Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Why Great Restaurants Feel Effortless with Tracy Malechek-Ezekiel Ep. 187

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Why Great Restaurants Feel Effortless with Tracy Malechek-Ezekiel Ep. 187 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, this is Chefs PSA and I'm your host Andre Natera
0:03
today. Welcome back Tracy Malicek
0:05
Ezekiel, chef and co-owner of Birdies in Austin.
0:09
On this episode we talked about transforming the dining
0:11
experience for birdie shift prefix menus to how that
0:14
decision unlocked creativity, sustainability and a better work
0:18
of life balance for the team. We dig into storytelling,
0:21
seasonal cooking, kitchen culture, and what it really
0:23
takes to build a restaurant that works for both guests and chefs.
0:27
Stay tuned. Great restaurants don't always
0:44
bring customers in. Great stories do, because in
0:47
food, beverage and hospitality, what you sell is only part of
0:50
the story. It's the why behind it, the
0:54
authority you create and the experience that you built.
1:00
Market scale turns expertise into content that connects
1:03
podcasts, video series and industry education, not ads.
1:07
Assets. Market scale has brought run the
1:12
past and how to manage like an executive chef to life real
1:15
world examples of how great content leads the conversation.
1:20
Because attention is earned and the industry doesn't need more
1:23
noise. It needs more leaders.
1:30
So did you get some new glasses? So for Christmas, I wanted to
1:34
get these Meta AI glasses. The reason I I got them is
1:37
because I want to record content behind the scenes.
1:41
So obviously I go out and eat or whatever the case may be, but
1:44
specifically for the podcast. So people get a little teaser,
1:47
who's coming up, what's going to happen, Maybe they can see it
1:51
from my point of view. So yeah, I don't wear glasses.
1:54
I have laser eyes. I had LASIK a couple of years
1:56
ago. Best investment I've ever done.
1:58
But for this, it's like, OK, I'm part Cyborg now.
2:02
So. Yeah.
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So people will get to see a little bit of a little teaser of
2:06
of Tracy coming on the show. Cool.
2:08
Yeah. So by the way, what what's going
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on? You got a lot going on.
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I want to ask you about all these changes that are going on
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at Bertie's. So in April we shifted from a la
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carte menu which we had for four years.
2:23
We shifted to a prefix menu, so we change the menu every three
2:28
to four weeks in entirety, top to bottom, that there's kind of
2:33
a rough placeholder of a soup usually, not always.
2:38
And there's you, there's always a soft serve.
2:41
So kind of beyond that, it's see where the month takes us.
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What sparked the what sparked the change?
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I was really feeling handcuffed creatively with what we could
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cook. We have a three foot wide
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plancha flat top and a three foot wide French top, a big
3:02
rationale and a small counter prior and that's kind of it.
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So we also have 75 seats. So considering those things and
3:11
thinking about how busy we were lucky enough to be, I was just
3:15
feeling like, OK, another plancha roasted fish, another
3:20
minute steak, OK, you know, And at a certain point I felt like I
3:25
can do more, but I can't physically do it here.
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And my cooks are very talented. They can do more.
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They want to learn more. And it's my job as their chef to
3:35
give them more challenges. I also feel like on Friday,
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Saturday nights, we were really busy and at the end of service,
3:43
I could just see it in our team's face like we are cooked.
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And we do so much to promote work life balance, You know,
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five day work week, we close for over a month, a year and pay our
3:53
team incredible insurance package, parental leave.
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And so even though we're really taking into consideration and
4:02
accounting for a good work life balance, I just felt like we
4:05
were just feeling kind of drained.
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And I was like, you know what our job like, what if we, what
4:10
if we do a reset and what if we shipped A prefix?
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And we've never been afraid of taking calculated risks when it
4:16
feels right. And it just felt like the right
4:19
time to try something new, to tighten things up a little bit.
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I kind of joke like Friday, Saturday nights felt like a big
4:26
fun party, but it just wasn't quite as consistently controlled
4:30
as I would want it to be. So let's explain to people
4:34
because you're saying you're talking about doing a prefix
4:36
menu, but this is not a tasty menu.
4:37
So they're two different things, right?
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So from the traditional tasting menu versus a prefix what what
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is different for the audience listening of what you're serving
4:47
right now? If when people think about OK,
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I'm serving a tasty menu or versus I'm serving a prefix
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menu. Sure.
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So I think there are a few different variations of a prefix
4:57
itself and then a tasty menu itself.
5:00
I really was inspired in our job.
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My husband, a business partner, really like kind of the European
5:06
style neighborhood restaurant prefix menu.
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It kind of felt like this affordable luxury, you know,
5:12
menu of the day kind of thing. Even though we do change it
5:14
every three to four weeks. And then within that, things
5:16
will change when need be. But I feel like for us it's six
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courses, $79. There's a snack, a soup or an
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app, another app like a hot app and then pasta, entree, dessert.
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And then there's usually an add on.
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Maybe that's a house made focaccia, maybe that's spaghetti
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with caviar or truffle or kind of whatever is kind of floating
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through that moment in time. How did you how did you announce
5:50
to the staff that this is what they're doing?
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How was it received? Would they get super excited or
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was it like, oh, here comes more work?
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So our team was actually like, OK, all right.
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And I think, you know, just by nature of birdies being birdies
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and who we are, we've always taken risks like our first
6:08
Aiello's that we ever did, which is our red sauce pop up.
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Inspired by my late grandfather Phil Aiello the Thursday before
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the next week. So we're closed Sunday, Monday.
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So Tuesday I was like, let's do Aiello's and then that was set
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had no recipe testing, no menu down.
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I was just like, let's cook red sauce next Tuesday.
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And that was our very first Aiello.
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So I think our team has always been used to just let's go for
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it. Let's just cook, let's go.
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And our team is not like it's not like I said it forget it
6:41
menu. It's never been a set up forget
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it menu. It's always been changing.
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It's always been alive. And our team, I think is knows
6:47
our job and I both like to kind of keep everybody on their toes.
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And I feel like the best restaurants are the ones that
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are always changing and evolving and not just, you know, this set
6:57
moment in time. It's it's just, it keeps
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progressing. By the way, I love red sauce
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like I love red sauce Italian, so unfortunately I missed it.
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What was on the menu? So for Aiello's we we, we do it
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twice a year or Aiello's menu February and October.
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So there's usually mozzarella sticks and meatballs, whole
7:19
fennel seeds, my family's thing. I just feel like they pop more
7:23
than when they're ground. There's usually a possible vodka
7:27
sauce, tiramisu, and then other things within that change.
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But those are kind of the the pillars of the menu.
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So Aiello's was tell me about that and maybe for the audience,
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what's the connection? So you said it's your
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grandfather was at grandfather's restaurant?
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No, so my grandfather was from Calabria, Italy, tip of the
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boot, and he lived in a very poor village and he came to
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Italy, I mean to excuse me, to Brooklyn when he was 12, you
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know, quarter in his pocket kind of story.
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Had a few siblings and lived through just a very poor time
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growing up with a self-made man. He served and the Army was the
8:09
only member of his platoon to come back alive.
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You know, he's fighting against his own country.
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Can imagine that was easy for him.
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Played baseball in college, moved down to Texas and with my
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grandmother who was Irish from the Bronx, tough as nails.
