Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / The hunt for the Grim Sleeper and the Apology Line

Transcript

The hunt for the Grim Sleeper and the Apology Line · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:30
  Hey everyone in serial killer country.
• 0:32
  My name is Brittany Ransom. And my name is Brian Joyner, and
• 0:36
  this is When Killers Get Caught. A podcast devotes deep dives
• 0:38
  into the lives of killers we love to learn about.
• 0:41
  And each week Brian and I will discuss two true crime stories
• 0:43
  that resonated with us. And then I will lead you down
• 0:46
  the dark path of learning about who that killer was, how they
• 0:49
  grew up, how they killed, and most importantly, how they got
• 0:52
  caught. Then Brian will slow things down
• 0:55
  and give us a walk through the creepier side of life, Sometimes
• 0:58
  paranormal, sometimes cryptids, and sometimes just weird things
• 1:01
  that happen. Just a teeny tiny reminder that
• 1:05
  you can support us through our Patreon subscription and get a
• 1:07
  bonus podcast every week called Conspiracy Crypt, which is just
• 1:12
  Brian and I trying to make each other mad, finding the most
• 1:15
  obscure conspiracies that we can.
• 1:17
  This coming episode for this week is me making Brian sit
• 1:22
  through 40 minutes of a discussion of every conspiracy
• 1:26
  theory around the Kardashian family.
• 1:30
  So fun. It actually ended up being a lot
• 1:34
  of fun, even though he was very worried it was going to be
• 1:36
  terrible. But regardless, you can also, if
• 1:45
  that's not up to your speed, go to When Killers Get Caught dot
• 1:48
  Shop and you can buy anything from our past lineup.
• 1:53
  And just a heads up, you're going to see this in the coming
• 1:56
  content in the next couple of weeks.
• 1:58
  We have a new merch drop, a new Thick Did is on its way and its
• 2:03
  name is The Ass Watch. And that's all I'm going to say
• 2:07
  about that. It's beautiful.
• 2:14
  You can imagine what it might look like, but our artists,
• 2:18
  Bosey Doodles, outdid themselves.
• 2:21
  It was incredible. Anything that you could do,
• 2:27
  anything you can do, buy things, you know?
• 2:29
  We're trying to get new equipment and soundproofing
• 2:33
  stuff because we both live in houses with lots of people and
• 2:36
  it's been a struggle. So anything you can do helps us
• 2:39
  so much. Thank you for your support.
• 2:42
  Thank you for some of you who have been here since the first
• 2:44
  episode. You have no idea how when I am
• 2:47
  feeling real down, that makes me feel a lot better.
• 2:52
  Now this week in True Crime, I I am not a huge fan of.
• 3:00
  I didn't watch the Tinder swindler, let's put it that way,
• 3:04
  because I was like, yeah, this goes on.
• 3:06
  I mean, it's the same thing that happened with Bell Gunness, but
• 3:09
  this one popped on to my radar this year because this is a
• 3:15
  serial con man who they are referring to as the man of
• 3:20
  uncountable identities. Police have referred to him as a
• 3:25
  shapeshifter, and so his real name, we do have a real name for
• 3:31
  him is Joseph Corey. But like, even in the newspaper
• 3:33
  article, they're just showing piles of his driver's license.
• 3:36
  Michael Arthur Weston. Aaron Schwartz, Jason Levy.
• 3:40
  Like, he just has a million identities.
• 3:42
  I don't even know how you make that happen.
• 3:44
  He has dozens of different bank accounts.
• 3:48
  Like, don't they check you through a system when you start
• 3:52
  a new bank account? I think so.
• 3:54
  But then, you know, using a different Social Security number
• 3:58
  and all this other stuff, maybe that's is it that.
• 4:04
  Well, that's that's stuff you can easily like a black market,
• 4:07
  deep web, stuff like that. You know what I mean?
• 4:09
  Either way. So Joseph Corey is currently in
• 4:13
  trouble because as he pretended to be a doctor and he scammed a
• 4:18
  bunch of different companies out of money.
• 4:20
  He was saying like I have my private practice and I need to
• 4:23
  raise money for these expensive machines for my business and he
• 4:31
  has admitted to stealing $3.5 million.
• 4:38
  The federal government thinks it's a lot closer to 14,000,000
• 4:42
  but apparently 3.5 is all we can prove right now.
• 4:46
  The other situation is that he completed the the hospital fraud
• 4:53
  or the medical fraud while he was already on the run from a
• 4:57
  previous fraud case where he had been given a nine year sentence.
• 5:02
  So he's doing fraud on top of fraud?
• 5:04
  Yeah. So that one was a lot smaller.
• 5:06
  Actually, it was in 2019 was Before 2 that he got found
• 5:11
  guilty in 2019 for stealing $370,000 from an international
• 5:16
  hotel chain through somehow depositing fraudulent checks
• 5:20
  into an account he set up through them.
• 5:22
  Which is another thing I didn't know you could do.
• 5:25
  Apparently I'm just too poor to know about how like
• 5:30
  international banking and things work.
• 5:32
  I didn't know that you could deposit a check with a hotel and
• 5:35
  pull that money out like they were a.
• 5:37
  Bank I didn't. Know you could do that either.
• 5:41
  Listen, us broke folk, listen. Don't even know.
• 5:44
  Don't even know. Regardless, so he got in trouble
• 5:47
  for that in 2019. And his response?
• 5:51
  To getting a nine year sentence was to flee and rip off at least
• 6:02
  10 lenders they found so far and still three and a half million
• 6:06
  dollars. And so when he got caught for
• 6:08
  that, he then had all the money shifted into gold coins, had
• 6:16
  those gold coins sent to different post office boxes
• 6:19
  where he then picked them all up and then dipped out to Mexico.
• 6:23
  So that was just 20/20. He had listen, the rest of us
• 6:26
  were in quarantine. He was living the life.
• 6:31
  And then it took the feds a year to find him in.
• 6:36
  They found him in Monterrey, Mexico in 2021.
• 6:41
  And so now he's back in the States.
• 6:42
  He's been extradited. He they even found an ID for the
• 6:46
  CIA. Like that's how many different
• 6:48
  identification cards he had. Honestly, it reminds me of Sam
• 6:51
  and Dean from. Superman, only they weren't
• 6:55
  actually making money off of theirs.
• 6:57
  But like you know they had like a million different like cop
• 7:00
  like. They really did.
• 7:02
  Didn't like. How did you get all this?
• 7:04
  We just glanced over the fraud in that show.
• 7:07
  My God, it's OK. That's so funny.
• 7:08
  We just loved them too much. This is true.
• 7:12
  But yeah, Corey's trying to say it's not really medical fraud
• 7:16
  because he only made phone calls pretending to be a doctor.
• 7:19
  To lenders, but not to patients, I mean.
• 7:26
  There, that's that's just over. That's the Gray area there.
• 7:29
  Yeah. Well, he's worried that that
• 7:31
  nine year sentence is going to balloon up to like 50 because
• 7:36
  they're still, they're still working on it.
• 7:38
  They they've only put him in jail for the first crime, not
• 7:41
  for the second one. And he has been ordered to pay
• 7:45
  restitution to those millionaires who gave him money.
• 7:50
  So, so far that's 3.5 million. But I don't think this is done.
• 7:53
  It might continue on, but that's all I got for you today.
• 7:56
  Look, someone like him. He has the skills to be an
• 8:01
  actual like CIA, FBI, whatever, Black Ops type of person.
• 8:07
  Frank, whatever his name is. Who from?
• 8:09
  Catch me if you can. Eventually, the feds offered him
• 8:12
  a job. Yeah, see?
• 8:14
  Like like. They they can use his skills.
• 8:19
  He has the skills. Obviously.
• 8:21
  He has to stay off the grid for at least a year.
• 8:25
  I listen, people. Take He just needs some
• 8:28
  training. When people pick a place to
• 8:29
  like, run away to, you got to choose a spot that doesn't like
• 8:32
  America. Y'all like.
• 8:34
  And listen, I know it seems like everybody hates us, but we got
• 8:37
  lots of deals with lots of people.
• 8:40
  You got to find a country that hates America and will
• 8:43
  definitely not work with you when it's time for extradition.
• 8:48
  So it's not Canada and it's not Mexico because both of them have
• 8:52
  a lot. We have a lot of money deals
• 8:54
  with the north and the South of America.
• 8:57
  So you better go further South or something.
• 9:00
  I don't know. Find you a private island and
• 9:03
  just fall off the grid entirely. There you go.
• 9:07
  There you go. Well, Yep.
• 9:14
  So, like everybody else, I hate the dentist.
• 9:19
  Is you true? Yeah, yeah, the dentist.
• 9:22
  I don't like people with my mouth.
• 9:23
  I don't like people looking at my teeth and not like I have bad
• 9:25
  teeth. It's just like, I don't, I don't
• 9:27
  know why you look at my mouth. It's just weird because people,
• 9:30
  mine just aren't that great. I mean, I'm not saying mine are
• 9:35
  perfect, but I go to the dentist.
• 9:38
  Every Was it six months? So you know, I take care of my
• 9:41
  teeth anyway. I don't.
• 9:44
  I just brush. It well, a man in Texas was
• 9:51
  very, very, very upset with his dentist office and it resulted
• 9:58
  in two people, two dentists, being shot and killed.
• 10:04
  What? Yeah.
• 10:08
  So this happened on the 16th, and I guess this, this man, I
• 10:14
  don't have his name. Huh.
• 10:17
  It's weird. We know.
• 10:19
  No, it's just he's he was 40 years old.
• 10:20
  OK, He goes in, I'm guessing he goes in, he's going in for like
• 10:23
  a a routine checkup or something like that.
• 10:27
  And he got very upset with just the clinic.
• 10:36
  Wow. There's his name.
• 10:37
  Steven Alexander Smith. Did he say why he was upset?
• 10:41
  It does not say like it does because my mouth always comes
• 10:46
  out hurt whenever I go to the dentist.
• 10:50
  No, and it's. Weird because I've been looking
• 10:52
  at all these different articles. I'm not sure, but it doesn't say
• 10:57
  why he got like upset, but he was mad at I guess at the end of
• 11:03
  his appointment and. It's probably over something.
• 11:07
  This is assurance probably you need to take her or something
• 11:09
  shit like that. But he, he started a
• 11:16
  confrontation with somebody at the at the lobby I guess, and he
• 11:21
  goes out to his car or his truck, my bad.
• 11:23
  He lets you his pickup truck and he grabs his handgun and he's
• 11:28
  like, I'm so mad, I'm just going to go up there and shoot up this
• 11:31
  whole dentistry, so. He does this, he goes back
• 11:38
  inside, he shoots two other dentists there and they die.
• 11:46
  And he, he flees the area. Of course, he goes home.
• 11:52
  And you know, cops go to this house, of course, because
• 11:55
  there's not a record of the fact that he was just in the building
• 11:58
  30 seconds ago. Right.
• 12:03
  So apparently he's he's at his house with his parents and so
• 12:09
  his parents walk out and he walks out and he is been charged
• 12:15
  with capital murder and aggravated assault with a deadly
• 12:18
  weapon and he's on. He's in custody.
• 12:21
  For a while. And he's on a bond with
• 12:25
  $3,000,000, so yeah, he deserves.
• 12:30
  Yeah, I'm like it. Doesn't say what the hell.
• 12:33
  I mean, listen, I don't like the dentist either, but.
• 12:36
  Like, that's what I'm saying. Like, I don't like the dentist,
• 12:38
  but I don't think I'd be mad enough, even, like, even if they
• 12:40
  fucked up my teeth a little bit. Like look, I got a I got a
• 12:46
  cavity filled. The last time I was at the
• 12:48
  dentist, right, And they were drilling and drilling, I was
• 12:51
  like, are you guys, are you doing what you're supposed?
• 12:55
  To like are you? Sure, you're on the right tooth.
• 12:59
  Like, I was so nervous. I was like, oh, my fucking like,
• 13:05
  don't drill into my cheek because I can't feel shit in my
• 13:07
  mouth right now. So if you're drilling into my
• 13:09
  face, I can't tell. That's how nervous I got.
• 13:13
  It was like take a chunk of cheek for the lulls.
• 13:18
  Yes, for the lulls of it, yes. God, poor dentist's office.
• 13:24
  They're just doing their job to torture everyone.
• 13:29
  It's for your own betterment, really.
• 13:31
  I do need to get like, I need to get teeth insurance, which is
• 13:35
  really annoying. That's not included in regular
• 13:37
  insurance, but. Yeah.
• 13:40
  No dental and vision. So yeah, also not included.
• 13:46
  No. Yeah, I pay uh this one company
• 13:50
  like 99 bucks for like 4 years worth of appointments.
• 13:54
  For classes, yeah. I'm not saying I'm on air
• 13:57
  'cause, you know, we don't do free sponsorship here, but if.
• 14:00
  You wanna know? I can let you know later.
• 14:03
  Like, I'm good. My, my job actually gives me the
• 14:08
  the vision in the nanto, which is so nice.
• 14:10
  Awesome. Yeah,
• 14:24
  well, in 2008, an article ran in LA Weekly from Christine Pelsack
• 14:31
  that said the Grim Sleeper returns he's murdering Angelenos
• 14:35
  as cops hunt his DNA. By the time this article ran,
• 14:39
  there were already 10 victims and the police were rushing to
• 14:43
  find and identify a man who started killing in 1984 and had
• 14:47
  just stopped for 16 years. Today, you're probably going to
• 14:55
  notice some similarities to the victimology from Anthony Sowell,
• 14:58
  which is a theme that's been coming up more and more often.
• 15:00
  As I look through some of the requests from fans, this was
• 15:04
  another one of the people that was requested by our listeners.
• 15:08
  If you have not guessed it yet, I'm discussing Lonnie Franklin
• 15:12
  Junior today, also known as The Grim Sleeper.
• 15:15
  And truly, the only source that I could have for this podcast
• 15:19
  this week is Christine Pelsek. She wrote the article that named
• 15:23
  him. Like myself, she's been
• 15:25
  fascinated by Serial Killer since she was a child.
• 15:28
  And most importantly, she covered this story from the
• 15:30
  early 2000s into its conclusion into 2020.
• 15:34
  So her book, which is called Scroll Me Down, I believe it's
• 15:40
  called Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, The Lost Women of South Central.
• 15:48
  It's called The Grim Sleeper, The Lost Women of South Central
• 15:51
  by Christine Pelsack. It's a great book.
• 15:53
  It goes a lot into the history of the people, which is what I'm
• 15:55
  going to focus on a lot today as well.
• 15:58
  There are a lot of articles. One of the things that I've
• 16:02
  always tried to do with this podcast is highlight the people
• 16:08
  who were killed and the effects of those crimes.
• 16:10
  And so that's what Christine did, and I really like that, and
• 16:13
  that's why she is my main source for today.
• 16:17
  Also, before we start, I do want to let everybody know.
• 16:19
  All of Lonnie Franklin Junior's victims, except for one, are
• 16:23
  black women. The other is a black man, a
• 16:25
  demographic of people in the US historically ignored and harmed
• 16:29
  by both those outside and within our community.
• 16:33
  It's hard to discuss this without discussing it from a
• 16:35
  lens of being a black person, so you're going to probably hear
• 16:41
  that from us today, but we'll start where we always do.
• 16:46
  Lonnie Franklin Junior was born in Los Angeles, August 30th,
• 16:49
  1952 to Ruby and Lonnie Senior. Shortly before Lonnie Junior was
• 16:53
  born, his parents were in a car accident and Ruby was thrown
• 16:56
  from the car and had to have major surgery.
• 16:59
  She survived and gave birth to Lonnie and then his sister
• 17:02
  Patricia, who was born in 1957. Lonnie also has an older
• 17:06
  brother, Otis, from a previous relationship.
• 17:09
  When Ruby was a hairdresser in Texas, he didn't really get to
• 17:12
  know his older brother. Otis stayed in Texas for most of
• 17:16
  the time and only visited the family in LA.
• 17:21
  This is peculiar because Lonnie was born with the symptoms of
• 17:25
  head trauma that we have seen from other serial killers from a
• 17:29
  very young age. He was always sick.
• 17:31
  He had migraines that left him blinded and vomiting.
• 17:34
  These headaches existed all throughout his childhood and
• 17:37
  didn't stop until the 90s. That said, I'm sure you weren't
• 17:43
  surprised when I tell you that he did absolutely horribly in
• 17:45
  school. He was always sick, could never
• 17:47
  pay attention in class. His mother did his best to help
• 17:50
  him, but he was almost functionally illiterate, to the
• 17:53
  point where Ruby got him a professional tutor at 10 years
• 17:56
  old just to try and help him learn the basics.
• 17:58
  It didn't really help. He entered high school doing
• 18:03
  just as poorly as he'd done in elementary.
• 18:05
  He was only really happy when he transferred to to Dominguez High
• 18:08
  School in Compton, and he was allowed to enroll in a work
• 18:11
  study program, which when he could make a little money
• 18:13
  working in the afternoons, what he did in work study was auto
• 18:17
  shop repair. And that was the thing that
• 18:20
  really connected for him. He couldn't really read, but he
• 18:23
  was really good at fixing a car, and his knowledge of cars was
• 18:26
  actually how he made friends and how he even met girls.
• 18:29
  He learned to drive at 7 years old from his dad, and by 14 his
• 18:32
  dad had given him a car. And you're giving me that look,
• 18:35
  Brian, But apparently he just took two understanding cars from
• 18:40
  a very young age. Look, I don't know if I told you
• 18:44
  the story. Like I when I first got into a,
• 18:48
  back when I was like, I don't know, five years old or
• 18:50
  something, I took my parents car.
• 18:55
  Like they left me in the car for like a minute and I just.
• 19:00
  I just knew. I knew how to shift the gears.
• 19:03
  I knew how to get in. I drove the car like a couple of
• 19:06
  feet before they ran and caught me and stopped the story.
• 19:10
  This is great, OK? So you were in the same position
• 19:13
  as Lonnie, he at 7 years old. He knew how to move the pedals
• 19:17
  and now he probably couldn't see, so that was dangerous.
• 19:20
  But by 14, his dad had was letting him like, use the car
• 19:25
  and drive it around the neighborhood.
• 19:27
  And listen, I don't know if you remember high school Brian, but
• 19:30
  having a car means you are that bitch.
• 19:34
  You are the king if you have a car in high school.
• 19:39
  Oh my God, you're. And he had one in freshman year
• 19:44
  come. On Oh yeah, Lucky.
• 19:46
  I think I got my first car when I was like 1617, so.
• 19:49
  So he learned how to use not just the fact that he had a car
• 19:54
  but other skills too, to get people to like him.
• 19:56
  He knew how to make the girls laugh.
• 19:57
  He had his heart set and a girl named Kate from elementary
• 20:00
  school. The two had met when they were
• 20:02
  eight years old and got together in 8th grade, lost their
• 20:05
  virginity together and stayed together for a year, which is
• 20:08
  pretty good for a young relationship.
• 20:11
  In 9th grade though, they broke up.
• 20:13
  He dated A fellow 9th grader named Shannon until she moved at
• 20:15
  the end of the year, and Lonnie then took the time to spread the
• 20:19
  rumor. That the reason why Shannon had
• 20:22
  to move was that he got her pregnant and that's why her
• 20:25
  parents left town. It was all nice until you said
• 20:30
  that guy. Yeah, he's with the next three
• 20:32
  years of his life. Having fun, fixing cars, flirt
• 20:35
  my girls, dating a couple of them, having a great time.
• 20:38
  Being a young guy. From the outside, it seemed like
• 20:40
  he was a good kid. And that all kind of stopped in
• 20:43
  1969. He got arrested twice for Grand
• 20:45
  Theft Auto and then once in 1970 for burglary.
• 20:49
  He got expelled from Dominguez two weeks before graduation for
• 20:53
  fighting and actually didn't finish school.
• 20:55
  He worked at a grocery store packing things in boxes for a
• 20:58
  couple months, and his dad was like, hey you, you should do
• 21:01
  something, maybe join the military.
• 21:06
  So in July 26th, 1971, he joined the US Army and he went to basic
• 21:10
  training at Fort Ford in Monterey Bay, California.
• 21:15
  His first appointment was January 1972 at the 71st Air
• 21:18
  Defense Artillery at the Kelly Barracks in Stuttgart, Germany.
• 21:25
  Like many young soldiers who we have learned about over the last
• 21:30
  year and change, what what do the young soldiers like to do?
• 21:34
  Brian I. Don't know fresh, remember.
• 21:42
  What do you like to do, Brittany?
