Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Two young beauties, ages 17 and 21, found in shallow graves wearing only 1 sock. Is there a serial killer at work?

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Two young beauties, ages 17 and 21, found in shallow graves wearing only 1 sock. Is there a serial killer at work? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: A cloth as a gag, her eyes sealed shut with
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: band aids, zip ties around her legs. Twenty one year
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: old Julia Woodward found in a shallow grave and Hungry
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Valley about fifteen miles from Reno. What happened to Julia Woodward?
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace investing ears with the Washoe
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office in Reno found a body in a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: shallow grave. It was twenty year old Julia Woodward. Her
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: body found in Hungry Valley, about fifteen miles north of Reno.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Investigators say her eyes were sealed shut with band aids.
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  Speaker 1: They found zip ties on her legs, a cloth used
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  Speaker 1: as a gag, and rocks covered in hair and blood.
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  Speaker 1: She was only wearing one shoot. What happened to Julia Woodward?
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  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This as Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: being with us, with me an all star panel to
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  Speaker 1: make sense of it all. Ashley Wilcot judge, trial lawyer,
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  Speaker 1: anchor Chord TV. You can find her Ashley Wilcot dot com.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: James shell Nutt twenty seven years Atlanta Metro major case
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  Speaker 1: swat officer, now a lawyer, renowned psycho analysts joining us
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  Speaker 1: from LA doctor Bethany Marshall at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com.
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  Speaker 1: The medical examiner for the entire state of Florida, doctor
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  Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher, and he's joining me right now straight out
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: to investigative reporter with heavy dot com, Jennifer at Sikowski. Jennifer,
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  Speaker 1: please describe for me again the way that this girl's
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  Speaker 1: body was found. Twenty one year old Julia Woodward. If
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  Speaker 1: you could see her, she's just loose, scrubbed in sunshine.
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  Speaker 1: You can tell our parents spent a lot of money
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  Speaker 1: on braces for her, wearing her hair in the style
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  Speaker 1: of the day, kind of like fear of fawcet. Beautiful smile,
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  Speaker 1: perfect nose, beautiful eyes. Who would kill this girl? Jennifer
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  Speaker 1: Zigowski tell me about the discovery of her body. Oh? Yes,
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  Speaker 1: Julia Woodward was absolutely gorgeous. She was also described as
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: being a very sweet girl who loved her family. She
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  Speaker 1: held a promising future, and she had been living in
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  Speaker 1: San Rafael, California with her mother and father. Julia's parents
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  Speaker 1: told detectives at the time that she was traveling to
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  Speaker 1: the Lake Tahoe at the Reno area and finding a
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  Speaker 1: job on a friend roll her to the airport and
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  Speaker 1: she was never seen again. Weeks later, her mom reported
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  Speaker 1: her as a missing which she couldn't get in touch
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  Speaker 1: with her and the last time mom fled. Just a moment,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Zigawski, Jennifer, hold on, just a moment. You told
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  Speaker 1: me she was traveling from A to B to get
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  Speaker 1: a job, look for a job. She's twenty one years old,
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  Speaker 1: just out of school, Jennifer. From where and to where
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  Speaker 1: was she traveling? She was traveling from San Rafael, California,
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  Speaker 1: her hometown, to Reno, Nevada. She was driven to the
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  Speaker 1: San Francisco airport by a friend to catch her flight,
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  Speaker 1: and that's when she was never seen again. Her mom
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  Speaker 1: reported her as missing when she couldn't get in touch.
