Latest / Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast / Cannabis Safety, Medical Evidence and Patient Care with Dr. Kenneth Finn

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Cannabis Safety, Medical Evidence and Patient Care with Dr. Kenneth Finn · Becker’s Healthcare - Clinical Leadership Podcast

• 0:02
  - There's a small circle of people who truly
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  - understand what it takes to lead a health
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  - system right now. The decisions are enormous.
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  - The variables are constantly shifting, and the stakes
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  - of getting a call wrong don't stay contained.
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  - That's not a complaint. It's a structural reality.
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  - And it's why the most effective c suite
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  - leaders are deliberate about where they go to
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  - pressure test their thinking.
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  - Becker's fourteenth annual CEO and CFO roundtable
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  - brings together more than 1,500
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  - executive level attendees
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  - and nearly 400 speakers for four days built
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  - around growth, financial sustainability,
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  - workforce strategy, and the leadership questions that don't
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  - have easy answers.
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  - Join us November second through the fifth in
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  - Chicago.
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  - For the agenda and event details,
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  - visit becker'shospitalreview.com
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  - and click on the events tab in the
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  - upper right.
• 0:51
  - Hi. Welcome to the Becker's Healthcare podcast. My
• 0:53
  - name is Paige Twenter, and I'm an editor
• 0:55
  - here at Becker's Hospital Review
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  - joined today by doctor Kenneth Finn. I'm really,
• 1:01
  - really excited for this upcoming conversation. So, doctor
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  - Finn, I'd love to hear a little bit
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  - about you. Can you introduce yourself to the
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  - audience today?
• 1:10
  - Sure.
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  - My name is Ken Finn. I'm a practicing
• 1:13
  - medical doctor.
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  - I practice pain medicine in Colorado Springs for
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  - thirty years, and I moved to Prescott, Arizona
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  - in 2025
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  - to continuing to practice comprehensive pain medicine.
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  - And a background on myself, I'm board certified
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  - in physical medicine and rehab, pain medicine, pain
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  - management.
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  - I'm certified in cannabis science for the University
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  - of Colorado.
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  - I was an associate professor of the University
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  - of Colorado Medical School, that, Colorado Springs branch,
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  - former president of the American Board of Pain
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  - Medicine, and served on their exam council for
• 1:44
  - twenty five years.
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  - I actually served on Colorado's, governor's task force
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  - on amendment 64,
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  - which legalized marijuana for recreational use and was
• 1:53
  - on the consumer safety and social issues work
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  - group and served four years on covers medical
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  - marijuana scientific advisory council.
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  - We've been an invited speaker to the United
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  - Nations commission on narcotic drugs a few years
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  - ago. I've testified to the Canadian Senate on
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  - their marijuana bill and the New York general
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  - assembly.
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  - And I speak internationally on the health impacts
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  - of marijuana, including
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  - being invited speaker to Mayo Clinic,
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  - Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland,
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  - UCLA, MD Anderson Cancer Center,
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  - Stanford, New Zealand Pain Society, among many, many
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  - others.
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  - So I work nationally with state legislators consider
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  - I... Considering legalizing marijuana for medical recreational purposes.
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  - I was one of the few people selected
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  - to testify
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  - at the recent rescheduling of marijuana,
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  - and I'm also the editor of medical textbook
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  - called cannabis and medicine and evidence based approach,
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  - and currently the co vice president of our
• 2:44
  - nonprofit called the ISAAC, the International Academy on
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  - the Science and Impacts of Cannabis, which is
• 2:49
  - now a member of the VNN NGO Committee
• 2:51
  - on Drugs. So we work with the UN
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  - on international drug policy. So, this has been
• 2:55
  - a,
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  - again, as I mentioned, not a career choice,
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  - but have become an international subject matter expert
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  - on the public health implications
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  - of expanded marijuana programs.
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  - Do you have more than twenty four hours
• 3:09
  - in your
• 3:10
  - days? Because it's like... It sounds like you
• 3:12
  - do. Well, there's a lot going on in
• 3:14
  - this space, and and I think it's important.
