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Self-Publishing Expert Honorée Corder on the Best Book Marketing Strategies · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: When you talk to writers, there are certain themes that come up repeatedly in conversations.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: And one of those themes is that authors know they need to market their books, but they often get confused about how, when, and where to start.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I'm thrilled today to have a guest who is not only the number one expert on self-publishing, she's also a bona fide expert on book marketing as well.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: You can scour the internet, and I promise you will not find anybody who has more experience, credibility, or success when it comes to publishing and marketing their own books, and creating a multi-layered successful business from their ideas.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Her name is Honorie Corter, and she is the author of dozens of books, including You Must Write a Book, The Prosperous Writers Book Series, Vision to Reality, Business Dating, The Successful Single Mom Book Series, and many, many more.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Now next week she's releasing her brand new book, You Must Market Your Book, Increase Your Impact, Sell More Books, and Make More Money.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is a fantastic little book that is concise, it's to the point, and it's exactly what you need to start selling more books.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, I would be hard pressed to say there's anybody who's had more impact on my mindset and my growth the last couple of years than Anna Recorder.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in my second year of her amazing Empire Builder's Mastermind, and it has truly been life-changing.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: In today's interview, we dive into a few topics in her new book, You Must Market Your Book, including Where Book Marketing Really Begins, How to Think Like a Business Person, How to Market Witch Book, and a lot more.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can get the book now on Amazon via a link that you'll find in the show notes.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I highly, highly recommend that you sign up for Honore's extremely amazing email list.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: And you can do so at honorequarter.com.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, there will be a link in the show notes.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So with that said, let's get right to the conversation with the amazing Honore Quarter.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Honore, thanks for making time to be on the Daily Rider podcast.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think this is your third or fourth time on the show.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna have to send you a special award of some kind.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you for being here and talking about your new book called You Must Market Your Book.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being here.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am so delighted to be with you.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think I'm like like an honorary co-host a little now.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Now remember, I remember back in the days of Johnny Carson, whenever, you know, he would have these recurring guests on his show.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, like Dean Martin would come on and every few months and they would kind of have this, you know, back and forth stuff.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So this is kind of like that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, except there's no alcohol involved in this interview.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So well, there's still time.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's still time.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's five o'clock somewhere, right?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's yes, I think it's five o'clock.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's five o'clock somewhere in the world.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Time zone, right?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm excited to talk about your new book, You Must Market Your Book, for a whole bunch of reasons.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, because you're just an awesome person and I always enjoy chatting with you.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: But number two, because this is a really, really important topic that I think the vast majority of authors and aspiring authors wrestle with this whole idea of marketing.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: So this is a is it is it too grandiose to say this is a landmark book in your collection of books because marketing is such a critical topic?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is that a little bit too grandiose?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it fits.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, I'll go with what you say.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that anything is is grandiose, but that I'm doing, but I appreciate I appreciate that.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I do think that this is the book that is publishing or publisher agnostic.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas with you must write a book, I am biased toward independent and self-publishing.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I have published all of my books except the foreign translations, have gone through traditional publishers.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: You must market your book is for non-fiction books, regardless of publication or publisher.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's for indie books, it's for hybrid published books, and it's for traditionally published books, specifically nonfiction, because that's my wheelhouse.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I say landmark book because, and maybe I should have said this at the beginning, I think something that really sets you apart from all the other authors who are doing podcasts or books or courses on marketing is that you have actually sold a lot of books.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And there's, I know that sounds very simple, but there's a lot of stuff created by people on how to market a book who haven't actually really sold a lot of books or marketed their books very well.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you've actually done this.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or you've written the book, which is interesting to me, sure.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's like somebody's only book is on a book on how to write a book, which is kind of like very meta.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but you've actually done all this and done it very successfully for a long time.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's what really sets you apart.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: One thing, one thing that I I want to ask about, and maybe this is the best place to begin, is actually chapter one in your book is titled Where Book Marketing Really Begins.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that chapter title and I love the concept.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Can you dive into this?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Where does book marketing really start?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because as authors, it's very easy to get mixed up and paralyzed and confused by all the things you could be doing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: But where's the place where book marketing really begins?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: It actually starts with your mindset and when you publish your book in the first place.