Latest / Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide / Empathy, Disclosure & AI with special guest, Terry Persun (author)

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Empathy, Disclosure & AI with special guest, Terry Persun (author) · Curious Cat - where science & supernatural collide

0:34
SPEAKER_03: Welcome everybody.
0:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, today I am sitting in the hot seat by myself.
0:39
SPEAKER_03: Uh, Jesse's with us in spirit.
0:42
SPEAKER_03: He's out there writing his books.
0:44
SPEAKER_03: I promise to have an update soon if you don't get it before now, but I'll have links to him too, so you can keep supporting him.
0:52
SPEAKER_03: We love him so much.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: But today we have a friend of the show on, uh, Terry Person.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: And I always think of, oh, like, oh, you're so fantastic.
1:03
SPEAKER_03: He's an author.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: He is has his own entertainment engineering magazine, which is incredible.
1:10
SPEAKER_03: He um, I love him because he also supports so many fellow authors, even in their development journeys, whether he knows it or not.
1:20
SPEAKER_03: And uh, we talk AI, but we can talk about sci-fi and uh horror you name it.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: So, welcome to the show, Terry.
1:28
SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
1:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: It's what thanks for having me back.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: That's just so fun just to talk.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that's the the best part about these kinds of things.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's not a lecture, it's not, you know, we're not trying to train anybody for anything.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: No, just talking, which is great.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: It's like the most human of things.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: Um, and this is so off topic, but um, I just watch back rooms with my both of my grown daughters were here for my uh younger daughter's uh 23rd birthday.
2:06
SPEAKER_03: And she said, you guys have got to watch backrooms.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: Have you watched this yet?
2:11
SPEAKER_03: So I'll give you a little background and then tell you how it relates to this.
2:14
SPEAKER_03: It's made me feel it's like to me AI, where it's like there's things that I love about it, but it also reminds me why I love being a messy human.
2:24
SPEAKER_03: Well, backrooms you have to watch, and I'm not spoiling it, but it's based on a 4chan chat and um that where somebody posted a picture of inside an old kind of abandoned box store.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: I think it was in the Midwest originally, with like that yellowy fluorescent lighting up above.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: So everything has kind of that sickly jaundice cast to it, right?
2:51
SPEAKER_03: And then everything kind of looks the same.
2:54
SPEAKER_03: You can almost smell the kind of moist, moldy carpet down below.
2:58
SPEAKER_03: And but it's like a room and a room and a room, like an abandoned mall.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: And it just grew from there of like, why do I remember this from a dream?
3:08
SPEAKER_03: And it felt like there was this thing that was building on 4chan that then jumped to YouTube.
3:14
SPEAKER_03: So the person behind the movie backrooms, he was a young man at the time and he had this YouTube channel and he dove deep into it.
3:24
SPEAKER_03: I think his name on YouTube is like Kevin Pixel, and he did these movies.
3:30
SPEAKER_03: Well, the reason and he took these graphics of photos that felt like liminal spaces that you could just get lost in with this like yellowy wallpaper, this strange, these strange doors, these staircases that went into the end of a wall instead of continuing on, where you could mentally get lost.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: But the reason he created it is because at a young age, he had very crippling um arthritis.
3:57
SPEAKER_03: So, in a way, it was like this mental exercise to can I find my way back through in the maze.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: So it's become so popular instead of going to college, and he's doing really well physically, but instead of going to college, he got these like offers from these big horror studios and other places that wanted to make backrooms into a movie.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: And so that's what rolled out this summer.
4:23
SPEAKER_03: And you can watch it everywhere.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: Um, I think we rented it on Amazon Prime, but um it's like a collective remembrance.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: And he has snippets from his YouTube videos on there, but then it's like you have the whole story unfold.
4:42
SPEAKER_03: But what it is is like it gets you debating.
4:46
SPEAKER_03: It's one of those movies where you're like, what is it?
4:48
SPEAKER_03: Are they already dead?
4:49
SPEAKER_03: Is it a liminal space?
4:51
SPEAKER_03: Is it a collective consciousness, like a like a tulpa that we've all created this place with these walls?
4:59
SPEAKER_03: There are certain things like there was this one scene with this blue wallpaper and then this like um staircase that goes down to nothing.
5:08
SPEAKER_03: It's like an Escher drawing in a way, but kind of this weird twist to it.
5:14
SPEAKER_03: And when I saw that in the movie, I went, I dreamt that like years ago.
5:19
SPEAKER_03: It's a place I got stuck in a dream and I was really frustrated.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: And it was shocking.
5:25
SPEAKER_03: And so we've we've been having these meaty conversations, my daughters and I, ever since we watched it.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: It reminds me of AI because there's this part to it where we remember and people will get captured in this backroom space, even if they um leave it.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: A part of them is remembered by this space, but it's remembered in a weird way.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Like the eyes aren't quite right, the nose isn't quite right.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: So it ends up being every time it's remembered, re-remembered, there's like three sets of eyes, three sets of noses, like six fingers.
5:59
SPEAKER_03: And it reminds me of AI because it's trying to parrot human beings in a sense and predict us based on what it's already ingested.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: And it's almost there, but in some cases, it's like slightly wrong.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: So it just reminds me how much I love being a messy, unpredictable human being.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: Is that weird?
6:22
SPEAKER_00: That is interesting.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: It sounds like an interesting show.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it supposed to be horror?
6:27
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is definitely supposed to be horror.
6:30
SPEAKER_03: And in fact, like the horror industry is coming forward and just he's 21 now, the young man behind it, the cast of actors behind it are incredible, like top-notch.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: And um, the horror industry is coming forward and saying, thank you for saving us and for keeping us real.
6:51
SPEAKER_03: Because that was the other thing.
6:53
SPEAKER_03: It's like when you see it, and even go on YouTube and check out the the movies that the mini movies that led up to this because they're so worth watching.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: And I don't want to spoil it at all, but um the he the maker behind it, he said, I don't want to use any AI.
7:12
SPEAKER_03: Everything's intentional.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: And so there will be pieces that remind you of like the hallway in the shining, and the wallpaper will have subtle subtleties to it.
7:23
SPEAKER_03: The TV screens and what's reflected will have um things that you catch and nothing is on accident.
7:31
SPEAKER_03: It's all just like through these human eyes, and it's a very small cast because it's contained within this world, but then it with that it's it's described as it's a basement that exists underneath a furniture store that's mostly out of business.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: So that's what you'll get for an explanation.
7:50
SPEAKER_03: And it goes from there.
7:52
SPEAKER_03: But it's just been incredible because it's just really been reminding me of we aren't predictable.
7:59
SPEAKER_03: And you and I and every single person that's listening, we do have our own perspective.
