Latest / Why Humans Lie / The Surgeon Who Rewrote a Man's Life: Consent Forged, Trust Stolen
Transcript
- 0:03Speaker 1: The form was dated forty seven months before the clinic
- 0:06Speaker 1: had a license to exist. It was signed, it wasn authorized,
- 0:11Speaker 1: and it was hidden inside a gallon ziplock back tucked
- 0:15Speaker 1: between insulation and a concrete slab under a building. The
- 0:19Speaker 1: signer had never entered as a patient. By the time
- 0:22Speaker 1: investigators understood what they were holding, one man had lost
- 0:27Speaker 1: everything he had spent twenty two years building, and a
- 0:30Speaker 1: surgeon named Jean Barrett had already prepared her next move.
- 0:35Speaker 1: There is something specific about this case that resists easy categories.
- 0:39Speaker 1: It is not a story about a crime of passion
- 0:42Speaker 1: or a moment of poor judgment. It is a story
- 0:44Speaker 1: about the slow architectural dismantling of one person's reality by
- 0:49Speaker 1: another built procedure by procedure, invoice by invoice, over the
- 0:54Speaker 1: course of years. The document that cracked it open was
- 0:58Speaker 1: not found by a detective. Was found by a utility
- 1:01Speaker 1: cooperative worker named Melissa Carlson on a Tuesday in the
- 1:05Speaker 1: second week of May, searching for a corroded splice in
- 1:08Speaker 1: a Harlow Street crawl space. She was not looking for evidence.
- 1:13Speaker 1: She was looking for a bad connection in an electrical line.
- 1:17Speaker 1: What she found instead was a folder inside eleven surgical
- 1:21Speaker 1: consent forms, all signed by the same man, all bearing
- 1:25Speaker 1: the header of a medical clinic, all pre dating that
- 1:28Speaker 1: clinics legal existence. Before the month was out, a surgeon
- 1:32Speaker 1: would be in handcuffs. Before six weeks passed, she would
- 1:36Speaker 1: be talking. This is what happened in between. David Olson
- 1:40Speaker 1: had built the kind of life that does not announce itself.
- 1:44Speaker 1: He was fifty four years old when investigators first pulled
- 1:47Speaker 1: his financial records. He worked as a project estimator at
- 1:50Speaker 1: a commercial roofing firm in Dunmore, a mid sized river city,
- 1:54Speaker 1: where he had held the same position for twenty two years.
- 1:58Speaker 1: He was not wealthy, was not prominent. He owned his home.
- 2:02Speaker 1: He had a retirement account that had grown carefully and
- 2:05Speaker 1: without drama, to just over four hundred thousand dollars. He
- 2:10Speaker 1: had a daughter named Nora. He had been divorced for
- 2:12Speaker 1: some years, and he had a ritual every Thursday morning
- 2:16Speaker 1: before the work week finished its pull on him. He
- 2:19Speaker 1: sat at the same table at Pell's Diner on Archer
- 2:22Speaker 1: Avenue and had breakfast. He paid in person. He knew
- 2:26Speaker 1: the staff by name. That ritual would disappear, not abruptly,
- 2:31Speaker 1: not because of any argument or crisis, it would simply stop, quietly,
- 2:36Speaker 1: absorbed into a new set of priorities that were not
- 2:40Speaker 1: entirely his own. The person who reshaped those priorities was
- 2:44Speaker 1: Jean Barrett. Barrett was a surgeon. She operated at first
- 2:49Speaker 1: out of a structure on Harlow Street, a converted Victorian
- 2:52Speaker 1: building she owned with a ground floor medical suite and
- 2:55Speaker 1: an upstairs apartment. The property assessor's office listed as a
- 3:00Speaker 1: single family residence. There was no exterior signage that matched
- 3:04Speaker 1: a registered medical entity, no staff directory, no visible administrative
- 3:10Speaker 1: presence that would suggest a practice of any scale. The
- 3:13Speaker 1: two met six years before the investigation opened, late summer
- 3:17Speaker 1: a roadside breakdown Barrett's vehicle a fuel pump failure. Olson,
- 3:22Speaker 1: the one who stopped Barrett, would later testify that the
- 3:26Speaker 1: encounter was coincidental. The record would raise questions the transcript
- 3:30Speaker 1: did not answer. Two weeks after that meeting, Olson called
- 3:35Speaker 1: Barrett about a mole, a benign one. He assumed he
- 3:39Speaker 1: was looking for reassurance, not intervention. What he received instead
- 3:44Speaker 1: was a process. Barrett conducted what she described as a
- 3:47Speaker 1: comprehensive initial consultation over three sessions costing twelve hundred dollars total.
