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Retail Stores: Do Online Brands Really Need Bricks and Mortar? · The Resilient Retail Game Plan - retail insights, retail trends and best practices

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It's so easy to shop online, and we offer good service, and we dispatch
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same day, and you can get it- Yeah … in two days, so why would
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somebody spend their time, precious time, to come and see us in stores?
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That's the question that e-commerce brands have to grapple with.
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What purpose does a bricks-and-mortar store play in their business?
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Welcome to The Resilient Retail Game Plan.
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I'm Catherine Erdly, and this podcast is here to share retail industry
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trends, insights, and best practices for you, the retailer who's serious
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about building something that lasts.
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Last week, I asked why bricks-and-mortar shops need a website.
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This week, I'm turning the question around.
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Why do web-based brands need bricks-and-mortar shops?
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I've put these two episodes side by side on purpose, and it's not because
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I want us to decide which one wins.
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It's more because I'd like us to stop thinking about online versus
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offline altogether, because that's not what your customer thinks.
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She'll find you on Instagram, pop in on a Saturday, order another color
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on her phone that evening, and bring something back the following week.
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To her, that is one brand.
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And the research backs this up.
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Shopify have found that 41% of UK shoppers plan to split their shopping
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evenly between online and in-store.
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And Emilie Benoit Vernet, who contributed commentary for this episode, is Shopify's
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director of revenue for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa, and she puts
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it very simply, "Customers aren't thinking in terms of channels, so brands
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shouldn't either." So if you mainly sell online, the question today is what job
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a physical presence could do for you.
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And if you already have a shop, stay with me, because the way online
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brands think about their shops might change how you think about yours.
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today's episode was created alongside an article I wrote for forbes.com
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on why online brands need stores.
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To help me answer this question, I spoke to or emailed with several people who
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are deeply involved in this very subject.
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The main voice you'll hear today is Desislava Bell, or Desi, who co-founded
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the womenswear brand Saint and Sophia with her husband, Malcolm, in January 2020.
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For almost five years, they were online only, selling internationally from
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day one, and they now have more than 800,000 customers around the world.
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Then, in November 2024, they opened their first shop on
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Monmouth Street in Covent Garden.
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Desi has a banking background, and in their partnership, she's the one
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who loves spreadsheets, which is exactly why I wanted to know how she
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judges whether the shop is working.
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Alongside her, I'll share written comments from Sally Hughes Daniels,
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CEO of the activewear brand TALA, which opened its first shop on Carnaby Street
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last year, and from Emily at Shopify.
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By the end of this episode, you'll know the jobs a shop can do for an online
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brand beyond the takings and how to choose the one you want yours to do.
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You'll hear what changed how Desi sees physical retail.
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And if you already run a shop, you'll hear what happens when someone
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walks through Saint and Sophia's door, which you could copy tomorrow.
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In all my years in retail, online versus offline has never been as
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simple as people make it sound.
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Desi's first shop shows you why.
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Selling online gives you an extraordinary amount of data.
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You can see what your customer buys, how often she buys, what she clicks
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on, and what she leaves in her basket.
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You can also see what she sends back.
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But there are things that you can only learn when she's standing in front of you.
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Physical retail- Yeah … was really important for us, I think, initially
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just, I mean, to meet the customer, right?
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Yes.
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Yes.
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See who she is.
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Um, but also have a space where we can, you know, have events- Mm … build a
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community, learn, you know, find out what she likes, and I think that's
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what we really have strived to achieve with our, you know, first boutique
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so far, but definitely not our last.
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Think about what you can see in a shop that no dashboard will show you.
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Who comes in together, what does she pick up and put straight back
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down, what does she try on and doesn't buy, the question she asks
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just before she gets her wallet out.
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All of that feeds back into the rest of the business, the website,
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the buying, the marketing.
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Emily at Shopify describes a shop as the place where online
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discovery meets in-person service.
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So a shop isn't only a sales channel, it's a research channel, too.
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We were quite nervous about opening a physical store because we knew
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how to trade online, obviously with your experience you'll be very well
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aware this, it's so different trading in a physical retail space- Yeah
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compared to online, in the sense that, you know, your product selection
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needs to be optimized for both.
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Mm-hmm.
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Uh, you know, it's … I think the, the biggest thing for us was
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figuring out what kind of experience we wanted to create for customers.
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Right.
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Mm-hmm.
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Because, um, you know, it's so easy to shop online, and we offer
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good service, and we dispatch same day, and you can get it in- Yeah
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two days, so why would somebody spend their time, precious time,
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to come and see us in-store?
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So it was very much about, creating a, you know, a beautiful environment, you
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know- Mm-hmm … an environment where we can translate our values of, you
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know, quality, creativity, you know, inclusivity, i- into a physical store.
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And so we always wanted to have a place where we offer services.