8:05
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know how your eyes and how your ears um give you the feedback of the colors in the room and the space that you're in right now.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: I can empathize and I can try to picture it, but to actually see behind your eyes, I'll never get that.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: And vice versa.
8:26
SPEAKER_03: So everybody, we could be sitting side by side at the Mariners game with hundreds of people next to us, and none of us have the exact same view of the field.
8:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's why I just keep pinching myself because it just gives me hope.
8:43
SPEAKER_03: We're not gonna get lost in the AI sauce, the tech sauce, because it's a tool that we're using and it's gonna be used well in some instances and not great in others, but we're still gonna be uniquely human beings and it's a very special thing to be.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: So that's my TED talk.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I like that.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I I agree a hundred percent.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that, well, everything we read, we know that AI lies to you and cheats and does all those things that just to solve whatever problem they think you gave them.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's no integrity, there's nothing else in there.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: When you said, you know, everything in this is is intentional, I think everything that's humanly intentional is just so different than what's intentional from a machine.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and of course it would be right, the output would be different.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And it would be, like you said, different for every one of us.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: We don't see the same way.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: What we've done is we've learned to call the same thing the same thing.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: So if I look at it and it's it's green and you called it red, and yeah, I grew up saying, Oh, that green thing is now red, it would be this it would be still because we don't know, right?
9:59
SPEAKER_00: We can't see behind each other's eyes.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: That's so fascinating to me.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: So this is why I write.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was just gonna ask you about that.
10:09
SPEAKER_00: For that's the very reason.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: I think people so are so so uh interesting how they see the world, how they choose to do what they think is best.
10:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I believe that everybody does this.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: I think that even the person who's out killing somebody, they think that it's best for either that person or themselves.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: There's something in them that feels like this is the right thing for me to do now.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: And we can't understand that from other people.
10:41
SPEAKER_00: We don't know what that means.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: And so when we have these conversations with each other and somebody says, Oh, you know, look what happened over there, and everybody's like, Oh, that's terrible.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: You think I often think, is it terrible?
10:55
SPEAKER_00: If I get inside of their head, is it better for them?
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it a relief?
11:01
SPEAKER_00: Is it better for them this way?
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Is it is there something and we know that when something happens, no matter what it is, you have all those same, all those feelings together.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: So it can be horrible and a relief at the same time.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: And hey, I can't do that.
11:20
SPEAKER_03: No, and even having multiple feelings at the same time, um, uh multiple emotions at the same time, like you're saying, that are in conflict.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: It's like as a writer, you have to be so aware that you're not spitting out what would be a relief to the reader, but following a path of the character you developed.
11:44
SPEAKER_03: And it's not pretty at times.
11:47
SPEAKER_03: You're like, ah, I didn't realize that's where this was going, but rest in peace, main character, or whatever the you know what I'm saying?
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I know exactly what you're saying.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: I I was talking to somebody recently.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: There's a woman who's been emailing me.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: She's she says, I'm she always says that I'm so good at character development.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you are.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you are having this mental thing where just what you said.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Once I know that character, yeah, if I switch from this character to this character, I switch.
12:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just a it's totally different for that.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And when you write that way, I think of actors, I think, you know, you're one person.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you're you know you're a murderer in one movie and a romance that you're somebody else.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: So you you adapt to that.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: But when you're writing a novel, you've got all those pieces.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: You've got to become every one of those in a way that is believed.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, people have to read this and go, oh my God, how can somebody do that?
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Thank goodness this other good guy here is is helping out.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: And here you are as the author, you're both those people.
13:04
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a thing that a lot of people don't understand what you go through like writing these things.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: And if I have, depending on whose point of view I'm in that morning, I it can adjust my day.
13:16
SPEAKER_03: I was just I was just gonna say, so I when I started writing, I would walk, I had my uh like a notebook with me with a pen.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: And whenever I was waiting for my kids to come out of school or whatever, I had writing is such a solitary pursuit.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: The only company you can really have are those characters.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: But I found that I couldn't slip into the suit of those characters in a convincing way with my kids around.
13:43
SPEAKER_03: Because you're right, sometimes like I was in the head of this very dark character who bubbles under the surface of all three of my uh trilogy books.
13:54
SPEAKER_03: And she's this very sinister witch, and she's doing very dark, sinister secret magic.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: And I had to go deep with her, but I sure as hell couldn't be like a smiley mom for my kids.
14:08
SPEAKER_03: How was your day?
14:10
SPEAKER_03: When I've been in that suit all day, I had to have an, you know, a real period of time, a block of time that I was like unplugged from the mom.
14:22
SPEAKER_03: And I agree with you, it's a very solo pursuit because when you were saying you have to be convincing to the audience, we have to be convincing to ourselves first, right?
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Yes, and with the mean, like like the voices in our heads, you know, it's it's tough.
14:41
SPEAKER_03: It's tough to do.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: It's a really hard job.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: It is a hard job.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: The the interesting thing is that it's it allows us as humans then to go inside and look at things from different angles.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Nobody else can do.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: You're right, they can't do this.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: They look at everything from their perspective.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: Writers, I believe, and I know so many of them, right?
15:05
SPEAKER_00: You can go into all these other perspectives.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: And when you do something, you think, Wow, what if if I were that person, how would I do this?
15:16
SPEAKER_00: Where I start to think, when I make a decision, how does it really truly affect the other people?
15:23
SPEAKER_00: And the other people, I can get inside their head.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know them.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: We started this, I don't know them specifically, I can't know them, but I do know how to get inside of other heads.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: And I think what if that person believed this, even though I made this decision?
15:40
SPEAKER_00: What if that person, right, thinks this way about the decision, even though I feel more strongly in this other direction?
15:48
SPEAKER_00: It allows you to, I guess, be very, very resilient with life and deeply empathetic.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Deeply empathetic.
15:58
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
15:59
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I and that's it, it kind of explains experiences I've had where I will come across a recently I came across a giant rattlesnake that was dying on the trail.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: And um, I, you know, I did know the circumstances if a horse uh and a rider, the horse stepped on it.
16:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but it was dying.
16:21
SPEAKER_03: And I know that I had an experience of I know rattlesnakes are dangerous to humans, to others, but I felt like this part of Colorado was losing a guardian who had silently watched me hike by how many times?
16:39
SPEAKER_03: And it recessed into a cove just to stay safe, how many times before?
16:43
SPEAKER_03: And um, I had walked past it.
16:46
SPEAKER_03: It's a guardian of that Morrison formation, and I couldn't help but cry for it.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: And I told my husband, and he's like, but it could have bitten somebody.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, it could have, but I'm still somebody has to cry for the rattlesnake.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: And I don't care if it's popular, but I think that's part of being able to, you know, that deeper empathy.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: It's like a muscle that we can grow and build if we do right, because we practice seeing what it would be like from a different perspective, maybe that we wouldn't be comfortable even debating or talking about in public.
