Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Leading With Grace, Data and Consensus with Asbel Montes

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Leading With Grace, Data and Consensus with Asbel Montes · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
• 1:01
  - Podcast.
• 1:02
  - I am thrilled today to be joined by
• 1:04
  - an author, a healthcare finance expert,
• 1:07
  - the host of a great podcast, Leadership
• 1:10
  - Lab with Asbel Montes.
• 1:13
  - Asbel, it has had me on his podcast.
• 1:16
  - It it was literally about
• 1:18
  - and I get interviewed. I get a chance
• 1:19
  - to talk to lots of different people.
• 1:21
  - Was perhaps the best interviewer I've been interviewed
• 1:24
  - by in a very long time. Just an
• 1:26
  - incredibly gracious
• 1:27
  - and insightful person. So I'm excited so excited
• 1:30
  - to get a chance to visit with Asbel
• 1:32
  - today.
• 1:33
  - Asbel, let me ask you to do this
• 1:35
  - and
• 1:36
  - and take a moment if you don't mind.
• 1:38
  - I know cofounder, managing partner of solutions group
• 1:40
  - services,
• 1:42
  - author so much more.
• 1:44
  - Tell us about yourself
• 1:45
  - so the audience understands
• 1:47
  - more about you
• 1:49
  - and your background and where you where where
• 1:50
  - you got going in health care.
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  - Well, I know we all like talking about
• 1:54
  - ourselves. And, Scott, your words have been very
• 1:56
  - gracious. But,
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  - so I'm Asbel Montes, and I started in
• 2:00
  - the health care industry
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  - in the late nineties. So 1998
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  - to be specific.
• 2:05
  - And I actually lucked into it. I just
• 2:08
  - fell into it. I'm the son of a
• 2:10
  - pastor, a father who pastored in the North
• 2:13
  - Carolina area for many, many years. He's now
• 2:15
  - retired.
• 2:16
  - And I just landed into health care specifically
• 2:20
  - first in the emergency medical services space.
• 2:23
  - And because it was a service industry, that's
• 2:25
  - what we were used to doing as a
• 2:27
  - pastor's kid,
• 2:28
  - is serving. It just seemed like a natural
• 2:31
  - fit, and it was very specific in the
• 2:33
  - finance arena.
• 2:34
  - And so the first job I ever applied
• 2:36
  - for, after that, I was just kind of
• 2:38
  - recruited, and then I have an entrepreneurial
• 2:41
  - spirit.
• 2:42
  - And so my business partner and I started
• 2:44
  - a health care finance technology company back in
• 2:47
  - 2014.
• 2:48
  - And then,
• 2:50
  - leadership is is kind of a principle of
• 2:52
  - ours. Our parents taught us that,
• 2:54
  - and this grace leadership concept of which I
• 2:57
  - actually authored my first book on called In
• 3:00
  - Plain Sight
• 3:01
  - was literally around that journey and how do
• 3:03
  - we become more leaders of grace in health
• 3:05
  - care. So a little bit 30,
• 3:07
  - forty five second view, but that's my my
• 3:09
  - start into health care very specifically. Right? And
• 3:11
  - I've had the privilege of testifying before congress,
• 3:15
  - chairing,
• 3:16
  - Baca committees, being involved in some of the
• 3:18
  - legislative processes
• 3:20
  - federally as well as state.
• 3:22
  - So it's been a a well rounded,
• 3:25
  - career and advocacy policy very specifically around payment
• 3:29
  - and compensation re
• 3:31
  - reform around health care.
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  - Thank you. And you do so many interesting
• 3:35
  - things and talk to so many interesting people.
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  - Tell me, sort of, when you look at
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  - this next six months, Azbel, and next year,
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  - do you set goals? Do you figure out
• 3:45
  - where you're most focused on?
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  - And and if so, what what are the
• 3:49
  - big focuses this next year? It doesn't have
• 3:51
  - to be goal forward, but
• 3:53
  - but but where are you most focused and
• 3:55
  - excited as we move into the next six
• 3:56
  - months of this year, the end of this
• 3:57
  - year, and and into next year?
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  - Three things that I'm focusing on.