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  Speaker 1: This girl, Julia Woodward, disappears almost immediately after we believe
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  Speaker 1: touching down in Reno. She goes there, and not long
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  Speaker 1: after her body found in a shallow grave in a
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  Speaker 1: desert near Lemon Valley. To doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner
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  Speaker 1: for the State of Florida, Loo, can you tell me
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  Speaker 1: about her cause of death? I mean, this case goes
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  Speaker 1: down decades ago. It's when she goes missing. This is
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  Speaker 1: a forty years ago. How can you determine cod cause
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  Speaker 1: of death forty years later? Or the cause of death
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  Speaker 1: can be determined by the condition of the skeletal remains.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: In most cases, if there are skull fractures that are
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  Speaker 1: caused by a blunt blunt impact, or if there are
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  Speaker 1: gunshot wounds that go through the bones of these are
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  Speaker 1: very well preserved pieces of evidence that can lead us
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  Speaker 1: to a very accurate cause of death. Now, what we
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  Speaker 1: believe right now is that this young girl's head had
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  Speaker 1: been bashed in with a rock, her eyes sealed shut
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  Speaker 1: with a band aids, her legs bound with zip ties,
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  Speaker 1: her mouth gagged with a cloth, and we are learning
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  Speaker 1: that from sources at k n xv TV. I want
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  Speaker 1: to go to you, to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. Doctor Bethany,
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  Speaker 1: My big question is the scene Julie as a murder
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  Speaker 1: was a brutal but what does it reveal about her killer? Well,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: one of the things I wondered was were the band
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  Speaker 1: aids put on her eyes before he accosted and assaulted
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  Speaker 1: her or were they put on afterwards? Because that tells
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  Speaker 1: us a lot. If they were placed on her eyes before,
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  Speaker 1: it would mean that he didn't want to be seen,
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  Speaker 1: so he would not want to be idd if they
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  Speaker 1: were placed afterwards. It was an attempt to preserve the
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  Speaker 1: corpse in some manner, prepare her for burial. Apparently there
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was another crime where he was unsuccessful in assaulting and
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  Speaker 1: murdering a young woman, but she instructed her to not
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  Speaker 1: look at him, that if she looked at him, he
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: would bash her head with a rock, So apparently this
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  Speaker 1: was already part of his mo You know, with serial killers, Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: they have a particular style, a fetishized style of assaulting
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  Speaker 1: and killing the victim, and it tends to be the
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  Speaker 1: same every single time. So if I was interviewing this man,
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  Speaker 1: I would want to know what's the significance of bashing
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  Speaker 1: the person's heads of rock it? Is it just to
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  Speaker 1: kill them? Or is there some statistic pleasure? Is there
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  Speaker 1: some sexual pleasure and afflicting harm? What about the band aids?
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  Speaker 1: Is do you want to assault her while she can't
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  Speaker 1: look at you? You know? What about the zip ties?
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  Speaker 1: Do you you don't want her to get away? Or
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  Speaker 1: do you like the fact that someone's immobile? Why you're
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  Speaker 1: sexually assault them? These would be very important questions. In
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  Speaker 1: a forensic interview, What if anything, will potential DNA show
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  Speaker 1: in the case. Authorities say DNA evidence found on Woodward's
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  Speaker 1: clothing led to Sullivan, who was convicted of a two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and seven attack of sexual nature in Nevada County.
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  Speaker 1: It's a fine that Sheriff Balum attributes to newer DNA technology.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Six years ago we started our coldcase unit because we
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: know what technology and those advances that we've had, those
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  Speaker 1: breakthroughs and these new developments give Julia's mother hope for
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  Speaker 1: finding justice for her daughter, and has words of encouragement
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  Speaker 1: for other parents seeking answer. It's possible, you know, with
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  Speaker 1: the technology. They haven't know, and if they're frustrated, they
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  Speaker 1: should write to you know, keep in touch with the
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  Speaker 1: law enforcement and whatever county they're in. But no matter
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  Speaker 1: what form of justice Julia's family may get from a
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  Speaker 1: possible conviction, she says she'll never forget there's no closure.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like I missed Julia every single day,
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  Speaker 1: every hour or every day, you know, I think about
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  Speaker 1: her all the time, all the forty years I've been
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  Speaker 1: thinking about her, and I'm thinking about her still. Oh
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  Speaker 1: the suffering this mother has gone through for forty years.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: You're hearing Brian Hoffman from KATV in two news speaking
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  Speaker 1: to Julia's mother, to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for
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  Speaker 1: the state of Florida. How after all these years can
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you get DNA from a corpse. Well, that's a very
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: good question. There's a lot of places that the DNA
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  Speaker 1: will degrade over time, but there are a few places
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  Speaker 1: that wouldn't. For instance, if you look at the inside
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: portion of the tooth, the pulp of the tooth, the
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  Speaker 1: soft tissue of that can be extracted for DNA and
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  Speaker 1: it's very well preserved. Even some of the longer bones,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the bone marrow itself, the DNA is still
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  Speaker 1: preserved inside of that because it is protected from the
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  Speaker 1: elements by and hardened calcified a shell around it. You know,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: is this guy a serial killer? We don't know, But
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: take a listen to what we've learned from k n
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  Speaker 1: x V ABC fifteen. Nicole Valdez. Prosecutors call her AE.