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And he started, you know, his family here and a construction
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company. And just the way he lived his
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life was just it's kind of a no BS.
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I'm just going to get it done, work hard, don't ask her
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anything. That kind of like tough
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immigrant, you know, attitude. And he was just an inspiration
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to me. And yeah, I love him so much.
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So is that is that the food that you guys grew up eating kind of
8:52
at a grandparents house? Sometimes, yeah, sometimes on
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Sundays we we did my my mom worked a lot and that's probably
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where I got my work ethic. But on Sundays was family Cook
9:02
Day. So now that you've you've
9:04
introduced the the quarterly changing prefix venue.
9:09
That's right, monthly changing. Monthly changing.
9:11
Yeah, every four weeks it changes.
9:13
Oh geez, I don't know why I heard quarterly.
9:15
That's absolutely insane. It is a great challenge to
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change the menu every four weeks from top to bottom.
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So, so you're going in, you talked about earlier you said
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let's just cook. So how much time preparation and
9:33
R&D is going between, you know, January 31st and February 1st?
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There's not a lot of R&D happening.
9:40
I'm going to be honest, I'm I'm trying to tighten things up a
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little bit and I have two amazing sous chefs and the goal
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is a couple weeks, 2 Fridays before the new menu.
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I sit down with them, show them the rough draft of the menu.
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If there's anything we want to test out, we test those few
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things out. For example, our recent menu,
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this is January when we're recording N Italy is the menu
10:05
and so. You just came back right we.
10:07
Just came back from break. We're, you know, closed for 2
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1/2 weeks over our winter break. And I wrote the menu Saturday,
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finalized it Sunday slash Monday.
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Tuesday was a prep day. We opened Wednesday, so nothing
10:20
got tested for that. So what I do is I kind of sketch
10:24
out recipes. Usually other times I'll tell a
10:28
cook to grab 5 things and then we'll kind of write the menu
10:31
together. So the prep day is important.
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Day one of the menu is important because we don't do the day
10:37
before prep day where we're closed except for when we're
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returning from a break. Usually day one is day one.
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We're open to the public. And I think it's really
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important to teach cooks how to cook and the wise and the house,
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not just here's a recipe grammed out, go, let's let's do this
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together and I'm going to ask you questions.
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And tomorrow it might look different based on what that
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ingredient is and how it's looking today and when it was
11:02
harvested and is it overgrown? Is this even the right dish
11:05
anymore? Do we need to change this right
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now? You know, and like asking all of
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these questions. So it's really important to me
11:12
that cooks are in tune with what they're working with and are
11:16
actually learning the skill of cooking.
11:18
When, when you talk about the, the culinary team that's around
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you, So you mentioned, you know, your sous chefs and, and your
11:23
cooks are all very talented. I'm assuming they're talented in
11:26
their own right before they came to you.
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But they've also picked up a little bit of the way that you
11:31
cook and it's now incorporating their identity.
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So do you guys have like an unspoken language and you say do
11:37
this, They know exactly what you mean.
11:39
Like they're already starting to think like you.
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Yeah, I mean, so my exec Souhi J has been with me since day one.
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We opened 4 1/2 years ago and she was a sous chef before she
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got to Birdies. But she started off on Garmer J
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because in the beginning I was, I was the only kitchen sous chef
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or chef I was. I had no, no managers and our
11:57
job was the only person in the dining room.
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We are very scrappy, lean and mean in the beginning.
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But since then and she had cooked at Gramercy Tavern where
12:04
I cooked, but she worked in a generation after me.
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But we already had a common language of the way we worked in
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a kitchen, treating people with respect, the way we took care of
12:14
ingredients, just kind of like that fundamental connectivity.
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She just spoke my language. So that was great.
12:21
And then Phil has been with me over three years, my AM sous
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chef. He is also a sous chef before he
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got the Brady's, but started off as a cook like everyone does and
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learns the way we worked, which is it is a more spontaneous
12:38
style, less kind of locked in place than most restaurants.
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And I think the cooks that succeed at Birdies, especially
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the ones who've been with me for a long time, they love that.
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And they're like, they're cooks, cooks like, they like to talk
12:56
about what they're cooking on the weekend and they like to
12:57
challenge themselves and they like to learn new things.
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And they don't just want to have an easy work day every day.
13:04
Did you work with when you're at Grandma?
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She did. Did you ever cross paths with
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Tom Colliery or was that before your time?
13:09
He was before Mike Anthony. Did you ever work with him at
13:12
all? I didn't.
13:14
So did you see the, I don't know if it was eater?
13:17
Someone put out a little short little video on on YouTube about
13:21
them behind the scenes at Craft. Did you see it?
13:24
I didn't. It's great.
13:26
And I loved it because yeah, they're they're redoing what
13:30
they're doing at Craft. So he he kind of gives us a
13:32
little bit of history there and he talks about, you know, we're
13:34
we're doing a tasty menu and he's kind of prepping it as they
13:36
go. And I'm watching it and he's
13:38
talking about food and I'm watching to make pasta and
13:41
they're brazing short ribs and it's like they're cooking.
13:45
Yeah. You know, they're cooking.
13:46
Yeah. And he's talking about food and
13:49
cooking. Looks like.
13:50
I feel like we're getting back to that a little bit.
13:53
We kind of got lost a little bit in, in the, you know, in, in the
13:57
vanity of social media cooking. But it, it does feel a little
14:01
bit soulless sometimes when you say, oh, wow, that's a lot of
14:04
shaved vegetables and microgreens.
14:05
Yeah. There's a lot of pollutions and
14:07
they're really beautiful nestertiums, but I'd rather have
14:12
a perfectly cooked pasta or, you know, a braised short rib or a
14:16
perfectly cooked piece of meat then the most beautiful flowers,
14:18
right? I just don't get that.
14:20
I don't wake up in the middle of the night, say, you know what
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I'm craving a big bowl of flowers.
14:24
Same, and it's funny because he's been into grammar or to
14:28
birdies and I've got to do him a little bit for the past couple
14:33
years. And yeah, I really respect his
14:35
philosophy and his style and actually trailed a craft like 20
14:40
something years ago when I was in culinary school at CIA.
14:43
Yeah, he's, I, I was very impressed with his philosophy on
14:47
food. I mean, I think he's always been
14:48
upfront with it, but just seeing that he's still, what do you
14:53
think of Tom Calico? Like he's the the Top Chef, you
14:55
know, celebrity, but like, he's still a chef.
14:57
Oh, he's a chef. He still likes to cook.
14:59
He loves to fish and he loves to cook.
15:01
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty impressive.
15:03
And and he's still, and he gets it like he sees through.
15:07
He sees through the bullshit. 100%.
15:09
Yeah, and I think a lot of times when you're a young cook, it's
15:12
easy to get distracted in the flowers and the, and the this
15:15
that and the other and the, and the vanity metrics and the
15:19
everything else that goes into Instagram food.
15:21
And I don't want to call it Instagram food because I'm not
15:23
knocking because some of that Instagram food is very delicious
15:25
as well. But it's easy to now it's easy
15:28
to want to start doing all this other stuff and forget it like,
15:31
but you got to know how to cook first.
