Latest / Frap Rap with GDogggggggg / Ep 8: Steve Governale (Governaleus)

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Ep 8: Steve Governale (Governaleus) · Frap Rap with GDogggggggg

• The Mediaocean Podcast Network: Welcome to Frap Rap. I'm your host, Aaron Goldman, aka G, the artist formerly known on AOL Instant Messenger as G Dog with eight Gs. Yes, one through seven were taken. Twenty-five years ago, I was an AE in an ad network called L90, and my biggest client was Starcom IP. Every Thursday, I'd invite everyone in Chicago at 35 West Whacker to meet me at the cozy across the street for coffee. And for each person that came, I would do a freestyle rap about them, hence the name, Frap Rap. Each episode I track down another OGI peer to reminisce about the good old days and see what they're up to now. My guest today is Steve Governalli. Big gov. Welcome to Frap Rat. AG, good to see you, man, man. How are you? I am doing great. So excited to have you on. ⁓ we just recorded with Aaron Petty, so kind of keeping it in the great state of Texas. But let's start there. Tell us ⁓ exactly where you are ⁓ at the moment. Yeah, so I'm in ⁓ I'm in Dallas. We actually moved here from Chicago. God, it's been 18 years ⁓ that that we've we've been down here. So it's been a great place to raise a family. we're loving it. It's right on and just yeah, I mean it's it's you know almost August, so it's hot. Yeah, and I'm guessing that whatever that big orb ⁓ over your head is, ⁓ that's now turned off. You probably don't need any additional ⁓ lighter energy ⁓ raining down on you. We don't need any more heat sources in here. Right on. So ⁓ when I was chatting with Erin, she actually mentioned that you were one of the reasons she moved down there. You were kind of, you know, ⁓ telling her how how you know great it was. And ⁓ so so we'll make why don't we actually start there? Most episodes we kind of start by teleporting back to the IP days and working our way through linearly, but maybe let's start sort of in the middle of your story and then we'll back up. ⁓ what ⁓ you know, how how did you end up ⁓ in Dallas? What what brought you out there and ⁓ and actually th let's actually do this. This will be fun. We'll go off script here. ⁓ take us through like ⁓ from moving to where you are now, and then we'll back up ⁓ all the way to the VS. Awesome. Yeah. So honestly, like we we sort of got the itch to move. We had our first kid and both my wife and I, both our families were from Texas, right? And so we're like, ⁓ maybe it's maybe be nice to be a little closer to family. And so ⁓ you know, just started looking looking for opportunities down down here in Texas and ended up taking a role at ATT, ⁓ which was moving their headquarters To Dallas at at the same time, right? So this is 2008. and so yeah, we we packed up, rented a minivan and drove down. ⁓ and and you know, have been here since. ⁓ I I was with ATT for three and a half years, did a little bit of time on the sales side with ⁓ with Meta and Snap. ⁓ and then and then ultimately sort of did like came full circle ⁓ back to the back to the agency world. So I'm I'm at PMG now. ⁓ and and I was with a another firm, Camelot, that got acquired by PMG three ish years ago. so man, it's been a ride. It's been a ride. It's been you know, it's been it's been pretty awesome. Right on. ⁓ definitely want to talk Camelot, PMG, ⁓ Sam George, a couple ⁓ great great folks that that you you you've been engaged with. ⁓ But let's start back to ATT and then ⁓ yes, I promise all our listeners who want the IP stories, we'll get to them. And of course with USMG search, we a lot to unpack there. Yeah. But what when you ⁓ so a ATT, was that your first like client side was that moving from AC to client side? Yeah, but I mean first and only and what was that like? It was actually it was great. ⁓ you know, so we kind of at the time ⁓ you know, it ATT, if you think about the business, right? It's a a lot of different business units. There was sort of, you know, each of them had kind of marketing functions. There was not really a centralized media function within ATT. And so, ⁓ we got to really stand that up, right? ⁓ and I was leading the digital side of it. and so, you know, I got to hire some people. Petty was one of the one of the first, ⁓ the first of those. And ⁓ you know, we had a fun run there. Right. I mean, it's a big company, right? Like there's always nuance with those types of things. But we got to l do a lot of great work on behalf of all the brands. And you know, it's always fun