- 3:53Speaker 1: She produced a twelve page written report cataloging what she
- 3:57Speaker 1: identified as seven areas of concerncer in Olsen's physical health,
- 4:03Speaker 1: seven for a man who had stopped in to ask
- 4:05Speaker 1: about a mold on his shoulder. The report was detailed.
- 4:09Speaker 1: It named structures, cited ranges, used the full weight of
- 4:13Speaker 1: clinical vocabulary, and it concluded gently, professionally that several of
- 4:19Speaker 1: these concerns warranted closer attention. Barrett positioned herself as the
- 4:23Speaker 1: one best suited to provide it. This is what investigators
- 4:27Speaker 1: later called the entry mechanism. Create a concern, name it
- 4:31Speaker 1: with authority, make the patient feel fortunate to have someone
- 4:35Speaker 1: paying this level of attention, and then begin. The first
- 4:39Speaker 1: three procedures were unremarkable in isolation. A lipoma removal, a
- 4:44Speaker 1: deviated septum correction, a diagnostic laparoscopy. Each one followed naturally
- 4:50Speaker 1: from the last. Each one was presented as the logical
- 4:53Speaker 1: next step in managing a body that, according to Barrett's framing,
- 4:57Speaker 1: required ongoing management. Paid, he trusted, and he began gradually
- 5:04Speaker 1: to see the world through the interpretation Barrett provided. By
- 5:08Speaker 1: year two, Nora Olsen noticed something had shifted in her father.
- 5:13Speaker 1: She could not name it precisely. He was less reachable,
- 5:16Speaker 1: less inclined to push back on things that would previously
- 5:19Speaker 1: have drawn a response. He had stopped his Thursday breakfast
- 5:23Speaker 1: not because anything dramatic had happened, but because Barrett had
- 5:27Speaker 1: suggested at some point that the diner crowds were not
- 5:30Speaker 1: ideal given his current recovery protocols. Norah raised her concern.
- 5:35Speaker 1: She was, according to later accounts, one of the few
- 5:38Speaker 1: people who took what she saw in her father seriously
- 5:41Speaker 1: enough to name it out loud. She was, also, according
- 5:45Speaker 1: to the mechanisms Barrett had already said in motion, exactly
- 5:48Speaker 1: the kind of outside relationship that needed to be managed.
- 5:52Speaker 1: Triangulation works quietly. It does not announce itself. It simply
- 5:57Speaker 1: makes the people who love you see over time like
- 6:00Speaker 1: sources of interference rather than sources of care. Nora Olson
- 6:05Speaker 1: did not disappear from her father's life, but the frequency
- 6:08Speaker 1: of their contact changed. Her concerns when she raised them
- 6:12Speaker 1: were met with explanations she could not easily argue against
- 6:16Speaker 1: clinical language recovery protocols. The weight of a surgeon's authority
- 6:21Speaker 1: translated into reasons why her worry was itself the problem.
- 6:26Speaker 1: This is the mechanism investigators later documented as the third
- 6:29Speaker 1: phase of what Barrett constructed around David Olson, not isolation
- 6:33Speaker 1: by force, isolation by interpretation. Barrett did not tell Olson
- 6:38Speaker 1: to stop talking to his daughter. She told him, in effect,
- 6:42Speaker 1: that the people around him did not understand what his
- 6:45Speaker 1: body was going through, that they meant well, that their concern, however, genuine,
- 6:51Speaker 1: was producing stress that interfered with healing. By year three,
- 6:55Speaker 1: Olson had stopped seeing his regular physician, not abruptly, gradually,
- 7:01Speaker 1: Barrett had become the interpreter of every signal his body produced.
- 7:05Speaker 1: Any question he might have brought to another doctor, he
- 7:08Speaker 1: brought to her instead. Seventeen invoices. That is the number
- 7:12Speaker 1: that surfaces first when you look at what Olson's billing
- 7:15Speaker 1: records contained. Seventeen procedure invoices across the span of the relationship.