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  - I mean, people think I'm a prohibitionist or
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  - nihilist, and I'm really not. I I... I'm
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  - a scientist. I'm a researcher.
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  - I believe in the science. I mean, I
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  - support,
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  - you know,
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  - drug development programs for cannabis based medications. I
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  - mean, we have
• 3:32
  - those cannabis based medications and formulations like dronabinol
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  - that's been around since the eighties, nabilone,
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  - that they help with, chemotherapy associated nausea and
• 3:41
  - vomiting and appetite stimulation,
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  - Epidiolex, which is a FDA approved cannabidiol
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  - or CBD.
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  - And the folks from Alabama Birmingham that
• 3:51
  - got it through the FDA actually wrote the
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  - chapter in seizure,
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  - in my book. So I support
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  - appropriate drug development,
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  - and I don't think cannabis should get a
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  - free pass when it comes to being called
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  - a medicine for a variety of reasons.
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  - Can you expand on that?
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  - Yeah. Can... Cannabis is a is a plant,
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  - and we already have a lot of plant
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  - based medications. We have aspirin that comes from
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  - the bark of the willow tree. We have
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  - digitalis that comes from the foxglove plant. We
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  - have a lot of chemotherapeutic
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  - agents that come from plants.
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  - So
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  - there are... There is medical
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  - potential
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  - from the cannabis plant.
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  - So we need to get the components that
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  - are purified,
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  - not contaminated,
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  - and proven to work. And I support that
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  - 100%.
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  - The problem we're running into is that cannabis
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  - has over 100
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  - active molecules in the human body,
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  - and we can't tease them all apart. So
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  - they kinda lump it together in a plant.
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  - And the most common molecules with... That people
• 4:52
  - are familiar with are things like THC or
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  - tetrahydrocannabinol
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  - or CBD or,
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  - cannabidiol.
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  - And most people, even physicians that I talk
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  - to don't understand or realize
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  - that CBD, although it's not as psychoactive
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  - as THC,
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  - carries its own baggage. There's more than seven
• 5:11
  - twenty five drug interactions
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  - with CBD,
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  - including a lot of over the counter medications
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  - like acetaminophen
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  - or ibuprofen
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  - can interact with CBD and cause liver impairment.
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  - So I think it's... That's why I have
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  - these conversations with my patients
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  - because I tell them buyer beware,
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  - because a lot of products are contaminated
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  - with things like arsenic
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  - or cadmium, which are heavy metals.
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  - Colorado, for example, has had a recall on
• 5:37
  - product almost every three weeks in 2026.
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  - There are no other medications that recalls in
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  - one state that often or that frequently because
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  - of high level of pesticides,
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  - high level of fungicides or mold
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  - or,
• 5:52
  - fungus that are on those products.
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  - So for me,
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  - that cannot be considered medication until all those
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  - guardrails and caps are in place.
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  - And then do the science, do the research.
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  - And we've done... There've been more than 8,000
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  - studies on cannabis at the cost of nearly
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  - $4,000,000,000
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  - to the taxpayers of The US,
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  - studying it.
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  - And so despite its current schedule and schedule
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  - one, there are thousands and thousands of studies
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  - on cannabis already in place and ongoing studies,
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  - and I support
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  - research a 100%.
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  - I wanna take us back,
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  - to April
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  - when
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  - the federal government... Or when medical marijuana was
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  - moved to schedule three and the federal government
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  - is still weighing whether to reschedule
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  - marijuana more broadly.
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  - Obviously, this was a few months ago. What
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  - would be kind of your, like,
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  - TLDR to health care leaders who, like,
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  - you know, maybe saw a headline of that,
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  - like, months ago, but what do they need
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  - to understand right now?
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  - Well, a couple of things. If you are
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  - gonna consider cannabis a schedule three medication,
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  - like any other medication
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  - that needs a package insert, I mean, you
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  - go to the pharmacy, you get that piece
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  - of paper in the brown bag that nobody
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  - reads, but that's called the package insert.