just building stuff, right? And being able to start a team and bring in people that you like and you can trust and you know do great work. ⁓ and so did you bring in ⁓ did you have an agency at the time and did did you do a full RFP and and make a switch? Yeah, no no, I mean so so we did we worked with ⁓ Media Column out of New York, and you know, w which was also fun, right? Like I mean, you know, w obviously you spend a lot of time in an agency and and you get, you know, you get really sort of bought in on the principles and what makes one agency different than another. And and obviously there are new there are differences, but Getting to meet a whole new team and a different sort of part of the industry. And ⁓ you know, we established a lot of great relationships there, some of which, you know, I I'm still in touch with today. So we never we never did like an RFP thing or any of that. ⁓ but it, you know, it was fun. And and you know, you you also get a sense for like having been on the agency side for a long time, like what did I like in clients? What drove me crazy in clients? And so how do I try to be a good client, right? Yeah. ⁓ and so you know, it's it's all good learning experience. Yeah, a lot of empathy there. I I do I think a lot of agency folks, you know, when they think about ⁓ you know, it'd be great to be on the client side, calling the shots, you know, and and turning the table. But then when you get there, you're like, actually I'm gonna be like the nicest client ever because I know what it was like. and and not dissimilar to folks that go to the sales side ⁓ from agency side and you know, now all of a sudden your rep, maybe you got an expense account to do fancy things like buy two dollar coffees at Cozy, as the as the case may be. ⁓ but I I really feel like starting in agency world, getting that mindset, getting exposure across a bunch of different accounts, seeing different clients, different campaigns, objectives, it's such a great place to to start your your career. Do you do you think that holds true today for people just getting into the industry? Man, without without a doubt, ⁓ as a matter of fact, so so at PMG we have a we have a a great program called ⁓ GLP, ⁓ graduate leadership program. And it's it's it's not entirely different from you know, how the PIT used to work at StarCom, right? Where they'd they'd hire and sort of, you know, in in mass, right? You you bring in a bunch of people at a time and you cross-train them and, you know, all those types of things. It it's obviously different a little bit today because the hiring process is so different, right? Like we get tens of thousands of applicants for this, right? And and obviously it it affords us the opportunity to be you know, ⁓ to be picky a little bit in terms of who you bring in just because you, you know, there's there's so many people that that want to be part of it. But I, you know, so I get I get a chance to meet with them, you know, when when these new classes come in. And that's always one of the things that I tell them is like you're going to get exposure to a lot of different business types. You know, you're gonna get a lot of exposure to a lot of different sort of ways in which we go to market, different brands go to market. ⁓ and I also tell them, you know, which I think This is this is sort of probably part of what we're here to talk about, right? Is, you know, take advantage of like enjoy the relationships, right? Like these early relationships, ⁓ you know, sort of at the start of your career where you don't have a lot of things tugging at you outside of work, right? ⁓ you know, family commitments, like those types of things. You know, I said, you're gonna, you're gonna know these, you're gonna find a few people here that you're gonna know for a long time and are gonna become very good friends to you. ⁓ so yeah, I mean I still I still think agency is a great place to start for a number of reasons. Yeah. And yeah, great advice. I mean, it it's ⁓ in some ways similar to when, you know, we were coming up, ⁓ you were spending all our time around these people. So you're building these, you know, friendships and bonds that that carry through. In some ways, of course, it's a lot different because now you have remote hybrid sort of culture and so it's not literally like you're spending a hundred hours in an office sitting next to the same person. But but the same, the principle applies. Like la latch on to the people that that you're getting to know, ⁓ because those are the bonds that are gonna carry you