• 21:43
  I like to be prostitutes while they're in other countries.
• 21:45
  Oh. God and.
• 21:49
  All of them. It's in the past.
• 21:53
  It was real prolific. I wouldn't say modern day.
• 21:55
  That's the thing to do now. People got tender and grinder
• 21:59
  and can just meet people and have a good time for free.
• 22:03
  But in old days, people would, you know, get that night off,
• 22:08
  head out to the city, pick up, you know, listen, it was easier
• 22:13
  to pick up a hottie for like $100 than to talk to somebody.
• 22:19
  And it might not work. Yeah, okay okay.
• 22:25
  But regardless, Lonnie got into prostitution.
• 22:29
  He did indeed pick up an STD like some of our other friends
• 22:32
  in the past and the military is also where things escalated in
• 22:39
  regards to diversity. That escalated happened on April
• 22:44
  17th, 1974. It was 12:30 AM when he and two
• 22:49
  other soldiers attacked a 17 year old girl known only in
• 22:54
  court records as Ingrid W Ingrid had just left her boyfriend's
• 22:58
  house and was waiting to catch a train at the Zuffin Hossen train
• 23:00
  station at the city to the city of Asburg.
• 23:05
  When they first approached Ingrid, she wasn't really
• 23:07
  scared. She was like, oh, they need
• 23:09
  directions. So she gave them directions.
• 23:12
  But she said one man grabbed her by the shoulders, dragged her
• 23:14
  into the back seat of the car. That man put a butcher knife to
• 23:17
  her throat and told the girl I'll kill you.
• 23:19
  The three soldiers drove her to an empty field where two of them
• 23:25
  took turns raping her at knifepoint.
• 23:27
  It took pictures of her as well. This attack went on for hours
• 23:31
  until dawn. In between the attacks, she
• 23:35
  tried to like, talk to the driver and humanize herself, you
• 23:41
  know, get him to help stop it. She did convince the guy to take
• 23:45
  her phone number, Like she talked him into thinking like
• 23:48
  that she liked him and she gave him the number and they did drop
• 23:53
  her off at home. Anger went home, showered, fell
• 23:57
  asleep for most of the day and they took a train to the police
• 24:00
  station and love Wicksburg to report them.
• 24:03
  The police assumed that she was a prostitute, but Ingrid
• 24:06
  demanded to have her report taken.
• 24:08
  She went home, I'm sure further traumatized by the police who
• 24:12
  didn't want to do their job. But then the police got another
• 24:15
  report from an 18 year old girl who reported that three African
• 24:19
  American men had attempted to kidnap her an hour before
• 24:24
  Ingrid's attack. Wow.
• 24:26
  Wow. Other situation.
• 24:28
  The other girl had been grabbed while she was buying cigarettes
• 24:31
  out of a machine because that's how they used to sell them.
• 24:33
  But a local resident had actually seen the attack, seen
• 24:37
  the grab, and that Lady started screaming and when they realized
• 24:42
  that they had been seen, they kind of shoved her out of the
• 24:44
  car. It was a Fiat and drove off.
• 24:48
  So now they had the 18 year old girl, the Witness and Ingrid.
• 24:53
  And so they actually called Ingrid back and we're like, can
• 24:56
  you tell us about those three guys again?
• 25:00
  Oh, now you want to hear? OK, and so then the Germany gave
• 25:03
  the description to the US Army. Crazy enough.
• 25:07
  The driver of the car calls Ingrid, and so she, the police
• 25:13
  and Ingrid set up a staying operation.
• 25:15
  She's like, I'll go on a date with you.
• 25:18
  Meet me at the train station where y'all were.
• 25:19
  Like where you saw me last night.
• 25:22
  They had it set up so that once Ingrid saw him and he got close
• 25:26
  enough to her, she would drop a handkerchief on the ground and
• 25:29
  then the police would grab him. The driver actually had a large
• 25:35
  knife hidden on him, and it would seem that he had plans to
• 25:40
  continue what his friends had started the night before.
• 25:44
  That driver was Lonnie Franklin Junior.
• 25:49
  He was taken into custody on May 5th, 1974, charged with rape and
• 25:53
  kidnapping of Ingrid W and the attempted kidnapping of the 18
• 25:56
  year old who escaped. Franklin said he hadn't done
• 25:59
  anything to Ingrid and he blames it on the other two guys.
• 26:02
  He said he'd just been driving his friends around who were
• 26:04
  drunk, that they tried to pick up a drunk girl on the street
• 26:06
  and help her out. When she screamed, they let her
• 26:09
  go and then they said one hour later Ingrid was hitchhiking and
• 26:12
  that they helped her out. He said that Ingrid offered
• 26:15
  herself to them for the ride home, but that he couldn't get
• 26:18
  an erection and instead the other two guys had consensual
• 26:22
  sex with her. The other two rapists told an
• 26:24
  entirely different story, which did not help anyone with their
• 26:27
  credibility. Of course, of course.
• 26:31
  The only truth of that thing from Lonnie was that he did have
• 26:34
  trouble with his erection. That's the only reason why he
• 26:36
  didn't rape her. He couldn't do it.
• 26:41
  Franklin's mom flew to Germany to be there for his trial, and
• 26:44
  they were that she was there for three months.
• 26:46
  Lonnie was convicted. So before actually say the
• 26:50
  conviction, there was a big hubbub with Germany and the US
• 26:53
  Army over this because the army has a tendency to go kind of
• 26:58
  lenient when stuff like this happens abroad, You know,
• 27:03
  they're like, oh, we'll handle this.
• 27:04
  We'll do it in house. And Germany was like, Nah, we
• 27:07
  don't trust you to give these three the right punishment and.
• 27:13
  So Germany actually said that they were not going to release
• 27:18
  these three men back to the US Army, and he was convicted on
• 27:21
  December 20th, 1974 and sentenced to three years and
• 27:24
  four months in German prison. His friends were given about 4
• 27:28
  1/2 years. Unfortunately, he got released
• 27:32
  from prison early in 1975. But before they actually sent
• 27:37
  him back to the US so that he could go through trial in the
• 27:39
  US, they decided to do a mental evaluation of him.
• 27:44
  He talked to them about his headaches and sickness.
• 27:46
  He had a lot of anxiety and depression, how he had gotten
• 27:50
  gonorrhea from a German prostitute. the US therapist
• 28:00
  that he talked to on base in Germany was just like He has no
• 28:05
  illness horrible enough to stop him from attending his court
• 28:07
  martial in the States. Send him home.
• 28:11
  So during the court martial he fought hard as a hell to prove
• 28:18
  that he didn't rape anybody and that that should matter to the
• 28:22
  court. And he was successful in doing
• 28:26
  that because they gave him a general discharge on May 5th,
• 28:30
  1976. And the difference between a
• 28:33
  dishonorable discharge and a general discharge is that if you
• 28:36
  are dishonorably discharged, that only are you not allowed to
• 28:39
  be in the military ever again. But you also lose all military
• 28:43
  benefits. They will not help you Afterward
• 28:45
  get a job, you do not have their health insurance.
• 28:48
  Afterward you get nothing. You're done.
• 28:51
  So that's what he was fighting for.
• 28:53
  He was fighting to keep the benefits of being a having been
• 28:58
  in the military. General Discharge just meant you
• 29:01
  are never allowed to be in the military ever again.
• 29:03
  Don't talk to us so. It's me.
• 29:09
  Got it. Yeah, leave us alone.
• 29:10
  That's the long and short of it. I'm sure there's actually some
• 29:14
  more nuance I don't understand because I know nothing about the
• 29:17
  military, but that's what I could at least glean from that.
• 29:20
  The other two culprits did receive dishonorable discharges
• 29:22
  because they had actually sexually assaulted the young
• 29:24
  woman. After the court martial, Lonnie
• 29:28
  moved back home to LA and he met his wife, Sylvia Lino, through
• 29:31
  his job at the LA Trade Technical College in 1977.
• 29:35
  Sylvia was 21 and Lonnie was 25. The relationship progressed
• 29:39
  rather quickly. They got married in 1978.
• 29:41
  They had their first child, Crystal, in December of 1978 and
• 29:44
  then son Christopher in August of 1981.
• 29:48
  During this time period, Lonnie had a lot of different jobs.
• 29:51
  He ran a gas station. He was a security guard, a truck
• 29:54
  driver. He even walked worked for the
• 29:56
  Office of Veteran Affairs as a patient scheduler trying to help
• 29:59
  other people in the military. He ended up working maintenance
• 30:02
  for a party company for a bit, but the life of working odd jobs
• 30:06
  meant that there was never any sability, and now he had a
• 30:09
  family to pay for and he needed those benefits.
• 30:12
  So he decided that the most logical and sensible choice was
• 30:15
  to join the LAPD. But he didn't want to be a cop.
• 30:18
  He just wanted the benefits of working for the cops.
• 30:22
  And so in 1981, he was hired as a garage attendant in the
• 30:25
  Central Division office. Within months, they gave him a
• 30:29
  raise to become a mechanical helper and work on the police
• 30:32
  vehicles. And it seemed like he was going
• 30:34
  to get the job that he had been working towards in, like in high
• 30:37
  school. But he quits in 1982 and he
• 30:42
  takes a job. Yeah, it makes no sense until
• 30:46
  you realize that he was trying to set up something, a con.
• 30:50
  So 1982, he quits the job for the LAPD and takes a job with
• 30:55
  the LA Sanitation Department as a garbage man.
• 30:58
  It did pay more and it offered a lot of overtime.
• 31:02
  But the weird thing is, is this is also when he starts filing
• 31:06
  injury claims, A lot of them and they all centered around his
• 31:13
  right arm and eventually he would quit citing an issue with
• 31:16
  his rotator cuff. And ultimately by the 90s he had
• 31:21
  filed so many reports that he had created enough claims and
• 31:25
  and doctors reports and things to say that he could get
• 31:27
  disability benefits. Oh, wow.
• 31:30
  Yep. So he laid the groundwork by
• 31:34
  constantly reporting whenever anything happened.
• 31:38
  And after he got those disability benefits that gave
• 31:43
  him a lot of time and the money to get in trouble because Sylvia
• 31:49
  had enough money to to run the household and take care of the
• 31:52
  kids. He he made his money running an
• 31:57
  illegal car repair service and then thus started the saga of
• 32:03
  Lonnie Franklin Junior cruising for prostitutes almost every
• 32:08
  single night in South Central LA.
• 32:13
  Like, I I don't have an issue with people engaging with sex
• 32:19
  workers by any means. I know lots of people who do
• 32:21
  that job, so I think it's totally valid.
• 32:24
  But I think that there's something weird when every
• 32:27
  single night that's what you're doing.
• 32:29
  And when his wife was working, he went out and did it, and when
• 32:33
  she wasn't working, he would lie and tell her that he had
• 32:37
  somewhere else to go. He was going to go visit his
• 32:39
  friends. It was always him going out
• 32:41
  looking for prostitutes. Every night.
• 32:44
  Yeah. I think that that's weird.
• 32:45
  It's it's definitely a form of a sex addiction, getting your
• 32:48
  serotonin through getting off. Also, he had to have been
• 32:52
  spending an absolute astronomical amount of money.
• 32:55
  Even with the cheapest of of people who are struggling on the
• 33:00
  street, you're that's still a couple $100 a week Sir.
• 33:07
  And I I mean he was also giving people drugs in exchange for
• 33:11
  favors so that's still money he had to pay.
• 33:13
  I mean like I wonder how much his wife didn't realize she was
• 33:17
  supplementing a very serious habit.
• 33:21
  It's not her fault. But I I would be so offended
• 33:24
  decades later to find out that all the money that I gave you to
• 33:27
  help you with your business, you were spending on harming women
• 33:31
  on the street. Cuz boy.
• 33:33
  Coincidentally, around the same time that those disability
• 33:35
  claims the first murder happened, 1985, Deborah Ronette
• 33:43
  Jackson was 29 years old. She was a really happy lady and
• 33:46
  she was super like, bright and bubbly.
• 33:48
  She did have a bit of a run in with drugs.
• 33:50
  She had gone to rehab in South Central and was trying to
• 33:53
  rebuild her life. She got into the party scene
• 33:56
  when she was younger, and like so many others, she came out of
• 33:59
  that with a drug dependency that had taken her children from her
• 34:02
  and left her with virtually nothing.
• 34:04
  After rehab, she got a job as a cocktail waitress and was making
• 34:07
  decent money. Unfortunately, Deborah's
• 34:10
  roommate, Beatrice Mason, was missing a paycheck and she was
• 34:13
  certain that Deborah had stolen it to buy coke.
• 34:15
  The two fought the entire weekend of August 2nd to the 4th
• 34:19
  in 1985 over the missing money. And when there was no solution,
• 34:23
  Beatrice just told Deborah she had to leave.
• 34:27
  But they were friends, so she dropped her off at another
• 34:29
  person's house on August 5th. That was Monday morning.
• 34:34
  As the day progressed, Beatrice still was mad.
• 34:38
  She stayed mad. And instead of picking up
• 34:40
  Deborah from the friend's house that night, when Deborah called
• 34:44
  her at around 7:00 PM, Beatrice was just like, let's just
• 34:48
  separate. We can't live together.
• 34:51
  She's like, I'll bring your stuff.
• 34:52
  I'll, she's like, I'll bag up all your stuff.
• 34:54
  I'll leave it with the neighbor. The first person to notice that
• 34:59
  Deborah was missing was her daughter Anyada.
• 35:02
  And that was because after Deborah went to rehab, she
• 35:07
  called her children every single day.
• 35:11
  By Friday, August 9th, 1985, the kids were in a real, like, upset
• 35:17
  the children's foster mother. The thing was, the foster mom
• 35:21
  was totally OK with Deborah visiting.
• 35:22
  It was actually a very, like, positive situation.
• 35:26
  They were aware that Deborah was trying to get her life on track,
• 35:29
  but there was a lot of stuff she had to do to fulfill those
• 35:31
  requirements and get the kids back full time.
• 35:34
  But she did get to visit them at the foster mom's house.
• 35:36
  But by the 9th, though, Foster mom was worried.
• 35:39
  Beatrice hadn't heard anything either.
• 35:41
  Everything just seemed off. Deborah's body was found on
• 35:46
  August 10th, lying against a Redwood fence, poorly hidden
• 35:50
  beneath an old carpet at Martin Luther King Blvd.
• 35:52
  And San Pedro St. in South Central.
• 35:55
  She was still wearing a purple sweater and blue jeans, but the
• 35:58
  shirt had been pulled up over her breasts and her pants were,
• 36:02
  like, poorly put on. She didn't have any underwear on
• 36:05
  at all, which we'll find out was part of her killer signature.
• 36:10
  However, she was covered in magnets, maggots signifying to
• 36:14
  the police that she had been there for a couple days at
• 36:17
  least. Right.
• 36:19
  Yeah. Now, unfortunately for Deborah,
• 36:22
  there was another killer in LA in 1985, and he wasn't targeting
• 36:26
  poor women. He was targeting the middle and
• 36:28
  upper class, had already killed 12 people, raped 15 women and
• 36:32
  children and they were calling him the Night Stalker.
• 36:36
  Why? This is like the last story,
• 36:39
  like two people attacking at the same time.
• 36:42
  There's like 4 serial killers in South Central over the course of
• 36:46
  the time where Lonnie Franklin Jr. is active.
• 36:49
  It is wild. Like here's the thing,
• 36:52
  California has the most serial killers by number and they have
• 36:56
  a huge population. But America's had about 3600
• 37:01
  serial killers total in our entire history. 1600 of them
• 37:04
  have come from California. Wow, the Seventies 80s and 90s
• 37:11
  were insane. Wow, I know, I know.
• 37:15
  The 70s. Were badly damned.
• 37:16
  He did not stop. But yes, so unfortunately for
• 37:21
  Deborah, the low income former drug addict from South South
• 37:24
  Central was lost in the flurry of news reports showing the
• 37:28
  composite sketch and psychological profile of the
• 37:30
  Night Stalker. I imagine Deborah's children fed
• 37:34
  a lot, like a lot of families who lost loved ones around the
• 37:36
  same time that Gabby Petito disappeared last year.
• 37:39
  Don't the people we love matter too?
• 37:41
  It's kind of sad to realize that absolutely nothing has changed.
• 37:46
  The LAP 77th Division, which is the area that covers this area
• 37:50
  of South Central, was understaffed, overworked, and
• 37:53
  they averaged about 130 murders a year for a staff of only 8
• 37:57
  homicide detectives. Dyer was the 58th unidentified
• 38:01
  woman to be found in 1985. She'd been shot three times in
• 38:04
  the chest with a 25 caliber pistol.
• 38:07
  They found alcohol and traces of cocaine in her system.
• 38:11
  Because of the decomp, they couldn't tell if she had been
• 38:13
  sexually assaulted. But spoilers.
• 38:20
  He sexually assaulted all of his victims.
• 38:25
  They learned from friends and fellow employees that Deborah
• 38:28
  have found an apartment and she had actually scheduled to go
• 38:30
  visit it. The last time she was seen alive
• 38:34
  was at work on August 7th when she picked up her paycheck.
• 38:37
  So the assumption there is that somewhere between August 7th and
• 38:41
  9th was when she was killed. That paycheck was not found on
• 38:45
  her. She may have actually put down
• 38:46
  the down payment on that new place, we're not sure.
• 38:50
  Unfortunately for Beatrice, the police fixated on the fight the
• 38:52
  two of them had and her before disappearance.
• 38:55
  They looked at her as a suspect. At first, Beatrice failed the
• 38:58
  polygraph because she was so angry with the police and.
• 39:02
  Like, why? How, Jerry, you blame me?
• 39:04
  Like, really? I mean, we had a fight.
• 39:05
  There's not enough to kill her over, right?
• 39:07
  I told her to leave. I didn't say I was good.
• 39:09
  Shoot her in the chest. Regardless, though, Beatrice
• 39:12
  provided her shoes and a DNA sample and also her fingerprints
• 39:18
  to prove that she had no connection.
• 39:23
  There wasn't much they had to go on.
• 39:25
  The case went cold, her family buried her and the most police
• 39:29
  could do was monitor crimes for a 25 caliber pistol and hope it
• 39:33
  will lead to finding the killer. That's.
• 39:36
  Just wait. Now in the midst of all these
• 39:41
  murders, we also have another serial killer that ultimately
• 39:44
  they called the South Side Slayer.
• 39:47
  Now the South Side Slayer stabbed and strangled his
• 39:49
  victims. But that is not one person.
• 39:54
  Two separate people have been arrested for those crimes, and
• 39:59
  there may have been other serial killers who were working at the
• 40:02
  same time who they put under the umbrella of the South Side
• 40:05
  Slayer. Oh my God, this is terrible.
• 40:09
  Yeah. Well, it's terrible for the
• 40:13
  families who are hoping to get some kind of help when this.
• 40:19
  I mean, they think there were like 6 serial killers working in
• 40:23
  LA at the same time, But regardless, in the middle of
• 40:29
  them researching and trying to find the South side player, they
• 40:32
  get a hit on a crime similar to Deborah's.
• 40:35
  Her name was Henrietta, right? People called her Cody.
• 40:38
  When the 34 year old went missing, she had also been
• 40:40
  struggling with drugs. Her stepfather had kicked her
• 40:42
  out the week prior, August 12th, 1986.
• 40:46
  She stayed with friends of her sister or friends and her sister
• 40:51
  or a random motel. Her younger sister would wait
• 40:55
  until their stepdad went to sleep and then sneak her in at
• 40:58
  night and then sneak her out in the morning.
• 41:03
  Henrietta had been a really wonderful mom to five kids, and
• 41:05
  she was a hard worker. Until there was a fire that took
• 41:08
  out her home and all of her belongings in the early 80s.
• 41:11
  Depression hit her really hard and she turned her drugs to
• 41:14
  cope. The 80s, of course, were the era
• 41:17
  of crack cocaine in the black community, and it very quickly
• 41:22
  robbed her of her entire life. Stop it, Siri, no one told you.
• 41:34
  Soon as I saw the little box pop up, I knew what it was doing.
• 41:37
  No Siri. Her family didn't want to let
• 41:42
  her stay there because if you have any experience with people
• 41:45
  who are in the midst of a direct dependency, they steal.
• 41:48
  And like so many people who watch someone fade with an
• 41:53
  addiction, it's very much hopelessness as you watch the
• 41:56
  person you love become impossible to reach.
• 42:01
  Henrietta's body was found just before noon on August 12th of
• 42:05
  1986. Her body was hidden under an old
• 42:07
  mattress and blanket on West Vernon Ave. where a lot of
• 42:10
  homeless people stayed. Just like Deborah, she'd been
• 42:13
  shot in the chest at close range with a 25 caliber pistol.