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I do take people back if I can, if I get them early enough, Kent, right?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I take them to where their mindset is and do they believe that they can market and sell books?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But underneath that, setting that topic aside, it's do you have a quality book?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have a book that is marketable?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can't, and I and I say this in the book as well, and I think this is a is a visual that anyone can have.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: We've all watched the Kentucky Derby.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Almost everyone at any point in their life has watched the Kentucky Derby.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if you show up with a with the prize-winning hog from the state fair, you can't put some lipstick on him and go, This is your Kentucky Derby winning horse.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the dog won't hunt.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna mix all my metaphors, right?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you really have to start with the belief that you can market and sell your book and that your book is the is not the prize-winning hog, but it is the Kentucky Derby horse, that it is the winning book that you're going to be able to market and market and market and sell and sell and sell.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And without having a quality book, you're not going to have a book that is going to get the lift, right?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to get the word of mouth.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to become Atomic Habits or the Four-Hour Work Week.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's not going to be the book that people are like, I know you have a hundred books in your to-be-read pile, but stop and read this book.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it's interesting you mentioned atomic habits.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can we use that as like a two-minute case study really quick?
• 7:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that book, I don't know how many copies it's sold.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think I saw on Tim Ferriss's podcast it's let's sold like 10 million copies or something.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: It sold all the copies.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: It has, you know, tens of thousands of reviews on Amazon.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about that book?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because maybe this is a great case study for a nonfiction book.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about that book in particular that has made it such a popular, best selling and also I assume a best earning book for the author, uh James Clear, because it's been enormously popular.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I assume there are things we can learn from that book about how to put together a book that is going to make it much more likely to sell.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think you're actually uh you're you're you and I are gonna get ahead of ourselves in this conversation by my next book, which is the best-selling book formula, where in which atomic habits would make a great case study.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, perfect.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we'll we'll circle back to that during my 97th visit to your podcast in a couple of months.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, it is it is a successful book for all of the reasons I talk about in the best-selling book formula, but it is also a very well done book.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he is extensive in that book at challenging goal setting and challenging outcome, being outcome focused, and just focused on building habits and then stacking habits.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when we are talking about writers, right?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: When we're talking about building a writing habit, perhaps, I will say, when it's time for me to write, I have an alarm that goes off, which is my Pavlov's dog's bell, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I like have the bell that goes off and it's like alarm, coffee, writing.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So he talks about habit stacking, and everyone wants success, whatever success looks like.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna lose 50 pounds, I'm gonna write a book, I'm going to save a, you know, make a million dollars or save$10,000 or save a million dollars or whatever that looks like.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that he has done an excellent job, as we all know, because we all have the book and we've all read it.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all do.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that you identify the habit that you have to put in place and then consistently execute that habit in order to get the end result.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot to go into with all that for sure.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we could we could definitely talk about atomic habits and daily habits and habit stacking and all of those wonderful things.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where it comes down to him selling so many books is that he has an excellent book that delivers on the promise of the book.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you book and execute what he has suggested in the book, you're going to be successful.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And also people want what he's talking about.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: He wants he is providing a process to get people from where they are to where they want to be.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: They want to get out of pain and into pleasure.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's providing that process.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So the marketing in some ways is done effortlessly by the book.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So is it possible for someone to market to market well a book that doesn't have those elements?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like can can basically you take a pig with lipstick and market it well enough to where it is going to be a really best uh best-selling book, or is that not really possible?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it happen it can happen for a minute, but it won't happen, it won't become that book.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: It won't become atomic habits, it won't become the four-hour work week, it won't be the miracle morning, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It won't be Think and Grow Rich or Psycho Cybernetics, books that have sold and sold and sold and continue to sell and have a life of their own, right?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think James Clear, we could never hear from him ever again.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: He could never do another blog article, he could never do another podcast article, and his book is in the um what's the space term, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Out of the Earth's orbit.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh get it into space.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say high orbit, whatever it is.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: High orbit.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like hi, we're writers, we're not scientists, people.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um so you can you can only do that, I think, in my opinion, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: In in the books that I've studied, the books that sell and sell and sell that are perennial sellers, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like Ryan Holiday talks about, those are really well-written books that are really well-marketed books.