through for sure. Yeah. Absolutely. ⁓ so let's go back to so let's teleport back to those days ⁓ and and take us through it. So so when did you start at StarCom and what withdrawal at the time? So I started there January of ninety nine. ⁓ God, do I have to date myself like that? All good. You're you're still you're you're well within the range of people we've had on so far. ⁓ but yeah, January ninety nine. And I mean, I think at the time it was like Rashad and Tim. and you know, I was part of like one of those, hey, we're gonna bring in fifty people and you know, staff different parts of the business, right? ⁓ one of those So you came in straight to IP. I did, yeah. And ⁓ I mean, I don't know if you if Harris is gonna participate in this thing or not, but ⁓ we'll get him. You know it'll be entertaining, but so he always tells so I I before actually before I moved to Chicago, I was in New York for a minute, like year and a half. ⁓ but I worked for this company that was building like online, like basically early internet games, right? All desktop driven, whatever. ⁓ and the name of the company was Cyber Sapien Entertainment, right? ⁓ and so Harris, you know, Harris got a stack of resumes like that he could pull from, like, all right, who do I want to have in the group? And he always jokes, and Rashad still tells this joke that I that I worked for a porn site, and that's why they brought me in. And ⁓ it was not, I promise. It was a g it was a gaming site. But Harris says that was one re one thing that stood out on my resume, and the other was that I was president of my fraternity. And so, you know, he was like, You're a frat guy, like, you know, we'll be fine, but Anyway, ⁓ but yeah, man, so that was where it started. And, you know, ⁓ I I could have ended up in any group within Starcom, but you know, I I've obviously consider myself ⁓ fortunate to have landed in IP. And ⁓ what do you remember what account you were first working on? ⁓ gosh. man, I I don't remember what was first. I just remember like a lot, you know. ⁓ I remember just, you know, it felt like we were kind of like, okay, now this This person's they're trying to get into digital, and this person's trying to get into digital. ⁓ and so, you know, I remember early days like GM, ⁓ Nintendo. I did a little bit on Kellogg's. We had a small piece of some McDonald's business. ⁓ and then, you know, we had some some random like stuff like network solutions. I'm sure you were yeah. That's all. Yeah. Which was kind of an amazing like sub team within ⁓ within IP and and actually was like I think in a lot of cases where people really started getting smart in the search world, right? Like I mean, they were so search driven. And ⁓ anyway, you know, you learn something new on every one of those businesses. But those are the ones that stood out to me. We had a we had a brand called Heidelberg, which was also super random. They made like commercial printing presses. I remember that we sold you the L ninety tech channel. Yeah. Yes. That's I mean, that's a good memory. ⁓ but I mean, you know, like it was just it was it was a total like broad array of stuff. ⁓ and it was, you know, as we were saying, like, you know, it's one of the benefits of agency life is you just you get you get to see a lot of different things early. Yeah. ⁓ well we'll we'll we're gonna catch up to the the search and SMG ⁓ days in just a bit. ⁓ first I gotta show you I still I still have my Rolodex with all the business cards. And sure enough, ⁓ I've got you here. Amazing. Look at that. So let's see. You were an associate director at the time. And in the bottom of ⁓ all my cards, because we didn't have like Salesforce to like type in our notes. I wrote down ⁓ where I met you. So this was 121102 with LH, which I think stands for Lee Hoffman. A shout out to Lee Hoffman, the Iceman ⁓ from L90. and I didn't write down what account ⁓ you were on at the time, so we can't ⁓ fact checking what you said, but I also have my org chart ⁓ from two thousand five and I can tell you at this point ⁓ you were running ⁓ net soul and you had a big team ⁓ with you for net network solutions ⁓ nintendo ⁓ us army yeah absolutely you you had a big you had a big remit. ⁓ and IP search so it's so interestingly IP search was a a row in the middle of the proper org chart you weren't yet moved down to the bottom where like the new group sort of broke out. ⁓ IP search. ⁓ so actually let's so let's get into that. ⁓ so so ⁓ I'll give my side of ⁓ of the story and then we'll we'll match it up with yours. So L90 ⁓ merged with