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The Secret Weapon You NEED When Going Through Divorce · Pursuit of Sassiness

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to I Do Part Two. It's Bachelor
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Nation alum Courtney Robertson taking over and I am excited. Today,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I get to pick the brain of a woman who
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: maybe has one of the most unique jobs I've ever
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: heard of. She's a divorce coach and a certified divorce mediator. Yes,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: please sign me up. She hosts the podcast, The Ugly
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Truth of Divorce. Help me welcome back to our show,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Samantha Boss.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: How's it going?
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I've never been better. How are you?
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: That sounded fake. I'm good.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: So welcome back to our show, Samantha Boss. Samantha, will
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: you marry me? I know you have been through a
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: high-conflict divorce yourself. I've heard you were involved in over, what,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: 300 filings and cost over $ 100, 000. I'm only a few
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: months into mine, and we just spoke briefly before we
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: hit record. But I can already understand how things get
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: so out of control, really. Yeah. But I mean, so
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: you've been through a very... I know you don't like
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: the word contentious. I've listened to all of your podcasts,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: which you are doing the Lord's work because it's helped me.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It's also like something that I don't know that I
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: want to share because... I don't know. Like you're a
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: secret weapon to a lot of people. Right.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I know. And I just had a case the other
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: day where I found out both sides were using me
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: at the same time, which I think is a blessing.
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: At least you've been, you know, both people have been
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: well-versed on what I think are the expectations of how
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: to do this. But yeah, I went through a high
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: conflict divorce. It was a couple of decades ago. I've
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: helped a lot of people since then. And I've learned
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: a lot. I think with age comes perspective and wisdom.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: And I've raised one whole set of kids who being
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: a divorced parent and now they're 22 and 20 and
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: they're part of my business and helping parents understand what
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: kids are going through in a high conflict dynamic. And
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: then now with my unicorn husband, Bear, I have two
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: small children. So I have like a whole new, I've
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: never raised kids with somebody before that actually loves and
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: respects me. So this is a whole new wheelhouse having
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: two more kids with somebody and doing it together versus
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: a single parent in a high conflict dynamic. So I've
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: seen both sides of the coin. I've been on both
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: sides of the table. And I just feel like I
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: have a lot to share and a lot of wisdom
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: to give other parents that are going through a divorce
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: in general, but also a divorce that might be high
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: conflict where both parties aren't getting along.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Well, up to date here, I just want to share,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I filed on July 4th, Independence Day.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I've got three little kids.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: If you're here, you've probably heard the last couple episodes
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I've done, but we are not getting along to say
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: the least. The locks were changed. I have an order
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: of protection. I haven't had any of my belongings. I
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: have since established a new residence. And I feel, like
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I said earlier, you don't like the word high conflict
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: or narcissist. I've listened to all of your episodes, which
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: if you're going through this, and obviously my situation's a
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: little bit different because I am somewhat in the public
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: eye and I've talked about it. And you kind of
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: touched on the fact that you went through this decades ago.
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: Decades ago.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: So you were probably like, what, on the MySpace side
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: of things?
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: It was definitely the MySpace. Facebook had just come out.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I Facebook was like brand new. And so all of
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: social media nowadays, I can't even imagine the ploy to
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: want to put stuff on the internet because it's how
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: we live every day. We're posting pictures of our kids.
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: We're doing stories on Instagram. Like we're sharing what we eat, how,
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: where we go and the divorce is part of your life.
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: But I can't imagine posting it. And I see it
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  Speaker 3: all the time. I'm all over social media myself and I'm,
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  Speaker 3: I'm consumed by with the amount of parents going through
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  Speaker 3: a divorce with a custody battle, contingents and high conflict
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: on top of that, that are posting about it and
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  Speaker 3: talking about it and not in a like, man, I'm
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: going through something, But can you believe what my ex did?
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: And here's a text message screen and a screenshot of it.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: And here's what happened yesterday. I cannot imagine the fallout
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: that that could possibly have on a negative level in
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: your case, because we have to think about in a
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: custody battle in family court, you have a judge determining
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  Speaker 3: what happens with your future, with your children and your finances.
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  Speaker 3: And this judge is purely going off of their instinct,
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  Speaker 3: their judgment, what they see and what they hear and
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  Speaker 3: how they feel that day. And that's a very scary
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  Speaker 3: thing if you're getting a judge that's a baby boomer,
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  Speaker 3: a Gen X, and maybe they're not into social media.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And then they hear about how you've made 17 posts
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: in the last two months about your ex in a
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: negative light, they may judge you for that. And that's
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: not how I wanna lose my kids just because I
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: made a post. So I am always telling parents, get
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: a best friend, get in a support group, have another
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: way to vocalize what's happening to you, to seek your validation,
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: to seek your peace, to get your story out, or
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: just journal it, or take notes about it now and
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: think once you're finally like after the divorce and you're regulated,
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: then maybe if you still feel compelled to post and
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: tell your story, okay, I waited till my kids were
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: way into their teenage years and 18 before I told
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: my story. And I had to have their permission to
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: because it was my story is their life. And so
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: there had to be this understanding that I'm going to
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: put some stuff out there that doesn't paint our whole
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: family as a great light, me included, them included. And
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  Speaker 3: so I just really edge of caution to any parent listening,
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  Speaker 3: really stop and think. How will this play out in
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: my court battle? But also what will my kids think
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  Speaker 3: when they're 32 and sitting with me at a restaurant
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  Speaker 3: and they ask a question of, hey, why did you
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: post our whole childhood on the internet?