15:33
I would 100% agree. And I would also tell young
15:36
cooks learn how to cook, learn how to braise, learn how to
15:41
Stew, learn how to pan roast. Just learn the basics before you
15:46
start getting distracted with those.
15:48
You know, with molecular gastronomy even you know, look
15:51
at Grand Achatz. He is amazing chef, but he's
15:55
also a fantastic cook and he learned how to, you know, cook
15:58
at a very high level at the French Laundry before he became
16:01
that. And I think learning and
16:03
establishing those fundamentals early is, is so important.
16:06
And on the short rib note, you know, last week we were
16:09
sketching out a short rib recipe.
16:10
I mean, short ribs, sure. Like, let's just cook, let's go.
16:13
You know, we're looking at it. I mean, we prepped out the, the
16:16
Miraplah and then he J was putting it on top.
16:19
And I was like, oh, that feels like too much.
16:21
Let's take out a third of it. Let's adjust this note, you know
16:24
what I mean? And and like just like cooking
16:25
at it because sometimes you just need to look at it and see what
16:28
the right amount is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:30
It's funny. You know, I've been cooking a
16:32
lot at home lately and I and I think if I'm making a bechamel,
16:36
which I don't, I was like, I don't make bechamel that much.
16:39
But now I'm making bechamel again and I'm making Roux.
16:43
And I, I'm, I'm cooking the rou out and I'm tasting the sauce
16:45
and I'm like, I forgot that Roux has a flavor too, right?
16:49
Yeah. And it's, and it's just starting
16:50
to think like I, I got so much into the like, oh, avoid Roux,
16:53
avoid flour. And it's like there's something
16:55
beautiful about the classic cooking, at least for me,
16:58
because it's flavor memories of how I was a young cook, you
17:00
know, making lobster bisque or whatever, whatever, right?
17:03
But if you if anyway, I could go down the nostalgia route at
17:06
length. But if you were bringing someone
17:08
new that you'd never met and you were going to start mentoring
17:12
them, like, hey, let's start building you some culinary
17:14
skills, where would you start? I would start them probably on
17:18
the line and we have 4 stations currently on the PM line and
17:24
every menu it looks different. Literally every menu.
17:27
Not only is an entirely new menu every three or four weeks, but
17:30
everyone's on a different station in a different location
17:33
in the kitchen, using different equipment, different plates,
17:36
making different dishes. So I'd probably put them on the
17:39
more straightforward station. That being said, when I say
17:42
straightforward, nothing's really easy at birdies.
17:44
Like if we have a salad on that menu, cooks or like initially
17:48
might think, oh, she's the salad.
17:50
That's probably the station I'm on top of most and there's there
17:54
might be an issue just because there's so many things that can
17:56
go wrong when you're composing a salad, You know, how were the
18:00
drain the greens received? How were they, you know, washed
18:06
cut? How were they stored?
18:09
How are they being held on the line where the backups being
18:11
held as a lowboy, too hot doesn't need to go, you know,
18:14
for service. Do the greens need to go on the
18:16
walk in and just get a run and go grab them?
18:19
How big is your bowl? Is it, does it seem like the
18:22
right size? Because it should be a bigger
18:23
bowl than you think you need. That way you can toss it and
18:26
make it really fluffy. And you're not just like
18:28
weighing the vinaigrette down and like God forbid you take out
18:32
the tongs, like put on gloves and like gently make the salad.
18:36
And there's so many things that in doing everything that
18:39
required detail and attention. I think I can't really say
18:43
there's an easy station, but I would probably start them there
18:47
just to learn those fundamentals because they're so important.
18:50
And I think to cook or if you're roasting a vegetable, let's say
18:55
it is just as hard to perfectly roast a vegetable in my opinion
18:57
than it is cook a piece of fish or meat to really be locked in.
19:01
You know, the vegetable shouldn't just be like the
19:03
forgotten about component. They matter just as much.
19:07
And, and I think, I think in terms of like cuisine and, you
19:14
know, talking about making a Roux, even though like we don't
19:17
probably 11 months of the year, we don't cook like that.
19:19
But we do Bistro Rami in December, inspired by our family
19:23
trip to Paris when my son was six months old and we had flight
19:30
miles like on Delta about to expire.
19:32
And sort of like we got to go somewhere and our job had never
19:34
been to Paris. We went to Paris, had this
19:35
incredible, magical family trip where we were like hitting the
19:39
first seating of the night at like, you know, 515 our job and
19:43
I would share a bottle of wine and then walk back, you know,
19:45
the stroller to our hotel. And it was just it was just the
19:49
best. And we were like, we should do a
19:51
Bishop Remy at birdie sometime. And so that was kind of the
19:54
inspiration for that. So we do make, you know,
19:57
bechamel, Mornay, paddish shoe, things like that, that we don't
20:01
typically make up birdies because typical birdies is
20:04
inspired by the Italian grandmother and French nouvelle
20:07
cuisine, which is, you know, clean.
20:11
Straightforward vegetable base reduction, base style cooking
20:16
where everything's made fresh versus the Escoffier style of
20:21
the Roux sauce, Espanol, those types of things.
20:25
I want to go back to the salad. So for a young cook listing or a
20:30
new cook that's in culinary school and said OK, I think I
20:32
know how to make a salad. You put all the lettuce in a
20:33
bowl and you toss it and then you get the big tongs And right,
20:39
if if you had a cook right here with you and you said, OK, let
20:41
me teach you how to like, let me walk you through the steps of
20:44
how to properly dress greens. How would how do you teach
20:48
people? Well, first of all, I would say
20:51
it depends on the greens because we make a Caesar salad at
20:53
Aiello's differently than we make, you know, a baby mix green
20:57
salad. Let's go with the baby mix.
20:59
Green, so the baby mix green salad, I would say get a really
21:02
big bowl greens and I like a lot of herbs in my salad, usually
21:07
fresh herbs. Like Dill or?
21:09
Parsley, yeah, kind of depending on what the style that salad is,
21:12
so I'll just grab a few. Maybe it's really nice, fine
21:16
brunoise shallot, nice chives, they're cut with a sharp knife
21:23
as well. Picked perhaps parsley, maybe
21:27
throw in some dill and then a nice vinaigrette on the side of
21:32
the bowl, not on the greens directly.
21:34
And then I really like literally put on gloves and then just
21:38
tossing it. And then so it's like all mixed,
21:41
but it's not. You know, if you see a cook
21:43
doing this, like we got problems, take the bear claw
21:46
away at tasting it. And then a lot of times we'll
21:50
add depending on what the dish is, a dot of fresh lemon if it
21:53
needs it, or a dot of Ligurian olive oil if it needs it.
21:56
It just kind of depends on that dish.
21:58
And then, you know, placing it when you plate it.
22:00
I really like as if it fell from heaven and not squashing it
22:03
down, just kind of letting it fall.
22:06
And I think there truly is an art to to plating a nice salad.
22:09
Yeah, he used to get my cooked shit, I'd say, You know, with
22:14
your farmer hands going in there crushing up all the lettuce.
22:17
But yeah, I, I hated seeing that.
22:18
Like they're just, it's almost like they're trying to crunch it
22:22
when they're tossing. It's like, what are you doing?
22:24
Don't do that gentle. You're bruising the green.
