Latest / Cait & Court's Cozy Corner: Romance Readers / Let's Talk About: The Score by Kennedy Ryan
Transcript
- Cait: Hi. Court: Hi. Cait: Welcome back to season two of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner: Court: Romance Readers. Cait: Where we only talk about books that we love. And we're bringing you all of our favorite romance and romantasy reads because Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: our motto is Court: When people say that you don't need spice to make a book good, well you don't need running shoes to run, but it helps. Caitlin Stryker: And you know the drill, like and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcasts. Cait: Hi. Welcome back to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Today Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: we are talking with you about the book The Score by Kennedy Court: Yes. Cait: Ryan. Court: Such a good book. We've been waiting guys, we've actually been trying to talk about this book since July, maybe when I read it. I messaged Kate and she was like, I've been waiting to read Kennedy Ryan and Cait: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Court: schedules, but we are so excited to talk to you guys about this book. It is so good. Cait: So excited. It's so, so good Court. And like, and Kennedy Ryan had obviously been on my radar for a while. And I was like, Court: Yes, yes. Cait: on my list, on my list, on my list, like on the TBR, you know, and just kept Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: getting bumped because life and... I feel like even if- Court: Right. And we kept hearing about And I kept hearing about Reel, which is actually these books are connected. Cait: Yeah. Court: I don't even know how because I didn't dive into that one yet. Because you don't need Cait: Yeah. Court: to you can read this without reading Reel, but now I cannot wait to read Reel and the Cait: Mm. Same. Court: third one. So that's what we were trying to read, I think, for a while. And then this beautiful book came out. And we got to enjoy this one. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. And we jumped in this one, But this is my favorite thing about romance series books versus like romantasy books, which I, I get me, I love both. But what I love about the romance series is you can typically dive in anywhere. for those of us who are busy everyone's Court: Yes, yes, which has been saving for us. A saving grace. Cait: busy. Everybody has stuff going on. Everybody goes, oh, that book's been on my TBR. And then like the author comes out with another one. And you're like, I haven't even read that one. And you don't know where to begin. And there's hype about this book. And you kind of want to read the one that's hyped at the moment, or you feel like you're missing out. And how many books can one person read? Court can read every book ever written. Some of us, Court: A lot. But Cait: you know, normies like myself, we can only read four books a month. Like that's our, you know, my friends and family think I'm a fast reader. Court: Which is still very high. Yeah, four books a month is nothing Cait: But Court: is it sneeze at? Is that the term? That's still amazing. Like that is still Cait: Nothing to sneeze at. Yeah. Court: very committed reader, four books a month. Yes. Cait: Yes, totally. But like so a romantasy series, you can't just pick up the second book or the third. You will have no clue what's going on. Even if you're like Yeah. Yeah. Court: Closing out if you do. Like you need the buildup. You need to understand the stress of what's happening, the cliffhanger, the like, pain. Otherwise, you just it will never quite feel the same. It's why I swear I didn't love Throne of Glass the way other people have, is because I read it in the wrong order. Because I read Assassin's Blade first, and you're not supposed to. It's a prequel. You're Cait: yeah. Right. Court: supposed to read that after the second book, like in the Queen of Shadows or Cait: Uh-huh. Court: in a tandem read the fourth. Like, That's the way you're supposed to do it. And I really think because everyone loves that series. And Cait: Yeah. Court: it did not- like I didn't love it as much as ACOTAR personally, but I just think Cait: Yeah. Court: it's because I read it in the wrong order. So I'm gonna do a reread. I'm gonna do a reread. Cait: Wrong order. That's honestly that's all it takes. Yeah. Court: It's been a couple of years. Cait: There you go. I haven't read that one yet and I'm dying too. So we'll get there when we get there. But Court: Yes. Cait: I was dying to read any Kennedy Ryan book because I'd Court: Yes. Cait: heard amazing things about her. And then also I'm like, and she's a black romance author. So like double down. I'm, I want to know more. Court: Yes. Yes, of course. Cait: So then Court read this one. She was You gotta read it, it's amazing. I was like, perfect. We did read it in the summer and then we were just waiting to connect on when we were gonna record it. We're finally recording it now. The great part about this book is I think you could read it any season, anytime. Court: Oh yeah. It's definitely not Cait: It's a good read. Court: as- It was like again, it worked well for Sad Girl Summer this year because it really was Sad Girl Summer. Everything was sad, including this book. But it's Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Court: any season. This one, because of the weight of the book, Cait: Yeah. Court: it does deal with very heavy things, like fair warning with this one. It's romance, Cait: That's true. Court: it's spicy, it's a beautiful love story, but it is also heavy. But it- Cait: Yeah. Court: You earn it and you Cait: It's not! Court: earn the lift back out of it. So it's not, it's not Cait: Yes. Court: like it doesn't like destroy you, like, but it Cait: N no. Court: is hard, but then you get the joy from the hard, like our heroine, like the lead character goes through, which we should probably say what the actual Cait: Exactly. Court: synopsis of the book is for everyone. Synopsis of the book. Yes. Okay. Cait: Yeah, let's dive in. So court take off with the synopsis. Court: So Verity Hill, she's our main female character. We start in the present day with her. She's meeting with a director because she is a screenwriter and he wants her to have help adapt this film about Desi Blue, who I believe is a fictional character similar to Nina Simone, but from the