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Right.
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It wasn't just, you know, a place to come and shop, but it's a place where we
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can really serve our customer and offer- Mm-hmm … the best possible experience.
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we always wanted to have a boutique environment, so it's,
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you know, a small boutique.
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Um, our store is in Monmouth Street in Covent Garden.
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and you can come in, you can have a, you know, personal s- shopping
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appointment, personal styling appointment.
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You can get your color analysis done.
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You know, somebody will help you choose the best things for you.
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That's Dessy answering her own question.
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The website always wins on convenience, so the shop has to win on something else.
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Some of that is simply physical.
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You can feel the fabric, see the real color, try it on.
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Sally at Tala says their shops are about inviting our customers to step into the
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world of Tala, and gives them the chance to feel the quality of our products.
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I really like the idea of stepping into a brand's world.
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If you have a shop, ask yourself what somebody understands about
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your brand the moment they walk in.
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I love the term brand temples.
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That's what a lot of big online businesses use their main flagships for.
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So for places like the Skim store on Regent Street, they are an example of
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a brand temple where effectively what you're doing is taking those brand
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guidelines or those brand principles and translating them into a physical space.
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There's a stock lesson in here too.
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Dessi told me people in the shop tend to buy the more considered
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pieces, leather, handbags, gifts, often something they've already
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looked at online and want to try on.
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So if you do open a shop and you have an online store, don't just copy your
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website's bestsellers onto the shelves.
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Definitely see this as a test and learn situation where you're
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going to want to try and feel and understand the different ways of
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buying between online and in-store.
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Sometimes we see it as being completely different, like Dessi.
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Sometimes we see with c- with clients that it's very, very similar.
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But don't make that assumption straight off the bat.
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You want to test things and try them out and learn from them But there's a trap in
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all this talk of bringing a brand to life.
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It can quickly turn into thinking you need an expensive, beautifully
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designed, Instagrammable shop.
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So I asked Dessy how they made sure the shop really felt like Saint Anastasia.
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I think a lot of the brand values for us, I mean, the, obviously the space
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needs to translate the, the brand values.
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So from a design point of view, we, felt like the space delivered on that.
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But the main thing in terms of translating the brand values is the service
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that we're able to offer customers.
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And so for us, that was, always really important, having a team that's, you
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know, enjoys serving customers, who enjoys, you know, helping people,
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who's really nice and polite and greets every customer that comes in.
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So I think a lot of, for us, service actually is probably the most
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important thing when thinking about…
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It's, it's the physical… As long as the physical environment is, of course,
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beautiful and, and we, uh, we, we, at least we think so, but it, so much
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of it is actually about the service.
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I completely agree.
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The number of times that people talk about customer experience and don't
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realize that the biggest piece of the customer experience is that interaction
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with the, with the sales associate.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Absolutely.
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and yeah, we, you know, every customer comes in, we'll greet them, we'll
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ask them have they heard about us.
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You know, there's, we let them browse.
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Uh, you know, we have chairs where family members can sit and relax.
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Uh, you know, we offer people a drink.
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That question at the door, "Have you heard of us?",
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is the research channel again, doing its job in five words.
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And unlike the fit-out, none of that needs a flagship budget.
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So if you've got a shop, think about what happens in the first minute
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somebody walks in, and whether you ever find out how they heard about you.
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Those chairs are there for a reason too I think what we've learned about
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our customer, she's, she's really fun.
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Uh, she- we get a lot of customers shopping with friends,
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and that's always really fun.
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So it's, um… And for me, shopping has always been, the best of
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shopping is very much sort of a social experience, isn't it?
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You, you can go- Right … with a friend, or you can go with your mom,
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or you can go with your sister or, uh, you know, with a family member, with
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your husband, and I, I think it's, it, that is the, the joy of discovering
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something new and the joy of, you know, finding something that you really love.
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and that's sort of what we wanted to, to create in the store.
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We serve champagne on the weekend when people come and shop.
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it's a fun place, and we always wanted to make it a nice environment
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where the customer can come and feel really well, uh, looked after.
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W- when you shop online, you're, it's pretty much a solo endeavor, right?
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You don't generally go over to a friend's house to sit and watch them scroll online.
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But then the store is that social aspect in that it's really fascinating
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talking to people about what shopping means to them, and often it's
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memories of going with family members- Yeah … and loved ones and friends
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and, and that leisure activity.
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TALA is a great example of a brand that has taken the social side
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of shopping further than most.
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Sally says their shops have become hubs where we can bring those who
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knew each other from the comments section into a room together
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through events and run clubs.
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From the comments section into a room.
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The shop isn't replacing their online community, it's
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giving it somewhere to meet.
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And if you already have a shop, there's a question in there for you.
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Are you thinking enough about what can happen in your shop, not
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just what can be bought there?