DoubleClick Media. We became Max Online. And ⁓ so we went from sort of an ad network selling a bunch of you know standard placements, banners, pop-ups, emails, etc. ⁓ to ⁓ when ⁓ well at the time it was overture, right? And then and then go to and then Yahoo. ⁓ and then of course Google came on and ⁓ search became the the hot new format. Of course, you you know, the keyword targeting, the ability for direct response accounts like network solutions, it was ⁓ you know, it was the best possible ⁓ money you could spend in terms of ROI. And so we created a unit called Max Search as part of Max Online. And basically we were ⁓ ultimately brokering clicks ⁓ because search ⁓ you know hadn't been born as a function yet. Folks like IP didn't have specialists for it. And so we would basically sell you keywords on a flat cost per click. ⁓ and then ⁓ we would manage the keyword buys, we would manage the keyword lists, ⁓ we would do the optimization, the bidding, and then ultimately you and the clients would get j you would just, you know, you would have your trackers in and you would just see the ROI. And it was like what you got back from that was like, I don't know, ten to one off of ⁓ you know, what you might find off a banner ad. ⁓ but when Max ⁓ online got bought, first we got bought by the Excite network. ⁓ then we got bought by Ask Jeeves. And when Ask Jeeves came in, they said, It's awesome that you're doing all this ⁓ search business, ⁓ working with folks like Starcom and all their accounts. Instead of Google and Yahoo, can you just run all those keywords on Ask? And I was kinda like, sorry, Mr. Butler. I if I bought every keyword on Ask Jeans, no matter how targeted ⁓ relevant to the client it was, I couldn't fill these orders. Net so was doing a million dollars in search every quarter. Like there was no inventory on on asked for that. And ⁓ so that's ⁓ when I ended up ⁓ leaving the go start resolution and that was right around the same time I think when you started SMG Search and you said, Hey, this is a a capability we need to have house. But I don't want to put words in your mouth. Kind of wh how how how was it ⁓ born on your side? Yeah, no, I mean, ⁓ that's a that's a great you have great recall on that stuff. ⁓ So, you know, I I guess my sort of my earliest memories on this, we're really on the nets all business, right? And it became it became like, okay, we're doing this and like, you know, everybody was kind of still figuring so much shit out back then, which was the genius of it, right? And and yet I know we're gonna get to this a little bit in terms of what made that stuff so special, but it really was a lot of the figuring it out, you know. ⁓ I I always remember, you know, Rashad Had Larry and Sergey come into our office when we were I don't I don't remember how big IP was, but I would say there were probably 15 people in the room from our team, which you know IP got to be much larger than that. ⁓ but he had them come in and I remember being like, I don't know who these, you know, none of us really knew them, but Rashad was like, Yeah, these guys are kind of onto something. And ⁓ anyway, they s they came up to our conference room on the 14th floor and Sat at the conference table and just kind of talked to us about how their search engine was different than, you know, the way others worked. And you're like, all right, cool. But anyway, obviously, you know, that that became what it's become. ⁓ but I mean, you know, so Netzall was was kind of how we got our footing in the practice of search for sure. and then, you know, Kurt Hecht, ⁓ I'm sure you remember, I mean, he, you know, he'd he'd obviously done a tremendous job leading the GM business. ⁓ for for years and you know we got an opportunity to go do it for them which they they'd been doing some of it but not really with a practice but I mean that became sort of the the fuel that allows us allowed us to really build a team and a discipline and you know IP search became like a practice right ⁓ and then you know Kevin Lang, Paul DeJarnet like you know it was kind of Some form of the three of us. There were a lot of there were a lot of people. Kurt Anna got a stopless. Yeah. ⁓ the man the man who broke broke the org chart with how long his name was. Kurt, yeah. I mean, so he was I think he was like one of our like our first outside hire and he's an awesome guy. I don't know if you've ⁓ kept in touch with him, but he's he went on to build his own search business and I think has done quite well. But ⁓ anyway ⁓ so yeah, I mean, you know, that team