Latest / Wellness by Designs - Practitioner Podcast / Livaux: Enter the Era of Microbiome Targeted Fibre with Ping Ong

Transcript

Livaux: Enter the Era of Microbiome Targeted Fibre with Ping Ong · Wellness by Designs - Practitioner Podcast

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Wellness by Designs.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Andrew Whitfield Cook, and joining us today is Ping Ong, a product champion with Livox.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to be discussing the many benefits of this patented New Zealand gold kiwi fruit powder.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Wellness by Designs, Ping.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, thank you.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: How are you, Andrew?
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Really good.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: All the more better after not stumbling over your introduction.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: But welcome.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think we we really have to start with um I've been introduced to New Zealand gold kiwi fruit powder previously, but can you explain for our listeners and our viewers exactly what it is and and where is it positioned?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think before I introduce Libbox, it will be good to talk about the company that produces Libox.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So we're from Energenics.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: So for those of you who don't know, Energenics is a New Zealand ingredient manufacturer who specializes in producing whole, clean, whole fruit ingredients for neutraceuticals.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we only use locally grown fruits, and that gives us full control over the whole supply chain.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: So Livox is one of our many flagship products.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it is, like you said, it's made from gold kiwi fruit.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a free-strike powder and it's positioned as a precision prebiotic.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, in the past we used to think, oh, it was all the lactobacilli, you know.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then we realized uh actually lactobacilli aren't one of the major dominant species in the gut.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Can you take us through these keystone bacteria?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: There may be indeed other microbes, but let's stick to bacteria.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Keystone bacteria, and what makes livox um so integral in helping them to thrive?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I think before we get into that, it'll be good to talk about what keystone bacteria actually is or are.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: So keystone bacteria are critical players that help to keep the gut healthy and balanced.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So they may play important metabolic functions like breaking down starch or polysaccharides.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: They may also be involved in producing short-chain fatty acids.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So these are important compounds to keep the gut healthy.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So in the term, in the case of fecally bacterium procincy, what we call FPR for short, it is one of the most abundant bacteria in a healthy gut.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we know from many research that lower levels of FPR is consistently associated with different conditions like IBS, IBD, and increasingly a number of metabolic and neurological conditions.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: So the key role of FPR or the key function of FPR lies in the metabolites that it produces.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it is one of the major butyrate producers in the gut, but besides butyrate, it also produces other metabolites that help to regulate inflammation.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So what they target is or what they inhibit is what we call nuclear factor kappa B, which acts like a master switch of inflammation in the body.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So besides that, FPR also interacts with cells in the immune system.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So these are your dendritic cells, your regulatory T cells, and this interaction just helps to keep the immune response under control.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And but I think the most important thing that we have to remember is that F-PRAL, the benefits really come from the butyrate it produces.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So butyrate does not just reduce inflammation, it also plays so many different different roles in the body.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: It feeds your gut cells, it keeps your tight junction cells, between cells functioning properly, and it also just helps keep everything moving along properly.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ping, thank you so much for shortening Fecali bacteria proud snitzi to fprow because I've stumbled over that bacterial uh genus and species so often.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll call it FPR from now on.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, can I ask, why is it so so meaningful that um we're engaging FPR with this um uh fiber with this with Livox?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what makes well we've talked about why FPR is so important because it's a key butate producer, it helps with managing inflammation and immune regulation in the body.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: But a key thing about FPR is that it's extremely oxygen sensitive.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that means historically we've really struggled um to deliver it or produce it in a stable probiotic format.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we are seeing advances in encapsulation technology, and I believe Designs for Health is leading the charge in that.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: But before that, LivOx was the first and only prebiotic that has been shown to increase FPR and increase it by twofold in certain cases.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is such a big deal because you have this bacteria that everyone knows is critical for gut health, but no one seems to be able to target it in a uh replicable way.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And and you spoke about butyrate previously being one of the most important uh metabolites of FPRO.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you translate increases in butyrate into clinical outcomes?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I always default to uh you know short chain fatty acid production in like vaginal microbiota and vaginal conditions, but where else?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, butyrate and the other short-chain fatty acids, but butyrate especially, is arguably one of the most important postbiotics or gut fermentation products that comes out from gut fermentation, and the research on it is very well established.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it plays a couple of key roles uh in the gut.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, number one, it feeds uh the cells in your colon.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we call this the colonocytes, uh and that helps to keep the gut barrier functioning healthily.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: So it keeps the bad bacteria or the bad microbes or whatever you want to keep out of your circulation out while it still allows, uh while still allowing nutrients to pass through.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so that's the first bit, it's the primary energy source for colonocytes.