- 7:21Speaker 1: Some were mailed to his home address, eleven were not
- 7:25Speaker 1: those eleven were mailed to Harlow Street. Harlow Street was
- 7:29Speaker 1: Barrett's address the Converted Victorian. She owned and operated from
- 7:34Speaker 1: ground floor medical suite, upstairs apartment. The whole building listed
- 7:38Speaker 1: by the county Assessor as a single family residence. When
- 7:41Speaker 1: investigators examined those eleven invoice entries, they found something that
- 7:46Speaker 1: did not fit the rest of the administrative record. The
- 7:49Speaker 1: entries appeared to have been manually entered by some one
- 7:52Speaker 1: with billing access, some one who controlled the administrative side
- 7:56Speaker 1: of the practice. Olson received his copies of the inn voices,
- 8:00Speaker 1: he paid them. He never questioned why some correspondence routed
- 8:04Speaker 1: through an address that was not his. Here is where
- 8:07Speaker 1: the numbers begin to fracture the picture that Barrett had constructed.
- 8:11Speaker 1: State Health Board records showed fifteen procedures logged for ULSA
- 8:16Speaker 1: under Lakeview Ambulatory Partners during its licensed period. Lakeview had
- 8:21Speaker 1: been incorporated in year four of the relationship. Fifteen was
- 8:25Speaker 1: the official count, but the bank records showed payments consistent
- 8:29Speaker 1: with seventeen procedures. Two procedures existed in the financial record
- 8:34Speaker 1: that did not exist in the licensed record. The payments
- 8:36Speaker 1: for those two, totaling approximately thirty one thousand dollars, corresponded
- 8:42Speaker 1: to dates that pre dated Lakeview's state licensure, and the
- 8:46Speaker 1: funds did not route to Lakeview at all. They routed
- 8:50Speaker 1: to Barrett's prior LLC, the one that had since been
- 8:54Speaker 1: dissolved a practice that officially did not exist yet had
- 8:57Speaker 1: already billed twice. This is the image that stopped Laura Whitfield,
- 9:02Speaker 1: not the large number, the specific routing. The money went
- 9:07Speaker 1: somewhere deliberate. It went to an entity that was, by
- 9:11Speaker 1: the time investigators were looking at it, legally gone, dissolved,
- 9:15Speaker 1: filed away, unreachable through normal audit channels, except that the
- 9:20Speaker 1: money was already there. Whitfield pulled the consent forms eleven
- 9:24Speaker 1: forms in the folder Melissa Carlson had found in the
- 9:27Speaker 1: crawl space. Eleven forms, all signed by David Olsen, all
- 9:31Speaker 1: bearing the Lakeview Ambulatory Partner's header. The forms were stored
- 9:36Speaker 1: in a gallon ziplock bag inside a Manila folder, pressed
- 9:40Speaker 1: between insulation and concrete slab. The seventh form, the one
- 9:45Speaker 1: that would become Exhibit seven, was dated forty seven months
- 9:49Speaker 1: before Lakeview received its state license. The ink was not faded.
- 9:53Speaker 1: A consent form for a procedure performed under a practice
- 9:57Speaker 1: that did not yet legally exist, stored under a bill building
- 10:00Speaker 1: Barett owned in a bag sealed well enough to preserve
- 10:04Speaker 1: the ink. The document did not look like something hidden
- 10:07Speaker 1: in panic. It looked like something placed carefully by someone
- 10:11Speaker 1: who understood that documents have weight, and that weight, under
- 10:15Speaker 1: the right conditions, can be buried. Paul Decker had filed
- 10:18Speaker 1: his report the previous summer. He was Olsen's financial adviser,
- 10:22Speaker 1: and what he saw in the account statements did not
- 10:25Speaker 1: fit any pattern he recognized as voluntary. The retirement account
- 10:29Speaker 1: had carried more than four hundred thousand dollars at its baseline.
- 10:33Speaker 1: By the time Decker raised the alarm, it was approaching
- 10:36Speaker 1: levels that could not be explained by ordinary draw down.
- 10:39Speaker 1: Decker filed with the Elder Exploitation Hotline. Olson was fifty four,
- 10:44Speaker 1: not elderly by the hotline's standard classification. Decker filed anyway.
