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From the White House to the Courtroom · The Lawtino™

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Latino Podcast, where we amplify the voices of Latino professionals, entrepreneurs, and leaders coming together to educate, inspire, and connect across one of the most dynamic binational regions in the world.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Bicultural, premium, powerful.
0:20
SPEAKER_04: Hey Sean Gomez, welcome to another episode of the La Latino Podcast.
0:25
SPEAKER_04: We are in a special location here in Washington, D.C.
0:29
SPEAKER_04: in a special edition of podcast at the Hispanic National Bar Association's annual conference.
0:35
SPEAKER_04: We are connecting with, getting to know a little bit from our wonderful colleagues here at the convention.
0:41
SPEAKER_04: Really interesting, dynamic, impressive people that I know our listeners are going to learn from and be inspired by.
0:47
SPEAKER_04: This uh podcast and episode is brought to you as always by your host and sponsor, Gomez Trial Attorneys.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: Gomez Trial Attorneys is a national consumer rights, or I'm sorry, international uh consumer rights law firm with offices both in the United States and Mexico.
1:03
SPEAKER_04: We call ourselves uh Binacional, Binacional, Bicultural, Bicultural, and Best in Class.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: We have offices both in the United States and Mexico.
1:14
SPEAKER_04: Uh we offer legal representation at the very highest level in both English and Spanish languages, seamlessly, and we are best in class.
1:22
SPEAKER_04: We believe we're the best lawyers at what we do.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: And so I'm joined here today, uh, as always, by my co-host David Arreguin, uh, who leads up our um cross-border practice, who leads up our outreach, and who originally uh was a guest on this podcast himself before uh being invited to join the firm.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: And so uh be careful.
1:42
SPEAKER_04: I know you've had our to our next guest, you've had an illustrious career, but you might end up at Gomez Trial Attorneys.
1:48
SPEAKER_04: Okay, so David Arigin, please introduce our impressive guests for the morning.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: And that's true.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: Like I was on the podcast, and I told John, you know what, I think that I think that was an interview.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think I nailed it because now I'm doing this.
2:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know, we're we're super excited.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: We're on our second day here off the HNBA.
2:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we met a lot of great people, people that approached us, like our guest.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I want to welcome Adrian Sneed, who uh who stopped by uh yesterday saying, Hey, how can I get on the podcast?
2:19
SPEAKER_02: Let's do it.
2:20
SPEAKER_02: So he's our first guest this morning.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: Adrian, welcome.
2:23
SPEAKER_02: We want to hear from you.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: We want to hear about your background.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: I know you had like a long travel last night, two hours just to get home.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
2:31
SPEAKER_02: Maybe like an hour this morning, and he was right on time.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: So thank you for being here.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Tell us a little bit about yourself.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Who says only California can have bad traffic?
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's LA.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: San Diego, we're good.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: A little bit, yeah.
2:43
SPEAKER_03: A little bit.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I gotta thank you guys, and uh, you're talking my language and consumer protection law.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: I uh recently started two Substacks, you UDAP, UDAP Law Monitor uh at Substack and Unfair Trade, where I cover um unfair trade practices, UDAP cases across the country, but mostly in Texas and DC, where I'm licensed uh and work.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: I've I've done consumer protection cases on both sides.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: I think they're very fascinating.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: Um DC is a particularly fascinating jurisdiction because the consumer protection cases here, you have statutory penalties that are a minimum of$1,500 per incident.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: So um really interesting.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: I know that's a kind of a side.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh thank you for inviting me.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being at HNBA.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: I have been this is probably my 14th or 15th convention.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow I started as a second-year law student uh coming to conventions when uh a more senior person uh in the uh Hispanic uh Law Students Association said, Hey, you should really consider going to this.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and I was able to convince the school to provide some funding for a number of us to go.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh my second year, and by my third year, we had institutionalized uh sending up to 10 kids to go where the full school would fund most of them.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of people here, but uh a lot for my law school.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: But that's uh that's neither here.
3:59
SPEAKER_01: Where was that?
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Where was your last George Washington?
4:01
SPEAKER_01: So I went to GW.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Um I went to Texas undergrad, and I'm excited for uh uh kicking Ohio State's butt this weekend.