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, there is that one plus one equals three equation that comes into play, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a great book that that that gets into momentum and then it stays in momentum.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: It just stays in orbit and it just keeps going.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a great book.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let's assume we have a very well thought out, put together, and well-written book.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: The next chapter in your book is called Book Marketing from 30,000 feet.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think this is such a great concept because we can get lost in the details and in all the different tactics and strategies of book marketing.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Can you give us give us an overview?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: I guess maybe that's the right term.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Give us an overview of what book marketing from 30,000 feet looks like.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's pulling back and thinking about book marketing instead of just doing what everybody else is doing.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is my favorite part of writing this book and having this conversation and even doing the companion course for the book is I want people to think about book marketing from four perspectives, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: The first perspective is what is your personality?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're an introvert and it pains you to go into a room of people that you don't know and introduce yourself and have small talk, hi, party of one, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then your book marketing is going to be different than the person who is an extrovert, has never met a stranger, and loves to go into a room of people that they don't know and talk to.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think about your personality as being the very first qualifier for how you look at book marketing, you bookmark it differently based on your personality.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: So this is 30,000 feet.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: The first one is your personality.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing is what is the role of the book in your business?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So where does the book fit in?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is the job of the book?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is the book designed to get you clients?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Are you giving your book away?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or is the book's job to earn you an income?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is it meant to earn you royalty income?
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna sell ebooks, paperbacks, hardcover, audiobooks?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: So where does the book fit in?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: What is it doing?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: What is the job of the book, right?
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: The every book has a job and what is the job of the book.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last two are the author's time availability and their budget.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: How much money do they?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you think about what's my personality, what's the job or role of the book?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: How much time do I have to market my books?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And how much money do I have to market my book, then you can put together your book marketing plan.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But you have to figure out those things first.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: What I think a lot of people do is they go, oh, Colleen Hoover.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And if, you know, for those just tuning in have never been under a rock and don't know who Colleen Hoover is, she's a fiction writer who fits into no box, has no specific genre, and has, I don't know, 45 of the top 100 books on the New York Times.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: Almost, yeah.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Time, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like she's just an incredible fiction writer who writes what she wants, writes prolifically, writes traditionally published books, indie published books, multiple publishers for her own publishing company, you know, indie published, and has no specific genre, fits no in box, makes a bunch of money, and it's confusing to everybody, except that she got really well known on book talk, which is a version of TikTok, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a little segment of TikTok.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people would just go, Well, I want to be Colleen Hoover.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna write whatever I want in any genre I want for traditional publishers, for any publishers, and I'm gonna go on book talk.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Never mind the fact that they don't like TikTok, they don't like book talk, they're never gonna do it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they don't write fiction, right?
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Their first name is George, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like never mind, never mind the fact that none of that fits their personality or their desired outcome.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: They just go, well, everybody says I have to do this.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody says I have to do X, Y, Y, and Z.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember a time when somebody said to me, You have to do TikTok.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, No, I really don't.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you do.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta do it.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I just, I really don't.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather chew glass.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just, it's not my personality.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to do it.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I have an identity and a really strong sense of self at this point that I can look at what other people are doing and go, I don't want to do that.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people have FOMO, fear of missing out.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I have Jomo.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I have the joy of missing out.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm so sorry I'm late.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to come, is like my favorite t-shirt.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, I want to give people permission to think about book marketing in a way that empowers them to customize their book marketing to themselves, to their book, to how much time they have and to how much money they have, and to run everything that they're doing through those four filters and to just feel free to design their book marketing action plan, their book map in a way that feels great for them because then they're going to want to do it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to be excited about book marketing when their book comes out, and then they're going to be excited about book marketing in year six.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, what would you say to uh to to the person listening right now?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because I always try to think, okay, what questions would people have at this point in the conversation?
