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Album 7 Track 6 - The Ride of a Lifetime with/Jack Mudd · Brands, Beats & Bytes

• DC: Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds, Brand Nerds. What's good out there people. Y'all already know what it is. This is Brands Beats and Bytes back at you for another podcast. And LT, we have a unique, a unique guest today. We love all our guests. Yeah, we, we love all our guests, but Brand Nerds, um, there is a word that you will hear when it comes down to startups and the word that you will often hear is exit. When folks get into startups, oftentimes they are looking for an exit and Brand Nerds by exit. That's just a euphemism for money, for bank. When would a money come out of this thing when I exit this particular startup? That's what a lot of startups, uh, attract. They attract folks who are. Interested in the, in the exit. Rarely Brand Nerds, do you find someone who goes into a startup and makes it part of their lives? And then it works with people that says, well, you know what? We're going to build this thing for as long as it takes. It doesn't mean that there will not be an exit. It just means the primary objective of the people building it was not an exit. Brand Nerds, you are about to hear from someone who this, this word has been overused. So just give me a little latitude here, Brand Nerds who is really about joy. Yeah, really about joy. And. LT, when you get someone who's great at business and also great at bringing joy and connecting those things, you got something special. Who do we have in the building today, LT? LT: Well, that's a great preface, D. Super preface. DC, we have Jack Mudd in the house today. Welcome, Jack. Jack Mudd: Welcome, guys. Housekeeping just opened the door in my hotel room, but we'll carry on. Carry on. That intro was fantastic. Um, you know, DC, it is all about joy. The OneWheel experience is, is, um, is a pure joy experience. And, and, uh, my career, uh, to this point has been about, uh, sharing that with as many people as possible. So, so yeah. LT: So I don't mean to interrupt you, but we are going to give the Brand Nerds, cause they got, I really understand who we have in the virtual building today. So I'm going to clue them in a little bit further. Okay, so branders check this out Jack grew up here in the San Francisco Bay Area attending this mental school and then heading out the University of Oregon, where in 2013 he earns his Bachelor of Science degree in sports business. Well after graduating Jack immediately puts that degree to good use joining a company named Future Motion, makers of the OneWheel If you don't know what OneWheel is, we suggest you go check out their website at www. onewheel. com. But to give you a quick description, think of a skateboard that has just one big wheel in the middle, powered electronically, and in essence is a self balancing single wheel electric board gyroscopes to maintain balance and stability. Future Motion was started by Kyle Dirksen, and OneWheel was launched in 2014. It's a little bit more than 10 years ago with a kickstarter campaign for the original OneWheel raising more than $630,000. Jack has played a key role throughout each stage of the company's growth. He joined the team as its first employee for a six week, unpaid internship to manage its Kickstarter launch. And by the way, this was the hopes. He was hoping that he would do a good enough job that he might be lucky enough to get a OneWheel for himself. He now runs marketing with the title of Chief Evangelist and D, check this out. I love this title. This is not selling canned vegetables. No offense to those who do. This is a brand that needs to be marketing itself as a movement. And little things like calling the head of marketing, Chief Evangelist, does that. FutureMotion is a private company based in Santa Cruz, California, with more than 70 employees, and all of their products are made here in the USA, just up the road at their factory in San Jose, California. The company is committed to designing and developing inspiring vehicles holding more than 110 patents, providing both the thrill of board sports and convenient transportation. D, but that's wonderful. And clearly they're making a great product, but you and I both know a great product is simply not enough to build a flourishing business. Our man Jack here has built a brand that emotionally connects with people. And that is the real engine and this is pun intended. Since Jack has been with the company from day one, he is the driving force behind the marketing that has brought the OneWheel brand to where it is today. Under his leadership, there are now hundreds of thousands of passionate OneWheel riders worldwide who use their boards for everything from recreation to urban commuting to off road adventure riding with the board's all terrain capabilities. OneWheels have been ridden in 139 countries. And I've covered 170 plus million miles. The brand is now sold in more than 700 retailers in the U S along with networks in Europe and Australia, and has grown to become the largest domestic manufacturing of light electric vehicles in the U S. Today, Jack manages a marketing of team of 10. But has maintained the same core ethos since day one, his deeply relationship driven marketing approach has been foundational to the brand success, emphasizing passion, authentic connections and building a vibrant community. The brand has taken on a cult like status to many of its riders and has become much more than a hobby. It is part of their identity. To bring this to life, Onewheel is known for memorable campaigns. Such as quote, "Destroy Boredom" initiative and quote, the most boring town in America contest. I want to hear more about that one. And the OneWheel racing league, which includes the popular race for the rail annual world championship. As Jack actually says, they are helping to spread pure joy and moments of oneness with the universe, and are in the business of making the future rad and having a grand old time doing it. FYI, Brand Nerds, depending upon the model, the OneWheel boards retail for around $1,000 to $2,900. Lastly, in his spare time, Jack enjoys backpacking, fly fishing, and cheering on good old University of Oregon football, University of Nike, right, Jack? And he lives in Santa Cruz, California with his fiance, Heather, and their cats, Biscuit and Miffy. Really looking forward to this one. Welcome to Brands, Beats, and Bytes. It's Jack Mudd. Jack Mudd: Wow, LT, you just got me really fired up there. That was fantastic. LT: You did it, brother. Jack Mudd: Thank you. Thanks for, thanks for having me. Um, you know, really appreciate, uh, the chance to be on here. Share, share whatever wisdom I've gathered over the last, uh, 10, 11 years with, uh, with the listeners here today. Um, particularly maybe those who are just starting their journey. I think that's one of the things that I'm most grateful for in being in the same company from literally being the first person. I was working on a couch for the first year because we didn't have space for a desk. Uh, you know, was, was doing anything and everything that needed to happen. Um, till now, obviously, we're in a different position, you know, and my role and responsibility and what I Uh, think about as a little bit different these days. So it's been a super fun, it's been an incredible journey. Uh, it's been, it's been a real joy and, um, yeah, I just have to be here. I have to share, share what I've learned for sure. LT: Awesome. DC: I love watching the faces of our guests, Jack, when LT does a remarkable job of going over the experience, because we don't often have that done with someone right next to us or in front of us. And oftentimes the, the expressions of, uh, of guests, like even you here today is like, Oh, wow. Like that's, it's almost like you're hearing it and it's about another person, not about you. It's a really cool experience to, uh, to see that, but we're going to go to Get Comfy. And we start this before we get into our next segment where we started to break down questions. Brand Nerds, I'm going to mention the name of someone. His name is M Scott Peck. He is an author and perhaps his most famous book is The Road Less Traveled. The Road Less Traveled. Brother Jack, you started with this company six weeks, unpaid, unpaid, Brand Nerds, unpaid internship. So as you got out of school, there was like a fork in the road. Many of your classmates went the traditional route. They worked for some company. They were hired. Um, if