22:26
Exactly. Yeah.
22:28
No, but you're right. A good salad is delicious.
22:30
I love a good salad. I think, you know, one of my
22:33
friends, every time we go out and eat, you always order the
22:35
salad. And I never get salads.
22:37
I think last time you were here, we were talking about soup.
22:39
I love soup, but salads, you know, good salad.
22:42
And I think that's why I don't get salads often.
22:44
This is they're usually not good.
22:45
They're usually an afterthought. Like we got to have this end of
22:48
that on the menu. We have to have a salad.
22:50
So like put this on it. But a good salad, a thoughtful,
22:53
intentional salad, it'd be excellent.
22:56
I totally agree, and on our prefix menus now, we haven't had
22:59
many salads. We've had a couple.
23:01
It made sense for the Bistro Remy menu because that menu was
23:05
like gougere stuffed with mornay and top with black pepper.
23:09
It was like cauliflower soup with brown butter.
23:12
And then it went to salad, which made sense because you wanted
23:15
this like spaniels vinaigrette that's bright and Herbie with no
23:20
cheese on top or anything. Just like something crisp and
23:22
fresh to kind of break everything else.
23:25
Because after that you went to beef bourguignon or you went to
23:27
a house made sausage with palm puree and pork sauce.
23:30
So with all of that richness, I think menu balance is really
23:33
important to consider as well, you know, when composing a menu.
23:36
And like, I just want, if I'm sitting there eating that meal,
23:40
I want that bright salad. And for me making menus, it's
23:43
not about my ego or like feeling chefy.
23:47
It's about what makes sense and what what do I want to eat?
23:51
So something I've been thinking a lot about lately is the the
23:56
flow of menu. So I ate at this restaurant not
23:59
and I won't say where, but I did this restaurant recently that
24:02
was doing a tasting menu and the food was beautiful and it was
24:08
also delicious. But I could tell it was a young
24:11
chef because they didn't know that they shouldn't kill the
24:13
palate on the first course. You know, the very first course
24:17
was Curry and, and and cream and foam.
24:22
And I was like, and then right after that I went into
24:25
something, you know, that was like, that's, that's the wrong
24:28
thing. And that was served with
24:29
champagne. I just remember thinking like
24:32
the food is beautiful. But a lot of times I don't think
24:34
people think it all the way through.
24:35
Like they just want to put their greatest hits and all their cool
24:37
ideas, right? Not thinking about the customer
24:40
experience or the guest experience.
24:41
Like you need to start and don't kill the pallet and you got to
24:43
build up, you got to know when to reset and refresh the pallet.
24:48
So how do you go about thinking about, now that you're designing
24:52
this prefix menu, that's something that you have to think
24:55
about. It's, it's the way that they
24:57
eat. It's the way that they
24:57
experience it. How do you go about building
25:00
those, those flavor profiles? And if you were going to give
25:02
someone advice that's listening, how do you, how do you, how do
25:06
you organize the, the, the flavor profile throughout the
25:09
the menu? So for me, prefix has actually
25:12
helped me a lot in terms of menu composition.
25:15
I mean, in a way it's it's much harder and in a way it's easier.
25:18
Every menu has its own inspiration.
25:22
So maybe that's the French Riviera in the summer when it's
25:25
hot and the weather's in Austin is similar to that of Provence
25:30
or the French Riviera. And maybe it's menu Sicily.
25:34
And that's where I'm looking for a inspiration.
25:37
And November, we did an autumn harvest menu that was, you know,
25:42
I was always Central Texas inspired, focused ingredients,
25:46
but still looking at Italy and France for kind of direction.
25:50
And so because I feel like every menu has a clear focus, I don't
25:54
get distracted with other things to put on it.
25:58
It just to me makes so much sense and it's so obvious.
26:01
So for example, going with this, I'll start with this Northern
26:04
Italy, Italy menu we have right now.
26:06
And we're starting, we start with Noco Frito draped with
26:11
Prosciutto de Parma and a little bit of olive oil, like fresh
26:14
pressed olive oil. It's a very simple bite.
26:17
And we were actually traveling in northern Italy over our
26:20
summer break in August. So we did Venet dough, Trentino,
26:25
Waldo Audige and Amelia Romagna. And this menu feels a lot of the
26:30
Amelia Romagna influences, I think.
26:33
So that bite specifically was from Modena and you know,
26:38
pillowy fried dough, yeasted dough draped with perfect
26:44
prosciutto de Parma and fresh pressed olive oil, black pepper,
26:49
like forget about it, you know, And to me, that's just, it's
26:52
something that's so true of that place, especially Emilia
26:55
Romagna. It has a history and that's what
26:57
they snack on. And I, you know, had them a lot
27:00
when I was there. And so every menu I start with,
27:05
I think about what is the inspiration of that place and
27:08
what would they start with there.
27:09
And so for me, it's like, it's really easy to, to figure out
27:14
how to do that because it, it's not like, oh, I can pull from
27:17
anything in the world. It's like I have a very clear
27:19
place. There are sometimes where my, my
27:21
issues with building our menus is more like, how can we execute
27:24
that? You know, having a very small
27:26
space, just it's great challenges.
27:28
So it's like, OK, can we plug in the fryer there and have the
27:33
mini oven going? You know what I mean?
27:35
And like, it's really like a fun challenge to make these menus
27:39
because one, OK, figure out the inspiration.
27:42
Two, what are the dishes that hopefully can go on the menu?
27:45
Three, can we execute them in our physical space with time
27:49
constraints of service? You know, a dish can't be a 30
27:52
minute pickup that probably won't work unless it's an
27:55
entree. And we can plan for that from
27:57
the past and the way we're expediting.
27:59
So, so now going back to the menu creation process, I'm sure
28:05
there's some guardrails here because it still has to fall
28:07
within what the perceived birdie's identity is, right?
28:11
Yeah, I mean, I the perceived the way the food I cook is
28:16
seasonal American with a ton of French influences.
28:19
So within that umbrella, which feels huge.
28:22
You know, the more I think about all the menus we can do, for me
28:25
it's like more time because we're also influenced by the
28:27
weather. So I'm not going to cook, let's
28:29
say I don't know, menu Piedmont whenever it's hot outside and
28:34
it's usually hot out here. So because we only have a few
28:36
cold months here in Austin, I have to be really selective.
28:40
So I wasn't sure if, for example, this month, if I was
28:42
going to do just Trentino Alto, Audi J, which is, you know,
28:45
northeast Italy. We we stayed in the Dolomites,
28:49
which was magical and dreaming. I highly recommend if you ever
28:52
have the chance. But that is like very German
28:55
inspired Italian cuisine. You know, they speak German.
28:57
There's their first language, Italian, mostly as their second
29:00
because it used to be under German rule.
29:02
And the cuisine there is more cabbage, it's speck.
29:05
So we got, we do. We did sneak in a cabbage apple
29:07
soup on this menu, but because we only have a few cold months
29:12
and we also want to do B star at me in December, it's like, oh,
29:16
let's just call this this menu northern Italy.
29:18
But like pull out dishes from different regions in Italy
29:21
because I really like to get nerdy and our team, I think does
29:23
too and like dial in on a region and like, you know, menu Sicily
29:27
was like, let's do this beef, this Texas Wagyu beef and
29:31
Boltini like stuffed with bread crumbs, Cacho covello chili,
29:34
lemon zest, garlic, grill it over coals.
