a bit lonely?
• 34:56
  Maddie Marsh: Oh, that makes me feel sad. Oh, no. I. Yeah, I think, ask for help.
• 35:02
  Dominique Hind: But do you reckon if they're feeling lonely, they would,
• 35:06
  Maddie Marsh: I would think, well, okay, maybe two things. If you've got even one person, ask for help. Like, start small and be honest and open. If you feel like you don't even have one or two people like, get involved, yeah, whatever interest or community or kids thing or work thing, just have a crack at maybe putting yourself outside your comfort zone and seeing if you can build something small.
• 35:39
  Maddie Marsh: It's
• 35:39
  Dominique Hind: funny. So in the let them theory book, it does say, you know, one of the things is that social connection is such a massive thing for all people, whether it's male, female, young or old, we're social beings. Absolutely. And there's been so much research that's shown if your social network and community is actually strong as you get older, you do live for longer because you are more complete and you are more fulfilled inside. But Mel Robbins says you've got to put yourself out there. If you've got an interest, go join a group, go do something or go be where the people are, and also say your name first ask someone's name, so that even if you are in a coffee shop, you go in and say to whoever's serving you, oh, hi, I come here often. What's your name, so that at least you've got someone
• 36:32
  Maddie Marsh: to talk to. Yeah, my mom with the gallery, right?
• 36:34
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah? It's like finding something in retirement that you love, that you meet, like minded people that you connect, yeah, sure, initially around art and your absolute love and fascination of that, but then she's made some extraordinary friends out of that. But it is, it's finding maybe that community, yep, and then building and investing in those friendships. And I do think friendship takes investments?
• 37:02
  Dominique Hind: Yep, and it is.
• 37:05
  Dominique Hind: You're right. You have to put yourself out there. If you are feeling lonely, you've just like, you've got to take that first step to it will be uncomfortable initially, like, it's going to be uncomfortable,
• 37:16
  Maddie Marsh: but, and for some personalities, more uncomfortable than others, absolutely.
• 37:20
  Dominique Hind: But you know what, even if it is taking that first step or just knowing that you can go and say hello to someone at the coffee shop, at least there's that interaction.
• 37:28
  Maddie Marsh: And I think for parents, there's so much natural interaction that happens through those communities that it's like, I mean, we've spoken about this a lot. I've spoken about this a lot, especially since Spencer started his new school, is like, a lot of the time what you put in is what you get out Absolutely. So yes, you're going to meet some people who are lovely but aren't necessarily your people, but then you're going to meet some people who are super your people. Yeah, and it's like, if you nurture that, and you invest in that, like any great relationship, you're going to get some really great, rewarding memories that come out of that. And I think it's like, that's part of I think what has kept our friendship so strong for so many years is it's that investment, but it's also the memories. Yeah, absolutely learn the memories, not just for us, but for our family, for our kids. And, you know, it's
• 38:18
  Dominique Hind: awesome. And I think it's funny. I was reading this thing, and it made like was so became so apparent to me that as we get older, even some of the friendships that we do have, we just go and do the routine stuff, catch up for a coffee, go for a walk, but we don't do things that are actually joyous or experiences. And it made me realise and go, it's so true, we need to start doing stuff that is fun with our friends, not just sitting there and talking.
• 38:52
  Dominique Hind: It is like memories that you are making because you don't remember the coffees or the walks. I mean, some, some you do, obviously, some you do. But it's more about those experiences, yes, and we just start to because life gets in the way. The time pressures are there. You start to stop doing those experiences, unless you live so far away and you make a day of it.
• 39:13
  Maddie Marsh: And I think experiences that are with your kids and experiences that aren't always with your I agree, because you're like, whether or not it's when they're younger and you're distracted by the like, practicalities of their lack of independence, or whether or not it's like, everything that you say in front of them then gets repeated to everyone for the next three months, yeah, like, it's like, sometimes the little ears are helpful and sometimes they can't be there, right? And I absolutely, even, like you, and I probably a lot of the time end up speaking in the car, because we've both got no little ears around us. And it's like, okay, we can actually get really deep, really quickly, yeah, just practically, because the circumstance allows us
• 39:57
  Dominique Hind: to, that's it, and it's more just a blur. And.
• 39:59
  Dominique Hind: And
• 40:03
  Maddie Marsh: no, no.
