Latest / Besties Do Verticals / Episode 15 - Interview with Declan Clifford
Transcript
- Aleta: Hello and welcome to Besties Do Verticals with your besties, Alita and Lucy. And today we have a special guest. Hi, I'm Alita. Lucy: And I'm Lucy. Declan: And I'm Declan. Nowed it. Aleta: As we have mentioned before, the aim of our podcast is to promote and support queer verticals, actors, and all the other creatives that go into producing the projects we love. We are so thrilled to have our third interview guest with us today. Lucy: Yes, as Alita said, we have a very special guest here on Besties, Declan Clifford. Woo-hoo! Thank you again, Declan, for joining us. Declan Clifford is a well-known vertical actor who has done at least 45 verticals. Am I correct? Declan: Think you're correct. I think we're going up fifties. ⁓ Fifty Lucy: ⁓ boy. Is it over the last two years? Declan: It's been nearly three years. It's I started I did my audition for my first vertical in August twenty twenty three. ⁓ Which I almost turned because I thought I was being scammed, but we can Lucy: ⁓ my Declan: get into that. ⁓ Lucy: We have to get into that. Okay. That will be the first question. ⁓ He has been in some of the beloved BLs of our fandom. Water boy, stable boy, pool boy, and bound to my Declan: Yeah. Lucy: hot rival. ⁓ Aleta: Mm. Lucy: I do like to call him the BL sweetheart. Would you like to yourself, Declan? Declan: ⁓ I don't know how I can top that, but I w ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha Declan: I would definitely try. ⁓ I'm I'm Declan. ⁓ yeah, I I've been doing verticals ⁓ for three now and it has been the most incredible ⁓ ride and because ⁓ I've got connect with people all around the world. I came to the US from Australia, I did my first vertical in ⁓ Melbourne. ⁓ know, had been acting for ⁓ a year a half by the time that I booked my first vertical. And so ⁓ I ⁓ just able to have like this incredible experience. And get acting training and develop, you know, my craft. And yeah, I'm from Tasmania, Australia. I grew up, I did a law degree. I was a lawyer before I was an actor. I live in LA now. ⁓ I'm married to another vertical actor, Riley Nottingham. what else can I say about myself? ⁓ I am a dark romance ⁓ Lucy: Ha ha Declan: lover like everyone else, ⁓ and ⁓ I live for good TV show or book. and a nice cup of coffee. I think those are the essential things about me. I don't know if there's anything else interesting about my personality. Aleta: Hm. Lucy: I love your personality. Your personality is my personality. ⁓ Yes. ⁓ I ⁓ caught on pretty quickly you dark That is very specific. Declan: spirits. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. The darker the better. Aleta: Ha ha. Lucy: I am I am telling you, Declan, you have to read Zodiac Academy. You you and I have Alita on it too, but we got busy doing all of this, so. Aleta: Ha ha. Declan: Yes, I do. Aleta: Yeah, I read like what, six books and then it was like this all broke loose and now there's no time to read. ⁓ days we are. ⁓ Declan: Yeah. You're like hanging on by a thread. ⁓ Lucy: It's our own fault though, so no one to blame but ourselves. That's right. I like it, I like it. I before we do this exciting little icebreaker I had planned, I cannot get out of my head the scam. Could you tell me about the scam bef because it'll just be in my head this whole time. Declan: Doing it for the good of the community. Yes. Yeah, okay, so in Australia, if you're an actor in Australia, there is one site that you can use to apply for independent jobs. And there's like a lot of short films on there, there's some feature films, very r like rare ⁓ you could also do some theatre gigs there on there. But anyway this thing I saw this thing co pop up for like a werewolf fantasy and I was like that sounds really cool, but the pay rate was quite high compared to what you would get from a short film or, you know, unpaid theatre gig. Anyway, I applied and then they were like sent all these instructions these really complicated instructions for like where to meet for these auditions in this like building and there were all these codes and I was like, No, this I I'm clearly going to be murdered. Like they're clearly murdering people. And I was like, should I report this listing? Like this Crazy count. So I up like declining the audition. I like, no, thank you. ⁓ And then found me on Facebook and they were like, our director really wants to see you. They were the first person ⁓ your profile the first person they shortlisted. And I was like, ⁓ They're like, you go on Zoom? And I like, Okay, I can zoom 'cause like no one's gonna murder me from the comfort of Zoom. And it it you know, it was a fully fledged ⁓ vertical. I just never heard of them and it was with the director and the producer, it was for short max. ⁓ and they had me read for both the alpha and the beta character. Good lord. They had me ⁓ I said to them, I was like, I'm not the alpha There's no way And they're like, please we wanna see you read for it. I was like, ⁓ here we go, okay. ⁓ And ⁓ afterwards their faces, they were just like And I was like, This is going so well, so well And they're like, Okay, ⁓ please read for the other character ⁓ and then they're like, much better ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: And that's how I got cast as Daniel, the loyal beta of the Alpha King in my personal Lycan King. And we that was my first vertical, and I believe the only vertical that has ended in a thr what it isn't even a thruple. It's like a polyamorous marriage. We all got married to her in the end. The three the guys got married to her in end. Aleta: Lucy is gonna track this down as soon as we're done. Lucy: How did I not realize? Declan: Yeah. And I was the one she had the kid with. Don't know how that works, but okay. Lucy: Did you say it's on short max? Declan: It's unsure You know what? It's probably 'cause it's been so long, it's probably like released onto the ether of YouTube somewhere. Not sure. So ⁓ Lucy: You don't even know Declan. Like that is my jam. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Declan: Yeah. The storyline quite cool. It was the three guys the they and they represented different things. Like the Alpha was like heat and passion and power. And then there was the rogue who was like kind of the same vibe, but maybe more slightly emotionally understanding. And then my character was like the emotionally safe, loyal one. ⁓ And the i she kinda has the thing with all three of us, but then in the end she gets married to to all of us and we have a wedding and we've all got wedding rings and we each had like a a wedding ring that was like a different colour that symbolized our character. It was like s like Sailor Moon, Sailor Venus vibes, like ⁓ Aleta: Yeah. Lucy: So okay, I have feelings. My brain, like the podcast is already derailed, but that's okay. Okay, so that's I can't I have to talk about this for a minute. Okay. So that's Declan: ⁓ sorry, I said you were to overdrive. Yeah. Aleta: Yeah. Focus. Declan: Yeah. Lucy: called reverse harem. ⁓ And yes, and ⁓ I am a okay, so before verticals. ⁓ Declan: That's wrong. Yes. Please tell me what. Lucy: I spent like 10 years in the indie book community just eating that crap up. And it is, I I won't lie, it's it's ⁓ smuddy trash, but is ⁓ so good because I and and I don't think there's enough of that in verticals, so kudos to you that that was your very first one. And haven't seen it and I'm and I'm going to ⁓ after this interview. Declan: Yeah. I loved I Aleta: Ha ha. Declan: loved that one and like I think it's a cool concept, like because you it yeah, I'll let you watch it. Tell me what you think after you watched it. I loved it. ⁓ Lucy: ⁓ I will. I will watch this. This is great. Declan: Yeah. Lucy: Okay, well you just you made my day. You made day. And I feel bad because I think you might have said something like this at once upon a time. But I'm mad at myself because I'm like how Declan: I I spout so much stuff. It don't pay attention to me. Lucy: Okay, well two things before we get into the meat of everything. I hemmed and hawed about this. I just kind of wanted to show you since it's you. I did kind of get talked into, I wasn't sure to do it, but I I am wearing the Tristan I know the Tristan Declan like little Declan: ⁓ yes! ⁓ that makes me so happy. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: I'm so happy Lucy: You have no Declan: you got it. Cause you were like from the start, you were like so excited about this vertical. You were like hump like pumping it up so much, like you were you were there Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: in the comments, so thank you. ⁓ Lucy: Bound to my hot rival, in my opinion, is ⁓ I'm gonna hurt a lot of people here, but Bound to My Hot Rival to me is the best BL vertical. ⁓ yeah, so okay, okay, here here's the thing. So Declan: Okay. ⁓ Greg, Evan, calm down. It's okay. They're just sharpening knives over there. Okay. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha Lucy: I know. ⁓ So okay. I know, ⁓ know, ⁓ okay. ⁓ Aleta: Traitor. Lucy: So where I where I have it is straight until he kissed me, I have it equal to bound to my hot rival. You know, because you're the first that you fall in love with, it's really hard, right? So straight until he kissed me is what really pulled me in. So once you that's really hard to give up, right? So I think and bound is so different. That's right, dang it. That's right. I like your thinking. Declan: Mm. White shoes, you can have them both. But I I'm so happy that you you got it. ⁓ I think that's so cool that ⁓ like Cosmic and Pops is doing things like that the giveaways and yeah and ⁓ creating that memorabilia of the show. ⁓ I I truly we could do the same with water boy pads. ⁓ Like ⁓ Aleta: ⁓ Lucy: People would freak. You have a lot of fans. Like there would be massive fights to get to some of that. Declan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lucy: Like anything. So ⁓ yeah, I think it was really cool Cosmic did ⁓ so shout out to them for sure. ⁓ But I figured if there was ever a time to wear it, it's gonna be in like a display. Declan: Mm-hmm. Lucy: I guess I'm gonna have to start a fan girls display now. So Declan: Yeah. No, tonight's the night. Wear where the wear Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: the Volkov necklace. ⁓ Lucy: There you go. Okay, well, we are going to get into an icebreaker for you, but I think we already kinda broke some ice, but we'll we'll do it anyway. Yes. So it's a would you rather game. Declan: Mm-hmm. Love it. Lucy: So I have questions. You you haven't seen these questions, so this will be, yeah. Alita, do you want to play as well and I'll ask the questions? Declan: ⁓ yeah. Aleta: Sure. Lucy: Okay, let's do it. Declan: Yeah. Lucy: Alright, guys, we'll start with Declan and then Alita. Would you rather ⁓ cuddle a koala or pal around with a panda? Declan: Peta. Lucy: What about you, Alita? Aleta: Panda. Have you seen that video of the koala and the Christmas tree? And it's like Yeah, no. ⁓ Declan: Yeah, qualities go crazy. I don't trust them. Yeah, no, I don't trust them. Lucy: ⁓ my goodness, I was gonna say cuddle a koala, but now I don't want to. ⁓ my how about a sedated koala? Aleta: Not Cud Lee. Declan: No. No. No, thank you. I barely escaped with my life from Australia. Lucy: Declan's face this is priceless. He's like, I know. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: ⁓ my goodness. Okay, I'm I'm now deviating again. But is it true that you guys have like kangaroos that punch people and spiders? ⁓ Declan: I've never seen a correct kangaroo punch someone. I think like y so a kangaroo you will see them just out a and about, like not in the city and stuff, but like if you're driving on the highway or if you're in kind of like a country area. They won't attack you unless you get really close to them and they're feeling protective over their babies. So like any animal really. We do get big spiders, but again that's kinda like outskirts. Like You know, not like when you're in the city, but unfortunately if you live in a place that has a lot of trees, huntsman spiders are a problem. And if any of you are wants to look up a huntsman spider, ⁓ just one of those on my bed. ⁓ I lived Aleta: ⁓ we've s Mm. Declan: with my friend, ⁓ my girl my best friend, she's girl, and ⁓ she had a beautiful pink, ⁓ fuzzy nightgown, and went to put on her nightgown and there was a big huntsman spider, and huntsmans move very fast, and they're probably size of your hand, probably. Yeah. Aleta: No thanks. No. Lucy: No decl Declan: So you have to hair you have to hairspray them, it stops them moving, ⁓ and then you get them out. ⁓ Lucy: I that sounds so big you would be afraid to squash them because they would make crunchy sounds. Declan: Yes, yeah. I'm yeah. I don't know how I dealt with that actually, 'cause I'm deathly afraid of spiders. Lucy: ⁓ my gosh, you were like you were like in your own hell. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: exactly. Lucy: Guys. Aleta: My husband picks them up and carries them out of the house. I'm like but we don't have that big like we have wolf spiders that are like that. Declan: ⁓ that sounds like that would be nasty. Aleta: Ye I'm just if it was me they would just be but He well, he's the one who's not terrified, let's put it Declan: Your husband's the caring soul. I love it. Aleta: that way. ⁓ Lucy: Yeah, ⁓ turn into like Xena. I Declan: Yeah. Lucy: get upset. Well, because I I was married, my ex also did take out the spiders ⁓ ⁓ Aleta: Yeah. Lucy: I get really weird and I'm like, no, because I'm really scared of them. ⁓ And ⁓ for my birthday last year, my kid and ex, I'm now, ⁓ they ⁓ bought me one of those bug catchers too. So there's the one that like vacuums, it's like it's like a microscope, it's meant for kids. So you like suck up the vacuum and then it'll go in a little chamber and you can like flip the chamber and look and inspect your bug. And then I did get a one that's like really long and it has like a gripper and it will hold the bug gently, very gently, and then you can walk it out very far away from you because it's long. Yes. Declan: Uh-huh. ⁓ that's nice. ⁓ Lucy: And then just put it off my balcony. That's what I can do. I but here's the best part. I live on the third floor and I don't get a whole lot of ⁓ Because Mm. That's right. Declan: Okay, great. Shielded. This is this is good for apartments. ⁓ Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: Okay, I'm so sorry, Declan. We keep tan I it's my fault. Throwing his Declan: I love it. Go. ⁓ Lucy: Next one. ⁓ Would you rather have a ⁓ rewind ⁓ button or a pause button your life? Declan: Rewind. Lucy: Alita? Aleta: No, I don't think either, honestly, but I guess if you have to choose rewind, but I don't know. Lucy: I want a pause button because sometimes you just need to breathe. You just need to take a moment. Aleta: Mm. ⁓ okay. Lucy: You know, I I think as crappy as maybe things have happened in the past, they shape who we are. Declan: Hm, true, true. Lucy: You know? So Okay Declan, would you rather watch nothing but Hallmark Christmas movies or nothing but horror movies? Declan: Hallmark. My nervous system is too bit fragile for that. Lucy: I love it, Alita. Aleta: Same. I don't do any horror. No thank you. Nope. Declan: thanks. Lucy: Same Hallmark Christmas movies. I I like campy horror. So Jennifer's Body and like the Chucky movies. So anything that's hilarious and bloody. That's right. Those are okay. Those are safe. I know you'll like this one. Would you rather be turned by Stefan Salvatore or Damon Salvatore? Declan: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. They can have a laugh. Yes. Yeah. You know what, my opinion's changed. If you asked me if you asked me ten years ago, I would have said Damon, but I'm now Stefan. My tastes have matured. ⁓ Lucy: I am so proud of you because also same. Aleta: Ha ha. Declan: Yeah. Same. Yeah. Paul, if you're listening Lucy: Yeah. I used to it the Damon Show and that's what it was all about. I was like people would say vampi I was like, You mean the Damon Show? That's why I'm watching. ⁓ Declan: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean he is so compelling, but I'm just like, no, I'm ⁓ I'm be I I'd want a Stefan now. ⁓ Lucy: That's right. You've you've matured. What about you, Alita? Have you watched it? Declan: Yeah. Aleta: Nope. Lucy: Okay, that's okay. Don't worry about it. We've got other that's Aleta: I have not. Lucy: okay. ⁓ Would you rather be always stuck in traffic but find a perfect parking spot or never hit traffic but always take forever to You live in LA. Declan: I think that I would rather be stuck in traffic, honestly. Because I like like like listening to a podcast or ⁓ y talking on the phone. Like that's like my time to run lines or you know, I often look like a cra like if someone looked into my car sometimes when I'm running lines, because sometimes I will do it with feeling, you know, once more with feeling, ⁓ but I will just like be going crazy in my car sometimes. And especially if I'm like one of my processes is I will I like plug the script in and instead of like saying the lines, I will just say the first thought that comes off the back of whatever the other person is saying. So if it's like I'm pissed off or I'm cry like sometimes I just mean like crying in the cr car. And so ⁓ yeah, I mean ⁓ all all this to say I'd sometimes rather be traffic 'cause I productive in traffic. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha Lucy: I like it. What about you, Alita? Aleta: No. ⁓ I guess I guess traffic too. I almost never leave the house. It's not it's not because I you don't am scared of it or something, right? Like that's a valid reason. But just working from home, I don't get out enough. But ⁓ so traffic is not not we don't have traffic here actually. Like I mean not on the island where I live because it's like Declan: Yeah. Aleta: a fairly not a huge city. It's like twelve, fifteen minutes to anything. So unless you're driving like up the island, but anything that I would need is within fifteen minutes max of my house. So I guess for the traffic we have here I'd be fine. Not LA traffic though, from what I understand. Lucy: Fair. Declan: Mm-hmm. Lucy: I don't know what I would pick. I I want my gut says never hit traffic. But I hate parking. So I dri Declan: You'd have to be like going round in circles. ⁓ Aleta: Hm. Lucy: It's very stressful, so I guess I will say sitting in traffic. Yes. Okay, well hopefully you feel nice and broken in, Declan, and ready for questions. ⁓ I knew I was gonna love you on here. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: Think I think Roman did that. This is Podcast PJ. ⁓ Aleta: My gosh. Lucy: Well, we always say it's explicit. It's explicit podcast, so you can say whatever you want. Water Waterboy 2 had me dropping the F bomb the entire time. Aleta: ⁓ my god. Lucy: So I I ⁓ won't go that, but yeah, there was a lot of pain. You Declan: But well. Lucy: ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha ha ha. Declan: We're like, how much pain can we inflict on these people? Lucy: You did a good job. ⁓ Alrighty. ⁓ we getting into the meat and potatoes with Declan now. So Declan, we know you have been asked this many times, ⁓ but in there is someone new listening, ⁓ what made want to go into acting? Declan: I think it's it's a really funny thing because so I was acting as a kid and I loved it and I got bullied a lot in high school and naturally when that happens, the idea of putting yourself out there on a stage with k you know, kids at your school who are so awful to you that it it was just like terrifying. So I think my personality really changed a lot from about year eight. And I think unfortunately what that did is it shut me down so much that it shut me down from my own emotions and feelings and tapping into what I wanted to do and it made me feel very scared a lot of the time, scared d that I was gonna be judged, scared that I wasn't good enough, like and constantly to this day, that's like the underlying thought that I have to manage. It's always that like you you know that thought that you're not good enough, you can't do this. And so it just shut me off so much from what I wanted to to do. So it was like over time this nut had to be like cracked or like the ice had to melt. So where I think it first started was I did my law degree, I worked as a lawyer, I was in a commercial law firm, so I was placed in the dispute resolution team, so we were assisting on court cases, all that stuff. And I just all through my degree I never felt at home. There were people in my degree who would just love it and they were they you know so passionate and lit up. And I always just felt like such a dud because I was like dragging my ass to class. I was barely like getting through the readings and just felt like really lackluster. And I thought that was something wrong with me. I thought I'm pro like a procrastinator, I'm lazy. But I didn't really ⁓ make the connection that maybe, you know, this isn't something that you wanted to. Maybe you would be really lit up by something else. So At about I want to say, yeah, my f my I was about six months into this first year in a commercial law firm, and I just sort of stumbled upon a podcast. I'd had a really bad breakup. This guy I was like in love with, like, broke out up with me out of the blue, and I was like Googling stuff, and this podcast came up. And this podcast like was about like relationships and heartbreak and self-esteem, finding purpose, all this stuff, and it just like kind of unlocked. This thing in me of like, huh. And just that that was like the first chip in the ice. And then I started looking at different things. I started going, do I want to work in fashion? Do I I'm I just started going on a health kick and I was like, ⁓ it could be interesting to study nutrition. And then at the end of that first year, I ended up moving to Melbourne, and compared to where I was from in Tasmania, Melbourne is like polar opposite. It's full of people in the arts, people. ⁓ dress in beautiful things that are representative to them. There's no fear about you know looking a certain way. People just present as they are. It was my first experience being ⁓ in a city with a large queer community and a very active queer community, and it just like exploded open my brain. Then But I was still d trying different things at that time. I was sampling different things and then I got into like doing a bit of modelling and that was like ⁓ my first kind of on-camera work. And I still didn't really think about acting because in my mind at that time I was like acting is something that people in Hollywood do, like Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston, and I felt like they were a different class of human being. I just thought that was not available to me. I was like, I'm no way. then I met Riley. And Riley had been acting since he was twelve and he was telling me about that on our first date. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, I used to like want to be an actor and he put his hand on my arm and he was like, You could still be an actor. Like so sweet, so genuine. And I was like, No, what like I couldn't do that. Literally took me another couple of years from that first date to get into an acting class. He just kept saying to me, I think you really enjoy an acting class, like you should go And I was like, I was so nervous, but I really if I look back, it was because I just had so much self doubt and I didn't know at that time that I would absolutely fall in love with it. Went to that sorry, this is a very long winded response, but ⁓ Lucy: No, please. Declan: I just fell in love in that acting class because ⁓ I had always like really escaped into characters through all those experiences. That was my constant. I loved just like I would get engrossed in these stories and in my own world and in my mind I would pretend that I was these characters and then to like go to the class and it to be an outlet of not only like your own experiences and translating them into art but living a hundred different lives in one and creating something that's meaningful to someone and even if it's just something that helps someone escape the pressures of their life for an hour and a half, it might provide context on a situation for them. They might see themselves in a character. That is just like such a joyous thing to do. And in some weird ways you like learn things from each of your characters. And it's just Like I just fell in love with that idea of like I can travel to places in my mind that I might never go. I can have have situations and experiences every day that are so different, and then when you actually start getting onto a set and you realize like you're all this little community and family making this thing, it's just like so wonderful, and it's like the the best job in the world. Of course, there are the the downsides of it which Which are you know well known, which are you know the instability of it, a changing industry, a very competitive industry, all those things. But it's like I the way I describe it, my life felt like super grey before, but now I feel like every spectrum of it. I feel like intense high and intense low, which is opening me up more as a person, and that's why I love it, and that's like how I yeah, first got into it, I guess. So it all started with. I guess a conversation on a first date, and it just the the nut had to be cracked. I'm a I'm a stubborn being sometimes. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: Damn Jacqueline, you're making me cry. Like Declan: ⁓ yes. ⁓ Lucy: I'm all like, don't tear up. Don't tear up. I I love ⁓ Riley too. Just so like Riley such a delight. I've watched Met the The Met Metrosexual and some of his other work, and ⁓ he's just so bright and and animated and you and him are just amazing. So to just hear ⁓ Declan: ⁓ gosh. Lucy: That he's just the catalyst. Declan: Yeah, truly. I wouldn't I would not be here without him because he like even w when I was leaving my government job, he was like, Leave. Quit. I don't care. I will support both of us. You just put yourself through acting classes, you go take as many unpaid 'cause so much of your first year as an ac like actor, a lot of people go through a conservatory. I had to like kind of mismatch different stuff together. So I learned a lot from doing like I did like 20 unpaid short films, I did unpaid theatre, I just did everything to get all this experience and just throw myself into it so scared and he was just like, keep going, keep going. And also like I was terrible at the start. Like I was so disconnected from my body and my self that I look back at those self-tapes. I I shouldn't be mean to myself like that, but is I had so much to learn. And he never once was like, give up or, you know, I just would not be here if I didn't have his support 1000%. Lucy: I'm so much more in love with Riley now. You Aleta: Hmm? Lucy: ⁓ you guys are the best. ⁓ my gosh. Declan: just ⁓ a sweet A. Lucy: Okay, so what have been the primary differences in living in Australia? And I I think it was Tasmania was w where you lived, okay, and Melbourne, versus LA. Declan: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know what, it's a lot ⁓ it's a lot ⁓ more alike than people think. ⁓ particularly Melbourne and LA. the way I describe LA is your experience of LA is gonna be so different depending where in LA you are and each pocket of it has a very different feel to me. So you can kind of find your community and vibe depending on which pocket of LA you live. So it is a really similar and I think Australia i is kind of a blend of our English roots, our UK roots and American culture because we're kind of raised with American T V, a lot of American products, but we've got that English influence as well, which ⁓ makes us more, I think, reserved in some ways, maybe a bit more shy sometimes as well. But I think the things that are probably different in LA the film industry and TV it's like a it's like a real flourishing industry where it's just it's a smaller pocket in Australia by virtue of our population. In Melbourne where I was from there was a thriving indie theatre scene, so I did a lot of indie theatre which was amazing. but in terms of differences, like there's not a lot. Like I haven't felt homesick at all because I feel like I feel like I'm still there in a lot of weird ways. It it's it's strange, it's just like apart from my family, it feels like I'm still in Melbourne. It's just sunnier. I don't know what that would say. Aleta: Ha ha Lucy: Ha ha ha ha ha! Declan: So I I don't feel totally different. Like Australia is just like a smaller country, ⁓ smaller population. So other than that, I yeah, it's it's weird. I really expected to feel super homesick and be like culture shock, but from day one I've been like, I love it. I love it. ⁓ Aleta: Well that's good. That makes life a lot easier. Declan: It does, truly. Lucy: Very cool. Aleta: Okay, so what do you think that verticals do really well that traditional film and TV do not, if anything? Declan: I think what the verticals tapped into was that return to entertainment that's really fun. I think that it's yeah, in a lot of ways they kinda remind me of those two thousands rom coms, That are sweet and silly and fun. And so I just feel like it's a real return to that style of entertainment that a lot of people are missing. Because, you know, you think about like the CW shows and stuff, a lot of those shows kinda aren't being made in the same way. You think of like Vampire Daries, Gossip Girl, Teen Wolf. Like I I I might be wrong, but I haven't seen a show like that in a long time. And I think it's tapping into that. that people really enjoy. I think it's tapping into that part of our brain that's like, I need to know what happens next, with each cliffhanger. And i I it's obviously capitalizing as well on the fact that we are using our phones more. the thing I like about verticals as well is with the actors a lot of these like Actors are all amazing actors, but we were previously working other jobs, ⁓ not able to practice our craft on a full time basis. Verticals suddenly created like a middle class for the actor where so many people were able to work, they were able to connect with crews, people from you know all over the world, and then suddenly our work was being viewed. I mean, prior to verticals, I I would do theatre shows with sometimes there would be fifty people in the audience, sometimes there would be ten, sometimes there'd be a hundred and fifty. But then suddenly to be able to connect with so many viewers and people who are so passionate about it. Because usually most people just like leave after the show, you know, they get their and they're bye, you know, you you might wait in the foyer for some chats, but to have such direct audience engagement, so I think like vertical actors are a lot more engaged with the viewers than maybe traditional film and TV as well because it's a whole new thing for us too. And we like the kind of symbiotic nature of it where we can like hear what you all want to see and and try and bring that as much as possible. And I feel that verticals are very collaborative sometimes as well. Like you you can have a lot of influence over your character and story and there's more collaboration than I imagine there would be on a huge big set. So like for Bound to My Rival, Tristan and I really got in the weeds with our director, Amanda, who had also been involved in the writing of it, w along with drama pops. And so we had many like conversations and and meetings with Amanda about the script and how we wanted this to look and then even on the day we would be collaborating and changing things on the day whereas I just I'm it might happen on a a huge big sag set, but I I don't know if it would happen in that same way where we're like, about this So that's Yes. It ⁓ maybe. ⁓ Aleta: It might happen for the big names more, right? Yeah. But you guys are the big names in verticals, right? So Declan: Yeah. Aleta: Why I think this has already been answered, but why do you think verticals are taking off the way that they are? I think you kinda just Declan: Yeah, I think it I think it is. It's just like they're they're tapping into what people wanna see. They're tapping into that captivating you know, cliffhanger aspect and yeah, we're all on our phone. So it's like, what is this? ⁓ Lucy: ⁓ Too true. Aleta: Yeah, we're all drawn in by the ads and then but yeah. Exactly. Lucy: But after the ads, it's the actors. Declan: Yes. ⁓ And there's truly fantastic actors in these as well. ⁓ that's one thing I feel like doesn't get enough credit. ⁓ think sometimes people will make comments about ⁓ ⁓ shows. ⁓ ⁓ the thing is i ⁓ have to understand how much genre, lighting, editing all plays into a performance. ⁓ And ⁓ I I truly think these people are so talented and I'm so glad people are getting the chance to work and a platform to connect with people. Lucy: Absolutely. Well, yeah, a lot of fans we just follow once once we kind of get hooked, we just follow the actor. So you have a lot of people, I think, who are just like, what's Declan doing? Okay, we're watching that. I don't typically watch ⁓ very many straight verticals, but if you're in one, I'll probably watch one. Declan: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, sorry. Lucy: Alrighty, so I remember at one point and you kind of already brought this up, you were a nutritionist. Is this correct? Declan: Yeah, I ended up doing like as part of that discovery ⁓ phase of my life, I ended up doing studies in nutrition, and then I had a nutrition practice and ⁓ I've like lived a million lives in one. And that was great because that was like the first time ⁓ really talking to people one-on-one and meeting people from all different walks of life. ⁓ And I how that came about was because ⁓ the the legal job I was in, people were like battering themselves around in this job. And I was getting battered around too, like with health stuff. So I I loved that and th that's still so much of like how I try to take care of myself with set now and 'cause I know how much it affects my mental health when I'm like getting some sunlight and at least doing a a modicum of exercise and trying to eat eat well. So I I've like subsumed all that into c what I'm currently doing now. But yeah, it's all been just a wild rol coaster of Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: experiences careers and it goes to show that you never know where something's gonna lead you. ⁓ Lucy: Right. We should go to yours, Alita. Yeah. Aleta: Okay. ⁓ asked Andrew this. I don't know whether you'll have a different answer, but ⁓ you walk us through your typical self tape routine? Is there a setup that you swear by? Declan: Ooh, yes. I when I get the sides, I like to just like read through them, get an idea of who this person is, and kinda as I alluded to before, I think it's all about for me working out like what this character is thinking and feeling at this time, ⁓ what changes do they go through over the course of it, what's their relationship to the other person. I do I'm a big writer. So I can't I can't just like look at it. I need to like write down lots of little different things on it. And pretty quickly I get this like idea of who they are. And then personally for me, I I think your first twenty seconds are really important of your tape. Because they're seeing so many tapes that to make that first twenty seconds a strong opening with a strong intention has always been my Yeah. thought process with it. So, ⁓ like even with Bound to my rival, my tape like started with like a boxing maneuver. And I just like really wanted to get into it with energy really fast. And I think that's like and I did multiple takes of that. And the ones where I didn't it felt flat and it just it wasn't as captivating because y you do really have to understand that they're watching so many and and how you do stand out. so that and then I think the most important with us thing with a self tape is once you've sent it off, know that that's enough and that honestly the post self tape ritual is probably the more important thing because especially if you are really excited about a role or you really care, you have to like know that you've done your best, release it and trust that what is meant for you will come because you'll drive yourself crazy if you're like refreshing the ⁓ emails. So I think that's really important too and like going and having fun and switching off the laptop and going and like living your life. I think your life outside of acting is as important as the work itself. So yeah. And obviously lighting and all that stuff helps, all the all the technical elements. one thing I learnt from watching a lot of self-tapes actually for another project, costume. Costume, costume, costume. You don't think it's gonna be as important as it is, but I saw the a range of self tapes for this project, and some people really dressed to the brief. Not that they provide you a brief, but they had given an idea of who this person was, and they were like a real working class person, and I saw tapes where people were coming in in business shirts and suits, and they were amazing, but it completely took me out of like the character. So I would just say like always just like for any actors who might be listening, like read the brief of who this person is and what they might wear because it does surprisingly like take you out of it, if yeah. Lucy: We're learning. ⁓ my gosh, I love this. Yes. Declan: ⁓ Dropping the cultate law. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Do you want to jump to your next one? Lucy: You don't wanna ask him about stress? I wanna know how he copes with stress. Aleta: Well, I think he's already covered stress, but okay. Lucy: I wanna know how Declan handles stress. Aleta: How do you cope with stress? ⁓ Declan: How do I cope? Does it look like I'm coping? Lucy: Ha ha ha ha. ⁓ Aleta: We need help. Declan: Truly. I we are, don't we all. ⁓ I I a couple of things that ⁓ have r really helped me. ⁓ The first I think that is probably the most helpful ⁓ is ⁓ can can control what you can control. ⁓ And there are only certain things that you in your power can do. So like whenever I feel stressed, I will like literally sit down with a j again, big writer. If I'm puzzling out my head, boop, if I'm but if I write it down, I feel better. So I will literally write down what I personally, me Declan, can do about this situation, what I cannot, and I will only try and focus on that. obviously talking it out with people is gonna be really really really helpful. if I get really stressed and overwhelmed, devices go off and I just like go out and try and like walk, just listen, listen to like the sounds around me, get back into my body. the a therapist I was seeing told me about like what's like something you can hear and something you can feel, like name three things you can feel, what you can hear, and what you can see to bring you back into your body. I do meditate, but I often fall asleep. ⁓ So I'm not if it's like the meditation that's me or the micro. ⁓ Aleta: The nap. Declan: But ⁓ That you you guys know I'm always going to the movies. That's like my that's my stress release, like seeing Riley at the drink fountain and he'll like look so excited as he gets like multiple different sodas into his drink. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: He recently discovered that the AMC has like a butter machine thing and that makes me really happy seeing him like ⁓ experiment with Aleta: Yeah. Declan: ⁓ I don't know. That that makes me personally very happy and less stressed. He's like my little puppy. ⁓ Aleta: Aww. Lucy: I love hearing the Riley stories. These are Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: great. ⁓ That is awesome. Okay, is there a piece of acting advice you've that is stuck with you? And would you I guess there's a two parter here. What advice would you give to aspiring actors? Declan: Gosh I've received so many good ones over the years. It's just so difficult to yeah, say what but like I think fundamentally the the acting is all about listening and letting something land in you. And receiving what the other and that's something that I've had to learn through my own work because if you're in your head and you're, God, am I doing well enough? Am I, you know, ⁓ God, how's this coming across? You're not there with the other person. And that is actually what is most magnetic on screen is if you are truly listening and receiving what the other person's giving you, you're not doing a pre-planned thing, you're letting that person wash over you. That is acting because it's the art of like human. human behavior and as humans we listen, we take things in and we have a reaction, whether it's we're super emotional or we're stunned and we're silent. Like so that that was the piece of acting advice that is often given is like acting is reacting, it's listening, receiving, ⁓ and it's having you have thoughts as a person all the time. You're having thoughts that just run through your mind all the time. So it's it's no different for your character. Your character has thoughts about everything. They have an opinion on absolutely everything. What you know, what they like to wear, what what politicians they support, what movies they like. And so if you build out your character's world as well and know them and how they would think and feel about different stuff, that helps you build the person. ⁓ but it all comes back to the listening and reacting. I would also say for anyone who's an aspiring actor, you just have to give yourself the right to play. And you have to give yourself the right to do something if you care about it. Because I think so much with creative careers, there can be so much internalized doubt and fear that can really stand in your way. But I would say to anyone that's listening that wants to do something creative, the fact that you want to do it, that's enough. Follow that instinct. Because you have no idea where that takes you and you don't have to listen to anyone, what anyone's saying about, you know, you know, it's too late or whatever. If you want to do something, that's enough. And whatever form that takes for you, I think it's you can never lose out by following instinct that feels right to you. is is my advice. So give yourself the right to play. ⁓ Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: Very cool. Aleta: My apologies there, my kid was making noise, so I was like messaging him to be quiet. Declan: I just think. Aleta: So we find it so interesting how different actors approach character development in order to bring the role to life. How do you go about preparing for a role? Declan: Yeah, I love just tons of notes, tons of I like to think about what they'll listen to, like what music they'll listen to, what shows they like, what they would wear. Sometimes I've had a very different interpretation of a character than what has ended up on screen because the, you know, director or ⁓ creative team wanted to go in a very specific direction. But Yeah, I I like to ask all of those questions. I like to think about how they relate to everyone in the script, what they think about themselves. I like to think about like what their morning routine would be. I like to like ⁓ but that's the fun part of acting for me. And so I like to to know all that and then as I'm sort of like going through the script, I'll kind of mine the script for information about you know, how to what do they think about themselves? What are they saying about themselves? What are they saying about the other people? And it helps me build that person and also like what their goals are and like what they're chasing. so for example, I think with Like with if I use the example of Shane, he's he changed a lot through that script because at the start of the thing at the the the movie I like love wasn't on his radar. Falling in love and being open to love wasn't part of the his focus. And so that was a really fun one to play because he was like constantly learning through that whole thing and opening himself up. Whereas like a very self-possessed character like Evan, ⁓ in state Boy, very clear like I'm gonna get out of here, I'm gonna go to Paris, I'm gonna meet the man of my dreams of Paris, am be a famous chef, and that is how it's gonna be. like, it's it's like the fun little differences, and you you know that person, like Evan's ⁓ you know, vision board would be Paris chef, Parisian, beautiful man, sophisticated life, sophisticated, beautiful apartment. ⁓ he would have like the curated playlist and the curated wardrobe, whereas Shea. is like I just want to like have enough money to run this gym for Jacks. I want a simple life. He wouldn't even have a phone probably probably be a flip ⁓ and anything that is like basic for training. ⁓ So it's just yeah. I like think about all that. ⁓ Aleta: Mm-hmm. Love that. Lucy: You are such a creative. Like you like I like just listening to you it's so much it's to me, correct me if I'm wrong, it just seems so much more than just acting. Like you are so about embodying like the characters and the story. And I I I love you describing the vision board and I love you talking about my two favorite Declan Declan: Mm. Yeah. Lucy: verticals, because they're my two favorite. ⁓ Declan: I had to I had to wrap the characters for you. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: That's right. ⁓ speaking of those ⁓ ⁓ some of the BTS that we kinda know about, I know occasionally there's been opportunities to improv. So how ⁓ those come up? I've always been curious because I've heard this from other BL any well, just any vertical actor, ⁓ I've heard them talk about it. Declan: Yes. Lucy: Is is it during a take, is it the director saying, Go play? Or is it you just are feeling it like a gut instinct in the moment and you're like, I'm just gonna do this and see what happens. ⁓ Declan: Yeah, it's usually the gut instinct. It's usually the gut instinct and it either falls flat. ⁓ I don't think like we we like go too far off the beaten path. But it might be just like you know, s if something goes wrong or someone's dropped a line, then you just like can can really go crazy. But Yeah, just like trying stuff and seeing what works in there if something feels more natural, more often than not, they're like, Love it. I I don't think there has been an experience where a director has been like So ⁓ Aleta: Ha ⁓ Lucy: Ha ha Declan: they they do they do take it and run with it. So ⁓ but there's never sometimes JP has said, Let's do a fuck it take. ⁓ let's let's do a ⁓ a something take. Aleta: ⁓ It's all good. ⁓ Lucy: You can drop the F bomb on here. It's okay. Declan: A a deep take. And Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: let's see what because we've we've got the time, which is rare that we have the time. But I I remember few instances like that where like let's just see what what happens and ⁓ throw caution to the wind. ⁓ And Amanda was very much like as well. ⁓ And I'm to think I'm just trying to think of any I feel like the the villain characters as well tend to improv a lot. And that's good, especially if they're like a comedic villain, like a Maya. Like Maya, you know, Tori got to improv a lot. 'Cause it's it's so great, like she can just keep going, like, you know? ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha. Lucy: I'm glad ⁓ does work out though. ⁓ because I I've heard you don't always get to do so many takes. But immediately my brain went to what was Skye thinking when he was like, I just can't quit you, but Declan: Yeah, yeah. Lucy: you know, when did Aleta: ⁓ Lucy: it's stable boy. I was we were all like they put that in, ⁓ but it was good. Like we we usually we get worried, you know, if there's quoting from a big movie. But I liked it in Bound and I liked it in Stableboy. Declan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm well I'm glad. I'm glad. I mean they they pulled it off. Kudos to them. Lucy: They did. Declan: Yeah, mean we ⁓ we're we're we're aware of that and and hope it's seen in the of like utmost respect to those, ⁓ you know, amazing pieces of media. ⁓ so hopefully it is seen that way. Aleta: Mm. All right. So if you could choose any film, any film ever, which one would you most like to have which one would you most like to have been in and what role? Declan: What wrong? ⁓ a Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: good question. Any film ever that I want to have been in and want wrong. This is such a good question. Okay, Lord of the Rings Legolas. Aleta: ⁓ Declan: That that's just coming to my mind, so I'm just gonna go there. ⁓ Aleta: Love it. Lucy: You would have been an amazing Legolas. I love Lord of the Rings. Aleta: Whi with the blonde wig or no? Declan: Of course, I want a blonde wig. I I would love a blonde wig. Straighten it every Lucy: Platinum blonde. We know that you've been writing some scripts with your husband Riley. Can you talk about any of those projects and what your hopes are for them? Declan: day. ⁓ I mean it's always the hope to to get something made. Riley is like an amazing writer. as well and he he has like been involved in like writing horror stuff before and the the script that he wrote is like a a horror queer piece and then the script that I wrote and he had a lot of input on as well is like a political queer romance that we adapted from a like TV miniseries into a vertical. So we're trying different formats with it to see how we can possibly get things made. Like as you know it's such a long process. I remember when he filmed the pilot of Metrosexual in God, I wanna say it was 2018. That we had just met I wanna say. and th it took like another full year for the full series to to get up and be made, and then I think another full year for the for season two. So these things take a lot of time and persistence, but we're not giving up with them. We're like we really believe in the ideas and I think that, you know, with everything that's happening in the world right now, you just have to keep on creating. To keep on creating and that's all you can do is keep putting your creations out there and when you you go from and it's such like a joyous experience too, so we're we're we're hopeful, we're sending it out there. Lucy: Very cool. Aleta: Well, I guess this this again, you've already sort of said maybe. We have heard you say many times that you'd love to be in a fantasy vertical. Is there a particular subgenre of fantasy that you would most want to do? Declan: What's that? Mm-hmm. I would love to do something like one of the things like I'm toying around riding right now is like I love this idea of like ⁓ like a royal like royal Prince who discovers he has powers, but all like the magic wielders of his family have like died in some epic battle, so they have to get someone from across the you know, across the lands, and he's like this tall, smouldering person, but he also has a secret relationship with like maybe his like Kingsguard or whatever. And so there's like a a love. ⁓ So I love something with like powers and magic and ⁓ Yeah, love triangles. That's that's like the the loose idea for a vertical that I would love. ⁓ I just want to between two ⁓ two two ⁓ two ⁓ Lucy: Let's let's change the wording Declan. We don't want to say love triangle. We wanna say why choose? Why choose? Declan: White choice. Exactly. White juice. Yes. Aleta: Anyway. Lucy: You could be in a thruple. ⁓ Declan: Mm-hmm. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. ⁓ Lucy: I am very excited to ask this one. ⁓ my goodness. Okay. If someone told you like today, okay, Declan, we want to put the top five BL boys together. So our top five BL boys. I know there's many BL boys, but Alita and I have our favorites, okay? ⁓ Declan: Yeah. Aleta: Mm. Lucy: so that's you, Andrew, Greg, Evan, and Skye. And they said, Hey Declan, I'd like all five of you to be in a vertical together and we'll take care of everything. You but you have to create the story. What would that story be with all five of ⁓ Declan: Okay. Lucy: Ha ha ha Declan: ⁓ huh. ⁓ That's a Lucy: Ha ha ha. ⁓ Declan: I know that there's a movement to move out of like the YA area, but I do think with Five I love shows where it's like ensemble college academia vibes because it's fun because you're all under the same roof. But Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: I stumped him, I'm sorry. I'm excited for your answer. Declan: You have You have something. Elite Gossip Girl ⁓ be really, really Aleta: Mm. Declan: fun. Yeah, that's that's what I'm like young Royals could be really, really fun. I don't know. I that would be a really fun way to mix around different characters. ⁓ otherwise ⁓ something like Yeah, you'd have to like 'Cause you'd want us to all be interacting in some way. I mean, I know you're not a horror fan, but the other thing that I could potentially see working is like some, you know, thriller knives out situation. It could be really fun. ⁓ Lucy: Watch it for you guys. Declan: I think. Lucy: ⁓ I think, Aleta: Yeah. Lucy: I think ⁓ Faith, Faith she has a horror one coming out, and I looked at the trailer and I was like, this looks terrifying. I was like, I'll brave it for her because I love her. Yeah, Aleta: Mm. Lucy: I'll brave it for Faith. heard people talk about ⁓ a remake of Queer as Folk, and I'm sure you've heard me maybe say this in the comments, but I'm Declan: Yeah. Lucy: kinda stuck on that. I I do think you all are the age range for it. And it was it was my that that was mine. Like my entry, right? Like the verticals, the queer verticals are a lot of entry and and something special into feeling comfortable with who they are and and discovering themselves, like what you're a part of right now. But for me, because I'm older, back in two thousand I when that came out that was mine. And it was very special. So Declan: That was the show. I've gotta watch this show. I feel like it's a criminal offense that I haven't watched this show. Lucy: You have not watched Declan ⁓ Aleta: You haven't watched them? Declan: Do I need to close the laptop now and start? Aleta: Maybe after. Lucy: What whatever I need to do, like I think it's on Paramount Plus. I will pay for your Paramount Plus. Like when you're rap when you have a lull, you just let me know. ⁓ Very cool. Yeah. I there it's beyond special. It is beyond special. It was the only thing like it of time. They it was it was ⁓ Declan: Mm-hmm. Right. Dundee. We shake on it. Lucy: very heated rivalry in the sense of they let it all hang out. It was a showtime show. So I mean you didn't really have anything held back. Yeah, and it was very the lore is interesting because one of the main it was an ensemble cast, but one of the main characters was a straight man playing a gay man. But he talks ⁓ Gail Harrel, Declan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, amazing. Lucy: but he talks a lot Aleta: Mm. Lucy: about how important that role was to him. And it was just very unique. Not I mean, not everybody like there were queer creatives and there were straight creatives on it, but it was just such a different time. And it explained what it was like to be gay in that time. Cause I I was out at that time, but I was young and I didn't really understand a lot about the community. ⁓ Declan: Mm. Lucy: And so kind of seeing the community now, a lot has changed. Declan: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like I think it's so important to have landmarks in history like that. And like I was aware of the legacy of the show. it's just like one of those things that I have never like sat down to like actually watch yet. But I mean shows like that paved the way. You know, it's Lucy: I hope you watch it. Is Riley? Yay! Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: I will ⁓ that and Zodiac Academy. I'm there. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: Zodiac's a beast, so that might take time, but you know, ⁓ to unwind you can just discover Brian and Justin and they're everything. They're everything. But I'll leave I'll leave it at that. I feel so bad. We're deviating so much ⁓ and Aleta: Brian is the Lucy: ⁓ I know this man has a bedtime, so ⁓ yeah ⁓ Pick your favorites, Alita, Declan: Never feel bad. I love the deviation. Lucy: let's do this. Aleta: Okay, I'm gonna jump yep. How do you navigate the boundary between your personal identity ⁓ and the psychology your characters? And is there a role that particularly stayed with you long after filming ended? Declan: yes. There's three. The the the three I had the biggest emotional responses to. Working backwards, Shane. I had a huge emotional response to Shane. I found it very, very hard after Actu I I had developed more skills by this point, but ⁓ I felt incredibly attached to that character. I felt I felt it was like the most different thing that I'd got to do and I just got very attached to that world. We were in Atlanta. It was like we're in this little bubble. So it was like harder to come out of that. And as well because after I shot down to my hot rival, there was I wanna say it was like a good three weeks to a month before we shot Stable Boy. So that was like the longest break that I had had in so long. And it felt so jarring because usually I'm like let's like back to back. So there was a lot of time to sit with that and that grief, but it was like beautiful and I loved it and but before that Aiden and Pool Boy, I cried for like weeks after that. Because not only was it like so special, because it was my first ⁓ queer vertical and I was like, I hope that I get the chance to do that again. And I hope that we that there's more made. I didn't know if there was gonna be more made because at this point maybe sneak had come out And I think there was Secret Agent Husband. I wanna say those were the only two that I was aware of. Then of course they started coming out more, but you compare last year to this year of how much content there is, there wasn't a lot. Like there there really wasn't. ⁓ at least for filming in LA for us as actors. And I just had such an intense like connection to that story and it feeling so special and feeling like God I'd always wanted to play a character like this and, you know, have this epic love story that I never got to have in high school. And so it was really hard. I felt really attached to those two characters. But in terms of like how you separate yourself psychologically and emotionally and then come back to yourself, I think it's just getting back into you and your routines and almost like keeping little like pieces of them, I think. like for pool boy I have a like a little crochet dolphin that knitted me and ⁓ you know I like I always look at that and like rem ⁓ that's the of Aiden for me and ⁓ you know coming back to your your family, your hobbies, your life ⁓ all really, helps. And just knowing that they're ⁓ You know, they're like they're a part of your heart forever. They're they they never go away. And it is like a weird disconnect then seeing it again on the screen and seeing it actually play out in the way that it's edited and but they're they're in you, I think, forever. So I like that you carry them with you and oftentimes I'll like ask myself what would my sometimes my characters do in this situation. ⁓ especially if you admire them and love them, you know? Yeah. Lucy: It's making me cry again. Your answers are just so ⁓ d heartfelt. You're just you're truly great. Declan: You guys are great. I'm loving these are so they're like making me think. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: ⁓ Lucy: Ha ha ha. Aleta: Okay. the next one kind of leads on. Acting often requires emotional vul vulnerability, probably almost always. ⁓ how do you protect yourself psychologically when your character is experiencing that deep emotion and trauma? Declan: Yeah. ⁓ it's f it's really funny, like I I'm able to flip out of it quite quite quickly. like I tend to not stay in a space like that for like after we rap because the thing is like often what happens like All of those really intense emotional scenes in Waterboy 2 where like I'm crying, Sky's crying, ⁓ you know, I'm bound to my rival when he's like dying in the freezer and there's literally gallons of snot coming out of my nose because I'm crying so much. We had to move on to another scene after that. So it's not like you have this ⁓ abundance of time to like get yourself back together. You kind of just have to like Aleta: Snap out of it. Declan: Next scene. I drops next because it could be a happy scene. Like, I'm pretty sure actually. ⁓ That in ⁓ the ⁓ I've seen this one kind of edited a bit. The scene in after press conference ⁓ with Donovan, where we finally like get back together, and I'm crying, he's crying. pretty sure that we had to shoot like a like an intimacy scene after that where it was like really happy or something. I so I I'm just like you you just bounce around so much and I think you just have to bring yourself out and be like, those emotions belong to that time in the character's life. and you know, I'm now moving into this phase of them. And obviously it really helps if you've got like a team around you that is like really tender. You know, JP was always so amazing at coming and giving me a huge hug and making me feel like really safe and you know, being like, it's okay, like, you know, let it out. That was thank you for that. And and our EP Jenny as well from Real Short. she would always be like, Thank you, thank you so much for that like being vulnerable and same with Amanda from Cosmic as well and ⁓ I remember like after Tristan and I did the freezer scene, we went and got tacos. He was like, Let's like let's go get tacos. Let's ⁓ let's like Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: let's just decompress a bit and ⁓ I think we had a margarita or something. And so that was like Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: really lovely when you got people around you like that who hold space for you and make you feel ⁓ safe and bring you back you. I would say like the team around you is so important ⁓ and having your rich. Of getting back to you and and switching back, but just knowing that you're kind of a vessel for that person and whatever they're going through at that time. And yeah, verticals, you just gotta keep on on. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: My gosh. I I think about how hard it must be. We we actually talk a lot about because we recap basically piece by piece most of what you guys are doing and we speculate a lot. Like how the hell as a queer person are you getting through some of these damn scenes? And I know that's not a question in here. ⁓ so Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: can pull if we want to, if you want us to, but I ⁓ I truly ⁓ think about that often. Because the Declan: Like the bullying scenes. ⁓ Aleta: The bullying, the slurs, like Lucy: bullying scenes the I I mean ⁓ I ⁓ I think a of the people playing the bullies, they're queer too. ⁓ And, you know, what that like for them to have to maybe relive or or play that character? I don't know. It's it's interesting to me. And I also thought about you and Waterboy too when you were talking. ⁓ Declan: Uh-huh. Lucy: Waterboy 2 psychologically damaged me. So I think about like and it was truly you and Sky, like, but especially you. I don't know what it was. I think you I I thought like how it made me think, did he come out of this at the end? Is it is he okay? Declan: Okay. Lucy: ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. ⁓ Declan: Yeah, I mean, I think that the the bullying scenes I went back and forth on the bullying scenes in my mind because my memory, I could be totally I haven't watched Pool Boy or Waterboy One for a really long time. But when I read the script for Stable Boy, I was like, Whoa, it feels like there's so much more in this one. I could be wrong. but I I remember reading that and going, is this too much? But then I also thought I had the thought of like this may be difficult for a lot of people to see and this is triggering. But then I also had the thought that it's maybe important to sometimes show stuff like this because this is some people's real experience. And we're not glorifying it. We're painting it as something that's really wrong and messed up. But This is people's real experience. I had an experience in high school which the scene where they're putting the saddle on my back, I had a very visceral reaction to that. Because when I was in high school, I had a similar situation where I was like forced down and like my body like went into I wasn't expecting my my body to go back to that place, but I did. And I was like really upset during that scene, but It was almost in a way like I felt like this needed to be shown, that this is unfortunately a reality for a lot of people. And I liked that those characters have always grown into like really strong, successful people. And I think that was like showing I I I was hoping that the story would show life can throw shit at you and When the worst happens, like c like keep going as awful as it is and like finding your chosen family and you're gonna make something of yourself. And that's what I hoped, but I know it is like very intense in some of those. So I'm always like mindful of that balance. And to answer your other question, yeah, I think like Waterboy Two was definitely like the most emotionally draining of all of them because there was so much like i i d heartbreak after three years and and you know what it would be like to love someone and let them go and to see them again and they're the only thing you ever wanted in this world and you can't you feel like you can't have them. And so I wanted to explore what what that actually meant. Because the thing I liked about Waterboy 2 was I did feel that even though I was like, Caden, just have a conversation with him in my mind. Like I had this conversation with JP before I was like, how are we gonna do this? Because I Like the fans will be like, just talk to him. Just ⁓ sit down and talk to him. ⁓ Because in my that's what I'm doing. I'm like, is crazy. But I had to go back in my mind to ⁓ the that you know Donovan and you that he would torch his dreams, ⁓ that he would do this, and have Also, like, how would he actually be out in the NFL as a as a player? How would that actually practically work for him? Not not growing up here, I don't know if it's different, but in Australia, with our football league, that would not be a easy thing. And so I tried to put that in my mind of like imagining Donovan with posters in his bedroom And it's all he ever talks about, and he makes me watch the games with him. And this is his whole identity, and it's who he is, and he would give it all up, or potentially jeopardize it by like us being caught and coming out. And what does that mean for him? Does he have that does headlines follow him around? Does he not have the career he wants to have? So that is how I had to like justify it in my mind. and justify Caden's decisions. Which was really like hard and like emotionally draining because there was like so much yearning for him and everything every time I was with him I wanted to be with him. But I just had to keep coming back to what does that mean for him? Lucy: Yeah. Your characters and the way they were played and written in Waterboy Two, I think hit a lot of fans in interesting ways. So there was definitely a small chunk of ⁓ who were related a lot to that, I think because it was a breakup story. And you both just killed it. You really did. I I I loved you in Bound. ⁓ and I I can rewatch that one over and over again. But Waterboy Two Declan: Mm. Yeah. Lucy: It's hard to see you guys. It is. And I I I'm serious and I think it's because of how well you both did. You guys know each other so well. But I was like, man, where are these guys pulling this from? 