- 10:49Speaker 1: The depletion was not the behavior of a man making
- 10:52Speaker 1: considered financial decisions. It was the behavior of a man
- 10:55Speaker 1: who had handed the interpretation of his needs to someone else.
- 11:00Speaker 1: No single withdrawal triggered the alert. That was the design.
- 11:04Speaker 1: The payments were consistent with legitimate medical billing. They arrived
- 11:08Speaker 1: in amounts that corresponded to procedure costs. Nothing looked fraudulent
- 11:12Speaker 1: from the outside because from the outside, every payment had
- 11:16Speaker 1: a form attached to it. The forms were the architecture,
- 11:21Speaker 1: the consent forms, the invoices, the clinical language in the
- 11:25Speaker 1: twelve page report. These were not by products of a
- 11:28Speaker 1: medical relationship. They were the structural materials of a constructed reality,
- 11:33Speaker 1: a reality in which David Olsen's body was something requiring
- 11:37Speaker 1: constant management and John Barrett was the only person qualified
- 11:41Speaker 1: to manage it. Carlson found the folder on a Tuesday.
- 11:45Speaker 1: Whitfield had the consent forms by that Friday. By the
- 11:48Speaker 1: following Thursday, Barrett was in custody. But seventeen days after
- 11:53Speaker 1: Carlson's discovery, a Health Board auditor named Sandra Fitch flagged
- 11:58Speaker 1: something from a different county entirely. Philip Navarro was sixty one,
- 12:03Speaker 1: retired school administrator Kellam County. He had undergone nine procedures
- 12:09Speaker 1: at Barrett's prior LLC over four years nine, and he
- 12:15Speaker 1: had filed a complaint, a complaint that had been closed
- 12:18Speaker 1: as insufficiently documented. Navarro was still symptomatic when investigators reached him,
- 12:24Speaker 1: still attributing what he felt to Barrett's final procedure. He
- 12:28Speaker 1: had not connected what was happening in his body to
- 12:31Speaker 1: anything actionable. He had nowhere to connect it to. The
- 12:35Speaker 1: complaint had been closed. The LC had been dissolved. Barrett
- 12:40Speaker 1: had moved on. Fitch's flag linked two histories that had
- 12:43Speaker 1: been kept in separate jurisdictions under separate administrative structures across
- 12:48Speaker 1: the gap of a dissolved business entity. When they were
- 12:51Speaker 1: placed side by side, the picture they formed was not ambiguous.
- 12:56Speaker 1: This had happened before. Picture. The storage facility in the
- 12:59Speaker 1: neighboring town a row of identical orange doors, one of
- 13:03Speaker 1: them rented under a name that no longer matched any
- 13:06Speaker 1: active license, any registered practice, any current identity that a
- 13:10Speaker 1: routine search would surface. Barrett disclosed that location as part
- 13:15Speaker 1: of her co operation agreement. She had entered a not
- 13:18Speaker 1: guilty plea at arraignment. Within six weeks that position changed.
- 13:23Speaker 1: What she offered in exchange was the address of a
- 13:26Speaker 1: second document, cash billing records filed under her former married name,
- 13:32Speaker 1: sitting in a unit that no one was looking for
- 13:35Speaker 1: because no one knew it existed. The records were there
- 13:39Speaker 1: when investigators arrived, exactly as described. Consider what that means.
- 13:45Speaker 1: The documents were not destroyed. They were not shredded, burned, scattered.
- 13:50Speaker 1: They were filed, organized, stored in a unit rented under
- 13:54Speaker 1: a name that had no obvious connection to Jean Barrett,
- 13:57Speaker 1: unless you already knew to look for it. One reading
- 14:01Speaker 1: of that fact is that Barrett intended to return to them,
- 14:04Speaker 1: that the records were an asset, not a liability, usable
- 14:08Speaker 1: perhaps in ways that the investigation interrupted. Another reading is
- 14:13Speaker 1: simpler and harder. The records were kept because Barrett had
- 14:17Speaker 1: kept records before, because a practice that spans years and
- 14:21Speaker 1: multiple patients requires administration. Because the same instinct that produced
- 14:25Speaker 1: twelve page clinical reports and carefully routed invoices also produced
- 14:30Speaker 1: filing systems. Both readings arrive at the same place. There
- 14:34Speaker 1: were two patients, there were two document caches, there were
- 14:38Speaker 1: two l LC structures, one dissolved, one licensed, and the
- 14:43Speaker 1: money that moved between them followed a path that required
- 14:47Speaker 1: planning across years. The head fake in this case is
- 14:51Speaker 1: the consent form itself. The document that launched the investigation
- 14:55Speaker 1: looked at first like the central evidence proof of a
- 14:59Speaker 1: single act of a date falsified on a single four.