• 40:06
  Dominique Hind: Have you ever had a proper friend breakup?
• 40:10
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I don't know about a breakup. I definitely remember with one friend who can remain nameless, I think it was after I had beau, so my second son, and we were at the park, and she'd made an effort to come and see me, but I was like, in the hot zone of like, two little kids, and I had felt increasingly all of our interactions every time was like, drain, drain, drain. And I remember the end of this actually, probably the last time we saw each other just going, like, I'm really comfortable knowing that I've been drained one too many times and so like, I probably did do more the ghosting than I did do the cut, but that's probably as close to a friendship breakup as POS as I've probably been To. But I think it was that awareness that had maybe Ryan's course, and I think that that's okay. And who knows, in 10 years time, maybe for whatever reason, that person might pop up in my life, and that's okay. I mean, I think some people can let you down, and that can be a micro let down, or it can be like compounded. And I think sometimes you just need to accept that. As harsh as that sounds, yep and rebuild,
• 41:33
  Dominique Hind: yep. You do seeing your work at meta. Are we heading
• 41:40
  Maddie Marsh: to this question was not on the list, yeah, yeah.
• 41:42
  Maddie Marsh: 100%
• 41:43
  Dominique Hind: was, are we heading for full digital friendships or craving more
• 41:48
  Maddie Marsh: in real life? I mean, I think digital will never replace the human I agree that is definitely not my official work.
• 41:56
  Maddie Marsh: No, no. I mean, I think in all aspects of life, whether or not it's work, whether or not it's creativity of thought, whether or not it's connection. I mean, the whole meta purpose is about connection. It's just about what form that connection takes.
• 42:11
  Maddie Marsh: Right. Now, do I necessarily completely agree with all aspects of that? I mean, obviously enough for me to work in a business, right? But at the same time. I mean, I think it is the human connection that is ultimately so part of what we need as beings. You know, like to the quote before from Mel Robbins, it's like we are social beings. And sure, some people need maybe one unit of social maybe I need 100 right? And that's okay, too, but it's like that can take different forms.
• 42:45
  Maddie Marsh: And I think, like, even if I think about you said before, like just sending someone a message and just knowing that you might not even get a reply, but it means that they know that you're thinking of them, yeah.
• 42:56
  Maddie Marsh: So I think the format of your friendship can change. And I do think text helped us with that, yeah. I absolutely love messaging, because I think it means that people can get it and respond in how it works for them, but at the same time, can your friendship purely exist on messaging? No, probably not, because it's pretty one dimensional. And it's also not a conversation, it's not a broadcast or an update, right?
• 43:19
  Maddie Marsh: And
• 43:19
  Dominique Hind: also in a message, there's almost 75 things that you have to respond to, and it's not like, Oh, which one do I respond to?
• 43:25
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I'm definitely known for sending the world's longest messages, let's be honest. But I think, I think it is all about human connection, yeah, and I think it's about making those moments, whether or not it's every day or every month or once a year, how do you really make sure that you're super present in those moments?
• 43:47
  Maddie Marsh: And I think both you and I have probably been through periods as all hectic, tech obsessed people are where you're maybe not as present as you want to be. And that, like particularly, that was probably one of my own goals this year is be present in whatever you're in right now.
• 44:03
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, and if that's a small chat with your kid, or a conversation like this, or, you know, a cup of tea with my mom, or whoever it's like, let that be the moment. Try not to multitask every moment, every time. What DOM put your phone down. Put your phone down sometimes.
• 44:24
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, I think it is. It digital has definitely helped extend the relationships and how you can have them. And it gets annoying, not not annoying, but it means that, like, if I don't talk to my nan on the phone at certain times during the day, I can't actually check in with her. So, you know, like, it becomes difficult to have that full relationship with her if I'm just not on the phone, or if I've had stuff on and if I could just text her, it'd be amazing, because I could just go, Hi, how are you? What are you doing?