17:23
SPEAKER_03: We can kind of practice and like build those muscles.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, look at it.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: If you were if you were that rattlesnake and think about how um what we look like to them.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: So they're afraid, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: They're just fighting back, they're just afraid and need to protect themselves.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's such a good point.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: You fight back, and so they don't know that we have an intention or no intention or anything else, they don't have the same capabilities that we do about that thing.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So if you can avoid them, if you can let them be, yeah, then let them be.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: I think you know, we have um gosh, we had a problem recently.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: So we you know, my wife has uh nonprofit for retired career courses, and yeah, we have a couple donkeys, and we have we have a new donkey which had died, and then we we got it from a farm, and that farm had two other donkeys.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: The cougar actually killed one of them, so he was afraid the cougar would come back the next night and get the next one.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: So we took that donkey to our farm and we have all this stuff going on trying to do the right thing.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but at the same time, the cougar is doing its right thing.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: So if we look at all our characters like this, no matter what happened, they bring to the party, and it it's interesting to me too.
19:03
SPEAKER_00: I love thinking about these things.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: So I get tired of people having to have an excuse to make decisions.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, why did you do that?
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know what?
19:14
SPEAKER_00: I changed my mind.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: This is what happened, and I think sometimes that we forget that we have these rights to choose as human beings.
19:26
SPEAKER_03: You're so right.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like uh we do have a right.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about like you know, Jesse.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: Jesse's like, I need to be doing more with my books and going back to cinematography and things.
19:40
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, I don't have a right to hold on to that older version of him that loved him as my co-host.
19:47
SPEAKER_03: I loved him being in the chair next to me, but I don't want to hold on to that because I'm his friend.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to embrace what he wants to be right now.
19:57
SPEAKER_03: And if we like often people react to our changes and our choices, like when we make a change, and it's not their job to police it.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: You know, I have a niece that um she is a beautiful human being, and she was like, I didn't identify with how I was born.
20:16
SPEAKER_03: And it's not my job to say, hey, niece, you were, you know, you were born.
20:21
SPEAKER_03: And I remember this.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: It's like, it's my job if I want to have a relationship to say, well, welcome to my life.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: I love you.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: I may make missteps, but I love and I embrace who you are now.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: And I let that go, the other stuff, except for the memories together and the love together.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: It's it's usually we're spending so much time mitigating someone's reaction to our change, of course.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's just that everybody expects it to be cause and effect, but it isn't always cause and effect.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to have a bad childhood to be an e an evil person.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: You can have a good childhood and be an evil person, you can have a neutral childhood and be an evil person.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: And what we do is we constantly try to connect those dots, and those dots aren't always apparent.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: What we were saying from the beginning.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: So we're carrying this conversation through that.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: I can't possibly know you ever.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: And so all I can do is guess, and we can communicate, we can talk, and you can tell me things, but I can't even know if that's how you feel that five minutes from now.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Right this moment, you feel like this, and five minutes from now you don't.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: We know this.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: It's so crazy to me that we understand that throughout the day our emotions change and change and change and change based on what happened to us, what we were thinking.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, how many times do we have to hear this, right?
21:47
SPEAKER_00: That um if you are in a bad mood or things are going poorly for you, then think positive thoughts and it'll get you out of there.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, sure.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: There are all kinds of things I always tell people.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Um on your own in your own room, dance.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Be unhappy and be dancing.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: There's something about it for me at least, I don't know about other people.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Same.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: But for me, if I'm dancing in my office, nobody's around, nobody can see me, I can't be unhappy.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: So there are ways that we can work within ourselves to understand other people and brings us back to that resilience so that when they're going through a rough time or they're changed, they've changed that you can understand it and accept it.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: And all those things, of course, are great for our writing.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: They totally are.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: And that deeper empathy is great as a human being because you know, it all comes down to everybody's going through real stuff.
22:53
SPEAKER_03: It's just some people are better at hiding it.
22:56
SPEAKER_03: You know, it that's the thing.
22:59
SPEAKER_03: And um, you uh I think that there's a thing, I think there really is toxic positivity where it's like you can't just shine up a turd all the time, right?
23:11
SPEAKER_03: But but it's just when we encounter human beings to to maybe have a tenderness towards them of like, I'm a I'm just gonna assume that they've got stuff going on and they don't mean to cut me off.
23:24
SPEAKER_03: They didn't mean to shove past me because it's really important for them to get to the cashier first, whatever the things are that happen in the day.
23:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't think it's personal.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: I think that they're going through their own thing.
23:37
SPEAKER_03: And if we, you know, especially maybe it's a woman thing that we're even more prone to doing is that we blame ourselves.
23:44
SPEAKER_03: Like, why did I bring that out in somebody?
23:47
SPEAKER_03: Did I hurt their feelings?
23:48
SPEAKER_03: Did I make them feel unsafe?
23:50
SPEAKER_03: Did I like, you know, whatever the things are?
23:53
SPEAKER_03: And it's so great to pull back and go, it's not personal.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: It's never personal.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: You're going through whatever they're going through, and you just happen to be there and you get to experience it with them or not.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: And you can argue with them, you can fight with them, you can do all kinds of things, you can try to fix them, yeah.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Waste of everybody's time, you know.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So the best thing to do is to be authentically who you are, yeah, and hope that they're being authentically who they are.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So that if if there's something going on, I know people, you know, they go through a hard time.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, we know.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: We know people who do everything.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: So somebody goes through a hard time, and there are those people who will use it to get pity.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And just drain you.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Just try to drain you.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:46
SPEAKER_00: And so it's your job to do one of two things.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: You can either block that energy from draining you, which is easy to do, just listen.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Which is what they're asking for anyway.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:00
SPEAKER_00: Or you can say, look, you know, you're you're living in this, I think, a little bit more than you need to.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's draining you.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: And when you're close to me, it's starting to drain me too.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Maybe maybe there's another way you can go about this.
25:17
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
25:18
SPEAKER_00: I learned something years ago uh when you do these things to say, if it were my choice, if it were you, right?
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Because I can't talk from you.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: No.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: If it was me who lost my favorite pet, I might I might just sit in a room and grieve for three days and not eat or anything else and just get it done and try to remember all the wonderful things.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: That's how I might do it.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: You do it.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Because then they start to look at themselves as well.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And instead of just trying to offload that pain and offload their needs, you know, I need somebody to feel my pain, and I can't feel your pain.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: I never can.