• 42:17
  So close that there was gunshot residue within the wounds.
• 42:21
  Just like Deborah, they found cocaine in her system, but they
• 42:24
  also found morphine and codeine as well.
• 42:27
  If people don't know, that's a very typical drink that people
• 42:31
  make. If you listen to rap music from
• 42:34
  the old days, they do call it the lean.
• 42:37
  Lean syrup. It's a mixture of codeine and
• 42:42
  morphine and a drink. I do remember that song sipping
• 42:46
  that syrup. Yep.
• 42:49
  As a child, I didn't know what that meant.
• 42:52
  Love. They're drinking Maple syrup.
• 42:54
  I was like, why are they drinking the syrup?
• 42:56
  I don't understand. Those Maple syrup.
• 42:59
  Unlike Deborah, though, it appears if and Henrietta had an
• 43:03
  opportunity to fight back. Her attacker beat the crap out
• 43:07
  of her. There was blood all over her
• 43:09
  mouth, nose, cheeks. There was even blood in her ear.
• 43:14
  Also, the killer had shoved a part of a man's long sleeve
• 43:17
  shirt in her throat, like in her mouth to try and gag her.
• 43:21
  Her white polo shirt was pulled up above her chest, Her shorts
• 43:25
  were inject. Her shoes, underwear and her
• 43:28
  identification were all gone. At first, it didn't seem like a
• 43:33
  lot was going to happen. But on August 29th, the Lapd's
• 43:36
  Scientific Investigation Division connected the bullets
• 43:39
  from Henrietta's chest to the same that killed Deborah.
• 43:43
  This wasn't a speculation anymore, and as far as people
• 43:48
  don't know, the the way that they connect bullets is that the
• 43:51
  barrel of every gun is distinctive and different, and
• 43:55
  so as the bullet leaves its case and comes.
• 44:00
  Out of the gun, there are striations that like cuts that
• 44:05
  go into the bullet that are unique to the barrel of the gun,
• 44:09
  and they compare the bullets from each victim and if they
• 44:12
  have identical striations, that's how they know that these
• 44:16
  bullets were all fired from the same gun.
• 44:21
  This would be the only thing that links these killings
• 44:24
  together. For a moment, the police think
• 44:29
  they have The killer turns out to be a bad lead from an
• 44:31
  informant. The guy's name was Dennis
• 44:34
  Pinkney, and he was a bad guy. He was overheard by the
• 44:38
  informant bragging about shooting a woman who didn't give
• 44:42
  him a blowjob. And then apparently he attacked
• 44:45
  her. He shot her and shoved her
• 44:47
  panties in her mouth like he said that in public.
• 44:51
  And so the informant was like, that's your guy.
• 44:54
  I was at the hotel and I heard him talking about it.
• 44:58
  So the LA County District Attorney charges Pinckney with
• 45:00
  the murder of Henrietta, but while he's in LA County Jail,
• 45:03
  another woman gets killed. Pinckney was a scumbag who did
• 45:08
  kill a woman, but he wasn't the one they were looking for.
• 45:11
  And now we have a third murder to look into.
• 45:15
  This one was different though. A 911 dispatch got a call about
• 45:20
  a man dropping a woman's body on January 10th, 1987, just after
• 45:25
  midnight, the caller said. It was on 1346 E 56th St. in an
• 45:31
  alley. The guy was in a blue and white
• 45:32
  Dodge van. He even had the license plate
• 45:35
  number. The caller told them that the
• 45:37
  man had dropped a woman's body out of his vehicle, throwing a
• 45:40
  gas tank on top of her, and when 911 asked who he was, the guy
• 45:45
  laughed and said I'm staying anonymous, I know too many
• 45:47
  people and he hung up. Yes, as you should.
• 45:55
  When the police arrive about 20 minutes later, they find Barbara
• 45:58
  Ware, half covered in black plastic bags and cardboard
• 46:01
  boxes. The gas tank was used to kind of
• 46:04
  weigh down all the crap covering her.
• 46:06
  She's wearing Gray jeans and a long sleeve white cardigan with
• 46:08
  a black halter top underneath, just like Henrietta and Barbara.
• 46:13
  Blood on her face nose. Her right eye was swollen shut.
• 46:17
  She still had hair curlers in her hair.
• 46:20
  Well, he looks for Barbara's identity.
• 46:21
  The police tried to track down the van through the license
• 46:23
  plate number. It belonged to a church, and it
• 46:25
  was used to pick up and take home patrons.
• 46:28
  That night, the night that Barbara was found, the church
• 46:31
  was actually having a lockin. And so the driver was there with
• 46:35
  all the people in the church. By the following morning.
• 46:39
  They knew her name, Barbara Bethuneware.
• 46:42
  She had just turned 23 years old.
• 46:44
  Barbara had a hard life. Her mom died when she was 12.
• 46:48
  She'd never handled it well. And when she and her brother
• 46:50
  moved in with their very strict Catholic dad.
• 46:53
  Things didn't go well either. Billy Senior tried to control
• 46:56
  Barbara. She rebelled, got into fights,
• 46:58
  got expelled. Honestly, she really needed
• 47:01
  therapy, but it was the 70s. And who was doing that?
• 47:05
  Her dad was known to try and beat her with a belt to subdue
• 47:08
  her, but that doesn't work. They ended up sending her to her
• 47:11
  grandparents in Texas, but that's where she got pregnant at
• 47:14
  16. And then she decided she was
• 47:17
  moving back to LA. In 1981, after her daughter was
• 47:20
  born, she started using. Got arrested for theft and
• 47:24
  solicitation in 82 when she was just 18 years old.
• 47:27
  By 1985, Barbara actually took a handful of pills, turned on the
• 47:33
  gas stove in her house, and ended up hospitalized in the
• 47:37
  hospital. Barbara realized that if she
• 47:41
  didn't work harder on quitting drugs, she was going to lose her
• 47:44
  daughter. And so she actually really
• 47:46
  worked hard for the next six months.
• 47:48
  But by 1986, she was using again.
• 47:50
  And then in 1987, she was gone. Barbara's stepfather, who might
• 47:57
  have not been the best parent, but he absolutely cared about
• 48:00
  the fact that she was gone. He took to the streets.
• 48:03
  He started talking to people, drug dealers, drug doers, and
• 48:09
  talking to people and trying to figure out like, was this a bad
• 48:11
  drug deal? Does she owe somebody money like
• 48:14
  this? Wouldn't be the first time that
• 48:15
  that happened. He ended up paying off people to
• 48:18
  get people to talk to him, but he did learn that Barbara wasn't
• 48:22
  clean, but she wasn't out of control like she was before.
• 48:27
  On the day of Barbara's funeral, the LAPD Science Investigation
• 48:32
  Division did determine that she was shot with the same gun that
• 48:35
  killed Henrietta and Deborah. Now I know before that I said
• 48:39
  that Dennis Pinckney could not have killed Barbara because he
• 48:42
  was in prison, but that did not stop the LAPD from trying to
• 48:45
  take him to court for Henrietta Wright.
• 48:48
  Are you serious? He absolutely did.
• 48:51
  They had that preliminary hearing March 29th, 1987, and
• 48:56
  just after the preliminary hearing, another body was found.
• 49:01
  So this was me too, right? I did this one too.
• 49:02
  Right, right. I'm sure Dennis is like
• 49:04
  wallowing out at this point. On April 16th, 1987, two
• 49:08
  employees at the Chase Appliances on Southwestern Ave.
• 49:11
  cut across the parking lot behind their job and saw a white
• 49:14
  T-shirt watered up on the ground about 15 feet from a dumpster.
• 49:17
  One of the men picked up the shirt, he noticed it had blood
• 49:20
  on it, immediately dropped it, and then kind of leaned the look
• 49:23
  in the dumpster and saw Bernita sparks.
• 49:25
  She had been tossed head first in the dumpster and her blue
• 49:28
  Levi's with a black button up shirt.
• 49:30
  There was blood in her face, nose and mouth.
• 49:32
  Her killer had very hastily redressed her without her
• 49:35
  underwear, and of course there was gunshot residue all over
• 49:38
  that shirt. Bernita had last been seen at
• 49:42
  10:30 the night before. She said goodnight to her mother
• 49:46
  and she told her she told her mom, Eva and Aunt Eunice that
• 49:49
  she was going to the liquor store.
• 49:51
  When Eunice woke up that morning on the 16th, the door was still
• 49:55
  unlocked. The family didn't know who would
• 49:58
  want to harm Bernita. And she was murdered just days
• 50:03
  before she was set to start working at the 92nd Street
• 50:05
  Elementary School as a lunch monitor.
• 50:09
  She was 26, and she didn't really match the other victims.
• 50:12
  In term of addiction, she might have done a little bit here and
• 50:15
  there, but she wasn't an addict. She had been arrested twice in
• 50:19
  1983, once for evidence destruction and the other for
• 50:23
  possession of a controlled substance.
• 50:27
  But that was just, you know, having a little bit of drugs on.
• 50:30
  Yet the police actually went door to door knocking to see if
• 50:36
  anyone had seen Marnita. A woman named Rosa Harris, who
• 50:40
  lived in an apartment complex that faced the alley where they
• 50:43
  found her, told the police that she heard someone screaming in
• 50:47
  that morning. And she said she saw a man with
• 50:50
  a Jerry curl, a yellow shirt and light pants leaving the alley.
• 50:55
  The police were definitely sure they were dealing with the same
• 50:57
  guy, but it was almost entirely too much for them to handle
• 51:00
  because they were dealing with the South Side Slayer and these
• 51:04
  these crimes are all coming in at the same time and the state
• 51:10
  is threatening to, so this isn't necessarily the right thing.
• 51:15
  But they have been given money for a South Side Slayer task
• 51:19
  force and so some of that money was being used.
• 51:22
  Around the rest of the precinct because they were so underfunded
• 51:26
  and so they're worried that they're going to lose that
• 51:28
  funding because they already don't have enough funding.
• 51:32
  Right. Well, yeah.
• 51:35
  Yeah, that's that's a shitty area to be in.
• 51:37
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 51:41
  Now, July 6th, 1987, the police informant lets them know that
• 51:46
  she lied about Pinckney. Again, he did absolutely shoot
• 51:52
  another person, but she actually told the police that she thinks
• 51:57
  it was her boyfriend, Jimmy Lewis who had killed Henrietta
• 52:00
  because and she said she lied because Jimmy said he was going
• 52:03
  to kill her and her children, so she just told them somebody
• 52:07
  else's name. Now Lewis did on a 25, but it
• 52:11
  had been confiscated during a previous arrest by the Highway
• 52:15
  Patrol. So the LAPD requested that gun.
• 52:17
  They tested it on July 14th. It didn't match, of course.
• 52:21
  July 13th, Ping Me's case finally gets dismissed against
• 52:24
  him. Now we're back to the drawing
• 52:26
  board. We got no suspects and we got
• 52:28
  nothing until four months pass. Mary Lowe is our next victim and
• 52:40
  she was 26 years old on October 29th, 1987.
• 52:44
  She had been easily using for the last decade.
• 52:47
  She had a really strange, tumultuous relationship with a
• 52:49
  man named Gino King. For the majority of that time,
• 52:53
  the two were on again, off again, with Mary kind of showing
• 52:55
  up every couple weeks, and she'd stay with him for a few nights
• 52:58
  or weeks to be off again. Gino believed that she was
• 53:01
  turning tricks, but he never really questioned it.
• 53:04
  She did a stint in Civil Brand Institute, a women's prison in
• 53:07
  LA. And sometime between her time
• 53:10
  and Sybil in 1987, she got into crack.
• 53:13
  And that was really the end of this young woman who just wanted
• 53:17
  to have fun. On October 29th, Gino and Mary
• 53:21
  had gotten into a fight, and so she asked to go to her mom's
• 53:26
  house. Gino took her to her mom's
• 53:28
  house. Her name was Betty.
• 53:29
  And everyone there was like, listen, you don't look good.
• 53:31
  You should stay off the streets. Go stay at Gino's house.
• 53:34
  Like he wants to take care of you.
• 53:39
  Mary wasn't having that, and she actually said to her parents,
• 53:42
  I'm going to live and die on these streets.
• 53:45
  And two days later they found her.
• 53:49
  We do know that she was out on Halloween celebrating a friend's
• 53:51
  birthday at the Love Trap Bar on Western Ave.
• 53:54
  She called Gino at about 11:45 PM to pick her up, but Gino was
• 53:58
  heading to Austin, TX to see his father, who was dying in the
• 54:02
  hospital, and so a booty call really wasn't on his mind that
• 54:05
  night. The birthday girl, Diane
• 54:08
  Robinson, saw Mary at 1:15 talking to two black men from
• 54:11
  the club. At 10:00 AM on November 1st, a
• 54:15
  father and son were walking through an alley and they called
• 54:18
  it in. Just like the other victims.
• 54:20
  Her clothes were pulled up and down.
• 54:21
  She'd been shot at close range of the 25, had cocaine and
• 54:24
  alcohol in her system. The police followed a bunch of
• 54:28
  false leads and even investigated the owner of the
• 54:30
  bar. Every person they looked into
• 54:32
  either had a rock solid alibi or didn't have the weapon they were
• 54:35
  looking for. The LAPD ends up cutting the
• 54:38
  funding to the South Side Slayer case to make space for Pope John
• 54:43
  Paul the Second visiting Los Angeles.
• 54:49
  You know how I feel about stuff like that.
• 54:51
  I just think, wow, you don't know how many active serial
• 54:54
  killers you have in this city right now, but we're going to
• 54:57
  cut the funding to find them. It's for the Pope to visit and.
• 55:02
  Send all the cops to protect the Pope.
• 55:06
  I mean. Listen the the cops at that
• 55:10
  precinct of their boss, and it wasn't that great because
• 55:14
  Margaret Prescott and the Black Coalition fighting black serial
• 55:18
  murders was not happy with it and was quoted as saying is this
• 55:22
  was another community in which these murders had happened.
• 55:25
  You wouldn't have the lackadaisical attitude that you
• 55:28
  see on the part of the police. We are not convinced they've
• 55:31
  covered everything. You ain't wrong.
• 55:35
  You ain't wrong. Right.
• 55:36
  I was like, go ahead, Margaret, you ain't wrong.
• 55:40
  Oh God. On top of the South Central
• 55:43
  Slayer, there's an unparalleled gang violence happening in the
• 55:46
  area too. I don't know if you know this,
• 55:48
  listeners, but in the 1980s, this was the time of the LA gang
• 55:51
  wars, with which amounted to about 70,000 gang members as
• 55:57
  well as young kids who wanted to be in the gangs.
• 55:59
  They called them wannabes. All fighting simultaneously in
• 56:03
  LA. Of those people, about 25,000 of
• 56:06
  them were young black men split between the Crips and the
• 56:09
  Bloods. The police were absolutely
• 56:11
  overwhelmed by fights, robbery, shootings, random murders, Dr.
• 56:14
  Bys, you have that to contend with.
• 56:18
  On top of the serial murders, which we've now been undefunded,
• 56:24
  and this one's still going on. It hasn't stopped yet, thank
• 56:28
  God. So wait.
• 56:30
  So wait, wait, wait. So wait.
• 56:32
  Hold on. So the Pope he visits for like,
• 56:35
  what, a day or so? Right.
• 56:36
  Like I think when he was in Philly, he was here for a week,
• 56:40
  okay. So after he leaves, does the
• 56:42
  funding go back to? Them or they don't get the
• 56:44
  funding. Of course not.
• 56:46
  They don't get the funding back. Okay Okay.
• 56:48
  They use the money that they probably would have given them
• 56:50
  for the rest of the year. To fund all of the people who
• 56:54
  probably had to the overtime to stay and keep watch over him and
• 56:58
  control the mass amount of people who wanted to see him
• 57:01
  while he's in his little Pope bubble.
• 57:04
  Yeah, yeah, that's not cool, OK? I was just, I was just like they
• 57:08
  get the funding back, right? No.
• 57:10
  OK. No, it doesn't happen, OK.
• 57:12
  Never goes that way. In the middle of that are these
• 57:14
  sporadic yet very violent murders, all related to a 25
• 57:18
  caliber pistol. Unfortunately for Lucretia
• 57:20
  Jefferson, this was a huge murder that took place the same
• 57:23
  night. There was another huge murder
• 57:25
  that took place the same night that she was kidnapped and
• 57:27
  killed on January 30th, 1988. In fact, the gang crime that
• 57:33
  happened that night was so big that there was virtually no
• 57:37
  mention of Lucretia in the media at all.
• 57:40
  What we do know about her and the murder that happened to her
• 57:44
  is partially because of Christine Pelsack.
• 57:50
  Who did The Who, who, who sought out all of these family members
• 57:56
  to learn about these people because there there's virtually
• 57:58
  no mention of Lacretia. But what we do know about her is
• 58:04
  through her friends and family who spoke to Christine, was that
• 58:07
  Lacretia was known for being in the drugs.
• 58:09
  They called her LA Cretia because she was a really big
• 58:12
  partier and she would spend all her weekends at the Players
• 58:14
  Choice or the Total Experience clubs.
• 58:18
  Her family wanted more and better for her, and she would
• 58:20
  always tell her mom. Wanda, you can't tell me what to
• 58:23
  do. Oh my God.
• 58:26
  From a very young age, she was super outgoing.
• 58:28
  She loves singing, dancing, roller skating.
• 58:30
  She had dreams. We all do.
• 58:33
  She spent most of her life with her dad, James, in Kansas and
• 58:36
  moved back to LA. And when she moved back to LA in
• 58:39
  the 80s, she got caught in the crack of epidemic.
• 58:43
  The night before she died, she stopped by her mom's house with
• 58:46
  a strange man. And then went to her friend's
• 58:48
  house on Florence Blvd. And then stopped by another
• 58:51
  friend's house, Jody, at 9:30 PM.
• 58:54
  Now Jody's apartment building was a popular spot for people to
• 58:58
  score. Apparently a lot of drug dealers
• 58:59
  live there. Krisha left at 11:30 PM and an
• 59:04
  hour later Jody heard her outside yelling at some guy.
• 59:09
  She was sitting in the passenger seat of a white 4 door Mercedes
• 59:13
  that had racing stripes on the side and there was a black man
• 59:16
  in the driver's seat. So Jody was like, come back
• 59:20
  inside and Lucretia actually listened.
• 59:25
  Yay. She came back inside very
• 59:27
  obviously high. She told her friend.
• 59:31
  She told Jody that the guy had threatened her with a knife and
• 59:33
  that's why she was yelling at him.
• 59:36
  The two of them just kind of hung out, fell asleep on the
• 59:39
  couch, just talking and you know, to the to the morning and
• 59:43
  when Jody's daughter's alarm woke them both up.
• 59:47
  Lacretia left her friend's house and they found her in alley four
• 59:51
  year 4 hours later just 4 miles away from Jody's house.
• 59:57
  The two people who discovered the body called 911.
• 1:00:00
  She was wearing a maroon dress. Her underwear was gone.
• 1:00:03
  There was no physical trauma here.
• 1:00:06
  He might have ambushed her. However, her I D was gone.
• 1:00:09
  There was a crack pipe in the coat of her pocket, like the
• 1:00:12
  pocket coat. I wrote.
• 1:00:14
  I wrote the code of her pocket and my notes.
• 1:00:18
  That, that is. In her coat pocket.
• 1:00:21
  The police assumed that she had Od'd and somebody had just
• 1:00:24
  dumped her. And so they kind of sent her to
• 1:00:27
  the LA County Medical Examiner's Office to just have them do a
• 1:00:30
  once over, you know, bag and tag.
• 1:00:33
  But the problem was, Dr. Susan Selzer pulled her clothes off
• 1:00:37
  and realized that there were 225 caliber slugs in her chest.
• 1:00:41
  And called the police back. She started staying out late,
• 1:01:13
  not coming home. Like, I think you need to see
• 1:00:44
  that just like everybody else, she had been drinking and doing
• 1:00:48
  cocaine when she died. So our next victim was Alicia
• 1:00:59
  Alexander, also referred to as Monique.
• 1:01:03
  Monique's decline wasn't as rabid as the other women we've
• 1:01:06
  discussed so far. In 12th grade she became really
• 1:01:09
  unhappy and dropped out of. Sometimes her parents said she'd
• 1:01:15
  just get up and leave in the middle of the night.
• 1:01:18
  On July 5th, 1988, she got arrested for possession of a
• 1:01:21
  controlled substance, and she started eating a man about 10
• 1:01:25
  years older than her the night she went missing.