they did an internship, it was probably paid or they just got a job offer and they did it. You go to a startup unpaid, take us back to your mindset as you were making that decision, because you could have made a different decision. Why did you make the decision you made to do a six week unpaid internship at a startup that no one had ever heard of? Jack Mudd: That's a great question. There's a great story behind, uh, the, the beginnings of Onewheel and, and how I got involved, which, uh, I feel like we probably have enough time. So maybe I'll, maybe I'll go down that path. Uh, so basically I connected, uh, you know, I went to business school, uh, at Oregon and it's sports marketing. And, you know, you learn about the importance of networking. You think maybe that's where you're going to find your career path. Right. But for me, um, it actually came through my mother's preschool. My mother is a preschool teacher and she had a parent that was at her school that, that, uh, said, you know what, there's a guy that, uh, that I know he's working on this thing. I don't really know much about it, but I think he might need, uh, you know, someone to help him with social media. Uh, there was nothing on the internet about it. Didn't exist. It was in stealth mode. And so I, uh, I went to, uh, to go, you know, basically interview, visit him. Um, my, my mom made me, uh, wear a polo shirt, collared shirt, I remember, which I felt ridiculous because I walked into this like machine shop, which is where Kyle was, you know, designed the first prototypes. Felt like an idiot. Um, And he was looking for a social media, uh, intern to help him get, um, the Kickstarter project off the ground. And I had never had any social media, but I completely lied my way, uh, through that interview. And just said, you know, I'm 22 years old, of course I know what I'm doing. I like went home and like started a Twitter account, um, to send to him. And, uh, anyways, we left that day very unclear as to if I got the gig or not. Kyle was like, you know, I'll call you. Um, so maybe a month later, I am at my grandparents house over Christmas and, um, which is, which is in New Mexico. I get a call from Kyle that says, Hey, I'm about to head to CES in Las Vegas. Which is the big, you know, consumer electronic trade show. It's one of the biggest, um, tech trade shows that, that there, it's probably the biggest that, that exists. Going to CES and you know, I actually could use your help. Uh, are you free to, to like, come out there with me? Uh, hop on a plane? And that was the moment, uh, DC where it's like, okay, the opportunity, the door is open, the opportunity is here, tons of uncertainty there, like we hadn't discussed, you know, pay or responsibility, like nothing, you know, there's, this thing didn't exist yet. So, uh, I just said, yes, my, I mean, my mom, um, has always been a spontaneous person and she's like, yeah, get, get on the plane, go do it. So flew out there. It's funny. I remember this is 2013. This is the start of Airbnb as well. So Kyle said, come meet me at an Airbnb. I come and it's the whole concept was very foreign. The guy, the Airbnb host was in the house too. He's just sitting in the living room the whole time. I swear. I remember thinking this Airbnb thing is not going to work. This is incredibly awkward. So, um, and I'm hanging out there in Kyle, doesn't show up. Kyle's nowhere to be seen. I find out later that Kyle is maniacally working back in, um, back in, you know, California to try to make the first prototype work. Uh, he pulled two all nighters to try to get that first prototype working before driving out to CES. So I'm sitting with my Airbnb host. You know, not knowing what I'm doing, what's going on, if this is a real thing, et cetera. Um, and I get a, you know, eventually I get a call from Kyle, he says, Hey, I am, um, I'm at a Starbucks in the middle of nowhere in Nevada. I need to book it to the convention center to get there before they close the doors. My phone's on 1 percent and I'm launching the Kickstarter. Good luck. Yeah. Wow. And so I'm saying, I had no idea what to do, you know, you just like, Oh man, all right. I think I texted you know much. LT: I have a quick question for you, Jack. Yes. You were in your first meeting and up to that point, you knew you, you said it was in stealth, but you knew what the, what the product was right at that point. Jack Mudd: I knew what the product was. I had seen it. I had seen the Kickstarter. Uh, he had at that point put together the launch video for the Kickstarter project. Um, and that, and that was about it. So, so, um, I was familiar with what it was, but yeah, I'd never written it. Um, you know, we, I had, I had like, I think I put together a little press outreach list. Um, you know, and we had, we had like fired up the social media channels. Um, you know, we had 12 followers on Instagram. It was my mom, my aunt, Kyle's sister. Um, so it's just like, it was a really interesting moment, um, of just not knowing what to do and kind of just following the energy a little bit. Um, luckily, one of the spark notes here is the product is amazing. The Onewheel product is amazing. So we showed up, people were really interested. No one had seen anything like it. Um, you know, folks wanted to hop on it and cover it. Uh, so it was mentioned in a bunch of those best of CES things, and we got coverage from the Verge and whatnot. The product was not ready at all, you know, so there was, there was like things to iron out. Um, but I just remember that year as being really exciting. And I think that's why, you know, I didn't really, I think I had an interview with some agency or something that was a couple of weeks later. And I just wasn't interested because the OneWheel opportunity was, was, was just all in front of you. And you got the feeling. I remember riding in the parking lot, you know, um, shortly after that and be like, man, I can't sell a million of these things. I'm really fucking up. Because yeah, it's just, it's just, you have the feeling like you were, you were on the, on the edge of something. And I think a lot of that has to do with when people experience it. And if you watch them, like you're, you're saying you're watching me during the intro, it's that smile that you can't quite put back, you know, uh, yeah, it's just, it's, it's infectious. So, I had LT: A great job on that video, that 10 year video that you guys did, by the way. That really comes out. Jack Mudd: Oh, right on, thank you. Yeah. And then if I was to go into sort of like my mindset early, because there was no definition of really about like what I was, what any of us were doing, what Kyle was supposed to do, what I was supposed to do, et cetera. Um, and at the time it was just the two of us, um, my mindset, and I remember this very clearly. was just to make myself indispensable every single day. It was just, what can I do to make myself, to make it so that if Kyle has to let me go, he can't, you know, he can't, he can't let me go because I know how to, I'm, I'm the one communicating with the Kickstarter backers or I'm the one. posting to all the social media, um, you know, channels or whatever, those processes that I can learn and master. Um, I was getting lunch. I was going and picking up lunch on busy days, you know, coffee. Like I was, I was doing everything that I could just to make myself useful, make myself indispensable. Um, that, that's like, that was a defining memory of just like, I mean, I'm talking like the first, you know, six months. Right. Um, but I think that that, I think that that was, um, probably impactful. Um, we worked super hard. We worked really hard and, um, yeah, there's just, there's something exciting about those moments where, uh, there is not a ton of definition and it's all about what you can, what you can, you know, uh, generate yourself. You know, the energy that you can generate yourself. Um, I do think, I guess, just to expand, we did a good job in those early days. And this is a credit to Kyle. Kyle worked at IDEO, um, before all this. So he was pretty familiar with getting new, which is like a, uh, eight, you know, design consultancy in the Bay area. LT: Jack, let me just interrupt you quickly because I want people who don't know about IDEO because us in the Bay Area, it's a big deal, but I don't know that it's a big deal, um, nationally and worldwide. IDEO is notorious in the Bay Area for, uh, being, for spawning really innovative, incredible products through the realm of all different types of products and