29:37
You know, I never had that dish, but it's like traditional
29:40
Sicilian shepherd's dish. And I think there's like a real
29:43
beauty and celebrating history, but still keeping with the
29:47
Italian and French mindset of like using what's growing around
29:50
you. How's the how's the change been
29:52
received? Pretty good, I think.
29:54
Yeah. It's, I think in the beginning
29:56
it took me like a menu or two to get my footing down and figuring
29:59
out the right progression and kind of what worked because it
30:02
was a very different menu shift. So we were always changing the
30:06
menu every day in some capacity before, but that was kind of
30:10
more with the garnish or a snack or something.
30:13
But this menu has just been been totally different.
30:16
But I'm, I'm thinking about you said earlier, like you always
30:18
have a this, that pasta, you know, being course, etcetera.
30:22
So you do have a little bit of a formula that is predictable for
30:26
the team to understand. Like, hey, the there's some,
30:28
there's some guardrails here, right?
30:31
Yeah, I think having the format of a snack into a soup or a cold
30:36
bite, maybe that could sometimes be, I don't know, a crudo plate
30:40
or something if it makes sense in a hot month into a hot app
30:47
into a pasta, maybe into probably a pasta because we
30:53
don't have a pasta for the French Bistro menu into an
30:58
entree. Right now it's we have coda
31:01
keynote with lentils and mustarda or Texas while you
31:07
short rib with polenta, turnip greens and 10 year balsamic.
31:12
There's often times a fish option.
31:13
There's not this menu because it didn't make sense.
31:16
And there's also a vegetarian option.
31:19
So like the menu, the right now it's like it's a roasted
31:23
eggplant with polenta, turnip greens, oven dried tomatoes,
31:29
balsamic, nice olive oil and it's I actually would order that
31:33
dish as well. I think it's delicious and to
31:36
dessert. So there is that formula for
31:40
that that I guess formula that works.
31:42
So at least there's kind of placeholders, but they're not
31:45
set in stone. I.
31:46
Want to ask you, you know, transitioning a little bit in
31:48
the conversation, but I want to ask you about how do you, how do
31:51
you build a kitchen culture where you're at?
31:53
And you know, what are some of the most important things?
31:56
The non negotiables. If someone's coming into your
31:58
kitchen, like OK, I know you might have worked other place,
32:01
but this is this is how it is here.
32:04
I would say non negotiables are they have to have a great
32:09
attitude, they have to be ready to learn and they have to be
32:17
professional. Yeah.
32:18
What does that look like professional to you?
32:21
I think showing up on time in the right headspace to learn and
32:30
carry yourself thoughtfully and keeping the people around you in
32:37
consideration. It's a small kitchen as well and
32:40
it's really important that everyone's got good energy.
32:43
If someone's having a bad day, like everyone can physically
32:46
feel it. And I think I like to think
32:49
Birdies is the kind of place that if someone is having a bad
32:51
day, the team can lift them up and support them, whether, you
32:54
know, they got broken up with their other half or whatever
32:59
happened that's they're just going through a rough patch.
33:02
I really like the idea that your team is there to support you.
33:05
And I look a lot to professional sports teams and NBA teams and
33:09
those teams you see that have such camaraderie.
33:13
There is still a professionalism and a sense of holding people
33:17
accountable, communicating well-being kind and offering
33:23
support. How do you how do you maintain
33:29
the standard? Is there something that you do
33:31
from a leadership perspective that doesn't allow the drift as
33:34
standards start to deviate or how do you how do you constantly
33:37
bring it back? Yeah, I think holding people
33:39
accountable is really important. So first establishing the
33:42
standard of what's expected. And there are the black and
33:45
whites of the handbook, for example, that we give to
33:47
everybody. So they they know the roll book.
33:50
But then also, you can't just get out the handbook and walk
33:52
away. If you're not holding people
33:54
accountable for the way they're speaking to each other, the way
33:57
they're treating each other, the way they're taking care of our
34:00
our things, our equipment, things like that, then they need
34:04
to, we need to sit down, have a chat.
34:06
How do you deal with the the really good cook with a really
34:10
bad attitude? We don't hire the really good
34:13
cook with a really bad attitude. But what if you've hired them
34:15
and they snuck in? They put the mask.
34:17
On so if if they snuck in there, there needs to be sit downs
34:21
about, hey, you don't have the right attitude.
34:24
And if we see this behavior continuing, seems like you're
34:29
not going to be the right fit for our restaurant because team
34:32
culture is something we hold tight.
34:33
And I would always rather have a greener, newer cook who has a
34:37
great attitude, no ego and is like ready to learn than a cook
34:41
who may have been whatever chef or whatever restaurant, but they
34:46
don't have the right head on their shoulders.
34:47
Have you ever had to deal with that?
34:49
I'm sure you have but like. Not.
34:51
Not a lot. Not not often.
34:54
Yeah, not often. Yeah, it's, it's something that
34:57
I, I mean, I think we all as chefs go through it like you
34:59
hire someone that's extremely talented and you're excited to
35:01
get them in and then they're just not a good fit.
35:03
They they just don't gel well with the rest of the team.
35:06
Yeah, I think it's important to always address it head on.
35:10
And I think sometimes in kitchens, like all workplaces,
35:14
something feels grey. And I think if you feel that
35:16
more than once, you need to have a sit down because ultimately
35:20
you can't let anyone skunk your team, no matter what profession
35:24
you're in. Yeah, yeah, I, I agree.
35:27
I think a lot of a lot of times, sometimes young cooks come in
35:29
and they have the mindset, which is it?
35:31
It's a healthy mindset to come and say I want to be the best.
35:34
But sometimes they come in with the the mindset of I want to be
35:37
the best at the expense of the team, right, Hurting them or
35:42
making them look bad and things like that.
35:44
And I, I personally have a problem with it.
35:47
And I, I know I've, I've, I've struggled with it throughout my
35:50
career where I might leave the bad apple too long because they
35:54
were really good at cooking before I realized, you know
35:57
what, they, they got to go because they're more of a
35:58
detriment. I know that now, you know,
36:03
they're being burned a couple of times.
36:05
But I think it's something that young cooks need to understand
36:08
is like the team is more important than the individuals.
36:11
You know, I always used to joke around and say, I want the
36:14
Justice League. I want just Batman, right?
36:16
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I I think birdies is really
36:19
successful when the team as a whole is clicking.
36:23
That being said, I always tell the team like you're here a for
36:27
yes, you're making a paycheck and getting great benefits, but
36:30
you're also improving yourself and what you can do because
36:35
cooking. I, I think the young cooks want
36:38
to chase what title they have before they tackle their skill
36:43
set. And what they need to be doing
36:45
is learning how to cook and you know what they can cook.
36:49
And that versatility is so important.
36:52
And that's something I'm always teaching my cooks.
36:54
It's like you may just be line cook at birdies, but what I'm
36:58
teaching you is so much more. And so I think if cooks are
37:03
really focused on, you know, the next 10-15 years of their career
37:07
rather than just the next year and they have a more open minded
37:14
approach to it, they're going to be so much for more successful.