• 1:01:28
  Her parents assumed this was just Monique being Monique, but
• 1:01:33
  she usually wasn't gone for more than a day or two.
• 1:01:36
  Her boyfriend, Louis hadn't seen her since Friday, September 2nd.
• 1:01:39
  And her mother, Mary, was worried.
• 1:01:41
  And then Lewis showed up at the house to pick her up for a date.
• 1:01:45
  And then everyone kind of realized nobody knew where she
• 1:01:48
  was. Lewis actually asked the
• 1:01:50
  question that nobody was ready to hear.
• 1:01:52
  But perhaps because he was a little bit older and he saw
• 1:01:56
  Manique for who she really was, he was just like, have you
• 1:01:59
  checked the Morgues? That's a bad sign already.
• 1:02:06
  I mean, I think the reality was that her boyfriend knew that she
• 1:02:09
  was doing drugs and her parents, Our parents always have the most
• 1:02:12
  idealistic vision of us. LAPD was on the scene.
• 1:02:16
  Well, a lot of them do. Not everybody, but September
• 1:02:21
  11th 1988 there were four boys between the ages of seven and 13
• 1:02:27
  who are walking a dog through an alley and saw the very rotten
• 1:02:30
  corpse that ended up being. And pretty quickly.
• 1:02:37
  And they were able to tell that she'd been dead for several
• 1:02:39
  days. She was nude.
• 1:02:41
  Her shirt was twisted around her neck, her ID was gone, and there
• 1:02:44
  were small caliber bullet holes in under her left breast.
• 1:02:48
  She was so decomposed that she was actually labeled Jane Doe 59
• 1:02:52
  until 1 lone fingerprint was connected to her arrest near her
• 1:02:56
  18th birthday. She tested positive for cocaine
• 1:02:59
  and alcohol. It was just the same as every
• 1:03:02
  other murder and they were no closer to solving it.
• 1:03:05
  The police realized that the position of the bullets the
• 1:03:07
  killer showed that the killer was always to the left of the
• 1:03:10
  victims and he didn't stray out of a very small kill zone.
• 1:03:14
  We're talking about like one or two mile radius.
• 1:03:20
  Monique's death gave them another eyewitness who had seen
• 1:03:23
  Monique get into a Ford Pinto or Chevrolet Vega that had a loud
• 1:03:27
  muffler and tinted windows at about 11:00 PM on September 6th,
• 1:03:32
  the corner of 59th and Normandy Ave.
• 1:03:35
  They look for the car, but nothing came from that.
• 1:03:40
  Now let's phase over to Lonnie and what he's been doing other
• 1:03:44
  than what we know is killing these poor women.
• 1:03:47
  Lonnie is building the perfect persona.
• 1:03:49
  He is a loving, doting father who always helps his neighbors.
• 1:03:54
  He's giving to the needy, fixing the elderly people's cars in the
• 1:03:59
  neighborhood whenever they need it.
• 1:04:02
  Never seen smoking any kind of drugs.
• 1:04:04
  Of course not. No, not in public.
• 1:04:07
  He even was telling people that he was a teetotaler and we
• 1:04:10
  hadn't heard that term in a while, right?
• 1:04:13
  No. Not that's that's like the old,
• 1:04:16
  like early 1900s phrases. But essentially that's the
• 1:04:20
  equivalent of what we might call straight edge today.
• 1:04:23
  He had presented himself as his loving husband and no one would
• 1:04:27
  ever even doubt that he took care of his wife Sylvia.
• 1:04:30
  He's a pillar of the community. Well, the truth was, Lonnie had
• 1:04:34
  developed a serious taste for prostitutes.
• 1:04:37
  He had at least four separate serious girlfriends during the
• 1:04:42
  years He was committing all these murders now because they
• 1:04:46
  weren't enough to really pull his appetite.
• 1:04:49
  He saw prostitutes often, and apparently bragged about it to
• 1:04:52
  most of his friends. He also kept photos of these
• 1:04:55
  conquests, and he referred to them by their breast size and
• 1:04:59
  shape, like droopy titties, or by a body part in general, like
• 1:05:03
  big legs. He kept all these photos in
• 1:05:08
  which he had removed the not. Either he hadn't photographed
• 1:05:11
  the woman's head or cut them off in a camper on their property or
• 1:05:16
  in his garage. He also kept a bag of bras and
• 1:05:19
  underwear that he told his friends that he bought for his
• 1:05:22
  girlfriends, but I think those were trophies of his.
• 1:05:27
  Victim. Yeah, sounds like.
• 1:05:30
  It he even referred to the women he was sleeping with as his
• 1:05:33
  trophies and he would stop by his friends homes with them,
• 1:05:37
  like in the car with him. He was bold.
• 1:05:41
  And he gained more confidence. He started telling women he was
• 1:05:44
  a pornographer. He convinced them to pose for
• 1:05:47
  his collection. He was also known for showing
• 1:05:52
  off a 25 caliber pistol that he kept in his front pocket at all
• 1:05:57
  times. No.
• 1:05:59
  No. I'm sorry.
• 1:06:02
  No, no. In the news now did they say
• 1:06:06
  about the gun in the news? No, interestingly enough, they
• 1:06:11
  were worried because if you remember when we watched the
• 1:06:13
  Night Stalker case, when they gave too many details that one
• 1:06:18
  mayor gave the details of his shoes, he wore different shoes
• 1:06:21
  from that point. So the police were actually the
• 1:06:24
  police who were working this case were worried that if they
• 1:06:28
  released too many details about him, he would change up his MO.
• 1:06:33
  This caused a lot of just friction between the families of
• 1:06:38
  the victims and the homicide detectives, and the chief of
• 1:06:46
  LAPD actually were at odds about this.
• 1:06:49
  They were like, people need to know about this.
• 1:06:51
  We need to release details. That's what the chief wanted.
• 1:06:54
  But the homicide detectives were like, no, he's gonna change it
• 1:06:57
  up and then we're gonna lose him entirely.
• 1:06:59
  Yeah, sorry. All over again.
• 1:07:02
  Yeah, yeah, I get that. OK.
• 1:07:04
  Just just wondering. I do remember.
• 1:07:06
  I really understand. Yeah, I remember the Night
• 1:07:07
  Stalker. And I'm like, yeah, everyone the
• 1:07:09
  mayor. They're fucking.
• 1:07:11
  It's such a it's such a 5050 like you don't know because that
• 1:07:15
  bear, everyone was really mad at her because they were like we
• 1:07:18
  had his feet print in these specific, very distinctive
• 1:07:22
  shoes. At like 14 locations.
• 1:07:34
  Thanks a lot. And you mentioned those very
• 1:07:27
  specific shoes of which there were only like 100 sold in Los
• 1:07:31
  Angeles and now he's wearing new.
• 1:07:35
  Piece of shit. Yeah, because, I mean, if you
• 1:07:39
  remember, the Night Stalker was using multiple methods to kill
• 1:07:42
  people. He really didn't have a
• 1:07:43
  signature, proper method. Yeah, He didn't have a signature
• 1:07:47
  in terms of methodology. So the only thing they had in
• 1:07:52
  the beginning was the shoes and the fact that he just got caught
• 1:07:58
  a couple times and didn't seem to care.
• 1:08:00
  But regardless, now talking about Lonnie.
• 1:08:04
  Somebody who cruises for sex on pretty much a daily basis is
• 1:08:07
  bound to get arrested. And Lonnie really wasn't a
• 1:08:10
  stranger to police. In fact, he managed to keep a
• 1:08:13
  lot of these arrests away from his wife and he got arrested for
• 1:08:17
  Grand Theft. Burglary, carrying a loaded
• 1:08:20
  firearm, possession of burglary tools, and he managed to keep
• 1:08:25
  all of that away from his wife for several years.
• 1:08:29
  Eventually he can't. He gets in big trouble.
• 1:08:32
  But for a couple years he's just doing stuff and.
• 1:08:35
  His wife has no idea. Nope.
• 1:08:38
  Now here's the crazy thing about this.
• 1:08:40
  Despite all of this, though, the police never suspected a John of
• 1:08:44
  being the killer. Because most of the victims were
• 1:08:47
  not. Sex workers.
• 1:08:49
  There were maybe one or two who did a little bit of, you know,
• 1:08:53
  work to get drugs, but the majority of the victims weren't
• 1:08:56
  sex workers, so they didn't assume it was applying.
• 1:09:01
  Lonnie went unchecked and unafraid until November 20th,
• 1:09:05
  1988, when he tried to kill Anita Washington.
• 1:09:11
  Now Anita Washington was about to have a really terrible
• 1:09:15
  weekend. On Saturday, November 19th,
• 1:09:18
  1988, a 4.5 magnitude earthquake hit.
• 1:09:21
  The area. She had just gotten back into
• 1:09:23
  town from Louisiana, had gone to work where she did cleaning,
• 1:09:27
  shopping and chores for elderly people.
• 1:09:29
  She had two kids and she had secured a babysitter.
• 1:09:32
  So she was like, I'm not gonna little little earthquake ruin my
• 1:09:35
  night. Her plan was to go to her
• 1:09:38
  friend's house for a party and then go to go to her friend's
• 1:09:42
  house and then the three of them would leave and go to a party.
• 1:09:44
  It was in front of her husband. So as Anitra is walking, she's
• 1:09:49
  only lives a couple of blocks away from her friends.
• 1:09:51
  This man in an orange Ford Pinto with a racing stripe on the hood
• 1:09:55
  pulls up on her. And at first she's just like,
• 1:09:58
  oh, look at this weirdo, He's got glasses, he's giving off big
• 1:10:01
  dork vibes. And so he, like, yelled at her
• 1:10:05
  and she ignored him and she kept walking.
• 1:10:07
  And then he pulled up alongside of her and she was just like,
• 1:10:10
  listen, don't holler at me from a car.
• 1:10:13
  You have to get out and talk to me now, usually.
• 1:10:17
  For people who've lived in a big city, because I lived in Philly
• 1:10:19
  for a big chunk of my life, that usually stops them.
• 1:10:22
  They just ride on. But not in this case.
• 1:10:27
  Surprisingly, he got out of the car.
• 1:10:29
  He offered her a ride to her friend's house, and she was
• 1:10:31
  like, no, that's OK, I'm good. It's only a couple blocks away.
• 1:10:35
  And what Lonnie Franklin Jr. says next, I think completely
• 1:10:37
  explains his entire relationship with black women.
• 1:10:40
  And if I'm honest, if you want to make me mad, this is one of
• 1:10:44
  the things that triggers me. When black men say it and I
• 1:10:48
  instantly get pissed off, here's the exact quote.
• 1:10:51
  That's what's wrong with you black women.
• 1:10:53
  People can't be nice to you. Exactly.
• 1:10:56
  Exactly. Oh, it makes me so mad.
• 1:11:03
  Because it's a statement that harnesses all of the stereotypes
• 1:11:06
  of black women in it, towards us, with it.
• 1:11:08
  Because if you get mad now you're an angry black woman.
• 1:11:11
  Because we're not allowed righteous indignation, right?
• 1:11:13
  So what ends up happening is that you soften and you let this
• 1:11:16
  asshole run his game, or you give him your number and hands
• 1:11:20
  down, you always regret it. But the guy gets what he wanted
• 1:11:23
  by reminding you of how much the world hates you by going.
• 1:11:27
  At least I'm interested in you. Nobody else likes girls like
• 1:11:32
  you. She actually laughed.
• 1:11:34
  She softened. She was just like, wow, that
• 1:11:36
  took some courage to say that to my face.
• 1:11:39
  Yeah, we're punched in the face. She kind of took pity on the
• 1:11:42
  guy. She's a lot.
• 1:11:43
  Taller than him? He's short.
• 1:11:46
  She was like, he tried to get at her and she was like, it's only
• 1:11:49
  a couple blocks. What's the worst that could
• 1:11:50
  happen? Which is the same thing that
• 1:11:53
  women always say what second happen someone could try to
• 1:11:57
  kill. You that's.
• 1:12:01
  Exactly. Well as Anitra.
• 1:12:05
  Got in the car. She did notice.
• 1:12:07
  A lug nut wrench on the floor and the fact that his dashboard
• 1:12:10
  was cracked. She kind of ignored it and she
• 1:12:12
  told him where she was going. Almost immediately he went the
• 1:12:15
  wrong direction. He told her he had to get
• 1:12:17
  something from his uncle's house in only a couple minutes.
• 1:12:20
  He did stop at a house on 81st Street, but she said when he
• 1:12:23
  came back he was different. He called her by the wrong name
• 1:12:26
  and she told him That's not my name.
• 1:12:28
  He reached into the. Driver's side door and shot her
• 1:12:31
  point blank in the chest. She actually grabbed.
• 1:12:34
  The handle and was contemplating.
• 1:12:36
  Rolling out into the street. But he was like, I will shoot
• 1:12:38
  you again. He kept calling her the wrong
• 1:12:42
  name. He kept calling her.
• 1:12:42
  Brenda, she's She begged him to take her to the hospital.
• 1:12:46
  He was like, no, I can't do that, she told him.
• 1:12:49
  If I die, I'm gonna haunt you. I just love the yo and each her
• 1:12:56
  is dope. Sometime during the drive, she.
• 1:13:00
  Started to black out. And when she woke up, he was on
• 1:13:02
  top of her, pulling her skirt up.
• 1:13:04
  She was losing so much blood, though, that she couldn't stay
• 1:13:07
  awake during the attack. She remembers seeing the flash
• 1:13:10
  of a Polaroid camera. She remembers hearing the engine
• 1:13:13
  start, and she remembers him pushing her out onto the street
• 1:13:17
  and driving away. She was actually afraid to move
• 1:13:19
  at first, because she wasn't sure that he was done.
• 1:13:23
  Like now it's. Dark.
• 1:13:26
  She's very weak. She She's aware.
• 1:13:29
  Of where is she lives and the fact that nobody's gonna open
• 1:13:32
  the door for a gunshot victim in South Central.
• 1:13:35
  So bleeding to death, she walks the three blocks to her friend
• 1:13:38
  Linda's house and just starts yelling like help me open the
• 1:13:42
  door and collapses on the porch. Now Linda and her husband had
• 1:13:46
  left and gone to the party without her because they assumed
• 1:13:49
  she must have been doing something else.
• 1:13:51
  And we didn't have cell phones back then, so they didn't really
• 1:13:55
  have a way to. Connect with her.
• 1:13:58
  So by the time I need to got to the house, Linda and husband are
• 1:14:02
  already gone. When they get home at about 2:00
• 1:14:04
  AM on November 20th, they find Anitra in the field position
• 1:14:09
  bleeding Linda. I think her husband at first
• 1:14:13
  just thought like this was a random crime.
• 1:14:16
  And Linda noticed that her friend's underwear had been
• 1:14:18
  ripped and we're like hanging off of her leg.
• 1:14:21
  And Linda called the ambulance and gave them the heads up that
• 1:14:24
  this looked like a sex crime. And nature was rushed to the
• 1:14:28
  harbor. UCLA Medical Center in.
• 1:14:30
  Torrance, about 11 miles away. She had to be put in a
• 1:14:33
  compression jacket because her pressure was so low.
• 1:14:36
  She lost 20% of her blood volume and was absolutely going into
• 1:14:40
  like multi system shot, yeah. It took.
• 1:14:45
  Four days for the surgeons to actually.
• 1:14:47
  Stabilize her enough to do the surgery to remove the the bullet
• 1:14:52
  from her chest. It had very narrowly missed her
• 1:14:56
  heart. Once the LAPD.
• 1:14:59
  Got the slug they tested? Of course.
• 1:15:01
  It's. A match to Barbara Ware and
• 1:15:03
  Deborah Jackson had Rihanna Wright and Bernita Sparks and
• 1:15:05
  Mary Lowe and Monique Alexander and Lacretia Jefferson.
• 1:15:09
  This was the chance, however, that the LAPD had been looking
• 1:15:12
  for. She needed to survive so they
• 1:15:14
  could talk to her, right? Yes, save her life.
• 1:15:20
  They absolutely did when she came.
• 1:15:22
  She gave them a very good description of his face, his
• 1:15:25
  car. She told them exactly where they
• 1:15:27
  stopped for him because he said he had to pick up money on 81st
• 1:15:30
  St. She remembered everything, even
• 1:15:32
  the books that he had in his car that she saw when he dragged her
• 1:15:36
  into the back. She said that there were
• 1:15:38
  different kinds of mechanics, tools that were in the back,
• 1:15:41
  like the hatchback now. Anita was released on December
• 1:15:44
  7th and she immediately took the police to the store where she
• 1:15:49
  had been walking by when. They met and then showed them
• 1:15:53
  where they stopped. The police eventually got a
• 1:15:55
  warrant for that house on 81st St. on February 15th, 1989, But
• 1:16:00
  that owner had a different 25 caliber weapon and it wasn't the
• 1:16:03
  right one. It was such a good lead, went
• 1:16:08
  nowhere and the police didn't really have time to focus on it
• 1:16:14
  too much because the South Side Slayer was.
• 1:16:17
  Back to killing people again at the rate of about one woman a
• 1:16:20
  month, but they had the description and everything.
• 1:16:24
  They. Did and they put that up, but
• 1:16:26
  nobody came. Now the Slayer would be named in
• 1:16:29
  19. 93 as. Michael Hughes and Since death
• 1:16:32
  for the murders of Yvonne Coleman, 15.
• 1:16:35
  Vernon Wolmes, 36, Both of them killed in 1986.
• 1:16:38
  Harriet McKinley. 30 killed in 87 Teresa Ballard, 26, Brenda
• 1:16:42
  Bradley, 38 both in 1992, and then Terry Miles, 33 and Jamil
• 1:16:47
  Harrington both in 1993. It is believed that the actual
• 1:16:51
  Slayer, Michael Hughes, was responsible for more murders at
• 1:16:55
  the same time as the Grim Sleeper, but these seven were
• 1:16:58
  enough to get him the death penalty and keep him off the
• 1:17:00
  street for life. According to the LAPD, they
• 1:17:02
  believe that no less than six killers were active between 1980
• 1:17:06
  and 1999. And that's not a counting.
• 1:17:09
  For the rest of LA or the rest of California, what the fuck?
• 1:17:13
  Yes, South Central, what the? Fuck.
• 1:17:16
  Was going on. Now the attack on.
• 1:17:19
  Anitra was the. Last of the 25.
• 1:17:21
  Caliber murders. And they really wondered why.
• 1:17:24
  Maybe he was scared because he left a witness.
• 1:17:27
  Maybe all the pictures of his face papered all over town had
• 1:17:30
  him shook. But by spring of 1989, it was
• 1:17:33
  now officially a cold case. And the South Side Slayer task.
• 1:17:37
  Force was. Officially disbanded. 1990 hit.
• 1:17:42
  South Central and. It didn't get a lot better
• 1:17:46
  crack. Was still.
• 1:17:47
  The gang wars are still a problem.
• 1:17:49
  And then they had to contend with the LA riots after Rodney
• 1:17:51
  King was brutalized by the police on March 3rd, 1991 and
• 1:17:55
  the murder of Latasha Harlins after a Korean store owner shot
• 1:17:58
  a 15 year old in the back of her head only over $1.79 orange
• 1:18:03
  juice. Those were the 2.
• 1:18:07
  Clinching. Acts that caused the riots which
• 1:18:10
  went from night April 29th to May 4th.
• 1:18:15
  This was a major aspect. Of my life.
• 1:18:17
  I remember sitting at home watching this on TV with my
• 1:18:22
  family. Then right after that LA had to
• 1:18:26
  contend with OJ Simpson. I also remember.
• 1:18:29
  Watching that, Remember that vaguely.
• 1:18:32
  The entire June 13th. 1994. The That was when.
• 1:18:39
  Nicole Brown was murdered along with that guy.
• 1:18:41
  I can't remember his name, but Nicole Brown is.
• 1:18:46
  The one who? Cared.
• 1:18:47
  About to be fair. And I think it was something
• 1:18:50
  right. I gotta look.
• 1:18:52
  It up you, you say? Ron, my brain just.
• 1:18:54
  Goes Swanson. And that's not his name.
• 1:18:57
  No, not Ron Swanson. Let's see Nicole Brown.
• 1:19:04
  And Ronald Gold, there you go. Yeah, well, the LAPD.
• 1:19:11
  Didn't do really. Well, with that.
• 1:19:12
  Whole situation because how of how they handled it and some say
• 1:19:16
  botched the OJ arrest in trial 1999 came out.