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  Speaker 1: She may be one of the only women who escaped.
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  Speaker 1: It was September of two thousand and seven. She was
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  Speaker 1: in Utah hitchhiking to California, just like Julia Woodward. According
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  Speaker 1: to investigators, she made it to Nevada County, about forty
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  Speaker 1: five minutes from Reno, and hopped in with another man,
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  Speaker 1: Charles Gary Sullivan. He pulled off into a remote area
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  Speaker 1: in the Tahoe National Forest and, according to prosecutors, pulled
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a gun on her and told her to lay on
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  Speaker 1: her stomach. He used zip ties and handcuffs on her
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  Speaker 1: wrists and ankles. Then the twenty five year old asked
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  Speaker 1: what he had planned, and his response was the only
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  Speaker 1: thing that's going to be involved is sex, and we're
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  Speaker 1: just going to be out here for a few days
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  Speaker 1: having some fun. She had a pocket knife, though, and
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  Speaker 1: when he wasn't looking, cut off the zip ties and
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: ran crime stories with Nancy Grace. Prosecutors called her a
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  Speaker 1: she may be one of the only women who escaped.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: It was September of two thousand and seven. She was
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in Utah hitchhiking to California, just like Julia Woodward. According
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: to investigators, she made it to Nevada County, about forty
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  Speaker 1: five minutes from Reno, and hopped in with another man,
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  Speaker 1: Charles Gary Sullivan. He pulled off into a remote area
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  Speaker 1: in the Tahoe National Forest, and, according to prosecutors pulled
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: a gun on her and told her to lay on
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: her stomach. He used zip ties and handcuffs on her
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: wrists and ankles. Then the twenty five year old asked
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  Speaker 1: what he had planned, and his response was the only
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: thing that's going to be involved is sex, and we're
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: just going to be out here for a few days
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: having some fun. She had a pocket knife, though, and
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  Speaker 1: when he wasn't looking, cut off the zip ties and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: ran back to Jennifer Zikowski investigative reporter heavy dot com.
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  Speaker 1: So that two thousand and seven victim, who we will
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  Speaker 1: call A to protect her identity, managed to get away.
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  Speaker 1: When the perp wasn't looking, she used a pocket knife
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  Speaker 1: to cut the zip ties he had placed around her
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  Speaker 1: ankles and wrists and make a run for it. She
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  Speaker 1: managed to escape. She lived to the tail. Was he
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  Speaker 1: convicted in the two thousand and seven case. He was,
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  Speaker 1: And it's important to note too, when she did run,
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  Speaker 1: she came across two men in ATVs who came to
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  Speaker 1: her rescue. I think that's so important to the remote
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  Speaker 1: area and thank god for those two men. So, according
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to a two thousand and eight report by the sierraf
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  Speaker 1: thoughts Sullivan was originally charged with kidnapping with a firearm,
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  Speaker 1: kidnapping with the intent to commit rape with a firearms,
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  Speaker 1: and criminal threats with a firearm. If he had been
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  Speaker 1: convicted of those charges, he would have based life in prison. However,
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  Speaker 1: he was instead convicted of lesser charges, including making criminal
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  Speaker 1: threats in false imprisonment. The reason behind that it was
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: reported that jurors didn't see enough credible evidence for the
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  Speaker 1: charges of Sullivan both having a gun and kidnapping. The
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  Speaker 1: kidnapping part likely in my opinion, because the woman was hitchhiking.