ended up becoming like sixty people. It was sixty people when I left, right? I don't know what it w where it finally knitted out, but ⁓ you know, we had a good we had a good business there. And it was I mean, know, that that was again, just some of the real fun is just, you know, in a few handful of years it became a a real practice with real knowledge and, you know, tools and all that kind of stuff. And it was fun. Yeah. Well, and in closing the loop on that, ⁓ back to my side. So We still weren't so the early days of resolution, ⁓ before we kind of really became an agency, we were essentially a search ad network. And so we kept working together in a a pretty similar fashion as you built out the team. and then we got bought by Omnicom, ⁓ OMD ⁓ Sean Finnegan, ⁓ rest in peace. And we actually we did a an epilogue on the Grassham episode, ⁓ remembering him and and ⁓ Brandon and Hillary and and Leslie. We should also ⁓ to for Kurt Hecht ⁓ of course ⁓ to to Lots of love there. ⁓ but but ⁓ when we got bought by Omnicom, all of a sudden now, ⁓ we're competitive. We probably can't work together anymore. And so I remember having to like hand off the you know, the final ⁓ campaigns, you know, to to you and your team. And it was like ⁓ you know, literally like a end of an era, sad moment. It's like, ⁓ gosh, like can we still be friends? We we maybe can't work together, but can we still be friends? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Nan, it was a f it was fun time. It was a really, really amazing time. And I was like, I hadn't thought about that place. We don't have them here. I hadn't thought about that place in I don't know how long. But I remember they used to do this thing, like there would always be a line there for lunch, right? Yeah. A good line. And ⁓ they would do this thing where they would put this little bread tray. Their I mean, their bread was the secret in that whole business, in my opinion. Yeah. but they would put this little bread tray out like right when you walked in the door to kind of, you know, saciate satiate you while you waited in line. And that just became like a Pavlovian thing, right? Like lunchtime, I'd be like, Mm, that bread, man. I I must have eaten there like two or three times a week. Same. And ⁓ there were times like I was able to actually ⁓ order a smaller sandwich because I would get so full off the free bread by the time I got to the front. It was a great way to save some money. I mean we were, you know, we weren't making much money back in those days. So we were bootstrapping for sure. And even on my side, ⁓ as a sales rep with budget, you I I didn't I didn't have too much. ⁓ I I would always punk people like Lee and and Keith Kaplan and and Bill Wise and say, hey, I need more to entertain. You know, I'm competing with people doing gene parties and you know all this stuff. And all I can do is buy them a coffee and and and give them a wrap. ⁓ but then ⁓ cozy ⁓ started introducing s'mores. ⁓ I don't know if you remember this. They and you could order a s'mores thing, like a make own s'mores that they would bring out this whole platter. ⁓ and so that that was really when things got lux ⁓ at Cozy. The Cozy s'mores. All right. So so let's ⁓ kind of like put put a bow on it from from the IP ⁓ perspective. Like what do you think made that place ⁓ so special and and what do you think its legacy is today? Yeah. Man, I think ⁓ it's a it's a great question. I in in my opinion, like it it was a ca it was sort of a coming together of a lot of things. ⁓ you know, one was we had a great leader. I mean Rashad was ⁓ Rashad was tremendous, just like, you know, he's still obviously so he's such a smart guy. I don't know if you keep in touch with him or listen to him, but ⁓ yeah. And he actually ⁓ he's been watching the episode, so he'll hopefully hear this. He he did say he'll come on, but I want to save him for the very end what after we've talked to everybody else, and then he'll get the last word. Well, so anyway, I mean ⁓ needless to say, like none of it happens without him, and it and it doesn't happen as well with someone in place of him, right? I mean, he was he was great about ⁓ just creating space for us, you know, and keeping You know, ⁓ you got big agencies, right? Like any company, right? The politics and stuff. Like he was great at just protecting us from I think a lot of that, you know, and letting us giving us freedom and flexibility to go build stuff and do things on behalf of brands. So that's first. I think we also, you know, we also had an awesome