Latest / Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 250 Years of the Declaration of Independence / Climate, the Environment, and Natural Disasters in the British Caribbean

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Climate, the Environment, and Natural Disasters in the British Caribbean · Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness: 250 Years of the Declaration of Independence

• 0:10
  Speaker 0: He has cut off our trade with all parts of the world.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: So I'm very familiar with the destruction caused by hurricanes and even though.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I am usually not in Florida during hurricane season, I monitor The weather forecast compulsively and track the path of all the Hurricanes as they careen through the Caribbean islands And along the Atlantic coast wreaking havoc on people and property.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Hurricanes have always been an integral part of life for everyone who lives in the Caribbean and a long destructive history of hurricanes literally wash up on our beautiful beaches all the time.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Think of those Spanish treasure ships, heavily laden with gold and silver from mines in Peru and Mexico sailing through the Caribbean and up the coast of Florida before crossing The Atlantic and heading back to Spain.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: this was great business.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: it made Spain rich and powerful And the galleons sailed like clockwork churning out profits for the king.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: There was only one major threat, more dangerous than even pirates.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: Hurricanes!
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And hurricanes sank many ships and drowned many sailors over the centuries—indeed gold doubloons and pieces of eight from Spanish shipwrecks still wash up on Florida beaches every year…and they are a constant reminder.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: So today we're going to focus on the role that the environment plays in history and specifically, The importance of understanding the environment In early American History.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: so why should We take an environmentally conscious approach To the study Of history in general?
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: What is lost if we forget the Importance of the Environment?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: How does a Focus On the environment help us understand American history better?
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: And Going back to my personal experience in Florida What part did hurricanes play in the sequence of events that led up to the Declaration of Independence?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: To help us answer these questions, I'm very happy to have an expert on the environment and the Caribbean in early American history with me today.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Professor Mary Draper welcome Mary.
• 2:56
  Speaker 0: Thank you so much for having me!
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Mary Draaper is department chair and associate professor of History at Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls Texas where she teaches courses on early American, Caribbean and Atlantic history.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: And currently she is working in a book that reconstructs the environmental and maritime knowledge that supported colonization In The Early Modern British Caribbean.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: So Mary you started with two interesting passages from the Declaration of Independence.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: first we had that little comment about trade.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: King George has cut off our trade with all parts of the world.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: and secondly that bit about taxes.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: so why did you choose to start the episode by focusing on those two grievances against king george?
• 3:44
  Speaker 0: Yes, that's a great question!
• 3:46
  Speaker 0: So when I think about The American Revolution and i think about the Declaration Of Independence obviously trade and taxation are really at this center of discussions Decided to declare independence in seventeen seventy six, but these passage I find really interesting because you can actually take these passages and apply them To people that lived in the Caribbean.
• 4:12
  Speaker 0: The British Caribbean was very much part of the Empire-the same empire That the Thirteen Rebellious Colonies were a Part Of.
• 4:20
  Speaker 0: So we think about New York We Think About Virginia We Think about Maryland We Think bout South Carolina Pennsylvania.
• 4:27
  Speaker 0: But in seventeen seventy-six the British also controlled islands of Jamaica, Barbados, Antigua Montserrat Grenada Tobago Dominica Saint Vincent.
• 4:40
  Speaker 0: There's far more to The British Empire than just those thirteen rebellious colonies and They also are experiencing trade that has been stopped, and they're experiencing taxes that have been imposed on them without their consent.
• 4:52
  Speaker 0: So it's interesting to me.
• 4:53
  Speaker 0: you can take these exact phrases in our minds really apply to the thirteen rebellious colonies but also apply them to the Caribbean right?
• 5:00
  Speaker 0: These colonies ultimately remained loyal to British Empire some of which is still part commonwealth today.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really interesting.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: So we're gonna get back into the Declaration of Independence and those two clauses.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: but first I thought We'd kind of take this wider approach that I started with and maybe think about how we can better understand generally the relationship, that a professional historian sort of understands between the environment in history.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: It's probably different than the way that say i think about the environment and history which is as I said only like when if I see a gold doubloon washing up on a beach in Florida.
• 5:39
  Speaker 0: yeah so we make decisions based on the environment every day.
• 5:43
  Speaker 0: When you got dressed this morning, You looked at what the temperature was outside very likely and then decided to get dressed according To What The Outside Temperature
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Is.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Well in Hamburg it rains every day so It's basically rain jacket.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: but yes I know what you mean
• 5:56
  Speaker 0: right?
• 5:56
  Speaker 0: And So i think about that how we make our decision.
• 5:59
  Speaker 0: We Make These Decisions Every Day Based On Our Knowledge Of The Environment and when you take That and You Scale It For An Empire Right Imperial Officials and Colonists That Are Living In This region are going to have to make decisions based on their knowledge of the environment as well.
• 6:13
  Speaker 0: So environmental conditions shaped colonization, they shaped where people settled...they shaped war.
• 6:20
  Speaker 0: how war unfolded-the routes that ships took to invade other islands?
• 6:25
  Speaker 0: They shape trade!
• 6:26
  Speaker 0: What is the easiest route to take between two colonies because in a place that is surrounded by water like the Caribbean and the environment has a real impact on how trade unfolds, right?
• 6:41
  Speaker 0: The routes that people can take.
• 6:42
  Speaker 0: How long it takes to get someplace.
• 6:43
  Speaker 0: one of my favorite facts about the Caribbean is That if you were to sail from Barbados to Jamaica It takes about two weeks to sale.
• 6:51
  Speaker 0: But If You Were To Sale The Opposite Route and Sail From Jamaica Back To Barbados It Takes About Eight Weeks And That Has Profound Implications For How Daily Life Unfolds In This Region.
• 7:02
  Speaker 0: So I Think About Those Just more the smaller decisions that people have to make in regard to the environment when it comes to colonization.
• 7:11
  Speaker 0: The other thing I think about too is natural disasters, right?
• 7:16
  Speaker 0: For decades now scholars have been questioning just how natural so-called natural disasters are oftentimes kind of policies and decisions that actually make events we think as natural disasters such as droughts or hurricanes even earthquakes far more devastating than They would be otherwise.