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  Speaker 1: He received three years and eight months for the crime,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: which was the maximum sentence allotted. Hold on just a
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: moment to Astley Willcott, judge and trial lawyer, I guess
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  Speaker 1: a jury didn't hear the judge read the charge of
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  Speaker 1: the law to them, or the prosecutor didn't explain it
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  Speaker 1: well enough, or maybe you know, they just are idiots,
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  Speaker 1: because kidnapping doesn't require a long space as a long distance.
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  Speaker 1: If I were to grab Jackie Howard at gunpoint he's
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  Speaker 1: sitting right here with me in the studio and force
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  Speaker 1: her into the next room three feet, that would be kidnapping.
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  Speaker 1: The distance or the as it's called under the law,
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  Speaker 1: asportation is irrelevant. Absolutely, it is irrelevant. So part of
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the issue we run in with juries, You know, juries
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: are very sophisticated in my opinion. However, they can only
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  Speaker 1: base their decisions based on what you just said, which
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  Speaker 1: is how well is it explained by the prosecution, how
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  Speaker 1: well is it reiterated, and the jury instructions that tell
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  Speaker 1: them exactly what the law is. And frequently if those
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  Speaker 1: jury instructions you know this, Nancy, if you do not
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  Speaker 1: ensure that those jury instructions are right on and the
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  Speaker 1: law is very clear and easy for them to understand,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: and or if as a prosecutor you do not spoon
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  Speaker 1: feed them to say this is all it has to be,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: then they may not understand what you just said that
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: is kidnapping. There's no condition of this is how far
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  Speaker 1: you have to take someone in order for it to
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: be a kidnapping. Well, to me, to doctor Bethany Marshall's
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: psychoanleist joining us out of la sounds to me that
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  Speaker 1: they were holding a grudge against the female victim who
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  Speaker 1: was hitchhiking there. From what Jennifer Zakowski from heavy dot
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  Speaker 1: Com is saying they seem to think because she was hitchhiking,
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  Speaker 1: taking her and out in a desert and raping her,
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  Speaker 1: that that wasn't a kidnapping. You think she wanted to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: go out to the desert with this freak and nancy. Remember,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: people who hitchhike often hitchhike because they have no money.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: So maybe she wasn't dressed well in court, maybe she
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: didn't present well. You know, juries and judges both can
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: be what we call either offender identified or victim identified.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: No matter what position and the law you're in, even
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: if you're just serving in a jury, you might have
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: an act to grind against as to grind against victims.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Perhaps you were a victim yourself, or you victimize somebody
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: else at some point in your life and you bring
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: various meanings to it, or you perpetrated against somebody like
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I just said, and you can't forgive yourself for it,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: so you're going to let this other perpetrator off the hook.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So I think juries really can be wild cards for
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: so many different reasons. Well, oh right, acting right. So
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: something that I also found interesting was that Sullivan actually
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: tried convincing the jurors that the victim wanted to be
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: ZiT tied. That was another reason that kind of boggles
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: my mind while that he got away with the kidnapping
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: and gun charges. In fact, when he had taken her,
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: you know, promised her this ride to where she needed
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: to go, which was home from her aunt's funeral, m
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: he led her into a remote area where he promised
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: her there would be secret veins of her poise that
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: she could make money off of. So again, that just
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: kind of shocked me when I read that the judge
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: even beside he said, the jury didn't buy your story,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and I didn't buy it, the suggestion that she wanted
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: to be zip tied to buy his through Creduel piece.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised the jury didn't buy You know what,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: I'm not surprised either, Jennifer, But I'm angry. I'm angry
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: that the jury didn't get him on kidnapping because if
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: they hadn't gotten him on kidnapping, he may have been
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: behind bars for another twenty years. And you know what,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I want to go to James Shellnutt. You've been in
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the business along with me, You've been at twenty seven years.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Major case. Does it never end? The blaming the victim
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: like after her aunt's at funeral, she wanted to go
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: out into the rugged terrain, get zip tide, face down
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: on the dirt and raped. I mean, what is wrong
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: with that jury? I don't know that. I mean it
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: angers me that this was done to this lady and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: she's victimized. They look at her like she has somehow
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: done something wrong when she nearly lost her life. She's
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: been permanently traumatized by this. It is outrageous that this
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: is the result that occurred in that case. I'm just
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: so mad. I could she would nail in half. Let
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: me go to doctor Tim Gallagher, Medical Examiner's State of Florida.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So question to you, could you just explain something to
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: me about sperm? Yes, I know where it comes from,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: but I recall telling juries that at least after seventy