being, uh, very thoughtful about all elements of it from design to function to everything. So Kyle started at IDEO and that is truly a. An incubator of not only great products, but great people so he started from a place of really having that kind of understanding that's pretty special. So I just want to add that to Jack, go ahead. Jack Mudd: Very important I mean, I think IDEO developed the mouse I could be wrong, but you know, you're right about that. Wow. They're they're not they're not messing around, right? So anyway, so a credit to Kyle because from the start, um We sat down and we said, what do we want this brand to be about? The only reference point that had existed at that time was really the Segway you know, with the self balancing capability. None of these e bikes or e scooters or e anything really existed in 2013, which is kind of surreal to think about. Um, but yeah, there was not really a frame of reference for what we were doing. What we were doing was completely new. Which is really exciting, but also really challenging because people don't have context, right? Where do I put this in my brain? So We were very intentional that we wanted this to be rooted in aspirational marketing we wanted to make this a forward sport. We looked at brands at the time like Red Bull and GoPro That had this aspirational element to them because we didn't want to fall victim to the same thing That Segway did, which is like, no one wanted to be seen on the thing, right? Um, that badge of what is a Segway rider never became something that's positive. And so, and so we were very, um, intentional from the start about trying to build, um, Build what that meant for us and sort of shape it in a different direction. And I think, you know, we've, I'm, I'm always critical. You know, I think we, there's ways that we could have done better for sure. But I think by and large, um, you know, we've done a decent job of that. We seeded a bunch of board sports people in those early days. And, um, you know, that permeates through and the content that we make and the culture that we've developed, you know, you mentioned we've like. Gone to make a racing league, you know, um, so I think a lot of that had its roots, um, in just like those first weeks of like, what is this? Let's, let's map this out carefully. DC, that was a long answer, but it was, you know, I don't know. I, in part, I feel like I fell into the current of this river back then. And, but, um, but I, you know, it was just an exciting opportunity. LT: Couldn't use that metaphor. You might've fallen into the current, but you steered and you were powering it to once you fell into that current. Jack Mudd: True, true. I think one other thing that I feel like was important that I think came sort of instinctually to me is developing a brand voice I remember, you know, you you as a young person you you think like, okay, I don't know what i'm doing Which is which is true, but then I started thinking. Okay, like if I need to speak to people. Why would I not speak to them? Why would I not speak as a brand as I talk to my own friends? Shouldn't, shouldn't my voice in through this brand be exactly how I would text my friend or talk to my friend? um, and I just I just followed my instinct there and I think that that was an important piece of, um, sort of like a guiding principle, particularly in those early days. But sometimes I feel like we get away from it now and we probably like as a larger company and it's, it actually gets more challenging once you're not the only person managing all the channels. Uh, to, to, to keep that, you know, ethos, um, but I, I think that that was like another thing that I remember. I think that made it easy for people to attach themselves to the brand early on, those early adopters. I think they could feel that this, this was not a corporate thing. This, this was, um, there was like soul behind this. There was, you know, humanity behind this. And I think that that was pretty important too. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just trying to remember all those early. The nuggets from those early days, you know. DC: Uh, Jack, you have dropped many, uh, jewels right now. We don't care about the length of your answer. It's not about quantity. It's about quality. The quality is on point. There's something I want to tease out on this for the brand nerds. And then we're going to go to our next segment. Startups have universally been accepted, Jack, as places where the product, in the early stages, isn't all sorted out. It has some rough edges. It has some quirks. It doesn't work all of the time, but because we are a. A, a world where we believe that folks that are in startups can fix these things. We wait for it to get worked out and we're okay with that. Interestingly though, when it comes to humans, we are not necessarily interested in the same process for ourselves. You were, you didn't know shit about social media, Jack, and you lied. So your product was not quite refined yet. In fact, it hadn't even started. And then you mentioned that you were with your grandparents over the holidays and that Kyle called you and said, "Hey, you want to go to CS?" Okay. Okay. Brand nerds. Holidays is December CES is not an April CES is the first the end of the first week in January. So he's called Kyle's calling Jack saying, yo, bro, um, do you want to get on the plane? Like now, to start making this happen. And so you did it even while sitting with an Airbnb host. Like, yo, dude, this is kind of awkward. You did that your product game in terms of your skill set. Wasn't together yet. But you work to make it come together and Brand Nerds, remember that you don't have to know at all. When you start, sometimes you've got to tell a little lie. Sometimes you got to try to act like, uh, I do know when you don't know it's all right, Brand Nerds. Cause you're on the way to something else. All right. All right, Jack, if you're going to say something, give it to me quick because we're going to go to the next questions. Jack Mudd: No, I think that's I think that's a beautiful way to put that there's everyone has a bit of that imposter syndrome I think right. Yes, particularly as a young person. You're like, oh everyone else must know these answers already Yes, I don't know these answers Maybe I should you know, but the fact of the matter is like a certain point you realize everyone's making it up. DC: Everybody Jack Mudd: Some people been making it up for longer than others to the point where they might not be making it up, maybe, but for the most part, you know, trust your, trust your instincts, you know, trust your instincts. DC: We're familiar with that phrase. We'll tell you why a little later. All right, we're going to go to five questions. So this is what goes down, Jack, Larry and I go back and forth. We ask you a question each until we arrive at five. I am kicking this thing off. What's the first branding experience that you can recall, Jack, where when you engage with the brand or the brand experience, you were like, Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute. The, the, the, the hair on the back of my neck is standing up. I'm, I'm like really into this thing. I can't even like stay focused. I can't wait to be engaged with this brand or brand experience. Almost like a first love. What was that for you? Jack Mudd: Easy, easy. So I grew up, uh, really a sports enthusiast. I played, uh, baseball. So for me, my first Rawlings glove. My first Rawlings glove, yes. My first Rawlings glove. DC: Nothing like the smell of that. LT: That's right. Jack Mudd: You guys send out these five questions ahead of time. So I had a little time to think about this. And I just thought about that first moment is like you take that glove home and I slept with it. LT: Yeah. Jack Mudd: I was trying to think there's no other I don't think there's any other product besides bed sheets that i've slept with. My glove, it's like, it's a piece of art, you know, it's leather It's beautiful. It smells good um, and Uh, you know to this day I still have I don't play baseball anymore haven't for whatever 15 years; but uh, you know, I still have my two my two rollings pro preferred gloves Which is what I graduated up to those are like the Best ones that you can get they have these little leather keychain fob attachments that I have on my car keys still, you know, this is a premium leather that I love. Oh, yeah, so and if there was a fire in my apartment my baseball gloves are within my top two To three things that I'm grabbing. LT: Wow Jack Mudd: and and I think that there is I was I was this. All that is just on feel. Like I was like, I slept with that thing. I love that thing. It feels like home. Right. And I was trying to think like from a marketing perspective, why, why is this? Today being able to co author the, a brand story or co produce a product, right? It's very hot in the marketing space. You put things on your Crocs and you know, now people are doing it with their water bottles, like, to be able to get involved with the product and the brand, um, you know, is, is obviously in vogue. Nothing is, nothing, um, can touch that, like, shaping a baseball glove. That baseball glove that I have is one of one. It fits my hand perfectly. I, I have co authored that product at the highest level. Um, and because, you know, I don't care about someone else's wrongs probed for a baseball glove, but mine, like, that's part of me. That's like, it's like the avatar moment, you know, with the flying creatures where the, their tentacles, you know, touch. Like, that's me in a baseball glove to this day, you know? So, um, that's, when you ask that question, that's, that's my first, that's my first thought. DC: Larry? LT: I've got nothing to add to that. I love the waxing poetic of it because it, you could feel the connection that Jack has. It's awesome. DC: I've not had a Rawlings glove in my possession for decades, but the moment you said Rawlings glove. I remember the smell of my glove. I remember putting a baseball in my Rawlings glove and putting it under my mattress. Right. And sleeping on it. What a great example. What a Wow. Wow. Alright Larry, next question brother. LT: Alright. So Jack, um, who has had or is having the most influence on your career? Jack Mudd: Yeah, I would, I would say my boss, the founder and CEO of, um, Feature Motion creator of OneWheel, Kyle, uh, Dirksen, I would, I would say has probably had the biggest impact on my career. One gave me the opportunity to, I think something about Kyle is that he, he's always had a pretty big vision for what we're doing and has always sort of dared me to dream bigger, even as things have sort of been successful and gone our way. He's not really like a like a pat on the back. Oh, we're doing so good type of a person And I think that that's helped like it's always like, okay, we're here but like What about there? You know, like, how, how can we, how can we do something that we haven't done before? I think that's like a, an amazing, um, thing that, that was always present in our journey. It's like, okay, well, in order to do something new and interesting and noteworthy, like we gotta, we gotta be doing things that we haven't, haven't done. How can we go bigger? You know, if we haven't put up a billboard yet, like, let's get there. Let's, let's put, you know, let's, um, I guess he's always challenged me. And, and I think that that's been, um, the biggest driver. In my, in my, in my young career. Um, in addition to Kyle, Kyle's fantastic. He's an engineer by trade, but it has a really good sense too for, for marketing. And so we sort of like co, you know, uh, bounce all sort of concepts back and forth. And I consider him like a co conspirator on the marketing side. But in addition to Kyle, in the early days, Kyle actually had a list of marketers that he wants, you know, aspired to sync with and, and connect with. And on that list was, um, this guy named Paul Crandall, who was the CMO at GoPro during GoPro's heyday. And before that, um, did sports marketing for Red Bull. Um, Paul Crandall actually co created Red Bull Rampage, which is like one of the most amazing events. Um, it's, it's a, uh, mountain bike event that happens in Utah to this day. Um, you know, gazillions of impressions online of, of. of that, um, event. Anyways, I was riding a Onewheel through GoPro's parking lot on the day of their IPO, and this big tall guy said, hey, you know, come over here, I want to ride that thing. And got him zooming around, we were, you know, having a great time around the parking lot. Turned out to be Paul Crandell. Um, so, Paul Crandell, um, became like a LT: And that's in San Mateo, right? Jack Mudd: That's in San Mateo, yeah. LT: Yep. Jack Mudd: So Paul Crandall ended up coming on board as a, an investor in Onewheel and has also been a mentor to me and I think, um, one of the, one of the best things about Paul is Um, Paul, again, it's like Paul just likes to go big, you know, he's like, he has this screw your short term ROI ethos. He wants to, you know, GoPro was pulling up with like 18 wheelers to their trade shows, you know, huge branding. Paul's always like, can you throw the biggest, baddest party with all the coolest people, you know? And it's like a not, I'm sure he has an academic approach to marketing. But it feels so it like it's like really is throwing a party like count like that's that's us doing our job now like what he's right like that's how you like it marketing is about influence right and so like do you have the right people in the right places doing the right things um and i think he's a master of that um and i try to try to do that and i think i could probably done some of that could do better but um but Paul's been amazing he'd be a great guest um you As well for you guys down the road. Paul's a really cool guy. LT: You're going to help make us happen, right? Jack Mudd: Sure. LT: Jack. Thanks. Jack Mudd: Totally. LT: I've got nothing. That's amazing. I love where you, you went with that. Um, both obviously Kyle's obvious because of, you know, of beginning to now and, and the connection, um, to Paul is amazing. And D what I'm struck with is also how uh, both Jack and Kyle seemingly have looked at brands that they see that emotionally connect with folks. And oh, by the way, that we, and this is our parlance, Jack, the brand lover for GoPro, uh, the brand lover for Red Bull and the brand brand lover for OneWheel are very similar. They're the adventure seeking folks who, uh, who work to live, not live to work. Right. That's if you think about it there, there's a very similar ethos there and you guys have done a great job in in consciously figuring that out and the fact that you also thought about brand first. Um, what you said earlier about brand being first and that you and Kyle and then Paul, there's a throughput there that I think is really cool. D, uh, you wanna, uh, before, uh, y you have anything to add before you wanna go to the next question? DC: Just one, before going to the next question. I don't get the impression, Larry, that, uh, when Jack was rollin through, uh, GoPro's parking lot on his OneWheel, That he was doing so looking around, going, I hope Paul or someone notices me. I think the dude was just on a rad kind of slice up situation. And because of the, the, the joy that he was having, Paul was like, who the hell is that? Like who, who the hell is that? So I, I appreciate the organic nature of the two of them coming together. That's, that's dope. That's dope. All right. Next question. You're still relatively young in your career, brother, but you've had quite a number of successes and there are not many folks in the world who can say that they have been a part of building a brand that has not only impacted culture, but is, but has in some way influenced it, guided it, uh, attracted folks onto it. Like not many people can say that you have. And so therefore I consider that as I know Larry does. as a major win. You got many wins. This question has nothing to do with any of those wins, Jack. This question has to do with your L's and we want to know your biggest eff up of the juicy danky stanky eff up that you have made and importantly what you learned from it. Jack Mudd: Fantastic. Yeah. So if you biggest, biggest L's, I'll give you two. I'll give you two because the lessons are different. If you ask my boss, my biggest L is we had a, I produced a photo shoot. Um, and you know, how to conversation with talent, go line up the photographer. We shoot. It's fantastic. Great photos. Anyways, we never had a contract with the talent and personally I'm like a re I'm a relational person. I'm fast and loose. I'm informal, I am scattered, um, you know, off, chasing ideas left and right. I'm not super organized, um, but unfortunately, uh, some of those photos, some of those photos ended up going on, on a billboard campaign and that, uh, became an issue. Uh, because we didn't have a contract signed with that talent. So this is a very concrete thing here. You know, there's not an abstract lesson. It's like, have