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: That raises a really.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: Good point because my kids are somewhat on my social
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: media and I blocked my ex on social media because
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: of the order of protection and harassment and those sort
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: of things. And I have a podcast that is, I
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: have spoken about this to help other people, but like
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: you were talking about being regulated, I am still very
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: much in the thick of it. I'm actually currently coming
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: off of day five with the kids and we're going
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to get there. But I want to talk about the
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: fact that you're remarried because I keep telling people I would,
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to get married and it's so, I
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: am bleeding money. It's so expensive, stressful. Talk about pooping
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: your pants. I mean, holy mackerel, good night. But- you
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: got remarried. How long did that take? Because people keep saying,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: never say never, Courtney. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I never plan on getting married again. Could you speak
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: to that a little bit?
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's a couple of things. I think first
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: and foremost, when you're going through a divorce and co-parenting journey,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: especially reestablishing yourself alone in a home and taking care
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: of all the things and work and getting yourself regulated again,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: but also figuring out why didn't this work the first time?
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  Speaker 3: What about me? Did I enable, what did I not see?
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  Speaker 3: What did I not, what am I not okay with?
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  Speaker 3: Or did I have growth and we weren't just compatible anymore?
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  Speaker 3: I think being able to look and do your own
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  Speaker 3: self work is key to ever even thinking about moving on.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: And then there's the whole concept of is the person
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  Speaker 3: I'm picking even compatible with me and my kids and
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: the dynamic that how we run the show. I mean, when,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: when I met bear.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I love that name.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: Does he look like.
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  Speaker 3: He's six, five to 60? He he's sexy. He was
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: a 37 year old bachelor, never married, no debt, no
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: crazy exes. He's a unicorn. And me having two kids,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: a crazy ex-husband, a whole situation of being in and
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: out of court, total debt out my ass because of court.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Who would, who would want me?
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  Speaker 3: But here's the deal. I found him because I was
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: in the prime peak condition of myself. My body was good.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: My mind was good. My heart was good. My savings
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: was starting to grow. My debt was starting to decrease.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: I felt good. I didn't need anybody at that point.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: I was doing all the things I was mowing the
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: yard and doing the house and all of it. And
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: I was really confident. And so in walks this eye
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: candy five years younger than me. And I was like, yeah,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: you'll be fun to around with for a while or
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: play with for a while. And it turns out he
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: wanted kids and he didn't know that about himself. But
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: I think the key to all of that was I
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: was right with myself and I didn't need anyone. And
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: then when he came in, he complimented my situation and
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: he jumped right in with the kids. He stayed in
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  Speaker 3: the backseat. And this is what I love to talk about.
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: Bear was really good about staying in the backseat until
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I said, hey, join me in the front seat of parenting.
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: He stayed in the back and watched. Yeah, he stayed
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: back and watched. And I pulled him in sometimes when
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: I had to take a bathroom break and leave the car,
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: he would jump in. But for the most part, he
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: stayed in the back seat and observed for a long
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: time because their dad was still in their life. But
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: then when their dad left and it was just us,
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  Speaker 3: I moved him up to the front seat and man,
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: he was ready to go. So I think it's finding
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  Speaker 3: somebody that fits you and your situation, but you gotta
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: know who the hell you are first. And I think
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: when we jump from man to man, we just chameleon
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: ourselves to whatever they need and we fix them and
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: we jump into their lives. Bear jumped into our lives
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: and he adapted to what we were already doing as
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: a mom with two kids running the show. He just
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: kind of was a good compliment to our lives. So,
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: but it wouldn't have worked if I wasn't ready yet.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: I had to get myself right. 10 years. I single
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: parented for 10 years before I ever let anybody in
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  Speaker 3: the car. Okay.
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  Speaker 1: That makes, okay.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: That, okay.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Well, and I'm 43.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: I dated.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: Did you have fun dating? What was that like again?
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Because I've been getting asked out on dates. I took
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: my ring off. It's also the digital age now where
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: there's dating apps. God, I am not getting on the
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: dating apps. No.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, God, no. It's ridiculous what you will get. I mean,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: any woman that jumps on a dating app just gets bombarded.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: And it's shocking how... repulsive that can be. But I
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: think for me, I don't mind dating through divorce. I
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: don't mind dating through a beginning co-parenting journey, but you're
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: not ever going to really meet your match because you're
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: not who you need to be yet. When you're going
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: through the divorce process, you're in survival mode. You're in
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: fight or flight. Most of the time you're dysregulated most
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: of the time. And that's not, you're going to end
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: up tracking someone that's dysregulated. And doesn't have their life
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: together either because yours isn't. You match what you're giving.
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  Speaker 3: So if you're putting off and you're in a season
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: where you're not put together, you're going to attract not
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: put together. And that's not who you want long-term. So
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with dating and playing around, but I'm
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: not introducing my kids until I'm regulated and meet somebody
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: that is also regulated.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, gosh.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Well, you guys are both unicorns. So congratulations.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you. We've done a lot of work to
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: get here.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Well, that's where I'm at.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I'm in the rebuilding phase. And, you know, I am
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: definitely very much in the thick of it. Somebody, you know,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I don't want to share too much, but I have
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: been like, you know, it's been really hard navigating this
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: transition as far as like 50-50 time with my kids.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: And this is something that I would really like to
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: dive into is regulating them because now they're in a
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: new house. I'm the one that had to move. I'm
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: the one that's ostracized from my own residence and I'm
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: bleeding money on a new house. I had to furnish
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: it and attorney's fees, et cetera. I also might need
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to switch attorneys at some point because it's a little.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like the needle hasn't been.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: Moved at all, but that's a side note. But so
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the hardest part for me, I've had some good days
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: where I'm like, I feel like myself, I don't have anxiety.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: Like I haven't thrown up from anxiety or, you know,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: I don't sleep well at night because you wake up and,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm also dealing with infidelity. I've been with
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: this man for eight years. I live in Arizona. It's
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: a no fault state. There have been things drug into the,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: and also I'm dealing with an attorney. He has brought
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: things into the divorce filing that happened before I even
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: knew him.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Right. That's a very big strategy in a divorce for
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: anybody where when someone feels that you're going to change
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: their life, you ask for a divorce.