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: two hours three days, by the end, for sure, the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: sperm had quote broken down degenerated. The tail comes off first,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: the head comes off next, and the sperm starts to degenerate.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Now this is a yes, no doctor, is that much true? Yes,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: it is okay, Thank goodness, I was right when I
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: told that to the juries. So how long can the
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: sperm be in or on the body and it be
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: found by a rape kit, nurse or doctor and preserved
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: and DNA extracted. How long can it survive? Well, the
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: first thing to know is that, yes, after three days,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the sperm itself begins to degrade. Like you said before,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: the head comes off, the tail comes off, and it
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: stops becoming mobile. That's the organism itself, or that's the
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: sperm itself. But the DNA within the sperm maintains itself,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: for it can maintain itself indefinitely under the right set
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of conditions. So it's the DNA that they check for
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: in the sperm, and the sperm DNA is different than
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: any other DNA that you will find in the body,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: so that sperm DNA itself can be preserved under the
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: right conditions for years and years indefinitely an innocent some case, Well,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: how is sperm DNA different from other DNA. The DNA
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: in the body is known as double stranded or double
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: helix DNA. The DNA in the sperm is just a
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: single strand of DNA because the offspring is a combination
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of the DNA of the father and a DNA of
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the mother, So the mother contributes one half of the DNA,
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the father contributes the other half of the DNA, and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: together they form the double helix in the embryo. So
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the so a part of the DNA, which is one strand,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: is contributed by the father, the other part of the DNA,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: which is the other strand, and the complementary strand is
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: contributed by the mother, and then together that forms the embryo.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So the DNA in the sperm is just one strand
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: as opposed to two strands of DNA in the rest
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: of the body. And one follow up question, doctor Tim Gallagher,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: when you say sperm, which is double stranded or double
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: helix DNA is different from all other DNA found in
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the body. What other DNA found in the body? You
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: mean like blood or tissue. Right, there's DNA in every
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: cell of the body that has a nucleus in it,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: for instance, your skin cells, or the cells that make
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: up your organs such as your liver, your pancreas, the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: DNA that's in your hair roots, you know, are different
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: than sperm DNA. So a good DNA technologist can differentiate
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: exactly what part of the body that DNA was taken from. Wow.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: So so it's a double strand or double helix, single strand?
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Would you say single helix or well, right, yeah, it
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: takes it takes two strands to make the psychic leg.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: If you think of a spiral staircase, the banister you know,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: on a spiral staircase, that would be an example of
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a double helix. But if you could think about a
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: single strand, which wuld be just one of those banisters,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: you know, and half of the spiral staircase, that would
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: because you don't have a helix parent, right, you won't
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: have a helix, just have a kind of a wavy
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: d thing, so it's just single strand. Okay. Well, speaking
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of the DNA left behind on that two thousand and
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: seven hitchhiker that the jury almost totally screwed over, one
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: good thing came out of that. Take a little Star
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Friends at Colo TV ed Pierce Sullivan was charged with
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the kidnapping an attempted rape of a hitchhiker he picked
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: up in the High Sierra at the intersection of I
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: eighty and Highway twenty. Devada County authorities say he took
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the young woman to a remote spot near Bowman Lake,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: produced a gun, handcuffter bound her ankles with tie wraps
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and told her he'd let her go after a few
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: days of sex. When he returned to his van, she
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: got loose, found her way to do some campers and freedom.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: The jury couldn't agree on the more serious charges, but
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: convicted him instead of false imprisonment. He received a sentence
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: of less than four years and was eventually paroled to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: southern California. Grand jury testimony reveals that DNA taken from
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: him during that investigation was used nearly a decade later
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: to link him to Julia Woodward's murder. Now at the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: time of the two thousand and seven about a County case,
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: an investigator said that victim was extremely lucky to have
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: escaped and be alive. The victim herself was quoted as
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: saying she feared this was not the first time it
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: is committing this kind of crime, adding only the difference
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: being I got away and he got caught, you know,
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: to Jennifer Skasky, investigator reporter heavy dot com, is there
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: another body? On October twenty seventh of nineteen seventy eight,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: another beautiful young woman, seventeen year old Jennie Smith, was
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: seen leaving the circus Circus Hotel and Casino, which is
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: also in Reno, Nevada, where she worked as a waitress.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: She did not work that day though, and she had