4:09
SPEAKER_04: Oh, is that game tomorrow?
4:10
SPEAKER_04: It's games tomorrow.
4:11
SPEAKER_04: That's a big game, man.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: Where are they playing that?
4:13
SPEAKER_01: They're playing it in Austin.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's a big game.
4:15
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's gonna be a big one.
4:16
SPEAKER_04: Woo! Thank you for the heads up, man.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh don't put your podcast out on that day.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's gonna listen.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I uh I grew up in Texas in San Antonio, uh, went to UT undergrad, uh, went to uh took a full ride to come to GW up here.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: In between, I worked in New York City at the Manhattan DA's office.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I did this mostly on my own.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: My my parents went bankrupt when I was a kid.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, I got full scholarships, undergrad, scholarship, or nearly full scholarship, undergrad, full scholarship to law school.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm uh I'm a believer in bootstrapping it, but I also know a lot of people help along the way.
4:52
SPEAKER_01: Um but I came here, uh I chose DC, not just because of the scholarship, but because it was the Obama administration.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh I got here just before Obama did, before the election, but I was very confident he was gonna be elected, and I wanted to work in the administration.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I wanted to work, you know, I I'm a worker.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of people that I met in law school that love school, really just want to put their nose in a book or research law.
5:20
SPEAKER_01: I like you, I like what y'all do.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I like being trial lawyer.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't I like being a trial lawyer.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I've been to only a few trials, unfortunately.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's in you though.
5:28
SPEAKER_04: If it's in you, it's gonna come out and you're gonna get your chances.
5:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: But it's a lot of fun.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: It's the most stressful thing you can do, but it's also the funnest thing you can do.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was lucky during law school.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I worked um every summer and semester after my first year.
5:44
SPEAKER_01: So I spent uh two summers in a semester at the Department of Justice and then a semester at the White in Obama's White House, uh, which was really just a terrific experience.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: Came out, wanted to do um public service, which is why I took the scholarship.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Never wanted to go into big law uh in particular, but uh I came out and I actually ended up uh with a clerkship uh that I did not deserve.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: My grades were nowhere near what would would qualify somebody for a federal clerkship.
6:14
SPEAKER_01: I had a 3.19 graduating.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: Um you're a worker though.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: You're a worker, you know, and uh and and in this city uh you have to impress people, but sometimes getting in the door is the hardest part.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And I was really lucky to have a friend from undergrad that knew the chief judge of the federal district court here.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: His name is Royce Lambert, he's still a still a judge on the court, and um he got me in the door.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: And as a fellow Texan, fellow Texas grad, we actually grew up uh 30 years apart or 40 years apart, but only a few miles apart.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: So we really connected, and he offered me a clerkship, and so I ended up um, it was a year out, so I had to find something to do for a year.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh I couldn't go to government because they required if you were going to do the honors program or something, you have to commit to several years, and they wouldn't want me.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: They didn't, they didn't let you just leave in midway and go clerk.
7:05
SPEAKER_01: So I ended up working at Greenberg Trourig for this great group of old trial lawyers from North Carolina who had joined the firm some years before, but they were plaintiffs' lawyers.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: So the first case I ever did uh was the first international arbitration uh under CAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement, against Guatemala.
7:23
SPEAKER_01: And we were plaintiffs uh and we won that case.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: And that really put it in me.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was just the funnest experience.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, I was just there basically for the trial, the briefing had been done, and it was two months of preparation, and then we were in trial for uh 10-12 days.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: It was it was wonderful.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: Look at that, so in our country, huh?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: So who who's who was your client?
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh our client was a railroad company.
7:46
SPEAKER_01: They had uh contracted with the government to uh to re-establish the country's railroad system, and then uh you know, they started getting popular, and yeah, we decided we're just gonna take it, we're just gonna expropriate your property.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, okay.
8:01
SPEAKER_04: It's a good thing you didn't say Mexico because we would have ended the podcast right away.
8:05
SPEAKER_04: Well, what the Malocan, no, I'm just kidding, everyone.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it was fun, and we put the government's uh attorney general on the stand, and that's when I saw the real power of trials.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've worked on The Hill, which I did later in my career, and I try to explain law now to people as a couple things.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: One, a trial is therapeutic, and I personally get very upset when these attorneys generals like just settle with Facebook, right?
