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Cindy Willems - Value-Led Selling in SMB · Partnerships Unraveled

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Partnerships Unravel, the podcast where we unravel the mysteries of channel and partnerships on a weekly basis.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Effe, and I'm really excited to announce our guest, Cindy.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Cindy, how are you doing?
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, hi Effe.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing great.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's an honor that I can be in your podcast.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's an honor to be speaking with you.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Cindy, for uh those who might not know you, could you give us an introduction?
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us who you are and where you come from.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um, I'm the head of channel uh for Lenovo for uh SMB and uh Baelux.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've been this for a small year, uh, and before uh Lenovo, I was uh also in channel for a couple of years.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm comparing to some uh channel leaders new in the game, newish.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I see.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and you are doing, although you're new, I think you're doing something challenging at Lenovo.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: You're helping bring together two uh key business groups at Lenovo.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So one is ISG, which is the infrastructure solutions group, and also IVG Intelligent Device Group.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're helping bring these two groups under one roof in the uh Baylux region.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Could you tell us a bit more about what's been the hardest part of that transformation from both a partner perspective but also as an internal sales perspective as well?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um bringing those two together is uh very challenging because uh these are really two separate worlds.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So being seen also in in the in the uh in history as two silos.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh one, IDG is fast moving, box-moving sales, so um a lot of uh uh pieces and um very fast, so it's a very short sales cycle um comparing to ISG, are complex, long, solution-driven sales talks that can take from maybe maybe a couple of months, but some a year to a year and a half.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So to bring these two together is very challenging because in business these are two silos, but for the end customer, uh they don't think in silos, they think in solutions, and um it has to be integrated, and for them it's all just one thing, IT.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So uh we need to uh bring back those two uh silos, make it one, and then make sure that the the two um separate uh movements go together in one solution for the customer.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's it is quite uh an exercise.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then for the sales also, we have sales who are used to selling fast and big uh amounts of hardware, and then you have sales who are trained to do the solution selling, to listen to the customer, to go for integrated solutions.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So those two sales bringing them together, or more preferably, learning one sales to do the other thing, and making every sales uh an integrated ISG, IDG, one Lenovo sales uh is um a big job.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned something that I hear from a lot of channel partners, especially uh channel leaders who are uh you know selling different product categories.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like yourself, you mentioned ISG and IDG.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: They have different sales cycles, they have different value propositions.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's often really challenging to get partners to be proficient and comfortable selling both kinds of solutions.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Usually a lot of partners are only comfortable selling either or.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so one of your priorities also is currently how can we get more partners to be uh proficient in both selling ISC and IBG?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to me about how is that tension and you know what are you doing to help partners be comfortable and be proficient in selling both kinds of solutions?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: Also, that is not an easy uh quest, but um we need to be a bridge builder because again, for the end customer, it's all one solution, it's all one question.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we need to uh be the bridge builder between the the ecosystems.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to help uh the partners um with enabling, with cross-training, um incentives, um, because we have a shared value to add to the customer.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's okay that that some partners are ISG and others are IDG.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's perfectly fine.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But in a world of of uh entrepreneurial ship, you need to be able to um you need to be agile and you need to learn.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And in in this case, this is the way the future is going.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to combine both worlds to continue do business.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I fully agree with you.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And Cindy, also in uh the Baylux region, you own the SMB segment.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: What are the biggest conceptions about SMB customers, especially when it comes to infrastructure and AI readiness?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, um I think that the the biggest um misconception is that uh SMB would not be ready for AI or would not be open for AI.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: But um most SMB customers or partners are um faster and more agile, they need to move faster, um, and they don't have that big company behind them that where where the uh communication lines are long and complex.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So they can uh do it um uh easier and faster, but the uh solutions that we give them need to be more accessible and scalable because um they have to have a low entry point.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's also no big data, the data has to be correct in first hand.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um for SMB, it's very important that they are ready with their data and they are um the data is clean, and then they take small steps with um agile products that contain AI, so just the baby steps, and then they'll they'll get ready because they're they're very agile.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think SMB is ready for AI, but in the right way of working, yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I fully agree, and I think a lot of selling AI into SMB, also there's a lot of um value-led selling that has to be done.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's just moving beyond just a transactional resell mindset.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and you've seen kind of that shift happening in the channel.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is such a common topic that we discuss on the podcast all the time.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do we get partners to move away from that transactional mindset and get them to be value-led sellers?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, could you talk to me about how uh what steps are you taking to get those, get your partners to be ready to do value-led selling?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I am I am completely agreeing with you.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when it comes to um the future is in the value, not in the volume.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's easier said than done because until now, volume brings the money and um uh value is given for free uh most of the time.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um solution selling takes also more time because you need to listen to the end customer uh to to uh to understand what they need.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to make the switch from tech talk to business language, and we need to understand what the customer really needs, therefore, we need to understand the customer.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, as Lenovo, we need to uh help with the enablement, we need to uh go uh co-selling, we need to um uh go to the partners um and and offer our co-creation so we can exist together and we can go to that future of value selling.