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing is that butyrate um stimulates mucus production.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this forms a thick layer in your gut that becomes the first line of physical defense.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: The third thing is that it also helps to upregulate tight junction proteins.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So think of this like the glue between the cells in your gut that helps to um regulate what comes in and what goes uh and what stays out.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and beyond that, uh butyrate also interacts or inhibits certain protein complexes, uh, so things like nuclear factor kappa B or uh histone deacetylase that act like uh master switches for inflammation in the body.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, but these are the effects that we normally see in the gut, uh, but beyond the gut, butyrate also um has effects.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, first thing, when your gut barrier is functioning properly, uh we prevent or we reduce uh the translocation of toxins and bacterial fragments um into the circulation because we believe that this leads to low-grade inflammation.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but butyrate can also add like signaling molecules that take part in multiple gut body axis, so things like your gut brain axis, your gut immune axis, your gut metabolic axis.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so butyrate is on and livox is not just a gut story, it has whole body implications.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and how important is this combination of, you know, when you're talking about producing short-chain fatty acids like butyrate, um, and then also looking at the assessment of the change in the microbiota, particularly FPR, um, when you're assessing true clinical efficacy in conditions.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would say microbiome change, being able to see microbiome change uh change gives us a window into what might be happening when someone takes a supplement.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this helps us move beyond issues that are typically associated with just symptoms uh reporting.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So things like placebo effect or other non-specific factors.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have both symptom improvement and some indications of microbiome change, this gives us an indication that there might be an underlying biological mechanism at play here.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so for example, in the case of uh Livox, we know from clinical studies that um it increases F-PRO, but this is also seen alongside improvements in uh bowel function and GI comfort.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've talked about okay, F-PRO, it's a major butyrate producer, and butyate is really important for keeping your gut cells healthy, but beyond that, it also helps with gut mortility, nerve signaling, gut hormones, and basically just helping to keep everything moving along.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that sort of tells us the whole story.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is so much more than my original introduction to um New Zealand gold kiwi fruit.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because all like my original thing was just use in in IBSC, constipation, to help people move more regularly.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: But now this is expanding so far beyond that.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us about like, do you think that we're entering a phase where we might be using targeted fibers rather than just bulk fiber for this um well, let's call it a targeted microbial modulation, if you like.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I think so.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um because if you look at traditional fibers like your psyllium or your traditional prebiotics are your inulin or fossil or gauze.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if we talk about fibers like psyllium, they they do have benefits in improving gut transit softening too, uh, but their effects are largely physical and they're not not all of them are fermentable.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas prebiotics, traditional prebiotics like inulin, force, and gauze, they are readily fermented, uh, but their effects tend to be broader, less selective across the microbiome.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, but with Livox, that's oh, and one other thing.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So these traditional fibers or prebiotics, they are often taken at much higher doses.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple of grams normally, but it can go up to 20 grams, for example.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and and what makes Livox different is that it appears to work at a much lower dose of 600 milligrams, and uh while conferring uh selective health benefits.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, and we've seen this in our clinicals.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had two clinicals in people with functional constipation as well as healthy individuals with occasional constipation, and uh Livox has actually been shown to increase F power by over 100% uh in some of these individuals.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's yeah, that's why we are so excited about this.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the other things, I guess, because you've got total control over the product from you know, seed to shelf, if you like, um, you can control things like contaminants, things like you know, um testing for pesticide residues and all of those sort of things.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas normally when we rely on even great foods, nothing against them, great foods like you know, a punnet of raspberries, great, great um dose of fibre um versus things like psyllium, fantastic dose of fibre.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: But you have you ever looked into the chemicals that they spray on raspberries?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's huge.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this is something that's actually quite exciting to me with regards to a targeted supplement like this, in that you grow it, you control everything in the line.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So in the case of Lee Box, we source our kiwifruit from uh zespir-approved orchards.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So uh we know that we are getting the best quality fruit to make our products.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I would imagine though, you know, the obvious tests for pesticide residues and things that would have to be done.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we we yes, and we would have ordered certifications and everything to back that up.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, you might get that from food.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: No way.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um Ping, can you tell us a little bit about how Livox differs in terms of you know fermentation profile, the tolerance that you might particularly expect in particularly in sensitive patients like our IBS?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if we look at traditional uh prebiotics like inulin, FOSS, and Gauss, these are quite simple chains of uh simple sugars.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um they feed a broad range of bacteria in your gut, and because of their simple uh structures, they are broken down quite quickly as soon as they reach the gut.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: So this is uh what we call the proximal uh colon.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And this uh rapid fermentation by bacteria is what drives that burst in fermentation that produces gas.