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  - Data, doctors, and leadership,
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  - and the tagline through the eyes of the
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  - patient. And I think that is key, very
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  - specifically
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  - reformative
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  - in the EMS space,
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  - around data, letting data lead and guide and,
• 4:18
  - our decisions through the process. But data is
• 4:20
  - just one element of that. We need doctors
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  - and physicians leading. They're the ones that direct
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  - care to the patient, and I don't know
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  - where we got away from that as a
• 4:29
  - society, as
• 4:31
  - as health care institutions.
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  - I have my own,
• 4:35
  - ideas about that, and I think we can
• 4:37
  - kinda follow the data to let that. And
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  - then the most core element I've been focusing
• 4:41
  - on literally over the last several months is
• 4:43
  - around the leadership side.
• 4:45
  - And if we get check ego at the
• 4:47
  - door
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  - and we could extend grace to others, we
• 4:50
  - don't know all the answers and we can
• 4:51
  - get into more consensus.
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  - As I always say, good a good governance
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  - is consensus governance.
• 4:57
  - That is where my main focus is. And
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  - so I kinda put everything into those three
• 5:01
  - buckets. If they don't align in those buckets,
• 5:04
  - I leave and put them on a
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  - a a whiteboard to maybe discuss later. But
• 5:08
  - that's literally the the three elements that I'm
• 5:11
  - looking at right now. So thank you. So
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  - doctors, data, and leadership.
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  - And and when you look at sort of,
• 5:17
  - like, the doctor shortage, we've got 900,000
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  - practicing physicians in the country,
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  - 350,000,000
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  - people.
• 5:25
  - We've got I I looked at the oncology
• 5:27
  - stats recently. 27,000
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  - doctors
• 5:30
  - and two million new diagnosis a year of
• 5:33
  - of cancer.
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  - And there's no wonder that
• 5:37
  - doctors,
• 5:38
  - oncologists are so overwhelmed.
• 5:41
  - But how do we deal with
• 5:44
  - it seems like through demographics
• 5:45
  - alone,
• 5:46
  - we're producing 200,000 more nurses a year right
• 5:49
  - now, only
• 5:50
  - 30,000 doctors a year.
• 5:53
  - It's just by pure demographics
• 5:55
  - moving towards so much more care being provided
• 5:57
  - outside of the control, outside of physicians.
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  - In some places, that's good. In some places,
• 6:02
  - that's bad.
• 6:03
  - But but where do you see that going
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  - forward? Are doctors gonna be so rare
• 6:09
  - that we're not really taken care of by
• 6:10
  - doctors, and is that gonna be a disaster
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  - for society?
• 6:14
  - So here's the way that I look at
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  - it, Scott, and I like to tell stories.
• 6:18
  - Here's how I see doctors and I think
• 6:20
  - the role that they need
• 6:22
  - to encapsulate,
• 6:23
  - which is a little different and it might
• 6:25
  - be a little controversial
• 6:27
  - in the statement, but I'm gonna tell a
• 6:28
  - story through the process. And I think this
• 6:29
  - is what artificial
• 6:31
  - is doing. There's a lot of discussion around
• 6:33
  - entry level jobs going away in certain white
• 6:35
  - collar because AI is gonna replace it.
• 6:38
  - And here's kind of what I'm coaching my
• 6:40
  - even my own team,
• 6:41
  - is more than likely if you're in this
• 6:43
  - entry level in this certain position, that position
• 6:45
  - will go away. But guess what? You've gotta
• 6:47
  - elevate, and you've gotta move into another oversight
• 6:49
  - role. Maybe you're not the particular one doing
• 6:52
  - that anymore. It's gonna be some type of
• 6:54
  - agent or artificial intelligence doing it. It's kinda
• 6:56
  - way that I see it in health care.
• 6:58
  - Doctors, maybe they don't need to see everything
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  - all of the time and do that actual
• 7:03
  - care delivery, but maybe they're providing oversight management.
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  - And we've kind of been moving that way.
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  - But I think that's the the iteration that
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  - we're gonna have to look at, and we
• 7:11
  - also need to make sure why do they
• 7:12
  - wanna even come into health care. Why does
• 7:14
  - this newer generation even wanna be a practicing
• 7:17
  - family practitioner or physician
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  - when if you look at the salary range,
• 7:21
  - they can actually go work and do something
• 7:23
  - else, but we need that. And this function
• 7:25
  - could look different in the rural America. I
• 7:27
  - was talking to some rural doctors
• 7:29
  - that sometimes that core benefit I was talking
• 7:31
  - to doctor
• 7:32
  - Gee, who's a phenomenal
• 7:34
  - OB GYN in New Orleans area,
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  - runs a company that's really moving in and
• 7:38
  - helping underserved OB GYN individuals, and she made
• 7:41
  - a statement to me on my last podcast,
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  - Scott. And she said this, in the rural
• 7:45
  - communities, they have noticed
• 7:47
  - that it doesn't matter the telehealth. It doesn't
• 7:49
  - matter if they see them via Zoom. They
• 7:52
  - want to touch the doctor.