a contract. Details matter. Uh, you know, dot your i. You guys are Coca Cola people. Like you guys are, you guys are laughing. But, uh, you know, we're, we're our OneWheel marketing team. You know, we're a little, we're a little fast and loose. LT: So Jack, just one quick thing. Because at places like Coca Cola, the lawyers wouldn't have let us make that mistake. So we had, we had safety nets. DC: Yeah, we did. We did. LT: Go ahead. Jack Mudd: That's right. Yeah, exactly. But uh, but that one's, you know, fairly cut and dry. Um, but I think, you know, I was thinking back to sort of like more early, early stage career lessons to DC. And um, and I got one from that year as well. Back in the day when I was the only marketer it was all about how much output can you how much can you do? You know, yeah How hard can you work? What can you do? You're doing it all so me and my are our COO Who is the third person to join the company? We would stay up to like three in the morning, three or four times a week, just, just cranking. And we got so much done. We had a great time. Like it was, it was a, it was an awesome, awesome time. But when we hired our first two marketers to work with me, I didn't change my mindset. My mindset remained, how much can I do? And I think that really hurt us, because I just remember, uh, putting off a vibe to my coworkers, like, my work was more important, my work took, you know, like, they were bugging me by coming in and asking me questions, or Taking time out of what I was doing because I was stuck in this mindset of like, Oh, I have so much, I have to get done. I didn't shift to think about, okay, it's no longer about what I can do. It's about what us as a team can do. DC: Yeah. Jack Mudd: And I lost those two people and in it, in it, in it broke me up. I remember losing my first marketing employee and just being like, Oh, this is, this is irreparable. Um, and since then I really changed that mindset, um, to make sure that I'm pouring into my team, both professionally and personally, I think, you know, I think both, both matter. Um, and because of that, our team is super close knit. We have a number of folks that have been on the team, on the marketing team now for five, six years. Um, people want to stay people, people, you know, like their job, like working with me and, and hopefully, you know, have learned some stuff as well. So I think that was a big mindset shift that I had to learn by doing it. Um, I didn't go, I didn't go get my MBA. I didn't, I didn't, um, I had to transition myself from being a individual contributor to, to being a leader. And that was, that was a little bit challenging. LT: Yeah. I love that one. I know you've got thoughts. DC: Jack, if the brand nerds listening to this podcast, don't take anything away beyond what you're saying now, and you've already given a lot. They need to take this away. And that is the following. There is a point in, in most of our careers where we want to elevate, where you have to transition from individual contributor, which is where you were, Jack, and that is, doing great work yourself, yourself to leader and getting the best contributions from other people. That's a hard transition. You doing it and you being great versus you working with other folks and helping them be great. Brand Nerds, many people fail when they reach that fulcrum. They fail because they're super smart and they got rewarded with a promotion, with more money, with more responsibility, with people, et cetera, more resources. And then they fuck it up. Excuse my language. Because they can't make that transition. That, Jack Mudd, gold. Jack Mudd: I messed it up. LT: It's gold, but what's cool is that, Jack, like, that's one of those things that a lot of people, Jack, in the same situation would have had blinders and still would have said, well, that's it, I'm still producing great work. You're welcome. And I'll still keep doing that. And, and for you to learn that, uh, albeit the hard way and to take that in, and again, we always say actions speak louder than words that you have a marketing team of 10 and that the people clearly want to be there and are there for five years and whatnot in this day and age, that's, that's pretty rare. And actually that's much more powerful. With the, with the group approach that it will ever be with the, with the greatest lone wolf marketer. So it's really cool. DC: Yeah. Kyle is lucky to have you as is your team. It looked like you're about to say something before we go to the next question. Go ahead, Jack. Jack Mudd: No, it's okay. Um, no, yeah, we, we, you guys summed it up pretty well right there. I was, what I was going to say is just that I think, I'm not sure I even recognized it immediately. You know, when those people, those first few people left. It's easy to be like, they couldn't hang, they didn't want to work hard, you know, um, it does take a little bit of time or some awareness, right? To be like, okay, like maybe I actually messed this up. Maybe it wasn't that they were just, you know, not cut out for the job or X, Y, and Z. So, DC: well, well, Jack, before we go to the next question, uh, who did those two employees have in common as a boss? Yeah, that would be you, brother. That would be you. All right. Next question, Larry. LT: All right. Next question. So, uh, Jack regarding technology and marketing again, your product is based in technology. Right. But, um, and, and your brand is built off of that. Um, so you're a great person to ask this question. Can you tell us where you think marketers should lean in or best leverage tech? Or you can go to areas that you think they should be leery and simply avoid. Jack Mudd: Yeah, when it comes to the use of technology, I think um, You just want to make sure that whatever you're doing is valuable to the the person you're trying to talk to I think right and um There's a lot of examples. I think in the OneWheel context You know, we've, we've obviously used social media quite a bit to create a community. That's probably been, um, in my experience, the, where technology has helped us the most. Um, you know, you got to figure out on all these channels, like how, how to put them to work, uh, as, as best you can for what you're doing. Um, but yeah, just a, an incredible tool, obviously, in scaling, scaling, uh, your community, your culture, what you're about, letting people tap in, um, get involved, et cetera. I think one thing that I think about in terms of being leery that we try to keep in mind is like, it ends up being something that you feel like you have to do, right? Like you might have KPIs around how many Instagram posts you need to put up or what, you know, what you need to do on YouTube or X, Y, and Z. And when it becomes about checking a box, you got to be a little bit careful because yeah, is what you're doing still valuable or are you doing this so that you can tell your boss that like, you know, we got that post up and uh, we're hitting our, our, our targets. I think one of the things there that I try to think about is, is with everything you do with every post, what is your why? Why does this matter? Why is what you're doing or saying matter. It doesn't have to be profound, but if you can keep asking yourself that Then then I think you have a better shot of not wasting everyone's time Because people can tell when you're wasting their time, you know They can absolutely tell when you're wasting their time and and you know, shoot. Okay, you got to throw up a post on Instagram Yeah, either make it make it make it significant have that why or make it fun you know, um, I think that's something that I, that I've tried to, um, keep in mind, it does get harder as you scale as well. Like I said, in the beginning, um, you know, the, the, the bigger you scale to and the, and the more output you have, the harder it is to keep that around, that, you know, um, but just something, that's the first thing I thought of when it comes to, you know, OneWheel, our use of technology, um, in creating a culture around the brand. LT: D, you have anything, uh, to add to that? DC: Just one quick thing. Technology without soul is cold. Mm. And what Jack and the team do over at Onewheel and you said it when you talked about your brand voice is soul and humanity. Jack Mudd: Absolutely. Yeah. One of the things that, uh, about, about Onewheel that gets me the most fired up is just this ethos about connectivity. So much of, uh, our technology today, you know, um, divides us or brings us away from real experiences, you know, and, um, one