• 1:19:21
  Swinging with. A huge.
• 1:19:22
  Corruption scandal in the LAPD known as the Rampart scandal
• 1:19:26
  around the Rampart police station and it was all about a
• 1:19:30
  super corrupt anti gang unit. That all started when officer.
• 1:19:35
  Rafael Perez got. Busted for stealing cocaine that
• 1:19:38
  was in evidence. And he told on Everybody the
• 1:19:41
  whole department was making false arrests, tamper with
• 1:19:45
  evidence, writing bad police reports and using suspects,
• 1:19:48
  planting evidence on civilians. I'm going down.
• 1:19:51
  Y'all going down with me. Major media nightmare for the
• 1:19:55
  LAPD They. Just did.
• 1:19:57
  They had a bad 90s? Yeah, that was bad.
• 1:20:01
  Listen, the 80s was full of serial killer.
• 1:20:04
  I mean the 80s and then the 90s, yeah.
• 1:20:06
  And the 90s, Yeah, because. It didn't stop well, and so the
• 1:20:10
  police well, DNA, DNA evidence. Got better?
• 1:20:15
  Over that decade and the police began resubmitting DNA from old
• 1:20:22
  cases to attempt to 1. Remove the absolute multitude of
• 1:20:30
  cold case files that they have and immediately, though this
• 1:20:34
  doesn't give them any leads. On the 20. 5 caliber murders Now
• 1:20:37
  what's our boy Lonnie doing at this time?
• 1:20:39
  Well, he went back in hiding, focused on his illegal car
• 1:20:41
  business, which actually got him into big trouble with the LAPD.
• 1:20:47
  In 1993 he was stealing auto parts and selling them and using
• 1:20:50
  them to fix cars and on February 25th 1993 they caught him.
• 1:20:54
  With his son working on a stolen car, a search of the property
• 1:20:58
  showed five more stolen cars and Lonnie got charged with six
• 1:21:01
  counts of Grand Theft Auto. He pled guilty to all six
• 1:21:05
  counts. And his.
• 1:21:06
  Lawyers tried a hard to be like this is his first defense.
• 1:21:10
  He'll never do it again. But the judge?
• 1:21:13
  Had access to the police, reports Brittany.
• 1:21:18
  Yeah, as they had him. In custody?
• 1:21:22
  Oh yeah, so. They couldn't have.
• 1:21:24
  Been like, yo, I've seen this face somewhere.
• 1:21:28
  There's a sketch. I know I've seen a sketch of
• 1:21:31
  this face somewhere many like a few years ago.
• 1:21:35
  Like, yeah, it would have been about four years before.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah, they would have. Had that composite out.
• 1:21:40
  This is not like they don't just like member, like, whatever.
• 1:21:44
  I gotta be real for you. Like a lot of these.
• 1:21:47
  Dudes, when they get arrested, they do like the scary face.
• 1:21:51
  You look all me. Oh, wow.
• 1:21:53
  And they do kind of look. Similar, it's just it's the the
• 1:21:57
  mean. Face the mean.
• 1:21:58
  I killed somebody Thing. I know, but damn.
• 1:22:00
  Come on. These like, OK, whatever, OK,
• 1:22:02
  whatever. I don't know.
• 1:22:03
  Whatever, That's OK. I understand the position.
• 1:22:08
  Regardless though, the judge was like you actually are connected
• 1:22:12
  to like almost thirty stolen cars.
• 1:22:15
  And you've been stealing cars since high school and there was
• 1:22:17
  that gun possession charge and receiving stolen property in 84
• 1:22:21
  and the burglary tools of 89 and assault with a deadly weapon in
• 1:22:25
  1991 when you were fighting with a prostitute.
• 1:22:27
  You are not innocent by any stretch of the means.
• 1:22:31
  They gave him a year in county because apparently stealing cars
• 1:22:34
  is not that big of a fans. Somehow he got out.
• 1:22:38
  He got out within. Four months because.
• 1:22:40
  LA County prisons are overrun with people who've done much
• 1:22:43
  worse. And he somehow managed to not go
• 1:22:47
  back to prison. Despite continuing to get
• 1:22:49
  arrested for Grand Theft Auto robbery and more assault with a
• 1:22:52
  deadly weapon, he did pretty much.
• 1:22:55
  Everything. That you can do except violate
• 1:23:00
  his parole and had the one stipulation for his parole was
• 1:23:04
  you may not own or use a firearm for the next three years.
• 1:23:12
  So he didn't. He just did everything else.
• 1:23:14
  That you could possibly do. I'm just really over the fact.
• 1:23:18
  So he got, he got the, the the gun with the assault with a
• 1:23:24
  deadly weapon charge. Was that a gun charge?
• 1:23:26
  Right. Nope.
• 1:23:28
  No. Fucking no.
• 1:23:29
  That charge was because he got in.
• 1:23:32
  He got in a fight. With a woman in the car and he
• 1:23:35
  actually, like, tried to push her out of the vehicle while it
• 1:23:38
  was moving, they considered the deadly weapon the car.
• 1:23:42
  OK. OK.
• 1:23:43
  Yeah. I heard.
• 1:23:46
  I've heard that before, OK. I guess, yeah, They were like,
• 1:23:49
  you nearly killed her with the car.
• 1:23:51
  By not making sure she wasn't still attached to it when you
• 1:23:55
  pushed her out of it, but he got and that was just because they
• 1:23:57
  got into a fight. But you got the the, the
• 1:24:00
  freaking what the the gun charge something what the gun charge
• 1:24:02
  you said that was that was way back though and it might not.
• 1:24:06
  Have been the right. Oh come on, he's just killing
• 1:24:09
  me. Well then, in 2000, he.
• 1:24:16
  Started killing again. The next victim wouldn't be
• 1:24:19
  found until 2002. Her name was Princess.
• 1:24:23
  Breath of meow breath. Of you.
• 1:24:29
  Princess's. Story was like the one that
• 1:24:31
  literally. Made me tear up when I was
• 1:24:34
  writing it. She's only 15 years old before
• 1:24:37
  she met him, and she had a really awful life.
• 1:24:40
  She was abandoned by her mother as a toddler, abused by her
• 1:24:43
  father after that. Removed from his care on October
• 1:24:46
  14th when she was two years old. 1882 she was, apparently.
• 1:24:51
  Accidentally also exposed to. Cocaine by her father and
• 1:24:55
  girlfriend. And she was covered in cigarette
• 1:24:58
  burns and marks from being hit with a Switcher belt.
• 1:25:15
  To the smart family and their children and everything was
• 1:25:19
  beautiful until 1990. She was moved into a foster
• 1:25:03
  family in 1990. Her foster family said that she
• 1:25:06
  would wake up just screaming. She was three years old with
• 1:25:11
  PTSD. Eventually the things got better
• 1:25:15
  and she. When Dolores Smart died from
• 1:25:24
  cancer. And I can really say that I
• 1:25:26
  understand how Princess would feel here.
• 1:25:28
  It's one thing to lose a mom, but when that mom chooses you
• 1:25:33
  and she dies, it feels completely different.
• 1:25:35
  Like, yeah, I believe. I bet Princess never recovered
• 1:25:41
  from this loss. She got angry and insular.
• 1:25:45
  Her other family didn't really understand why she couldn't cope
• 1:25:50
  her foster. Father David.
• 1:25:52
  Was also in poor health. Congenitive, heart failure and
• 1:25:57
  had three heart attacks, and he had determined that he couldn't
• 1:26:01
  take care of any of the foster kids anymore.
• 1:25:54
  He was going. Who had moved out and she
• 1:26:14
  attempted to help. There were three of them,
• 1:26:05
  Princess, and two other girls. David did have an oldest child.
• 1:26:16
  But Samara. Was a full time college student
• 1:26:18
  with three kids of her own. So it was just too much for her
• 1:26:21
  to now take care. Of 6.
• 1:26:25
  The two younger girls were. Taken to another family.
• 1:26:28
  And in 1988, Princess was back in the foster Christian student
• 1:26:31
  at 12 years old. From that point forward.
• 1:26:35
  She ran away from every foster. Home she was placed in and she
• 1:26:39
  was reported missing to the Hawthorne Police on December
• 1:26:43
  21st, 2001. By her.
• 1:26:45
  Foster mother Ronnie Smith. She ended up working for a pimp
• 1:26:49
  in Hawthorne and never went back to any foster family again.
• 1:26:54
  When the call came in. Just after midnight on March
• 1:26:57
  9th, 2:00. 1002 Nobody was really thinking about the 25
• 1:27:00
  caliber killer There was a naked female body in.
• 1:27:05
  An alley. Behind the S Van Ness building,
• 1:27:09
  Sorry. Behind S Van Ness Blvd.
• 1:27:12
  In Inglewood. Medical Examiner Dr. Rafi
• 1:27:16
  Jaborian. Said that it had.
• 1:27:22
  Was able. To discover what happened three
• 1:27:24
  days later on. March 12th.
• 1:27:26
  Her eyes were full and shut from being hit in the face.
• 1:27:29
  There was a ligature mark on the back of her neck.
• 1:27:32
  They could tell that she had been sodomized from the blood in
• 1:27:35
  and around the cavity. She had been asphyxiated.
• 1:27:39
  They named her Jane Go, 15, the 15th of the year, and it was
• 1:27:43
  only March, God. They made a sketch of her face.
• 1:27:47
  They took a rape kit. And her sketch was actually
• 1:27:50
  handed out at a LAPD press conference.
• 1:27:53
  But nobody called for Princess. But the forensics?
• 1:27:56
  Team decided to keep. They tested the rape kit and
• 1:28:00
  they found a pancreatic enzyme found in human saliva that
• 1:28:05
  saliva was. Swabbed on.
• 1:28:07
  Her genitals, her right knee, right ankle, left nipple, right
• 1:28:11
  nipple and they processed the samples.
• 1:28:14
  Uploaded them to local, state and federal DNA data.
• 1:28:17
  Banks of Felons Princess wouldn't be identified for
• 1:28:20
  another. 5. The next.
• 1:28:24
  Victim was Valerie Louise Mccorby on.
• 1:28:26
  July 11th, 2003 A school crossing guard arrived.
• 1:28:31
  At. Her spot at 6:35 AM and a man
• 1:28:35
  pulled up beside her and was like, you need to call the
• 1:28:37
  police. There's a dead body over there
• 1:28:39
  and pointed to an alley. And then drove off.
• 1:28:43
  She didn't get a good look. At the guy before he pulled
• 1:28:45
  away. But it was a light colored miss
• 1:28:48
  size car. I've always wondered and the
• 1:28:50
  police never said this, but I wonder if that was him.
• 1:28:54
  It sounds like it probably could have been like if there's
• 1:28:58
  nothing in the official. Records that they.
• 1:29:00
  Think it was him who talked to the crossing guard.
• 1:29:03
  But like a lot of times, serial killers get, they get ballsy and
• 1:29:08
  they they want. Should be they.
• 1:29:10
  Want people to find the person? So it could be on.
• 1:29:13
  The news and they can feel like, yeah, I did that.
• 1:29:18
  Regardless, though, Valerie's clothes were pulled up.
• 1:29:21
  Down underwear was gone. The.
• 1:29:24
  Police realized. That she had a road rash and a
• 1:29:26
  bruise on her shoulder, meaning that she was probably alive when
• 1:29:29
  she was dumped from the car. Just like Princess, she had been
• 1:29:33
  strangled. A.
• 1:29:34
  Toxicology report revealed drugs and alcohol in her system.
• 1:29:38
  They swapped her for DNA. Valerie was a drug addict.
• 1:29:43
  Who lived on the street? Where?
• 1:29:44
  She died. She'd been arrested six times in
• 1:29:47
  the past. She was connected to a pimp
• 1:29:49
  named Nobles. Nobles.
• 1:29:51
  Got her pregnant. And that actually ended up being
• 1:29:53
  the thing that made Valerie want to have a better life.
• 1:29:57
  Her first child, Symphony, was put up for adoption because she
• 1:29:59
  was born with drugs in her system, and her second child,
• 1:30:03
  Matthew, was born October 29, second 1989.
• 1:30:06
  She tried her hardest to stay clean.
• 1:30:17
  And I think the interesting thing is when.
• 1:30:09
  She started working at a facility to help other addicts.
• 1:30:13
  So you know, but it just didn't. She was clean, she.
• 1:30:20
  Cut all of her ties with Nobles and originally when Valerie went
• 1:30:24
  missing, nobles daughter assumed that her dad had killed Valerie.
• 1:30:32
  Yeah, she was a teenager. And was just like.
• 1:30:35
  I. Think my dad did it and believed
• 1:30:37
  it for the next seven years until was discovered that
• 1:30:41
  Valerie was connected to the Grim Sleeper now in late 2000.
• 1:30:46
  1A Sex Crimes. Detective named David Lampkin
• 1:30:49
  pushed the LAPD to open up a cold case unit.
• 1:30:52
  Because of the improvements of DNA evidence, they got
• 1:30:55
  everything retested and that's when the unit noticed that a lot
• 1:30:58
  of evidence in these old cases had just been thrown out.
• 1:31:03
  And like, they're like, this is gonna absolutely ruin how many
• 1:31:06
  cases we can really solve but in 2000.
• 1:31:12
  They got a hit related to a woman named Paula Vance, and
• 1:31:16
  that was the DNA of a man named. Chester Turner.
• 1:31:20
  And they were able to connect. Chester Turner.
• 1:31:23
  To 10 other murders. That they had assumed was the
• 1:31:27
  South Side Slayer. They had now found a second
• 1:31:31
  serial killer in South Central. This was a major success and so
• 1:31:35
  they started looking at other cases and went well.
• 1:31:38
  Who else can we look into? The cool key students was like,
• 1:31:41
  what about the 25 caliber killings.
• 1:31:44
  So they retested the bullets they were.
• 1:31:46
  Like, good. All of these go to the same gun.
• 1:31:50
  Unfortunately, they could only submit three sets of DNA
• 1:31:53
  evidence from the seven murders before Mary Lowe, Bernita Sparks
• 1:31:56
  and Barbara, where Deborah Jackson and Monique were too
• 1:32:00
  decomposed for a good sample and Henrietta Wright's case file had
• 1:32:04
  just been destroyed. No clue why, just that it had
• 1:32:10
  been. Ten months later, December 9th,
• 1:32:13
  2004, they get a match linking Mary Lowe to Valerie.
• 1:32:18
  Luis Mccorvey killed on July 11th, 2003 and now we're back in
• 1:32:23
  business. OK, we could connect.
• 1:32:26
  Well, The thing is a lot of those early murders.
• 1:32:28
  Were connected via the. And now we had a DNA connection
• 1:32:32
  from the current murders to the old ones that are all connected
• 1:32:35
  via bullets. Nice.
• 1:32:36
  OK, they only have one problem. This guy's DNA is not.
• 1:32:43
  In the system. What?
• 1:32:46
  Somehow, magically, he. Never done anything that meant
• 1:32:52
  that he would get swab. Swab, yeah.
• 1:32:58
  Because you don't normally swab DNA for somebody who steals.
• 1:33:01
  A car or something random like that.
• 1:33:04
  I mean, OK, I guess. Well, here's the thing in the
• 1:33:09
  past now. For felonies, they do swab
• 1:33:13
  people, but that'll come. Into play in the.
• 1:33:16
  So since the evidence, they realized that the killer's last
• 1:33:18
  target had definitely been a need for Washington before
• 1:33:21
  Valerie McCormick. Of course there are 1,000,000
• 1:33:23
  questions as this guy gone to jail.
• 1:33:25
  The answer is yes, Serial killers don't normally just stop
• 1:33:29
  over the next two years. They did look over the suspects
• 1:33:31
  that they had in the past. Donald Bertine.
• 1:33:34
  He had been in prison since 1990, so it couldn't be him
• 1:33:37
  killing. Now they looked at Dennis
• 1:33:40
  Pinckney, Jimmy Lewis. They also tried to connect him
• 1:33:43
  to the former LA County Sheriff's Deputy Ricky Ross, who
• 1:33:47
  also had a bunch of murders under his belt.
• 1:33:50
  But no, Ross had died June 2nd, 2003, five weeks before Valerie
• 1:33:54
  was murdered. Lewis wasn't in prison and
• 1:33:57
  didn't have any DNA in the database.
• 1:33:59
  They actually followed him and like stole a napkin out of his
• 1:34:02
  trash can and test and but ultimately on one of the
• 1:34:05
  detectives knocked on his door. He was just like this again.
• 1:34:09
  Because remember I mentioned that pinckney.
• 1:34:12
  Was the informant. And then she switched her story
• 1:34:15
  and said it was Louis. He was like, here, take my DNA.
• 1:34:21
  He's ruled out as a suspect. Handy had died in July of 1990,
• 1:34:24
  so it couldn't be him now. The cool case team was just
• 1:34:28
  going to. Continue working every angle.
• 1:34:31
  And then the killer struck again.
• 1:34:33
  Her name was Janicea Peters, aka Nicia, and she started life as
• 1:34:37
  just a weird little kid. Who would do things like cover
• 1:34:40
  herself and Vaseline and crawl around the room and warrant
• 1:34:44
  people? OK or.
• 1:34:48
  She would. Take off all the labels to all
• 1:34:49
  the canned goods and leave them for her mom.
• 1:34:53
  And. Just cackle.
• 1:34:54
  Not that kind of kid. Damn it this evil.
• 1:34:59
  And she got. She got into dance.
• 1:35:01
  She. Started a dance troupe with her
• 1:35:02
  sisters. Adult lessons proved to be sad
• 1:35:05
  for her because three of her friends were killed by drug
• 1:35:08
  violence and teens. She got pregnant at 19 and her.
• 1:35:11
  Family was super. Her mom and sister were there
• 1:35:14
  when she gave birth. Her sister even caught the cord.
• 1:35:18
  Life is hard, but it's at least bearable when you have someone
• 1:35:21
  there with you. Lucy was a good mom.
• 1:35:24
  She ended up. Going to the.
• 1:35:25
  Inglewood Adult School. When her son Justin was a year
• 1:35:27
  old, she enrolled in classes at Southwest College in LA College.
• 1:35:32
  She wanted to be a computer programmer or maybe a teacher.
• 1:35:35
  Her mom, Laverne. It was in college, though.
• 1:35:38
  When she picked up a Coke. Addiction and started getting a
• 1:35:41
  rest of her solicitation. She was in and out of jail from
• 1:35:45
  not point forward her family had.
• 1:35:49
  To kind of separate themselves. From her and it was late
• 1:35:52
  December when Lisia called her mom.
• 1:35:57
  Excited. She was like I.
• 1:35:58
  Found a place. Laverne and Necia had a
• 1:36:01
  conversation about how she wasn't going to return Justin to
• 1:36:06
  Necia until she was really clean and back on track.
• 1:36:11
  Before Necia hung up. She said to her mom.
• 1:36:14
  Tell Justin I love him. She was found on January 1st,
• 1:36:18
  2:00. 1007 at 9:00. AM by a homeless man who was
• 1:36:21
  collecting recyclables. Her body was inside of a black
• 1:36:25
  trash pad covered in recycling stuff.
• 1:36:28
  That bag was under an old Christmas tree and cardboard
• 1:36:30
  boxes inside of a dumpster. When the police got there, they
• 1:36:38
  noticed the reason the homeless man was like, I couldn't.
• 1:36:33
  The killer had met for Anicia not to be.
• 1:36:43
  Get the bag open. And they realized the reason why
• 1:36:46
  was that it had been zip tied shut.
• 1:36:50
  She was taken to the county corner immediately.
• 1:36:53
  She had been shot in the back. They determined that as soon as
• 1:36:57
  the bullet. Hit her.
• 1:36:58
  She would have. Been paralyzed.
• 1:37:00
  Her left eye showed a partial hemorrhage.
• 1:37:03
  They couldn't figure out whether her cause of death was the the
• 1:37:05
  bullet or asphyxiation, but the person that obviously tried to
• 1:37:09
  strangle her necia had last been.
• 1:37:12
  Seen alive on New Year's Eve. A couple of druggies and working
• 1:37:16
  girls were all hanging. Behind the Fairlane Motel until
• 1:37:19
  midnight, another one of the working women told the police
• 1:37:22
  they saw her. The area at 1:00 AM.
• 1:37:26
  The police were definitely. Right, the 20. 5 Caliber Killer
• 1:37:30
  was back at it. Again and.
• 1:37:32
  Getting confident again now on. April 27th, 2007, Cold case.
• 1:37:38
  Detective Cliff Shepard got a fax with another DNA hit.