• 7:35
  Speaker 0: For droughts, timbering can reduce rainfall and across the plantation Caribbean Islanders engaged in widespread deforestation as they made way for sugar production.
• 7:46
  Speaker 0: In their eyes a field full of sugar cane is going to be far more profitable than a forest full of trees Even though they do need timber on a regular basis To boil water right?
• 7:57
  Speaker 0: To process sugarcane to make rum And so that's one way that people themselves are going to make drought more severe.
• 8:08
  Speaker 0: Some crops and plants we know are far more drought tolerant than others, so making decisions about what to plant is going to have an impact on drought as well.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: Water
• 8:17
  Speaker 0: management's obviously key to mitigating droughts.
• 8:19
  Speaker 0: So what people decide to do with whatever fresh water sources they have?
• 8:23
  Speaker 0: Is going to obviously affect how people experience drought as Well.
• 8:27
  Speaker 0: then for hurricanes.
• 8:28
  Speaker 0: Obviously building materials can influence How well something withstands hurricane force winds.
• 8:34
  Speaker 0: Islanders really think about, right?
• 8:36
  Speaker 0: How tall they can build a building and what type of roof the building can have.
• 8:40
  Speaker 0: And then also adapt shipping practices so that commerce takes place before an after but not during hurricane
• 8:46
  Speaker 0: season.".
• 8:47
  Speaker 0: All right!
• 8:47
  Speaker 0: Then finally...the last big natural disaster I think when i think about the Caribbean are earthquakes
• 8:52
  Speaker 0: Right?!
• 8:53
  Speaker 0: The effects on earthwakes can absolutely be exacerbated again based on building materials or decisions to reclaim land.
• 9:00
  Speaker 0: They're actually in.
• 9:01
  Speaker 0: there's earthquake in Jamaica, and a lot of Port Royal Jamaica is actually reclaimed land right?
• 9:08
  Speaker 0: And so that land is going to be really vulnerable to liquefaction.
• 9:12
  Speaker 0: So when you fast-forward then into the Revolutionary War... The trade policies were adopted by the British at this time—by imperial officials —to punish the thirteen rebellious colonies.
• 9:24
  Speaker 0: They end up worsening the effects of natural disasters in the Caribbean because they cut off trade to the Thirteen Colonies.
• 9:31
  Speaker 0: and these Caribbean colonies really depend on trade with the continental, with the mainland colonies.
• 9:37
  Speaker 0: To obtain foodstuffs...to obtain building materials right?
• 9:40
  Speaker 0: ...To obtain things that are just crucial to everyday life!
• 9:43
  Speaker 0: And so when this trade is cut-off and hurricanes happen or there's a severe drought The Islanders across the British Caribbean not able to rely on these existing commercial relationships that
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: have
• 9:56
  Speaker 0: really helped them survive in this really, really environmentally fragile region for quite some time.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I really liked the word Fragile when we think about British imperial infrastructure you know, the early forms of the post office and all this.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: This is very complex amazing stuff!
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: The way they pack it boats going back to London and packet boats from I think New York or Philadelphia in Boston...and then Charleston i think.... And just a number of ships going into an out-of-all.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: these ports on the Atlantic coast around the Caribbean every day.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: very robust infrastructure.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: It's a very, very robust imperial planning that makes it all happen and is developed over the course of decades or even centuries – just like today!
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: When a hurricane crashes into Jamaica has just happened or often when it happens in Florida.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: all of these plans All this effort, all the labor of civilization to make itself work better To trade better.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: To communicate faster and all that stuff is destroyed And its just a reminder how fragile indeed our civilization Is even today.
• 11:21
  Speaker 0: Yes I agree with you right?
• 11:24
  Speaker 0: A world that's really different from England.
• 11:27
  Speaker 0: If you were to take an English man or woman in the seventeen hundreds and plop them down into the Caribbean, they're going be very hot!
• 11:36
  Speaker 0: And they are going experience a environment really different from what they would experience in London or Bristol, or somewhere else.
• 11:45
  Speaker 0: In England right?
• 11:46
  Speaker 0: And so it takes a little while for people to address and understand the rhythms of the Caribbean's environment.
• 11:54
  Speaker 0: Obviously by the seventeen seventies where I buy the time that declaration of independence is signed.
• 11:58
  Speaker 0: By the time the Revolutionary War is unfolding there are battles across the Caribbean after France and Spain enter.
• 12:04
  Speaker 0: They know when hurricane season ends They know when the first hurricanes might be expected and then last, but it doesn't mean that they can always prepare for a really powerful hurricane.
• 12:21
  Speaker 0: And I will say in particular these hurricanes are going to upend life that are living across these sugar plantations will really bear the brunt of the effects of these disasters.
• 12:39
  Speaker 0: They're going to be ones who suffer when trade isn't as reliable, right?
• 12:46
  Speaker 0: When people aren't able to acquire foodstuffs they need to survive or fresh water to survive.
• 12:52
  Speaker 0: so enslaved people in particular experience this fragility at a really acute level compared with white colonists.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: You talked about natural disasters.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: So we have earthquakes, droughts and hurricanes having a profound effect on the colonies.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: you spoke about just generally speaking weather The heat in humidity And then when he was talking about the heat I immediately started thinking About disease.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to what extent do you?
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: In your teaching put disease into the environment or did you Put that sort of in a separate category?
• 13:28
  Speaker 0: The environment not only factors into kind of the spread of disease, but it also factors in to how people might recover from diseases.
• 13:36
  Speaker 0: And so George Washington I don't know if you know this But George Washington left the Continental colonies.
• 13:41
  Speaker 0: and what became United States one time?
• 13:44
  Speaker 0: He went to Barbados.
• 13:45
  Speaker 0: he went a Barbados since hoping that the tropical weather, this more mild climate would actually help his brother's health.
• 13:57
  Speaker 0: And while George Washington is in Barbados he actually contracted smallpox.
• 14:03
  Speaker 0: and yeah...and so by contracting smallpox & surviving smallpox He has afforded life-long immunity.
• 14:11
  Speaker 0: So when smallpox ravaged the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War George Washington could take solace because he wouldn't contract the disease again, right?
• 14:21
  Speaker 0: He does have to decide whether or not to inoculate troops.