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: You, anybody that does that to their partner, you're asking
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: them to change their whole life, not just their household,
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: not just not seeing their kids, but their label. They're
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: a married man and now they're not a married man.
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: And then there's question of a, why aren't they married?
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: And so that identity of like what happened is going
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: to be labeled onto them and they don't want that.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: It's a narrative shift is the way that I, there's
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: a narrative shift.
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: How they're being perceived. And show is a big deal
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: for any man, for anybody going through divorce. I mean,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: you were also a mom and a married wife and
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: you had the house and you had it all. And
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: now you're a single mom and a new residence. And
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: so back to your original question about the transitions. It's
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: very hard for kids to transition from dysregulation to dysregulation.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Meaning if he's upset at his house and they're having
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: to walk on eggshells and pins and needles, and then
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: they come over to your house and you're super anxious,
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: lack of sleep, and you're paranoid about everything, kids are like,
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, nobody I'm around feels like a warm blanket.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Everybody feels like ice.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: I could cry right now thinking about it. It takes
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: me two days just to get them regulated.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: And that's normal. And that's normal. And everything you've said
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: is normal. That's called jet lag.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: You know, they have their little jet lag parenting hangover.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: What did they call it?
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Did you call it?
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: You said something like kids get little emotional hangovers too. Yes.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: And they're over there and maybe there's not a nightlight
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: like they always had, or there's something uncomfortable or just
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: the smell of you is not there. And that's a
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: lot for them to get used to. So they're getting
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: used to it right now. And they don't know how
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: to self-soothe. They don't know how to self-love over there.
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: They're not getting all the things they normally got over there.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: And then they're coming back to you literally on an
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: empty tank. And so when it takes two days, that's
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: you pouring and filling in their tank again of whatever
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: love language is missing, maybe food is missing. you know, their,
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: their favorite Snuggie or their show or their iPad they
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: haven't had or whatever it is, their regulation is off.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: And so your job when they come home, mom is
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: to be regulated. But the key takeaway here is you
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: have to be regulated to be able to pour into them.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: Otherwise you're just pouring dysregulation into them. You're pouring anxiety
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: and chaos into their cup. And then they're like, uh,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: this doesn't feel good either. Like, can somebody in my
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: life get their shit together? And I want to feel calm,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: like a warm blanket. So it's really important for your
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: listeners to understand when you go through divorce, you have
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: to find ways to cope with your stress because you
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: can't have your kids walking in the door after being
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: gone for two days and being like, okay, what kind
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: of mom am I walking into? Is she anxious? Is
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: she tired? Is she grouchy? Is she moody? Or this
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: is my least favorite one. And if this hits a nerve,
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. But the needy mom, the mom that says,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: oh my gosh, I miss you so much. Like, oh
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: my gosh, I've been so lost without you. I can't
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: believe you've been gone for two days. And the kid
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: is like, look, I'm walking in the door empty already
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: from being at the other house. And now I'm walking
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: in and you're empty mom. And now I have to
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: pour into what little I have left into you and
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: be like, Oh, I missed you too. Oh, I love you.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. It was so boring without you. I
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: hated being gone from you too. I can't believe I
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: have to go over. And now this kid is validating
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: your feelings. I don't like that mom. I want that
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: mom to be like, Hey, let me know when you're
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: ready to talk. Let me know if you did anything cool.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Otherwise I'm here in the couch. If you want some snuggles,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I'm here. Let the kids catch their bearings when they
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: walk in instead of being empty yourself. And then they're
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: having to pour into you.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: That is such great advice. And I usually, because we're,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: you know, this is something I've learned. I'm not an attorney.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I'm surrounded by them. Yes. And I initially, you know,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: we don't have a court-ordered parenting plan.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: I don't want to hear that. Every listener, when you
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: separate and leave homes and you separate, everybody should have
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: a temporary order from day one. That's not legal advice.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: That's common sense parenting 101, especially in a high conflict dynamic.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: But look at my jaws on the floor. So I propose,
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: and by the way, I'm dealing with an attorney. So
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: I initially proposed a 223 He has pushed and pushed
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: for a 5-2-2-3, which I'm learning on the fly. It's
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: like learning to be a mom. You learn as you go.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: And you talking about regulating them, it's really hard. My
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: batteries are charged when I get them because I know
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen later.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: I don't bad mouth the dad.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Um, I, you know, but I hear things that have
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: been picked up at the other house, which also hurts me,
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: hurts me, severs me, or what the mother-in-law said, or
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: they have, you know.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: What we, that's by design though. Let's remember that that's
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: by design. The other side, anybody of high conflict status, again,
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: you changed their life by saying to the world, I
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: want a divorce. So the only way to make the
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: pain stop is to make your pain greater. And the
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: way to do that is to talk about you in
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: a negative light, casually, purposefully, it doesn't matter, in front
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: of the children. They walk back over to your house.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: They repeat what they've heard, casually or directly.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Hurts me.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: It hurts you. And you have to realize you can't
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: take that personally. That's by design to throw you off.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Because then what happens? You get upset, whether emotionally or
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: just angry. And now you're performing not to your capacity
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: as mom. And now you're altering who you are at
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: your house in front of them. And the kids are like, wow,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: mom's being really edgy. She's really grouchy or wow. She
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: won't stop crying. And now you're not performing.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I think it's a tactic though.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Don't you think?