- 15:03Speaker 1: The prosecution would use it as Exhibit seven, and it
- 15:06Speaker 1: would carry the weight that physical evidence carries when it
- 15:08Speaker 1: should not exist. But the consent form was not the crime.
- 15:13Speaker 1: It was the record of a system The fraud was
- 15:15Speaker 1: not the backdated signature. The fraud was the architecture that
- 15:19Speaker 1: made the signature necessary. The billing routes, the dissolved LLC,
- 15:24Speaker 1: the off site storage, the managed isolation of a man
- 15:27Speaker 1: who had stopped seeing any other doctor by procedure IV.
- 15:31Speaker 1: The judge's statement at sentencing named it precisely sustained methodical
- 15:36Speaker 1: exploitation of a patient's trust over a period of years,
- 15:39Speaker 1: using the authority of medical expertise as both the instrument
- 15:42Speaker 1: of control and the barrier to detection. The instrument of
- 15:46Speaker 1: control the barrier to detection, both at once. That is
- 15:51Speaker 1: the mechanism. The same expertise that made Ulsen trust Bart
- 15:55Speaker 1: was the expertise that made it nearly impossible for him
- 15:58Speaker 1: to question her. You do not argue with the person
- 16:01Speaker 1: who named what is wrong with you. You do not
- 16:04Speaker 1: push back against the one who found things no one
- 16:07Speaker 1: else saw. David Olsen testified at sentencing. The record does
- 16:11Speaker 1: not detail what he said, but he was there. He
- 16:14Speaker 1: stood in a courtroom and spoke into a record that
- 16:17Speaker 1: will outlast the relationship, the invoices, the procedures, and the
- 16:21Speaker 1: twelve page report that started it all. Philip Navarro was
- 16:25Speaker 1: still symptomatic. No separate charges had been confirmed in connection
- 16:31Speaker 1: with his outcome. The complaint he had filed years earlier
- 16:34Speaker 1: remained closed, as it was originally classified the LC it
- 16:39Speaker 1: named no longer existed. What remained was a sixty one
- 16:43Speaker 1: year old man in Kellum County living with something he
- 16:46Speaker 1: could not yet attach to a resolved accountability. The cooperation
- 16:50Speaker 1: agreement came within six weeks of the not guilty clam.
- 16:54Speaker 1: Barrett disclosed the location of a second cache of billing
- 16:57Speaker 1: documents a storage facility in a neighboring town. The files
- 17:01Speaker 1: indexed under her former married name. Investigators drove there and
- 17:06Speaker 1: found exactly what she said they would find. The records
- 17:10Speaker 1: were present. They had been waiting. Eleven counts of health
- 17:14Speaker 1: care fraud, two counts of financial exploitation, one count of
- 17:18Speaker 1: practicing medicine outside a licensed framework. Those were the charges
- 17:23Speaker 1: that survived to sentencing. The sentencing is completed. The transcript
- 17:28Speaker 1: does not specify the length of the term. What the
- 17:30Speaker 1: record does preserve is the judge's language, which is precise
- 17:35Speaker 1: enough to stand without annotation. Sustained methodical exploitation of a
- 17:39Speaker 1: patient's trust over a period of years, using the authority
- 17:43Speaker 1: of medical expertise as both the instrument of control and
- 17:46Speaker 1: the barrier to detection. That phrase, both the instrument and
- 17:50Speaker 1: the barrier is the structural fact of the case. Barrett's
- 17:54Speaker 1: medical authority was not merely the cover story. It was
- 17:58Speaker 1: the mechanism. Olsen could not question the findings because questioning
- 18:03Speaker 1: required the same knowledge that generated them. By the time
- 18:06Speaker 1: he might have sought a second opinion, the architecture around
- 18:10Speaker 1: him had already made that impulse feel disloyal, even dangerous
- 18:14Speaker 1: to his health. Exhibit seven entered the record the back
- 18:18Speaker 1: dated consent form retrieved from a gallon ziplock bag inside
- 18:22Speaker 1: a Manila folder, pressed between insulation and concrete slab in
- 18:27Speaker 1: the crawl space of a building. Barrett owned, a document
- 18:31Speaker 1: dated forty seven months before the clinic it named had
- 18:34Speaker 1: been licensed by the state. The ink investigators noted showed
- 18:38Speaker 1: no fading consistent with its claimed age. Seventeen procedures invoiced,
- 18:43Speaker 1: fifteen logged in state Health Board records, two payments totaling
- 18:48Speaker 1: approximately thirty one thousand dollars routed to an account that
- 18:53Speaker 1: no longer legally existed. The math of the gap between
- 18:56Speaker 1: what was billed and what was licensed is not compt
- 19:01Speaker 1: It is simply the number of times someone handed over
- 19:04Speaker 1: trust before the system caught the discrepancy. David Olsen's retirement
- 19:09Speaker 1: account had held more than four hundred thousand dollars in May,
- 19:13Speaker 1: when Melissa Carlson found the folder, it held eleven thousand.