• 14:23
  Speaker 0: But he can take solace and effect that he is not going to come down with a disease.
• 14:27
  Speaker 0: And so the environment can go both ways.
• 14:29
  Speaker 0: where it could be seen as this place that's really lethal.
• 14:32
  Speaker 0: That's a place were diseases can easily spread based on environmental conditions.
• 14:36
  Speaker 0: but In the eighteenth century there are also environments that we're seeing us healthy.
• 14:40
  Speaker 0: if you go into milder climate maybe your gonna able recover from whatever ailments you experience
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Fascinating.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now that you mentioned George Washington of course I'm thinking of one event in Revolutionary War history where we have weather and something of a natural disaster.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: In kind-of disease all wrapped up together.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that's Washington famously crossing the Delaware River on the night of Christmas in seventeen seventy six was it?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And he crossed like three To surprise the Hessian troops in Trenton.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: he crossed with three groups and there was this huge storm.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: So two of the columns of troops on boats never actually made it to the destination But since the main column that Washington was leading did they were able to surprise the Hessean troops who didn't just expect This to happen.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And one of the critical things that they wanted to capture when they captured The hessians their clothes clothing winter clothing so that the Continental Army could have better winter clothing and boots, So they can survive in winter.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: You think again here's an example of weather and a storm influencing history And maybe having a profound effect on history.
• 15:56
  Speaker 0: We want Winter Clothing to survive Pennsylvania In The Winter Time and you Want linen To Survive the Caribbean in Summer.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Okay we just had a brief intro into the importance of recognizing the importance of environmental factors in history.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: But let's go back to hurricanes, my favorite... least-favorite natural disaster.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I believe Alexander Hamilton had an experience with hurricanes that he wrote about.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: so why don't you tell us
• 16:29
  Speaker 0: Yes, so if you are familiar
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: at
• 16:31
  Speaker 0: all with Lin-Manuel Miranda's Hamilton The Musical the opening song talks about Hamilton and says hurricane came in devastation rained And that Hurricane is a hurricane.
• 16:41
  Speaker 0: That happened in late August of seventeen seventy two and it struck St.
• 16:45
  Speaker 0: Croix.
• 16:45
  Speaker 0: Alexander Hamilton was living at their time.
• 16:47
  Speaker 0: Hamilton had been born in Nevis, which is part of the British Caribbean.
• 16:52
  Speaker 0: But by...the time he's a teenager and living in St Croix this hurricane hits!
• 16:58
  Speaker 0: And it's particularly devastating and Hamilton decided to write a letter about that.
• 17:02
  Speaker 0: He writes a letter eventually published at the Royal Danish American Gazette.
• 17:07
  Speaker 0: It describes the storm you can find on the internet.
• 17:10
  Speaker 0: if you just search Alexander Hamilton Hurricane Letter You'll be taken into a transcription Man, he uses some fanciful language right?
• 17:21
  Speaker 0: He is really descriptive in how he talks about this storm.
• 17:25
  Speaker 0: He calls it quote one of the most dreadful hurricanes that memory or any records whatever can trace.
• 17:32
  Speaker 0: And then he goes on to use this really powerful imagery, to explain what he witnessed.
• 17:36
  Speaker 0: He said quote.
• 17:37
  Speaker 0: it seemed as if a total dissolution of nature was taking place.
• 17:42
  Speaker 0: the roaring of sea and wind firing meteors flying about in air their prodigious glare almost perpetual lightning The crash of falling houses and ear piercing shrieks were sufficient to strike astonishment into angels end quote.
• 18:00
  Speaker 0: And so he talks more about this destruction, and then he appeals to God to help him face the destruction.
• 18:05
  Speaker 0: It helped the people of St.
• 18:06
  Speaker 0: Croix recover from this distraction right?
• 18:09
  Speaker 0: As anyone who knows The Musial Call they'll know that this letter was his ticket out of the Caribbean.
• 18:14
  Speaker 0: readers were So impressed with his rhetorical flair at His ability to describe this storm in such vivid imagery That some wealthy people in St.
• 18:22
  Speaker 0: Croix ended up funding his departure to the Continental Colony, so he eventually enrolls in King's College what now Columbia University and becomes one of the founding fathers of The United States.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: That such a fascinating story super interesting.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: And yes we'll have two.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: I will put in this show notes a link to one Of the transcripts on that letter.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Okay So let's take the story a little bit further know after Hamilton.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: So this is a history I'm totally unfamiliar with, but you will explain it.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: And that is the effect of some major hurricanes on The War for American Independence.
• 19:01
  Speaker 0: Yeah so at least four Hurricanes struck the British Caribbean during the American Revolutionary war and then Atleast four more struck elsewhere in the british Caribbean right?
• 19:13
  Speaker 0: of the United
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: States
• 19:19
  Speaker 0: during that time period.
• 19:21
  Speaker 0: And this number, this number eight does not take into account non-British or non American places right?
• 19:27
  Speaker 0: So the total number of hurricanes that hit these places are affected and this region is much higher than then.
• 19:34
  Speaker 0: But the seventeen eighty was a particularly deadly and dreadful year for hurricanes.
• 19:40
  Speaker 0: At least eight major storms made landfall in the Caribbean or along the Gulf Coast, right?
• 19:45
  Speaker 0: So regardless of what empire or what nation we're talking about here And so within seventeen eighty October is really bad month.
• 19:52
  Speaker 0: There are two known hurricanes that struck islands across the British Caribbean in October of seventeen eighty.
• 19:57
  Speaker 0: The first hurricane hit Jamaica.
• 19:59
  Speaker 0: on October third, there was widespread damage on the western side of Jamaica and there were hundreds of people both colonists and enslaved Africans that died as a result of this hurricane.
• 20:10
  Speaker 0: And then a week later A really powerful hurricane ended up hitting Barbados and then tracking up the Lesser Antilles Skirting Antigua before it and have dissipated.
• 20:22
  Speaker 0: And It struck these islands between October tenth, October sixteenth.
• 20:27
  Speaker 0: then evidence suggests that this was a category five hurricane which is the worst you can get?
• 20:32
  Speaker 0: That means that the storm had sustained winds of at least one hundred fifty eight miles per hour.
• 20:37
  Speaker 0: right.
