Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: The OIG Report Detailing The Investigation Into Epstein's NPA (Part 59-62) (7/5/26)
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
- 0:03In this episode, we're picking up where we left off
- 0:06with the OIG report into Jeffrey Epstein's NPA. Epstein was
- 0:11required by the NPA to plead the only two state charges,
- 0:15and even assuming that each charge was premised on a
- 0:18crime against a different victim and the solicitation charge involved
- 0:22three separate victims, there were thus only at most four
- 0:26victims of the charge state offenses. Without at least inquiring
- 0:29into the state's intentions, Acosta had no way of determining
- 0:33whether the state intended to notify more than those few victims. Moreover,
- 0:38the federal investigation had resulted in the identification of several
- 0:41victims who had not been identified by the PbD during
- 0:45its investigation into Epstein's conduct. Absent information from the USAO,
- 0:50the state would not have been in a position to
- 0:53notify those additional victims of the state plea proceeding, even
- 0:56if the state attorney had decided to include other victims
- 0:59I identified during the state investigation. Furthermore, at the time
- 1:04he made the decision, Acosta had already been advised by
- 1:07Villa Fauna that bellehovlk in November of two thousand and seven,
- 1:11had requested that the USAO notify victims, presumably those identified
- 1:15during the federal investigation about the state plea hearing. Acosta
- 1:20told OPR that it had been his understanding at the
- 1:23time of Epstein's plea that the victims would be made
- 1:26aware of the preceding and would have an opportunity to speak.
- 1:29Acosta also told OPR that he expected the state would
- 1:33have notified the victims that that was an all encompassing plea,
- 1:37that the state court sentence would also mean that the
- 1:39federal government was not preceding. There is no evidence, however,
- 1:43that he verified this understanding with Slowman or Villa Fauna,
- 1:47let alone the state attorney. OPR found no indication that
- 1:50Acosta ever communicated or directed Slowman or Villa Fauna to
- 1:54communicate his decision to the state attorney or to provide
- 1:58the State Attorney's office with a complete victims identified during
- 2:02the federal investigation. OPR located a draft letter to the
- 2:05State Attorney's office that Villa Fauna prepared and forwarded to
- 2:09Acosta in December of two thousand and seven, which did
- 2:12provide such information, but OPR found no evidence that the
- 2:15letter was ever sent, and it was not among materials
- 2:18publicly released from the State Attorney's office. OPR also found
- 2:22evidence that both Sloman and Villafana interacted with the State
- 2:26Attorney's Office in the months leading up to the June thirtieth,
- 2:29two thousand and eight plea hearing, but there's no indication
- 2:32that they discussed victim notification issues with that office, and
- 2:36Villa fauna last minute request to PbD chief writer to
- 2:39notify victims indicates that the USAO had not coordinated with
- 2:43the State Attorney's office. Bellohovlk told OPR that no one
- 2:47from the USAO provided her with a list of victims
- 2:50or coordinated any notification of victims to appear at the hearing.
- 2:55Krisher and Bellohovlk were thus evidently unaware that Acosta had
- 2:58decided to leave it to them to decide whether to
- 3:01notify victims about the state proceeding in the absence of
- 3:04some discussion of which or how many victims the state
- 3:08intended to notify, what the state intended to tell them
- 3:11about Epstein's plea, and whether the state intended to let
- 3:14victims speak at the plea hearing. A Costa had no
- 3:18way to ensure that his assumption about victim notification was accurate.