• 7:54
  - But in urban areas, it's much more open
• 7:57
  - to that. And I think
• 7:59
  - physicians and we've gotta be rethinking the way
• 8:01
  - that maybe we did business
• 8:03
  - thirty, forty years ago is evolving and changing,
• 8:06
  - and that dynamic
• 8:07
  - needs to change.
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  - And so, yes, there is shortages,
• 8:11
  - but there are shortages if we continue down
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  - the same construct we're doing right now.
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  - Thank you. Let let me ask you this
• 8:18
  - question.
• 8:20
  - As health care gets more complex and expensive,
• 8:24
  - What do you see that leaders or or
• 8:26
  - consumers
• 8:28
  - most misunderstand about it what it takes to
• 8:31
  - improve care to patients? So we talked to
• 8:33
  - doctor g
• 8:35
  - of NEST. Right? Yeah. His very clear thoughts
• 8:38
  - about, okay, in these areas, they wanna see
• 8:40
  - a patient front facing in front of them.
• 8:43
  - Other places are more comfortable with it being
• 8:45
  - digital in a different way.
• 8:47
  - What is it that a lot of us
• 8:48
  - misunderstand about trying to actually take care of
• 8:51
  - patients?
• 8:53
  - Here's where I think and, you know, I
• 8:54
  - had an epiphany this morning when I was
• 8:57
  - reading
• 8:58
  - a
• 8:59
  - statement
• 9:00
  - that Mark Cuban
• 9:02
  - had posted on his LinkedIn. We know he's
• 9:04
  - very active. Whether I agree with everything he
• 9:05
  - says or not doesn't really matter at this
• 9:07
  - point. It's the influence that individuals have.
• 9:10
  - And he was bringing statements around hospitals, and
• 9:14
  - he was saying logistics, logistics, logistics. I actually
• 9:16
  - pinned an article I'm about to release on
• 9:18
  - it because it just stood out to me.
• 9:20
  - And he was actually looking at it from
• 9:21
  - the hospital's perspective saying a lot of the
• 9:24
  - costs that are that are coming down to
• 9:25
  - the patient have nothing to do with direct
• 9:27
  - patient care.
• 9:28
  - He was talking about where real estate was
• 9:30
  - being purchased. That's saying maybe the real estate
• 9:32
  - where you could have done it would have
• 9:33
  - been cheaper
• 9:34
  - per per square foot than where you actually
• 9:36
  - put it. Maybe some of what you're purchasing
• 9:39
  - and
• 9:40
  - the this art. And a lot of patients
• 9:42
  - may not understand that some of this is
• 9:43
  - foundational money, maybe paying for it. But I
• 9:46
  - think we've gotta reset and rethink how much
• 9:48
  - of the cost of care is directly going
• 9:51
  - to the patient
• 9:53
  - and how much of it isn't. This could
• 9:55
  - actually help out with making sure doctors have
• 9:57
  - increased salaries. We're given more direct care if
• 10:00
  - we can take some of the bloat out
• 10:02
  - of of health care. And I know that
• 10:05
  - sometimes it's hard to sit and reflect, and
• 10:07
  - my standpoint is just saying,
• 10:09
  - maybe we as in health care industry, as
• 10:11
  - CEOs and as leaders need to do and
• 10:14
  - reflect and look at our chart of accounts,
• 10:16
  - look at our budgets and really understand how
• 10:18
  - much of this is really going direct and
• 10:20
  - indirect.
• 10:21
  - Some of it's transparent.
• 10:22
  - Some of it is lost through
• 10:24
  - a myriad of ways that you can hide
• 10:26
  - stuff. And I think this administration's really I
• 10:29
  - mean, it's very interesting to me that three
• 10:32
  - bills are are are introduced in congress around
• 10:35
  - transparency
• 10:36
  - and more transparency.