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Settlements are easy for the company, but it denies people what a trial does.
8:40
SPEAKER_01: And a trial is, in a sense, um social therapy for the people involved, for the companies involved, for the people interested.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: You get everything out and you put it in a jury's hands, or sometimes a judge's hands, or arbitrator's hands.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: You don't always win, but I've never been to a trial, never seen people go through trial that haven't said, I am glad, uh, that haven't said, I'm glad that happened.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: I got to tell my story.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: I may not have won.
9:09
SPEAKER_01: I may not believe this is the right outcome, or I may believe this is the right outcome, but it was so important to do it.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm a big believer uh in the trial practice, and I hope it really comes back in this country.
9:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I totally agree.
9:22
SPEAKER_04: Obviously, we're active trial lawyers um in trial all the time.
9:26
SPEAKER_04: I will say one of our first guests was uh New Mexico Attorney General Raul Torres, who actually did take Meta to trial and got the first verdict uh in a series followed closely by Mark Lanier out of Texas, you know, that we just attended his trial academy.
9:40
SPEAKER_04: If you haven't gone to that, it's highly recommended.
9:43
SPEAKER_04: Super, super, super good learning.
9:44
SPEAKER_04: But, you know, like you're the first guest, to my knowledge, that we've had on here.
9:48
SPEAKER_04: And a lot of what we put out is for, you know, aspiring lawyers, law students, young lawyers that has talked about having a federal clerkship.
9:57
SPEAKER_04: And I had a federal clerkship too.
9:59
SPEAKER_04: Um, but like just explain what that is, you know, why it's a good thing, you know, what your great experience was.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so the legal profession, especially on the on the big law corporate side, is very credentials focused because that's how they sell you.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: That's how they get somebody to pay$2,500 an hour for for you.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you that there are plenty of lawyers that charge$2,500 an hour that aren't as good as lawyers that charge$500 an hour.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: It it doesn't matter.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: But for a lot of companies, they want to hire the best, and this is the best.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: So federal clerkships are highly sought after, generally very hard to get.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: I remember the year I was clerking, our judge had 1,200 applications uh for three slots.
10:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh my god.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: This is the chief judge.
10:43
SPEAKER_04: This was the chief judge, the guy that you ended up clerking for.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: I ended up clerking for my goodness, wow.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: 1,200 applications uh for three slots.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was helping review those for the for the years coming.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Um but uh a clerk uh at the federal court, and judges run their their their chambers differently, but your job is to essentially help the judge do his job or her job.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, you read the briefing, you in our case, we drafted all the opinions for the judge's review.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: He would make edits, some judges edit more, some judges edit less.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you would talk to the judge about your opinions, you would talk to the judge about um what you thought about the case, the parties, uh, and then you uh write the final opinion that he signs, and it gets published as an opinion.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: So every opinion you read, a lot of the times they're written by these people fresh out of law school, one or two years out of law school.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: And part of my practice and what I think I bring that's different from a lot of other folks is I remember reading those opinions.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh strike that.
11:48
SPEAKER_01: I remember reading the briefing, and lawyers just assume because they're writing for a judge, the judge knows all the background, the judge knows when I write, I write for the clerk.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: I take them step by step.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: I want to explain why we're right all the way up, not just jump right into it and you know, do what I think a lot of people train lawyers to do is just be good advocates.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: Just, you know, get in, get out, say what you want.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And and no, when you're writing for a federal judge, uh, you need to explain to these young people who may know absolutely nothing about evidence law or absolutely nothing about the area of law you're litigating in, but they gotta learn it.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: They gotta sit there and learn it and then make a decision on uh what they're gonna recommend to the judge.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: They got to write the opinion or write the memos that the judge is gonna use, and then the opinion goes out.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: So uh I think it's really important that uh people understand, lawyers who don't clerk, understand how vital clerks are to the judiciary.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: They are the workhorses, they are the staff, uh, and they're the closest people to the judge.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm still extremely close to my judge.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, I have a case before him, so I gotta be very careful.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: So I don't get to talk to him now.
12:59
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, my judge, I my judge, here's the story.
13:01
SPEAKER_04: My judge wouldn't take my cases at all.