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: been meeting up with friends. Later that night, she was
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: leaving with a man who friends said was referred to
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: as Chuck, and the friends also said she may have
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: been planning by cocaine from this Chuck. Jennie was never
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: seen again. According to a nineteen seventy nine article from
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: the Reno Gazette, the woman's just parent's case had been
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: closed by investigators on September seventeenth, nineteen seventy nine, because
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: her parents had moved out of state, But then just
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: days later, on November second, nineteen seventy nine, only about
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: eight months after Julia Woodward's body was discovered, the body
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: of Jennie Smith was found less than a mile away
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: from where Julia's body was found in Michelle. In the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: same articles from nineteen seventy nine, it's revealed that woodwards
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: remains were identified by authorities just two days prior to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Genie Smith's remains also being identified. Take a listen to this.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: But the nobail motion also cites two other unsolved cases.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: One has long been linked to Woodward's murder by obvious circumstance.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Seventeen year old Genie Smith was last seen in downtown
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: Reno in nineteen seventy eight. Her remains were found a
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: year later, not far from where Woodward's body was found,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: in the same remote area of Hungry Valley. According to
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: the state's motion, Sullivan was a person of interest in
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the investigation of Smith's death, but fled the state soon after,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: not because of that case, but as Reno police began
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: to question him about the disappearance of yet another woman,
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Linda Taylor, who disappeared during the same time period. Sullivan
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: initially said he didn't no Taylor, but later admitted he
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: had been on a date with her. Her body was
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: never found. The conclusion of the state's argument, all evidence
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: points to the defendant being a serial killer responsible for
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Julia woodwards murder and other time stories with Nancy Grace
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: to Jennifer Zahousky heavy dot com, who's Linda Taylor? Linda Taylor,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: She's a twenty three year old another yell, another young
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: woman who went missing from Reno, Nevada. Authorities had asked
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: for the public's assistance in identifying a man who was
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: last seen with Linda at a bank that was only
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a I'm sorry, only a couple of days before she
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: went missing. A kid then led detectives you know you've
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: got it to Charles Garry Sullivan and like it was
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: just announced that he initially denied knowing her or having
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: any involvement with her, but later confessed to have been
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: caught on a date with her. Her car was discovered
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: nine days after she was reported in the scene at
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: a grocery store and the Springhill brings chills. The vehicle
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: was only about ten miles away from where the remains
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of Julia Woodward and Jeannie Smith were found. When police
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: went to interview two of sullivan text girlfriends regarding the case,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: they reportedly refused to talk and both moved away, one
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to Arizona because she said her mother was dying, and
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: the other to California who claimed her father was on
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: its dot fund. Which is a little strange that each
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: of these women women had such similar stories to tell
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: detectives and her body I'm sorry has never been found. Well,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: you know what to Ashley Willcott, judge and trial lawyer Ashley,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: when a guy like Charles Gary Sullivan says he took
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: this missing girl, Linda Taylor on a date. What does
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: that date say to you? Yeah, a date, my fanny.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I just think that what it means is you have
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: to look closer, and it's a huge red flag because
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make good sense. It doesn't sound like that's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: likely what happened. And a date quote unquote probably means
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: he did something against her. Will you know to you,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Zikowski, we know police are now investigating Sullivan for
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the murder of seventeen year old Jeanie Smith. As you
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: told us, her remains also found the same area where
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Julia's body was found. What are the parallels similarities in
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: those two cases? Okay, so the similarities between Julia Woodward
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and Genie Smith's cases. In February of this year, when
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: they were talking about re examining Julia Woodward's case, Lieutenant
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Tom Reed at the Washall County Sheriff's Department said of
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: both cases to ADC eight, quote, it's very unusual that
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: two victims from the same year with similar circumstances would
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: be found in the same geographical area like that. The
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: similarities that these brutal murders can't be denied and according
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to police, both women's rye eyes were covered by bandages.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Julia Woodward's eyes had actual band aids covering them, while
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Genie Smiths were said to have been covered by medical paint.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Both had their identification and underwear taken from them, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: each woman was left with only one shoe, which makes
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: me wonder if he was keeping these things as trophies
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: per se, as we often hear of serial killers. It
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: is also believed that both of the female victims are
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: bludging and death with rocks, as both murder scenes there