- 3:22In other words, Acosta failed to plan for how all
- 3:25of the identified victims of Epstein's crimes, both federal and state,
- 3:29would be aware of what was happening in the state
- 3:31court and have an opportunity to speak up at the
- 3:34state court hearing. OPR did find evidence that a Costa
- 3:38acted for the purpose of excluding victims from the plea hearing,
- 3:41and a cost of assumption that the state would handle
- 3:44victim notification appropriately was not unsupported. State prosecutors are subject
- 3:49to victim notification requirements under the Florida Constitution, and the
- 3:53state prosecution offices have victim witness personnel, resources and processes
- 3:58to help accomplish notification. However, Acosta was aware, through the
- 4:02prosecution memoranda, the draft indictment, and email communications from Villa
- 4:07Fauna that usao's investigation had expanded beyond those victims identified
- 4:12in the original PbD investigation, because the state indictment and
- 4:17information appeared to pertain to far fewer than the total
- 4:20victims identified in either the state or the federal investigation,
- 4:24and no one at the USAO was certain which victims
- 4:26were covered by the state charges. It should have been
- 4:29apparent to Acosta that without advanced planning between the USAO
- 4:33and the State Attorney's Office, there was a substantial risk
- 4:36that most of the victims identified in the federal investigation
- 4:40would not receive notice of the hearing. Notification to the
- 4:43broadcast possible number of identified victims could only have been
- 4:47successful if there was appropriate communication between the USAO and
- 4:51the state prosecutors, communication that had previously been lacking regarding
- 4:56other significant issues relating to Epstein. Afauna and Sloman hastily
- 5:02arranged effort to enlist in the notification process. PbD chief writer,
- 5:07who likely played little role in complying with the state's
- 5:10victim notification obligations in a typical case, was not adequate
- 5:14substitute for careful planning and coordination with the State Attorney's office.
- 5:19Even if the State Attorney's office had notified all of
- 5:21the identified victims of the upcoming plea hearing, there was
- 5:24no guarantee that such notification would have included information that
- 5:28the state plea was resolving not just the state's investigation
- 5:31of Epstein, but the federal investigation as well. The State
- 5:34Attorney was not obligated by state statutes to inform the
- 5:38victims of the status of the federal investigation, and there
- 5:41was little reason to assume Krisher or one of his
- 5:44staff would voluntarily do so, thereby putting the State Attorney's
- 5:47office in the position of fielding victim questions and concerns
- 5:51about the outcome. Furthermore, as both the USAO and Defense
- 5:56had differing views as to who could lawfully participate in
- 5:59the state plea hearing, there is no indication that Acosta, Sloman,
- 6:02or Villa Fauna took steps to confirm that if victims appeared,
- 6:06they could actually participate in the state court proceeding when
- 6:09they were not victims of the charge crimes. Through council,
- 6:12Acosta asserted to OPR that because Villa Fauna and Sloman
- 6:16both told OPR that they believe that state officials would
- 6:19notify the victims, OPR identified no reason why Secretary Acosta
- 6:24should have distrusted his team on these points. Acosta's council
- 6:29further argued that Acosta should have been able to rely
- 6:32on his staff to accomplish the victim notification task, and
- 6:35thus had no responsibility to personally confirm that chief writer
- 6:39would notify the victims of the hearing. Acosta is correct that,
- 6:43under usual circumstances, USAO management played no role in the
- 6:47victim notification process. However, in this case, the issue of
- 6:50victim notification had been elevated from a role of administrative
- 6:55task to a major area of dispute with the defense.
- 6:58Acosta personally involved in them by resolving the notification dispute
- 7:02with defense counsel in his December nineteenth, two thousand seven letter,
- 7:06Villa Fauna provided Acosta with a draft letter to state
- 7:09officials that would have opened a dialogue concerning the notification
- 7:13of all the victims identified in the federal investigation. OPR
- 7:17found no evidence, however, that Acosta sent the letter or
- 7:20any similar communication to the State Attorney's office, or that
- 7:24he provided Villa Fauna and Sloman with instructions concerning victim
- 7:28notification other than those contained in his December nineteenth, two
- 7:31thousand seven letter. Having inserted himself into the notification process,
- 7:36Acosta had a responsibility to ensure that the expectation that
- 7:40the victims would be notified could be accomplished through the
- 7:43state process. Many victims only learned of Epstein's state court
- 7:47please when they later received a letter from the USAO
- 7:50informing them that those pleas had resolved. The federal investigation,
- 7:54and some victims only learned of the state pleas and
- 7:56sentencing from the news media In the end, although Villa
- 8:00Fauna and Sloman hastily attempted to ensure victim notification through
- 8:04chief Writer, their effort was too little and too late
- 8:07to ensure that victims had the opportunity to attend the
- 8:10plea hearing or were given sufficient information about its significance
- 8:15to their own cases. Although Acosta may have conferred with
- 8:18others about the decision to defer the responsibility for notifying
- 8:22victims to the state attorney, Acosta was responsible for choosing
- 8:26this course of action. OPR concludes that under the unique circumstances,
- 8:31its criticisms are warranted because Acosta personally decided to change
- 8:35the process initiated by his staff, and although he expected
- 8:39that the federal victims would be notified, he did not
- 8:42take the necessary steps to ensure that they would be.
