Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / The Elevator Industry Needs Inspectors: Interview with the Director of NAESA | Emerald Kuhns

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The Elevator Industry Needs Inspectors: Interview with the Director of NAESA | Emerald Kuhns · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, safety is my big thing.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just be safe out there.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's a scary industry, and in a matter of a drop of a hat, something can happen.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: So always be cautious of what you're doing and know your surroundings and be safe.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Today our guest is Emerald Kuhnz, Executive Director of NASA International.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: Emerald joined NASA after working in sales leadership, and she has never looked back.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: After eight years administering the QEI certification program, Emerald was promoted to Assistant Executive Director, and in 2023 she became the Executive Director.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Emerald loves the fact that the elevator industry is one big family.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: She is passionate about safety and wants each and every person to be safe and return home at the end of the day.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Emerald, welcome to the show.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be able to talk to you again today and obviously understand a little bit more about your career, your your position.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I wanted to ask you some questions about NASA just to better understand, you know, how that uh impacts and fits into the vertical transportation industry.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um I guess first question, tell me a little bit about your background prior to getting into the elevator industry.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um prior to getting to the elevator industry, I was in sales and um just happened to stumble on this job position, um, not my current one, but with NASA.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the uh past executive director, her husband worked for me and said that his wife was hiring.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how I got into this career.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: I knew nothing about elevators.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I knew how to how to ride one, and that was about it.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Did you were you looking for another job at the time?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or or what kind of tipped him off to um I was kind of looking for another one.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um I knew where I was at was not my forever career that I wanted.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it was looking, but not steady looking.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: What um what what job did you first come into?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I uh because you're the executive director now, but you probably didn't step right into that role or or did you?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nope.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so when I first came in, I was um handled all the QEI certification applications.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I did that for a few years.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I was promoted to do that, and also the assistant executive director.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then in October of 2023, I um was promoted to executive director.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so fairly so you did the other job for 12, 13 years, something like that.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I I've been with NASA almost 14 years, July will be 14 years.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did the other one probably eight years, and then I switched into the assistant executive director position.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you think from your previous career most prepared you for this industry?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in my previous career, I did a lot of customer service stuff.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it was easy coming into this one, having that background of working with individuals um and having to deal with any aspect that would happen.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it it was easier to come in without having if I would have been, I don't know, grocery store cart pusher, it would have been different because I didn't have that interaction and contracts and stuff like that.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: So that made it easier coming into this position.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um tell me a little bit about NASA itself.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: How did it get started and and what's some of the history there?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so NASA was um we're incorporated in Arizona.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it started in Arizona.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was a bunch of uh AHJs, authorities having jurisdiction sitting around a table, and that's kind of how it started.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um they had their first full meeting in 1971, and it's just kind of gone after that, it's just kind of branched off and continued to grow.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what was it so before NASA, what what was what was the problem they were looking at?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: What were they saying, see, I guess the the gap they were trying to fill and and and what kind of stirred that conversation, do you think um I'm not exactly sure what they were trying to fill, but I know it was a lot of the state chiefs and everything getting together, wanting some kind of formality and something that they could all go off of so that they could enforce stuff.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which makes a lot of sense.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we've talked about QEIs, give us some kind of certification to so that so that we know if if this person has the ability, you know, let alone a credential to actually show up and and inspect the elevator and tell us whether it is or is not safe, whether it should or should not be shut down.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess that's probably a pretty big gap that they were looking at.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know who was doing that before.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously you weren't around to know how that even happening.
• 5:15
  unknown: No.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it and it was a gap that uh I'm sure needed to be filled because we need to make sure that we're safe out there, that what our writing public is on is safe.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and you're still filling it today, right?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's correct.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've got plenty of work to do.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what what's the primary mission uh of NASA?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: What what is it that you're and here's our statement?