of the coolest things about Onewheel is it, it, it can connect you with others. It can connect you with. amazing places and it can connect you with, you know, real experiences that, um, put a little wind in your hair or put a big smile on your face. You know, and I think that's one of the coolest things just about our product in particular. And, um, And, but, but in general, yeah, I think, um, it's, it's, as we all know, in this day and age, it's like, it's easy to, to become a, a slave to our technology, right? Instead of have it serve, serve us. And so, um, it's just at a high level, I think an important thing for everyone to try to hold, hold in mind. LT: Yeah, that's, that's really good. Before we get to the next question, uh, gonna throw it to the next question, just one, I have just one quick comment. And that is, uh, I think what you're saying, Jack, is, If you're just, you know, there's people, people always put out these formulas, Oh, well, you have to have X amount of Instagram posts a day or a week or whatever, and what you're, you're calling BS on that really, because that's checking boxes versus actually. Putting forth something that, as you said, is communicating your why. Um, there should be a reason behind it, and there's less of a chance of people ignoring something when they actually know that when you're posting something, it ain't bullshit. There's a genuineness to it that people actually are gonna wanna see versus just skimming through it. D, you wanna go to the next question? DC: I do. Jack, you've got a lot to be proud of. I'd like you to share what you're most proud of. Jack Mudd: Well, let's see. Of course, when I see a Onewheel zoom down the street, you know, look outside your window or whatever, you see that, like, I get a little, I feel a little, uh, moment of, of pride and, and, uh, feel very grateful to just have been in a position to help Something like that exists. I think that's kind of the cool thing, right? You know, for anyone that gets a, an opportunity to work on a brand, it's amazing. You pour yourself into it and ideally it becomes something outside of yourself, you know, in the world. Cool thing about the OneWheel, right? Is that they didn't exist before. So, you know, in some parallel universe, maybe it didn't work out and no one got to experience. That feeling of riding a OneWheel around, you know, uh, uh, but, uh, but so yeah, obviously pretty proud that, uh, that that's something that, that is available to people that that has, has like gone beyond our, um, It's like letting your kid go to college, you know, like it's on its own now. Like, yeah, I'm proud about that. And, and I think, um, even more so I'm just, I'm proud of, um, I've got to go a lot of cool places and meet a lot of amazing people. And I, I think I'm, I'm pretty proud of just the way that I've, um, interacted with the people that I've worked with, um, and met along the way and, um. And I, I, I think hopefully they would say that, you know, they have enjoyed, you know, hanging out with me, working with me. I, I think I've conducted myself in a way that I, I'm proud of. And, um, and I think, you know, your relationships at the end of the day are kind of how, how I feel like, uh, you, maybe you weigh yourself or how others weigh you, kind of both, right? Um, and so I, you know, I, I think that's been really meaningful. I met so many amazing people on this journey. Um, and I'm sure in, you know, all marketers and whatever path they take, you know, marketing is about connecting and, um, creating relationships. And, and so I think that's just, that's important. LT: Ooh, dude, you're hitting some, some great stuff here. Uh, I think, uh, when, when you're talking about, um, something and Brand Nerds, very few of us in marketing have had the opportunity, to be involved in a launch of a new product. And so, um, when DC did his magic on Sprite, Sprite had been around, but he, he completely metamorphosized the whole brand and changed it and awesome stuff. But I'll, I remember when we launched Powerade and I saw the first person, I could still see, I was in LA. When we launch Powerade, and I remember seeing a couple of young folks walking down the strand drinking Powerade, and it was like, it's a brand that just hit the shelf, you know, and so there's a feeling of, oh man, like that you have something to do with that. And so I love your description of when you see, OneWheel out in the wild, you know, you just happen to be walking around and you see folks, that's a really cool feeling and you should be proud of that. Jack Mudd: Thank you. I I do it's it's awesome It's real, you know, it's it's and it's a lot of fun. So it's definitely something I'm grateful for LT: Yes. DC: As well, you should be brother. LT: Yes Alright D. Should we go to the next section? Let's do it! Alright, this is, oh man, this is going so fast Jack, you're awesome. Um, so, Jack, what's poppin D? What's poppin!? DC: What's poppin?! LT: Jack, this is our chance to shout out, shout down, or simply air something happening in and around marketing today that we think is good fodder for discussion, and we understand that you have something good for us. So tee us up, Jack. Jack Mudd: What's poppin? Okay. So as we all know, we are all addicted to our phones and particularly short form video, whether that's YouTube shorts, Instagram reels or tick tock. I was reading some Forbes article, um, the other day about the rise in short form video. Our attention spans, I was reading some Forbes article, the other day about the rise in short form video. Our attention spans, are evaporating, right? I mean, we no longer have time for 60 seconds. It has to be 15 now. And I think one thing I want to bring up and ask the two of you is, I think it's interesting question of how do brands create relationships with consumers and define who they are in an increasingly small and smaller amount of time. It's an interesting challenge, but it also is an opportunity to, of course, LT: Yeah, it is an opportunity. D, you have any thoughts you want to share first? DC: You, you, you please go, brother. LT: Alright, so it's a great question, and if you think about it, we as marketers have always had different time constraints as it relates to, you know, whatever form there happens to be. And I think like anything else, we've had this conversation about AI. Are you in or you're not like, and for short form video, you're, you're totally right. It's such a big deal, but I think you got to lean in. And, and I think us marketers are always too, uh, concerned about trying to communicate everything. So, but if you think of short form video, and if you have, I'm making this up seven seconds or 10 seconds or 15, whatever it is. If you can communicate one cool thing or one connection, just do that. And by the way, you can go produce 20 of those different ones, but just do one thing in each one. And I think that's what happens, that we get all consumed with trying to communicate the proverbial kitchen sink. And that's where we lose it. But if you lean in all the way and focus on one thing that you're communicating, I think you can really use it in a great way. That's my initial thoughts. DC: Well, what a hell of a question. LT: It is a great question. DC: What a hell of a question, Jack. Were you going to say anything in response to what Larry said before I give you my take on this? Jack Mudd: No, you should, DC. DC: This is good. This is good. Oh, Jack. Oh, Jack. It will be hundreds of thousands of years from now where technology will be wired such that it can do things that we cannot imagine today. Hundreds of thousands of years from now, assuming we're all still around this, this, our, our species, we might be able to sit at our desk right here and do all of this with just our minds. No words, just our minds. We could be doing this. That's how technology is wired. But no matter what, as long as we humans around are around, we humans are also wired a certain way. And there's a reptilian thing that goes in the back of our brains that helped us stay alive in our infancy. It's like, Ooh, I don't see the saber tooth tiger, but I feel the saber tooth tiger and we need to get the hell out of here. All right. So what happens is that, uh, we feel something. And my belief is that no matter how long or short. The content is Jack and LT you got to make the people feel something if they don't feel anything you can hit them with a thousand six seconds they don't care. Whereas you make them feel something you could hit them with something