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Oh, a hundred percent because you hurt them with a divorce.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: So they're going to keep hurting you. My ex-husband hurt
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: me for a decade.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, so you're telling me there's a chance. I want
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: to get this wrapped up by the end of the month,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: but I'm realizing at just when I see Samantha, the
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: light at the end of the tunnel, I get kicked again.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: I get kicked while I'm down.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: Well, it is, it is by design because they want
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: to drag out the process because that means it's a
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: slow death by a thousand cuts on you bleeding money.
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: They know that because that's what happens. They'll bleed you
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: for money. That way you just make a rampant decision
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: at the end that you aren't really wanting, but you're broke.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: So you have to make the decision. That's why the
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: family court system is so screwed up. It's why judges
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: and lawyers make all this money and us parents walk
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: away broke. I mean, I spent that $ 100, 000 in 2008, 2009, 10.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: So now that would be like $ 300, 000 with the way
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: things are charging now.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm already up to about $ 10, 000 and I don't
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: even have a judge court ordered parenting plan.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: Well, to me, that's a fault of your attorneys of
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: also knowing that you guys are people of upper level
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: and they can. And they're going to want you to
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: have conflict so therefore they can keep the money coming
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: out and keep it coming out. Because I'm going to
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: tell you, as somebody that's been doing this for over
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: a decade, they don't do this to poor people as often.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: They don't drag things out. They wrap those people up
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: pretty fast.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Well, I've had a couple of stern conversations and I'm
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: smarter than I look. Um, to be quite honest, I'm
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: sorry to say that, but I've, I mean, we've, we
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: live in an age where I can look online and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I can see things and, but I feel like he's
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: depleting me so much because something you talked about in
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: one of your episodes is like, he knows me really well.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: He knows how to push my buttons and I know,
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: but I know how to push his and I know
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: how to, you know, and we were touching about like, um,
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: touching on the kids needing their mom and being nurtured.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I'm a little bit more of a free spirit. I
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: call this the fun house. That was a huge point
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: of different parenting styles. And I wouldn't, I'm not going
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: to use the word narc, but more like extreme OCD.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of men have that yeah where
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: it's like I'm gonna I want my kids to be
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: kids like if they want to paint if they want
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: to go play outside I'm not going to stress too
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: much about the cleanup so that's just like a little
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: a little look and look see into that but they
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: come here and for example when I picked them up
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: you know, we've been doing a 5-2-2-3, which I'm actually
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: suggesting a 2-2-3.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: That's what I really want.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And my mother's intuition told me that's better because then
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: we can coordinate, you know, a little interaction with him.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Like we can, all kids are at three different schools.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: And I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: Three drop-offs, three pickups. But early days, I picked the
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: kids up from school and he had had them for
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: I think that was when we were doing two, two, three,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: both my boys were so, so sick and I've been ostracized.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: So I don't have all the things that I need, medicine, thermometer,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: all this stuff. I had to take them to urgent care.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: And they, I mean, that was so hard for me.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: It was like, I got left with two sick kids
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and these are the signs that I think the mother
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: always sees.
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: So, yeah.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: And I, and I think Anytime that like you get
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: put out of the house, you have to restructure really
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: fast and have everything that you need in your own home.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: And it's so expensive though.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: It is. Oh, but that's by design as well. It's
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: not by accident that you got taken out of the home,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: you know, and all of this for all of you listening,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: this is for. This is their strategy is because they
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: want to make you feel like you're always on your heels.
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: You're always from behind. You're struggling financially so that when
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: you throw some when he throws something on the table
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: as an offer, whether that be a parenting plan or
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: whether that be a financial affidavit of whatever's happening with
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: your finances, you're grasping at every straw. So you're like, fine,
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: I'll take it. And it's gonna be a low ball offer.
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, it should be. That's the strategy behind family court.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: Always start low and you're gonna go from there and
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: it's negotiation 101. And they go low, I go lower. Right,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: but this is the deal with you guys as attorneys
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: or anybody's attorney. At the end of the day, every
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: single parent who's getting a divorce is going to end
• 21:53
  Speaker 3: up with two things. A parenting plan, which is a
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: playbook of how you will finish raising your children. So
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: your youngest child is two. So what are you doing
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: for the next 16 years of raising these children together.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: And then part two is the financial package. And for me,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: if you have said on 4th of July of this year,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: which was how many months ago when this is airing?