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  - And like any other medication, cannabis needs to
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  - have a package insert describing the pharmacokinetics,
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  - pharmacodynamics
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  - of the 100 molecules that are in the
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  - plant,
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  - so patients don't understand
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  - what they're taking.
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  - They need to have,
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  - you know,
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  - standardized content.
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  - And that's a problem with cannabis as medication.
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  - There's no
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  - dosing guidelines. There's no safety measures. There's no
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  - widely accepted use or commonly accepted medical use.
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  - For example, I think less than
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  - three percent of the licensed health care practitioners
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  - in the state of Colorado
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  - made a marijuana recommendation
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  - for a patient.
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  - And in a couple years ago, I think
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  - there were only three physicians that made more
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  - than one fourth of the marijuana recommendations in
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  - the state
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  - for commonly accepted medical use. When you have
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  - a very small number of providers making the
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  - vast majority of recommendations,
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  - that by definition does not equate commonly accepted
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  - medical use. We need to have those safety
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  - guidelines in place. We should have potency caps
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  - because the the products today are getting so
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  - strong
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  - that the science is only trying to catch
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  - up. And I think the European data is
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  - very clear that products more than 10% THC
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  - have a much higher risk of developing a
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  - first episode psychosis,
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  - nearly elevenfold in the adolescent and fivefold in
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  - the adult.
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  - And cannabis psychosis is somewhat frightening.
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  - Or or very
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  - frightening. Yeah.
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  - Yeah. Especially with 11 fold increase for pediatric
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  - patients and then five fold increase for
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  - adults.
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  - And when you're talking about adolescent use, I
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  - mean, the the use rates are somewhat flat
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  - or even declining
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  - in some studies that you read.
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  - But a lot of people don't realize that
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  - mARE one is the most prevalent substance found
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  - in completed teen suicide in the state of
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  - Colorado.
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  - No. A lot of states aren't even tracking
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  - that data.
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  - And I think the Colorado has been very
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  - good. The Colorado Department of Public Health and
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  - Environment,
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  - is very good at publishing publishing data,
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  - showing the public health implications in terms of
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  - impacts on youth,
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  - impacts on driving,
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  - those sorts of things.
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  - But the fact that nearly forty...
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  - Over forty percent of teenagers that complete suicide
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  - in Colorado are positive for cannabis,
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  - versus the number two substance now is alcohol
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  - when that used to be number one.
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  - And it's like a distant second, like twenty
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  - seven percent.
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  - And kids are not overdosing
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  - because it... I don't think you can overdose
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  - on
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  - marijuana. I mean, you're not gonna stop breathing
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  - like an opioid will have you stop breathing.
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  - But the fact that its presence
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  - in
• 10:02
  - completed teen suicide is concerning,
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  - and it's probably a bidirectional relationship. Are they
• 10:07
  - using because they're depressed, Or are they depressed
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  - because they're using? Are they self medicating?
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  - So it's a very complicated
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  - thing to really tease apart,
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  - especially in this day and age where we
• 10:17
  - have... We're in the middle of a mental
• 10:18
  - health crisis, you know, when it's multifactorial.
• 10:21
  - I mean, there's a lot of things in
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  - play here. You've got bullying. You have social
• 10:25
  - media.
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  - But the one thing that people don't tend
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  - to discuss is the relationship
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  - of cannabis in this mental health crisis that
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  - we're currently in the middle of.
• 10:37
  - Looking for kind of at the national
• 10:39
  - level, you testified to the DEA on rescheduling
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  - medical marijuana.
• 10:45
  - I I can already guess your core argument
• 10:48
  - was science based.
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  - But can you kinda share a little bit
• 10:52
  - of, like,
• 10:53
  - the points you made to the DEA?
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  - Yeah. The points were really boiled down to
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  - a few things. The FDA currently has not
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  - approved a single
• 11:02
  - medical condition for the use of raw cannabis.