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: were bloody rocks found covered with hair and blood. Julia
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: and Genie each died also as a result of fractured skulls,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and of course the fact that these young women's bodies
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: were discovered within a quarter mile of each other and
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: both buried in shallow graves. Yes, the similarities are incredible
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: in your line of work, Ashley willcought, we in our
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: line of what we call it a fingerprint crime, and
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: you can use that in court, as you well know,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: when a prosecutor chooses or goes forward with trial to
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: prosecute a case, they can look at similar modus upper
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: and date the similar ways of conducting the crimes of
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: committing the crimes, because honestly, it goes to the old saying,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a coincidence, much less that many.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: It's a pattern. It's what they've done to each victim
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. You know something I don't
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: understand you, Kaskey, is that if his DNA, if they
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: had had it for so long after or he abducted
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the female hitchhik or AA in two thousand and seven,
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: what took him so long to charge him with Julia
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Woodward's murder? That is such a great question. You know,
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with all of the cool cases and
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: can Reno Nevada. I imagine there are many, and I'm
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: not sure exactly the timeline of how long DNA takes
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: to process and things like that. But the truth of
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: the matter is is that the DNA was discovered on
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Julia Woodward's genes and it was connected to Sullivans. Oxygen
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: reported that there wasn't any quote specific evidence brought up
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: to the grand jury in the case of Julia, and
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: his attorney David Houston posed the question that quote, even
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: if DNA shows he had contact her with her. Where
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: is the act of murder proof? She just happened to
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: have his DNA all over her and she was bashed
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: in with a rock. But let me ask you a question.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: When was Julia's body found? We have bodies, Okay, on
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: March twenty fourth of nineteen seventy nine. If Julia's body
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: was found, it was discovered about fifteen miles north of
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Reno in a hungry valley. Got it and then Jeannie
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: was last nineteen seventy eight, so they're about a year apart.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: But to you, doctor Tim Gallagher, Medical Examiner, State of Florida, Yes,
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: it took a long time to connect the two, but
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: we have to remember that newly discovered DNA techniques have
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: just occurred. It may have been this, you know, some
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: new technique that made it possible to analyze the DNA
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: on Julia's body. That is correct, Nancy. And not only
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: has new techniques become available, but databases DNA databases that
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: are present in individual states now can speak with each other.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Now are connected with each other. So once the DNA
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: has been identified, it can be searched through many many databases,
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: through many many areas of the country, and then a
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: match can be made that way, where in previous cases,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: if the DNA was found in one state and the
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: crime was found in another state, that connection could never
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: be Jennifer Zikowski, do you believe that Charles Gary Sullivan
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: now seventy three, living quietly as a plumber, is a
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: serial killer? And why you know, every arrow to me
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: is pointing in that direction. You've got these these three
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: young vulnerable women's these three women that we know of?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: How many more women are they're out there that police,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you know, may not have talked about yet, that the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: DNA hasn't been submitted yet. Four. I believe if that,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: there are going to be several, if not numerous, more
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: cases that arise out of this. What about it? To
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: James shell Nutt, Thank you's a serial killer? Why? Or
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: why not? Yeah? I think it's a serial killer. Look,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: this guy has got connections to all of these women
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: who come up missing. He has got a pattern of
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: sexual abuse of a victim, at least one that we
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: know of, that's common and prolific amongst serial killers. This
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: guy's got tied to two different women who were both
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: found with the same serial killer signature. A third victim
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: that he's suspected of. Yeah, this guy's a serial killer.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: This guy is dangerous. And I will tell you there
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: could easily be many more victims that we're not aware of,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: that may not be known. But chies are there. How
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: many victims are there that we know of? Well so
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: far through You know Linda Tailor, he's a suspect in
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: in her disappearance. Of course her body has not been
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: found yet. Jeanie Smith, who's you know, the similarities between
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: her and Julia Woodward, you can't deny them. And I
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: would also say that it's important to talk about his
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: Google searches. So after he became registered as a sex
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: offender in California, after the two thousand and seven crime
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: against this innocent young woman who had been had hitch hiking.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: According to Oxygen, he searched the phrases for child sex,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: naked children, and lost hikers in California. If that's not
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: chilly Wow to Ashley Walcott, is this guy a serial killer? Oh?