two seconds long. They're going to be into it. So for me, Jack and LT, it's about the feels it's about the feels. Jack Mudd: What do you think is that? I, I love, I mean, I think that's right. I think that's, I mean, I think that's, that's, that's my, my instinct as well, right? It's like if you can, um, if you can communicate a vibe, it can, it can, I mean, we get a vibe from meeting people immediately, right? DC: Yes. Jack Mudd: You walk into a room, right? You have a feeling about the energy, the way someone presents themselves, their energy, right? We make those judgements. In a nanosecond, um, and so I, I think like that's probably the challenge for the brand, right? Is like, how do you, how do you introduce yourself, make your first impression? Um, in that same amount of time, like, you know, right as you walk in the door, uh, there's no, no time to warm up these days. So, LT: um, and that's where I, that's where I'm going to sort of meld with where DC is. Don't try and communicate how many horsepower you have. Like we, we always talk about laddering up jack is and laddering up means. The more you ladder up to it being emotion based, and that's where DC was going with the feels. That's where we're going. But again, if you can, if you lean in all the way, like I was saying, maybe you produce 20 different shorts, right? And maybe 80 percent of them are about the feels but then you have 20 percent that that do get into some of the functional areas that you can sprinkle in. Um, but it should be as DC has said about the feels but just do one thing, one thing in each of those videos because I again I where where you lose people is there's this and there's that and then it just It's gone, you you know Trying to do too much. Jack Mudd: And we we've been guilty of that too at times It's it's very tempting to have that it is feature creep, you know Well people what they want to know how fast they're going to go. They don't know what range they're going to get they want Like now they, they don't really, they want it, like they want to know if like, it's cool, you know? And then after that, they'll ask all those questions. DC: Then they'll ask those questions. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jack Mudd: But we, we've made those mistakes a million times for sure. So, so, so, DC: so, so, so have I. Yup. So have I, but I returned back to it quickly. Right. LT: The feel. That's, that's good. Well, you talked about how it feels, how the wind feels in your hair, and things like that. That's where, that's where you're going like, you know, that, that, uh, is really hard to replicate. D, I think we're done with this. What a great, What's Poppin by Jack, don't you think? DC: I'm, um, I'm melancholy. Like, I don't want this to end. I cannot believe we are at the end of the show. I've learned so much. LT: And speaking of learnings, that's where we're at. Jack, dude, you've laid down, as DC would put it, jewels that are so plentiful. So I'm going to try and tick some of these off. And I have about eight of them. All right. So the first thing is that, uh, keep your eyes open Brand Nerds. You know, Jack was talking about relationships and brand building. I mean, relationships and networking. Um, here, Jack, unbeknownst to him, there's, uh, a kid in his mom's preschool whose dad happens to have this cool thing. You just never know where your next opportunity may come from. So keep those eyes open all the time. Um, and when you are in a position of not knowing what to do, put your head down and make yourself indispensable. That's huge. That's number two. Um, number three is from the start, you notice, DC, that, uh, they said that Jack said that he and Kyle talked about this. They asked themselves, what do we want this brand? And that's in capital letters. What do we want this brand to be about? They didn't talk about the product. What do we want this brand to be about? That's huge. And then the next one is they looked at aspirational marketing such as Red Bull, Red Bull and GoPro. Um, and by the way, as I mentioned earlier, these are the same brand lovers. They got that intuitively as Onewheel is. Uh, then the next point is, and again, Jack hit this so early. Developing a brand voice. That's absolutely critical. You must have a brand voice, know it, and by the way, you can iterate it. You're going to learn. You, you, you do grow up. It can change, but you have to start with a brand voice. And as he alluded to, their brand voice fit their brand perfectly because they were talking about, um, Jack was saying that we want our brand voice to be like we're talking to our friends. It's not a corporate thing. There's soul behind it. And think about what Onewheel is. It could have been a segue, which felt like, like you said before, Jack, just this sort of amorphous product out there, but didn't feel like it had a soul, but the brand voice that you guys provided one way was a huge part of what of providing soul behind it. All right. The next, next learning like Kyle has done with Jack Brand Nerds, when you are leading people, set that bar high challenge yourself and your team. Challenge yourself and your team. And I have two more. As a marketer, do what Kyle has done. Find brands that you love and find the people behind them and go meet with them. Pick their brain. Almost all these folks will be very happy to meet with you and help you learn. And my last one on this Brand Nerds I'm going to use a Jim Harbaugh-ism. Okay, I know, uh, uh, might be, uh, you remember the days at Stanford and with the Niners here, uh, Jack, with Jim Harbaugh, now he's with the Chargers. He always talked about the team, the team, the team. Like Jack learned the hard way, it's more important for you Brand Nerds to drive great marketing as a team. And it will always be better and more powerful than the greatest lone wolf marketer. Those are mine. Those are great learnings, Jack. Thank you. Jack Mudd: I thought we were about to get who's got better than us, right? DC: That was great. Jack Mudd: Oh, that was amazing. Did I say all that? DC: Yes, you did, brother. LT: You didn't say it, you inferred it. It's DC's turn. DC: Larry is in his bag, okay? You gave him lots of things in the bag to pull from. Young Jack. Young Jack. This is, uh, one of the most enjoyable podcasts I've had. You are exceptional. Kyle is lucky to have you. Your team is lucky to have you and we as humans, we are also lucky to have you. I've had a ball, um, with, with, uh, this podcast with you and Larry today. And I am going to attempt to sum up what I believe, uh, Jack Mudd, you are offering to us the 7. 2, 7. 3 billion of us walking the planet. And, um, it started to take shape for me early in talking to you, Jack, started to take shape early. So I'm going to walk through this in three sections. The first section is as you were talking about how you ended up taking the opportunity for Onewheel. When Kyle called you at your grandparents and said, yo, you want to come to CES? And you did what you said was your reasoning. You said I was following the energy. I was following the energy and that took you from a holiday where you didn't know what was going to happen coming out of it to going to CES and it begins a career that you're still in today. So that's the first thing. The second was around the question. Of the um, the biggest eff up in the team, you begin to put together two folks, they ended up bouncing on you. And you said, I was putting off a vibe that, Hey, what I'm doing is super important. And when I'm, I'm grinding until three in the morning, like, what are you doing? Why are you wasting my time? I'm exaggerating to make a point here, but you said I was putting off that vibe. And then a little later on in your what's popping, when you asked this fabulous question about content and attention, et cetera, you then said. Yeah, you know, when you meet people, it's like, you get the vibe, they put off an energy. So, first, you said when you went to go start your career with, uh, with Onewheel, you were following the energy, and then second, with your marketing faux pas, which you have learned from and your what's poppin you mentioned vibe and energy. Third, can you just tell us in layman's terms, Onewheel product do what it does? Like what's, what's the, what's the technology behind, what? How does it stand on OneWheel and do all this and balance? What happens? Jack Mudd: Good. Good question. Yeah. So there's, there's a battery. Okay. And that, and a motor inside of the wheel, and then there's a controller, which