• 10:37
  - And I believe if we add more transparency,
• 10:39
  - the free market
• 10:41
  - will actually will correct itself.
• 10:44
  - And and talk about give us an example
• 10:47
  - currently, because I think there are plenty of
• 10:48
  - them, quite frankly.
• 10:50
  - You know, I'm a believer that there's no
• 10:51
  - way about out of having government involved in
• 10:54
  - health care Sure. But so many of the
• 10:56
  - best solutions right now in in iterations and
• 10:59
  - improvements are coming from the free market or
• 11:01
  - private enterprise.
• 11:03
  - A couple examples where private enterprise
• 11:06
  - or nongovernmental
• 11:07
  - funded efforts
• 11:09
  - are are making a bigger difference in health
• 11:11
  - care today.
• 11:12
  - Oh, I I think there's a lot of
• 11:14
  - that happening right now, and I think one
• 11:16
  - of them is in the cost of drugs.
• 11:19
  - I really like to see what's happening amongst
• 11:21
  - I just saw some some stats that were
• 11:23
  - posted this week related to the PBM models.
• 11:27
  - And, generally, they're trying to do some regulatory
• 11:29
  - piece around it, but the free markets are
• 11:30
  - out there really discussing it, having conversation, and
• 11:33
  - I think I saw a stat, don't quote
• 11:35
  - me on this, guys, like 30
• 11:37
  - decrease in some of this that's actually being
• 11:39
  - passed off to the patient. The employers are
• 11:41
  - getting more involved
• 11:43
  - in really trying to understand
• 11:45
  - what is this
• 11:46
  - layer of stuff that we are paying for
• 11:49
  - that's exacerbating the cost that has nothing to
• 11:51
  - do with the direct care of the patient.
• 11:54
  - Those that's where the free market gets involved.
• 11:56
  - Now what happens is the free market can
• 11:58
  - also have bad actors.
• 12:00
  - People that exploit the system, and that's where
• 12:02
  - I think regulators really need to be involved
• 12:04
  - is to make sure that there are safeguards
• 12:06
  - around that or what we call guardrails.
• 12:08
  - Like, with anything that we do in life,
• 12:09
  - you need a guardrail. If you're riding down
• 12:11
  - and down a highway, you need guardrails
• 12:14
  - if you're gonna go over a bridge. You
• 12:16
  - don't want you want some detraction to make
• 12:18
  - sure I don't fall over. That to me
• 12:20
  - is how government should look at it, but
• 12:22
  - the free market should be the road
• 12:24
  - and government should be the guardrails.
• 12:28
  - Love that. And we also see this acceleration
• 12:30
  - in other spots, free market, whether a lot
• 12:32
  - of it's the artificial intelligence, evolution,
• 12:35
  - the the quicker acceleration of training of nurses
• 12:39
  - has been a huge positive.
• 12:41
  - We we see sort of the telehealth,
• 12:44
  - the GLP ones, 30,000,000 people now are getting
• 12:47
  - GLP ones through telehealth
• 12:49
  - versus the traditional health systems, traditional government funded
• 12:52
  - programs, and so forth. So all these different
• 12:54
  - things that are moving in the right direction
• 12:56
  - that that are sort
• 12:57
  - of revolved sometimes go unnoticed, but I but
• 13:00
  - I think you you you your point is
• 13:02
  - is so well taken on some of these
• 13:04
  - evolutions around drug pricing, so many efforts there
• 13:06
  - that are being done.
• 13:07
  - And and and and talk for a second,
• 13:10
  - Azbel. You get a chance to visit with
• 13:12
  - lots of leaders.
• 13:14
  - Before we talk about leadership advice,
• 13:17
  - give us a few of the core thoughts
• 13:19
  - out of your book, In Plain Sight, some
• 13:22
  - of the core thoughts, some of your core
• 13:23
  - thinking that comes out of the book.
• 13:25
  - I'll I'll tell you what comes out, and
• 13:28
  - I have not always led from a position
• 13:31
  - of grace. And what does grace mean? Grace
• 13:33
  - is actually a faith based word, but it
• 13:35
  - crosses a lot of different lines when we
• 13:37
  - look at that. It's,
• 13:39
  - can I sit down and if somebody makes
• 13:42
  - a mistake, can I extend them grace first
• 13:44
  - before critiquing?