13:03
SPEAKER_04: She would recuse herself for a good 20 years.
13:07
SPEAKER_04: But then, um, for whatever reason, I guess maybe we passed the 20-year mark or whatever.
13:13
SPEAKER_04: Um, she started taking my cases, and I actually got to try a case in front of her, which was a real treat and honor, and thank gosh we won.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll tell you, I did try a case in front of him already.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: And it was against the Republic of Iraq.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: So very good country that I guess.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, hey, man.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, oh gosh.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, that was a that was a very interesting case where it was uh our client was a small um uh government contractor who had received a contract just after Iraq, after we returned Iraq uh to their own government.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, the company's job was to refurbish the military.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Basically, fix the tanks, paint them, give them, you know, give them a once over, make sure they work.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh things were quite corrupt at that time.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: He ended up with a bullet in his head, and all the money he was uh supposed to get from that contract disappeared to a third party.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: No.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: So we were able to successfully bring a lawsuit against the country of Iraq.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: We won the suit.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh it went up to the DC circuit twice, the DC Circuit sent it back down twice, and ultimately uh the Supreme Court wouldn't review it.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: So um, even though we won, sometimes you don't win on appeal.
14:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so talk about that.
14:24
SPEAKER_04: I mean, um, for our listeners again, I want to return to this idea of clerkships.
14:29
SPEAKER_04: You know, you can clerk at the district court level, which are trial courts.
14:33
SPEAKER_04: You know, your judge probably had a criminal docket and a civil docket all at once.
14:37
SPEAKER_04: You could go out there and watch trials from time to time, I imagine.
14:40
SPEAKER_04: Um, but then you could also, like uh, like he was saying, like it went up to the court of appeal.
14:45
SPEAKER_04: You can be an appellate uh court clerk, you can work for one of the appellate justices or judges on the various circuits, or in the big daddy of them all, I guess, you could go all the way to the Supreme Court.
14:57
SPEAKER_04: They have clerks too.
14:58
SPEAKER_04: So um explain a little bit about that difference.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: So the trial courts are just that trial courts.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: It's where everything starts.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: I think they're the most interesting to clerk for because you get the wide breadth of uh uh experience from civil to criminal.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: We also had a miscellaneous docket, really random things.
15:19
SPEAKER_04: What's on the miscellaneous docket?
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh, so guantanamo cases.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: I did, I wrote, I got to draft an opinion uh in a guantanamo case.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the one of the unique things about being here in in Washington and clerking for this court is you get cases that almost nobody else gets.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: Uh a lot of cases against the government.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I was uh privileged.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: I had a top secret SCI clearance.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: Um we we did uh we even had a case that the that was against the NSA.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: None of the clerks could work on that because the clearance was so high, only the judge could see the documents.
15:53
SPEAKER_04: Oh, wow.
15:53
SPEAKER_04: Which was Judge's like, I gotta read something.
15:55
SPEAKER_04: What is going on?
15:58
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, like, I entered for a magistrate judge in the Southern District in San Diego, and I realized that you know, it's basically the clerks, the entrants actually doing all the work, and the judge like trusts the clerks a lot.
16:11
SPEAKER_04: I mean, in defense of the judiciary, like, yeah, we're saying oh, we did all the work.
16:16
SPEAKER_04: The judge will look at that outcome, and the judge knows like a thousand times more than any of us.
16:20
SPEAKER_04: And oftentimes I'll be like, oh, grant summary judgment.
16:23
SPEAKER_04: They'll be like, nah.
16:24
SPEAKER_04: You know, they they they pull the plug on the final decision.
16:27
SPEAKER_04: Right.
16:28
SPEAKER_04: We we might provide the fluffery and the language, but uh so go ahead.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do we do all the work.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, as you guys know, I mean, you know, now that I'm a more senior attorney in like gray hair here, by the way.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: Am I supposed to be looking at you or looking over here on the other hand?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: No, anyway, anyway, anyway.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, when you've been practicing as long as you have things, you just start to know things.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to look at exactly every little angle.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's fun for a clerk because you've got to look at every angle, you gotta analyze things from every angle.
16:56
SPEAKER_01: You gotta take the parties.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: Because it's generally uh a one-year term, right?