26:02
SPEAKER_03: No.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Um my wife would go through depressions, and I remember would sit and I would tell her, Look, I cannot go with you.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: But I can sit with you and hold your hand.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly the most I can do for you.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: And I will do that until the end of the year.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: But I can't go with you.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think knowing that or being able to say that is important for us.
26:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, and and it's just because as much as it looks like they want you to go with them to the better place, they really don't.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: They need somebody to be strong.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I've had that too, where loved ones had this deep depression.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: And it's depression is a womb.
26:51
SPEAKER_03: I I suffer from depression.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: Depression is a little womb that cool, you know, brings you in, and it just feels, and then you have more and more things that you're behind on or you've not shown up for that now.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: It's like it's not even safe to come out of the womb of depression.
27:09
SPEAKER_03: But as on the other side of it, again, and it goes back to the character development, is the more you can deeply you can empathize, it's like I can try to be the little light.
27:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like, do you want to go take a drive?
27:22
SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to drive us around?
27:24
SPEAKER_03: And, you know, and it's like no, and I'll get 45 no's.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: And then the 46th uh ask will be, you know, a nod.
27:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:36
SPEAKER_03: And then we'll do that and something shifts.
27:40
SPEAKER_03: But it's, you know, just finding different ways and never, you know, letting go of that.
27:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the deep empathy is so important, more important than ever right now.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, going to the science, this seems like a jump, but there's this young man that developed this tech that I was dying to talk to you about because I just read about it this morning.
28:04
SPEAKER_03: And he was thinking about people suffering from cerebral palsy and Parkinson's.
28:10
SPEAKER_03: So he developed it's this um, oh gosh, what's it called?
28:15
SPEAKER_03: You know, that they wear, it's a retainer like they wear for braces.
28:19
SPEAKER_03: He so he developed it with dental tech, and you use your tongue to uh be a mouse.
28:25
SPEAKER_03: It's your mouse pad.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: He's using it for 11 hours to navigate his computer, his phone.
28:34
SPEAKER_03: And um, Apple Tim Cook heard wind of this and offered him millions and millions of dollars.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: He said, I want it to be open source because people can 3D print this and create this for under$47 and the accessibility.
28:50
SPEAKER_03: So he was thinking, I don't know the background.
28:54
SPEAKER_03: Like if there were someone in his life that that couldn't use their hands or feet to be able to navigate the tech now, but he obviously was struck by that and thought, but they can use their tongues on the roof of their mouth as a mouse pad.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: See, I thought, love this.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: You need to send me that link.
29:14
SPEAKER_03: I will, I promise, or your entertainment engineering.
29:17
SPEAKER_03: I will, I promise.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that is great.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: I love those kind of things.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: You know, we we have compassion for each other beyond everything, and we just have to let that happen.
29:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, that goes back to the whole AI thing.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Why are we not using it for things like that?
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Why are we not asking it the key questions?
29:38
SPEAKER_00: Why do we want to spend what is whatever it is to ask it some stupid question that it's gonna lie to us about anyway?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um everything I look at with AI anymore, I have to research.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: It takes up more time.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I just sometimes I just don't even bother.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: I I just why would I use AI if it can't tell me the truth, if it can't be if all it's doing is going out to the internet and finding out what everybody else believes.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: I keep telling people, look, you know, the biggest company in the world, let's just say let's say Elon has his trillions and trillions of dollars.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: And so what Elon needs to do, let me let me be honest here.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes, please sit down and create a multitude, number of websites with his ideas and his thoughts and his everything, so that when the IA goes out and looks for stuff, that's where they find it.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, find it there.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh we what we went around and we looked 20 billion times in nanoseconds, and this is what we found.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And Elon sitting back on, yeah, that's what I told you.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I told you to find.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what we're running into right now.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: We are if we if we pay attention, was it MIT or was it Caltech?
31:04
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: I read all these newsletters, but then we get research about ask the same question to five different AIs and get five different answers.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the same question to the same AI on a different day, you get a different answer.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So, why would I trust AI more than I would trust you to tell me what the best trails are in Colorado?
31:28
SPEAKER_00: You've walked those trails.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: AI is just going to go online and say, This is where everybody says it's nice, you know?
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they would.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: And and the other thing is like, I, you know, a person would be honest and say, I've only done a fraction of them, but of the ones I've done, here's the ones that I love.
31:47
SPEAKER_03: What are you looking for?
31:48
SPEAKER_03: AI, what I got a little nervous about AI.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've been a little bit like I'm very jaded, I'm very guarded, I have to do research with what they give me as well.
32:00
SPEAKER_03: But when they did studies that said, if you say, excuse me, very intelligent AI model or whatever it's called, if you compliment it in your question, you get a more comprehensive answer in response.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: That's disturbing, isn't it?
32:18
SPEAKER_03: It's disturbing.
32:20
SPEAKER_03: It's disturbing.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: It's like this should not be the case.
32:24
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I wanted before we um forget, I before I forget, because you're an author, what did you think about the story a couple weeks ago about the AI groups like shredding books?
32:37
SPEAKER_03: They were basically ingesting the books.
32:39
SPEAKER_03: They had to rip them up to scan them, they were saying, and then they were just shredding them.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: Have you read this?
32:48
unknown: Yes.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what it sounds like.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: Especially when um people were like calling them out on Twitter and other places, because there are scanners, thank goodness for engineers, that develop those scanners that have this like almost like a pyramid, and you lay the book down so it does no harm to the book or the binding to scan both sides of the page.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: So you don't have to shred it.
33:13
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
33:14
SPEAKER_03: I was hoping you had answers.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's so funny to me is that so as an engineer, and they say, Oh, we're trying to copy all these books.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: I'd say, well, just download all the ebooks and then convert them into text.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: Done.
33:28
SPEAKER_00: Done.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Why did we take a physical book and try to make a copy and tear it up or whatever else?
33:34
SPEAKER_03: I don't understand it.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: Well, no wonder people think it's like nefarious.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: So they really do think, well, it's because they want their collective summary of the the actual work of art or nonfiction to be the truth.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: And they can't have um the fingerprints of the old ones.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: It makes you feel like that.
33:55
SPEAKER_03: It's like a a lot of them don't have a metadata footprint because they've never been in ebook.
34:01
SPEAKER_03: And so they're like vestiges of like think 1970s Sunset Magazine cookbooks.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: I mean, things that are like one-offs that really, so it just reminds me, okay, I have, I'm gonna just take the books I have and make sure I know where they're going.
34:18
SPEAKER_03: Um, if I'm not gonna use them myself or value them myself, but I'll preserve them because there could be fewer and fewer copies of them out there.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's amazing, isn't it?
34:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, you're absolutely right.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: This is the whole thing with um, you know, certain authors who are well known and have been signing books for years and years and years.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: You can go out into almost any used bookstore and find a signed copy of their book.