just ⁓ leadership team. I mean, you know, I think about Harris and Marshall and Chandra and, you know, some of the early like directors and, you know, vice presidents and that kind of stuff. And we just had a great group of people. ⁓ and I'm still obviously I'm very st stay in touch with with Harris and Marshall, ⁓ and a and a handful of other folks pretty frequently. ⁓ I also Are you part of the ⁓ the fantasy football league? Are you in that group? I am We'll have to maybe ⁓ we'll we'll have to get a story ⁓ or two out of there before we let you go on this episode. Yeah, ⁓ all right. Well it depends on how how this is distributed. But anyway, it's a great group. ⁓ it's you know, it's it's actually a combination. ⁓ it's all almost all exclusively, you know, IP days people. ⁓ and it's a combination of people that were in IP and people that, you know, like partners, our refs and whatnot. ⁓ but I but I think the other piece that made it uniquely special was ⁓ just the time in this industry, you know, ⁓ which I think you probably hear that from I'm sure everybody probably answers that way, but it's so true. ⁓ you know, there weren't a lot of there weren't as like a ton of standards when we started, right? In terms of like what you can and can't do, where ads fit and don't fit on a page. And, you know, I mean, obviously there was some of that, but it there was still kind of the wild, wild west, right? And if you had enough money, like platforms would do just about anything. You know, ⁓ I'm I'm trying I'm trying to remember the name, but like, you know, one year we bought like ⁓ I think for Miller. It was from ⁓ Miller Brewing's another account that ⁓ that I spent a lot of time on. Yeah. And by the way, most popular answer when I ask people in the apartment crawl round what account other than your own would you have liked to work on? Everybody says Miller. It was it was fun. It was really fun. obviously. ⁓ but you know, one I I can't remember the name of the platform, but basically we bought like their entire homepage. And it wasn't like ads around content. It was the the page and ⁓ you had to actually like click at anyway. It was stuff like this it yeah, that actually might have been with me. We wrecked Star Wars.com and we let you do a takeover for Nintendo. I actually think that that could have been one of the executions. ⁓ and I remember doing it because ⁓ Star Wars ⁓ famously eschewed like the IAB formats. They didn't want to just run four sixty eight by sixty banners and stuff. They wanted to do the custom integrations. ⁓ and to your point, we were all just sort of figuring it out. So yeah, you came to us and said, hey, just come up with like a big idea. We said, hey, you can have this homepage as a at the canvas. What would you like to do? ⁓ so the whole thing. So yeah. ⁓ you know, we had another we had another a deal on Nintendo where we had a platform. We were launching the Nintendo DS and they literally just like bolded every letter D and every letter S on their entire website, like all the content, which is like, I mean, you know, little stuff that's just, you know, buzz building, whatever. But I mean, anyway, th there's so there was that just some of those kinds of things that was you know, as as a young professional, it's just fun to be able to do that and to be able to create. ⁓ and, you know, obviously ⁓ ultimately to to drive business for brands, but but it was it was just it was a it was a great environment. Yeah, well and let me connect the through line all the way through to where you are now because 'cause at least from my perspective, I see you you brought those ethos ⁓ with you. ⁓ and certainly, you know, shout out to George Popstafanov, Sam Bloom, like at PMG now. Like we're it we're in that mode with AI, right? We're building, we're experimenting, the rules aren't there yet. ⁓ I don't I don't know if you can talk about it, but but I heard, you know, re recently you all had like a sort of like an off site where all the execs had to get on with, you know, and and d do some vibe coding type stuff. Like Would you say it's that same kind of like approach now where there's a little bit of freedom flexibility and and you're building tests and learning? Yeah. I mean, without a doubt. you know, and PMG ⁓ is is it's really fascinating. So, you know, I don't know how much you know about it, but I mean, the first couple of hires, I think we're sixteen or seventeen years old now, ⁓ the first two hires were engineers, right? ⁓ and so, you know, I think I think George ⁓ has had a you know, a vision