• 1:37:41
  Saliva found on the zip tie matched Princess and Valerie and
• 1:37:45
  now we have a confirmed 10 murders.
• 1:37:49
  So they formed a task. Force, they called.
• 1:37:51
  It the 800. Task Force.
• 1:37:53
  Because of the number on their office door, it was composed of
• 1:37:57
  seven veteran police. Officers who had.
• 1:37:59
  A combined 100 years of experience, Detective Coulter
• 1:38:03
  Kill Coin. Fallon and Shepherd.
• 1:38:05
  Were all within five years of retirement, and so they said
• 1:38:08
  that was the deadline before. We have.
• 1:38:10
  To retire, we have to find this guy.
• 1:38:15
  Lonnie Franklin Jr. Now back to. he did get.
• 1:38:17
  Arrested again in 2003 for car left and car theft and receiving
• 1:38:21
  stolen property. Sorry, April 2nd 2003 He was put
• 1:38:31
  in jail for two. 170 days, but again released for only 40% of
• 1:38:36
  his sentence. Him was that he kept going to
• 1:38:41
  jail for 3-4 months at a time. So the police went wrong.
• 1:38:38
  Part of the reason why they did. He kept a low profile from this
• 1:38:45
  point forward. The 800 tasks were spent.
• 1:38:48
  Most of two. 1007 trying to figure out the profile of the
• 1:38:51
  killer. Was this about a hatred of black
• 1:38:54
  women, probably linked to a mother?
• 1:38:56
  Hatred like Ed Kemper? A scorned lover like Bundy?
• 1:39:00
  Sex addiction like Gary Ridgway? I say possibly the gap.
• 1:39:06
  In the kills was confusing for them, but.
• 1:39:08
  For one thing they were certain about was he was gaining
• 1:39:11
  confidence and he was definitely going to do it again.
• 1:39:13
  The task force pulled every murder even closely resembling
• 1:39:17
  it, even ones that had already been.
• 1:39:20
  Solved which was pulling. 150 cases over the last 20-3 years.
• 1:39:26
  They looked for. The anonymous tipster who had
• 1:39:28
  called in of the different tipsters who had called into
• 1:39:30
  other bodies. They even talked to the old
• 1:39:32
  police informant, Shelley Brown. Again, by spring of 2008 the
• 1:39:37
  task force had run down a lot of leads and they were really
• 1:39:40
  struggling not to lose hope themselves.
• 1:39:43
  And then California approved. A Very.
• 1:39:46
  New and controversial forensic tool.
• 1:39:51
  What do you think that is right, New and controversial?
• 1:39:56
  It's the thing that I don't like.
• 1:39:58
  Is it? It's that.
• 1:40:03
  Thing. Is that the is that thing?
• 1:40:07
  Familial DNA testing. Yes, that thing.
• 1:40:10
  The thing with the 23 andme in 2008, this was very
• 1:40:14
  controversial. Because people like.
• 1:40:16
  Me feel like we didn't give permission for our DNA to enter
• 1:40:19
  a federal database, but the Governor of California at the
• 1:40:21
  time, Jerry Browns did. The benefit of doing this and
• 1:40:24
  potentially catching murderers outweighed the ethical quandary.
• 1:40:27
  And if you aren't well versed listeners as far as the volume
• 1:40:30
  of serial killers. I said this before, but I have
• 1:40:32
  the exact number now. California beats out every other
• 1:40:35
  state with 1628 serial killers to compare.
• 1:40:40
  The entire United States has 3204 serial pillows.
• 1:40:45
  They were desperate. So about half, half of them
• 1:40:50
  have. Taken place in California.
• 1:40:54
  Now with the familial DNA being allowed to check get checked.
• 1:40:56
  In 2008, they decided that you didn't get a free run of
• 1:40:59
  everybody's DNA and the way to make people happy was to say
• 1:41:02
  that this case had to be submitted to the state.
• 1:41:05
  And you had to prove that you had done absolutely everything
• 1:41:07
  else you could do in your power to find this killer before we
• 1:41:11
  allowed you access to this DNA database that at the time had
• 1:41:15
  only about a million people in it.
• 1:41:18
  That way they could tell the other.
• 1:41:19
  Organizations concern with. Civilian privacy that you know
• 1:41:22
  every time Dick and Harry isn't about to get access to all these
• 1:41:25
  people. Now Coulter shepherd and kill
• 1:41:28
  coin. Had to actually fly to.
• 1:41:30
  Sacramento and meet with the Bureau Chief of the California
• 1:41:33
  Department of Justice, Jill Spriggs to plead their case.
• 1:41:36
  The major point being that this killer had destroyed lives for
• 1:41:39
  over 20 years. He's actively killing again and
• 1:41:42
  they had done everything else other than just wait for him to
• 1:41:45
  do it again. They did get approved, but the
• 1:41:49
  next delay? Was the fact.
• 1:41:50
  That they need to prepare a special software to figure out
• 1:41:55
  how to do it. The Texas Rd. stands to.
• 1:41:58
  Look at in the meantime. Christine Pelisek pretty much
• 1:42:03
  harassed Detective Shepherd until he told her that there had
• 1:42:06
  been a third, a tenth murder. She ended up meeting with Kilcoy
• 1:42:10
  and told him she intended to write an entire article about
• 1:42:13
  Janisia Peters and the secret task force, and then she started
• 1:42:17
  tracking on the victim's families.
• 1:42:18
  That article was the one where she named him The Grim Sleeper
• 1:42:23
  and ultimately morphed into the book.
• 1:42:26
  That I use as a main resource. And actually after.
• 1:42:28
  He died. She was also the person to
• 1:42:30
  report on that as well. Like Prestige just was the
• 1:42:34
  person who followed this case from 2000.
• 1:42:38
  So it's completion. I haven't.
• 1:42:40
  I have a I'm iffy about reporters, like sometimes, and
• 1:42:46
  rules seem to be doing pretty good, yeah.
• 1:42:49
  I mean, you know, sometimes they have, sometimes they, they are
• 1:42:52
  just in the fucking way. That's true, but like I said.
• 1:42:57
  I'm in the beginning. Christine is the.
• 1:42:59
  One who named him the Grim Sleeper and the name hit a nerve
• 1:43:02
  in LA and across America, and it's stuck once that article
• 1:43:05
  exploded. And people.
• 1:43:07
  Knew that. Christine was working with the
• 1:43:08
  LAPD. They started contacting her and
• 1:43:11
  they were like, I am sure that my coworker or my husband is the
• 1:43:16
  Grim Sleeper. And so Christine was like, get a
• 1:43:19
  DNA sample, I'll pass it along. So she did that.
• 1:43:24
  And so they were like. We don't have anything else we
• 1:43:26
  can do right now, so we might as well test these people.
• 1:43:31
  Psychics and mediums called her two then.
• 1:43:34
  Christine got a weird letter that had eight photos of a black
• 1:43:38
  man having sex with different black women.
• 1:43:41
  She passed this weird letter along to.
• 1:43:43
  The task force. I personally think that Lonnie.
• 1:43:47
  That was him. He.
• 1:43:48
  Contacted her. He was like, Oh yeah, you could
• 1:43:50
  give me a name. Here's a photo of some of the
• 1:43:52
  stuff that I did. God now, December 2nd. 2008 The
• 1:43:58
  familia DNA. Tool came back blank with a grim
• 1:44:01
  sleeper. They waited for so long and.
• 1:44:05
  It failed. So Christine focused next on
• 1:44:08
  telling a Nitra. Originally, Anitra was less than
• 1:44:11
  willing to talk to anybody because she had been ignored for
• 1:44:15
  over a decade. She's a very like.
• 1:44:21
  Blunt. To the point, kind of woman.
• 1:44:24
  And Christine earned her trust by just coming and being around
• 1:44:30
  her and seeing her in the. Community.
• 1:44:33
  Christine also learned a lot about the meeting.
• 1:44:35
  From Anitra. Like Anitra was pretty sure that
• 1:44:37
  the man who had raped and shot her.
• 1:44:40
  Stalked her for years after the attack.
• 1:44:42
  She said that she would be taking a bus and she would see
• 1:44:45
  this one guy just watching her. She got phone calls in the
• 1:44:49
  middle of the night, like he was keeping track of her.
• 1:44:53
  One day he even. Walked up to her and was like,
• 1:44:56
  do you know me? Oh no.
• 1:44:57
  And in each and Anitra was like, am I supposed to?
• 1:45:02
  After that, he stopped. Following her but it.
• 1:45:05
  Occurred to her later. Holy crap, that's him.
• 1:45:10
  The task force. Manages to get the state to put
• 1:45:12
  up A5. $100,000 reward in February of 2009.
• 1:45:17
  They just wanted the world to. Pay attention.
• 1:45:20
  To this serial killer they released all the composite
• 1:45:23
  sketches again, one from beginning and then one showing
• 1:45:27
  like a five year age and a 10 year age kill coin actually.
• 1:45:32
  Released the 9/1. One call reporting Barbara
• 1:45:35
  Ware's body dump to the media. The police chief asked for
• 1:45:39
  public help and solving the only still outstanding serial
• 1:45:43
  murderer working in the city currently that actually did
• 1:45:47
  backfire on Phil Coin. They didn't know that Barbara
• 1:45:50
  Ware had any relatives and her stepmother was still alive.
• 1:45:54
  And she was real mad to turn on the news and see her daughter's
• 1:45:59
  picture and hear that 911 call. Suddenly they had 100 new tips
• 1:46:06
  though. Many were bad leads, or just
• 1:46:08
  dead ends. Force They were only given one
• 1:46:21
  police vehicle was just Dennis Kilcoyne, Cliff Shepherd.
• 1:46:09
  By 2010, the task force was down to four people, just the old
• 1:46:13
  timers. The other three had been
• 1:46:15
  reassigned. All overtime hours were cut on
• 1:46:18
  the. Fallon and Paul Coulter.
• 1:46:27
  And then in March of 2010, Jill Spriggs called them and went.
• 1:46:32
  Why don't you? Try it again.
• 1:46:34
  The database is bigger now. So they tried one more.
• 1:46:38
  Time The second familial. Search request was submitted on
• 1:46:41
  March 31st, 2010. On June 30th, Dennis.
• 1:46:46
  Kilcoyne got a. Call from Scriggs about
• 1:46:49
  canceling a breakfast that they had planned.
• 1:46:52
  She usually had to come into town once a month to do a
• 1:46:54
  meeting with law enforcement, and so the following day she
• 1:46:58
  would have brunch with them. The call was actually kind of
• 1:47:01
  cute. Spriggs was like.
• 1:47:02
  Don't. You want to know why I have to
• 1:47:04
  cancel breakfast and kill Coin? And kill Coin was like, you're
• 1:47:07
  in charge of 13 evidence labs. You're busy and she was like,
• 1:47:11
  you need to sit down. And he was, she's like, are you
• 1:47:13
  sitting down? And he's like, no.
• 1:47:15
  And she's like, you need to and she's like, I have to go to LA.
• 1:47:18
  For something related to. The Grim Sleeper.
• 1:47:21
  And I can't say why she's like, but I need you to pick me up
• 1:47:24
  from the airport and call a meeting.
• 1:47:27
  The following day at. That meeting, Springs.
• 1:47:30
  Got right to the. Point There were five close
• 1:47:32
  matches and one perfect match. That perfect match was 28 year
• 1:47:37
  old Christopher John Franklin, the son of Lonnie Franklin Jr.
• 1:47:43
  He had been swapped the. Summer of 2009.
• 1:47:46
  After pleading guilty to a felony weapons charge, there
• 1:47:51
  were only two. Possibilities for a.
• 1:47:53
  Relative of Christopher and uncle in Riverside.
• 1:47:57
  And Lonnie Franklin Jr. his father.
• 1:48:00
  They looked at everything they could about.
• 1:48:01
  Lonnie They went undercover. Starting July 2nd, 2010, trying
• 1:48:05
  to grab any item that he could possibly leave behind that
• 1:48:08
  showed DNA on it. They watched him go out and try
• 1:48:11
  and pick up prostitutes. They watched him meet a
• 1:48:13
  girlfriend, stay the night at her house.
• 1:48:15
  And then on July 5th they got a great opportunity.
• 1:48:18
  They saw that Lonnie and Sony's daughter like he picked Lonnie,
• 1:48:21
  picked up Sony's daughter and a bunch of other little girls and
• 1:48:24
  went to a pizza parlor. And the cops actually went into
• 1:48:28
  the restaurant and said we need to have one of your employees
• 1:48:34
  step down and then we're gonna insert an officer to pretend to
• 1:48:38
  be an employee. I'll step down.
• 1:48:40
  I need a break. Let's go.
• 1:48:45
  So the the cop went in the back, put on the, put on the uniform
• 1:48:49
  and that allowed them to take. All of the garbage that he
• 1:48:53
  physically saw Lonnie eat from like half of a piece of
• 1:48:57
  chocolate cake. All of his stuff was put in a
• 1:49:00
  separate bag from the rest of the table and take it in for
• 1:49:03
  testing. It took Why?
• 1:49:05
  They said it would take one day to create a DNA profile for
• 1:49:08
  Lonnie. That was a lie.
• 1:49:10
  It was a holiday weekend, so it didn't come until July 7th.
• 1:49:14
  It was the 4th of July weekend, but at 6:40. 5:00 AM, Kill Coin.
• 1:49:20
  Got a text? That just said, positive results
• 1:49:26
  that allowed them to bring. In Lonnie and get a warrant to.
• 1:49:28
  Such his house. I'm gonna spare you the annoying
• 1:49:31
  details of the transcripts of his investigation.
• 1:49:34
  Interrogation. He lied the whole time, of
• 1:49:37
  course. Swore up and down.
• 1:49:40
  He never saw any of these. Women, even when they told him
• 1:49:43
  that they saw him cruising for prostitutes and they had been
• 1:49:45
  watching him for like a week, he was like, I don't know what
• 1:49:47
  you're talking about. We think you, we think I'm not
• 1:49:51
  cheating on my wife. OK Sir, we sell.
• 1:49:54
  They were like, we have your DNA.
• 1:49:57
  Your. DNA is connected to like 5
• 1:49:59
  murders. He was like, I don't know what
• 1:50:01
  you're talking about. He was like pointing at the
• 1:50:03
  pictures of the victims laughing like haha, what do you mean?
• 1:50:08
  That's just terrible while this super frustrating interview is
• 1:50:13
  going on. They go to the house, they find
• 1:50:15
  1000 photos, several 100. Hours of videos of him having
• 1:50:21
  sex with other women hand in the garage.
• 1:50:24
  The camper. The police ended up releasing.
• 1:50:26
  180 pictures of like women's faces just to be like, hey, if
• 1:50:31
  this is you, can you let us know?
• 1:50:32
  You're like alive because we don't know where 108 these
• 1:50:36
  hundred. 80 people. Are we've tried to find them?
• 1:50:41
  Simply the grim. They're like, listen, the.
• 1:50:43
  Grim Sleeper had your. Picture in his house and we
• 1:50:45
  don't know why, but please contact us if you know any of
• 1:50:48
  these women are he was officially charged in two. 10
• 1:50:52
  But there was a. Very long road to trial at one
• 1:50:56
  point in 2011. They did.
• 1:50:58
  Find 5 more people from those pictures.
• 1:51:02
  And a. Man who they believed may have
• 1:51:05
  known one of the victims, which is why he was murdered.
• 1:51:09
  The trial was pushed. Off until February 16th. 2016 Oh
• 1:51:13
  my God, this is partially because of pretrial.
• 1:51:17
  Discovery and having to sift through hundreds of hours of
• 1:51:22
  video 1000. Many of the young women on the
• 1:51:25
  tapes were underage at the time. There was a decision about
• 1:51:29
  should they pursue these as child pornography charges if the
• 1:51:32
  statue of limitations covered the potential rape charges.
• 1:51:38
  Just like with Richard. Ramirez they chose.
• 1:51:40
  To focus on the murders because they thought that would be an
• 1:51:43
  easier conviction and it would take longer to put him in prison
• 1:51:46
  to bring in more charges against him.
• 1:51:49
  Yeah, yeah, I get. That Lonnie brought in a.
• 1:51:54
  Powerhouse of. A law team led by a man named
• 1:51:57
  Seymour Amster, who wasted time by demanding that things be
• 1:52:02
  tested and retested to his liking.
• 1:52:06
  Also, Amster was waiting until the last possible moment.
• 1:52:10
  To send. Over their discovery in a timely
• 1:52:13
  manner and waiting until the last possible moment to return
• 1:52:18
  the review on the discovery from the prosecution, it was
• 1:52:21
  clusterfuck at trial things a little more.
• 1:52:25
  Subdued the defense. Led with photos of all the
• 1:52:27
  victims and all the horrible things that he did, what was
• 1:52:31
  actually the most damning was that interrogation.
• 1:52:35
  He had been making jokes, those jokes.
• 1:52:37
  As the. Detectives showed the victims
• 1:52:39
  and trying to show like, this is crazy.
• 1:52:41
  What are you talking about? But in the courtroom, that video
• 1:52:44
  made it seem like he just didn't care.
• 1:52:46
  Yeah, that's what it sounded like all the way to the end.
• 1:52:51
  He never. Took responsibility.
• 1:52:53
  Closing arguments were May 2nd. The jury deliberated from May
• 1:52:56
  4th to May 5th and came back conviction on all counts.
• 1:52:59
  He was sentenced on May 12th. And it was there that they
• 1:53:03
  showcased the six other people that they had connected to him.
• 1:53:06
  That was Sharon Alicia Disbeck, January 15th, 1984, believed to
• 1:53:10
  be his first victim, Thomas Sylvester Steels.
• 1:53:15
  That was the man that they think was.
• 1:53:17
  Connected to the other victims August 14th 1986 he died and as
• 1:53:22
  Elizabeth Warren, August 15th 1988, she was not originally
• 1:53:28
  considered a grim sleeper victim.
• 1:53:30
  But her death matched his Emma was the same for Georgia May
• 1:53:34
  Thomas. 28th 2000 Ayella Marshall.
• 1:53:40
  Her remains. Were never found but her school
• 1:53:43
  ID card. Was.
• 1:53:46
  Found in. His garage.
• 1:53:48
  And that was where he kept his trophies.
• 1:53:51
  Ayella was 18, Relenia Morris. She was also never found.
• 1:53:56
  Her driver's license and several explicit photos were found in
• 1:54:00
  his garage and Anita Washington. To Lonnie at his sentencing,
• 1:54:07
  finally getting the moment to speak her peace and get some
• 1:54:10
  closure on this man who raped her, tried to kill her and
• 1:54:14
  scalped her. And then on June?
• 1:54:17
  Six 2016 Lonnie. Franklin Jr. was sentenced to
• 1:54:20
  death and then the Superior Court affirmed it on August 10.
• 1:54:26
  Lonnie will be executed for the murders.
• 1:54:28
  Of Deborah Jackson. Henrietta Wright, Barbara Ware,
• 1:54:30
  Bernita Sparks, Mary Lowe, Lacretia Jefferson, Alicia
• 1:54:34
  Alexander, Princess Barthomio, Valerie Mccorvey, and Janisha
• 1:54:38
  Peters. Unfortunately, he never saw.
• 1:54:45
  His execution date on March 28th, 20.
• 1:54:49
  Lonnie was found dead in his cell at 67 years old.
• 1:54:52
  Natural causes, OK, I was about to say.
• 1:54:55
  God 10 or Brittany. He didn't deserve to die
• 1:54:59
  peacefully. He did.
• 1:55:00
  But, but in the words of. Barbara Where stepmother Diana?
• 1:55:05
  Diane I won't. Say I'm.
• 1:55:08
  Pleased he died. But at the.
• 1:55:10
  End there was justice for all the bad things he did in his
• 1:55:12
  life. We can now be at peace, I guess.
• 1:55:21
  That was frustrating. I know, a tough one.
• 1:55:26
  So imagine. Imagine if Ramirez was around
• 1:55:32
  for as long as this guy was. He never got called.
• 1:55:38
  Well, there is a belief I. Don't know if you remember.
• 1:55:41
  This from the documentary but his first.
• 1:55:46
  Murder was a child. At a hotel that he was staying
• 1:55:50
  at right like a big chunk of. Time before.
• 1:55:55
  He started killing people in the suburbs, and because of how
• 1:55:59
  frequent his attacks were, a lot of people don't believe that he
• 1:56:04
  just stopped between those two times.
• 1:56:07
  Also, if you remember, he taunted the police in another
• 1:56:11
  city. Yeah, remember.