Harlem Renaissance. And someone Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: that Verity has put a lot of time studying in her adult life. And when she was in school, she was always kind of obsessed Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: with her. And so she was recommended to him. She finds out after he tells her about this project, which is her dream project, like the best thing she could Cait: Yes. Court: ever write on, that the composer that's also on it is His name is Monk. We call him Monk. He has an actual official name that I can't think of right now. But Monk is what he goes by. Yeah, his name is Monk. Cait: But it's monk. Like the C in this is monk. It's monk in Verity. Yeah. Court: And that he, it's her ex. It's her ex-boyfriend from college. And that's kind of all we find out. Like, he's the one that suggested you, we're still looking for a lead actress, we want you, and she's in. And then that flashes her back to college. Cait: Yeah. Court: And we go down this world of her and Monk falling in love. And then her and Monk in that time, we know something happens, something breaks them up. And then you go through that period and it brings you back to the present, which Actually, with that, because I don't want to give spoilers yet, but like the really cool part of that is I thought as soon as she did it, like, Oh we're Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: in a flashback, we're in a dual story, dual timeline Cait: Right. Court: story, which I love. They're some of my favorites. Cait: Yeah. Court: And I was like, we're in one of these again. But it wasn't. She takes you Cait: It's not. Court: it starts at the beginning, takes you back, and then you stay back. Like you go in chronicological Cait: Yeah. Court: order through the book, which Cait: Yeah. Court: was really cool and different than a lot of romances I've read recently. So I really, really liked that. Cait: Yes. And it made it, I'm with you, Court. And what it did, it actually made it more adult. You know, Court: Yes. Cait: sometimes when you're constantly going back and forth. And I, I love a lot of those ones too, but they Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: feel younger to me because I feel like we keep relating the current feeling back to like an 18-year-old's feeling. And so... yeah. Yeah. Court: Yes. Well, and they usually go over a long age, like fourteen to eighteen, where this is just them in college. Yeah. Cait: It's like teen age years and so everything kind of gets a, a more youthful slant on it versus when like this one is college and then adulthood and then it's like very adult, you know, like and, and even the like college being as young as we go just sets it at an older bar. which I, which I often find myself really appreciating because I think I was, I've been thinking lately, I'm like, why do I love reading more than I love watching TV these days? Court: Yes, right? Welcome to my life. Cait: And I think it's because it's I think it's because it's really hard as like a woman who's, you know, in her forties and over 40 to feel represented on TV. You know, like there's tons Court: Yes. Cait: of things about the guys, and then all the women are moms or girlfriends or like sidebar, or there'll be like one show. Court: And in an interesting In an interesting way. In a way that's Cait: It yeah, like there's Court: like actually not just like you said, the sidebar character, the Cait: Yeah. Court: like little icing the cake. That's actually a proper story that you get pulled into. Where we are Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: like always in the main female character's point of view in most of these romance books, which... yes. Cait: Exactly. And then And then you're like, oh, and then I love when the ones feel a little bit older because I'm like, okay, this is kind of and okay again, because it's a genre that always airs on the optimistic positive side, I'm like, this is nice to read. It's like, I, I'm relating to it from my like adult life and like my adult issues and things and whatever. Court: Yeah. Cait: But I know it's gonna end up okay and you know what I mean, and Court: Yeah. Cait: like it's enjoyable and it's not dense or heavy or taking me too much effort to like to, to understand. So at the end of a busy work day and especially like at this age, it's like Court and I are always joking. I Court: Yeah. Cait: said to Court the other day, I was like, I don't know that you've got brain fog. I think you just have a lot going on. Like, like two to three jobs plus Court: You're just that busy. Cait: a family. Plus, you know, it's like how many things can one brain actually Court: Ooh. Cait: like functionally kind of rotate through at all times? And it's just like a really busy stage of life. So... Court: Mm hmm. Cait: Yeah, So that's where it's like I don't need the most complicated literature right now, you know? But I still need it well written. Yeah. Yeah. Court: Yes, we need that relief and escape. It needs to be well written and an escape and relief. Like Like you want- it's hard to go into too heavy when you, 'cause, because biz- life is busy and Cait: Yeah. Court: the world is, that you want that place that you can go to but still feel taken care of with the author, that you can trust them. Yes. Cait: Yeah. Exactly. And so then what's So then what's wild about this book is I think I texted you at one point, Court, when we were reading it. And I was like, oh my gosh, like I f- she writes it so well. So the main character has bipolar Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: and, and she and you can really tell that Kennedy Ryan did her research on all of this and really Court: Yes. Cait: was in, was in she writes in the beginning that it was like important to her that it was empathetically written and, and also in a way that feels real, but it feels like so real that reading it through the main character's point of view, I was like, I feel like, like I'm... yeah. Court: it's uncomfortable. Like it no, she did such a good job. And I talked to friends that have bipolar and a lot that had read this at one particular that said like Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: this really did feel like an honest I'm forgetting the word. Brain fog. Representation. Representation of what it can be like. And obviously there's Cait: Pred I wouldn't say prediction, but like an honest representation. Yeah. Court: things