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So things like hydrogen or carbon dioxide, and that causes things like bloating and gas that a lot of patients, especially a lot of individuals, especially those with IBS, might experience taking this kind of prebiotics.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, where lipox is different, it's the complex kiwifruit pectin that it contains.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, kiwifruit pectin contains, it consists of a core of galactaronic acid and it's decorated with many uh branches of uh sugars or metal or acetyl branches that must first be stripped away by bacteria before other bacteria can access the core.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, what happens is that this uh significantly slows down the fermentation process because you need a whole group, a whole consortium, what we call, uh of bacteria to break this um uh fiber, complex fiber down, and this slows the fermentation along the whole uh colon, and as a result, you get less gas production uh and also less um symptoms.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, one thing to note is that unlike inulin, fossil gauss, cuofruit pectin found in Livox, it's not uh it's low format.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that means IBS-sensitive patients uh are good to take them and uh it's suitable for all populations.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what about using um Livox alongside probiotics um to enhance the effectiveness of these other probiotics?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you can think of Livox uh as essentially doing two things.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, it helps to prepare the gut environment so that incoming good bacteria, your incoming probiotic strands, have a better chance of surviving and functioning effectively.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is again down to the kiwifruit pattern because it's slowly and progressively fermented, uh, it spreads the production of short-chain fatty acids all along the colon.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this could, this may help to lower the pH in the gut environment.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And these are all conditions that are more conducive to the growth of uh good bacteria.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: The second thing is again comes back to pectin, being a sustained food source, not just for F-PRO, but for a whole consortium of bacteria uh in the gut.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: And after they have broken down uh this complex Q fruit pectin, they produce metabolites that further support the wider microbial network.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So you know, microbes in the gut don't exist or operate in isolation, they uh feed off each other, they work together to break things down.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: So Livox essentially prepares the gut environment and it also provides food for the good bacteria.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, in fact, we've seen this in in vitro studies.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, in a study using the SHINE model, which is uh an in vitro gut simulator, we've seen that combining Livox with probiotics actually significantly increased uh butyrate production by up to 261%, as well as increased F-PR levels uh in the distal colon.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the furthest part of the colon from our small intestine.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: And this is compared to just taking or having the probiotics alone.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's uh how how well it works.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we also know from other um in vitro studies that we've done that doses as low as 25 milligrams of Levox have been shown to enhance the growth of beneficial probiotic strengths by up to 200%.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's yeah, that's why it's pretty impressive.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're really excited about.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see obviously that this would help patients with leaky gut because you're setting up the whole soothing of the whole terrain.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: But what about patients with, say, systemic inflammation or immune dysregulation?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I think this comes down to supporting the gut barrier function, which is really one of the main interfaces between the outside uh environment and our immune system.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: So uh what people often call leaky gut is increased intestinal permeability.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So things that shouldn't uh go into your circulation start going into your circulation because this uh tight junctions between the cells, the glue that's holding the cells together, become looser, less selective.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And when all these uh different compounds get into the system, it can lead to low-grade inflammation.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that is what uh can lead to systemic inflammation, it can lead to uh immune dysregulation.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where Livox again comes in because it increases FPR, and FPR uh is a major butyrate producer, so then it helps to support uh all these different functions like the gut barrier uh and even gut mortality and the overall gut environment.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So so I can really see that Livox um can be useful in areas outside of gut, like um, you know, let's say inflamed skin, atopic dermatitis, um, metabolic health.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking if there's any research on this, but have you ever heard of um Livox bringing back that immune regulation in such distal conditions as things like, I'm gonna put it out there, Hashimoto's thyroiditis.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever seen that gut balancing being that powerful that it can bring back the balance with the thyroid function?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not that condition in particular.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think what we have to note is that the research in this is still quite early when it comes to other um other indications.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I would say it's really promising just because of the Livox FPR buturate link, and we know from increasing research that buturate is involved not just in the gut, keeping the gut regular or healthy, but it's involved in all these different gut body accesses.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it can uh definitely uh has the potential to affect skin health.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hormonal regulation, metabolic health, immune regulation, all these sorts of different things.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: But not perhaps right now.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: We need to watch this space to see what happens.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be very interesting though to what indeed watch this space.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the things that really impresses me though is the low dose that's required to affect a response.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's really quite dramatic.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Particularly when you're considering fibers, and when you're considering the dose that patients need to take of these fibers, then you've got to think about compliance.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it just drops off dramatically.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: So something like this is so easy.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just amazing.