37:17
And like me talking to them about, I never rose to the ranks
37:20
through the ranks quickly. I was very slow to move up and
37:23
it did my time. But now that I'm at birdies, I
37:26
have so much confidence. I know I'm not perfect, but I'm
37:29
confident we're going to figure it out really quick and it's so
37:31
much fun. I don't, I don't recipe test for
37:34
ages. We just, I mean, great.
37:35
We cook simple food. I'm not saying we're doing
37:37
complicated things. And no disrespect to anyone who
37:39
does complicated things and needs to do extensive recipe
37:41
testing. Like I respect it.
37:43
Many incredible chefs function that way.
37:45
I just like to cook this way. And I finally, it took me many
37:48
years of doing the grind of being a line cook to be able to
37:51
do this and cook in the way we do.
37:55
My, my wheels are turning. I want to ask you this because
37:59
you know how to cook very well and you work in some great, some
38:01
great places, but you also run a really good business.
38:06
So for people listening, because I think they might, they might
38:09
benefit from hearing from you, at what point did you start
38:13
transitioning from your I'm a, I'm a, I'm a chef, I'm a cook,
38:18
I'm in the kitchen to I need to start understanding the business
38:22
and was it difficult? I think this is a great
38:27
question, especially for the Cokes out there, because I think
38:32
before you can even think about the business, you need to think
38:35
of yourself as a professional. So not only should you be as a
38:39
cook learning how to cook, but there's more to that.
38:43
It's how do you show up every day?
38:45
How do you communicate with people?
38:46
People don't speak enough in kitchens about communicating
38:50
clearly and respectfully, you know, And I think the great
38:54
chefs of the world are the ones who are great communicators.
38:56
You know, you have the technicians who are so talented
38:59
and so many of those amazing technical chefs never really
39:02
have their moment the way they could if they would have learned
39:06
how to communicate and lead A-Team.
39:08
And I think, you know, things like reading leadership books,
39:11
working on that kind of personal, you know, building
39:15
your own, shaping your own leadership voice.
39:17
They're so important to be a chef.
39:20
And I think once you're working on that and that can even help
39:22
you transition to when you become a a manager of people.
39:26
And then from from there, he has the business side of it.
39:29
And you know, when I was at Gramercy Tavern, we would do
39:33
occasional PNL meetings with the team and that showed me a little
39:36
bit of behind the scenes numbers.
39:40
I understand it's not my passion.
39:42
So I think, you know, when Coke start thinking about and chefs
39:45
start thinking about their own place, like, who are your
39:47
business partners? It's important to partner up
39:50
with people who have strengths you don't have.
39:52
You know, and like, for example, our job does payroll.
39:54
I hate doing payroll. That is like the worst thing in
39:57
the world. He just handles it.
39:59
I don't have to make a schedule. We decided to open just five
40:01
days a week. So everybody works five days a
40:03
week easy, you know? And I think create, think,
40:07
thinking about creating the space you want and then saying,
40:10
OK, how do I put those pieces together from a business
40:12
perspective? Because you can have the best
40:14
chef in the world, but you don't have the right GM or business
40:17
partner. It's just, it's just not going
40:21
to work out. And a lot of chefs, you know,
40:23
when they're like you said, learn how to cook when you when
40:27
you begin your career, learn how to cook, work in kitchens, work
40:29
with everything, cut everything, chop everything, butcher
40:32
everything. You know, cook fish, cook meat,
40:35
undercook fish, burn a stock. Like make all the mistakes that
40:38
you can and then taste your mistakes and then fix your
40:41
mistakes and understand how you fix them.
40:43
But a lot of times you're so focused on the culinary acumen
40:49
that there's almost a subconscious management
40:54
instruction that you're learning because you're not thinking
40:57
about it, but you're learning. And how you're learning it is by
41:00
the people that are managing you because you're watching how they
41:02
behave. And so you think, well, I'm not
41:05
really thinking about management.
41:07
I'm just learning that my chef does it this way.
41:09
So when I'm the chef, I'm just going to do it that way because
41:11
I've been so focused on cooking. So I'm going to just go to my
41:14
default settings of what of how I was raised in the kitchen.
41:20
With that being said, how were you raised in the kitchen and
41:23
how does it translate now to how you lead your team at Birdies?
41:29
I was lucky enough to work for extremely talented chefs.
41:33
I would say some of the talent, most talented chefs in the
41:36
country. I think some were great leaders
41:39
and great humans and I think others, you know, not so much.
41:45
And I think what I I did is I took the things I wanted to take
41:49
and the things I admired and just left the things that I
41:52
didn't want to take. And, you know, we're all humans.
41:54
Nobody's perfect. And, you know, they probably
41:57
also learn from a mentor who wasn't maybe the best
41:59
communicator, who was more old school, who had a style that
42:04
maybe got frustrated, maybe threw something, maybe said
42:07
something disrespectful to their cook.
42:10
And that's just what they knew, you know, and I don't
42:15
necessarily fault them for that. I just was like, that's not for
42:17
me, you know? And everyone needs to run their
42:20
kitchen how they want to. And I'm excited about the
42:22
continual professional growth and evolution of our industry.
42:26
You know, I think like I mentioned before, Gramercy
42:29
Tavern was a very professional place to work.
42:34
The way we communicated was still pushing for excellence but
42:36
also how are we treating each other because that matters.
42:41
And my first restaurant I ever cooked at Lula Cafe in Chicago,
42:44
IL Jason and Leah were the Co chefs and Co owners.
42:48
Now Leah's not so much involved in the in the business.
42:53
It's still Jason and shout out. He went on James Beard for
42:57
hospitality the first time in 25 years last year, which is
43:00
awesome. But the way they treated us was
43:04
like, you're part of our community.
43:06
We're going to respect you, but we're also going to hold you
43:08
accountable. You know, this is, I think it's
43:10
important that people understand this is a job A, but B, it's
43:15
like we're going to treat you with respect and we're going to
43:18
give and you're also going to give.
43:20
You know, this isn't A1 Race St. either way.
43:23
You know, I worked at restaurants.
43:25
I'm sure you did too, where you just felt like you were giving
43:27
and giving and giving and you did it.
43:28
You learned how to cook maybe, but like, that's kind of all you
43:31
got. And so you leave a little empty,
43:32
a little bitter. And I think life is so much more
43:37
than that. You know, I think if we really
43:39
want people to make this a career, there has to be a work
43:42
life balance. There has to be communication
43:44
with respect. There has to be, you know, cooks
43:47
are coming to a reason with a mission for a reason with a
43:50
goal. You know, everyone's got a
43:51
common goal in mind and you need to nurture them to get them
43:55
where they need to go, You know, their coach who might show up
43:57
and say, OK, I'm going to learn this and this and I want to make
44:00
a dish with you. And it's just like, whoa, whoa,
44:03
whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's, let's start a ground one.
44:05
You know what I mean? Let let's let's start from here.
44:10
And you're going to work hard and I'm going to teach you, but
44:12
it takes time and you need to be patient.
44:15
And hopefully we're going to all go to the moving goal together.