• 1:56:16
  I think that was like. Of a city that was further north
• 1:56:18
  of LA. And he was just like, hey, you
• 1:56:21
  should look into those old ladies.
• 1:56:23
  And he pretty much told those police officers that he had
• 1:56:25
  killed in their region. So it's believable?
• 1:56:29
  Yeah, So it's believable that he.
• 1:56:31
  Absolutely. Probably continued killing it
• 1:56:35
  was. Only.
• 1:56:36
  And I hate to say it this way, but it was only when he started
• 1:56:38
  killing wealthy people from the middle class or upper class that
• 1:56:41
  people gave a shit about who he was.
• 1:56:43
  Taken out, I mean. Remember the Cecil Hotel
• 1:56:46
  documentary? Yeah, he was.
• 1:56:48
  They said that he would just show up covered in blood.
• 1:56:53
  Take. Off his clothes in the back.
• 1:56:55
  Alley and walk upstairs covered in blood, just in his underwear,
• 1:56:59
  like he was obviously doing something during that time.
• 1:57:02
  Yeah, we just don't know what. I'm just like, but what?
• 1:57:07
  If it What if it had, like just spanned until like, the 2000s?
• 1:57:13
  She's. Like, Oh my God.
• 1:57:17
  That's why like, after use, like at after all this time and I'm
• 1:57:22
  thinking about like Lonnie and just all this stuff and it was
• 1:57:25
  like, wow, so this just kept going and going and going.
• 1:57:39
  If I have to cover. Like if Ramirez had not been
• 1:57:33
  called when he did, like when he was called like this were just
• 1:57:36
  good. There's another one that's been
• 1:57:38
  requested, but I don't. The very, very, very long
• 1:57:44
  history of the Golden State killer he was in.
• 1:57:47
  He was another one who familial DNA was necessary.
• 1:57:50
  That might be a. Two or three-part, Yeah.
• 1:57:54
  He has a long. History of being.
• 1:57:56
  A burglar, then a rapist, then a killer. 3 different ages of
• 1:58:03
  crime terrorizing LA. I am done for today.
• 1:58:08
  I know this. One went long.
• 1:58:12
  It is. One of our yeah I think it is
• 1:58:14
  going to be one of our the longest one now.
• 1:58:17
  Yeah, sorry you all. It's just.
• 1:58:20
  I get in a vibe and I can't stop.
• 1:58:23
  I need an editor. Me.
• 1:58:29
  I think I edit myself too much. OK, Brittany, what if, What if?
• 1:58:42
  Lonnie was ending in the New York area, Okay, and there was a
• 1:58:49
  service that I don't know, say cater to criminals and people
• 1:58:59
  who had done wrong in their lives and just cater to them so
• 1:59:04
  they can just, you know, get off of their chest what they had
• 1:59:08
  done. Now this one, it's a request,
• 1:59:16
  OK? It's from Tara.
• 1:59:19
  She requested for for. Folks who don't.
• 1:59:22
  Know that's the wife. Yeah, so it's it's it's, you
• 1:59:26
  know, when your wife asks you to cover?
• 1:59:29
  Something you do it because you're being nice to her and
• 1:59:34
  she's like. She's been asking for for me to
• 1:59:36
  do something like this is not like under my wheelhouse because
• 1:59:41
  I talk about paranormal and and other stuff.
• 1:59:43
  She's like, but you talk about interesting things too.
• 1:59:45
  I'm like, yeah, but yeah, I mean, you have been getting a
• 1:59:49
  little away. From the cryptic world lately.
• 1:59:52
  I mean last week was you just talking about weird stuff in in
• 1:59:56
  the SO. I mean their space, OK?
• 2:00:01
  And listen the people who like you.
• 2:00:02
  Just like hearing you. And apparently looking at your
• 2:00:05
  face which they did not realize you were attractive person until
• 2:00:08
  recently because there have people have been lusting.
• 2:00:12
  After you on the. Discord, you didn't see that?
• 2:00:16
  Oh my goodness, I. Thought it was.
• 2:00:18
  I was like, you got a fan anyway?
• 2:00:26
  I'm watching him just blush right now.
• 2:00:28
  Y'all. Anyway.
• 2:00:37
  Today, today I'll be talking about.
• 2:00:43
  Tell me you've heard about this. The apology.
• 2:00:51
  Silence. Your silence speaks magnitudes.
• 2:00:53
  I'm listening. Have you heard of the apology
• 2:00:56
  line before? You've not Wow.
• 2:00:59
  Okay. I don't know what that is at
• 2:01:02
  all. Okay.
• 2:01:03
  So the apology line. Is Okay.
• 2:01:07
  So it started out in the 80s and it is.
• 2:01:12
  It was basically a line that you would call.
• 2:01:18
  From the pay phone. And say if you were a criminal.
• 2:01:23
  Or. You had done something wrong, or
• 2:01:26
  you had something that you needed to get off your chest or
• 2:01:29
  you like, whatever. What?
• 2:01:32
  There was this. I'm not this.
• 2:01:34
  Is the thing. When was this?
• 2:01:36
  Well, OK, so the the. Actual line started.
• 2:01:39
  In the 1980s and here let. Me read this.
• 2:01:47
  Read the flyer for you. OK, hold on SEC.
• 2:01:50
  Let me pull it up. Let me pull it up.
• 2:01:56
  Does it say attention at the top?
• 2:01:57
  Yes it does. It's a yellow piece of paper.
• 2:02:00
  It's a yellow flyer. OK, I'm watching.
• 2:02:03
  OK, you're reading OK, it says. Attention amateurs.
• 2:02:08
  Criminals. Blue collar, white collar.
• 2:02:11
  You have wrong people. It is to people that you must
• 2:02:15
  apologize. Not to the state, not to God.
• 2:02:19
  Get your misdeeds off your chest.
• 2:02:21
  And there's a number for you to call.
• 2:02:23
  It says call apology and then the phone number.
• 2:02:25
  It probably doesn't work anymore.
• 2:02:27
  Actually is. There, I'm pretty sure it.
• 2:02:30
  It does. I think it not.
• 2:02:33
  If it's not this one, there's another one.
• 2:02:35
  It's the same thing, and we'll get into that later.
• 2:02:38
  But so I'm gonna keep reading. The idea of apology is to
• 2:02:44
  provide a way for people to apologize for your wrongs
• 2:02:47
  against people without jeopardizing themselves.
• 2:02:50
  Apology will automatically tape record your anonymous phone
• 2:02:54
  call. Do not identify yourself and
• 2:02:56
  call from a pay phone to prevent tracing.
• 2:02:59
  Describe in detail what you have done and how you feel about it.
• 2:03:03
  When enough statements have been collected, they will be played
• 2:03:07
  to the public at a time and place to be advertised.
• 2:03:12
  Apology is a private experiment. Its sole purpose is to provide a
• 2:03:16
  new Ave. of communication. It is not associated with any in
• 2:03:22
  any way with any police, government religious or other
• 2:03:28
  organization. So and there's a number and has
• 2:03:31
  like it's oldfashioned of course.
• 2:03:33
  So this from 1980s has a little number tabs you can pull off and
• 2:03:36
  take and take it with you and you can call.
• 2:03:40
  If you, I mean and that guy. Was his name Jose Ferreira?
• 2:03:44
  He should have called this one. He called the news station and
• 2:03:48
  cried about how he killed a girl and this was all.
• 2:03:53
  Set up in New York. So yeah.
• 2:03:56
  OK, so this is only local. Yeah, this is a different city,
• 2:03:59
  but. I remember that cases guys just
• 2:04:00
  like just called the radio, called the TV station and
• 2:04:04
  sobbing about how he had murdered a girl like 30 years
• 2:04:07
  before. And then it had like Gil, it was
• 2:04:09
  the guilt was eating away at him and they arrested him.
• 2:04:14
  God, so I'm. Like see he should have called
• 2:04:16
  this number if he didn't want. To get caught.
• 2:04:18
  But he probably wanted to get caught.
• 2:04:19
  Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, it should be in every
• 2:04:21
  state. Honest, honestly, it should be
• 2:04:24
  there again. I don't know.
• 2:04:25
  Like, wouldn't it be full of like you?
• 2:04:27
  Imagine how many kids call the number and are like I hit my
• 2:04:30
  sister, I'm sorry and hang up. Hey, sometimes, actually.
• 2:04:36
  Hooking it. Too, But there were some kids
• 2:04:39
  that called the apology line. Actually I can imagine like one
• 2:04:43
  of your. Kids calling you talk about
• 2:04:45
  something they did to the other. 10 she took.
• 2:04:49
  My teddy bear. I'm so sorry.
• 2:04:49
  So I smacked. I didn't mean to.
• 2:04:54
  I mean it. She started crying.
• 2:04:56
  So sorry. I didn't really care until my
• 2:04:59
  sister cried. Yeah, same thing.
• 2:05:02
  Then all of a sudden. I was like.
• 2:05:04
  Ah, shouldn't. And I fucked up.
• 2:05:06
  Got it. But.
• 2:05:08
  Yeah, this is my attempt to do something a little different.
• 2:05:11
  It's it's not true crime, but it's also not paranormal.
• 2:05:15
  It's just, you know, something's interesting and it does.
• 2:05:18
  It does have to do crimes and stuff, but you know, this feels
• 2:05:21
  very relevant to you know. But it's not a tip line.
• 2:05:25
  This is you releasing. Do you just lay?
• 2:05:29
  Yourself off your. It's like a confessional,
• 2:05:31
  basically, yeah. Yeah, I know.
• 2:05:35
  Right, so. Before we get to the meet of
• 2:05:40
  this topic, we had to start off with the person who actually
• 2:05:44
  created this apology line. Is is a man named Allen Bridge.
• 2:05:50
  So there wasn't much about his childhood that he he did grew up
• 2:05:55
  he he was born in Fall Church of Virginia, February 14th, 1945.
• 2:06:03
  And he went to the University of Chicago and he got a degree and
• 2:06:07
  Fine Arts like and he moves to Washington, DC after he
• 2:06:13
  graduates, he gets his degree And he, of course he was an
• 2:06:20
  artist. So he did large scale paintings
• 2:06:23
  and stuff like that. And he had some of his art
• 2:06:28
  exhibited at like, different galleries and you know.
• 2:06:36
  He did this from 1970 to. 1977 and in 1977, he eventually moves
• 2:06:43
  to New York City. He works as a sculptor,
• 2:06:48
  Carpenter. You know, he also had a little
• 2:06:52
  bit of a criminal past himself. He shoplifted.
• 2:06:57
  It's just that was, yeah, that was like his thing.
• 2:07:01
  He would shoplift and I think where'd I get the quote from The
• 2:07:06
  wire and he got interviewed by the wire Wired say and Oh yeah,
• 2:07:12
  yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
• 2:07:14
  He was talking about how you said.
• 2:07:16
  The wire and my brain went to the TV.
• 2:07:18
  Show for a second My bad wire. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 2:07:23
  The. The.
• 2:07:24
  Journalist site, that. Covers kind of everything.
• 2:07:26
  It used to be just technology, but now they do everything.
• 2:07:28
  Yeah, yeah. But yeah, he got it.
• 2:07:32
  He interviewed with them. He talked about how he used to
• 2:07:34
  shoplift and how just like, it just seemed like it was
• 2:07:42
  juvenile. And like, he just felt really
• 2:07:45
  guilty about doing it at that time.
• 2:07:48
  Yeah, and. Like, I read this thing on
• 2:07:54
  Wikipedia. He made this art thing, like, so
• 2:07:56
  it was like he made this type of sculpture, right?
• 2:07:59
  And it was called Crime Time. It was like a freaking wheel.
• 2:08:02
  If you look on Wikipedia, it explains what it does.
• 2:08:05
  It has crime or you. Like you got away with a crime
• 2:08:08
  or you didn't get away with a crime, blah blah, you spin the
• 2:08:11
  wheel. You if it falls on you got away
• 2:08:14
  to crime, then you get a fucking marble or something.
• 2:08:17
  Then if you don't get away to crime, then you get locked into
• 2:08:20
  this thing for like a minute. And it was just like an art
• 2:08:24
  project that he did, which is, you know, yeah, it's really
• 2:08:27
  interesting. I read it like when I read it, I
• 2:08:29
  was like, oh, that's pretty cool.
• 2:08:30
  That's pretty cool. So.
• 2:08:35
  We get to 1980. Right, 1980, he has his idea.
• 2:08:40
  For a social experiment, slash our project, our experiment.
• 2:08:45
  It's sort of a hotline for people to apologize for things
• 2:08:49
  they've done in their lives. No judgment, no police.
• 2:08:54
  And like I read from the flyer earlier that was you guys can
• 2:08:59
  look it up if you. Want if you look.
• 2:09:01
  At it. It's it's something I think the
• 2:09:04
  I'm I'm pretty sure the number still works or that there's a
• 2:09:06
  different number, but I'll get it.
• 2:09:07
  Like I said anyway. So after he sets it up, after he
• 2:09:14
  sets, like he goes around, you know, New York City, he sets all
• 2:09:17
  these Flyers around around the city and the calls start rolling
• 2:09:23
  in. So he has, the way he has it set
• 2:09:28
  up is that in his apartment it's connected to an answering
• 2:09:32
  machine. So this is in his own personal
• 2:09:36
  part of it. And it's just the answer machine
• 2:09:39
  just sitting there and it just goes, you know, just he goes
• 2:09:43
  away, he comes back there, messages, and he just takes the
• 2:09:48
  tape out. He listens to him.
• 2:09:52
  As you decide. Which ones are good enough to go
• 2:09:54
  on TV? I.
• 2:09:55
  Don't think he. I don't think he.
• 2:09:57
  Discriminated against. I think he just played all of
• 2:10:00
  them. I mean, you want the juicy one,
• 2:10:02
  like the guy who? Does people of New York doesn't
• 2:10:05
  pick the like? Plain people.
• 2:10:07
  He picks people who say something crazy.
• 2:10:11
  OK, true, true. But his word like he was
• 2:10:16
  basically just it was for everybody.
• 2:10:19
  So he didn't care whatever, he just played it all.
• 2:10:25
  And this range from a caller who had witnessed a.
• 2:10:32
  A I guess a robbery in a bathroom and who did not report
• 2:10:36
  it or didn't do anything about it.
• 2:10:37
  He just, he just let it happen all the way up to murderers,
• 2:10:45
  child molesters, people who have just done terrible things.
• 2:10:52
  So if you are inclined there, look, so there's a podcast,
• 2:10:57
  right? It's it's called the apology
• 2:11:00
  line. It's all of somebody turn this
• 2:11:03
  into. So we wait.
• 2:11:05
  Did somebody just research this, or have they become the new
• 2:11:09
  apology line? It's the new apology line.
• 2:11:12
  But guess what? It's ran by his widow.
• 2:11:15
  Oh, OK, so they're. Still doing it?
• 2:11:20
  Yeah, basically. They never.
• 2:11:22
  OK. OK.
• 2:11:23
  Yeah. I'm not mad at that.
• 2:11:25
  This is it's. Weird I.
• 2:11:27
  Don't know if I would. Roll it in.
• 2:11:33
  You don't think that if you? Had something that was like
• 2:11:35
  weighing. Down on your chest that you like
• 2:11:38
  you like something that you really felt bad about.
• 2:11:41
  That you you wouldn't call in, you wouldn't like, want someone
• 2:11:45
  to talk to you about that besides.
• 2:11:49
  Besides. Like a priest.
• 2:11:52
  Besides, like a priest or somebody I have never done.
• 2:11:57
  Anything that bad? Neither have I, so we're good.
• 2:12:03
  But yeah, the apology. This is also why.
• 2:12:07
  People have therapy. This is true.
• 2:12:09
  This is true. Yeah, it's hosted by his widow.
• 2:12:13
  Her name is Marissa Bridge. So in the first episode, I
• 2:12:18
  listed it like the first episode because good research, yeah.
• 2:12:27
  She. Talks about, you know she just
• 2:12:29
  it's like the the bare bones is like she talks about how how
• 2:12:31
  they met you know things about Allen and stuff like that and
• 2:12:37
  sprinkles in between like this this episode there are recording
• 2:12:43
  the recordings of the of the phone calls the old one.
• 2:12:47
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, They're all like.
• 2:12:49
  And. Like some, it's a little hard to
• 2:12:52
  listen to some of them because of.
• 2:12:54
  How? Like, the quality is just a
• 2:12:56
  little shitty, but there's one. And.
• 2:13:03
  It's at the like close to the end of the episode where you
• 2:13:08
  know so, so this is what he would.
• 2:13:11
  Do okay he would. Like have like a dinner.
• 2:13:16
  Party or something like that, you know.
• 2:13:17
  You'd be hanging out with his friends and stuff at at his
• 2:13:19
  apartment and he'd be like. So let's see what apology has
• 2:13:24
  today. And just pop out.
• 2:13:26
  Like pop in a tape just for everybody, all his friends to
• 2:13:29
  listen to. Oh, I don't like.
• 2:13:34
  It. So there's this one tape that he
• 2:13:39
  played. For people start OK, I killed
• 2:13:44
  my. Baby brother when I was 14 years
• 2:13:46
  old. Like in the middle of a party.
• 2:13:49
  Look look. I.
• 2:13:51
  Can read some of the quotes and stuff.
• 2:13:54
  I don't really. I could not find any transcripts
• 2:13:56
  from these phone calls and I don't think I can play any of
• 2:13:59
  them on here because I don't own them.
• 2:14:01
  So yeah, yeah, I didn't think so, but it feels like that would
• 2:14:07
  be smart. Considering the widow.
• 2:14:08
  Is still in control of all this stuff true that we not.
• 2:14:11
  So yeah, yeah. How about we not do that?
• 2:14:16
  But there's. One there, there's one at the
• 2:14:19
  at. It's not the very end but it's
• 2:14:21
  you know by posted end of the episode.
• 2:14:24
  Let me see if I can pull it up. It's.
• 2:14:30
  It's in 1981. And is when he gets his phone
• 2:14:33
  call or just this, this blah, this message.
• 2:14:40
  On the apology line. Is it?
• 2:14:43
  No, actually, he's ready. Whatever.
• 2:14:48
  He gets his phone call and it's basically a death threat towards
• 2:14:52
  him, yeah. God.
• 2:14:57
  If I had saved it. My thing is, what if people
• 2:15:01
  heard it and they? Knew who it.
• 2:15:02
  Was. Like how many people ended up
• 2:15:07
  getting. So beat up.
• 2:15:10
  Because. Somebody was like I.
• 2:15:12
  Really have to just get this off of my trust.
• 2:15:14
  I've been sleeping with my friend's wife for three years
• 2:15:18
  and I think the baby is mine. And then that guy heard the call
• 2:15:22
  and knew it was his friend. And then be.
• 2:15:25
  His friend's. Ass I.
• 2:15:28
  Mean. That could because I mean some.
• 2:15:30
  People's voices are. This is true.
• 2:15:33
  Like you can probably tell. Well, I don't.
• 2:15:35
  Know I have my I have a telephone voice and then I have
• 2:15:37
  this voice so. Listen, if I was ever gonna call
• 2:15:42
  any one. Of those places I.
• 2:15:43
  Would have to have like a voice changer that was just like, I
• 2:15:47
  don't know, I wanna play like it would have to be like.
• 2:15:50
  I'd have to have like the. Saw voice.
• 2:15:52
  Or something jigsaw be here. Oh my God, yeah, I'd have to use
• 2:15:55
  like. One of those like voice changer.
• 2:15:57
  Machines turn the, you know, jigsaw.
• 2:15:59
  I just wouldn't put myself in a position to get rocked like.
• 2:16:08
  Saying, I also don't sleep with my best friend's cousins.
• 2:16:11
  Uncle's dad. So, OK, you know, so all.
• 2:16:15
  Right. You got the story, yeah.
• 2:16:16
  So. It's it's like so.
• 2:16:18
  There's one caller, he. Calls, and he sounds pretty
• 2:16:21
  freaking manic, OK? And he goes on about.
• 2:16:27
  You know how he. Would mug people in how at first
• 2:16:31
  he started feeling guilty about it, but then, like now that he's
• 2:16:34
  called this apology line, he's starting to, like, reconsider.
• 2:16:38
  Feeling guilty about it because he's getting off his chest now,
• 2:16:41
  you know what I mean? Like a confessional type of
• 2:16:43
  thing. So the quotes it.
• 2:16:49
  He quotes it says The opportunity you've given me to
• 2:16:52
  apologize and tell these people that I'm sorry, it's it's
• 2:16:55
  fantastic. And I could go out tonight and
• 2:16:59
  start mugging again is and. Like.