• 13:45
  - And oftentimes, we see people draw lines in
• 13:47
  - the sand. It's either the health care providers
• 13:49
  - think it's the payer's fault, the payer say
• 13:51
  - it's the provider's fault, the payers and providers
• 13:53
  - say it's the regulator's fault, or the regulator
• 13:55
  - say it's the congress's fault. And so we
• 13:58
  - don't have a lot of grace for people
• 13:59
  - to sit down and get to consensus, and
• 14:00
  - that was the core of the book. But
• 14:02
  - why do people not extend grace, Scott? It's
• 14:05
  - because oftentimes we don't give our grace to
• 14:06
  - ourselves. We beat ourselves up when we make
• 14:09
  - a mistake as a leader. And so if
• 14:11
  - I don't know how to even extend grace
• 14:13
  - to myself first, how can I extend it
• 14:16
  - to others? And that was literally the core
• 14:19
  - of my book when I was speaking, and
• 14:21
  - it was taking it through a self journey.
• 14:23
  - Because oftentimes, it's easy
• 14:25
  - to talk about somebody else's journey, but when
• 14:26
  - you have to talk about your own journey,
• 14:28
  - you have to actually admit a lot of
• 14:30
  - things. And that was literally
• 14:32
  - kind of the core of what I did,
• 14:35
  - and a lot of my leadership principles were
• 14:37
  - based upon
• 14:38
  - two individuals that have impacted my life from
• 14:40
  - the time I was in my teens, and
• 14:42
  - that was John Maxwell
• 14:45
  - and doctor Henry Cloud.
• 14:47
  - And they have really formed some of the
• 14:49
  - formative leadership principles
• 14:51
  - that I had that kinda has moved me
• 14:52
  - towards grace. And, of course, my dad was
• 14:54
  - a pastor, so I was raised with principles,
• 14:58
  - that you know, I was a a Christ
• 15:00
  - follower,
• 15:00
  - and so those principles were kind of instilled.
• 15:03
  - I didn't always follow them. As I'm getting
• 15:05
  - later in life, I'm trying to follow them
• 15:06
  - and use them, and I see so many
• 15:08
  - correlations in leadership because of it.
• 15:11
  - Thank you very, very much.
• 15:14
  - Talk a little bit about I'm I'm very
• 15:16
  - familiar with John Maxwell's work.
• 15:19
  - And and, obviously, on on the concept of
• 15:21
  - falling down or challenges
• 15:22
  - and
• 15:24
  - having issues,
• 15:25
  - all of us go through this life having
• 15:27
  - some issues, some challenges.
• 15:30
  - You find me the person who presents themselves
• 15:32
  - as perfect. I'll generally find you the person
• 15:34
  - who's a liar.
• 15:35
  - But but, you know, I I just but
• 15:38
  - but, you know, all of us have our
• 15:39
  - own foibles.
• 15:40
  - None of us are on flawed, at least
• 15:42
  - as far as I could tell.
• 15:44
  - Yeah. Talk about doctor Henry Cloud. He's someone
• 15:47
  - I'm not as familiar with, so, of course,
• 15:48
  - I'm looking him up as we're talking. But
• 15:50
  - talk to us a little bit about
• 15:52
  - what what his focus is in boundaries and
• 15:54
  - so forth in in in certain of his
• 15:56
  - work.
• 15:57
  - I think that was probably the one book
• 15:59
  - that was probably
• 16:01
  - the the book that impacted my life was
• 16:03
  - it that was boundaries. Number one is, when
• 16:06
  - you're reading it or whatever, you begin to
• 16:08
  - understand that a lot of times reason decisions
• 16:10
  - are being made is be because people don't
• 16:12
  - have boundaries.
• 16:13
  - And this is the concept that you started
• 16:15
  - to hear about. It's become very popular now
• 16:17
  - about the difference between being kind and being
• 16:19
  - nice. And then he came out with a
• 16:21
  - book called Boundaries for Leaders, and then he
• 16:23
  - came out with a book called Integrity.
• 16:25
  - Then he caught came out with a book
• 16:27
  - called Safe People. And I've I originally got
• 16:29
  - into him because it was more for personal
• 16:31
  - development. Had really nothing to do with business
• 16:33
  - at the time. And it's like, you know,
• 16:35
  - a lot of times in our personal lives
• 16:37
  - bleed over into how we lead.