• 20:37
  Speaker 0: so This Is A Really Devastating Powerful Storm and When Hit Barbados It Destroyed Buildings Its Thanks Ships It Ruined Fortifications and By Our Best Estimates At Least four thousand people died in Barbados, half of whom were enslaved.
• 20:52
  Speaker 0: But the governor very crudely noted when he's writing about this hurricane that quote.
• 20:58
  Speaker 0: fortunately few people of consequence are amongst this number.
• 21:02
  Speaker 0: and then more people especially enslaved Africans died on the aftermath at this hurricane from disease they contracted because of poor living conditions from lack of food because of these trade policies we've talked about.
• 21:14
  Speaker 0: it also killed thousands and it precipitated widespread damage across Barbados.
• 21:21
  Speaker 0: And then, it turned north and continued its path of destruction.
• 21:24
  Speaker 0: in our best estimates suggests that at least twenty thousand but perhaps as many as thirty-thousand people died is a result this one hurricane.
• 21:34
  Speaker 0: so the aftermath.
• 21:40
  Speaker 0: You have Islanders' Petition for Aid, right?
• 21:42
  Speaker 0: And Parliament actually ends up appropriating a hundred and twenty thousand pounds sterling to help both Barbados in Jamaica recover from this hurricane.
• 21:51
  Speaker 0: So waging war during hurricane season is going to be difficult for lots of different reasons.
• 21:56
  Speaker 0: one of the reason says you might a hurricane that is directly in the path of the maritime route you need to take to invade an island.
• 22:03
  Speaker 0: But it's also going to be difficult because if a hurricane does hit, recovery is going to take
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: a
• 22:09
  Speaker 0: lot of resources—it's gonna take money and manpower!
• 22:13
  Speaker 0: And I'll say A LOT OF THAT RECOVERY IS GOING TO REST ON THE SHOULDERS OF INSLAVED PEOPLE, right?
• 22:18
  Speaker 0: Inslaved people really not only bore kind-of lethal brunt on this storm but they are going with cleaning up, with recovering.
• 22:27
  Speaker 0: With doing extra labor on top of what other labor they might already be expected to do to help these places recover?
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: That's interesting.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: how good at predicting storms the paths of storms could these colonies and these sailors be or was it really just?
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: we have to always be careful in hurricane season which by the way I know We say hurricane season goes from, I usually think of it as like May to November.
• 23:00
  Speaker 0: Yeah maybe June-November or May and November
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: But that's what... It hasn't changed significantly since the seventeen hundreds.
• 23:07
  Speaker 0: No although there will be people who say a hurricane hit outside but they're really just talking about
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: a bad
• 23:14
  Speaker 0: storm have the meteorological data that we now have, right?
• 23:18
  Speaker 0: To be able to say though this is a hurricane versus this was
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: the best time.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: But they know when hurricane season is so they're able make some planning decisions based on it.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: but how much more can they do to predict or protect themselves?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: their sailing ships?
• 23:33
  Speaker 0: A lot of its just trying not conduct commerce during these times.
• 23:38
  Speaker 0: That's particularly risky.
• 23:39
  Speaker 0: insurance might really high if you are trying conduct commerce during the middle of hurricane season.
• 23:44
  Speaker 0: There are these various ways that people suggest you can predict a hurricane, and I think one of them is something like rings around the moon at night.
• 23:55
  Speaker 0: but aside from that it's hard to predict right?
• 23:59
  Speaker 0: They don't have the benefit of radar we have today to predict that...I will say another thing about the Caribbean rate as you have hurricane seasons actually coincides with the wet season.
• 24:09
  Speaker 0: So the Caribbean has a wet season and dry season.
• 24:12
  Speaker 0: The dry season normally runs from December, so they end up hurricane season to April or May And then the wet season starts in April or may and runs till November right?
• 24:21
  Speaker 0: That wet season that rainy season coincides perfectly with Hurricane Season!
• 24:25
  Speaker 0: They do know...that's when should expect rain maybe some storms and really won't experience much rain or hurricanes in that dry season.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: Okay going now from commercial sailing vessels that are trading with other colonies and back to Europe, in Britain.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: What about
• 24:47
  Speaker 0: how
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: locals understood the environmental conditions?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And how that might give a navy an advantage or disadvantage during the Revolutionary War for
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: example?".
• 25:00
  Speaker 0: Yeah!
• 25:00
  Speaker 0: That's a great question.
• 25:01
  Speaker 0: so Islanders obviously knew the contours of hurricane season but they also new How wind operated in this region just on a daily basis.
• 25:12
  Speaker 0: so you have trade winds that originate out in the Atlantic Ocean and Flow from the east to the west across the Caribbean.
• 25:19
  Speaker 0: So we have this regular force of wind.
• 25:21
  Speaker 0: And then you also Have these more localized winds called land breezes and sea breezes.
• 25:26
  Speaker 0: That cycle with the morning and night, and they actually are powerful enough that they can affect when a ship might be able to enter a harbor and when the ship may leave a harbour.
• 25:36
  Speaker 0: And colonists know this, right?
• 25:37
  Speaker 0: They know kind of best routes in timing for when you undertake these maritime vessels.
• 25:44
  Speaker 0: so during war...they can predict where a vessel, like an invading navy might arrive right from what direction they are likely going to come because it is far easier to sail one direction than it is to sail the other.
• 26:00
  Speaker 0: Barbados has very famously only invaded one time during the entirety of The Early Modern Period and It Is A Fleet That Is Arriving From The Atlantic Ocean.
• 26:12
  Speaker 0: Because Barbados, if you look at a map it's so far east that... If you were to try and sail to Barbados from within the Caribbean You are beating against the wind And you're going be able see these vessels That are on the horizon for really long time because It is difficult to sail in this way.
• 26:30
  Speaker 0: For Barbados they can take solace.
• 26:32
  Speaker 0: In fact there is so far East an enemy vessel to invade the island.
• 26:38
  Speaker 0: But in a place like the Leeward Islands, so Antigo, Montserrat, St.
• 26:42
  Speaker 0: Kitt's, Nevis that area of the British Caribbean they're pretty close to enemy islands.
• 26:48
  Speaker 0: there are French colonies and their not too far away from Puerto Rico Spanish colony then some Dutch colonies up as well.