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: A question that somebody might have is how do I deal with all this if I'm a major introvert?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a business thinker, I'm not a strategist.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to sit down and write books and create.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to have to mess with all this stuff.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: How can somebody move from being in that space to then being excited about their book marketing to thinking more like a business person to embracing the idea that you do have a business, if you have a book and you're exchanging it for money?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: How does somebody move to that kind of a place if they're not there already?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so that's what we got to visit reality.com just for a minute and say we would all like to write a book and just put it up on Amazon and have a million copies or 10 million copies sold with tens of thousands of five-star reviews and just this perennial seller that magically happened.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that happens.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Most of the time it doesn't.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think the first step is what you just said is to understand that you have a book.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: You wrote the book for a reason.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you write, if you write a nonfiction book, you're writing it to help people avoid pain, gain pleasure, or both.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And don't you want the right people who need your book and are searching for it or like putting in a keyword, like how to market a book, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do I market a book?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I want people who have books whose sales are abysmal or abysmal to them, not as good as they could be, or they're working on a book to understand how to think about book marketing, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to connect my book to people.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So in as much as I'm an introvert and I want to stay home and I want it to magically happen, I understand that I have to find ways to market my book that light me up.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I've that's what I've done.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a lightning strike, I'm not a unicorn, I have to get up and I have to work at it.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you when you kind of just accept that, then you go, okay, I accept it.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's reality.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do it.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: So now what is it that I'm gonna do?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any elements, and I don't want to get too far ahead because we've got a couple other questions to ask here.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Are there any elements of book marketing that people really have to do to be successful?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you mentioned TikTok.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Tick is not tick tock, tick.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: TikTok is not something ticks are what you have in southern Missouri, which is where I grew up.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: So TikTok is not something you have to do, but a lot of authors have used very successfully.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are but are there some elements of book marketing, some tactics or strategies that really it's gonna, it's gonna be hard to be successful without those elements?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, there are some things that are that are effective.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Podcast interviews obviously are very effective because you're getting it in the ears of people or or people watching YouTube videos or whatever that looks like, um, getting exposure to people who might not have otherwise experienced your work.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if being on podcasts freaks you out and scares you, then that's not gonna be your methodology.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so, no, I wouldn't say for something that someone has to do.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that you what you have to do are the things that you identify that that hit your four boxes, right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: That are your personality, the job of the book, your time and your money.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you actively seek those things out.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And there are hundreds of ways to market your book.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so surely there are going to be a few of those that are going to be effective that you will at least moderately enjoy or enjoy when the book sales come in, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you don't want to ask for someone to buy something until you ask them to buy and they say yes, and then you're like, Oh, that was awesome.
• 21:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: So right, I don't want to work out, but after my workout, I feel great.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it might seem painful until your bank account starts to grow.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that wasn't so bad.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow, somehow the the prize was worth the effort, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So no, I don't think that there's anything someone has to do.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I do though know that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are things that you have to do and you get to decide what they are.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then I will kind of jump ahead a little bit and say that if this is your first book and this is your first book that you're marketing, or this is the first time you are thinking about it in the way that I'm presenting, you will identify the things that work better than others.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you will instead of doing 10 things and you realize 80% of your results come from 20% of your effort, which are two things, you can say, Well, I'm going to just get 80% of my effort from two things.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to stop doing the other eight things that don't work.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you can just do the things that work.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you can learn through experience and learning what works and learning what doesn't work.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so then you will have to use less time and less money to do the things that fit with you and with your book and get better results.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So my book map looks much different today than it did when I was like, okay, I guess I have to do book talk or TikTok or Instagram stories or Facebook ads or all the things that I was like, I would rather die.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm going to do all the things.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realize, gosh, there are things that I really enjoy doing.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to do those things.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to double down on those things.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do more of the things that get me 80% of my results.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to let go of the other things and be okay with it.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'd be happy with 80% than miserable with 100% doing anything I hate.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: We'll return to the interview in just a moment, but first, a word from today's sponsor.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: As a writer, you not only want to write great books, you also want them to look professionally formatted and you want to give your reader a great experience.