• 16:39
  - And that was kinda my introduction
• 16:42
  - to doctor Cloud. And from there, I've literally
• 16:45
  - read almost every single book that he's that
• 16:47
  - he has and correlated to how I can
• 16:49
  - actually use those principles
• 16:51
  - to govern in the leadership side. John Maxwell
• 16:54
  - was next. Of course, his 21 irrefutable laws
• 16:57
  - of leadership, the law of the lid
• 17:00
  - was the biggest thing that was,
• 17:02
  - directly impacting to me as a leader. And
• 17:05
  - so his leadership principle number one, you know,
• 17:07
  - the law of the lid that nobody can
• 17:09
  - go past the leader is so true.
• 17:11
  - So,
• 17:12
  - I was listening to it this morning on
• 17:13
  - a podcast. Somebody was talking about that, and
• 17:16
  - it's just amazing that some of the principles
• 17:19
  - that he has, if we espouse them from
• 17:20
  - a leadership perspective,
• 17:22
  - oftentimes, the reason why we're not
• 17:24
  - getting things done or getting things moved on
• 17:28
  - policy side, advocacy side is because if we
• 17:31
  - would understand the core fundamentals of leadership and
• 17:33
  - some of us would start to get louder
• 17:35
  - instead of letting
• 17:37
  - fringes become loud
• 17:39
  - in in espousing things that are not true.
• 17:42
  - But it's easy for me to talk at
• 17:44
  - you, but am I listening to you? And
• 17:47
  - so that's why I'm really on leadership because
• 17:49
  - many times we're not listening to hear people.
• 17:51
  - We're just listening because we think we have
• 17:53
  - the answers, and sometimes you can change my
• 17:55
  - mind if I would just sit there, try
• 17:57
  - to listen to you to get the consensus
• 17:58
  - because I can pretty much agree with almost
• 18:00
  - 85 to 90% of something that everybody said.
• 18:03
  - But I can choose to focus on the
• 18:05
  - 10 or 15% that I don't agree with
• 18:06
  - you on, Scott, or I can choose to
• 18:08
  - focus on the 85% that I do agree
• 18:10
  - with you on and then try to work
• 18:12
  - through some consensus from that standpoint.
• 18:16
  - And doctor Cloud
• 18:17
  - and John Maxwell are the two that have
• 18:21
  - literally influenced my life. I've never been able
• 18:23
  - to meet doctor Cloud, but one day I
• 18:25
  - will.
• 18:26
  - I have been able to meet Maxwell on
• 18:27
  - several occasions.
• 18:28
  - And just an amazing human being.
• 18:31
  - Really fantastic.
• 18:33
  - Yazbelle, where can people learn more about your
• 18:35
  - work and about your your company?
• 18:38
  - Where can they learn more about Asbel Montez?
• 18:40
  - Sure. If they go to asbelmontez.com,
• 18:44
  - it is a site where they can actually
• 18:46
  - purchase my book. They can see a lot
• 18:48
  - about me. They can even join my list
• 18:50
  - serve. I send out a leadership principle on
• 18:52
  - things that I'm going through, what I feel
• 18:54
  - like would impact on asbelmontez.com.
• 18:56
  - And also the company that we own, and
• 18:58
  - that would be solutionsgroup.com.
• 19:02
  - And it's a health care finance technology, and
• 19:04
  - we do a lot of consultings
• 19:05
  - work. There's a lot of work that we
• 19:07
  - do on the services side in the health
• 19:08
  - care space.
• 19:10
  - Fantastic. Well, I am gonna read my next
• 19:13
  - pickup, and I'm I'm browsing it now,
• 19:15
  - of course, is boundaries. I'm gonna read that
• 19:18
  - or try and get into that and see
• 19:20
  - what I can learn. I love the reference.
• 19:22
  - Asbel, it is a pleasure visiting with you.
• 19:24
  - You you're one of the most uplifting persons
• 19:27
  - I get to visit with. I really appreciate
• 19:29
  - your,
• 19:30
  - being involved with you, getting a chance to
• 19:31
  - visit with you. Thank you today for joining
• 19:34
  - us in the Becker's Healthcare podcast. I look
• 19:36
  - forward to doing this again in not too
• 19:37
  - long. Scott, appreciate it. Thank you for keep
• 19:39
  - leading forward, my friend.
• 19:42
  - We're trying. No. Thank you so much.