44:19
And I think that's really exciting and I'm excited to see
44:23
our industry continue to progress because there's so many
44:26
chefs I respect in our industry who are growing their team kind
44:30
of with a similar mindset. And that I really think is the
44:32
future. And the old school way of
44:33
yelling and demoralizing I I look forward to that being a
44:38
thing of the past. Yeah, well, and, and you hit the
44:41
nail on the head earlier. It's, it's a communication
44:43
issue, but you don't know how to communicate.
44:45
So you communicate through, you know, outbursts or whatever the
44:47
case may be. But if you knew how to
44:48
communicate better, they would understand it.
44:51
You would, you would make sure that they understood it
44:53
correctly before you let them loose in the wild.
44:55
You'd have much fewer frustrations.
44:58
All of that begins with communication.
44:59
And, and it's something that I understood later in my career
45:02
because I was that chef that, oh, you don't get it.
45:04
And you know, I'm gonna get upset about it.
45:07
But later on, once I really focused on like, I mean, this is
45:11
just me, but I really focus on psychology.
45:14
That's, that's really where I gained most of my, my leadership
45:16
lessons. I, I read a ton of psychology
45:19
and, and leadership books and what I realized is that it was
45:23
much easier to, to banish people once I understood people and,
45:28
and how they learn and how they react.
45:30
I was in, you know, I'm in a lot of these chef group chats and in
45:33
the conversation, you know, people are talking about the
45:36
margins and how difficult it is and, you know, with inflation
45:38
and, and rising costs and how difficult it is.
45:42
And then I'm in a different group chat.
45:44
So one group chat is restaurant operators.
45:46
The other group chat I'm in is like cooks who are complaining
45:50
they're not getting paid enough and the industry sucks.
45:52
And it's interesting because in both, this is something that I
45:57
said and maybe I said it, maybe someone else said it, but I'll
46:00
take credit. So if you're in that chat and
46:03
you said it, sorry, but I don't think that because they're like
46:09
the restaurant industry sucks. It's like, well, it doesn't.
46:12
I love cooking, I love hospitality.
46:16
Sometimes the business model is a little bit difficult because
46:18
it's difficult to get consumers to pay more for, for the product
46:22
that we're paying. So you know, they're, they're
46:24
we're working against that as an industry.
46:26
And because of that, we have small margins in general.
46:28
So because of the small margins, people make a fair wage based on
46:32
the margin that we're working with.
46:34
But the but the industry is not bad.
46:36
It's a great industry. You get to cook, you get to make
46:38
delicious food, you work with all sorts of people and
46:41
hospitality is amazing. So I, I think sometimes in
46:46
general, I would say, and this is just my, my perspective in
46:49
general, I think the business model is driving a lot of the
46:52
issues that people don't like about the business.
46:55
But the business is amazing. Who doesn't want to cook food
46:58
and, and, and take care of people and, and work with, you
47:02
know, crazy pirates? Yeah, I think that I think the
47:04
business, you know, can be amazing if it's built
47:07
intentionally and thoughtfully. I think embracing new ideas is
47:11
really important as we continue to evolve and navigate through
47:15
this wild world we're living in. And I think you hit the nail on
47:18
the head with the psychology thing.
47:21
I think that's something I, I have a lot of pride that we
47:24
offer a fantastic suite of insurance benefits and a lot of
47:27
our, our team uses there's like a therapy app through that
47:33
that's free and are very, very affordable.
47:35
And we also have subsidized mental therapy through a company
47:40
on the side as well. So I think giving professionals
47:45
those tools to work on themselves, they can show up and
47:48
be their best person in their personal life and their
47:51
professional life, you know, And I think that's so important.
47:54
I think, you know, talking about the angry chef who gets
47:56
frustrated doesn't have the tools.
47:59
I didn't even know what the word the word or the phrase mental
48:02
hijack was until like 2 years ago.
48:04
What does it mean? I don't know that phrase.
48:06
When you get mentally hijacked is it's kind of like, let's say
48:09
you're on the past, someone break brings up, you've got VIP
48:12
chef and someone passes up replating, you know, these four
48:16
dishes for this VIP table and one of the things is hammered.
48:19
It's already been 19 minutes. It's going to refire.
48:22
It's going to take another 15 minutes.
48:24
Oh my God, what are we going to do?
48:26
I'm going in a mental hijack. I'm pissed off.
48:29
Oh my God, is the is the next piece of meat tempered like
48:32
where we at? And I think that kind of moment
48:34
where you're just like, I'm about to lose it and I no longer
48:39
have control. That is mental hijack.
48:41
And so I think something we talked about a lot with our sous
48:44
chefs and just our team in general is when you start
48:47
feeling yourself overwhelmed, just take a deep breath and try
48:52
to reset and make sure you have control over your mind and your
48:55
emotions. Don't take over because that is
48:57
when the yelling, the screaming, whatever that happens.
49:00
And so I think staying, and it's hard when you're in intense
49:02
service and you have people you really want to impress.
49:05
That is a great challenge. But the more we become aware of
49:10
our own emotions, the better leaders we're going to be.
49:12
Yeah, I agree. I agree.
49:13
It's a it's a complicated business.
49:15
You have the, the the restaurant business.
49:17
It's always going to be the people business always, right.
49:20
You're dealing with people that you work until the robots take
49:22
over, but you're still going to deal with people in the kitchen
49:25
cooking. You're still going to be serving
49:26
people, and the better you are at working with people, I think
49:31
the more successful you'll be in your career as a cook, as a
49:36
chef, as a restaurateur, whatever the case might be in
49:38
hospitality in general, it's still the people business.
49:40
Our job's great at that, by the way.
49:42
He is, he is a talented guy at that.
49:44
And I, I think it's funny. You joke about technology and
49:47
the robots and you kind of joke about this too sometimes about
49:50
AI. Our cooks are like, yeah, we're
49:53
good. We're we're good because we do
49:55
something that's kind of specialized, like I think the
49:57
robots might take over from McDonald's.
49:59
But for cooking the food we cook, it's there's always going
50:02
to be a market for that. So I think our our team feels,
50:06
yeah, feels good about that. Well, I, I think, I think what's
50:08
interesting about birdies, what's interesting about you is
50:11
if I'm going to birdies because I want to have your food, you
50:14
know, I don't want to have, and I don't care if it's different
50:17
every time. By the way, if you're cooking
50:19
it, you know what? You know what I mean?
50:22
But the robot, it's like, well, I'm going because I want the
50:25
McDonald's hamburger and I want my big back to be right.
50:27
Yeah, and the same every time. Every time.
50:29
Don't change it. I'm not going to McDonald's
50:31
because I wanted to be different and I wanted to get the
50:33
expression of the line cook at McDonald's that day or the line
50:36
robot. No, but when I go to birdies, I
50:39
want you to cook. I don't, I don't care if it's
50:41
something that you're just trying out.
50:43
Like your food's good and I know when you cook it's going to be
50:46
delicious because you're a great, you're a phenomenal chef.
50:49
Thank you anyway, we we're all over the place today.
50:53
But let me let me ask you. So when we get to my my closing
50:56
questions, if you had a bucket list of chefs that you'd want to
51:04
cook for you, living or dead, who would you want?
51:08
Then you give me a few, give me one or you give me a couple.
51:10
Who would you want to cook for you?
51:17
And ideally people that you've never had their food.