that are slightly romanticized, obviously, because of the story points, but it Cait: Course. Court: real. But what I loved in this book is that you get this combination. You get this amazing, amazing love story. Like the actual love story of the two Cait: Mm. Court: leads, there's tragedy in it, of course, but their arc and their love story from where it started and where it ends is beautiful. But then you get these real life things of Cait: you're just rooting for them. Court: her the bipolar and the horrible experiences she goes through that. But then you're also at the same time honestly getting black history lessons throughout the entire book. Cait: Yeah. Court: In a way that's not, it's like it's spoon fed without you knowing it's spoon fed, if that makes sense. It's really broken down and simple and like put Cait: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Court: there and to make you think and make you like connect the dots, but you don't feel like that's what's being done, if that makes sense. Cait: Absolutely. It totally makes sense. And I'm actually just pulling up. I read this one on my phone and I'm pulling it up right now because I'm like, wait, I actually remember highlighting some s- like some passages and stuff because I was like, Court: Yes, there are some very amazing passages in this book. Cait: this is so like there was just stuff that really stood out to me. Yeah, I did. I highlighted and so you're saying black history, and one of the ones where she wrote, you know. So Verity was a double film major, double major in film and African American studies. And she says at one point, she's like, I wanna tell our stories. I wanna know black history for myself because they'll rewrite it and erase it if we let them. What we take for granted, they'll take away. Our legends get lost. I want to write my own fresh ideas. Yes, but I also want to revive and find roots in the old ones, the ones who deserved a shout out in this world, but barely got a whisper. And that's when she's in college talking to Monk before, you know, we come into present day and he recommends her for this job. So it's- that's like how you know, like, oh it's her dream job. Court: Yeah, we get to her dream job. Cait: But I really feel like Kennedy Ryan is like speaking for herself in this moment too, where she's like, here's why I'm writing Court: A hundred percent. Cait: this book. Because these char- these amazing artists, you know, from the Harlem Renaissance and times before that and everything, but we're in the Harlem Renaissance in this book, they do get passed over. And Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: we're in a time right now politically where we're, we're all cognitively watching and very aware and like saying no, you can't do that as they try and erase history, like actual history in front of us. Court: in front of us. We're watching the nar We're watching the narrative try to be erased right in front of us. They're literally trying to erase maps with like Sharpies. Cait: You know Yeah Court: Like it's just- it's... Cait: You re- you think like, oh my gosh, something like that could never happen. No one would ever buy it. And then you're watching them like the powers that be try literally like force feed and shove it into everybody's faces and everyone's like, we, we're no. But they're like, Court: Yes. Cait: you can't say no. And it's just kind of like looking around going, this is insane. So you realize how important this is. And then again, this is another like shout out to the genre and why we have this podcast. This is a romance book, you know, that's dealing really well with all of this. Court: Yes. Yes. And it has all of this in it. And then really hot, spicy sex scenes too. Like the balance Cait: my gosh. Court: in this, and this is true, a true art form. I have to say, but Kennedy Ryan, the thing Cait: Yeah. Court: she balances in this book is genius level. Cait: Wow. Yeah. Court: She literally- the parallel between what her character, as you were just saying, was trying to Cait: Mm. Court: do and what she did actually do with this book with her other books, which I'm going to read. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: It, it's amazing because she did. She found a way to do it. Like she, and she focuses with the Harlem Renaissance and with art in particular, how easily art Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: and artists and creativity can be erased and reclaimed and renamed. And Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: I love work like this that combines Cait: Yeah. Court: so many things and great Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: storytelling, great writing, great history, great like emotions and depth and real struggles. Cait: Yeah. Court: And Romance, like spice. Beautiful love, like lets you Cait: And space. Yeah. Court: get that escape. That's amazing. And she did Cait: It's amazing. Court: this. Cait: She did. Okay, so I will say from here on, there's gonna be spoilers. So if Court: Yes. Cait: you haven't read it yet, read it. If you don't mind spoilers before you read it, listen in and then you know. Highly recommend this book. I really think like... Yeah. Yeah. Court: Yes. Go. You should read this one actually, honestly. Pause us here Pause this here and then come hang out and listen to us talk about the rest because you will also read Cait: Yeah. Court: this book and be like, I need to talk to someone about this book because it's so good. Cait: I need I need Court: So come back and talk to us if you haven't read this book. With that said, okay. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Court: So... we get to college. She's got a girlfriend, she's bisexual. She's also very open about that throughout the whole book. Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: Talks about that from an educated place. I love the way it was written in this book and, um... Cait: Yeah. Court: Yeah. Their version of it. It just felt really real. And Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: I loved even with her and Petra and the way they talked about the relationship and Monk. So they meet at a party. Monk comes and he meets her, and her girlfriend sees that she's like interested. Verity's Cait: Yeah. Court: girlfriend sees that Verity's interested in Monk and convinces her for the first time ever to try a threesome with him because Cait: Yeah. Court: she hasn't. She's never like really reacted to another man like this before. And they've Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: always had this kind of relationship. Her and her girlfriend, they've always promised like they're together. It's an open monog- it's an open relationship and kind of monogamous, Cait: Yeah. Court: but they'd always promise like if feelings became too real for someone else or they need more, they would just be honest and tell each other. Cait: Yeah. And Petra's really the driver of it being an open relationship. Like it's obvious Court: Basically. Yes. Yes. Cait: through the whole thing, like Verity would prefer it not be, but like but then Petra Court: Yes, but she's Cait: convinced her it's college and she's kinda like, Okay, cool. Court: Yeah. Cait: And it's definitely all like consensual. It's just Court: But she But she hasn't- she hasn't gone out of the relationship. So the idea Cait: Yeah. Court: is like the two of them are girlfriends and then they hook up with other people but don't date other people. Would kind of Cait: Yeah. Court: be the difference, I guess. Anyways, she's interested in Monk. They have a super hot night, the three of them. Ri- like Cait: Oh yeah. Court: insane of Petra basically guiding Monk. Cait: Very interesting Very interesting though, because Petra was also told Monk, I believe Monk was not allowed penetr- yeah, Court: No kissing. Cait: There no, no wasn't it no penetration in Verity, like no vaginal penetration. Court: Well, he did with his mouth and his fingers. No penis. Cait: No, I know, but no not penis. No peen magine for Verity. I think it- I believe it wasn't because Court: was peanut or not, but it probably wasn't. I feel like you're right. But I know there was no kissing. Cait: Yeah, because then we have to save all of that for like the sake of the genre, right? Like that can't happen until later. Oh no, no, no. Court: Right. Also, it was hot enough I didn't even miss it. So I that's why I don't even know because it was so hot. I, I don't know. Was it? Cait: Didn't even miss it. I just remember it being like really, really hot, even though there were all- even though and I remember it striking me because Petra was the one who was like very like, yeah, we can do whatever with anybody. And then she convinces the threesome to happen. And then the three of Court: Mm. Cait: them get in there and she's like, these are the rules. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I was like, Court: Yeah. Cait: Okay, wait a minute. That's not totally free flowing. No. Yeah. Right. Court: love though we're like we don't even miss it the penis like lesbians and bisexual women everywhere are like yep thank you that's what we've been saying that's That's our point. Cait: Which is probably also why I was like, wait, Court: Ha ha ha Cait: I noticed. I was like, wait, where is it? What are we doing? Court: There's something There's something missing here in this. Yes, so very hot. Cait: But it was a hot threesome night. Court: Very hot. And then adorably, the next day she sees him and she's like asking if he'd wanna hang out again or do this again. And Cait: Yeah. Court: he fully admits like he can't because he's too into her and he doesn't share. Like and not Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: try and shut- And I didn't know genuinely like What was gonna happen at this point yet? Like where was this gonna go? Was it gonna be meaningful? Was it gonna be cheat? Like I have no idea. You're just like, okay. Yes. Cait: S you have no idea right now. It no. So lost in the woods at this point in the book. I'm like, who's our romantic interest? What's happening? Where are we going? Court: Yes. Cait: And, oh, spice early, which I love. So Court: Yes, which we should know spice early generally means that's not the person. And although Monk was in it, but the Petra Cait: Yeah. Court: part of it that if it's early on and spicy early on, that's usually not end goal. Cait: Usually. But like I think we had this was- we had in our pre-flashback moment, Verity was like kind of like flirting with a ho- hot hostess, right? And Court: Yes. Cait: then got her number. So I was like, I was you know, that's where you're kind of like, who? Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Court: Yeah, so you knew all she something you weren't sure what. Yeah. Which is super fun part of this book. So they So they end up getting together, her and Monk. She ends up falling- because basically that night of that party, Petra ended up talking to some girl that she wants to bring into the relationship and create a thrupple, Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: and Verity does not want to. So then like a couple weeks later runs into Monk and he finds out she's single. And he, like he was so down bad from the beginning that I just assumed Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: something was else before what happened was gonna get in the way. Cause he was just so like, wait, she's Cait: Yes. Court: been single for three weeks. Like, did I miss my shot already? Have I not like he was Cait: Yeah. Court: just so like this girl is my girl. And Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: they get together and they, dude, they have this amazing, hot sex filled relationship for a couple Cait: Yeah. Court: months in college, basically. Cait: And it's like college hot sex. So it's just like relentless. You know, like everybody can just go over and over. Yeah. Court: And it's yes, all the time, anywhere, missing class. All night, like, yeah, it's college hot sex. Exactly. This is also why college romances exist, people, because there's a level of... Listen, I got a lot of UTIs in college and I don't get them now. Let's just split it that way. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Which we all remember. Yeah. Same. Same. Yeah. Yeah. Court: So they yes, they have this beautiful relationship that's actually so pure and like joyful, and you're so in it with them, and he's so kind Cait: Yeah. Court: of like that cinnamon roll, like just all about her down bad main male character. But Cait: But you know, You know something's gonna happen because he is very- he No. he's very upfront. Yes, and he's very upfront. Court: He has a past. No, with his parents. Yeah. He's his His biggest trigger that he says from the get-go, to a point you're like, oh something's gonna happen here, is that he can't be cheated on. And that's Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: why he doesn't share, doesn't want an open relationship. Like he has to trust a partner and he has zero tolerance for cheating because his dad did it to his mom and he just can't do it. And Verity has her own hangups about love and relationships because her parents, her dad was bipolar, undiagnosed bipolar. And Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: He's their love the her mother's love for him and his love for her destroyed them. And eventually her dad ended up burning down their house with the mom in it and going out because he was having a manic episode. And Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: she saw that. So she sees love as this cause of dangerous and thing that can destroy you. And it can be overwhelming. And they have this. They Cait: Dangerous thing. Yeah. Yeah. Court: have this amazing love. So they both have that issue in their relationship. Cait: They do. It's really interesting. Like they Yeah, they both have issues from their like from their Court: Parents. Cait: how they grew up from their parents. And again, that's where this one feels like a really adult story because as it goes along, you know, and the parents or the parental figures in Verity's case, since her parents are dead, kind of they come back around a couple of times and, and actually like drop some real wisdom that's like Listen, this is all- everything exists in a gray area. There's no black and white here, you know, which Court: Yeah. Cait: is really refreshing and wonderful and I think important too. Cause especially with romance books and we can read them and everything can start to feel very black and white. And it's like that's not real. Like it there is... Yeah. Court: sign of a good writer. It's the s like you She's a good writer because she fills in that backstory and she does give different perspectives. Like it's you never know you only Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: know one side of the story and she gives you the other side at certain points in the book that you need to be able to see the whole picture. That she does very well. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. And also you watch the and And you watch the character, like the characters themselves develop and grow. Like you watch Monk, Court: Yes. Cait: you know, he ha- Monk has to mature. And his Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: viewpoint on relationships and like his like hard like thing about like cheating of any kind and all of that stuff. Like that needs to mature, you know? And then same for Verity. Court: Well, I mean cheating. People can have things about cheating, but he still Cait: You can, but his line is so intense and it's like... Yeah. Court: So that he couldn't even see what was happening. And that was a set. So So basically she has, she starts having like her first manic. She's not bipolar yet. She doesn't know she's bipolar. She knows her dad had Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: something that was probably undiagnosed bipolar, but again, she's not aware. So she starts having the first like signs and things of not sleeping, being obsessed about like finishing this work and going on with him, and then it turns into sexual things, which is very common for early onset first manic episodes in bipolar. Cait: Yeah. Court: And she ends up going to this club and basically like almost g- gangbanged this like group of old men from like a table in the bathroom and he gets called there from her ex Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: and he's just like, what is wrong with you? And he just walks out. Cait: Yeah. Court: Like I still there's this- the only thing with that is I'm still like I know that was his hang up and that's why she had to make it so Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: big. Like really though, this person you've loved. so much. Like you guys were gonna get married. You were gonna defer your school acceptance. You're switching your whole life to stay together. And you don't give a second to think like this is really weird behavior. Cait: Right. But he again, because it was like such a big trigger for him, their college age, so young, you know, we're like talking early twenties. Court: Yeah. Cait: So too young to really see outside of yourself. Like also for him as a dude, like frontal lobe is not fully developed yet. You know Court: Yeah, True. True. It's a lot to ask of a guy. Cait: what I mean? Like all these things. It's a lot. And she is pretty aggressive with him in that moment when he discovers her, you know? Court: Yes, it's true. Yeah, she gives it. Like he's not- It's not victim, but I, it's- And also you're right, 'cause she also never contacts him after that either. So Cait: Yeah. So it's like both sides. Like and it is a huge thing that if that happened at that age and you had all those hang ups that would be like poof you know, especially if you felt like you were Court: Yeah, yeah. And she doesn't want to And she doesn't want to try to explain it to him either because she wants to figure out herself and what's going- Like she, she has that Cait: She still doesn't understand it. Court: huge thing. He kind of saves her from that happening, but she ends up wandering naked, decides she needs to set the statue on fire from the- at the art gallery, and it becomes like in her whole manic episode. And luckily, first security guards like wrestler the ground and trap her naked and are like Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: These these asshole men. And then a professor catches her and sees her and then realizes something's very wrong and gets her the help that she needs, gets her to the psych ward instead of arrested. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Court: And then she spends, then we kind of go away for a few years and we see like she does all this doctors appointments. She tries different medications, she's like living her life with this, with bipolar and figuring it out. And we kind of pop Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: in, is it 12 years later? I feel like it's 12. Cait: I wanna say yeah. Yeah, 'cause they're in their thirties then. Like they both have had sort of individual career successes, you know, along the way and like developed well, she had hers and he's had his. Yeah. Court: Yes. She's kind of watched it. He's been famous and she's had yeah, But she's been watching him, I feel like, in media. Like he's the type you see him Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: at red carpets and he's got different dates and like she's seen Cait: Yeah. Court: him and stayed away, but like been happy for him. Cait: Yeah. Court: And she's had her own success too, true. But she's hidden her bipolar for almost all of her employers because it came out on one job and it was horrible for her. But she decides with this film, Cait: Yeah, and she got fired. Court: when she takes it, which Miles had Miles, Monk had suggested to the director to hire her because he knew this was basically her dream, which is him still somewhere Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: in his heart, obviously, we know, holding a flame for Cait: Yeah. Court: her. And she decides this time she's gonna be honest. So she actually Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: tells the director, full stop, that she has bipolar, where she's at with it, what her medication is, what the signs are, and he agrees to work with her on it and agrees to keep it from Monk. Because even Cait: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Court: at this point. When she's an adult twelve years later, she still decided that she can't tell Monk what happened. Cait: No, I get that. I think Court: which is hard. Cait: it's I think it's such a traumatic moment and event in her life that it's like there's too much shame attached to it to it for her to talk about it. Court: But he's still being like a dick to her about it. Like he's still treating Cait: Yeah. Court: her like she- So like to me, there's that part that I'd be like, I wouldn't be able to handle that. Or even if I was director and knew I couldn't handle him thinking these things of you because it didn't Cait: Hm. Court: that's not what happened. And I But I g- I hear, yeah, like it's all makes sense in the book. Like she gives reasons. Cait: Yeah. Court: The author gives reasons why Verity can't get there yet. And then they start, but Monk realizes, of course, he still loves her, he always has, never stopped, and they start kind of like seeing each other, hanging out, but without strings, because Monk does not want strings because he doesn't trust her because she cheated on him once upon a time. And obviously their feelings start flying and they're like right back to it and going. And then he realized like, no, I can't because I'm gonna I I'm gonna love you. Like I can't do casual with you and I can't trust you to be with you. And then she finally Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Court: tells him the truth. Which is devastating. That whole the chapter when she finally tells him and he realizes when he was spinning out and upset about her cheating and that she was in a mental hospital and going through treatment for Cait: Yeah. Court: bipolar. Like, he is exactly how you want him to respond, is what he goes through. And that's the heartbreak, Cait: Yeah. Court: too. Like, you also feel awful for him, you feel awful for her. Like the pain of that, knowing some of you loved going through that. And she said, like, we needed this Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: time. I needed to figure out who I was with this disease. I needed to work through these things. Cait: Yeah. Court: But But the guilt he now feels, which is also, I guess, what she was trying to save him from for a bit of Cait: Mm. Court: their hangout, because she knew he'd feel so guilty once he knew. Cait: And then there's kind of that Court: What had happened. Cait: like, and then if he feels guilty and then there's like maybe like pity involved. You know what I mean? Like all of these different things where she's like, I don't want that to Court: Yeah, there was there's more to it. Cait: be a part of this with us. Like let's figure out if this is a thing anymore or not. Yeah. Yeah. Court: Yes. Like maybe we can just be together just us. Yeah. Without that part. and I And I think for a while she's not expecting to actually rekindle long term either. She wants the like hang out because she doesn't want to strap Cait: No. Yeah. Court: him down, straddle him down with her and her bipolar. She doesn't want it Cait: With her, yeah. Court: and she knows if she tells him, then he will just accept her and try to help her and w and stay committed to her. That's the other part now that I'm remembering. Sorry, it was two months ago. That's why she doesn't want to tell him. Cait: Uh-huh. Yeah. That's the other part. And she's like, no, She's like, listen, this, you know, statistically like this doesn't go well. You know what I mean? For like Court: Yes, she never she doesn't She doesn't want to get married, she doesn't want to have kids. She's decided this for herself because the statistics of marriage with bipolar and what happens and the statistic with children with bipolars is just not something she ever wants to do. And she saw it with her own Cait: Yeah. Court: parents. So she doesn't. Cait: Yeah. Well, and even when Well and even when she talks about like what she needs to do to like keep herself level and her whole routine and all of that Court: Yes. Cait: stuff, and I'm like, that makes sense not wanting to like have kids. You know what I mean? Because basically Court: Yeah. Cait: all that kids do is throw off your routine and fuck you up, you know? Like it's like setting a bomb off in your life. Being like, let Court: One hundred percent. Like as a partially sane person, it it's insane. Like I so Cait: me just try and pull all these pieces back together. Court: Yeah. I c- I honestly I agree. Cause it is. It's like, I don't know how you do it. I Cait: Yeah. Court: don't know how they do it, but people do, which is fantastic. And she Cait: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Court: She does find her way there. That's the beautiful part. They do get together Cait: Mm. Court: and then you get to go with them on the ride of like her going through her first episode with him and her fighting him back on it, saying she's not like that's the reality because when you're down, like you can see it clearly, of course. I want you to tell me I want you to call. But then when it's actually happening, you want to refuse that it's happening and you don't want Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: to change. And we get to go through that with them too, which was really cool. Cait: Yeah, that was wild. Like