'Cause it hurts. Declan: It's good. Lucy: See how was painful. ⁓ Alita, we're gonna jump a little and we'll condense a little. Aleta: Yeah, you go ahead. Lucy: Okay, I was hoping to ask. I know you went to the Vertical Drama Love Awards, ⁓ the very first of its kind in person. ⁓ I wanted to just I'm kind gonna mush the questions together here. Declan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lucy: How was that Aleta: Ha ha Lucy: experience for you? Would you attend next year? ⁓ How was it with Waterboy winning? ⁓ Declan: Yes, yes. It was a crazy, crazy day slash a night because we had one they literally gave us a day off from filming to go. And so we wrapped, I want to say at midnight the night before, and then we started getting ready about midday. We had like a makeup artist come over with JP, Sky and I. And ⁓ then we went and JP and Skye were like very much like, we're not gonna win. So and I was like, guys, I think we need to like prepare, like if we win, like what do we say? And they were like, ⁓ no, no, no, no. And So when we won, I think the three of us were just like j just like ⁓ going on the stage. I like I truly my soul left my body, so I ⁓ anything would have been said, but ⁓ luckily JP and Sky were very with what they said. ⁓ but it was special. It was really, really cool like ⁓ not only like be surrounded by peers and people ⁓ make verticals, but there are a lot of people from different of the world who were fans, so getting to meet ⁓ and like, you know, just the people who support you and then And there were a lot of industry people there as well, which is really cool. It was highly overstimulating. I don't do well in large crowds and that was truly like wool. ⁓ Lucy: Ha ha ha. Declan: And I get very, very nervous. So it it was intense, but it was lovely. Like kudos to Vertical Drama Love, ⁓ Jen, Vertical Drama Love for for putting it on. I would definitely go again. hopefully like in a low I'm let's get some other nominees up there because I don't know if I can do that again. ⁓ Aleta: Mm-hmm. Declan: but ⁓ yeah, it was it was amazing and ⁓ I think that it's an interesting thing. I don't think it like fully had like sinks in. ⁓ in a way, but the the the win I'm taking from it, the thing that I feel most proud of is that out of every show, it was a queer show that won. And I think that because queer shows were initially seen as a risk and like compared to the amount of ⁓ conventional show like like they just weren't putting them as many into production. For that show to win, a queer show to win, just shows I think the apps, wow, there's such a demand for this content and I have seen a lot more shows being produced and made. ⁓ so I think If it had even a small part of that, I'm happy. that we can put more stories out there, more fresh takes on the genre, ⁓ more diversity, all that stuff. So that's like the win that I'm taking from it. And there were so many amazing shows, there were so many amazing queer shows. And like a awards is like tricky 'cause there's part of my brain that goes like there's so many deserving people and it's hard to like just like to one. But it's an I think an honor for that genre. And I just was like, Yeah, like like a queer Aleta: Mm. Declan: to out of all those verticals, I was like, let's it. Lucy: The queer fandom is mighty. Like, we may seem Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: Yes. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: but we don't play around. ⁓ the there there's a reason we tend to just watch queer ones. A lot of the straight ones they keep recycling stories. I mean, there's a lot of there's something very special about what you guys are doing. And as you know. ⁓ Declan: Yeah. Yeah. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Declan: it truly it's like the most supportive, engaged audience and I don't think they understood necessarily the power of that before or that there would be such a strong response, you know. Lucy: And it's just getting bigger. It's just gonna keep growing. Declan: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ Bringing more people into net. Lucy: That's right, that's right. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: All right, Alita. Aleta: Well, I know you w you really want to get to these ones, so why don't you Lucy: ⁓ Aleta: why don't you go for that? Yeah. Lucy: I get to ask the fun ones. ⁓ my. Okay. Well actually let Declan: Yeah. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: me ask him this other one real quick that I skipped. ⁓ do you know, ⁓ Declan, about Jen Cooper's vertical drama love fest? Have you heard about that? Declan: Yes. Lucy: Do you think that might be something you would do? I think it's happening in October. Declan: Yes, I did it last year in twenty twenty wait, is yeah, last year. Yeah, so yes. I did it last year. I'd be thrilled to do it again. I haven't yet spoken to Jen about it, but I'd be thrilled to do it. Yeah. Lucy: It'd be so cool. It would be amazing. Okay. So we know you love vampire diaries and I had a couple of vampire diaries questions that they felt burning to me here. So what about because ver well, real quick, vampire diaries is your favorite. Is it your favorite? Declan: ⁓ Okay. Lucy: ⁓ Declan: It's like up there, like top of like vampire of like shows in general? I think it's top three of shows. ⁓ Lucy: Shows in general. What are your top three shows? Ha ha ha. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: I'm going off Sheer Rewatch here. Gossip Girl, Sex in the City, Vampire Diaries. That's off like Sheer Rewatch. Lucy: Okay, very cool. Declan: But then also up there is like the OC and Game of Thrones is in there as well, so ⁓ there's a there's there's a varied bunch. Recently the Golden Girls ⁓ Lucy: Maya is gonna freak. Okay, we have a fan Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: that's gonna lose her but that is awesome. ⁓ my gosh, I wanna ask you. Can I deviate one more time? I'm terrible. Declan: Yeah. Of course. Please. ⁓ Lucy: Okay, what did you about the ending of Game of Thrones? ⁓ Thank you. Okay, correct answer. Declan: Hated it. Hated. I don't Lucy: ⁓ Declan: ⁓ no, I don't want ever like, ⁓ you know, ⁓ shit creators online, Daenerys was ⁓ my favorite. So I was ⁓ not with that ending. Lucy: My two. Declan: ⁓ Lucy: My feeling is here's how I felt. I actually would have accepted that ending, no problem, but it needed two more seasons to flesh it out. And so I think as fans, we all felt like we were robbed because I had been watching that for 10 years. Like I watched every episode, I paid for HBO Max, and we were all invested. Declan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We wa for ten years of our lives. And I'm the same. I'm like, okay, I can get on board with this Mad Queen thing, but it to happen in an episode? One episode. She was literally saving everyone an episode before. Lucy: Yeah, it was painful. It was so painful. But I still do watch the spin Aleta: Ha ha ha Lucy: offs and ⁓ you know. Yeah. Are you doing House of the Dragon? Declan: Yes, good, good. We're still Yes, I just watched season three, episode one. That would good. That was ⁓ you're in for a treat. You are I loved that. I was I I you know, I sick on the couch and I was just like Lucy: I haven't seen it yet, I need to see it. Okay. Declan: ⁓ Lucy: Okay, you saying that means I'm probably gonna really like it. So I am anticipating here. That's right. ⁓ Very Okay, vampire diaries. Alright, we're gonna go quick if I can. What about the vampire diaries drew you in? ⁓ Declan: I think we have similar tastes, so yeah. Love, passion, danger. To quote Damon Salator, you want a love that consumes you want passion, adventure, and even a little bit of danger. That's what I want in my TV. ⁓ Aleta: Yeah. Lucy: That's right, damn it. ⁓ What you consider the most epic ⁓ moment Vampire Diaries? Declan: ⁓ Lord, that's hard. That's really hard. I think there's two really epic moments. I think Damon Elena's first. ⁓ no, it's their second kiss, I think, in the hotel bed, where they're like, I think it's like maybe episode n season three, episode 19, I wanna say. Lucy: He's a real fan. Declan: And he's Aleta: Ha ha ha. Declan: These fans like slowly they like connect and then they go outside the motel and they have that epic kiss to ⁓ Florence the machine. Whoa! I replayed that a lot. ⁓ I love that. Honestly, as well, I think their dance at the end of season six when she's like going into the slumber is like and beautiful. ⁓ But a top contender for me, because I'm a big Stephan Catherine fan, ⁓ Is the Stefan Catherine kiss in season five, episode nine? I'm like, that is that is up there. Lucy: We did the right thing asking these questions. You are listing episode numbers, like Aleta: Ha ha ha. ⁓ Declan: Yeah, I am I I Lucy: you were Declan: was on the wiki. ⁓ Lucy: You were like me with Buffy. Like this is how I am with Buffy. ⁓ my gosh. So I was a big ⁓ we were frickin' robbed. ⁓ what is it? Claroline. ⁓ Klaus. Klaus and Caroline. I swear to God. I will I will forever be mad. I I will Declan: Yeah. Mm, mm. I will die on that hill. Like what were they doing? Lucy: That chemistry? Yeah, and and it's crazy because they didn't even have that many like scenes together together, but people still remember it. What? When did this end? Ten years ago? It's been a while. Declan: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah, and that started like that was the long game. I remember it was like season three when he like saved her and then she like woke up to the necklace. ⁓ a good one. Lucy: So I am actually re-watching it right now with my almost 12-year-old. And she loves it. She loves like this is this has been great about having a girl. Is we're just re-watching all my faves. So very cool. ⁓ okay, last one, and then Alita, I'll have to make you pick favorites. I'm sorry. So anticipate it now. Do you think Elena chose the right brother? Declan: Yeah. Yeah. Than go. I love that. Yeah. For story per ⁓ I Lucy: Ha ha Declan: think it made in the end, w like her choice. ⁓ I personally, in my world, it was Elena and Damon, Stefan and Catherine after she became human and she like redeemed herself, and then Klaus and Caroline. And that would have just like made my heart so happy. But ⁓ and if you're an originals fan, Elijah and ⁓ Elijah and Haley. Lucy: Haley, Hailey, yes. Declan: ⁓ so yes, from that point of view if I got what I want, but probably if it was like gonna be Stefan and Caroline, I wish like I think Elena and Stefan were also very epic, and I just no, like ⁓ no. Lucy: We are so alike. I am so anti like Caroline and Stefan were great friends. Like that, yeah, perfect friendship. Yeah. Declan: Yep. Let some friendships happen. Let some male female friendships happen. Lucy: I know, it was very forced. My god, this has been a delight. ⁓ my gosh, I'm Declan: Yeah. Lucy: ⁓ I I could talk vampi I want to talk more, but we can't, but that's okay. talk we'll talk at some point on a chat. In a scrub subscriber chat. We'll bug Declan: don't rush on J Lucy: you for more vampire. Declan: sure you ask ask all all the things you want. Don't worry, I'm not I've still got energy, so don't I'm bouncing. Lucy: Okay, you you need to like give us a signal. Declan: bouncing ⁓ Lucy: Like do this. Do this. ⁓ If you're at a place of where you're like, so done, just salute. Okay. Alright, but go ahead, Alita. ⁓ Aleta: Ha ha ha. Okay. Do you have any fun behind the scenes stories that we don't already know from any of your projects that you can share? Declan: Me have a little think. Let me have a little think of what you don't know. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha. Declan: Let me think. Okay, I think I don't know if I've actually spoken about this one, but inbounds my rival, do you know the red sheets that we're in? Aleta: Hm. Declan: those sheets, I don't know w what person ⁓ buys silk sheets for their bed. who is making love on those things? you just slip and was like the Aleta: right off. Declan: That was like the hardest part of our intimacy coordination. I'd just be like ⁓ I'd go flying over this bed. Especially like if ever he like threw on it or moved me. ⁓ Like 'cause like the the scene we did in the bed where he like pushes me down my hands are there, my hands just went ⁓ Like I don't know. Don't buy s silk sheets for that column girl. ⁓ and our director texts me today and they're reusing those sheets for another vertical they're doing. ⁓ And I was like, those sheets have seen ⁓ a lot. ⁓ Aleta: the same ones from the Prince's first love. Declan: No ⁓ real ⁓ my god. Those sheets are going from vertical set Aleta: No, I'm just I don't know. I Declan: to vertical set. ⁓ so that's Lucy: Ha ha ha ⁓ Declan: funny. And I know Tristan has about this before about like our shower scene in bound. But ⁓ the the shower scene in bound looks so good, but ⁓ we could only do like one shot Like 'cause they didn't want to have to redry us. So like what you saw is like the first shot that we had. And that shower like started really hot. And so the he turned it on, I look up, and it starts getting like really hot on my head. And also it was like going into my eyes because I have to look up at Tristan. So the the water is coming from above as I'm looking up at Tristan and it's like try and look sexy. Just try and look into it. ⁓ And Lucy: Yeah. Declan: you know, he starts kissing me and biting me and I'm just like, ⁓ it's coming from all Like this ⁓ that was pretty funny. ⁓ And then you guys already know about the baby bump scene where we strapped pregnancy belly. I'm still Lucy: Ha ha ha. Declan: to this day that no one found that funny as I did. The scene in Waterboy 2 where Sky is working out shirtless, that was like one of the coldest days in LA. He was ⁓ miserable. Cause it was so cold. It was it was so and was like shirtless against the grass for hours. Cause we did the scene and we did the ⁓ the massage scene and then we did the kiss and ⁓ it actually made it into the edit. There's a scene ⁓ where he's like whispering in my ear before I make a choice, and I like disassociated for For the first five seconds. That's because that was not meant to that was before action. That that was just when they were and he was, I think, saying something into my ear like, I'm so fucking cold or like And then you can hear and then see my eyes snap to him when we actually start the scene. So I don't know what episode this is of Waterboy 2, but it I think it's when he's trying to convince me to go home with him or convince me to kiss him, you'll see me disassociating. Lucy: I can't even that those are some amazing BTS. I l you you pulled it off in bound, just so you know, but you Aleta: Mm-hmm. Declan: I try. Thank you. Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: y I I can imagine the stimulation, like what heck is happening right now. Declan: What you don't see is my hands going. ⁓ Lucy: Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. Okay. Let's let's jump to this. You might make me cry again. We'll see. Yeah, okay. If you could give ten-year-old Declan any advice or encouragement about his future, knowing what you know now, what would it be? Declan: Yeah. ⁓ Whoa. I mean, I think just the biggest thing I'd have to say is like you're not broken. Like you're not defective. Because I think that was the thought that I had at that time. again, I just don't think there were representations of queer people that I had access to. And I think that's the biggest prevailing thing of my childhood is like I didn't know that I could have a love like that. I didn't know that it would be okay for me to do that. At my at that time I was like, there's something like wrong. This is you know, this needs to be suppressed. And you know, I think over the course of those years, so I would just wanna say to myself, no, like you're gonna be okay and ⁓ this isn't wrong for for what you're feeling and who you are. So I'd wanna say that to myself and that I I I would love to give little me like a preview of how good it can get. And not to say that I had you know, I had very loving parents and things like that, but there's I think growing up in that time there's so much questioning and so much that you don't know and so much confusion and it feels so scary and overwhelming and you know, just to to be able to tell little me that it's all gonna work out in the most unexpected and amazing ways would be that that's why I'd have the rewind button so I could do that. ⁓ Yeah. Lucy: Absolutely. Aww, I love that. Well, Alita, is there any that you're burning? I think we could go to the last two. There's one we didn't write on there, but unless there's one you really want. Yeah. Or if there's one, Declan, that we missed that you were really excited Declan: Yeah, burning questions. Lucy: to answer. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: ⁓ Aleta: ⁓ Declan: Wolf, I mean no, no, I don't think so. Aleta: No. Lucy: Okay. I know we've gone really deep. What you're right, you tell me what you want to do, Alita. Aleta: Well, do you want me to jump right to the end or do you want to do the next one? Lucy: Let's jump to the end. Yeah. Aleta: Okay. What does having a supportive fan base mean to you? ⁓ Declan: ⁓ Lord. ⁓ it's it's honestly just like how do I put this into words? It's something that I never anticipated. And I never anticipated ⁓ the how would make me feel ⁓ to have people who go to bat for you, who are in your corner, who are loving and engaging with what you do. I think that I'm learning so much as well from from all of you. And ⁓ it I think there's like a really interesting relationship between like the the artist and audience because you kind of y one can't exist without the other in a way. Like w we create the the thing f for all of you. So there's like this really special relationship that I just feel I mean I just feel so honored. I feel so honored that you watch the work, that you take the time to engage with it, that you take the time to do these beautiful edits that you do and talk about our shows and you i just the time and care that you all put into it. It's just It's meant the world to all of us and when I talk as I think Greg and I have had multiple conversations about this, like we just cannot believe it. Like compared to last year before our shows came out, and you know, now and there's this community behind these shows and you are influencing the creation of so many shows. because you're so passionate and speaking out about what you want, that just means the world to us. And it means the world to people who are now being able to view content like this. And we're gonna keep going. And I just think it's the most lovely, wonderful thing ever. And I'm just yes so appreciative from the bottom of my heart. So thank you. ⁓ Lucy: Aww, you've inspired a lot of fans. I mean, we did get inspired to do something like this, which has been really fun and therapeutic for Alita and I and we it means a lot to us too that you find you know that you find it like worthy to you know be a part of. And I I I just think about other fans too, like they're you guys have inspired people to write scripts. Like we know some amazing fans. I I I know of a fan who wrote one with you in mind. And it's amazing and I feel like we're very lucky. And that comes from you guys. It really does. That you guys set the tone. Declan: Mm. Yeah, and I mean I think that everything that you're all doing to create in this space as well is like so amazing and y I think like what I said about like we genuinely do like learn and and listen as well. Like your opinions like really matter and I think that we we try to integrate them as much as possible because it's like it's like the real time you know, feedback in a way. And so I love like hearing like what you liked about something, what you didn't like about something and because I don't know, it's like it it matters to us to n to to know what people are enjoying. 'Cause there's sometimes like where only a very small part of it we just get cast in the project and do our best to bring the words on the page to life. But, you know, anything that we can do to create things that people enjoy and want to see. And also like th the the podcasts and getting to like share experiences with people and then yeah, like if you guys are ever getting into writing and stuff like that I think that's all like this is where amazing things are made by people who are passionate about the subject matter. So Lucy: Absolutely. We are very noisy. Yeah. So we're not we are not sorry, apps. We're just Aleta: We're a small group but we're noisy. Declan: Sorry, not Aleta: The apps are so sick of us. Declan: ⁓ sorry. Lucy: gonna being sassy. ⁓ Yeah. Okay, we did ask this question, Andrew, too. I apologize it wasn't on our list, and again, if if you say no, it's okay. But for any future projects, would you ever be interested in coming on and recapping? Declan: Thank you. Lucy: One with us? Like one of yours? Yeah? Declan: ⁓ that would be fun. That would be very fun. Yeah. Yeah. Aleta: Ha ha ha. Lucy: Okay. Declan: ⁓ Absolutely. ⁓ Lucy: I love that had talked about ⁓ how excited he was. He was like, ⁓ yeah, could give BTS like while we're going through the scenes. Declan: He could y and y it'd probably like spark the memory of of so much ⁓ stuff. ⁓ Lucy: Absolutely. Okay. Alright. Well, I know that you might have some coming out in the future, so we'll we'll just yeah, we'll just see. Declan: Let's do it. Let's do a recap. ⁓ Lucy: Yay! ⁓ the best. ⁓ Alright, I'm okay taking us out if you are in Declan is. Okay. Aleta: Mm. Declan: Let's do it. Let's end this with a bang. Aleta: Let him rest. Lucy: ⁓ and it's me. So okay, hold on. Excuse me. We are we are rocking this Aleta: Yeah, it's you. We're s we are so professional. Declan: Yeah. Lucy: here, but okay. ⁓ Declan, it has been genuine pleasure. ⁓ We Aleta: Mm-hmm. Lucy: have loved having you with us today. We forward to following your career for many more years because you epic and you were killing it. And just know you're gonna go ⁓ so many places. ⁓ but yeah, both in the vertical space and beyond. Declan: Love you guys and appreciate you so much. Aleta: Yeah. ⁓ Declan: you for having me. So fun. You got my ⁓ I it was so to like ⁓ go down memory lane and talk about all this stuff and ⁓ yeah again I just love your podcast. ⁓ I love hearing ⁓ the podcast like thoughts on the shows as well. Like ⁓ in addition to the I love when like you get into the nitty-gritty of like your analysis of and what you want to see and ⁓ I ⁓ yeah, your I love your different on it all. So thank you for ⁓ again for all the and giving me the time tonight and ⁓ ⁓ You're the best. Aleta: It means so much you know when we When I sent Lucy a little voice note Declan: I eat nothing. Aleta: saying, you know, ⁓ lot of these people the podcasts and they're they're just people like us. Like, ⁓ why we talk about this all the time. Why we not do this? ⁓ And you know, we sort of this is sort the best case scenario for us actually having actors want to come in on and talk to us. We we weren't sure that that would ever happen when we started. We were like, ⁓ well, we'll just talk about them and put it out there into the world and see if anyone listens and it's just ⁓ it's been amazing. But ⁓ Declan: I'm glad. You never know what's gonna come from putting something out there. Aleta: Yeah. Yeah, it's been so special, so Declan: I can't wait to see where it goes. Who knows what's next, but besties do verticals. Aleta: ⁓ who knows? Lucy: I know we shall see. ⁓ Declan: ⁓ Aleta: Well, thank you for everyone listening for being with us on this very special episode. We hope that you'll join us again next time. Bye besties. Lucy: Bye better. Declan: My best My best ⁓ no I didn't know if it was in unison. Wait, let me try again. Are we doing it all together? Aleta: Ha ha ha altogether. Lucy: Okay. Aleta: Bye the Declan: Pai, peste. Lucy: Bye besties! Aleta: ⁓ we tried. Okay. Okay. Yeah. ⁓ Lucy: Okay, no I really want Declan to say it. Okay. Yeah. Declan: I wanted to say it so bad. This by myself? Okay. Bye Besties. Lucy: Okay.