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So we certify and educate elevator inspectors.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, safety is our number one concern.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: We want everybody to be safe out there.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so we certify and educate them.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: We hold probably 75 classes a year throughout the United States, Canada, so that they get that education, they understand the current codes.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, most jurisdictions are not on the current ones, but we have that in the history and archive that they can listen to that stuff if they need to, but just keeping everybody safe out there.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: So somebody mentioned to me the other day, which I honestly I just hadn't thought that much about it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't worked a lot with inspectors, but they said something like, um, you know, this is third party and this is, you know, kind of the state runs it.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: How do you have an idea how many states actually kind of control that inspection versus those that are like, well, you know, any third party can show up and do it?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know the exact number.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do know that it's different from every state.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's some states that don't require QEI, there's some that do, some are third party, some are not, but without I could probably look up the data, but I don't know off the top of my head.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So is it primarily states or are there certain cities that are like, no, if you're gonna, you know, that they they want to have some say in in whose uh you have some cities that have many jurisdictions in them.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think of like um Florida, they have like Miami Dade, Miami Beach, um the state.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: So some states have many jurisdictions in them, and they each have their own rules that you have to follow when you were in that area.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Do do inspections have to happen annually, or is that really just depend on the the jurisdiction and and what they're depends on the jurisdiction.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: So and this is just my ignorance, but I guess some some it may be annual, some may say every what five, ten years, or I mean every five, yeah.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: Every five years, interesting.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and you mentioned that uh inspectors um are are who you're educating, you're certifying.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm just curious, how often do you see uh somebody come from completely outside the industry?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, maybe they have related industry or in you know, experience, but but say, hey, I want to be an elevator inspector.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um you're starting to see it more and more.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um you'll have uh companies that'll bring on somebody as an apprentice for a year and get them their training.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: We actually just launched um inspector training program where you have no knowledge.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can just come into this program, you have to have a mentor who's from the industry, um, but you can come in from your local Starbucks and have no elevator knowledge at all.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we will teach you through that whole year-long class what you need to know alongside your mentor, and your mentor will have you out there for you know, witnessing these inspections and learning all these tools.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there before we launch this program, there is a lot of people that just come in and they, you know, reach out to the majors or another a state, and that's how they get their training, and then eventually come QEI certified.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's fascinating.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you say they reach out to the majors, do they like pay them to be their kind of their mentor?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or I guess it depends, right?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it depends.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Some companies I know that they will hire you on as their apprentice and they pay you.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's half the rate.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know exactly what they pay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's some individuals that, you know, it's a family business and the nephew wants to learn, so they just go and shadow that individual and get all their documentation and do that for a year.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I would assume if it's family, they're not probably paying them.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing them after hours or on the weekends and stuff, but it varies from so it's more about do you have the knowledge, do you have the experience, the exposure to to actually do a proper inspection and and can you pass the certification to to prove it, essentially?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, before you even sit down to take the exam, you have to show that you have that documentation that you've been out there.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we don't want somebody out there just come off the road and go in.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: You have no idea what you're looking at.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they have to show that documentation to us.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: How how much time does someone need to to actually qualify for that?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have to see documentation that you've either been performing or witness in inspections for at least one year.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I um I have a uh cousin, I guess.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, cousin's son or something.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, he uh he had actually expressed interest at one point.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I it kind of scratched my head a little bit because I'm like, well, I don't, I mean, I know he did some drafting work and solar systems and you know, but I like solar panels, I guess, is what he was working on.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, I didn't I didn't really know that was even a a possibility, but it sounds like it it really is, and especially with this new course that you've you've launched.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there who knows, there may be other courses out there as well, uh, or other companies that are kind of offering that training.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what what would you say is your biggest challenge as the executive director?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I think just me personally wanting to reach out and be able to interact with all of the individuals.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we have a little over 3,000 inspectors, and if I could just be able to reach out to each one of them and have a conversation, um, make sure they're okay, make sure they don't need anything from us.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do reach a lot of them just through the travel and the workshops and the classes, but just to reach out and, you know, make sure they know we're here for them and that it's about safety.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: We have to make sure that when you leave in the morning, you get back home that night to say see your children, your wife, your husband.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you told me that that I mean you've got inspectors like all over the world or you know, multiple countries.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just the US, but um correct.