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  - So if the FDA
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  - doesn't even support
• 11:09
  - anything
• 11:10
  - medically for its use,
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  - why are we having this discussion? And
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  - that was part of my argument,
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  - is that the... There isn't any evidence right
• 11:21
  - now
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  - that cannabis does anything for any medical condition.
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  - There was a very nice paper out of
• 11:26
  - Harvard by Kevin Hill and Michael Hsu, and
• 11:29
  - we're happy to send that to you. And
• 11:30
  - they scoured the medical literature looking at,
• 11:34
  - cannabis for pain, cannabis for anorexia, cannabis for
• 11:38
  - a variety of things.
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  - But the... Their conclusion was, basically,
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  - it doesn't help for the things
• 11:45
  - that it's supposed to help with or is
• 11:47
  - claimed to help with. And, actually, the... At
• 11:50
  - the DEA hearing,
• 11:52
  - when you're talking about the HHS
• 11:54
  - study and specifically as it relates to pain,
• 11:58
  - what the DEA was relying on on that
• 12:00
  - HHS study
• 12:01
  - was a was a study that we don't
• 12:04
  - even know who the primary author was. We
• 12:05
  - can't reproduce the study. And two thirds of
• 12:08
  - the studies
• 12:09
  - showed no improvement in pain.
• 12:11
  - Zero improvement in pain. One study showed worsening
• 12:14
  - of pain, and only one study looked at
• 12:17
  - smoked
• 12:18
  - marijuana and was a very
• 12:20
  - small number of patients in a very controlled
• 12:23
  - environment
• 12:24
  - with very low potency
• 12:26
  - marijuana.
• 12:28
  - So it was a very weak study.
• 12:31
  - So that was the only thing that the
• 12:32
  - DEA and eight was relying on was a
• 12:35
  - very weak study and a study out of
• 12:37
  - Florida,
• 12:38
  - as well, the University of Florida study that
• 12:40
  - had a lot of weaknesses in it. So
• 12:43
  - the DEA is relying on very thin ice
• 12:47
  - for their recommendation of moving
• 12:49
  - cannabis from schedule one to schedule three. And,
• 12:52
  - again,
• 12:53
  - I'm not a nihilist or prohibitionist. I 100%
• 12:56
  - support the development
• 12:58
  - of cannabis based medication,
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  - but we don't... We're not there yet in...
• 13:02
  - Despite the fact that we've had over 8,000
• 13:04
  - studies
• 13:05
  - on cannabis. And it hasn't... It... It's failed
• 13:08
  - every single metric of public health and safety.
• 13:11
  - It doesn't make you a safer driver. It
• 13:12
  - doesn't make you smarter.
• 13:14
  - It doesn't... There's some evidence that might get
• 13:17
  - you off opioids, but as a pain physician,
• 13:19
  - that was not my clinical experience.
• 13:21
  - Because when I had these patients in Colorado
• 13:23
  - coming to me on a very high dose
• 13:24
  - of opioids, which is the whole other discussion
• 13:27
  - and problem we're contending with. They had very
• 13:29
  - high levels of pain, and they were using
• 13:31
  - marijuana for pain.
• 13:33
  - When I asked my patients to taper their
• 13:35
  - opioids and use their marijuana,
• 13:37
  - ninety nine percent of them said, no way.
• 13:40
  - I'm gonna stick with the opioids.
• 13:42
  - And so I asked them why, and they
• 13:44
  - would tell me because it doesn't help their
• 13:46
  - pain. And so that's when I took this
• 13:49
  - deep dive into the science and ended up
• 13:50
  - doing all the work that I'm doing. And
• 13:52
  - out of curiosity,
• 13:54
  - I was... I was wondered how easy it
• 13:56
  - was to get a marijuana card in the
• 13:58
  - state of Colorado.
• 13:59
  - So I applied,
• 14:01
  - and for... I have knee issues. I had
• 14:02
  - a knee replacement recently.
• 14:04
  - And I'm telling you, within sixty seconds, I
• 14:06
  - was approved for severe pain. And the recommending
• 14:09
  - physician never asked me my level of pain,
• 14:11
  - which on average, about zero to two out
• 14:13
  - of 10 at the time.