• 23:46
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• 23:55
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• 24:01
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• 24:08
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• 24:17
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• 24:21
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• 24:25
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• 24:36
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• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's trivellum.com slash daily.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now back to our interview.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it strange how sometimes when it comes to writing books or book marketing or things around books, we we expect to have instant success with things.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: We try a couple things and they don't really work, but then we get discouraged and we quit.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: But we don't do that in other areas of life.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like nobody would expect to go take piano lessons.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then after four lessons, you're like, okay, I can play, I can play, you know, concert level piano.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: But for some reason, when it comes to books, so many of us just expect that it's going to be easy and it's going to be simple and we're going to have all this instant success.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that's because sometimes social media, we get that impression from social media where these people have instant success and we're seeing everybody's wins and we get discouraged whenever we we don't perceive that we're as successful as that person, those kinds of things.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very easy for us to see someone's present and not see all of the failures.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've sold a lot of books, but I've also gotten a lot of no's.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten a lot of five-star reviews.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: But if you go and look, there's some one-star reviews in there, right?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not it's not a Facebook status.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like, whoa, I got a one-star review today.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: But but I have 10,000 hours.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so four one hour lessons is not that this is math, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: But we know this is not the same.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: Four is not the same as 10,000.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you just know I'm going, my book is not an avocado, it doesn't expire.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's got evergreen information.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And you just get comfortable with the fact that you're going to market it today, tomorrow, and forever.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe someday you're going to love it so much you're going to write another book.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to be inspired to do something else.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a that's a book marketing strategy.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Don't shoot the messenger, right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then you just kind of settle in.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like, I don't work out.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is it like I'm not working, I'm not going to do a hundred more workouts and then phew, I'm done working out for my whole life.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm not going to eat 13 more meals and then okay, I'm done eating for the rest of my life.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just something that I do.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I get up, I work out, I take a shower, I brush my teeth, I market my books, I write, I write the words, rinse and repeat.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's not sexy, it's not exciting, but you know what's sexy and exciting are the results.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: When I get those royalty checks, or I get the, you know, the money that that comes in or the whatever, right?
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: The the book sales or the new clients or or the whatever, whatever, whatever is on the other side of that marketing effort, that's what's exciting.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's cool.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I just know that I just have to keep doing it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what you don't see, what you only see is this podcast interview.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't see all of the hours it took to write the books, to write the book, and all of the hours to go through the edits and all of the rewriting and then the proofreading and then checking the proof copy and then uploading the documents and having it be the wrong size, and then having, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you don't see all of the pain and suffering.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: All you see is ta-da, book release, boom, so exciting.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: A minute ago, you mentioned having multiple books, and I know people who have not written one book yet, that idea sounds really intimidating, but that kind of takes the pressure off, doesn't it?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: If if in your mind you can grasp the idea of writing multiple books, that way you don't have the pressure of feeling like you've I've got to pour everything into this one book, and this is gonna like define my whole life and and all that kind of jazz.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, don't take yourself too seriously.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good time.