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Of course, none of that matters if the shop can't pay its way.
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So does it?
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Rent, rates, staff, fit out, stock.
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A shop is expensive and can't carry on forever if it
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doesn't make commercial sense.
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So I asked Dessy, spreadsheet lover, whether their shop has to stand
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on its own as a sales channel, or whether it's doing a bigger job
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finding new customers, building brand awareness, and building community.
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I think with our first store, firstly, it was, a learning, so we approached
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it very much as a learning exercise.
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Learning how to, you know, serve customers, learning how to retail,
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learning how to, create an, uh, an, an engaging experience, events work.
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And I think we've definitely seen a broader halo effect on the,
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on our UK business, just I think having a retail store creates,
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as you say, that brand awareness.
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You know, Monmouth Street is a fairly well-trafficked street.
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It's a very pretty street.
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there's a lot of, I think, halo from association of being in the right
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place and, and, and so we've looked at it more holistically rather than, you
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know … And, and, you know, retail stores also take time to get going,
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so, you know, until you establish a customer base, until people, you know,
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remember to come and see you, and I think it's, it's, definitely takes a
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little bit longer than, uh, you know, getting going with, uh, online retail.
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Although I suppose you have the, the joyous upside of lower,
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much lower returns, right?
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Well, yeah.
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I mean, significantly lower, yeah.
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That's, uh … And I, and I have to say, that's definitely changed
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my perspective on physical retail.
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So- … I just think it's just … Yeah, it's, it's … But I mean, it's
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no sh- it's no surprise, right?
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People do actually come and try things on, and they buy what actually fits,
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and so as a result, uh, as a result, you don't have that uncertainty.
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If you sell online, and especially if you sell clothing, you'll know
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exactly what returns do to your margin.
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In my book, Tame Your Tiger, I talk about making enough money
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every time you make a sale.
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A sale that comes back two weeks later hasn't made you any money at all.
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It's usually cost you some.
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So a sale that stays sold is worth more than one that might come back.
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Then there's who the shop brings in.
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Tala had a really interesting statistic.
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Over half of their customers in store each week are new.
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And Sally says they're seeing those customers go on to become
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returning customers at a high rate.
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Dessy has seen her own version of this I've been surprised how
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many people actually make it into a, uh, part of like a day trip.
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So we tend to get a lot of friends coming to shop together
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maybe on a Friday afternoon.
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They're going to the theater, and you know, one, one of them
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has, you know, heard of Saint and Sophia, shopped with us, and she'll
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bring, you know, her friends.
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That's word of mouth in action.
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So before you open a shop, be really clear at what you want it to do.
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Is it there for sales, for new customers, to bring existing customers
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back more often, for brand awareness, for research, for community?
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Each of these needs are measured differently, and probably
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differently from your website.
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Because if you only judge a shop by what goes through its till, you may not be
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measuring everything it's doing for you.
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And there's one more job a shop can do that's easy to overlook.
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Tala is finding that around 10% of its shop customers are international, which
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is informing our future international strategy, so the shop is doing market
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research for where they might go next.
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Saint and Sophia are running the same loop the other way around.
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We are looking at London, but- Hmm … uh, regionally in the UK is
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another place where we are, you know- Mm-hmm … quite excited to explore.
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So places like, you know, Glasgow, Manchester, Leeds,
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where we have a lot of customers.
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hopefully, you know, bringing the Saint and Sophia experience, to those customers.
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Their online customers are showing them where the next shops could go.
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The shop tells you where to go next, and the website tells
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you where to put the shop.
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That's what I mean when I say this isn't online versus offline.
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So does an online business need a shop?
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No, just as having a shop doesn't mean you need to be everywhere online.
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The better question is, what could a physical presence do for
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my customers and for my business?
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And that doesn't have to mean a lease in Covent Garden.
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Emily at Shopify points out that for some brands it starts
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with a pop-up or an event.
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If you sell online, look at where your orders come from.
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Your customers have already told you which towns love you.
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That's your shortlist for a pop-up, a market, or a weekend in someone
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else's shop, and each one will tell you whether your customers want to
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meet you before you sign a lease.
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Sally at Tala gave me a line I want to leave you with.
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"The real ambition," she said, "is for retail to become a meaningful,
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growing part of this business in its own right, while also something that makes
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every other part of Tala stronger."
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Not online versus offline, not which one is better, how can your shop and
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your website make each other stronger?
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If you're weighing up a step like this, whether it's a pop-up, a
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first shop, or getting more out of the shop you've already got, that's
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exactly the kind of decision our stock doctors can help you map out.
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Find out more and apply at stockdoctor.net.
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Thank you so much for listening.
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Don't forget to like, follow or subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts to be
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And why not come and say hi to me on Instagram at Resilient Retail
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Club and let me know what you took away from today's episode