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: We have um United States, Canada, Korea, Guam, the Bahamas, a little bit of everywhere.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and yeah, I'm sure in certain countries, you know, maybe maybe they don't have certifications, or maybe, you know, maybe they use something different, but but obviously this is becoming certainly a world standard of uh of inspection um you know know-how.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So uh and you would you had mentioned uh in previous conversations just that it as I recall, it seems like there's a uh maybe even a shortage that there's more inspectors needed, and and that's probably why you you know created that program.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um how how big of a need is it?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any way to quantify that?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there's a need, but yeah, to quantify it, I don't know.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just from the employment opportunities we see that we post, there's definitely a need.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And um, this industry is an older industry, so we need to start bringing in younger ones and um getting them in and getting them the knowledge they need so that the older ones can retire and enjoy life.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I sit on ASME code committees and I see it there.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's an older industry, and there's not a lot of younger ones coming up to learn that code and have all the knowledge that um the older ones have.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna have a big gap there of that knowledge that is not there.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it's makes a lot of sense that that yes, there's a a need and a gap now, but it's probably gonna get even worse as more of these baby boomers retire and and just are no longer working, you know.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, are we bringing it up up enough to to really fill that gap?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: So and hopefully, like so with us launching this program, we're hoping that that helps.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna be able to fulfill that whole gap, but if that, you know, gives us a hundred more inspectors a year, it's a hundred more than what we had to begin with.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's and it sounds like a great program.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a way to, you know, m open up the opportunities for more people that would have interest and and maybe they, like you say, aren't working for one of the elevator companies, but but would love to to get in there and get in, yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: Or to participate.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um this is a little off the the track.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious, what are some of the challenges of being a female in a male-dominated industry?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been asked that a lot.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: When I first came in, it was very intimidating, scary.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it it's getting better over time.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're you're seeing more and more women in this industry.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have our own um group.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's women in the motion, um, where I attend those meetings.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, it was hard.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard, and it still is.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's it's it's getting easier and easier as there's more and more of us coming in, and that's great.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I talked to a lady recently who joined, you know, whatever, 15, 20 years ago, and and she said that there was uh one particular woman who you know had was kind of like at executive level or you know, had been there a while and was able to just reach out and and just kind of build that that network.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm sure that you you see that you participate in that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I'm sure that helps.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: We still we stick together.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: We all stick together and bounce our ideas off each other and um yeah.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's awesome.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: What what have you come to love the most about this industry?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that it's family, even though I don't see them every day, I don't talk to them every day.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you do, you it's family.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody is so welcoming and supportive.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a question, I can call somebody that I haven't talked to in six months and they will you know sit down and talk with me.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's a very family yeah.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's the most I guess I guess the most important or the biggest thing you've learned in the last 14 years?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, from the the elevator side of it is the safety part.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I not being from the industry, I never realized the things that could happen on an elevator escalator.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the safety part of it is something that was just wow.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um other than that, um it just the the daily functions of everything was something that I've learned and didn't know that they existed and kept going, you know.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you've you've stuck around the 14 years.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever been tempted to go back to sales or sales leadership?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely not.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is my forever career where I will retire.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I will tell you, when a lot of individuals, when they retire out of this career, they just can't seem to retire.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: They still are dabbled in it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I at this point in my life, I could say that when I retire, I'm gonna retire and enjoy life.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So um, no, I wouldn't change it.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love my career.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: What uh what is one message you would like to share with the stakeholders in the in the industry, be uh, you know, company owners or or executives or or mechanics or you know, anybody that's involved in this industry.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um just to be safe.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Be safe out there.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I want to see each and every one of these individuals um go home to their families.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um safety is my big thing.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just be safe out there.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a scary industry, and in a matter of a drop of a hat, something can happen.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So always be cautious of what you're doing and know your surroundings and be safe.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Great, great.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Emerald, thank you so much for your your time today.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a lot of fun interviewing you.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate I appreciate it very much, and I wish you the best as you continue to build your career and and also invite you to stay safe.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.