• 28:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Just have a good time.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know how long you're here for.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy the ride, write the words, publish the words, market the words, rinse and repeat.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a good time.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Have a good time.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: That is something I see a lot in in the writing world.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you've seen this too, I'm sure, Honore.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: Where you have some writers who they've been working on a book for years, and it's like there's such a seriousness about it.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you I just I want to give those people a hug and just go, it's okay to lighten up.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a book.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like this isn't I don't I don't know what it's not, but it's like it's just a book.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this isn't like you're you're a heart doctor doing heart surgery and like it's life or death.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's just a book, just kind of relax.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we we are we are maybe helping people to change their lives, but there is no like oops, I clipped the wrong artery.
• 29:30
  unknown: Right?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, that's that's bad.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is not open heart surgery, this is not brain surgery, it's book writing, and it's awesome.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Being an author is the coolest thing, right?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, even heart surgeons are second to us, even though they like save lives and stuff, right?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're authors, we're way cooler at parties than heart surgeons.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um don't make a comment, right?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Don't send Kent any an email and tell him that I'm a terrible guest because I threw your uncle Joe, who's a heart surgeon, under the bus.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Write a box so he can be extra cool.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do think people take it very, very seriously and they get they get all wound up about it.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I I just don't.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't take myself that seriously.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, as we know.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I kind of wonder a lot of the books that we feel like are so important nowadays.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder how the authors felt about those books whenever they they wrote them.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: For example, I wonder if F.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Scott Fitzgerald, when he wrote The Great Gatsby, I wonder if he felt like I'm writing this book that's going to become like a national treasure and people are going to think it's this big important work of art.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And where I kind of wonder if he just was like, I'm just gonna write this story and put it out there and and then of course it becomes something important later on.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: But there is a sense in which we don't really get to choose which of our works that people remember.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's really for other people to decide, isn't it?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: In a way.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope he had a really good time.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: I hope he did.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would really hope that he just had a really good time writing that story and then was pleasantly thrilled by the reaction and response.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I know our time is running short here a little bit, and there's a lot of other good stuff in the in your book, You Must Market Your Book, that is really amazing.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: One final thing I want to ask about is this concept of marketing with your book, which is it's so mind-blowing.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I had never heard of that until I got to know you and kind of got it in your circle.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know if that concept is unique to you, but I had I'd certainly never heard of it before.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: Can you talk about what that is?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Marketing with your book and not just marketing the book itself.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so marketing your book is wanting people to buy your book in order to earn money, royalties, you know, a$20 bill someone gives you in exchange for your book at a book table, right?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Marketing with your book is taking the monetary exchange out of it because you're marketing something else.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll use you must write a book as an example.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to being a book that has sold a lot of copies, I have given away a lot of copies of that book.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And in exchange, people have taken courses.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: They have hired me to produce their book for them, or they have come and joined the Empire Builder's Mastermind.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: So while I have these beautiful hardcover special edition, you must write a book that are like$10 a piece, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: $10 author cost for the book.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I give them away because I know that they are going to potentially bring revenue to me.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: So marketing with your book, it's it's not a concept that I made up.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: It I think has become more commonplace for people to write a book to establish themselves as an expert or to further another career that they have.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they have a coaching career, they have a consulting career, they have a speaking career.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: You will often hear when a speaker is on stage, okay, and they have a book and they'll be selling books and signing them at the back of the room after.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's expected now, if you're a professional speaker, that you have at least one book and that your book is available after your speaking engagement.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: It it's kind of uh a two-way street.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: You use your book to get speaking engagements, and then at your speaking engagement, you sell your book and it's a way to increase your income from speaking.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people come to me and they say, Okay, I'm a coach and a speaker, and I now need to be an author.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I call that the trifecta of awesomeness.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: You have the the coaching and speaking or the consulting and speaking aspect of your business, and then you know that you need a book because a book is that thing that is going to elevate you as the expert, establish you as the authority in your space.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's interesting.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, a friend of mine, uh now this person will remain nameless, um, because I don't want to, and nothing it's against this person, but they put on Facebook actually this afternoon, they're speaking at some kind of success summit or conference or something uh in a few months.