• 14:15
  - Never asked if I had tried physical therapy,
• 14:17
  - what other medications I had, what drug interactions
• 14:19
  - could be there. Never looked at my MRI
• 14:22
  - reports.
• 14:22
  - Just said your knees hurt. Okay. Severe pain.
• 14:25
  - Here you go. One minute. Here's your pass.
• 14:27
  - And I got that renewed a year later
• 14:29
  - with no fanfare. It was very easy to
• 14:30
  - get renewal. So it kind of underscores
• 14:34
  - some... The part of the ruse of these
• 14:35
  - medical marijuana programs and actually maybe doing a
• 14:38
  - disservice
• 14:39
  - to the patients that actually may benefit.
• 14:42
  - Sounds a little bit like you were a
• 14:43
  - secret shopper. You know, I asked people to
• 14:46
  - come and visit me and I wanted to
• 14:47
  - go in with a journalist and say, look,
• 14:49
  - let's go to the dispensary. Let's ask questions
• 14:51
  - because the only requirement to be a butt
• 14:53
  - tender or the person behind the counter in
• 14:55
  - the state of Colorado
• 14:56
  - is you have to be 21 years of
• 14:58
  - age, have experience with marijuana, and a pulse.
• 15:01
  - You do not need any metal... Medical background
• 15:03
  - or training,
• 15:04
  - no maintenance of certification,
• 15:06
  - and patients are relying
• 15:08
  - on these budtenders
• 15:10
  - to tell them to use a product where
• 15:12
  - they they may be an adverse event.
• 15:15
  - So I actually asked my recommending physician, what
• 15:18
  - if I had palpitations? You're my marijuana doctor.
• 15:21
  - What if I have palpitations? My my heart
• 15:23
  - is racing, or what if... Can I get
• 15:25
  - behind the wheel?
• 15:26
  - And she kept deferring. She said, well, if
• 15:28
  - you have problems with it, go see your
• 15:30
  - primary care doctor. And her response in my
• 15:32
  - driving was, well, you can take as much
• 15:35
  - marijuana as you want as long as you
• 15:36
  - think you're okay.
• 15:38
  - You didn't ask anybody that's drunk before.
• 15:41
  - You know, they feel fine, but they're weaving
• 15:43
  - along the road, and they get in a
• 15:44
  - car crash.
• 15:45
  - And I think it's very important for listeners
• 15:47
  - to understand
• 15:48
  - that not any... Not everyone that uses marijuana
• 15:51
  - is gonna have a problem.
• 15:52
  - Right? And it's... You know, because we... I
• 15:54
  - sound like a nihilist, but I'm not. But
• 15:57
  - not everybody that drinks a beer is gonna
• 15:58
  - get a car crash. Not everybody that smokes
• 16:00
  - a cigarette is gonna get, lung cancer, and
• 16:03
  - not everybody that takes an opioid is gonna
• 16:05
  - overdose. So not everybody that uses cannabis is
• 16:08
  - gonna have a problem. But what we're
• 16:10
  - seeing as these programs are expanding, more people
• 16:13
  - are using, we're starting to see the public
• 16:15
  - health and safety implications.
• 16:16
  - And like I mentioned earlier, marijuana has failed
• 16:19
  - every single metric of public health and safety.
• 16:23
  - Where do you see kind of the strongest
• 16:26
  - evidence that shows,
• 16:28
  - like, a benefit to... Or health care benefit
• 16:31
  - to medical marijuana?
• 16:34
  - Right now, I don't see any health care
• 16:36
  - benefits to marijuana from a medical... And, actually,
• 16:39
  - most people were using their marijuana
• 16:43
  - recreationally under their medical marijuana program. I think
• 16:45
  - people were medicinalizing their recreational use because it
• 16:48
  - was cheaper, because of the tax structure.
• 16:50
  - Again, the the the scientific literature is very
• 16:53
  - weak
• 16:54
  - in terms
• 16:55
  - of benefits.