34:43
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: So, and they're three dollars.
34:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know it's crazy.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: It it's not worth a whole lot.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: And yet there are those authors, like you're saying, that are gone and only signed a handful of books.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Those books, even if they're obscure books, are worth lots of money because because there are so few of them around.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: And so what they're doing, they'll never get rid of all of them.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, I look around all the used bookstores and online places where you can get books from the 1800s and 20s and 30s, you know.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and so many people nowadays are not so many people, a few publishers out there are are reprinting those old books, you know, because they're sort of thank goodness.
35:33
SPEAKER_03: I think that they're able to, like some of them.
35:36
SPEAKER_03: Um, I forget, I just picked up one.
35:39
SPEAKER_03: It was like the book, um, the book of Ezekiel.
35:43
SPEAKER_03: And because it's like the first time it was published has been so long ago that it's out, it's fallen out of copyright.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: So then people are able to say, Well, I'm gonna do my own version of it with my own art or whatever, my own um, you know, book setting, my own uh book design and my own art.
36:01
SPEAKER_03: And so then they're able to do that, but I'm always so grateful that people did that because some sometimes you'll have an old uh cover that doesn't resonate anymore.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: It has some vestiges of that time period that I'm not comfortable with.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: And it's like, I like the newer version of the cover or whatever.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad people do that.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: They're heroes.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love those kinds of things.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: We find you go online for any of the course, I read a lot of science fiction.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: If you go on for any of the classic science fiction, you'll find five, six, seven different covers.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:33
SPEAKER_00: All those books on what year it was published, just like you think.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I think it well, so regular books are, and I do all my books, they have the same cover and ebook and and paperback and all that, but I really don't think that that's necessary.
36:53
SPEAKER_00: I do it because it's easy.
36:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, same.
36:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can see that.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: I can understand that.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but in old days, the hardback had a different cover than the paperback, than the you know, ebook, and so there were tons of different covers out there for the same books.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: In fact, I've ordered a couple of used books on Amazon where the cover that they show on Amazon is not the cover I got, which is really interesting.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is, but it's a different year, right?
37:21
SPEAKER_00: So I get a different year when it was republished or you know, it's third edition or whatever.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: So it's not the cover that I saw.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I want the cover they I saw.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: I know.
37:33
SPEAKER_03: Same, it's like that's the one I wanted, so I'm a little disappointed.
37:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's really interesting to me.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, of course, they had another thing again about another publisher.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: Who was that?
37:45
SPEAKER_03: That again, I think oh no, they got caught using AI.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh good lord.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: They canceled that book because you can't copyright something that's made up of everybody.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: Well, we're seeing that kind of drama play out with the AI model versus that, you know, they're suing another AI model.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: So China's moonshot is like they scooped up what anthropic's fable, and they're like, we're gonna use that to ask it questions from different IPOs, from my understanding.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: I may have this completely wrong, but they're like, we're gonna build our model based on uh pinging anthropic's fable, but from all different IPOs that we're asking, we have holes in our knowledge base, so we're gonna build it this way.
38:36
SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden, anthropic's really pissed off.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: They're like, let's get our federal government after them.
38:41
SPEAKER_03: It's like, uh, that's isn't that that like Spider-Man meme where they're looking at each other going, what you're the same.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: Because that's how they took all of our stuff to build themselves.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: They stole everything.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: What is gonna happen with this lawsuit?
38:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's just it.
38:57
SPEAKER_00: The internet is the internet.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: If you're gonna put your AI on the internet, I'll just talk to your AI and download as much as I can, create my own thing.
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And we're going on and on about all this stuff when I I still believe that from day one, you know, the only reason we have any of this is because of machine learning.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: If we just train things to do the one thing they need to do, and we train it from all angles, then it can do something.
39:28
SPEAKER_00: But when we're trying to do this genius from all things, you know, it can be it is not a magic box, it can't do all this, it's impossible.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: What is that?
39:41
SPEAKER_03: What is that saying?
39:42
SPEAKER_03: It's like um uh jack of all trades, master of none.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's AI.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: That's you're right.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: So these large language models are just master and none.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Why are we talking to it?
39:59
SPEAKER_00: Why are we asking it questions?
40:01
SPEAKER_00: And the whole sycophantic thing is so yeah, strange to me that it's so disturbing.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: I could not, I would not be friends with somebody who was constantly kissing my ass.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, it would get so old so fast, just so fast, wouldn't it?
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Stop, just leave it alone for God's sake, you know.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, only you, your wonderfulness would say such a wonderful thing and be so genius.
40:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, it's so disturbing.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
40:36
SPEAKER_03: I did read there was a tweet that I read earlier.
40:39
SPEAKER_03: I had to take a screenshot of it just for our conversation, and it says, I'm starting a petition to no longer refer to AI art as AI art, but instead as computer-rendered artificial pictures or crap.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: I do too.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Is that so so I but this is what we need though.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: We need those memes to get out there so that people, everybody, the general public starts to understand that.
41:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when I see the noise that these data centers make, yeah.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it disrupts the the environment.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the water, the like you're saying, the noise, just the general animals around it, people.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people, but it's just horrible, horrible stuff.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Why are we doing this to ourselves so that five people can make another billion dollars?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: And no, I suggest what I love this that we we take all of their money, all that top one percent, yeah, all of their money and put it back into the economy and help all the regular people and do this one thing they can have and eat and be anything they want for the rest of their life.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: They don't have to spend a dollar, they can eat anywhere they like, they can go down and they can pick up a boat.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: You can only have one boat.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: If you want a big boat, go get the big boat.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Just give them whatever it is they want.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: There are five of them for God's sake.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: Yes, just go do that, and the rest of us will just survive with a little bit more dignity, yes, capabilities, and move forward from there.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: And and you've said it.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: I think that they're, you know, we're gonna find out later when the books are written what has actually been happening to us without our consent is is that they had to make it too big to fail.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: People keep talking about 2008 and the big bubble back then for a reason because they're like, they're not turning profits.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: Microsoft, it was revealed that they said that they, you know, had a profit, but actually 70% of it was based is is uh dependent on open AI actually come, you know, becoming a stock in the stock market.
43:11
SPEAKER_03: And they're hoping it gets a trillion dollar valuation.
43:15
SPEAKER_03: And but it's not looking like that.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: But everything is like fictional monopoly money.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: And I think they're trying to make it too big to fail.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: But really, where the secret sauce is gonna be, I'm really feeling this way, is when people go, I'm gonna make my own AI model and I'm gonna sandbox it for this industry.