• 26:58
  Speaker 0: those islands really become on edge when war happens because it's far easier to sail from an enemy island, two one of the Libra Islands just based on proximity and based on the winds in those regions.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's fascinating.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: so basically The element of surprise can totally be taken away if you're fortunate enough To Be On One Island but not another.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: yes I'm sure.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: And If Everyone Knew That Then You Could Plan For This In Important Ways.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Really Interesting.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: Okay So, Mary we've talked about the wet season quite a bit now and also this concept of knowing trade winds.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: And general conditions which allowed the islanders and military to prepare for what was most likely happen taking away element surprise.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: but let's just change our perspective.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: think not the wet-season but dry-season the British Caribbean islands and the colonies, and The War of Independence.
• 28:05
  Speaker 0: Yes!
• 28:05
  Speaker 0: So it's funny to think about the Caribbean as a place where there is drought because obviously these are pretty tiny islands surrounded by water.
• 28:13
  Speaker 0: but some of these islands don't have any freshwater sources whatsoever.
• 28:17
  Speaker 0: Antigua is one of them.
• 28:19
  Speaker 0: I'm always fascinated by antiga...the fact that the british decided to colonize an island with no fresh water sources.
• 28:27
  Speaker 0: my mind really... speaks to British hubris during the period of colonization, right?
• 28:32
  Speaker 0: And so Antigua faces really successive droughts during the dry season in particular.
• 28:40
  Speaker 0: Right these routes often align with the dry Season but if they haven't been able to bank water During the wet season write up their cisterns are
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: we?
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: can I just interrupt you right here?
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: because as You were saying this They have no fresh water and you'd Just use The phrase To Bank Water.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: explain what's going on with how they have water if they don't.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: And sorry, and there are no native people on Antigua or were their?
• 29:07
  Speaker 0: There always Native People across the Caribbean but often They're pretty mobile right.
• 29:13
  Speaker 0: so they're taking canoes and go in from island to Island.
• 29:16
  Speaker 0: So I Can't remember If there were a need of people an antique at that moment that colonists arrived or not but there would have been the presence of native people.
• 29:27
  Speaker 0: But yes, so Antigua just does not have freshwater sources.
• 29:31
  Speaker 0: and when colonists arrive back in the sixteenth thirties they realize that they need to do something about this—that if there is a wet season then hopefully they'll be able their crops will be okay and they'll have enough water for drinking or cooking, whatever else they might need.
• 29:56
  Speaker 0: And so...they build a series of cisterns right?
• 29:59
  Speaker 0: If you look at Traveler's accounts from
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: the
• 30:03
  Speaker 0: sixteen hundred from the seventeen hundreds of people going to Antigua.
• 30:06
  Speaker 0: They all note that there are cisterns everywhere, they have built these technologies to capture fresh rainwater and obviously cistern's may be kept up.
• 30:14
  Speaker 0: so you're gonna need to invest in them.
• 30:16
  Speaker 0: maintain then make sure their not leaking.
• 30:18
  Speaker 0: maybe replace a wood cisterne with stone cisterna at some point when we had money for do-so.
• 30:23
  Speaker 0: making sure always has this freshwater.
• 30:26
  Speaker 0: The other thing will often do too is build ponds.
• 30:30
  Speaker 0: And so they'll build ponds and hope that those ponds can capture water, their cattle can drink from.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: That
• 30:37
  Speaker 0: people go to the ponds get water if needed for boiling or cleaning.
• 30:42
  Speaker 0: The other thing is that people think wells as a little try-and find fresh water further down.
• 30:50
  Speaker 0: There are some really bad periods of drought throughout colonial history.
• 30:58
  Speaker 0: I study a time period in the seventeen twenties and those seventeen thirties, where if you read The Letters that are outgoing from Antigua people talk about how they might have to experiment with desalinization.
• 31:10
  Speaker 0: They're taking salt water And trying to remove the salt from it so that they can have fresh water?
• 31:15
  Speaker 0: At one point during these two decades things get so dire That they start importing freshwater from nearby Guadalupe.
• 31:23
  Speaker 0: So they will send vessels rival islands that are French colonies and load these vessels up with hogs heads, which is a barrel.
• 31:32
  Speaker 0: It's unit measurement hogsheads of water And then transport them back to Antigua and sell them for pretty high price right?
• 31:38
  Speaker 0: They're going to gouge these prices.
• 31:40
  Speaker 0: So this is something that's been happening for really a long time in the seventeen seventies.
• 31:45
  Speaker 0: scholars have done research.
• 31:46
  Speaker 0: I found out there was also successive years of trial then during American Revolutionary War.
• 31:52
  Speaker 0: So you not only have these hurricanes that people are having to anticipate and recover from, but also ruin foodstuffs in ruined sugar production.
• 32:03
  Speaker 0: A drought can absolutely scorch a field of sugarcane so plantation owner doesn't make very much money.
• 32:11
  Speaker 0: if there's really bad droughts next year maybe it rains then they're able to bake some water sugarcane year, but it really depends on the weather as to how well these colonies are doing.
• 32:28
  Speaker 0: And so like I said yeah there's a really bad drought that coincides with American Revolutionary War and so as a result the trade policies that the British implement are going to have profound effects on this loyal colony because they're not going to be able to import foodstuffs from places they typically import food stuffs Oh, flour.
• 32:53
  Speaker 0: Salted fish all sorts of other everyday goods that people would consume from the continental colonies.
• 33:01
  Speaker 0: and when in seventeen seventy five Great Britain decides to prohibit trade with a rebellious colony is right this Is going have profound impact on colonists
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: in the Caribbean Fascinating.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: so let's kind of focus a little bit more On then the Declaration of Independence And The Breakout Of War in this period.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: And maybe you can just explain to us how some of these British islands might have agreed with colonists about policies of parliament and the king, we think about The Stamp Acts, The Townsend Acts ,The Entirely Blurred Acts, T-Act all that stuff... How are they reacting?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: disappointment with King George, and then maybe can you just tell me a little bit about why at the end of day these British islands like Antigua chose?
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: You know what.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: we don't want to side with the patriots here.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: We need to remain loyal To king George.
• 34:02
  Speaker 0: Absolutely It's great question!