• 16:57
  - Even, you know, if I... And I'm I'm
• 16:59
  - more than happy to send you the the
• 17:00
  - paper that outlined that. I mean, going back
• 17:03
  - to Penny Whiting in in 2015 and the
• 17:05
  - National Academies of Science paper in 2017
• 17:08
  - that relied very heavily on
• 17:10
  - the Whiting paper that showed benefits in pain,
• 17:13
  - for example,
• 17:14
  - but they didn't work. Most of those studies,
• 17:16
  - nearly all of them, use products that are
• 17:19
  - not available in The United States like Sativex.
• 17:21
  - They were using synthetics like nabilone and dronabinol,
• 17:25
  - and very few
• 17:27
  - looked at dispensary cannabis,
• 17:30
  - and not the products that people were actually
• 17:32
  - consuming.
• 17:33
  - You know? So they were looking at low
• 17:35
  - potency, you know, maybe 5% THC,
• 17:39
  - not the average flower that's, you know, 20%.
• 17:42
  - They have the 30, 35%
• 17:44
  - flower and then dabs, waxes, and shatters of
• 17:46
  - the world that are 85% or higher that
• 17:48
  - are still considered medical products in in many
• 17:51
  - states. Those are very, very strong products.
• 17:54
  - So the the data that they're relying on
• 17:56
  - isn't what people are actually using. And that's
• 17:59
  - that's why I have a problem with
• 18:02
  - where it's at now and moving it to
• 18:04
  - another schedule
• 18:05
  - when we don't have the data to support
• 18:07
  - it, especially with the FDA hasn't support... Hasn't
• 18:11
  - authorized or approved a single medical condition for
• 18:14
  - the use of raw cannabis.
• 18:16
  - So when a patient, like, comes into your
• 18:19
  - practice and, like,
• 18:21
  - asks about
• 18:23
  - cannabis or, like like you, said, like, in
• 18:26
  - Colorado Springs, like, some patients would come in
• 18:28
  - who, like,
• 18:30
  - have prescriptions to opioids, but then also,
• 18:32
  - like, take cannabis.
• 18:35
  - How do you recommend, like, handling that conversation?
• 18:39
  - I think it's very important that physicians have
• 18:43
  - a few things. They need more training.
• 18:45
  - They don't get any training in medical school
• 18:48
  - on the science of cannabis, and I think
• 18:49
  - the the cannabis science is fascinating to me.
• 18:52
  - It's very complex. It's... The endocannabinoid
• 18:54
  - system in our body is ubiquitous. It's on
• 18:56
  - every organ
• 18:58
  - in the body, and I think physicians and
• 19:00
  - medical providers need to have these open conversations
• 19:03
  - with their patients. So number one, they need
• 19:05
  - to understand the science.
• 19:07
  - I published a paper with a medical student
• 19:08
  - several years ago on having these conversations
• 19:11
  - and risk factors. For example,
• 19:13
  - if I had a patient that had a
• 19:15
  - history of heart attack,
• 19:16
  - they were stented a few times, they have
• 19:18
  - a strong family history
• 19:20
  - of risk of stroke, risk of recurrent heart
• 19:22
  - attack,
• 19:23
  - They may not be the right person to
• 19:25
  - be using cannabis because the the the risk
• 19:28
  - of use of cannabis in the cardiovascular
• 19:31
  - literature shows an increase of sudden death, heart
• 19:34
  - attack, stroke, and arrhythmia.
• 19:36
  - So the, I can counsel my patients on
• 19:38
  - that. If they have a history of major
• 19:40
  - depression
• 19:41
  - or they're on antidepressant medications, there's a drug
• 19:44
  - interaction with cannabinoids and,
• 19:48
  - antidepressants.
• 19:49
  - So I have to have a counseling session
• 19:51
  - regarding that. And I can tell you when
• 19:54
  - Stanford and UCLA
• 19:56
  - UCLA
• 19:57
  - invite me back year after year after year,
• 19:59
  - it's because the medical providers don't know this.