- 8:46Acosta could have authorized disclosure of the plea hearing to
- 8:49victims even if he did not believe the CVRA required it,
- 8:52to ensure that the victims identified in the federal investigation
- 8:56were aware of the state court proceeding because the state
- 8:59please ended the federal investigation into Epstein's conduct. Ensuring that
- 9:03the victims were notified of the state plea hearing would
- 9:06have been consistent with the department's over arching commitment to
- 9:09treat victims with fairness, dignity, and sensitivity. A Costa's failure
- 9:14to prioritize notification and coordinate communication about resolution of the
- 9:19case to ensure Epstein's victims were given an opportunity to
- 9:23attend the plea hearing and to possibly speak about the
- 9:25impact of Epstein's crimes presented a glaring contrast with the
- 9:29Costa's responsiveness to the demands of Epstein's attorneys, which included
- 9:33the unusual courtesy of allowing them to preview and respond
- 9:37to the usao's draft victim notifications. This contrast added to
- 9:41the victim's perception that they had been treated unfairly, of
- 9:44view shared by the public. Nothing in the documentary records
- 9:48suggests that Acosta thought through the issue of determining which
- 9:52victims would be notified by the state, or that he
- 9:54took any steps to ensure that all of the known
- 9:57federal victims received information about the state plea hearing instead,
- 10:01as with his decision to resolve the federal investigation through
- 10:05a state based resolution, Acosta exercised poor judgment when he
- 10:09made critical decisions affecting the federal investigation and the victims,
- 10:13but he also failed to consider the full consequences of
- 10:16those decisions or what was needed to implement them. Acosta's
- 10:20failure to consider these issues before simply leaving the responsibility
- 10:24for making notifications entirely to the State attorney's discretion reflected
- 10:28poorly on the USAO and the department as a whole.
- 10:32It let victims in the dark about an important proceeding
- 10:35that resolved federal investigation, an investigation about which the USAO
- 10:39had communicated with victims for months. It also ultimately created
- 10:45the misimpression that the department intentionally sought to silence the
- 10:48victims by keeping them uninformed about the NPA and resulting
- 10:53state proceeding. Acosta failed to ensure that victims were afforded
- 10:57an opportunity to attend to hearing that was related to
- 11:00their own cases, and thus failed to ensure that victims
- 11:03were treated with forthrightness and dignity. All right, we're going
- 11:07to wrap up right here, and in the next episode
- 11:09we're going to pick up with five. Villa Fauna did
- 11:12not commit professional misconduct and her oral communication to victims.