- 19:18Speaker 1: Philip Navarro remained in Kellam County symptomatic. The complaint he
- 19:22Speaker 1: had filed years earlier was still classified as it had
- 19:26Speaker 1: originally been closed insufficiently documented. The lc that had built
- 19:31Speaker 1: him for nine procedures over four years no longer existed
- 19:35Speaker 1: as a legal entity. No separate charges had been confirmed
- 19:38Speaker 1: in connection with his outcome. Sandra Fitch had flagged his
- 19:42Speaker 1: file seventeen days after Carlson's discovery, and investigators had spoken
- 19:47Speaker 1: with him, and the record of that contact existed. What
- 19:51Speaker 1: the record could not give him was resolution. There are
- 19:56Speaker 1: two people in this case who never got an answer
- 19:59Speaker 1: that closed any Nora Olson, who noticed a change in
- 20:03Speaker 1: her father in the second year and could not name
- 20:06Speaker 1: what she was seeing. And Philip Navarro, who finaled a
- 20:09Speaker 1: complaint and watched it disappear into a category called insufficiently
- 20:14Speaker 1: document and then kept living inside symptoms He could not
- 20:17Speaker 1: yet attach to an accountability that had been confirmed elsewhere
- 20:22Speaker 1: but not for him. What made this possible was not
- 20:25Speaker 1: a single failure. It was a sequence of ordinary looking moments,
- 20:30Speaker 1: each one defensible in isolation. A roadside encounter in late summer,
- 20:35Speaker 1: a phone call about a mole, a three session consultation,
- 20:39Speaker 1: a twelve page report, seven areas of concern, a suggestion
- 20:43Speaker 1: delivered with clinical authority. The Thursday breakfast at Pell's diner
- 20:48Speaker 1: might be interfering with recovery. Each of those moments examined
- 20:51Speaker 1: alone looks like medicine. Examined together, across six years, they
- 20:57Speaker 1: form a single, continuous act of replacement. Barrett did not
- 21:01Speaker 1: take anything from Olson that he did not hand over willingly,
- 21:04Speaker 1: because she had spent years making willingness feel like the
- 21:08Speaker 1: only rational response. That is the mechanism the judge named.
- 21:12Speaker 1: That is what the instruments of trust turned inward can do.
- 21:16Speaker 1: Melissa Carlson was looking for a corroded splice. She found
- 21:20Speaker 1: something that had been hidden under a building for long
- 21:23Speaker 1: enough that whoever put it there may have believed it
- 21:26Speaker 1: would simply remain hidden. It did not. A Tuesday in
- 21:30Speaker 1: the second week of May, a utility cooperative worker crouched
- 21:33Speaker 1: in a crawl space, and the architecture of six years
- 21:36Speaker 1: began to come apart. David Olsen stood in a court
- 21:40Speaker 1: room and spoke. The record does not transcribe what he said.
- 21:44Speaker 1: He was fifty four years old, with eleven thousand dollars
- 21:48Speaker 1: left in an account that had once held a retirement
- 21:51Speaker 1: and a daughter who had been watching and waiting for
- 21:54Speaker 1: years for someone to confirm what she already knew. He
- 21:58Speaker 1: was there. His voice is in the record. That is
- 22:02Speaker 1: not nothing. This show is made by Obomedia.