• 20:03
  - So if the medical providers don't know this,
• 20:05
  - the general public
• 20:07
  - certainly does not know this.
• 20:08
  - I had a I had a patient to
• 20:10
  - a little lady that had osteoarthritis
• 20:12
  - of her knee, and she was using CBD
• 20:15
  - for her pain and her arthritis.
• 20:17
  - But she was also on, anti inflammatory medication
• 20:20
  - called meloxicam.
• 20:22
  - So I go to a a website called
• 20:23
  - drugs.com,
• 20:24
  - and I put in meloxicam
• 20:26
  - and I put in drug interactions and I
• 20:28
  - put in cannabidiol.
• 20:29
  - And there's a major interaction
• 20:32
  - with CBD
• 20:33
  - and anti inflammatories
• 20:35
  - for risk of liver injury. So if you
• 20:37
  - have a per... A patient that already has
• 20:39
  - an underlying liver disorder
• 20:41
  - taking anti inflammatories and then the add CBD
• 20:43
  - on top of it, that's something I need
• 20:45
  - to have a counseling session about. But providers
• 20:48
  - just don't know this, and I think we
• 20:50
  - need... That's why I do what I do,
• 20:52
  - because I wanna get the information out that
• 20:55
  - there may be some... I think there are
• 20:57
  - medical benefits to the components of the plant,
• 21:00
  - 100%,
• 21:01
  - but we don't have the products available that
• 21:03
  - are currently frequently contaminated.
• 21:05
  - They're mislabeled.
• 21:07
  - They have things in there that people should
• 21:08
  - not be consuming.
• 21:10
  - So we have to have these conversations with
• 21:12
  - our patients about their use
• 21:14
  - and the risks to the use.
• 21:17
  - And that,
• 21:18
  - current...
• 21:19
  - Most of the current studies we have
• 21:21
  - don't actually represent what are in, like, you
• 21:24
  - know, the store down the street where you
• 21:26
  - can pick up.
• 21:28
  - Like... Right. And I think products are just
• 21:30
  - highly variable now, and the delivery systems are
• 21:32
  - very variable. And and if you're inhaling cannabis
• 21:35
  - versus an edible,
• 21:37
  - the the pharmacodynamics
• 21:38
  - are very, very different. And the onset may
• 21:40
  - be delayed in the edible world,
• 21:43
  - and people, they'll take a a part of
• 21:45
  - a cookie. And, you know, I don't know
• 21:46
  - how anybody can eat it one sixth of
• 21:48
  - a cookie because, you mean, I can eat
• 21:49
  - an entire sleeve of Girl Scout cookies in
• 21:52
  - one sitting.
• 21:53
  - But, you know, people have... There was a
• 21:54
  - a gentleman by the name of Levi Tamba,
• 21:57
  - from... He was a, an exchange student in
• 21:59
  - Wyoming and came down to Colorado in 2014
• 22:02
  - when we legalized,
• 22:03
  - and he ate an entire...
• 22:05
  - He ate one entire cookie. He was only
• 22:07
  - supposed to eat a sixth of a cookie,
• 22:09
  - but after a few minutes, it didn't he
• 22:11
  - didn't feel anything. So we took another sixth
• 22:13
  - and ended up with the entire cookie and
• 22:15
  - then became acutely psychotic and jumped out a
• 22:17
  - window and died.
• 22:19
  - So the psychosis issues,
• 22:21
  - the education is paramount
• 22:24
  - in the medical world. And a lot... Again,
• 22:26
  - a lot of providers just don't know.
• 22:28
  - And that's why I thank you for this
• 22:30
  - opportunity for sure because I think it's gonna
• 22:32
  - get some information out there.
• 22:33
  - Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining.
• 22:36
  - I know we're coming up on time, but
• 22:37
  - my last question is, like, is there anything
• 22:39
  - we didn't cover that you think it'd be
• 22:41
  - remiss if we
• 22:43
  - didn't discuss? Boy, there's... You know, I think
• 22:45
  - you have job security in this space.