• 44:56
  Maddie Marsh: And I think also, like, particularly with mates who live. Different cities or in different places around the world. It's like, practically, it's amazing. But I think nothing beats like a great hug and being in person and having a laugh or a cry or, you know, I mean, I think, I think it's also being there in the big and the little moments that matter. And I think particularly, it's like, you know that does take mental energy and capacity, but trying to remember what's important to the people who are most important to you. Yeah, and like, don't get me wrong, I forgot Leighton's birthday this year. I think it was the first time I've done it in 12 years. I felt so bad, like, so bad. But at the same time you like, most of the time you're pretty great,
• 45:42
  Dominique Hind: right? That's, yeah, it's fine, yeah. It's like, and because I don't post it on Insta, that was really, yeah, well, like, you know, I don't need to share my life. You do? Yeah, do you? Can you still see us doing water parks and yum cha when we're in our 60s? No, God, I hope
• 46:00
  Maddie Marsh: not. No. I mean, maybe the yum cha bit, but a more civilised, slow version of yum cha, no, but I think that's where the evolution of friendship comes in. You know, I think I was talking to a mate this week about, like, look, let's go and do a walk. Or like, what is it? How do you take to your point the experiences and carving out time where you get really those quality moments. So I think the how you connect changes, and maybe partly that's digital, and partly that's the memories and the experience, almost like the two polar arrays of the spectrum, but like the format and the content might change, but the people who matter remain pretty constant, which is,
• 46:45
  Dominique Hind: it's interesting. It's like, how do you stay connected as life changes, as we become like parents of teenagers, empty nesters, like, you know, there's, there's all those things that do actually evolve and
• 46:59
  Maddie Marsh: and how do you stay interested and involved in your best mates, kids lives? Yeah, because I think that's really important too
• 47:08
  Dominique Hind: well. I mean, there so many research, so much research has been done based on making sure that you know, after what is it, 12 or 13, it's the other adults that are around the kids, and they're positive role models, absolutely, that have more influence than you do over your kids, which is, you know, it's so important to make sure that you are actively involved in their lives as well.
• 47:32
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I like to think I'm a super Auntie for one of my mates, particularly my mates girls, and I'm like, I hope that maybe there'll be moments when she's like, the really, most feral version of teenage. Her that, like, she, she knows that there's, like, another safe adult yeah exam. And go, like, Hey, I've maybe made a bit of a fuck up, and I need some help.
• 47:52
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah? And I don't want to tell mom, and I don't want to
• 47:55
  Dominique Hind: tell mom, yeah, yeah. Like, they do tell me anyway, no, we'll get there.
• 47:59
  Dominique Hind: We'll get there. Let's see. But
• 47:59
  Maddie Marsh: she's, it's, I think it's like the chapters of life, but the relationships that go through that with you, yeah? And some of those relationships will change, yeah, but a lot of them are the forever friends, yeah, yeah.
• 48:14
  Dominique Hind: And do you think there's anything about friendship that we haven't touched on
• 48:22
  Maddie Marsh: like, I mean, I think, I think the context piece from you before, like, you touched on it. But I think it's that thing of, like, everyone has their own shit, oh, yeah. And some people like, I mean, I am, like, the classic open book, and you know what mood I'm in from like, the first sentence, yeah, I have to normally get, like, my word in first before, yeah, hi, before you talk. But like, other people take more time or more like, so I think it's appreciating that everyone has got their shit going on and that sometimes you're gonna go through periods, particularly if, let's say you're going through a tough time, right? You're gonna give and give more, and that's okay, and you have to recognise that that's a point in time, but there's a context to that. And I think sometimes you can maybe take something personal in a friendship in isolation, as opposed to seeing the bigger picture, yeah, which I think is probably true of all relationships.
• 49:24
  Dominique Hind: Yeah, absolutely. You get focused on the one thing rather than on, yeah, the bigger picture of how that person actually is with
• 49:31
  Maddie Marsh: you and how you can help them and why you should help them. And I think it's just it. I mean, it's, it's ultimately about love and care, you know? I mean, I think it's deeply caring about how your mates feel and being prepared to like sometimes accept that that might be at an inconvenient time for what you've got going on in your life. But actually, if someone's going through something really shit, they need you. They need you, and as much.
• 50:01
  Maddie Marsh: As you would want them to be there for you, you're going to be there for them. Yeah, yeah.
• 50:03
  Dominique Hind: And I think that's intro, the conditions like that literally is about making sure it is unconditional, rather than actually the conditions. Even though you may be going through something in your life, sometimes your friends just need you at that point in
• 50:18
  Maddie Marsh: time. Oh, and like, if I think back, like, you know, I'm gonna call it like, crisis moments, where you're like, meeting a mate at like, 7am in the freezing middle of winter with four small kids under the age of four, and you're just there for someone in all the ugliness. Yeah, that it takes.