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Independence Day.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: You want a divorce. Why have you not have any
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: parenting plan? Because here's the scariest thing that has.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Happened to a lot of- I'm the only one that
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: has suggested parenting plans.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Well, your attorneys are letting conflict keep happening. They're letting
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: you try to have to be fighting and arguing and talking.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: And if you're not talking to each other, who are
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: you using? Oh, you're using your overpriced attorneys to talk
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: everything out. So every time you have a change of
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: pickup time or, hey, somebody's sick, you have to use
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: your attorney. And I don't think they're using those transporting
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: information calls for free. So every time you talk, they
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: love that. Where if you guys had a temporary order,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: it would be a lot simpler and a lot more
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: things would be resolved through that. And it'd be less
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: money and financial loss with your attorneys. But again, this
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: is where attorneys love for us parents to be dumb.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: They don't want us to know anything about divorce or custody,
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: you know, how it plays out. And that's how I
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: build all my classes. And that's why people love me
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: because I'm putting education back in common sense, back into
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: our hands of when you split, there's nothing saying that
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: when you take the kids over there next week, that
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: he keeps them.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: There's nothing saying he can't.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Because there's no parenting plan. There's no legal document saying
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: that he can't keep those kids.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: There is.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Just like if you kept them for all next week
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and didn't do the exchanges, there's nothing saying. A handshake
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: agreement does not stand up in court. You sending a
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: text message saying, yeah, I agree to Tuesdays, doesn't stand
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: up in court. This is why temporary orders are so important.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: So if you are establishing something right now of a
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: 2-5 or whatever you're doing, then let's put it on
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: paper and at least lock in. The five things that
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: you guys should always be doing in temporary orders is,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: is whatever the schedule should be, start time, end times, always.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: What's happening with decision making during this interim period of
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: the divorce? Are you joint? Can mom make decisions at
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: her house? What are you doing for decision making? What's
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: happening to any extracurriculars that the kids are going to
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: be in? Are we keeping up with daycare? Are we
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: keeping up with tap class, ballet class, whatever? What's happening
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: with the house and what's happening with the money? And
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: anybody that doesn't put that in a temporary order is
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: just trying to take your money. I'm sorry. I'm saying it. Attorneys,
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: we're tapping into you. We know what you're doing. You're
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: creating conflict to where you're the only person that can
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: be called, to where we are all broke, to where
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: we live on everything that you say. And the second
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: the person with the most money says something, we take
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: it because we're so broke. That's what happens across the
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: board in high conflict cases everywhere. All in family court.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I see it all the time. And that's why I'm
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: trying to educate people about, no, as a parent, you
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: should have a temporary order. As a parent, here's what
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: belongs in your parenting plan. Because even if you get divorced, Courtney,
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: in two years from now, because it's probably going to
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: take about two years, just so you know.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Wait, excuse me?
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah. 12 months to about 36 months is the average
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: divorce in high conflict, especially people that have status or
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: money or both. Because people love to drag it out.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: And by people, I mean attorneys. You're paying for their
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: kids to go to college and not your kids because
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: they will keep you on the payroll for as long
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: as possible. And they'll pump the brakes on things and
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: make things go slow. And oh, no, we can't do
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: it temporary yet.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, no.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, you can. You can do it temporary when you're
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: living together.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: This is why we need you. This is why you
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: need a divorce coach like you. Can people hire you?
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: Well, I got so big that I couldn't help people one-on-one.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: So what I've done is developed a couple of things.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: The masterclass is just for me, educating people. What is
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: a parenting plan? I love just people going and listening
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: to me talk for a few hours and they get
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: a workbook with that. And they just learn about divorce.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: They learn about lawyers. They learn about mediation. They learn
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: about the process. I mean, most of us don't learn
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: until we're knee deep in it. And we're having to
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: learn from four pages of And we're like catching up
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: really fast.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like in Shawshank Redemption right now. I'm like climbing.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: It's a battle. I feel like I'm at war.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: And I loved when you said something like, you got
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to train for it.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: You don't just go to war and say like, Oh, here,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: take your coffee.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And I think people, if you know you're on
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: your way out with divorce, go get an education first
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: before you even start the process. And I want people
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: to be writing their parenting plans right after they take
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: the masterclass. Let my team build your parenting plan. Again,
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: that playbook of what you're going to use for the
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: next 16 years, because here's why I'm going to take
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: that playbook, aka parenting plan, to every attorney and say,
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: do you like this? Do you like this? And the
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: one that says yes is going to be the one
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: I hire because the ones that say no, oh no, Courtney,
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: I don't like the idea that you went ahead and
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: wrote the end product of your divorce, the parenting plan.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I don't like that you thought for yourself. I don't
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: like that you thought for your children or your future.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: They want you to be blind. They want you to
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: go into it nah, you don't even know what you're
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: talking about. We'll keep you stupid because then we can
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: keep your money and we can keep taking it from you.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Where I want people to interview with the parenting plan.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: This is like mind blowing. So everybody can go to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: your course. I'm going to sign up. I'm going to run,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: not walk, but also your podcast is also incredible.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: And this is the stuff that they don't warn you
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: about before you get married. Even I never, I would
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: have never gotten married. thinking that this would happen or
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I mean I didn't even think about parenting plan think
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I've been researching it but like education religion like basic
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: things what are what are some of the things that
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: that stand out to you that are like high conflict
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: like like you know we were touching on 50 50
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and like I'm already so sad Halloween is this month
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: and like Christmas I keep I posing it as like,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: you have two Christmases where you're going to have two
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Christmas trees. So, but yeah, what, what would you say
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: like the things that stand out the most as far
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: as like high conflict parenting plans?
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: People always fight about decision-making and most attorneys are going
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: to give you 50, 50 joint legal custody and any
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: major decision you both have to talk about and you
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: both have to agree. And what I say to that
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: is great, Larry, that's awesome. How about the 90% of
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: the time that we don't agree? What's the plan then?
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: You know, like I, these attorneys that either have not
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: lived this life or they know it and they just
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: love charging you for it because once you're divorced and
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: there's something like, Hey, we both have to agree on
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: what school district or what daycare or what extracurricular or what,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: what religion our child gets baptized. When that decision comes
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: up and one person says white and one Who do
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: we have to call? Oh, we have to call Larry
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: back and say, hey, Larry, turns out we can't get along.