16:59
SPEAKER_02: Like generally a one-year term.
17:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sometimes it'll take two.
17:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
17:03
SPEAKER_04: Or they might have a permanent law clerk.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_04: I know some of those.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh it depends on on the judge what they want to do.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: They can have a permanent, they can have two-year terms, one-year terms.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: It's really completely up to the judge.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh, they get a certain number of slots depending on what is it, like three now or two?
17:19
SPEAKER_01: So it's normally three.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: We had four because he was the chief judge.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he's back down to three now that he's uh senior status.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: Um so on the appellate courts, uh, you know, appellate courts review what the trial courts do.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: And it becomes much more about procedure and about interpreting the law.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Although I'd say we did a lot of that because my judge did not like to get overturned.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: So we had to write for the DC circuit, which loves to overturn district court clerk, uh district judges.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in in many trial courts, you know, there are some trial courts that don't even issue opinions.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: We issued opinion on everything.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Every uh discovery issue, we issued an opinion.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh Judge Lamberth has uh some of the most he may have the most or close to the most opinions on discovery issues.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh certainly in the DC circuit, uh, maybe nationwide.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: And um wow.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: But that's because we wrote for everything and he wanted everything decided on the papers.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Even when we had an oral argument, he would almost never decide anything from the bench.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, other judges decide everything from the bench.
18:22
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the uh Eastern District of Virginia is uh famous.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they won't even write you an opinion on our docket?
18:28
SPEAKER_04: Is that what the rocket docket?
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Still called that, still called that.
18:31
SPEAKER_04: Well, that we drove that we're that's like Alexandria, right?
18:33
SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's right.
18:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we drove just across the river over here.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: I feel like just getting here, we went through what like 15 different states.
18:41
SPEAKER_04: Well, at least at least three, you know, you're in Virginia, you're in Maryland.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: What are we?
18:48
SPEAKER_04: Like I'm the one coming to Washington.
18:49
SPEAKER_04: Where are we right now?
18:50
SPEAKER_04: We're in Maryland right now.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: We're in Maryland right now.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're across it's called National Harbor.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know if that explains it.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: It's really hard to describe the judiciary, especially to people who aren't lawyers, because um, you know, one thing I learned is after you've been training for a lawyer a while, you just talk differently, right?
19:07
SPEAKER_01: Like you and you expect a level of understanding of some things.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: And and it uh I got to work in the U.S.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: Senate for several years.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: That was one of the best trainings as a lawyer for me because I worked with a lot of non-lawyers.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And I had to ex, I had to, I don't want to say dumb down, but I did have to simplify things.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, and it taught me how to write much faster, write much simpler.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, unfortunately, now they've been private back in private practice for 10 years, uh almost 10 years.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: That's like uh I'm losing a little bit of that.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: So unfortunately, your your audience here is is uh seeing that.
19:38
SPEAKER_04: So talk about uh ACMBA.
19:41
SPEAKER_04: I know you started as a law student, you're able to get some funding to come out, you've been involved ever since.
19:47
SPEAKER_04: You've been to all these conferences.
19:49
SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna be in Puerto Rico next year?
19:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure hoping I am.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: All right, yeah, yeah.
19:52
SPEAKER_04: How can you miss that one?
19:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we've had it here in DC for three straight years.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we used to travel every year.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we're going back traveling every year.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, not that DC isn't great, but uh you know, it's time to move around some more.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: But then he's coming down to uh San Diego in 2029.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: 2019.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
20:11
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna be ready for that.
20:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be great.
20:14
SPEAKER_04: Then we can jump on our bus, which is going, uh, we're gonna cross the border down to uh Valle de Guadalupe, some of the finest wines in the world.
20:20
SPEAKER_04: Oh, and then but David wants to stop on the way back in Tijuana and how there's a place he'd like to take you.
20:28
SPEAKER_04: No, we'll talk about uh how HNBA has been uh something important to you over the years and why you stay involved.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, it's it's absolutely helped uh change my life and career.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: I will tell you the first HNBA convention I went to was in uh Albuquerque.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was standing behind uh a gentleman in line to get lunch or dinner, I don't remember what it was, and they had enchiladas, and I was so excited because I hadn't had enchiladas since I left Texas.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And I told him, I was I just blurred out, oh my God, I'm so excited I have enchiladas.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: I haven't had him since I left Texas.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: He turns around, we have a conversation.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: He happens to be then vice president Biden's chief of administration.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, and he helped shepherd my application for a White House in terms of over some enchiladas.