• 50:38
  Maddie Marsh: But I think that's what builds the empathy and the depth.
• 50:45
  Dominique Hind: I agree it is in that ugliness or in that pain, where friendships are actually made
• 50:52
  Maddie Marsh: and it is pain like life can be really painful and hard. I mean, you and I are both in the privileged position that right now we've not had to go through, for example, the pain of like losing a parent or grief, whereas, obviously we've both got mates who have gone through that. And I think, you know, life is mostly hard. And so I think it's about a, having the vulnerability to share that Yeah, with your people, yeah.
• 51:19
  Maddie Marsh: And B knowing when to ask for help, yeah? And I think, like to the piece on, I think you have needed more friendship units for one of a better expression, probably over the last, I'd say, even five years than the five years that preceded that. Yeah.
• 51:37
  Maddie Marsh: And that's a good thing, yeah, you know, but it's, I think it's okay to ask for help, and it's also okay. Back to the mental health piece. It's okay sometimes to say, I'm not okay.
• 51:50
  Maddie Marsh: Yep,
• 51:51
  Dominique Hind: I agree with that. Or I do need help. I
• 51:54
  Maddie Marsh: need help, and I don't know what that health looks like, but can you help me through the help? Yeah, and I think, like to your question of other different friends for different things or for different moments, everyone will have their own version of how they'll help you with that. Like I still remember, and I can't think how old the kids were, but I think one of the kids had some feral gastro bug, and we were in our like old house, so there's a point in time reference, but I have no idea how old they were.
• 52:23
  Maddie Marsh: If there was one kid, two kid, I have no idea. And I remember being like, Oh my God. And you were in Watson's Bay, and you drove over, and you left, like, some icy poles and an orchid, which is very classic Dom, but some icy poles and like, maybe, like some food or something as, like a care package that you literally dropped on the doorstep. And it's stuff like that where it's like, sometimes it's really practical help, and other times it's like, I need to absolutely break down and for you to just let me go through that and everything else in between. But it is those ugly moments that I do think builds it probably builds the trust, yeah? And I think with the trust is the like, deep love and respect,
• 53:05
  Dominique Hind: yeah? I absolutely agree with that like, and it's, you know, they always say, What in in the work, it place, it is. It's in the trenches that the culture is built, yeah. But it is also so true that friendships are built in the trenches as well. Yeah, deep friendships are built in the trenches.
• 53:24
  Maddie Marsh: And sometimes, like, I mean, I was laughing with a mate last weekend about a moment, and it was probably, let's call it a friendship fight, right? And it was donkeys years ago. And like, it was a pretty ugly fight. And like, I think we'd probably both had too much to drink, and we probably both said things that we should not but we both look back and go, it's probably what defined our friendship. Yeah, it's probably like that moment where it was so ugly that we both realised, oh no, you are my person. Yep, yep, you get me, you get me, you get and you get me and you get the all of Fauci, the good version of me and the bloody awful version of me.
• 54:05
  Dominique Hind: Okay, Maddie, we've covered it all, the tea, the dumplings, the I'm sure, the skiddies, the big friendship lessons and the undeniable power of big burp for our kids as well. But as I edge closer to 50 still in a couple of years, I have to ask, What's one thing I should do for our friendship before I hit the big milestone?
• 54:34
  Dominique Hind: Something fun, something ridiculous, something that we'll remember forever. Oh, I mean,
• 54:41
  Maddie Marsh: I mean, I want to answer this question in so many way. Here we go. Okay, so I think, like, I think it's not a VA handbag because I don't want one. No, no, no, it's definitely not that. I know you better than that. I think, I think what I want you to do is to have the confidence. Us to carve out the time and protect the time for your mates, for you, yeah, and know that that's okay. You've got so many people with so many demands on your time, and everyone who is in awe of your awesomeness and energy, as they should be. That's right, but at the same time, it's okay for you to be like, This is what I want, yeah, and what I need, and I'm gonna protect that, yeah? And I think it's, I think there should be a big friendship memory as you embark on your 50th and I think it's like, what is that for you, not? What is that for your relationship or for your family? What is that thing that you want in your soul that you'll look back and you go, do you know what my core and me had this awesome experience that I'll never replicate before I turn 50. You know it's backing yourself to have that
• 56:04
  Dominique Hind: moment, the moment, yeah, okay, so there's two in there, really, isn't it?