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I think so, so really how you can think about this is I always like to use the the analogy of traditional prebiotics versus Leafox is kind of like comparing white bread, white rice versus brown rice and whole meal bread.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So through our proprietary processing method, instead of isolating a single compound, we are essentially just removing the water from good quality gold kiwi fruit, and we retain everything else that is naturally present in the fruit matrix.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: So these are things like, of course, the fiber, like the kiwi fruit pectin that I mentioned, but also the polyphenols, the vitamins and the minerals and all the other uh little compounds that you do you just don't find in those stripped back isolated ingredients.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we believe that is why we do see such an effect with Libbox, and that is also why we are a five-time neutral ingredient uh award winner.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's this complex matrix that contributes.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the next question is do you think we're moving away from a model where we prescribe um nutrients based on microbiome targets?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um sorry, not away, towards a model where we're looking at these keystone microbial species rather than just treating symptoms.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think as as uh sequencing technology becomes cheaper and more accessible, we are getting uh much better at understanding the uh the gut microbiome and what species and uh you know what species really matter and what functions, potential functions they may be playing in the in the body, in the gut.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there was actually this this uh paper that was recently published in Nature that looked at over um 30,000 individuals across the US and the UK, and they found that certain gut um microbes were consistently linked to certain cardiometabolic health markers.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really exciting because now that we know you know what what microbes uh actually matter, and if we increasingly understand the roles that they play, then we know which microbes to target.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: And once we know what to target, then we can start to think about okay, how can nutrition uh make a meaningful change or shift in these microbial uh populations?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, for example, we know that FPROM, really important and lower levels have been linked to conditions like IBS, IBD, um, and a whole host of other uh conditions.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you target that?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So Livox is uh one of the only uh prebiotics that we know of that consistently has been shown to increase F-PAO and increase it um by 100%.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Significantly.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely significantly.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so last question for you, Ping, and that is if a practitioner isn't currently using Livox, what would you say is one clinical condition where it could, where utilizing it could completely change their outcome?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: What would it be?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: What would be your call out?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: From a research perspective, the the clearest starting point would be someone who likely has lower levels of FPA.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's where the evidence for LibOX is strongest.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in particular, people with constipation or you know, functional constipation or occasional constipation, because that's what we have seen through our clinical studies.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but beyond constipation, you can also think about there are other signals.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so lower FPA may be associated with things like lower fiber intake, people under stress or inflammatory states, or people who are taking antibiotics.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I wouldn't say it's a particular condition, but really uh indications where you think that the gut environment is compromised and you want to support that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so Livox would be a really, really good solution.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And certainly if patients and certainly where practitioners are utilizing microbial testing and they're seeing low levels of FPR, then that would be the signal really to use Livox.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: That would be the thing.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um can I ask, over what time period would you see, expect to see a difference?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: So do we, you know, let's say we do a baseline, day zero, um, and then you instigate using LivOx.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Would you do a retest at say, you know, one month, or would you wait three months to do that retest to have significant improvement?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so our clinicals, we've always tested at uh one month.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that's quite fast.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So the effects.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So the good thing about the gut microbiome is that it responds to dietary intervention very quickly.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we we believe that the changes can occur earlier, but we just don't have the data to support that yet.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but what we've seen from the clinicals is 28 days and we've seen increase.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's a doubling.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's quite significant in one month.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's pretty significant.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting stuff.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ping, thank you for taking us through Livox today.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it I can see this being opening up, certainly from where I used to think it was only IBS constipation.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now there's just a whole gamut of conditions where we can see this opening up.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you so much.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is so interesting to use such a simple, one would think is a very simple fiber um supplement, but it can open up so many different outcomes.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's extremely um interesting.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I I guess that's why we are so excited about it and we are you know excited to to tell the world about it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Keep doing that research.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm loving it.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's fantastic stuff you're doing, Pink.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, everyone, for joining us today.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, you can catch up on all of the other podcasts and today's podcast on the Designs for Health website.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to be putting up as much research as we can, and certainly that nature um paper.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely want that up there as well.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be lovely, Pink.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us today.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Andrew with Phil Cook.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is Wellness by Designs.