21:13
SPEAKER_04: Over some enchiladas in Albuquerque, New Mexico routes.
21:15
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
21:16
SPEAKER_04: A's from Albuquerque.
21:18
SPEAKER_04: Great state and great city.
21:20
SPEAKER_04: Um did you get your enchiladas?
21:22
SPEAKER_04: Can you get them like Christmas style?
21:23
SPEAKER_04: Did you get them with the red and the greenos?
21:27
SPEAKER_04: No, they're good.
21:29
SPEAKER_04: That's what they call it, right?
21:31
unknown: Bluehorn Christmas.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right, all right.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, it's hard for me to say that those were damn good enchiladas.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm from Texas.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: We have a competition, you know.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: You guys in California don't even know if you're gonna be able to do that.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: You guys can fight for second place.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: We got first.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh but that helped put me on the trajectory.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: That's so amazing, man.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and really, I don't think if I hadn't been at the White House, I probably wouldn't have gotten that clerkship.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um people at the White House reached out on my behalf to the judge.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, very nice.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's another Thing.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, these judges, uh, a lot of people don't know this, especially in these coasts, but you're talking about Supreme Court clerkships, there are fee, what are called feeder judges.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: And uh usually from appellate courts.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, my judge was a feeder judge, and to some of those feeder judges on the DC circuit, you know, when I clerked, Judge Kavanaugh, Justice Kavanaugh was just a uh a lowly DC circuit judge.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, his he had great clerks, talked all the time.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh he used to go, we used to run next to each other on the treadmills in the uh in the gym there.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: But uh it's a very as you move up the chain, uh, and every circuit's different.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: The Ninth Circuit's very different, the Eighth Circuit, every circuit's very different.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: But there are these feeder judges, judges that are uh known to the Supreme Court, that are friendly with them, uh, who the justices trust to train clerks.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: So if they're gonna look at a clerk, they want them to know, they want to know that clerk has been trained by a judge that they trust uh before they look at the application.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: So it's not that every clerk goes through a feeder judge, but there are judges that get more clerks to the Supreme Court than others.
23:05
SPEAKER_04: For sure.
23:06
SPEAKER_04: So HMBA, like what you you run into this person just getting some enchiladas changes your your life, really.
23:13
SPEAKER_04: Really, yeah.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so connections, it sounds like it's great for connections.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: This is a small community.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, we are a uh the Latino community is larger than any other minority group, yet we have fewer lawyers.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, you may not see that in California, but we certainly see that across the country.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: Um, HNBA, uh, I think I hope we grow.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: We have gone through ups and downs in our growth.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're in a little bit of a down cycle right now.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm excited about Puerto Rico.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: I think it's gonna attract a lot of folks.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited to get back to the West Coast.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, one area we we don't have enough members from is the West Coast.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, I also want to see more plaintiffs' lawyers here.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: I just went to the AAJ conference.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Um American Association of Justice.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: I had never been.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to check it out.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: How was it?
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
24:01
SPEAKER_02: We saw the dates and we are members, but we haven't been to that aisle.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: I will tell you, those um CLEs and trainings were the best I have ever been to because those are all well-seasoned trial attorneys giving you real insight.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're a trial attorney, you're gonna do better here if you want to do appellate law, right?
24:20
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna meet um uh appellate practitioners, Supreme Court practitioners, you're gonna meet uh appellate judges sometimes that are either former that are HNBA members uh or that are here to speak.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: And you're certainly not really gonna get that at the AHA conference.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: But if you're a trial lawyer, which most lawyers are, that is the vast majority of I think lawyers in the country are doing you know trial work, whether you actually go to trial or not, uh, the AAJ conference was just phenomenal.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: And of course, I I find this really weird, this distinction.
24:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, this is a more of a corporate side, so more business lawyers and the AAJ conference, you actually have to uh do an honor code that say you get more of your business from uh from plaintiff's work.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: And look, I just think that's that's not the best way to do this profession.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I think both sides need to understand the others better.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the reasons I think I I do very good trial work on the defense side is because I know the plaintiff's side.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: I know how plaintiff's lawyers think, I know the strategies.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and same thing on their side.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: When I'm doing a plaintiff's case, which I have a couple civil rights cases now, uh, I know how defense lawyers think and I know the differences, and I can see that.
25:31
SPEAKER_01: And so that experience I think is really vital.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So I hope we get more folks like you.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Your podcast is here.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I hope to see you every year.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and if I don't, I'll be calling you and saying where the four where were y'all?
25:44
SPEAKER_02: That's the plan.
25:44
SPEAKER_02: We're not missing this one anymore.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: No, especially Puerto Rico.
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Especially Puerto Rico.
25:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
25:48
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
25:49
SPEAKER_04: He's he's a big reggae tonight.
25:51
SPEAKER_04: So he can't miss it.
25:53
SPEAKER_04: Hey, I have I have some news for you that you might be interested in.
25:57
SPEAKER_04: We are um forming um a national Latino travelers organization that we want to, you know, for the reasons you say, yeah, you know, like this is a great group that we'd like to be super involved in and maybe develop like a trial section, maybe would be cool.
26:13
SPEAKER_04: Like maybe you can be part of that with us and sign me up.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: I and we talk you you mentioned um you mentioned the uh the the trial um academy that you did down in Texas.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: You know, we need a trial academy.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we don't have totally.
26:26
SPEAKER_04: I agree, man.
26:27
SPEAKER_04: I think that'd be fun, and I think people would be interested.
26:29
SPEAKER_04: Actually, like we'd still great.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: But we have that we have that in our office.
26:33
SPEAKER_02: So we have a uh built-in like courtroom, right?
26:35
SPEAKER_02: And we have our internal trial academy where we're actually practicing.
26:39
SPEAKER_02: But when trial comes in, you're like ready.
26:40
SPEAKER_02: It's like any practice, right?
26:42
SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: So practice, practice, practice.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: But I feel like you don't see that enough at uh conferences.
26:46
SPEAKER_01: You don't, okay.
26:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like very uh, what is it, very like uh, you know, a lot of like classes, but not practice.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Correct.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: And uh and for y'all and for other trial lawyers, one thing I think HB NBA and I will recommend this to the incoming president, uh we should have an appellate academy.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: Everything appellate law is very different from trial law, as you know.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: And appellate arguments are very different.
27:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it, you know, if you don't know, if you're not setting your trial up for the potential appeal, you're in danger.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: I have a friend on trial right now, and they just lost um uh an issue.
27:24
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that's great, because if you lose the trial, you're gonna get this case overturned because that is a very central issue, and the judge just got it wrong.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And so thinking like that and preparing like that, um, I always want to partner with appellate lawyers whenever I'm doing uh a trial, because the appellate lawyers are gonna tell me how to set things up to make sure, one, I didn't miss anything for appeal and we're not giving anything away, we're not waiving anything, and two, how to set issues up that if we lose, they're already set up for appeal so that we can change the course of what happens.
27:58
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's uh it's funny you you talk about that because you know, the first maybe 10 years of trying cases, I was a win at all cost guy, you know.
28:06
SPEAKER_04: But you know, as I go on, I just want to keep my verdict.
28:10
SPEAKER_04: And so I'll give away issues like say there's like a close issue, like on a jury instruction that could kind of go either way, like that's an appellate issue.
28:19
SPEAKER_04: Like that, if I'm wrong on that and the judge is wrong, we're getting we're trying the case again.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: Right.
28:23
SPEAKER_04: And so I'll be like, okay, I'll give that away, I'll argue it differently.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: You got to see the bigger picture for sure.
28:29
SPEAKER_04: And I think that comes with age and maybe experience and maybe some exposure to the appellate process, you know, like you've had, uh fortunately for your clients.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I appreciate that.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: And uh, I'm sure um, you know, I think there's a lot to learn from both sides.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: I love the idea of a trial academy, I love the idea of a trial section, uh, and I think that's gonna bring a lot of value to the HNBA.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think we could grow the membership.
28:53
SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I think historically there's been a little bit of a division between Hispanic national and La Raz Local.
29:01
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
29:01
SPEAKER_04: And like some perceived but not, you know, accurate ideological differences.