43:36
SPEAKER_03: So the medical community, I mean, we, you know, we're seeing amazing um improvements with cancer um care, like going to remission because of some of these developments, as they're able to look at the genetics of that actual cancer cell and have this bespoke therapy that we uh brings you into.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: A remission.
44:01
SPEAKER_03: So, but that's not the large language model that's the behemoth.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: That's I think of the Navy battleship that's very hard to turn around.
44:11
SPEAKER_03: That isn't the secret sauce.
44:12
SPEAKER_03: The secret sauce are these smaller kind of um elite niche kind of um models that will be created.
44:20
SPEAKER_03: And I think the actual big behemoths know the writing on the wall.
44:25
SPEAKER_03: They're like moon, China's moonshot is going, we can do this faster than anybody if you and we're gonna make it accessible to everybody.
44:34
SPEAKER_03: You know, we're just putting it out there.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: And so it's gonna kind of, I think that there was so much happening in the industry where um some people have said about like open AI, um, that they had a model that was like um met meth, meth addiction.
44:51
SPEAKER_03: Basically, let's give them a little bit and a little bit with these chat bots to get them addicted to it, because then we'll have this, they'll have to pay for the subscriber service, but they can't make a decision without it.
45:04
SPEAKER_03: So they'll pay anything.
45:06
SPEAKER_03: And I think that they really they this thing has been created and they didn't really know what the final steps would be.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: And then they keep overhyping, overblowing what it's going to be because they keep wanting to pass around this billion billion dollar bag of money to each other.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: But it's I can't feel anything that's real in these large models, but these smaller models give me hope.
45:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's a UW professor, she works at the um Paul Allen Institute of um across the water from me, and she does that as a part-time gig.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: And she was on Bill Gates's podcast a few years ago.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: And back then she said it's not the large models, it's the medium to small models that are going to be agile, that are gonna be easy to customize for different industries that'll be the most impactful.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I agree 100%.
46:06
SPEAKER_00: Right now, you see it in a lot of industries that are software industries because they they create whole sections that oh, that's what you want to do?
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we can do that faster and easier right here.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: You just kind of plug this in and you're good.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: And it's just we just I think what's interesting to me too is like this kid you were talking about earlier who's yeah who did the uh mouse pad on your uh for the yeah, the little um retainer.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Retainer, yeah, sorry.
46:36
SPEAKER_00: So I always think of the the kids coming up right now are brilliant.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: They've got the technology to do pretty much anything they want.
46:44
SPEAKER_00: The printers, the machines, the software, everything is just right there.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think we're going to see more of things like this.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Kids are coming up with better ways, faster ways, cheaper ways.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I was um uh maybe a year or two ago, there was a a kid in his twenties who did a prosthetic hand was doing prosthetic uh wow, and he was doing it for like a third of the cost of the big companies who were trying to sell these things for three thousand dollars.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he said, you know, these little kids that need these are they're gonna need a different size every two years.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: You can't spend three thousand dollars every two years to do this.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: No said, I figured out this way to do it cheaper.
47:32
SPEAKER_00: What a cool thing, and that's what this is about.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:37
SPEAKER_00: So when you have somebody like this who says$45, you can do this.
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't have to have you don't even have to have hands or feet.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: You don't you can just do these things.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: This is the brilliance of what we have and allowing people to have dignified, normal lives.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, better and better.
48:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: My husband had a um, I told him about the um the mouse pad with the retainer.
48:08
SPEAKER_03: And he said, I love that he's gonna go open source.
48:11
SPEAKER_03: He said, My only concern, because he comes to it as a um, you know, he has his own company.
48:15
SPEAKER_03: He does um buildings, you know, that are portable buildings that go all over the world.
48:20
SPEAKER_03: And he said, My only concern with it being open sourced, yay for open source, but how many people on the other end have the, you know, knowledge base and the 3D printer and the things they need to actually make it happen?
48:34
SPEAKER_03: He said, so it could be worth making a partnership, have it open source, but also make a partnership with somebody like Apple and say, I want to limit how much you can charge for it.
48:46
SPEAKER_03: I want to try to get it so that um, you know, I want it to be accessible to people.
48:51
SPEAKER_03: So you can't make, you know, it's not gonna be a thousand dollar instrument in people's people need this.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: Let's see if we can get um insurance to pay for it, medical insurance in a lot of cases, but let's not inflate the costs.
49:05
SPEAKER_03: And and so he could have those say that say in a company that he decides to partner with.
49:13
SPEAKER_03: So he can do both things at once.
49:16
SPEAKER_03: I did too.
49:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a great idea.
49:18
SPEAKER_03: I know that was my husband.
49:19
SPEAKER_03: We were just spitballing about it before we came on.
49:23
SPEAKER_03: And the other thing I wanted to ask you about, because you mentioned about the software that's being developed and people are using AI for like certain software to do a better job of it or more thorough or quicker.
49:36
SPEAKER_03: I have to go back to the books because if you use AI to develop your software, do you ever have a trademark on it?
49:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, that's a good question.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: And I'm not sure it's just a question, yeah.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how that works.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: And what they're doing though is they're using they're incorporating the AI chips in their system so that they can then use that to create whatever they need.
50:01
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like let's say they have animation software.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: An animation software you have joints.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And you joints are all basically there are three different kinds of joints, and they work like this, this, and this.
50:14
SPEAKER_00: So just plug the joint thing in so that when you're doing your your animations, that you just plug the joint that you have in there, right?
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Oh, because it takes care of all the little minutiae that has to happen.
50:27
SPEAKER_03: That makes sense.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: So it's no different than I think than well, Photoshop, right?
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: Use Photoshop and you can change, you can make somebody look skinnier and stronger and all these other kinds of things.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: You can get rid of the tree in the background.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: It's those kinds of things that you can actually do.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: I remember when I was working in the magazine business in the 80s, maybe 80s.
50:53
SPEAKER_00: Long time ago.
50:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, but they were they were still doing uh airbrushing photos.
50:59
SPEAKER_03: You know, they don't remember at all.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, we'd have a cover that we needed for a magazine, and and I'd go down to the guy and say, Here's here's a bunch of photos of the equipment we have, and he'd airbrush them to make them look good.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: And you know, I remember that.
51:18
SPEAKER_03: I remember those days.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: Well, it's funny because my grad student daughter, she's in instructional technology design, and right now she's been working with um or Orlando Utilities Commission, and she's been um the interface, she's created this training software that is for every different user base.
51:38
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's the engineers, sometimes it's the um linesman, sometimes it's the actual people that lose their power, you name it.
51:46
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's it's designed for different user groups to be able to deal with hurricanes in this instance.
51:54
SPEAKER_03: But um, she has become this impromptu expert on printing, offset printing, right?
52:02
SPEAKER_03: And that has changed so much since like our youth.