is basically the computer, uh, in the, in the, also in the board. So you have, uh, two foot pads. You stand right on them. Yep. Battery on this side, controller on this side, motor in the middle. Yeah. And basically the, um, the controller is, is taking like something like 17, 000 calculations per second. Wow. Feeding that into the motor and it's adjusting constantly for you. Um, and if you lean right, the OneWheel responds by accelerating. If you lean back, it responds by. Decelerating. So it's, it's, um, it's pretty amazing, you know, and sometimes you're on the thing and you're like, I don't know, this is absolutely surreal, you know, how, how this is working at all. Um, but yeah, there's some energy in there for sure. You know, charge those things up. DC: So, uh, thank you, Jack. So here again, the very product to which Jack was attracted is based on a controller and a battery. A battery that gives power. And at the time, let's go back to when you decided you were going to go to CES. Kyle says, yo, man, I'm somewhere out here in the desert of Nevada. They're about to close the CES thing down. I need to get there. I'm trying to do Kickstarter and I have 1 percent battery on my phone, on my phone. This energy thing with you, brother is. It's not coincidental. It's not happenstance. I think it's central to who you are even down to so for the Brand Nerds that are listening to this and will not see this for nearly the entire time that Jack Has been on this podcast with us. He's had in his hand, this device that if you connect it into a computer, you can connect other devices to it. Mouse. Yep. There we go. Holding it up. You can do displays. You can do that. This device allows for the transfer and connection. Of energy, which leads me to this. I think Jack Mudd: that's because I, I had some cold brew this morning, so I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm fidgeted my energy. Oh, you fidgeting. Okay. I needed an outlet. I needed an outlet for my, that's your outlet DC: for your energy, for your energy. So, so check it out. My, my mom would say to me, rest in power, she would say, baby, uh, are you arriving at a point? And I would say, yeah, mom, I'm arriving at a point this was, she's like, can you just tell me what, so I'm arriving at a point here, Jack, your work title. Is Chief Evangelist of OneWheel, but I don't think that's your life title, brother. I don't think that's your role. I actually think your life title. One of them, not only, but one of them is Chief Evangelist of E equals MC square, which is Einstein's formulation for energy. That's his formula for energy. You are the chief evangelist for energy as you walk this planet, brother. It just happens to come through OneWheel now, but there are many different ways you have already done this in your life and that you will continue to do this. So brother, we are honored to be in the presence. Of someone who was the chief evangelist of E equals MC square, because you are a battery that might be powering far more than OneWheels. Brother. Jack Mudd: Wow. Come on, man. That's amazing. That is amazing. Uh, first of all, thank you. I'm very, uh, you know, honored to be, uh, bestowed that title. Um, I consider it a very high compliment. But past that, this whole time I've just been like, how do you, this is your one of one skill on, on display as well. Like you're, you're like a forensics expert in, in, in people. It's like that, that, again, that got me really fired up. LT: He's a little scary, Jack Mudd: Jack. You're right about that. Yeah, right? Like, I, you know, but that's awesome. And what a blessing. I mean, it's, it's an honor to be on the show and, and, and to be, uh, to be, uh, given such a title from DC. Is that, is it, uh, Would I be able to add that to my resume, you know, LinkedIn, like whatever you want to do with it, brother. DC: It's yours. Jack Mudd: There should be some official certification that you can hand out. I love that, man. LT: Hey, Jack. You've been amazing. Before we sign off here, anything you want to share with the brand nerds that you've learned from our conversation today? Jack Mudd: I think the one thing, LT, that you mentioned, that, that um, that's really true, particularly for people that are early in their career, is that, is that everyone is making it up, you know, and, and it's easy to assume that that's not the case. But, um, you know, you, you put in 10 years of doing something, you, you look back and you're like, I'm still making it up. I'm still making it up, I'm more confident in, in what I'm doing. No one knows the answers, we're all looking, we're all putting together our best thesis for what's happening, for how we can reach people, for how we can talk to people. Um. I guess one more thing. I went to a private high school where everyone was really smart. Everyone was really smart. I was the dumb kid, right? And, you know, I got this gig. I like assumed maybe I wasn't smart enough to do this. Like, how do you get a brand off the ground? I don't know. I'm of average intelligence. Well, I then had this thought that's like, wait a minute, most people are of average intelligence that by definition, right? I'm not only trying to reach geniuses out there. No, I'm trying to reach average people and relate to average people. So maybe if I take my gut feeling on how to talk to them, what they want to, you know, how to explain what this thing is, how to do events that they think are cool. Maybe that'll relate. You know, and, and, and that was like a little glimmer of confidence. In in in the averageness of myself that I think was kind of important in a way if that makes any sense to you guys It does. Um Have some confidence in yourself, you know Because yeah, everyone is making it up and you don't have to be some sort of rocket scientist. You just kind of got to trust your stuff as they say For, for pitchers in baseball. LT: You know, that's really interesting point. I think you're being a bit overly modest, Jack. And again, you know, having lived in the peninsula near where you went to Menist school, there is, uh, a whole lot of, uh, um, children of, uh, the mucking mucks of Silicon Valley who went to your high school. And, and so there's a, a level of, um, of let's say, uh, the bar is high, right? For people, and I'm sure you felt that. Um, and so, you know, you have to be a bit more of average intelligence to just figure out what you just said. Uh, you, you can still be somebody who understands what it's like, uh, to be someone who isn't at the 0. 1%, you know, um, and I think, I think you're a bit false, false, modest there, but I would also add and what you've done is, and we didn't say this, but I want to say this out loud before we sign off that you're inherently curious, even in your prep meeting, you had questions for us, Jack. And so while you're part of figuring it out and part of making it up is asking people questions. And DC always talks about that. You know, we know the smartest people are the people who ask the best questions. And I knew you'd be a great guest by the questions you asked in the first five minutes of our prep meeting, because you had great questions for us. So you're really good at that. And that's something for the Brand Nerds to take away too, because that's really important. Jack Mudd: I think in our, in our prep meeting, I asked about. Maybe what it was like to, to do marketing for Coca Cola because I know that my experience is, is so different, you know, and I'm fascinated. I've never had a different job. It's been my only job for, you know, my whole adult life. So I'm fascinated what, what it's like to work in a marketing team with, with a well defined corporate structure and processes. And, um, that's not something that I know. So. LT: And the folks at Coca Cola have a lot to learn from you, Jack, honestly, right now, they do. Jack Mudd: I appreciate it. I mean, what I appreciate that. What an honor. LT: Oh, we got to sign off here. This has been amazing, Jack. Thank you so much. And Brand Nerds, thanks for listening to this edition of Brands Beats and Bytes the executive producers are Jeff Shirley, Darryl "DC" Cobbin, and Larry Taman, Haley Cobbin, Jade Tate, and Tom DiOro. DC: The Podfather! LT: That is he, and if you do like this podcast, please subscribe and share. And for those on Apple Podcasts, if you are so inclined, we love those excellent reviews. We hope you enjoyed this podcast, and we look forward to next time, where we will have more insightful and enlightening talk about marketing.