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I absolutely think he is a First and foremost, he's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: a predator. But secondly, I have no doubt. I completely
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: agree with the comments that have been made. He is
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a serial killer. He has a method, a mayor who
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the victim is, it's the victim of opportunity that he
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: can do these specific things too. With the DNA steps
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: against him, what do you believe he can expect at trial?
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know that Nevada is a death penalty state.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: What about it, Ashley? It absolutely is a death penalty state.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: And as the reality of that is, if he is
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: convicted of first degree murder, then he faces sentencing of
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: the death penalty or in the alternative life without parole question, Jennifer,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: does Nevada have life without parole? They do, And in fact,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: with the case from two thousand and seven, he could
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: have received that had he been charged with the original
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: crimes rather than the lesser crimes that he received only
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: three and a half years of prisons of absolutely, how
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: do you think he managed, Jennifer, how do you think
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: he managed to avoid police for four decades? You know,
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's such a good question. He knew what he
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: was doing, He was methodical about his approach. He you know,
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: we see these Google searches now from two thousand and seven,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, you know, when he became a
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: registered sex offender. But back then we didn't have Google
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: searches to go back on. So what was he looking up? Then? Um,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I have no doubt that he had a method to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: his approach, that there was something with hitchhikers and these
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: vulnerable women that he went after and somehow escaped police,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: even though you know, there were there were so many
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: signs that pointed to him, including you know, going on
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: at deep with Linda Taylor who had disappeared, whose body
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: has never been found. Right so to James shell Nutt,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: how do you believe he went under the radar and
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: avoided detection for forty years. I believe it was a
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: perfect stole over this guy, Nancy. Look, you know, think
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: about it. You know, this is at a time when
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of these murders happened before the advent of
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: DNA as we know it today. He lived in an
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: area that he had a close, desolate place to dump
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: the bodies at Yoke Desert close by a lot of
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: these women were women that were discarded by society and
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: discarded by others. You know, when you think about back
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: in those times, it was not a time where everybody
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: had a social media account. You know, if you were
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: living across country, it was a little bit more difficult
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: to communicate with those around you, or your presence was
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: not quite as known like it would be on Facebook
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: or Snapchat or other things. And so I think it
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: was based off the time and error when these things happened,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: the availability of a desolate proximity for him to dump
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: these bodies, the advent of DNA had not come as
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: far as long as it was, and I think it
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: was a perfect storm. But fortunately that storm came to
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: a head, and he's known for what he's done at
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: this point in time. Take a Little Star Friends at
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Kate in XV ABC fifteen, Nicole Valdez. Duncan, though, says,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: if you ask his wife, she loves her husband said
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: he's convinced. She's convinced and told me that he would
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: never do such a thing, and she's going to defend
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: her husband. But she's not so sure. And if anything worried,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: Woodward may not be the only victim. Among dozens of investigators,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: cadaver dogs search the entire High Country block, Duncan confronted detectives.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I asked him why are they cadaver dogs here? And
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: he said, I can't tell you because we're investigating and
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: we cannot say anything. But the only thing I can
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: tell you our agency uses these dogs when we're looking
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: for dead bodies. Crime lab sources tell ABC fifteen investigators
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: from the Arizona Department of Public Safety were given Sullivan's
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: DNA for testing seeing birds fly around, you know, like
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I said, Oh my gosh, are they looking for body pieces?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Sullivan could be connected to other murders in Arizona, but
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: how many. This was a very big crime, I am
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: a huge crime. And we still don't know, and I
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: would like to know. We wait as justice unfalls. Nancy
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Gray Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,