• 56:09
  Dominique Hind: There's two in there, yeah?
• 56:09
  Maddie Marsh: And one's a sort of, like, bigger behavioural thing, and then one is like, let's just go and do something. Yeah, fun.
• 56:14
  Maddie Marsh: Like, how we joke about going to Antarctica, but I like we're joking. Maybe it's
• 56:18
  Dominique Hind: not joke, yeah, it's gonna happen. Yeah, and if anyone out there is listening and realises their friendships could use a little more
• 56:26
  Maddie Marsh: attention, yep, attention or intention.
• 56:30
  Maddie Marsh: Attention, yep,
• 56:31
  Dominique Hind: just my husky voice. What's your one piece of advice on how to be a better friend?
• 56:39
  Maddie Marsh: Invest in the people that you love the most. And it could be big, it could be little, it can't be all the time, but just show that you love them and show that you care. And that might be like some comedy panda gift that someone sent me this week that really made me laugh, or it might be something really deep and meaningful, but it's like, invest in your mates and know that they are the people that you are sharing life's incredible journey with, and that really it's the people that matters, and whether or not that's at work, with Your family, with your friends, you know that's what at the end of life, when someone stands up and reflects on your life, it's the people and the impact that you've had on those people that's what matters most. Yeah,
• 57:34
  Dominique Hind: I definitely think the impact, the impact you've had on people like I always try to make sure that I leave a situation or a person better than what it started as.
• 57:51
  Maddie Marsh: And sometimes that's possible, and sometimes you've got to call the hard Yeah, right. But at the same time, I think it's about Yeah. It's the fabric that makes your life, you know, and there's so much minutia and like, admin and all that, like stuff that is essential, but when you look back, it's the moments with the people and those little micro moments and those really big moments. Yeah, that's what makes life. Life
• 58:22
  Dominique Hind: absolutely gives you the memories. Yeah, experiences all about
• 58:27
  Maddie Marsh: the joy and experience.
• 58:30
  Maddie Marsh: It's the joy and it's about the how do you make someone feel?
• 58:33
  Maddie Marsh: Yeah, and I think to your point about you always make someone feel loved and present. You leave your amazing, extraordinary energy and the mark on that on someone's day, right? But at the same time, it might be that they and that's awesome, right? But it's like, how do you want someone to feel?
• 58:53
  Maddie Marsh: And I think that's the, what's the one thing make someone feel a little bit better today? Yeah?
• 58:56
  Maddie Marsh: And just show that you care.
• 59:01
  Maddie Marsh: It's actually free, yeah, show that you care. Kindness is free.
• 59:04
  Maddie Marsh: Kindness is free and a
• 59:05
  Dominique Hind: choice to be the happy or sad and push that out on people.
• 59:08
  Maddie Marsh: Yep. And the more you put in, I think the more rewarding it is. Yep, agree, and if you put it in and you don't get it back, then you're going to learn that pretty quickly,
• 59:20
  Dominique Hind: after a few times,
• 59:22
  Maddie Marsh: maybe quickly, depending on how quick a learner you are,
• 59:26
  Dominique Hind: Maddie you are, the absolute best friendship in midlife can be complicated. It takes effort. It takes showing up, even when life is busy, and it takes finding the right people who get you, who love you and who are there for you. If there's one thing I'm taking from this chat, it's that friendship Don't friendships don't have to be constant to be solid. They can come in and out, and you can invest the time or the effort that you do have at that point in time. Yeah. You just need to make sure that when you do show up, you bring the love, the laughter and maybe even a giant IKEA shark. And if you've been listening and thinking about the friends who mean the most to you, here's your challenge, send them a message plan that catch up and be the one friend that shows up.
• 1:00:23
  Dominique Hind: Plan something that's different to what you would normally do.
• 1:00:27
  Dominique Hind: If you love this episode, subscribe, share it with your best friend or whoever you need to, and come chat with me on socials, because, let's be honest, we all need some more hilarious, ridiculous, slightly unhinged friendships, sharing our stories in life, and before you go take on Matty's challenge yourself, even carve out some time for you, or even think about one big friendship moment that you can plan before you're 50. Do something fun, bold, and keep your friendships alive because fuck we're nearly 50, and isn't it amazing? You