on this thing like for years on in terms of where it's going. and I mean ⁓ it's not only like you know, and I I don't know other agencies how they're thinking about it, right? But it's not as if in in PMG, it's not as if tech and data science and all that stuff sits in a department. ⁓ it's really an expectation of everybody, right? I mean, we have ⁓ we're all tasked with creating and building and you know pushing the boundaries at every level, right? ⁓ and so it's a it's a really unique, it's a really unique company. And I think it's it's really exciting, right? I mean, you know, obviously I would say, you know, media, creative, analytics are the things that brands I think think of us for and come to us for. ⁓ but increasingly like We're solving all kinds of like business challenges, right? I mean, ⁓ you guys helped us with this. Like, can you help us think about this? And I obviously I've I probably can't go into that into any level of detail, but ⁓ it's an exciting time, right? And I think I think obviously our our business, this industry changing very, very rapidly. you know, I think it's exciting. Right on. Well, let's ⁓ raise a glass and toast to that as we begin our apartment crawl round. Do you have a solo cup or Well ⁓ wait hang on, let me give it this other one. This one. How about this one? This is like from H. ⁓ that'll be to local. ⁓ is that say Howdy? Okay. Howdy. I like it. ⁓ well cheers. And of course, yeah, this is a nod to the ⁓ apartment crawl from back in the day where we would go around from place to place and and leave each ⁓ apartment off worse ⁓ than when we got there. ⁓ but it's it's our lightning round. So so just quick answers here. ⁓ the first one will become ⁓ the name of the episode. ⁓ what was your AOL instant messenger handle? Governalius. Governal with the US. Yes. Got it. All right. ⁓ who was your first boss at IP? Tim Harris. Favorite client? ⁓ geez. I'm gonna say Nintendo. ⁓ if you could have worked on any account other than the ones you did, what would you have liked to have done? You know, I only I only touched Kellogg for a minute and I always thought that was a business that I wanted to spend more time on. Right on. ⁓ present company excluded, who's your favorite vendor? So ⁓ good question. I mean I it's I'm only supposed to give you one answer. You can give more. It's all good. Shout it out. I mean, look, like we have so many great people in that, you know, Chicago, some of which I'm still very close with, Craig Schumacher, Jim Murphy, you know. All right. So closing the ⁓ apartment crawl round pr on the personal note, ⁓ tell us about family, kids, pets. Yeah. I I have all of ⁓ let's see. So I've got I've got just celebrated our twentieth wedding anniversary. I've got a ⁓ Gal I met in high school, ⁓ by the way. I've got two daughters, eighteen and fifteen. I'm about to send my first off to college, which is a little you know, a little nerve wracking but ⁓ exciting. She's ready to I'm right there with you. I'm right there with you about the way my ⁓ yeah she'll start at Mizzou in the fall. Yeah. ⁓ amazing. Yeah, where are you at? Greer's going to TCU, so not too far. Yeah. Hor ⁓ Hornfrogs, is that right? Hornfrogs. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And then I watch, I get I maybe in the same like my my, you know, TikTok has been like warped ⁓ by w my kids account like I follow my kids' accounts, so they figure I want all content like that. So I see all the like, you know, ⁓ commitment videos, you know. I'm Julie, and I'm going to TCU, go on, and you know and I'm Sarah and I'm going to Texas. How come? Yes, that has made its way into my social feeds as well. It's a thing, man. Yeah. It's so so difficult. I love it. It's great. The kids these days. The kids are all right. The kids are all right. Yeah. And then I've got ⁓ my younger daughter's gonna be a sophomore. She's at art school here in Dallas. And then ⁓ I've got two dogs. Smooch and Wheezy. Awesome. Full house. Yeah. Yes, sir. It is. You ⁓ would not want to be hosting any ⁓ apartment crawls at at this stage. We'd probably break that light behind you, that disco ⁓ disco ball would become crashing down and Yeah, no, I'm I think I'm I'm well out of that stage. But man, that we had we had a lot of fun with that. ⁓ I don't know if you remember like some of the parties at Harris's with like the he used to have like a clandestine casino day at his place that was like just so ghetto, but it was it was the best time. Like he'd had this like crappy, like homemade crap stable that had like these