29:06
SPEAKER_04: But, you know, it's all familia.
29:08
SPEAKER_04: We got to bring everybody together.
29:09
SPEAKER_04: So we'll have we're committed to help that, you know.
29:12
SPEAKER_04: We obviously know a lot of people.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because for example, in San Diego, like I don't feel like a lot of people know, not a lot of people know about HMBA.
29:19
SPEAKER_02: But now we're like getting the word out, like, you know, my cousin, he was here, he's like the regional director, whatever it's called.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and now HMBA connected with La Raza in San Diego.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and we just don't like law students, like you start as a law student.
29:32
SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the people that we actually had on the podcast, yeah, like at this conference, they start as a law student, which means that you know they're they're retaining those members, right?
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Which is very difficult for these types of people.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is the most comfortable conference I can go to.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a lot of people, especially that come from uh more difficult backgrounds that overcome things or you know, are Latino.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: And look, I I look pretty white.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I know this might be, and yeah, my parents are European, but they went to Argentina, and so my family is all from Argentina.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Um HNBA takes all comers, everybody likes it, everybody likes each other, and we get great corporate sponsors.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: You know, I ended up working at Amazon for a while, and I only got that job because of the HNBA, because I met the Amazon representatives here when I was ready to leave my firm.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I really wanted to go try in-house for a bit.
30:19
SPEAKER_01: That's when I learned I was really a trial lawyer and was like, man, I love in-house, but I want to be in the courtroom.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I got that opportunity from being here at HNBA 100%.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: Had it not been for that, uh, you know, I had applied previously to the company and always just the AI or whatever they use just kind of washed me out.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: But I got to meet people here, I got to talk to Amazon, senior lawyers there, and uh I got to meet recruiters because Amazon usually brings recruiters here.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh, Apple does, Microsoft does.
30:51
SPEAKER_01: Um and you get invited to these things.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh you get invited to meet with these folks, or you just meet them at breakfast or lunch.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: And um it's just such a great organization.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I can't say enough about it.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: All I want it for it is to grow, to get bigger, to bring in more folks from the West Coast, more folks from the South.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh I think there's a lot we can do as a community.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: And um, I just hope we continue uh pushing this community forward, bringing in law students, bringing in lawyers, bring in lawyers of all stripes.
31:24
SPEAKER_04: Love it.
31:25
SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks so much for spending time.
31:27
SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much for sharing about yourself and helping our listeners.
31:31
SPEAKER_04: Um, so uh our kind of wrap-up question we we use in every podcast.
31:36
SPEAKER_04: There's a guy, also Trava, who does a podcast.
31:38
SPEAKER_04: He's a Mexican guy, and he ends all his podcast by saying, if you could write in the sky words for everyone to read, what would your message to the world be forever?
31:51
SPEAKER_02: You know, no, it's not for that one, which was good.
31:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm a big Ted Lasso fan, so it would just be believe and believe in yourself.
31:57
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
31:58
SPEAKER_04: Very cool.
31:58
SPEAKER_04: Ted Lasso is a man.
32:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
32:00
SPEAKER_04: All right.
32:01
SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you so much.
32:02
SPEAKER_04: Thank you for spending time with us.
32:03
SPEAKER_04: Um, thank you.
32:04
SPEAKER_04: If if folks want to look you up and find you, they can find you on LinkedIn.
32:07
SPEAKER_04: I understand.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Uh Adrian Sneed, just look me up on LinkedIn.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm at a law firm called Porter Wright.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, my last name is very English, even though my father's last name is La Rosa.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Uh name by marriage.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: But if you uh Google that name and lawyer or DC, I'm usually the only thing that comes up.
32:24
SPEAKER_04: So good.
32:25
SPEAKER_04: I love it.
32:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, easy to find.
32:26
SPEAKER_04: So thanks for your time.
32:27
SPEAKER_04: Uh, if you this concludes this uh episode of the Latino Podcast.
32:32
SPEAKER_04: If you like us, follow us, share us, comment, uh, spread the word.
32:36
SPEAKER_04: Uh super happy to be here at the Hispanic National Bar Association.
32:40
SPEAKER_04: And and uh that signs off this episode of the Latino Podcast.