52:06
SPEAKER_03: I remember doing a project at uh John Graham Associates across the water from me.
52:11
SPEAKER_03: And um, and then they became DLR group, but it was this big architectural and engineering firm, and it's a whole nother language, this offset printing.
52:20
SPEAKER_03: And I was telling Brynn when she was home for her birthday, it's like, I used to do that.
52:24
SPEAKER_03: It probably looks so different.
52:26
SPEAKER_03: She goes, but it might look so similar too.
52:29
SPEAKER_03: You know, yeah.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
52:32
SPEAKER_00: This is so cool though.
52:33
SPEAKER_00: When you were talking about that, I thought, oh my gosh, why aren't we doing these things?
52:38
SPEAKER_00: So we have these brownouts, we have the blackouts or whatever, or a storm comes through and it knocks your power out.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Why are why isn't there automatically something from your town that goes to your texts you and says, your power is out, this is what's happening, so that everybody's not calling.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: It'd be incredible.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: Does it and sends it to your thing, just like they do the emergency uh things like the emergency alerts like for fire or yeah, yeah, that would be right there, and then say if you lost your power, these are the five things to make sure you do.
53:14
SPEAKER_00: Turn your stove so that you don't have gas going around and do this and you know, close off three rooms so that you can keep warm in one room and we'll let you know what the powers.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, just it'd be incredible.
53:27
SPEAKER_00: What an incredible use, yeah.
53:30
SPEAKER_00: And why so why do we why are we not doing things like that?
53:33
SPEAKER_03: Why are we not thinking maybe we're manifesting that right now, Terry?
53:38
SPEAKER_03: We are manifesting all that, and and we're gonna actually end this Zoom call and it's gonna be a perfect fucking world.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: Thanks to us, but it's true, it's like, but I I really do I do because it's funny when Brynn was home, I go, you know, my husband's so uh because she's out in the job market right now.
53:59
SPEAKER_03: That's an internship with them.
54:01
SPEAKER_03: They keep extending it, but she's been out on indeed and trying to get that full-time job.
54:06
SPEAKER_03: I said, and here's my husband.
54:08
SPEAKER_03: I can hear him in the other room going, you know, there's other disasters.
54:11
SPEAKER_03: People could really use your your user pack, your information, the things that you pull together.
54:17
SPEAKER_03: There's earthquakes, there's this, there's that.
54:20
SPEAKER_03: And and Bruno was like, Yes, that's the wrong energy to bring to natural disasters, dad.
54:26
SPEAKER_03: But I get what you're saying.
54:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm very marketable.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: But it's true.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: It's really great because how many people is she going to save?
54:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's how I feel.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: And and some of the people that she's saving are these crusty linesmen that are like, I don't need anybody to tell me new information, new education, new this, new that.
54:46
SPEAKER_03: And Bryn's like, that's why you create a little app that's like a game.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: So you can like, they're incentivized.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: They get a bonus if they play the game for a little while, which teaches them a couple of new things that they don't know about, new transformers, new this is, new that's, because things do change.
55:04
SPEAKER_03: And it's like you want them to be as safe as possible when they're restoring power or just doing their daily lives.
55:12
SPEAKER_03: So she's getting this experience with these, all these different user groups.
55:16
SPEAKER_03: And uh it's pretty amazing.
55:19
SPEAKER_03: Actually, she should become a fiction writer because she's having to sit in their shoes and be very empathetic and say, what is your daily experience?
55:30
SPEAKER_03: Not in crisis and then in crisis, and and really cover all that training in what she's doing.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she should be a fiction writer.
55:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, she should at least be uh a consultant.
55:43
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
55:45
SPEAKER_03: For certain.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: Oh, is there anything else on the um like the engineering sphere?
55:50
SPEAKER_03: Anything that you've heard recently that'll be in your magazine that you want to share with anybody before we close up?
55:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's always hard for me because I I'm always working on a dozen things at one time.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I bet I have to get approvals and all this kind of stuff from all different companies.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: And so to be honest, to totally honest with you, I don't always remember which things I've had approval to talk about.
56:15
SPEAKER_03: Oh, fair enough.
56:16
SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
56:17
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes it's like, oh my gosh, can I talk about that?
56:21
SPEAKER_00: But I I love the little things, you know.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: The the things that I really think are cool about the business in general isn't the big stuff.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: It's when there's a a little pin, you know, somebody designed that works differently than other pins, and it changes the whole industry, it changes the way they do things.
56:43
SPEAKER_00: And I those are the kind of things that I love to work with as much as anything else.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: We've had a couple of articles on and sometimes my daughter will say, What is cool about this?
56:56
SPEAKER_00: And it's one was a different steel.
57:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, so steel it comes in all kinds of formulas, just like any other metal.
57:05
SPEAKER_00: And it's a certain formula of a steel that they put on ships that help them balance, and it's just the coolest little washer kind of thing that they put that helps maintain the ships upright.
57:24
SPEAKER_00: Just really weird stuff like that that I find unbelievably fascinating.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: And when you think about that, I think, okay, can I put this in a building where there's earthquakes, like you were saying?
57:38
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
57:39
SPEAKER_00: Can I put this in you know, in any other kind of function in a car that's carried over crazy terrain?
57:47
SPEAKER_00: Just you start to think of what you can do with it.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: And this is the magazine.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: This is why I put the magazine together, this is why I'm doing it because that cross-indust genius comes from the smallest things that you can't imagine.
58:03
SPEAKER_00: The other thing though is that they're they're they're big things, you know.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: So you know, you're using a certain I just worked on something, you're using a certain camera to do something, and there's a new version of it out that all of a sudden takes care of five things that were the problem with the old camera, right?
58:25
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so people need to know this because then the next job they do, they're using the right equipment.
58:33
SPEAKER_00: And just I don't know, it's just fascinating to me.
58:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: We are at that point though, where the the discoveries they feel so tiny.
58:43
SPEAKER_03: For okay, for example, there is this, I I forget what the medicine is.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: So I apologize for that lack.
58:51
SPEAKER_03: I have a gap in my knowledge, but there's a medicine that was approved for other things, and they're finding creative ways to use it to help people right now in completely different ways.
59:02
SPEAKER_03: So it was this medicine approved through the the courses that be, which takes billions of dollars and lots of time, lots of testing.
59:11
SPEAKER_03: Great.
59:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm glad they do that.
59:13
SPEAKER_03: But now they're using it, and it's like out of a Harry Potter book, because they're putting it, injecting it into people.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: And after the injection, they're able, their body rebuilds their own knee, their own hip, or their own shoulder, those joints that fail, especially in those older years and those surgeries that they actually have to endure if they want to have the quality of life back to be moving, which extends their life.