crazy bets. ⁓ we had a lot of fun, man. We did we did it right, ⁓ for sure. No doubt. Yeah. ⁓ so so ⁓ after ⁓ resolution, my next move was ⁓ back then they were called Kenshew, now they're called Sky. And that's actually when I first met George ⁓ when when with PMG ⁓ was ⁓ doing a lot of Kenshew. And ⁓ we had a guy named Ryan Booth ⁓ in our Chicago office who had an apartment in the city and he had a ⁓ hallway ⁓ storage locker, kind of storage unit. Each each apartment got a little storage unit in the hallway. And he turned his into a speakeasy where literally like you walk in and all you see is a bookshelf, but you know which like part of the shelf t to move and you walk in and he had a whole like sort of ⁓ salon, poker table, bar setup, ⁓ just in the middle of this like ⁓ apartment building in in the middle of the city. It was ⁓ super cool the the stuff ⁓ that that ⁓ we did then. ⁓ all right, so that's a great place ⁓ to put a pin in it. We're gonna do the frap wrap round, which of course is how we close every episode, just like if we were back at Cozy. ⁓ I'd give everybody a little freestyle about whatever was going on, what they were working on, what they were wearing. So your task now is to give me a few keywords ⁓ to work with here. So I don't know if you have anything to write with or if you have any props you want to just hold up. All right. I got some props. All right. And I also came prepared. ⁓ in the theme. ⁓ the two or three is good. And and as Harry Mack always says, ⁓ no fruits or colors because I don't want to end up with an orange because nothing rhymes with orange. ⁓ I brought so so at in the last episode with ⁓ with Aaron Petty, the first thing she held up was a little ⁓ placard that said what would Beyonce do? And I talked about how I saw her ⁓ I saw Beyonce in Paris. ⁓ and so I have my cowboy Carter hat, which I feel like's appropriate now ⁓ for our session here. I'll I'll ⁓ go into what would Beyonce do mode for this. I don't know if you got you got anything to match me. I I'm I'm sure you got it. You gotta have a hat around somewhere, right? I do. I do. Is that is that ⁓ too obvious? No, let's do it, man. Let's embrace our, you know. There it is. Yes. All right. This is gonna be the clip. ⁓ we're gonna do numbers on the socials here. ⁓ all right, yeah. Just you know, you can you can hold up whatever, you can shout out a word. ⁓ we're gonna get it going. Let me just think here. Hang on, give me one set. All right, you get prepared. I'm gonna take a little bit of water. Okay. Another sip of my coffee here. It's early in the morning, so the solo cup was empty, but I do have my mug. For those who are listening and can't see the video, it's not a dad bot, it's a father figure. ⁓ on the mug, words to live by. All right. I got a I got two things here. Maybe three. ⁓ the last one's gonna be a total. You may not even under know what it is, but we'll see how we're gonna we're gonna put you to your yeah, we're gonna put you to work. That's the beauty of it, ⁓ without a net. ⁓ all right. ⁓ so here we go, here we go. I'll slip into my flow. I'm here with my boy Gov and I got big love. Throw something up and put it in the frame. It better not be lame. It's a hat, it says Cecilia, and you know, ⁓ baby, I can feel ya. Just like Beyonce, we go crazy with my lee. It's a party in the USA. Everything's bigger in Texas, and that's what I say. Hold up another, better look my way. It's the Callaway. It's a little golf ball. And what's up all of y'all and all of y'all? I get my Texas drawl my little bit of slang, and you know I ain't lame, and you know I ain't the same. You ain't heard it before. Give me a little more, put it around the neck. And what you gonna do when you bet on me? AG in the place to be, ain't it cool? It's a fan and I rule this world like jaz if I did, I rule the world. I free all my sons. I love ⁓ love ⁓ baby. A little nasty Nas to close it out. Anything else you got for me? Cause I'm all about out of the rhyme. I mean, I did have no, but that was amazing. We'll stop there. Alright, cool. What was the last crowd? Maybe it'll lead to a story for us. You have not lost a step, my man. Looks I ⁓ I appreciate it. It's all about ⁓ having good good material and good people to work with. So thanks for coming on the show. ⁓ appreciate you, Steve, and cheers. ⁓ we'll do it again soon and and look forward to the next episode of Frap Rap. Thank you, Mayor. Great to see you. You're listening to the Media Ocean Podcast Network. For more of our shows, visit www.mediaocean.com/slash podcasts.