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: Really shocking after this battle for two years to get divorced.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: It's no wonder we can't come to an agreement here.
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: I think that's, again, common sense. You got two people
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: that can't even sit together anymore. They can't even be
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: in the same home anymore. They don't talk to each
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: other in public anymore. How in the hell are they
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: gonna do joint decision-making in the future? They're not going to.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: So what we do in our parenting plan is we
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: just make all the decisions. So for that two-year-old we have,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: We go through and we pick daycare, we pick schools,
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: we pick extracurriculars, we pick it all. And we put
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: it in that parenting plan. So decision-making is number one,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: that people get robbed in their parenting plan by just
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: vague language that attorneys love because they get to stay
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: on the payroll. Number two is the details around time.
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: People in parenting plans, they don't put times down. They
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: just put days or what holiday. And they don't put
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: a start time and an end time. Well, if Halloween
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: this year doesn't fall on your day.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: It doesn't. And I think that was intentional. It's my
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: favorite holiday.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: That's a bargaining chip later that if that is a
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: holiday you truly want, then you give him an alternate holiday. Hey,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: I always want Halloween. You can always have this one.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I've been trying and he just ignores. And I love
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: what you talk about, like in, you know, because I
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: have an order of protection. He cannot email me. He
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: ignores all of my requests.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I've requested Halloween. I've requested Halloween, but
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: it doesn't fall.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: Doesn't matter. He's never going to give it to you
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: because why? You changed his life. So therefore he wants
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: to hurt you. He knows you love Halloween. He knows
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: who you are. So here's what we do. Here's the
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: workaround with that. And this is a workaround for any
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: holiday that's coming up because when we're recording this, it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: in October and the next 90 days are going to
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: be heavy holidays. We got Halloween. We have Thanksgiving. We
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: have Christmas. We have fall break, winter break.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Which also means in-laws as well.
• 30:14
  Speaker 3: Right. But what we do here is anytime we have
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: a high conflict dynamic where someone knows that something's important
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: to you, Christmas morning, Halloween, your Thanksgiving, everybody comes and
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: there's 40 people there.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: They know that.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: So they're purposely always, they can't help themselves. This is
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: a drug to them to cause chaos or to tell
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: you no. So first and foremost, back to the five
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: things that are wrong in parenting plans is you got
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: to have detail around when is it your holiday time
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: and when is it not? So specific times of when
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: it starts and when it ends so that you know
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: when to plan your things. But here's the little trick
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: to this. you always have to celebrate early. So if
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Halloween is your jam, you better be going to a
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: trunk or treat on Sunday.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Oh, you should see what I'm looking at right now.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: We've been painting pumpkins since September.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: So one thing that you have to remember is it's
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: not about the holiday. It's about the experience or the memory.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: So when you ask my kids who have been divorcee
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: kids since they were one in three.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Is that a technical term? A divorcee kids.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I like that.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: That's what I've been using for the decades is But
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: here's the deal. When it came to all the Christmases
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: that I have with my children, I have my kids
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: every Christmas and when they open presents and they had
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: the stocking stuffers, they had the works, but was it
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: on the 25th? Hell, if I know, and I'll tell you,
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: they couldn't remember either, but they know that they celebrated
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: Christmas with me. It could have been on the 23rd.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: It could have been on the 24th, the 26th. Hell, some,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I think some years it was the 27th. It's not
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: about the day. It's about the experience. And so don't
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: get all butthurt when you're building your parenting plan and
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: you're like, I want Halloween. Well, the best you're going
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: to get is every other Halloween. So on the year
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: that you don't have it, you go do something fantastic. Now, again,
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: like I said, you could customize it and say that
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: you do get every Halloween and maybe he gets every
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: Thanksgiving and it's a wash, but here's the deal. You
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: said something earlier. I want to go back to, we
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: have to stop going to our ex and thinking they're
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: going to agree with us.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: They hate us.
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: They don't like us. So every time you go to
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: him through your attorney, he's going, huh?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Huh? Stupid.
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: She just paid for her attorney to come ask me
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: a question. The answer is still no. No, I'm not
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: doing Halloween. No, I'm not doing Halloween. No, it's going
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: to be no every time, but you just lost how
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: much money asking your attorney to ask him. They do
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: nothing without a court order. So until you propose a
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: whole package of what all the holidays look like, because
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: why would he give you Halloween? when he could turn
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: around and lose Thanksgiving and Christmas.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: He doesn't care about Thanksgiving.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: He, at one point before the, like years ago, he
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: said to me one time, Courtney, you're not a homemaker.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: I said, don't say things to me that you can't
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: take back. And that's why I think he changed the locks.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Cause I've been slowly on like when I had access,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: taking the things that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Built a home.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: And I love that you're talking about like core memories
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: and experiences because I personally feel like I've been the
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: heart of the house and you know, on the kids
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: and different in a way. I mean, he's a great dad,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: but he's been a very shitty husband.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't like the term good dad when somebody
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: is willing to do this to the dynamic.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: I don't even have any chonies, but guess what?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I get to go buy new underwear.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Does a good dad lock mom out of the house
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: and make his kids have to sleep God knows where?