reading Reading that was just like, and he's like, I think this. And as the reader, you're like, she's going into an episode again. And like both of them are kind of like acting like it's not happening, you know. And that's where again in this book, like I just I felt like my skin was on fire. The way that she describes Court: Yes. Cait: hers being on fire and her brain being like, Whoa, you know, just kind of like going all over the place. It was written in a way where I was like, oh my gosh, like I feel like my brain is going all Court: Yeah. Cait: over the place and, and I'm getting ahead of my skis Court: You get Cait: and I'm entering this manic Court: yeah, you're like Cait: episode with you and I'm like and then I would put the book down and like, breathe. Court: We're good. But there is a there is a part that is similar to the hormones and stuff you go through in postpartum and the stuff you go through, Cait: Yeah. Court: even just monthly with our hormones. Like we do hit this Cait: Yeah. Court: thing, and it's like that has me like, oh are you sure you're okay? You seem a little off or a little extra edgy today. And you're like, No, I'm fine. And then tomorrow you're like, I'm PMSing. Okay, got it. That's what we need. Like... There's like this small recognition that you're like, I know that feeling though. When you don't want someone calling you out. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. You know the feeling Court: of what you're feeling or going through. And so when reading Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: it, you can start to take it on because you're like, Yeah, you put yourself there for sure. It is. Cait: Yeah, yeah. It's wild. Like you really go on a ride reading this book. And so you know, you have all of these, that's like their everything that's been going on with that. And then we talked a bit about the history that's peppered through, which is great. We mentioned that there's spice, but Court! Court: Whew, Cait. Cait: Let's talk about the Pumpkin Spice Meter on this, on this bad boy, because she's spicy. Court: Yeah. Yeah. She's a good one. She's Cait: Yeah. Court: Yeah. I'd say she's in Cait: Yeah. Court: that three and a half, four. She's, she's definitely got some scenes you're not reading on a bus. You she's definitely got some scenes you're like, whew. Cait: I think this is a four. Yeah, this is a four. Cause we We have three and a halves out there that like this would be a four for us. I think this is a, a, a, a, a, a Sassy Pumpkin. This is a Sassy Pumpkin. It is. You know, like we have the threesome. Court: Okay. It probably I think for me I think for me it doesn't have quite the four for me, but only because of the emotional toll I've gone on with it. So I think that's why in my head I don't remember it as a four. Cait: You're forgetting the Yeah, no, it's a four. Cause there's the, the threesome part is totally a four. It's hot and it's early Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: and it's like, like fire. Then there's college sex, which is like hot, amazing, nonstop. Court: Yes. All of us, yeah. Cait: Then there's also the, now it's not particularly like turn you on sexy, but there's just that like extra racy level of everything that's happening when she's like goes to the booth and tries to give him a blowjob and he doesn't want it. And then she's dancing on the table and all these guys, and like maybe getting about to get gangbanged, but then she doesn't, you know, like that is like that's another, like, there's a lot of descriptors there. And then there's the pegging. Which is very Court: yeah. I forgot about that. Cait: descriptive and amazing. And like that is, I love that you forgot about that. Like, that is like Court: There's a lot to remember about this book. It has been a couple months. I, I've, I've read a couple peggings since then. I forgot. It is, you're right. It is a Sassy Pumpkin. Cait: I know. And so I'm like, this is a sassy. But this is a sassy because we've we've dealt with a pegging before, but this is a sassy pegging. Like this is like it just did the descrip and I was like, Kennedy Ryan. And that's also where I'm like, I gotta read some like Kennedy Ryan books. I have a feeling. Court: You guys will have to let us know. Is this Is this a sassy a four pumpkin pegging or a three and a half pumpkin pegging? You have to tell us when you read it. But I think you're right. I Cait: I think it's I think this is a four. Court: think we can give it to a four. Like, do you put it Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: on the same level as Heated Rivalry kind of spice? Cait: Yeah, yeah, I do. I think Heated Rivalry is kind of constant and nonstop, especially in the beginning. Like it's a different pace to Court: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cait: it. But yes, I would because I think the way that like you get really fired up reading it and it's really hot and it's really like hap- you're like, oh this is... It's adult sexy. Yeah. Court: True. It is hot. And it's like adult sexy. I don't know how to put it's adult sexy. Yeah. Cait: Like there's been books we've had where I'm like, yeah, it's a three and a half and I would have I'd be like, Hey, you know what? Maybe if you're not too into like too much spice in a book, but you could handle this one. Whereas this one, I'm like, if you're not into too much spice in a book, like you don't you can't handle this one. Like... Court: True. Although I almost feel like the rest of the weight to the book almost evens that out for people. If they're not spicy readers, but there's so much to this book that I think it's well balanced for people that don't love spice. Yeah. Cait: It totally evens it out. There's so much to it. It's very well balanced, but Like there's a couple people in my life who don't love spice, and I'd be like, we're gonna have to find a different book, which like with a lot of these things that I want you to enjoy. Cause I don't think she's gonna enjoy it. Like, yeah. Court: Sorry Allie, you can't read this book. Allie's Cait's sister. She's not our deep spice. She loves our fantasy romantasy, but not our deep spice. Cait: No, she'll go up to a three. You know what I mean? And I could convince Court: Three, yeah. She's a three. Cait: her on a may- like a borderline three five. Maybe a three-five for me, but a three for you. But like this one is she doesn't want to read this book. Court: Yeah. Too