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: You have
• 34:05
  Speaker 0: this british empire that consists far more than the thirteen rebellious colonies.
• 34:09
  Speaker 0: Why did other colonies remained loyal?
• 34:12
  Speaker 0: And...to answer you have to go back.
• 34:17
  Speaker 0: You can go back a long way, but one way to answer this is to talk about the Stamp Act right?
• 34:20
  Speaker 0: So The Stamp Act imposed taxation on the Caribbean and the mainland colonies.
• 34:25
  Speaker 0: so these sugar islands were actually the target of the stamp act And it actually targeted them far more harshly than it targeted the mainland colony.
• 34:37
  Speaker 0: There was a duty that was specifically on estates.
• 34:39
  Speaker 0: That were valued more than twenty pounds and so that is going to target.
• 34:42
  Speaker 0: A lot of people have these sprawling plantations in the Caribbean, And they actually expected revenues from The Stamp Act To be higher In the Caribbean islands then in mainland North America and some places They weren't Jamaica?
• 34:56
  Speaker 0: They generate an incredible amount of revenue From this stamp
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: act.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I'm just Just to break it here.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: i wonder if It's because as you said If tax on properties more than twenty pounds if the The plantations on the islands were just much more profitable They also might have actually more silver and gold coin.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: then your average farmer or Small merchant, or tradesperson in the rebellious colonies who might have never had any silver or gold And I remember the Stamp Act needed to be paid an actual hard metal.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah
• 35:36
  Speaker 0: Yeah, well I mean the Caribbean colonies are just far wealthier than the mainland colonies right?
• 35:41
  Speaker 0: so you can think about this as a way to Generate revenue from these really wealthy places.
• 35:46
  Speaker 0: and The Seven Years War is A global war Right?
• 35:50
  Speaker 0: And So there's fighting across the Caribbean during the seven years war.
• 35:53
  Speaker 0: So it's not Just that the thirteen mainland Colonies have To pay for This war right via These taxes.
• 35:59
  Speaker 0: right the British Empire Is paying For this war via These Taxes.
• 36:02
  Speaker 0: I mean the British occupy Havana during this seven years war, right?
• 36:06
  Speaker 0: There's widespread fighting across the Caribbean.
• 36:08
  Speaker 0: So um i think it's really important to think about these-the stamp act is not just affecting the Thirteen Colonies but affects The British Empire.
• 36:15
  Speaker 0: Right they're trying To pay for This War that had protected and enlarged The British empire
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: But so...but It has nothing to do with the quantity of actual hard currency They had..So
• 36:27
  Speaker 0: they Do have Hard Currency!
• 36:28
  Speaker 0: But there are also like Cash Port at various points right?
• 36:30
  Speaker 0: They Are Like Pain And Sugar And
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: this is what always troubled me about when I think of the Stamp Act.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: If it has to be paid in silver and gold, no one has that then you have a tax that nobody can pay right?
• 36:45
  Speaker 0: Yeah!
• 36:45
  Speaker 0: In the Caribbean on some islands they actually need to create new type of currency.
• 36:52
  Speaker 0: That's not silver or gold like paper note because its specific amount under this stamp act for some of those islands, and so I think it's like three shillings or something that doesn't exist.
• 37:03
  Speaker 0: So they run a bunch of notes with three shrillings.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Fun!
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Good They were doing similar types of printing of odd things in probably thirteen colonies as well.
• 37:14
  Speaker 0: Yeah The Stamp Act affects these Scroogean colonists And Some Colonies and have accepted begrudgingly, but some colonies riot.
• 37:25
  Speaker 0: So in St.
• 37:26
  Speaker 0: Kitt's and Nevis hundreds of people participated in riots about the Stamp Act—in this same way that people are participating in riots
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: in
• 37:36
  Speaker 0: mainland British colonies right?
• 37:37
  Speaker 0: And they burn private homes...they burn Navy boats.
• 37:41
  Speaker 0: The playbook that's happening in the mainland colonies is the same play book.
• 37:44
  Speaker 0: It happens to kids and nephews, but those are only two places where these riots happen right?
• 37:49
  Speaker 0: In Barbados and Jamaica they're not happy about them.
• 37:51
  Speaker 0: They end up paying them.
• 37:53
  Speaker 0: so there yeah There's not widespread riots.
• 37:57
  Speaker 0: But the islanders also reject this right-to-virtual representation And people who have connections with the Caribbean That are in London opposed a stamp act.
• 38:07
  Speaker 0: They play a role in its repeal.
• 38:10
  Speaker 0: And so the Stamp Act, right?
• 38:11
  Speaker 0: is this really interesting moment where you have these colonies that don't end up rebelling still rioting as a result of this tax that they're not happy about?
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: So has-as the acts that the thirteen North American colonies Don't like keep getting passed and tensions rise at a certain point people are forced to make a decision.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And I just recall, say one way that village would determine what side you were on in this conflict and New York would be if you showed up during the militia mustering?
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: If you show it means your on the patriot's side or don't mean is not so?
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: i'm wondering how they're making decisions about which time of rising tension and eventually they have to make a choice.
• 39:09
  Speaker 0: So I'll say after the Stamp
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Act,
• 39:14
  Speaker 0: the Caribbean colonies aren't kind of participating in this rebellion against these policies in the same way—they don't really react much to the Townshend Acts right?
• 39:26
  Speaker 0: And then obviously when The Declaration of Independence is signed They remain loyal to the Crown...and there are several things happening here that we can talk about too.
• 39:35
  Speaker 0: explain why one, almost half of the empire right remained loyal to Great Britain whereas another half broke off and decided to form its own nation.
• 39:44
  Speaker 0: And I think that's when things really understand is that The English liked the Caribbean because it was a place where they could go and get rich.
• 39:52
  Speaker 0: They can go there and launch their plantation if successful then return to England as an incredibly wealthy person often want to stay in the Caribbean, right?
• 40:04
  Speaker 0: They wanna go to the Caribbean.
• 40:05
  Speaker 0: They wanna get rich but they don't want to live in a world where...they have to endure hurricanes Where there's really tropical heat where their living among enslaved super majorities that.. Their afraid might rebel against them.