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I was looking through the the other speakers who were listed on the website at this conference.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it was funny because I noticed most of them are authors, but there were probably a third of them that were that didn't have an author in their title.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like they would say, you know, best-selling author, some of them, uh some of them would say like, you know, big time podcast host or success coach or whatever.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it was interesting because I noticed which ones were not authors.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: And there was, even though I'm in this writing space and stuff, and I do this for a living, I still there was a little part of me that was like, oh, well, that person's not an author.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're not quite as cool as the other people.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's funny because it does mean something.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's the the only thing I think that's cooler is being an Olympic gold medalist.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's super cool.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think if I was a gold medalist, I would constantly wear my gold medal.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: I would just be like, oh, this thing, this is from 1984.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see, do they have gold medals in like watching Yellowstone?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Then I'd I'd be a gold medalist.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really good at that.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: If there were if there were gold medals in like certain things, I would I would have a whole stack of them.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would be like winner every single time.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but yes, being an author really does make a difference.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in order for people to know that you're an author, you have to market your book just to bring us all, you know, just to kind of go full circle with our conversation.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: This has been a blast.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Honor, I always I was trying the other day to figure out okay, what is it about you that that I value so much, like being in your world and mastermind and everything?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I had to think about it for a while.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I was finally able to myself to articulate uh what it was that I feel whenever I'm kind of in your circle.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that whenever I'm around you, I feel stronger and I feel more confident.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, that is that is what it is.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was trying to put my finger on it for so long.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful for that because there are a lot of people listening right now who do not feel confident.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: They don't feel strong in their role as an author.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: They really are looking for somebody to give them some guidance.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you've given that to so many, I mean, million, literally millions of people through your books, you know, over the years and through all the things you're doing.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so grateful to be a part of your world.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm grateful for you making time on this episode today to share with us some tidbits about marketing.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so excited to help promote this book.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's really great and um grateful for you and all your amazing work.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, thank you.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm almost I'm almost speechless.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm almost I'm almost out of words, Kent.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I and and words, words are my game.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you do for a living.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yes.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I don't know what to say to that other than thank you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that is my desire is to help people to feel stronger and more confident.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so that means the world.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, and thank you for having me on to talk about you must market your book and thank you for reading you must market your book more than it's right.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can ask someone to buy your book, but really the big ask is for them to use their precious time because you can always get your money back, but you can't get your time back.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really appreciate not only you taking the time to read it, but also giving me time in this conversation and sharing me with your audience.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm grateful.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't that an amazing conversation with Honoree?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I learned a ton in this conversation.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's funny because I actually spend a lot of time with Honoree.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned in the episode intro, I'm in her, I'm actually in the second year of her Empire Builder's Mastermind.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I've taken, I think, every course that she offers pretty much.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've read a ton of her books.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we talk on a regular basis, sometimes multiple times a week, chatting back and forth or on calls or in the mastermind or whatever.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: And there are things that I still learn from her in every conversation.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: As you can see, she's an amazing person, but also an amazing expert on self-publishing and book marketing.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: And this is only a taste of what you get in her brand new book, You Must Market Your Book.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to encourage you to go ahead and grab that book.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is not a long book, which I think is actually a really, really good thing.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, a lot of times you you will get a book on book marketing or you'll get a resource on book marketing, and there will be like all this material in there that is really, really overwhelming.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the beautiful things about Honore's new book is that it's not that long.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's only like 110 pages or so, I think maybe even a little bit less.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So she has boiled it down to the essentials.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're going to read one book on book marketing this year, you must market your book is the one to get.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you can grab that on Amazon via a link in the show notes, and you can sign up for Honore's amazing email list at honorequarter.com.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: Many thanks to Honore for taking the time out to be a guest on this episode.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you as always.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: And for everybody who's listening, thanks for making the time to check out this episode.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: Hope it's helpful to you, and I'll see you next time.