59:43
SPEAKER_03: It's a shot now.
59:45
SPEAKER_03: And it's this is incredible stuff.
59:48
SPEAKER_03: Email this to me, too.
59:49
SPEAKER_03: Yes, oh, I'd be so happy to.
59:53
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I get the Cal Tech newsletter and the MIT newsletters and all these business to business magazines and all the products that are, and I'm scanning most of it, yeah, reading some of it.
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: But it's so they're so unbelievable.
1:00:08
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know a article.
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I've gotten permission to use it, but it's been around.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_00: So it was that MIT?
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: I think that was MIT.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, they have this robot, this flying robot that actually um swims and flies.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_00: They've been trying to figure out how birds dive into the water and then can't actually then swim back out.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_00: And they can't do it.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: Usually robots can either fly or they can swim.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_00: It's one or the other.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_00: So they've got now they've been researching this, and they've got this robot that goes into the water, swims around, and then can fly back out.
1:00:51
SPEAKER_00: And it's really cool what they did, the way they constantly adjusted the materials that they used in order to make it, as well as the motors and stuff that they're using.
1:01:02
SPEAKER_03: It's just so oh my god, and now my brain is going crazy because I could see these being almost like surveillance, um, surveillance lifeguards along the ocean or something, too, because they can see them up above and then they can rescue them, go down in the water.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, see, that's that's exactly what the magazine's about.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_00: So, what they did this for was for research that they can go fly them out to where there's a storm.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they we can't send a boat out there in the storm because it's dangerous and all this send our little robot out, it can dunk dive into the water and see what's going on and then fly back out.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_00: And so, but you're absolutely right.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_00: There's so many other ways of using this.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_03: So, this is proof.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_03: This is proof right here that those UFOs that go in the sky and dip down in the water, those actually are future us.
1:01:57
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I feel like we just solved something big there, too.
1:02:01
SPEAKER_03: A disclosure just happened, it's us.
1:02:07
SPEAKER_03: Those are our great, great, no, those are us.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_03: Those are our great, great, great, great grandchildren, maybe going the right way.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_00: They're the they're the species of humans that there were five, what, five or eight species of humans on Earth at one time?
1:02:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, they're just one of them.
1:02:27
SPEAKER_00: They're just one.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: It's just one of the species, and they might look a little bit bit different, but we all kind of started with the same theme.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_03: But we were like the dangerous, spooky, scary ones, like you were saying.
1:02:38
SPEAKER_03: We're the ones that like the rattlesnake sees, like, oh geez, let's stay away from those.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_03: Those are our dangerous cousins.
1:02:44
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_00: We're going to the water or yeah, into the mountains.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: I feel like we manifested though a kinder, gentler version of us, even just in our hour together.
1:02:55
SPEAKER_03: Don't you feel like that?
1:02:56
SPEAKER_00: I hope so.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_00: I I think that yeah, compassion for other people and kindness and all those things.
1:03:04
SPEAKER_00: That's what this is all about.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: Even as a writer, I you know you have to have conflict and you have to have evil and all these other things you do.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:13
SPEAKER_00: But so much of so much of what I write isn't about that.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_00: It's about the humanity of it all and the individuals and how they how they make decisions and how they think and how they they philosophize and and just how that changes who they are, you know.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_00: Just it's I love it.
1:03:35
SPEAKER_03: It's so true.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_03: I love it too.
1:03:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we see it in our everyday.
1:03:40
SPEAKER_03: If anybody has a family member, I don't, I don't know if I want to dip into these potholes, but we've all seen it where there's a family member that's like, I'm anti this or that.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm an anti-Seahawk fan.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_03: Let's make it non-political.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm not a Seahawk fan.
1:03:55
SPEAKER_03: And then they have a friend whose kid is a Seattle Seahawk, and they're like, okay, I can appreciate them.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: I kind of like them.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_03: And then the next time you see them, they have on their Seahawk stuff.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, I think we all have family members that are like, I'm anti this.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_03: And then the next year you see them during June with their rainbow shirt on or something.
1:04:15
SPEAKER_03: You're like, we just our tendency as human beings is to be individuals, but also to grow our empathy and um and do both at the same time.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_03: I think that's what makes us special.
1:04:28
SPEAKER_03: I think that's what AI can never be.
1:04:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_03: Well, where do you want people to find you after our car?
1:04:36
SPEAKER_03: And also if they have stories to hit you with, like, have you heard this one yet, Terry?
1:04:42
SPEAKER_03: Um, where should they contact you?
1:04:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh, they can contact me through entertainment engineering.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_03: Okay, great.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_03: I'll have links in the show notes to that.
1:04:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: You can I read the ones that say editorial at entertainment engineering.
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: And are there any books in the process right now that we can look forward to?
1:05:00
SPEAKER_00: So I have um well, I have the the thriller series that I've been putting out uh with my pseudonym, Lee Chase.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_00: And those are those are coming out.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_00: And they're they're doing okay.
1:05:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't do launches and all those kinds of things because I love to write and I have a job and things, so I just put them out um anymore.
1:05:25
SPEAKER_00: But I, you know, everything's been proofread and all those kind of things.
1:05:29
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, oh they're they are so good.
1:05:32
SPEAKER_03: He's being very humble.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_03: They're excellent books, done perfectly, they're fantastic.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate it.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_00: And when you if you find a mistake, feel free to tell me because I'll fix it, you know, and then upload it again.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_00: If I own it, I haven't.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_00: I still have five books with traditional publishers.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_00: So I'll eventually get those rights back and just do everything indie so it's easier so that when there's a mistake, I can fix it.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's a nice hybrid.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:06:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's fantastic.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_03: Well, promise you'll come back and we can we can have another gab fest about tech and humanity.
1:06:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_00: I I would love to do that.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it'd be wonderful.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: About some of the woo-woo stuff next time.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
1:06:18
SPEAKER_03: Well, I feel like we touched upon it, but promise me you'll watch back rooms.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_03: I feel like it's spooky and disturbing, but you I can imagine you and your wife would have such interesting conversation.
1:06:29
SPEAKER_03: And your daughter, like, I would I wonder if she's seen it.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_00: I would cry.
1:06:33
SPEAKER_00: My wife is not like it, she does not like horror.
1:06:36
SPEAKER_00: No, my my husband didn't either.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_03: He had to be doing something else as the three of us were watching, but even he was like, This is an interesting concept, but he had to kind of do it while he was doing something else.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_00: I'll check it out.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_03: All right, well, come back soon and thanks so much, Terry.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
1:06:55
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_03: Always fun.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_03: Always fun.
1:06:58
unknown: Yeah.
1:06:59
unknown: Okay.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_03: Bye, listeners.