• 40:21
  Speaker 0: So theres widespread what we call absenteeism where someone would go and they would own a plantation, but they probably live in London.
• 40:30
  Speaker 0: And so what that meant is some of the wealthiest most powerful planters who owned property in the Caribbean actually lived in London!
• 40:38
  Speaker 0: They are very loyal British subjects because they're a British subject—they have amassed this wealth…because these islands were part of the empire.
• 40:47
  Speaker 0: The other thing to know about the Caribbean was it has really high mortality rates for both enslaved people and for white colonists.
• 40:54
  Speaker 0: And so a wealthy Englishman doesn't really want to go this place where they think that might die!
• 41:01
  Speaker 0: So what it meant was, in the year of seventeen seventy-five there were fewer than fifty thousand white colonist living in British Caribbean and two million lived in mainland North American colonies—the continental colonies that are going to rebel.
• 41:18
  Speaker 0: The power is in England.
• 41:20
  Speaker 0: The other thing to know, and this is also what kind of separates the Caribbean from the mainland colonies.
• 41:25
  Speaker 0: Is that...the mainland colonies really have this disdain for standing armies.
• 41:29
  Speaker 0: they have this sustain for British troops right after the Boston Massacre.
• 41:33
  Speaker 0: They are really bitter about the fact you have these British troops there that are supposed to keep order But in the Caribbean the- the British Navy And then the British military as seen a force For making sure enslaved people do not rebel.
• 41:48
  Speaker 0: So they rely on these soldiers to keep order, to maintain slavery in this world where oftentimes the enslaved population of these islands was ten times twelve times fifteen times higher than the white population.
• 42:07
  Speaker 0: And there are multiple either actual rebellions or conspiracies that enslavers, or fearful will turn into an actual rebellion over the course of the seventeenth and eighteenth century.
• 42:20
  Speaker 0: And over the time period leading up to the Revolutionary War during The Revolutionary war.
• 42:25
  Speaker 0: so rather than viewing the British military as this horrible force that's infringing upon their rights they come to view this-the military is crucial to their success right?
• 42:35
  Speaker 0: Crucial to maintaining order in keeping slave trade in this world where there are enslaved super majorities.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think...I just want to emphasize two points you made.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: One is this idea of the standing army being a force for good or being perceived as a Force For Good in these islands because The colonists and the planners had every right to be afraid of slave uprisings!
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: That was reasonable fear-to have given how brutal slavery was And simply the numbers.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, definitely the standing army is helpful there.
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: The second thing though was the fact of absenteeism and actually meant that these very wealthy and that therefore powerful people in London had more influence over decisions being made about them.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: And, very early on this episode I think you said like Parliament raised whatever twenty thousand pounds sterling to help with the reconstruction
• 43:32
  Speaker 0: of a hundred twenty thousand
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: pound sterling.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: well...you know..that only happens because you have people lobbying in London saying please help us so we can keep making money in Jamaica right?
• 43:45
  Speaker 0: Mm-hmm, and it only happens to you because sugar just commands such a high price.
• 43:49
  Speaker 0: The sugar is really the commodity that bankrolls the British Empire for a long time So they want to be able to protect their most profitable colonies.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Fascinating All right.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: so we're coming to an end But I think there are two very important points that we do need to remember as rounding out our discussion here of the importance of trade and the environment, and the Caribbean in telling The Story Of The American Revolution And The Declaration of Independence.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Here I think we need to talk about two specific events—the first is the Continental Association In Seventeen Seventy-Four which was boycott by the colonies of the Thirteen Rebellious Colonies against Other products coming from the British Empire.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I think i got that right.
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: and then in seventeen seventy five Parliament responds with the prohibitory acts which effectively closes trade off From colonies like these caribbean british sugar islands Back to the thirteen rebellious colonies, so why don't you talk about those two?
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Events please?
• 44:57
  Speaker 0: That's a great question And I think the thing we have to think About is that The Caribbean colonies and the mainland colonies are part of the same empire, right?
• 45:04
  Speaker 0: They have these commercial and trade ties that
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: have
• 45:07
  Speaker 0: existed for over a century at this point.
• 45:10
  Speaker 0: And people in the mainland colonies consume sugar that's produced on the Caribbean... ...and then People in the Caribbean.
• 45:16
  Speaker 0: they import foodstuffs!
• 45:18
  Speaker 0: They import building materials-they import things that need to survive in this region.
• 45:22
  Speaker 0: And so people knew this.
• 45:24
  Speaker 0: People in London knew this, and colonists in the mainland colonies new this—and both of them are going to use these in various ways right?
• 45:33
  Speaker 0: To various ends!
• 45:34
  Speaker 0: So in seventeen seventy-four The Mainland Colonist end up organizing a rebellion or boycott by the Continental Congress organizes a boycott known as The Continental Association and that boycott aimed to quote withhold all commercial intercourse with Great Britain Ireland AND the West Indies quote, until parliament repealed what they viewed as these oppressive acts.
• 45:57
  Speaker 0: Alexander Hamilton ends up talking about this right?
• 45:59
  Speaker 0: Alexander Hamilton like I said earlier he's born in the Caribbean and he makes his way to the mainland colonies...and he knew that islanders would not be able to subsist independent of trade with the continental colonies-that this would have a devastating effect on
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: them!
• 46:15
  Speaker 0: And he ends up saying end quote, right?
• 46:22
  Speaker 0: And he said this because he knew how much land was dedicated to sugar and how little land was devoted to consumable foodstuffs.
• 46:30
  Speaker 0: You can't eat sugar I mean well i guess you can't need sugar but it's not going to be something that you can sustain your diet on!
• 46:37
  Speaker 0: Right?!
• 46:37
  Speaker 0: He knew if the mainland colonies cut off trade with the Caribbean colonies then they would convert sugar fields into other types of crops And they'd have to dedicate more fields, to yams and potatoes.
• 46:52
  Speaker 0: To goods that both colonists and enslaved people would need to consume.
• 46:57
  Speaker 0: They know too.
• 46:58
  Speaker 0: if they do this Britain's going to be angry!
• 47:01
  Speaker 0: The continental colonies are targeting the sugar-colonies—the ones who produce all of these wealths.
• 47:07
  Speaker 0: So you'll see it happen in this boycott.