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: He didn't know where your kids were going to sleep
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: when he locked you out of the house. So I
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: don't know that that's a good dad. I don't think
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: any parent that does that should be labeled as still
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: a good parent, but shitty spouse. That's not showing and
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: helping your other parent be a good parent either.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't have spousal support or child support yet.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Because your attorneys have not court ordered it. Your attorneys
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: need to court order it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm bleeding money over here. I'm broke as a joke.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: A lot of Larrys will do this. I mean, there's
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: temporary child support going out to hundreds of people every
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: day that aren't divorced yet that get temporary child relief
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: in the interim or everything stays status quo during the divorce,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: meaning whatever bills you paid and he paid stayed.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: The same the whole time.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: I'm starting to sweat.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: I'm starting to sweat.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And again, nothing... Nothing I'm saying is legal advice.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: This is just all the stuff that I hear over
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: the decade of helping thousands and thousands of clients who
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: go through the same thing. I've been on so many attorneys' podcasts.
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: And attorneys either love me or hate me. Most of
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: them that are doing God's work with me love me
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: because they know I'm just educating people about what their
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: rights are. As a parent, I'm just trying to get divorced.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: That's it. And you are even willing to do 50-50.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: I put a waste clause in. Our largest asset.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Which I think is the thing to also touch on,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much time we have here, is
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: the house that I do not have access to anymore.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I'm on that. We don't have a prenup.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: And he's going to have to buy me my interest
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: out of the property. I am also a real estate agent.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I tried to schedule an appraisal and he blocked it.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: And attorneys are going back and forth. Let's figure out
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: a date.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: And again, nothing will happen until a judge orders that appraisal.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: This is what high conflict people do. They do nothing
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: until you spend money with an attorney to get a
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: judge to tell them to do it.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So when you were talking about the parenting plan, nobody's
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: talked to me about this.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Which blows my mind because that's the end product. That's
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: what you're fighting for is the end product. I was
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: at the.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: Courthouse filling out on this little ridiculous computer.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: For my order of protection. And by the way, this
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: is just.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: A piece of paper. Yeah.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: Does nothing really.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: Look how flimsy it is. They're like the judge. When
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I talked to the judge, I, you know, I'm dealing
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: with infidelity and he's like, Courtney, don't bring that up.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: When you, whenever you talk to a judge, he goes,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. We're in a no fault state.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: It really doesn't. It really doesn't. That's where you have
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: to go get yourself right and get yourself healed.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Do you realize how much time this took me to get?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: and to like, I had to have pay for my,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: actually my neighbor watched the kids and it was, it
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: was so stressful. Even just walking into a courthouse is stressful.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Talk about anxiety.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Well, times that then, then try going to court for
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: the first time ever and having someone look at you
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: and judge you as your character as a parent, and
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: then tell you what to do with their own children.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: You know, like it's a very nerve wracking thing. And
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: so that way that in product of that parenting plan,
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: you know, we've talked about decision-making, we've talked about the
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: holidays and having strict time. The other thing is to
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: make sure you talk about communication in your parenting plan,
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: obviously with, with, any type of restraining order that anybody's has,
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: that's only going to last so long. So what does
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: communication look like for the next 16 years? Are you
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: using a parenting app, which God bless you? I hope
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: you do because they weren't around whenever, you know, I.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Order protection is great because he can only email me
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: about that. Can I flip him the bird? I don't
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: think so.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: That's probably not a good look.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: Not why it's not going to look good for that
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: boomer judge that you're probably going to have. So You
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: got to make sure that we keep our side of
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: the table really clean. But it doesn't mean we allow
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: things to happen to us. But how will you be
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: communicating for the next few years? And what does that
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: look like? Are you always going to be using an app?
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: I think apps are just it should be just protocol
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: that everybody uses the app. We're not on personal email
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: or text. It's just all app and it's organized and
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: it's kept right there. But money. Outside of child support
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: and or alimony, if anybody is getting that, there are
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: still expenses like maybe private school or daycare or extracurriculars
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: that child support does not cover. So if you're receiving
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: child support, but then your child wants to go do
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: travel baseball that costs $ 6, 000 a year, who pays for
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: that $ 6, 000? So is it both parties? What is listed
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: in your parenting plan? And so many Larrys, Larry the
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Loser Lawyer, He does not include that because he wants
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: you to have to call him back and say, hey,
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: my ex won't pay for baseball. And they're like, well,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: your parenting plan doesn't say so. Would you like to
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: go back for a modification? We can add that clause
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: in there for you.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, sure.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: For a mere $ 10, 000, you can add that clause in
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: when it should have been added at the very beginning.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Well, I would love to... You mentioned tap downs. I
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: want to get my daughter into gymnastics. That's expensive. And
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: I had a little story here about soccer. I asked
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: him not to sign... My kid's up for soccer this
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: season and he did it anyway.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Every other weekend.
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: He did it because he knows it. You said not to,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: but he did it because there's nothing saying he can't.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: You have no temporary order.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: But on my weekend, I haven't been taking him.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: You don't have to. Yep.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: And I put that in writing. And like, this is
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: a perfect example. It's like, because I, you know, There
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: has been infidelity, and I have talked about it publicly.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Everywhere I go, people want to, what's going on? What's
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: the latest? I'm like, listen to my podcast. But if
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: I were him and I have done– like, I would
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: want to put my head in the sand. Like, I
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: can't believe he's even showing face. I personally do not–
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't want him to do it even before I filed.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I said, Paloma hates soccer. Don't put her in soccer.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: And he did it anyway. So on my weekends, I.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Haven't been taking him and it's just digging the knife in.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: And you don't have to. And I would build your
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: parenting plan in a way that neither one of you
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: have to do anything until the kids are a certain age. Right.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: We're talking about travel, baseball. My sister does that.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And it's like so crazy. That's like club sports.