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's it's uh it's a hard process and it's something that will take time and a lot of effort from both parties.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um so um, but Lenovo is is uh is taking all of the steps necessary for um this co-selling and co-creation with with the partners.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that the true selling starts um when you stop pitching and start start understanding your customer, and um that's what we're trying to do now every day with our partner landscape.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I really want to touch on something that you said that we need to move away from we need to talk business and kind of move away from talking about technical aspects of a solution.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of tech people partners can get lost in that, you know, when talking to a customer, they talk about you know technical facts about a product and solution, but the customer truly does not care about those things.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: They are concerned about how it's going to solve their business challenges.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm also curious to hear now this shift is happening clearly.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you also feel like there's more demand from partners?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Are they also kind of asking support in terms of how can we transform our business?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: How can we move away from this transaction selling?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you see partners being aware of this shift and proactively trying to make that change and ask support from you?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, um yes, they do.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the conversation uh always uh then goes uh in the in the dot of uh skills we need to um think deeply about one uh for the future, the people we are going to hire, which skills we want them to have to be future proof in our business.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then we still need people who think tech, but they are have to be able to translate it to speak business.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's all that's all easier said than done because I'm now I'm looking for profiles that that are not so easy to find at the market, but then it begins with education and it begins with the new generations that are coming.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um but so we need another skill set.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Then for the people who are um at this point in in companies, the the HR, uh we need to ask the question okay, the people that we have are human assets.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have the skills?
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then we have to go and look at them individually.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Who needs training?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who needs support?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Who who needs more than that?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, last question.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe some people are not at the right place in the company.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: So should we move?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Should we make sure that people are um better in a in another place?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and can we make them more uh sufficient uh in another part of the company because they don't uh belong anymore in the in the part that they were working now?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And most of the time, people who are on the wrong seat are not happy.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you can make this an exercise without uh the panic of oh no, people have to go uh because they don't have the skill set.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's uh I mean it's a responsibility of the brands and also of the partners to um to train your people and to enable your people to have these uh these skills or to evolve in these skills because everyone can grow and everyone can learn.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think that's uh that's a very important uh topic.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, a lot of companies uh talk about us uh about that because without the the right human assets, we don't do anything.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: People buy from people, people talk to people.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's 100% true.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: I fully agree.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh finally, Cindy, I want to kind of dive into the conversations that you're having uh with SMB partners and their customers as well, specifically around AI.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um what kind of conversations are are you having on the ground and what messages what messages do you see are landing well, particularly with SMBs?
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that AI, um, or I'm sure that uh AI, it's it's when you see keynotes about AI, uh, 90% are or too complex or too fluffy.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, and the question from the market is make it simple and concrete, because I don't understand.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: I or think it's too complex and it's not for me, or I think it's too fluffy, I can do everything with it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and then we just land at ChatGTP.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um so um AI should inspire, not intimidate, and that's what it's doing right now, because all of the fuss around uh AI.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and partners want clarity, not the hype.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so they it's all it's all fun and games when you see at events uh the robots running around and they can see things and they can do things and then and and uh computers uh well do stuff that you're amazed about, but that's not um an uh a case that the customer can use.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So they they need proof of extra uh productivity, they need proof of customer experience, of automation, something that proves them money to the table.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that's um yeah, the voice of simplicity and empowerment and not of complexity and and hype.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, maybe we should bring AI down to earth, showing it uh that it drives real business value and not making it uh a story, a telling story as as uh a lot of people do at this point.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think what you said also applies to any kind of solution, not only AI as well, especially in SMB particularly, the messaging can get very overcomplicated for no reason.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I fully agree that we need to bring uh these messaging down to earth, make it easy to understand and easy to consume as well.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of messaging does stick well with SMB's partners and customers.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it still surprises me, and then that's how little people, I'm not only talking about partners or all how little people know what AI can do and what not.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because the strangest stories go around, and then you think like, no, this is not new, this is not going to happen like next week.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, but people don't know the limitations yet of AI, they only hear about the possibilities, and the possibility the possibilities are there, but but it's not it's not going to take over the world.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to focus on the productivity and the automation and what it can do right now for your company and and uh creates value fast and time because it saves a lot of time if you use it correctly.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Cindy, before I let you go, final question for you is we always ask our guests to invite the next guest on the podcast.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Who's your recommendation?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would recommend Alexander Hoos.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: He's the uh MD of uh Dustin Belgium, and uh he's been in uh in channel and uh multi-vendor uh landscape for many years.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's very uh energetic and he's very uh enthusiastic about uh about the job.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you will have a great podcast uh with him uh on the other side.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Cindy and Alexander.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening, I'll be reaching out to you.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, bye bye, thank you.