• 47:10
  Speaker 0: since then Obviously there is a revolutionary war That breaks out and in seventeen seventy five, late seventeen seventy-five.
• 47:17
  Speaker 0: So after the conflict is already erupted Parliament ends up passing something called The Prohibitory
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Act
• 47:23
  Speaker 0: And that cut off British trade with the rebellious colonies.
• 47:27
  Speaker 0: It instituted a blockade around them right?
• 47:30
  Speaker 0: so they vowed to seize any ships that are found in violation.
• 47:34
  Speaker 0: They treat as if their enemy vassals.
• 47:36
  Speaker 0: Right this really crucial development because it means the Caribbean islands can't trade with their long-time trading partners.
• 47:45
  Speaker 0: They cant import all of these goods that they are absolutely dependent on from the continental colonies and as a result prices rise, they have to look elsewhere right?
• 47:57
  Speaker 0: for supplies and that's further distance, it is more costly.
• 48:02
  Speaker 0: So you can actually look at count books to track how prices rise during this time period.
• 48:06
  Speaker 0: so if there was one family the Penny Family who had plantations in Nevis The price of planks and boards increased sevenfold between the late-seventeen sixties and the late seventeen seventies.
• 48:20
  Speaker 0: over a decade we talked about deforestation right?
• 48:24
  Speaker 0: This isn't very many trees but people need wood of all sorts to burn fires, to build fences.
• 48:33
  Speaker 0: To process sugarcane and the price of flour also rose.
• 48:36
  Speaker 0: so it was twenty-four shillings a barrel between seventeen sixty eight in seven sixteen nine And it was forty five shillies in seventeen seventy six and sixty shillie's In seventeen seventy nine right?
• 48:49
  Speaker 0: So these trade policies had empirical effect right had real effects on the price of goods that people were consuming across the Caribbean.
• 48:58
  Speaker 0: That's a nevus, but you can see a similar rise in prices if you look at writings and dispatches from Barbados, from Jamaica right?
• 49:07
  Speaker 0: From across The Caribbean
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Islands.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: It's interesting because they could feed themselves Of course If They Changed How They Choose To Use Their Land.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Yes But If They're Not Growing Sugar Then They'r not making profit Exactly.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: And then what is point being there
• 49:22
  Speaker 0: at all?
• 49:23
  Speaker 0: Yeah.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Maybe just a final quick question, do you think there is any way that the Thirteen Rebellious Colonies could have this as a counterfactual?
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Could have convinced any of these islands that it would be better to be part of The New United States?
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: or because I was thinking like maybe the Continental Association boycott and made some of them angry...maybe Because I know like, French Canada was given a blank check to join the United States.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't extended to other colonies or British islands.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: they had to apply but still there is kind of an open door left for them
• 50:09
  Speaker 0: And at one point Bermuda which is out in the Atlantic right not really in the Caribbean.
• 50:13
  Speaker 0: They're pretty sympathetic too The American cause at various points during that revolution.
• 50:20
  Speaker 0: But your question really gets to like a big debate in this field.
• 50:25
  Speaker 0: Are the British colonies?
• 50:27
  Speaker 0: In The Caribbean distinct from the mainland colonies, right?
• 50:29
  Speaker 0: or are they just on like a completely different trajectory From let get go?
• 50:33
  Speaker 0: and I'm hesitant to say yes To that but i will also acknowledge That by the time the American Revolution breaks out.
• 50:39
  Speaker 0: They're Just Really Different Places.
• 50:41
  Speaker 0: Right?
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: I mean
• 50:43
  Speaker 0: most similar place might be South Carolina because there's an enslaved majority in South Carolina, but that's a place producing rice and not sugar.
• 50:50
  Speaker 0: But the cultural ties many
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: of the
• 50:54
  Speaker 0: islanders have to Britain are really strong educated and great Britain as opposed somewhere in the continental colonies.
• 51:04
  Speaker 0: A lot live in Great Britain.
• 51:06
  Speaker 0: so I think by virtue close cultural ties and that the prevalence of absenteeism, it's going to be really hard To convince them to join.
• 51:18
  Speaker 0: They see the British military is helping them And they like being subjects of this empire.
• 51:23
  Speaker 0: Let's help them become really wealthy.
• 51:25
  Speaker 0: So That's an interesting counterfactual.
• 51:27
  Speaker 0: but I think would have been really difficult to convince them.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Okay Good.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Well, we're coming to the end of our episode today.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much Professor Draper.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: I ask all my guests at The End To reflect on the two hundred and fifty year anniversary Of the Declaration of Independence.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: So what do You think about as you Think About this great Interesting Complicated Anniversary?
• 51:49
  Speaker 0: Yeah!
• 51:50
  Speaker 0: The Declaration of independence is so interesting.
• 51:51
  Speaker 0: This past semester i actually taught a whole class On American Revolution And obviously right over the declaration of independence Just last week We had class where we talked about the ways that The Declaration of Independence continues to inspire various independent movements.
• 52:06
  Speaker 0: And one of things in my class, and I talked about was just how there are certain lines that really can't be paraphrased because they're so simple.
• 52:18
  Speaker 0: something about that, but it's pretty easy to just take up and copy paste-up at somewhere else.
• 52:23
  Speaker 0: And so when I think of the Declaration of Independence—I just think about the enduring source of inspiration —it has been for so many different people!
• 52:36
  Speaker 0: The other thing is Many of the islands in the Caribbean are still part of commonwealth, and some of those islands actually recognize Monarch as head-of state.
• 52:47
  Speaker 0: But there's been a movement that has gained traction to remove British monarchs from these islands.
• 52:56
  Speaker 0: so Barbados did it in But Barbados is still a member of the Commonwealth.
• 53:02
  Speaker 0: to be clear, they just don't recognize The Monarch as their head estate.
• 53:05
  Speaker 0: And so I also think about the enduring legacy of the Declaration of Independence and kind of complaints against the monarch playing out today across commonwealth countries right?
• 53:15
  Speaker 0: You'll see protests when there are royal visits these places.
• 53:18
  Speaker 0: So...I anticipate this document continuing to just be this source of inspiration for generations
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: to come.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Professor Mary Draper, thank you so much.
• 53:31
  Speaker 0: Thanks for having
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