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. And so who's paying for that when you're divorced?
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Do you both travel on those weekends? Do you take
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: all the kids? Do certain kids stay behind and only
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: the kid in the sport? There's very specifics that you
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: need to have listed in your parenting plan for that. So,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: you know, and the other thing about this infidelity, and
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: this is just me being a divorce coach, you, the
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: more you bring that up, the more he's going to
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: come for you. Because again, you're putting a label on
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: him that he should. of. And instead of saying I
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: screwed up, he's going to keep coming for you.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Gosh, I just breathe it inside out.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is a lot to process.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: And it's a long process. It is a long process.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: Two years?
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to move on in the next two years.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: But I guess switching gears, you have to be very
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: resilient to go through this. I don't think divorce is
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: for the faint of heart. I mean, there have been
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: days where I'm like, I can't even get out of bed. But.
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: Sometimes staying married is easier.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Well, he, he wanted to reconcile and I really, everything
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: you said today, I.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Just gobbled it up.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I laughed it up. I mean, I, and it will
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: stick with me. I, you know, I think when you're
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: in fight or flight, like things are like really that
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: are of value, like right now, this conversation with you
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: and think about how many people it's going to help,
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: but are there some positive things that we have to
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: look forward to on the other side?
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, just absolutely, you know, and I think, I
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: think it's the, absolute time you get now being unconditioned
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: and structured the way he wanted you to be in
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: that home you know the walking on eggshells or the
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: OCD or the cleanliness or like loud sounds or pick
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: their toys up or make sure they look good you
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: don't get to do that now we can eat in
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: the living room we can leave out for two days
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: we don't have to make our beds if we don't want.
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: To I wish you could see the artwork we just
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: did splatter paint this morning.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: And the kid when they drop something they they don't freeze.
• 40:57
  Speaker 3: They're just like, oh, I dropped something. It's okay. People
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: drop stuff. It's that recalibrating them. And then you get
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: to know when they walk through that threshold of that door,
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: that the sense of like the book bag comes off
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, like I get to breathe here.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: And so do you, you know what that feels like
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: because you left, right?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, I feel, and people keep saying like, are you okay?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I've never been better. I mean, apart from
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: the divorce and the money and the this and that,
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I feel more like myself than I've Yeah.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: I think there's just the sense of like, you're their home.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: You know, my, my, my big kids being part of
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: my business, they have told hundreds of not thousands of
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: people about what it would have been like for my
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: mom to, you know, for them, for me to have
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: had a divorce coach or for me to even have
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: the educational piece. So I would have known what I
• 41:44
  Speaker 3: was up against. I didn't know what a narcissist was.
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what a personality disorder was. I didn't
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: know that someone could hurt you that you just slept
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: with months ago. It blew my mind that someone would
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: use my kids as a weapon against me. I didn't
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: grow up with people like that in my life. So
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: when it happened to me, I'm like, he's just an asshole.
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: And people were like, no, he's like a step above that.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, that's not normal.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: Also, there's part of it.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: That I'm like, I don't think people are going to
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: believe me No.
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: Most people won't because it's unfathomable what happened to you
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: or what's happening to you. And people think, you know, well,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: if you would just do this, I was the, if
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: I just do this, he'll stop. If I just do this,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: he'll stop.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: I have everything emails sent, listen to this podcast. I've
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: tried everything. You just said something that I wish you
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: could read this email that was like, I'm scared to
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: communicate with you because I never know if you're going
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: to explode or.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: What I'm going to get.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: So the good side is you teach your kids who
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: they're going to be. And I think now with my
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: kids being older, They're in college and they're out in
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: the world. And now because of what they've went through,
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: they can read people really well. They know who somebody like,
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: that has a trait that looks very familiar. And I
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: know what boundaries are. And I know how to have self-worth.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: And I know how to love myself. And I know
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: how to soothe because my mom taught me that. I
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: think the one takeaway I want to give anybody listening
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: going through divorce is at the end of the day,
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: when you are divorced, you have an opportunity not just
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: to provide for your children, but show them what living
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: really looks like authentically. how you want to live. If
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: you want to be a free spirit, be a free spirit.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: If you want to be somebody that's super organized because
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: that makes you happy, not because you were told to be,
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: or you're.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Covering your tracks because you're lying.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Right. So I mean, you get to have the freedom
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: to actually teach your kids and show them what good
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: people are. And in that household, you were never going
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: to be able to do that.
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: It was actually making me sick.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Filtering everything through his dynamic of what he wanted. And
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: a lot of us did that. We put everything through
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: the dad filter or through the high conflict parents filter.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: And then we go through this period of time when
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: we first leave where we're like, I don't even know
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: what my filter looks like. And then we find it
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: and we find it after the divorce. And then the
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: kids are better for it. You're better for it. And
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: you end up finding your unicorn new husband and you
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: have more kids and you're happy and you're blissful. And
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: it's just great.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Well, Samantha, boss, you are the biggest unicorn. I hope
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: everybody run, don't walk. I'm going to go do that
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: for myself. Bear is a lucky man as well. And
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: I've just loved connecting with you today. I'm going to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: meditate on all of this. I hope everybody enjoyed this episode.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Go follow. We'll put all of your social media in
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: the show notes. And hey, are you going through a
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: high conflict divorce and needing some guidance? Email us or
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: call us.
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: We are here to help.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: All the info is in the show notes. So follow
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: us on socials. Make sure to rate, review the podcast.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: Share it with somebody that it could help. I do
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: the main objective.