much. Fair enough. Cait: And I think that's fair. I think that's Court: Yep, I agree. Cait: fair. But also like for those, for those who are like, I want a little more heat, like you're this is for you. You're Court: This is it. And if you want heat and an amazing storytelling, as we said, amazing narrative and Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: feelings and emotions and sad girls summer and sad girl fall, but also Cait: Yeah. Court: hot fall, this is the one for you. Go Cait: It's Court: read it. Cait: But this one too, like yes. And you know, and I think also, yeah, yeah. I was like, it's not that sad, but no, because then it there's her girlfriends too, right? Like her, Court: It's a whole she- what she go- it's the bipolar part that's really sad, 'cause, because obviously she you go Cait: It's a lot. It's really sad. It's hard. Court: through it with her. It's hard as it would be for anyone. So that's difficult. Cait: For anyone and I think I think it, it in and just that's what I love too is Kennedy Ryan doesn't sugarcoat it. You know what I mean? She's Court: No. Cait: this like this is the reality, you know, this is a really tough disease for someone to live with and it's all the time and they always have to balance it. And the medication for it fucking sucks because like the manic Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: part is great. You know, and like... Court: Yeah, exactly. You like that part. Cait: and it le and And it levels away and it takes away some of your genius that you feel when you're, you know, some of the magic of a brain that is wired differently. The medication. And I know Court: Yeah. Cait: for men, like bipolar medication can take away some of their sex drive and stuff, or like all of it. And that Court: yeah. Cait: fucking sucks. And then you have to be a- you have to live with that for your whole life. Like that's... So I think it's- I know. Court: Yes. Yeah, I get why I understand why it's easy to be like, why'd they go after medication? But then when you actually learn more about bipolar disease, it makes sense. I get the draw Cait: I totally understand why. Yeah. Court: that it is for people. It's like people that drink, like alcoholics people are drinking knowing they shouldn't do it or it's bad, but you still want that relief. Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: You want that feeling that euphoria again with alcohol or Cait: Mm. Court: drugs, that place of their genius that they find when they're going through an episode. It's hard to give that up. A hundred percent. You feel muted. Cait: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like I also think like most things with mental health is we're, we our research and education on it is still not Court: Yes. Cait: where it needs to be. And so the drugs are all still in these like weird testing phases and they don't work great and they have all these horrible side effects and they yeah, and then you gotta like change it around. Court: And they change. You adapt you adapt to them. That's the problem too. You get used to them and you gotta keep changing it. Cait: So it's just not i, i, it's just not a it's 'cause it's a chemical balance that's different for everyone, you know, even Court: Mm-hmm. Cait: people with the thing. So it's just not a smooth, smooth journey. Court: No, it's hard, which is what she shows What she shows in this book, which is why we're saying it is heavy and there's a weight to it, but it's beautiful Cait: Mm-hmm. Court: and the balance that she does find and the life she creates and they do end up getting Cait: Yeah. Court: married at the end. They she finally decides to have a daughter. Like there's just so much joy in it too and spice that this is a book. Add it to your TBR. Go read it. Hopefully you Cait: Yeah, which is wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. Court: read it if you got this far, anyways, and let us know what you think. Yeah. Kennedy Ryan, thank you for Cait: Right? Let us know what you think. Court: this. Cait: Thank you so much for this book. It also like it the way it talks Court: So glad you wrote it. Cait: about and deals with the entertainment business and film and TV Court: Yes. Cait: and everything is very realistic. I love how he's Court: Very good. Cait: like, Yeah, you know, I won a Grammy or I won X or the director's like, yeah, I won this big award, you know, I don't know if it was a Golden Globe or an Emmy or an Oscar or whatever. And I still was eating ramen and struggling to, you know, pay my bills and get the next job. Like that didn't guarantee that and that's the reality. Like that's true. Court: Yeah. Cait: So I just think it's, it's fabulous. Like it's, it's just a great read to me too. Court: Yeah, she did it well. This was also This was also a summer of film sets, I feel like, in books, like this one, Into Cait: I know. Court: the Blue, Shipwrecked, like so many that took place on sets. But they were all done well. So yeah. Cait: Yeah. They were all done really well. And usually they're cheesy Usually they're cheesy and like bad and they make it look like it's much easier than it is. And it's like, No. Court: No. Cait: So yeah, which is maybe why, yeah, it's sad girl summer on set. Well, yeah. That tracks. It's a tough business. All right. Court: Right? Makes sense. Yeah. Cait: Well, we absolutely love this book. We couldn't recommend it to you more. Court: Yes. Cait: We're excited to read more Court: Absolutely. Cait: in the series and just more of Kennedy Ryan in general, especially if she- I have a feeling she's a Sassy Pumpkin writer. I... Yeah. Court: for sure. And there's a third one coming. I don't know which person it's I don't know which person it's about in this book, which characters, but there's a third one in this world that's coming as well. Yeah. So stay tuned for that. Cait: Nice, nice. I want more of I want more of this world. Yeah, stay tuned. All right. That's it for today's episode of Cait and Court's Cozy Corner. Thanks for joining us. We'll be back next week to talk with you about more books. Court: Yes. Bye. Cait: Bye. Caitlin Stryker: You know the drill. Be sure to like and subscribe wherever you listen to our podcast. Courtney: Thanks for tuning in to Cait and Court's Cozy Corner Romance Readers. Caitlin Stryker: Executive producers and hosts, Caitlin Stryker and Courtney Richter, Producers, Canasia Ngo and Hollie Lobosky. Original music, Cassie De Silva.