• 2:17:07
  And like. Close to the end of this phone
• 2:17:09
  call, because this phone call was pretty fucking long.
• 2:17:13
  It was like I think 7 minutes is what they said on the episode
• 2:17:18
  and. Towards the end of the.
• 2:17:20
  The phone call, he goes. This is to whoever is writing
• 2:17:27
  this thing. I will find out who you are and
• 2:17:33
  he's like he's saying it and. In not an angry way, but he's
• 2:17:37
  saying it in. Like a really.
• 2:17:38
  Really manic way, like he's like, he's happy, He's happily
• 2:17:42
  saying this to this person, yes. He's like.
• 2:17:47
  I will find you. And believe me, I will kill you
• 2:17:53
  like I'm going to kill you. And it's it's going to be okay,
• 2:17:57
  right? Because then I'll just apologize
• 2:17:59
  and then it'll be all right. So as long as someone accepts my
• 2:18:03
  apology then it would be OK. I.
• 2:18:12
  Heard this? When I heard it.
• 2:18:14
  I was like, Oh my God. This is terrible.
• 2:18:22
  Oh my. God, yeah.
• 2:18:30
  I'm pretty like it says that he has he's.
• 2:18:32
  Gotten other that that stress but that was like that's the one
• 2:18:36
  that I I don't want to hear any other ones that's like how they
• 2:18:41
  go because that's that was bad that gave me chills when I first
• 2:18:46
  heard. It and I was like.
• 2:18:49
  Yeah, that's rough. There's a, There's a.
• 2:18:54
  Person who called, I guess it was a prankster or somebody
• 2:18:56
  called is like. So it's like they did a poem
• 2:19:00
  type of. Thing and it.
• 2:19:01
  Goes you've raved and raved. That I'm.
• 2:19:05
  Depraved the son of Sam in a frying pan.
• 2:19:10
  But can you guess who I have? So.
• 2:19:18
  Apparently one of his. Callers may have.
• 2:19:21
  Been like Son of Sam, oh. Interesting.
• 2:19:28
  That is a speculation that had happened.
• 2:19:26
  Yeah, yeah. Definitely intriguing.
• 2:19:36
  Alright, but yeah, like after a while a.
• 2:19:42
  Lot of these calls stopped sounding like they're trying to
• 2:19:45
  apologize and they are starting to sound more like they were
• 2:19:49
  bragging about what they did and you know how.
• 2:19:56
  Serial killers or murderers, you know, you know, you know, they
• 2:20:00
  just want. Yeah, that's exactly what I was
• 2:20:02
  thinking about. Yeah, it's.
• 2:20:03
  Just like they want, they want people.
• 2:20:05
  To know what they did and a lot of his.
• 2:20:10
  Friends started to drift away because.
• 2:20:13
  Like, like I said, he will play these tapes for them and then
• 2:20:15
  they just, like, be worried about and like, are you OK,
• 2:20:18
  dude? Like you're listening to these
• 2:20:20
  tapes like every day, and these the stories that these people
• 2:20:24
  are telling you. Like, imagine.
• 2:20:27
  Imagine, Brittany. Imagine.
• 2:20:31
  Like when we were recording at your apartment and.
• 2:20:34
  I just be coming over with these.
• 2:20:37
  This whole thing of voicemails of people is leaving these
• 2:20:42
  confessions to me and we just be listening to them.
• 2:20:47
  I wouldn't. Ah, no thank you, Sir.
• 2:20:54
  What you feel like wouldn't? You be like a little concerned?
• 2:20:57
  About you like my mental state, like, right?
• 2:21:01
  I would be concerned for you, concerned for me.
• 2:21:07
  I'd be like why? Why is this going on?
• 2:21:09
  Like, it's a cool thing, but you know what?
• 2:21:12
  Like it's well, it's interesting.
• 2:21:15
  I think all of this stuff is a little consuming for us.
• 2:21:18
  Do you find yourself spending a lot?
• 2:21:22
  Of time on what we do, of course.
• 2:21:29
  And so, like, there's at one point when, like, you know, I
• 2:21:32
  got sick in January. Yeah, me.
• 2:21:33
  I got. Cat died.
• 2:21:40
  Like there's a bunch of stuff happened.
• 2:21:42
  And I was just like, I can only do the podcast right now.
• 2:21:45
  And I kind of, like dropped off on TikTok, and I've been trying
• 2:21:48
  to get back into doing that. But this is a very overwhelming,
• 2:21:51
  like all of this stuff is overwhelmed.
• 2:21:53
  Yeah, it didn't occur to me that.
• 2:21:55
  Like, on average now I'm reading like multiple books a week for
• 2:21:59
  this. I'm always researching and
• 2:22:02
  writing stuff and it's it's pretty much my entire life.
• 2:22:05
  Yeah, yeah. And and.
• 2:22:12
  I guess like on one hand you feel like, like people tell me
• 2:22:16
  that they like go to sleep listening to podcasts or
• 2:22:20
  listening to Tick Tocks or the YouTube channel.
• 2:22:30
  You know that we have for it and things of that nature but other
• 2:22:34
  times it's just it's really stressful and so I don't I
• 2:22:37
  absolutely. And so that's such a high
• 2:22:24
  compliment because I do that to other creators stuff, right?
• 2:22:27
  Yeah, same. And people like the.
• 2:22:38
  Identify with him getting overwhelmed by that like he it's
• 2:22:44
  it's so. Much show that like recently I
• 2:22:47
  was talking to somebody online and he was like, oh, he wanted
• 2:22:51
  to like know more about the job. And I was just like, I don't
• 2:22:53
  want to talk about the job, no, the.
• 2:22:57
  Job is enough. For me that I talk about it
• 2:22:59
  while I'm doing it. I don't want to sit here and
• 2:23:02
  talk to crime with you in my free time.
• 2:23:05
  Can we talk about anything else please, like and I didn't
• 2:23:09
  realize that that happened until that moment for me, that I have
• 2:23:12
  created a very strong line in the sand of through crime life.
• 2:23:19
  Rest of life in order for me to be OK with this.
• 2:23:23
  And for my mental health to be great, so you can, so you could
• 2:23:26
  say, saying absolutely. So I think maybe his issue was
• 2:23:30
  that he. Did not create that line in the
• 2:23:32
  sand. He did not, because this was his
• 2:23:34
  entire fucking life. And that's unfortunate, because
• 2:23:37
  he started to do. Something good and he was
• 2:23:39
  intrigued by by what people would say and what they would do
• 2:23:43
  but it. It was just like it.
• 2:23:48
  Just started taking. Over his life.
• 2:23:50
  So it's a lot. After a.
• 2:23:58
  I think it went on for. About 15 years.
• 2:24:04
  Yeah, the his this line that the phone number that's on the on
• 2:24:08
  the flyer, it stayed up for about 15 years.
• 2:24:19
  Right. It was active until he died.
• 2:24:20
  You did say that he passed away and not his widow runs things or
• 2:24:24
  runs a. It's probably not as intent.
• 2:24:31
  It's all about the apology line. It's the podcast.
• 2:24:29
  It's all about this, this apology.
• 2:24:35
  He passed and. OK, I had.
• 2:24:38
  A year? Hold on a second, he passed in.
• 2:24:41
  1995. So yeah, it stopped like
• 2:24:46
  basically when he died and but they had a consistent amount of
• 2:24:51
  people doing it for that long, people calling in.
• 2:24:56
  Oh yeah. Oh, absolutely.
• 2:24:58
  Like, oh wow, there there are people calling in like basically
• 2:25:03
  every fucking day. That's that's intriguing to me.
• 2:25:09
  So there. OK, there's this type of.
• 2:25:15
  I don't know. I'm going.
• 2:25:16
  To say it's a. Conspiracy type of thing, but it
• 2:25:18
  was kind of a conspiracy type of thing when this was going on.
• 2:25:22
  So he had this caller. I guess they would.
• 2:25:25
  Called regularly, maybe 00, they created a friendship of.
• 2:25:31
  Soar and his name was Richie. And apparently Richie was a some
• 2:25:38
  type of serial killer who wouldn't go after gay men, and
• 2:25:42
  that was a thing people did. Yeah, gotcha.
• 2:25:46
  And, you know, learn about the clubs.
• 2:25:49
  And stuff and then murder them. But.
• 2:25:59
  What I. Got from this article.
• 2:26:01
  That I was reading. Is that Richie ended up being a
• 2:26:07
  fake? A fraud like.
• 2:26:11
  OK, that makes. Sense you just want the.
• 2:26:13
  Attention, yeah, like is there, were like.
• 2:26:16
  I know he, like, he got a lot of pranksters calling in, you know?
• 2:26:29
  Side note, still creepy. Of course, you know you got a
• 2:26:20
  lot of people calling in, like being silly and shit.
• 2:26:24
  But this one? But he thought this was real.
• 2:26:27
  But this was just somebody's fantasy.
• 2:26:31
  Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 2:26:33
  And there. Were there were a couple calls
• 2:26:37
  from child runaways as well? Is that, you know, they're
• 2:26:41
  calling in like a pause, just get their stuff off their chest.
• 2:26:45
  Yeah, I'm sure they felt sad. I mean, just not sad but, you
• 2:26:48
  know, guilty. Yeah, yeah, it was.
• 2:26:52
  Pretty bad. But so I was going, I was going
• 2:26:56
  to go into his murder. Not his murder.
• 2:26:58
  His death. Because he didn't get murdered,
• 2:27:00
  obviously. He kind of he did get murdered.
• 2:27:05
  OK, so. He was killed.
• 2:27:09
  When he was scuba diving and he got.
• 2:27:14
  It was. A.
• 2:27:20
  It was a hit. Hit and.
• 2:27:20
  And run Jet Ski operator. So someone was someone was
• 2:27:26
  riding, riding a jet ski and as they ran over him when he was
• 2:27:33
  scuba diving or I guess yeah and.
• 2:27:40
  I That's just a terrible way to go.
• 2:27:43
  First of all, wow. Yeah, that's wow.
• 2:27:47
  So I got for you on that one. Wonder how often that happens in
• 2:27:55
  the world. God, I have no idea.
• 2:27:57
  But I don't want it to happen anymore.
• 2:28:00
  But yeah, he he got so there was like a.
• 2:28:05
  A thing going on after this happened and they'd asked his,
• 2:28:09
  you know, his widows and like, So what if this, this jet ski
• 2:28:13
  person had like called the apology line And you know what?
• 2:28:19
  I mean what they called. After they hit, you know,
• 2:28:23
  murdered him and they, you know, had said, you know, I ran over
• 2:28:26
  this person with my jet ski and I ran away, didn't stay at the
• 2:28:30
  scene and. And I feel terrible about it and
• 2:28:34
  I'm pretty sure they died because of it.
• 2:28:37
  And and you know what? If she would have, what?
• 2:28:41
  If she heard. That and she got that, you know,
• 2:28:44
  that call. She heard that call.
• 2:28:45
  Like, would she be able to forgive this person because they
• 2:28:49
  called in. What did she?
• 2:28:53
  Say I think I do hold on, Probably not.
• 2:29:04
  I don't think she. Said that she she would.
• 2:29:10
  She would not for. She would forgive them, the
• 2:29:13
  person because, you know, that's the apology line they've
• 2:29:18
  forgiven. That's another thing.
• 2:29:31
  I have a I have a very small. List of things of of people who
• 2:29:35
  have done something bad enough to me that I actually really
• 2:29:40
  want. Like deeply want their apology
• 2:29:43
  for it. And the problem is I don't know
• 2:29:47
  if it's enough. Like I don't know if an apology
• 2:29:50
  would. Even matter at that point.
• 2:29:54
  Something that big it's. Yeah, it's so.
• 2:30:01
  I do have a quote from her from from this this this interview
• 2:30:05
  that she you know where this question that someone gave her
• 2:30:08
  and she says that the person knew it was an accident and that
• 2:30:14
  it wasn't his fault. He could have.
• 2:30:18
  He couldn't have predicted A scuba diver were surfaced at the
• 2:30:22
  that moment right in front of him.
• 2:30:24
  Maybe the person was really young and gave into the impulse
• 2:30:27
  to run away rather than stay face things.
• 2:30:30
  I'm sure whoever they are, they are sorry.
• 2:30:33
  So that's what she says about that.
• 2:30:40
  But the like I said, the apology line, it's still up and running.
• 2:30:48
  I I do believe it's a different number, but it's still a New
• 2:30:50
  York number, New York area, New York's.
• 2:30:52
  Saturday City area code, the 215.
• 2:30:55
  Whatever area code. If you want to give them a call,
• 2:31:00
  look them up. If you have something you get
• 2:31:04
  off your chest. Maybe we'll hear you one day on
• 2:31:10
  their podcast because there are quite a few episodes and they do
• 2:31:15
  have a YouTube video the. YouTube channel too with.
• 2:31:18
  The the podcast on it. And they they give the number
• 2:31:21
  out on there just in case people want to call and and you know,
• 2:31:28
  get their confess to whatever they need to confess to if you
• 2:31:33
  don't want to go to a confessional to talk to a
• 2:31:37
  priest. But.
• 2:31:43
  You know I did I I. Did find it's like really
• 2:31:46
  interesting to look into just. Because of, like, So it started
• 2:31:52
  off as like, I'm not even sure if he thought he'd get a lot of
• 2:31:56
  calls in the beginning, but then it just freaking exploded.
• 2:32:02
  Apparently a lot of people in New York had a lot of stuff to
• 2:32:05
  get off the chest at this in the 80s.
• 2:32:07
  I wonder why? Because 80s, eighty and it's
• 2:32:16
  just like. God.
• 2:32:19
  Like I met Okay. So it is going wrong.
• 2:32:20
  It's going on today, but you know what I mean.
• 2:32:23
  Just like. What if there was a serial
• 2:32:29
  killer out? There today.
• 2:32:30
  And they're just like, you know what, this is starting to weigh
• 2:32:32
  down on me and I just need to talk to somebody about this
• 2:32:37
  without repercussions. And this is that was a way.
• 2:32:44
  This is a way. You know, it's funny.
• 2:32:47
  He did get calls from the cops to like hand over some of like I
• 2:32:51
  think one of the tapes because of a I think it was a Ritchie
• 2:32:57
  thing. I'm pretty sure it was a Ritchie
• 2:32:59
  thing because he said it sounded like the cop said it sounded
• 2:33:02
  like some person who was going around and doing it like it was
• 2:33:07
  sounded like something that was actually happening in in the
• 2:33:10
  vicinity, in the area. So you know he what?
• 2:33:16
  What Alan did was that he went on a radio station and and he
• 2:33:23
  played this tape. He's like, so he he told the cop
• 2:33:25
  he's like, I can't give you the tape but here's what I'm going
• 2:33:28
  to do. I want to play this on the radio
• 2:33:31
  and if you want to hear it again just listen to the radio.
• 2:33:39
  So that's that's that's what he did and.
• 2:33:47
  Like and like he he's, he played.
• 2:33:49
  This for a lot of people, and he is, he wrote.
• 2:33:52
  He wrote his own fan magazine about all the about all the
• 2:34:00
  calls that he received, and I'm pretty sure he transcribed him
• 2:34:03
  on to this magazine, which I cannot find for the life of me.
• 2:34:11
  Way out of print the. Probably magazines are exactly
• 2:34:14
  making the notes to. Money.
• 2:34:15
  Look here, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go on.
• 2:34:18
  Archive.org and then check it out and check and see if it's on
• 2:34:23
  there. That might be the place to find
• 2:34:25
  it, because they're like there's another book written about it
• 2:34:27
  and something about the. Apollo it's titled something
• 2:34:29
  Apology. I don't know.
• 2:34:30
  Apology line. But well, when I.
• 2:34:35
  Just googled it. When you first brought it up, it
• 2:34:37
  said the apology project. That might be it.
• 2:34:42
  Yeah, I guess that's. What they referred to it as.
• 2:34:44
  In the beginning, like a project?
• 2:34:46
  Yeah, yeah, it was our project. Interesting.
• 2:34:54
  But yeah. That's what I got.
• 2:34:58
  Any. Thoughts.
• 2:35:00
  How would you feel about? Well, you said you wouldn't do
• 2:35:04
  it. You wouldn't call.
• 2:35:05
  You don't have anything to confess that's that bad.
• 2:35:10
  What if the things that keep? Me, the things that keep.
• 2:35:12
  Me up are things that I didn't say.
• 2:35:17
  To the people who are no longer here.
• 2:35:21
  Sorry to bring. You down, I mean.
• 2:35:23
  But like I mean that could be so.
• 2:35:26
  That. Like saying that out loud
• 2:35:27
  doesn't help me and it doesn't help the person who I didn't.
• 2:35:33
  Apologize to before they died, you know, I mean, like.
• 2:35:38
  My list of regrets is. Weird, no?
• 2:35:44
  I get it, yeah. I get.
• 2:35:45
  And most of the time, I tell people how I feel about them.
• 2:35:48
  Almost all of the time this. Is true.
• 2:35:53
  So. Well, that's just it was a
• 2:35:56
  conscious decision I made in learning about like,
• 2:35:59
  communication and stuff as as a woman and deciding that I wanted
• 2:36:06
  to present myself in a certain way.
• 2:36:12
  It's weird because. People meet me and they
• 2:36:14
  instantly feel close to me because I am so open to them
• 2:36:17
  about a lot of things. But they're things that I don't
• 2:36:19
  consider to be like secrets. Like I I'll mention like
• 2:36:22
  randomly that I was like adopted by other family members and
• 2:36:26
  they're like you told me about your adoption and I'm.
• 2:36:28
  Like, I don't care. 34 It's not that exciting as the story goes,
• 2:36:39
  but they feel like I've they feel like I have really like
• 2:36:45
  Expressed. Myself deeply.
• 2:36:48
  And it's it's weird, bizarre stuff.
• 2:36:51
  That people close to me know that probably wouldn't trip
• 2:36:54
  other people up, but has me like, oh, this sucks.
• 2:36:59
  So I don't know. I just can't.
• 2:37:01
  I don't know. I don't think I've done anything
• 2:37:03
  bad enough to even need to be on there.
• 2:37:04
  Yeah, I don't know. I.
• 2:37:08
  Do feel like it's a good. Like something that needs to be
• 2:37:13
  around, even if like the cops. Are involved with.
• 2:37:18
  It, but it's like and people don't feel like comfortable
• 2:37:21
  going somewhere else, like talk to a therapist or something like
• 2:37:26
  that. It's like.
• 2:37:27
  You know, a lot of people don't have people.
• 2:37:31
  Yeah, exactly. And I remember years.
• 2:37:34
  Ago when the The Free Hugs project happened in New York, a
• 2:37:39
  friend of mine. Was was working there for a
• 2:37:42
  while and actually said that it was overwhelming for her.
• 2:37:46
  How many people like would give her a hug and just saw?
• 2:37:51
  She said there are so many people who are touch starved and
• 2:37:55
  would say like this is the first time that I've like touched
• 2:37:58
  another human being in. Months.
• 2:38:01
  God like. We are a strangely.
• 2:38:06
  Separate culture. It's part of our culture to be
• 2:38:09
  like isolated. Almost like other cultures.
• 2:38:16
  Like believe in like having multi generational houses and
• 2:38:19
  things of that nature. I would say that your family's
• 2:38:22
  probably a little bit better. You could visit the
• 2:38:23
  grandparents, like weekly. Yeah, things of that nature, but
• 2:38:27
  A. Lot of people don't.
• 2:38:28
  I mean, I don't. I just have me and my friends.
• 2:38:31
  I mean, my closest living relative is 40 minutes away.
• 2:38:35
  But we don't. Really talk that much.
• 2:38:38
  I should call them more. A lot of people are.
• 2:38:43
  Like that in this country and like we believe that like as
• 2:38:46
  soon as you turn 18, you move out and then you're grown up and
• 2:38:48
  you're by yourself. And like other countries don't
• 2:38:51
  do that. They stay together forever.
• 2:38:54
  Yeah, yeah. Then they bring their.
• 2:38:57
  Parents into their house and then the kids.
• 2:39:01
  Grow up with their grandparents and so you maybe you don't feel
• 2:39:04
  as alone or you don't need something like that in another
• 2:39:07
  place because you have that that.
• 2:39:11
  Support in your life. That's very it's.
• 2:39:17
  Very nicely said, I like it anyway.
• 2:39:22
  Thanks a bunch for being. And yeah, thank you guys for
• 2:39:24
  listening this week. Stupidity for extra long episode
• 2:39:28
  because I don't know. When to stop?
• 2:39:35
  It's all good. Have a good weekend.
• 2:39:37
  Bye, bye.