51:21
I would say Roger Burger. I would say
51:40
this might be controversial. Jamie Oliver.
51:43
I just love the way he cooks. Like I love simple,
51:47
straightforward, confident cooking.
51:49
So yeah, 1 French nouvelle chef and Jamie Oliver.
51:56
OK, let's let's talk some some station setup on your station.
52:01
What is the the standard kitchen all-purpose salt for the kitchen
52:05
like your diamond, diamond, crystal and for finishing?
52:09
Malden. Malden, what about do you have a
52:13
go to acid or is it I I'm sure it's probably case by case, like
52:18
maybe, you know, like you said earlier, banials for for maybe
52:21
the salad, maybe lemon for something else.
52:22
But in general, if it's on your station at the pass and you're
52:24
finishing what, what's it going? To be we use a lot of lemon at
52:27
birdies Yeah, yeah. I mean, if something's Italian
52:31
will kind of like a lot of red wine vinegar kind of depends on
52:33
that region. French Sherry vinegar.
52:36
I love Sherry vinegar Yeah, I love champagne vinegar, but if I
52:42
had to pick 1 lemon. How?
52:43
Do you do your plate wipes at birdies?
52:45
We use linen likes and water a tiny bit of distilled vinegar.
52:52
There's a ratio I don't know off the top of my head.
52:54
And then bring them out just enough so they're moist but not
52:59
too wet but not too dry. Nice, and what about the tape?
53:03
What color of tape are you using in the?
53:04
We use green, used green. I used to be blue.
53:07
Yeah, why did you change? I used to be blue and I was pro
53:10
blue and then I shifted to green one because someone made the
53:14
comment. They're like, well, that's what
53:15
they do at the French Laundry because you can see it better.
53:18
It makes sense. You can see it from a distance,
53:19
what it says. And I was like, yeah, I agree
53:22
with that. So we shifted to green.
53:24
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm with you.
53:26
I was a blue person for a very long time.
53:27
Actually, I was a blue person my entire culinary career.
53:31
I've changed a green post culinary career.
53:34
So now when I do I guess chef dinner or something like that,
53:37
I, I go to green tape. But yeah, culinary career, most
53:41
of it was blue tape. But now I, I've, I've changed my
53:43
opinion on it. If you had to teach the audience
53:47
that's listening right now something that's maybe unique to
53:50
you or to your style of cooking or the way that you run your
53:53
kitchen that a lot of people don't do or a lot of people
53:56
don't know, that would significantly, significantly
53:58
impact the flavour or the end result of the cooking.
54:03
I say two things. One season threw out two
54:08
Understand cooking aromatics. If you don't cook your aromatics
54:14
enough, the flavor is never going to be fully developed and
54:18
it's going to taste flat. What?
54:19
Do you mean can you? Expect So for example, let me
54:22
just throw a soup out there because soup is a good example
54:24
of this. If you have, let's say, garlic,
54:28
shallots or onions, leeks, a mixture of or just one of them,
54:31
it doesn't matter and you're cooking always start with the
54:35
onions. We always start with the onions
54:37
and olive oil, season it with salt and start cooking.
54:42
It shouldn't cook if it cooks at a 10 out of a 10 high heat the
54:46
entire time it's it's not going to fully cook.
54:48
The outsides are going to start turning brown and you're not
54:50
going to fully get it. Sweat nicely and sweet.
54:55
We like to turn down the heat to around medium, stir it often and
54:59
just make sure it should taste almost like candy, fully cooked,
55:04
no texture. And then you add what's next.
55:06
So whether that's like the next vegetable, the glaze with wine,
55:09
if you're adding in that recipe, stock, aromatics, etcetera.
55:14
But the most important part, even before you get to pureeing
55:18
and everything, people think they need to blast the Vitamix
55:20
for like 20 minutes and it's like, no, no, no, no, that's not
55:23
how you make up a puree or a sauce or soup.
55:27
Creamy. You make it creamy.
55:29
I mean, you need a puree properly, yes, but you make it
55:31
creamy by properly cooking the vegetables before.
55:34
And you know, if you've got carrots or a vegetable where you
55:37
need to like also cook that out because you need to open up the
55:40
glucose and like let that pop. It's never going to taste the
55:42
same. If you just like, add stock,
55:44
throw in cold carrots and boil it.
55:46
It's just not. So I think understanding the
55:49
basic science of sweating a vegetable and what that does is
55:52
going to improve your cooking significantly.
55:55
There's such a value in the sweetness of vegetables.
55:58
Yeah, I agree. For your sake, when you add the
56:03
protein, so let's say you're putting a little ham in there or
56:05
something like that, or a little a little chicken or whatever in
56:09
the soup, at what point do you add that?
56:13
During the sweat Earlier, A little bit later?
56:14
Depends what it is, depends what the soup is.
56:17
I think, you know, if you're sweating pork, you know, add
56:22
that in after the onions or like almost cooked probably if
56:26
you're, you know, just steeping and like, I don't know, a chunk
56:30
of pork fat or pork sket, you know, that's a different thing
56:33
to add with the aromatics. It just kind of depends.
56:36
What's your take on roasting meat today?
56:37
So sorry, I've been talking to a lot about roasting meat, you
56:40
know, a little bit on the podcast, but a lot of
56:42
conversations off. And when I when I say roasting,
56:45
I mean bigger cuts are like a prime rib or, or, you know, a
56:48
Wellington or a rack of lamb or something like that, rack of
56:51
pork. What is your approach to
56:54
roasting meat? So you get like the perfect end
56:56
to end cook. Let's see so that birdies we we
57:02
cook, we don't cook like that a ton, but that's more so like a
57:06
home question for me. If I'm cooking a big cut, it
57:11
kind of depends what it is as well.
57:12
If there's so many like it depends.
57:14
I do like making sure it's, you know, fully fully tempered.
57:18
I like seasoning it early so it can permeate through the large
57:21
cut that it is. Are you?
57:24
Are you pepper earlier or later? I would probably definitely salt
57:30
it early so that gets in there and then probably pepper it
57:33
closer to cooking. I'm not a huge spice person.
57:39
I like spices. It depends what it is, but
57:40
typically black pepper with meat.
57:43
And then yeah, like if it's a prime rib, I would probably go,
57:46
I cooked a prime rib actually at, at Christmas and for my
57:50
family and Wyoming and, and I think I went, I just like really
57:55
low and then high heat at the end.
57:59
Yeah. I have reverse here, yeah.
58:01
If you will. Yeah, the kids call it that's.
58:03
What the kids are calling these days.
58:05
Yeah, I'm a fan of the reverse here.
58:08
Thank you for being on. Where can people find you on
58:10
social media and in real life? So you can find us in real life
58:15
at Bertie's 12th St. and Harvey in East Austin on Instagram.
58:20
I'm at Tracy Malachek and at Bertie's Austin is our
58:24
Instagram. Awesome.
58:25
It was good, good having you here.
58:26
So had our job for me and because I don't think I've seen
58:29
you both since the James Beard Awards.
58:31
Congratulate. Congratulations to both of you
58:34
for the for the award and all that for our job as well.
58:36
So. Thank you.
58:37
I appreciate that. You're welcome.
58:39
Well, I hope you enjoyed the show.
58:40
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59:01
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59:05
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59:06
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