• 22:48
  - The things that are kind of dear to
• 22:50
  - my heart
• 22:51
  - are in utero exposures,
• 22:53
  - and the data with in utero exposures is
• 22:56
  - is frightening because more women are using during
• 22:58
  - pregnancy, particularly first trimester,
• 23:00
  - which is a critical
• 23:01
  - period of organ development, particularly the brain development.
• 23:04
  - And some of the data that following
• 23:07
  - kids that are exposed in utero
• 23:09
  - over time with... During childhood or into early
• 23:11
  - adolescence, they're having problems.
• 23:13
  - The other things are child poisonings,
• 23:16
  - related predominantly to the edibles.
• 23:18
  - And I think every single state that's gone
• 23:20
  - down this road has seen a spike in
• 23:22
  - the number of kids under the age of
• 23:24
  - five ending up,
• 23:25
  - with a problem because of their... The marijuana
• 23:27
  - poisonings.
• 23:29
  - And there's a lot of data showing that
• 23:31
  - some of these kids end up on a
• 23:32
  - ventilator,
• 23:33
  - because they do not metabolize cannabinoids like an
• 23:36
  - adult. So I think that the things that
• 23:37
  - are reported to me are in utero exposures,
• 23:39
  - child poisonings,
• 23:41
  - protecting our youth's brains,
• 23:43
  - you know, delay onset of use because the
• 23:45
  - brain isn't fully developed until 25. Some people
• 23:47
  - are even saying 30,
• 23:49
  - but it's not for,
• 23:50
  - an adolescent to be using for sure. Driving
• 23:53
  - impairment is another thing. The roads... You know,
• 23:55
  - the the presence of marijuana in in the
• 23:57
  - fatality data across all these states,
• 24:00
  - is is frightening. Our states are less safe.
• 24:03
  - So it's following the same playbook as big
• 24:06
  - big tobacco and big alcohol. You know, it's
• 24:09
  - simply another addiction for profit industry
• 24:11
  - that is showing that there's problems.
• 24:13
  - You know, for these other substances that we've
• 24:16
  - done a terrible job with, by the way,
• 24:18
  - we have not done a good job with
• 24:20
  - tobacco, alcohol, opioids.
• 24:22
  - Those ships have left the harbor.
• 24:24
  - The marijuana boat is still in the harbor,
• 24:26
  - and I think we can probably put some
• 24:29
  - caps and guardrails
• 24:30
  - on that so we keep their community safe.
• 24:33
  - So I'm not saying
• 24:35
  - prohibits. I'm not a prohibitionist. I say,
• 24:39
  - really about patient and consumer safety and protection.
• 24:43
  - And industry needs to be at the table
• 24:46
  - making sure that the products that pea... People
• 24:48
  - are consuming
• 24:50
  - are not contaminated
• 24:51
  - and and safe.
• 24:52
  - For example, Colorado will issue a recall, like,
• 24:55
  - today, and they say, oh, today's October 8.
• 24:57
  - Well, return your product that you bought in...
• 24:59
  - Between June and August. Well, you know what?
• 25:01
  - Those products are already gone. The harm has
• 25:04
  - already been done.
• 25:05
  - Products should not hit the shelf
• 25:07
  - and be contaminated
• 25:08
  - on the frequency that it's happening because it's
• 25:11
  - causing public harm.
• 25:13
  - And the boat's still in the harbor? The
• 25:14
  - boat's still in the harbor. And we should...
• 25:16
  - I I like the analogy somebody mentioned years
• 25:18
  - ago. We should not be building the plane
• 25:21
  - while we're flying it.
• 25:23
  - All the time we have today, but I
• 25:24
  - just wanna say thank you so much, doctor
• 25:26
  - Fint, for joining us. No problem. Thank you
• 25:28
  - so much for the opportunity, and consider me
• 25:30
  - a resource down the road. If anything pops
• 25:32
  - up, just, you know, shoot me an email
• 25:33
  - or text or what have you, and more
• 25:35
  - than happy to respond. Thank you so much.
• 25:37
  - You bet.