- 11:16All of the information that goes with this episode can
- 11:18be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
- 11:23welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're
- 11:26going to pick up where we left off with the
- 11:28OIG report into Jeffrey Epstein's NPA. Five Villa Fauna did
- 11:33not commit professional misconduct in her oral communication to victims
- 11:37and victims attorneys, in which she described the case as
- 11:41under investigation, but did not disclose the existence of the
- 11:45NPA to some victims. From September twenty fourth, two thousand
- 11:49and seven, when the NPA was signed, until after Epstein's
- 11:52June thirtieth, two thousand and eight, state court plea, the
- 11:55case agents, acting under Villa Fauna's direction, directly informed only
- 11:59three victims that the government had signed an NPA and
- 12:02that if Epstein complied with its terms, the federal investigation
- 12:06would be closed. During this time period, Villa Fauna and
- 12:09the case agents interacted with several victims and their attorneys,
- 12:13and Villa Fauna contacted victim's attorney brought the Edwards to
- 12:17encourage him to attend the state court plea hearing, but
- 12:20she did not inform victims or Edwards of the NPA
- 12:23or the resolution of the federal investigation as described in
- 12:27Part one of this chapter. After the NPA was signed,
- 12:30the FBI case agent and co case agent began notifying
- 12:34victims about the NPA. After speaking to three victims, however,
- 12:38the FBI case agent became concerned that informing the victims
- 12:42about the NPA and the monetary damages provision would create
- 12:46potential impeachment material for the victims and the agent should
- 12:49Epstein breach the NPA and the case proceed to indictment
- 12:53and trial, As the case agent told OPR, I would
- 12:56have to testify. And I told every one of those
- 12:59girls that they could sue mister Epstein for money. And
- 13:02I was not comfortable with that and I didn't think
- 13:04it was right. The case agent and Villa Fauna consulted
- 13:08with the usao's Professional Responsibility Officer about the matter, and
- 13:12thereafter stopped notifying the victims about the NPA and their
- 13:15ability to pursue monetary damages. According to its terms. Villa
- 13:20Fauna advised Sloman by email of her concerns regarding the
- 13:24potential impeachment evidence, telling them one thing I'm concerned about
- 13:28is that if we file charges now, cross examination will
- 13:32consist of the government told you that if mister Epstein
- 13:35is convicted, you're entitled to a large amount of damage right.
- 13:39Explaining the decision in her later CVR declaration, Villa Fanna
- 13:43said that Epstein's attorneys complained that the victims were receiving
- 13:47an incentive to overstate their involvement with mister Epstein in
- 13:51order to increase their damage's claim. She concluded that informing
- 13:55additional victims would compromise the witness's credibility at trial if
- 14:00Epstein reneged on the agreement. Acosta was aware of these concerns,
- 14:04as he referred to them in an August two thousand
- 14:06and eight email. We also believed that contacting the victims
- 14:09would compromise them as potential witnesses. Epstein argued very forcefully
- 14:14that they were doing this for the money, and we
- 14:16did not want to discuss liability with them, which was
- 14:19a key part of the agreement. The case agents interviewed
- 14:22victims in October and November of two thousand and seven,
- 14:25but did not inform them about the NPA. On January
- 14:29thirty first, two thousand and eight, FBI agents, Villa Fauna
- 14:33and the CEOs trial attorney interviewed three victims, including Courtney Wilde,
- 14:37and they interviewed at least one more victim the next day.
- 14:40Wilde and two others had been contacted by the FBI
- 14:44in the fall of two thousand and seven and may
- 14:46have been informed about the resolution of the federal investigation.
- 14:50Villa Fauna told OPR that during the January thirty first,
- 14:54two thousand and eight interviews, she did not specifically tell
- 14:57the victims that there was a signed non prosecute agreement
- 15:00that had these terms. She stated that she would not
- 15:03use terminology such as NPA because most people don't understand
- 15:07what that means. Instead, with respect to the three victims, who,
- 15:11according to Villa Fauna, had been informed by the FBI
- 15:14about the resolution, she stated that an agreement had been
- 15:17reached where Epstein was going to be entering a guilty plea,
- 15:20but it doesn't look like he intends to actually perform,
- 15:23and now it looks like this may have to be
- 15:25charged and it may have to go to trial. Villa
- 15:28Fauna recalled telling some victims that Epstein was supposed to
- 15:32enter a plea in state court that would end the investigation,
- 15:35but she did not recall distinguishing between the federal investigation
- 15:39versus the state investigation. Villa Fauna told OPR she explained
- 15:43the case was under investigation, She and the agents were
- 15:46preparing again to file charges and they hope that charges
- 15:50would be brought. An email from Villa Fanna to Sloman
- 15:53and Acosta during this time period reflects that she had
- 15:56such discussions with at least one victim interviewed on this
- 16:00The second girl was very upset about the eighteen month
- 16:03deal that she had read about in the paper. She
- 16:06would rather not get any money and have Epstein spend
- 16:09a significant time in jail. Villa Fauna, however, did not
- 16:13recall telling all of the victims interviewed at this time
- 16:15of the state plea. Rather, she likely only told those
- 16:19who knew about the resolution from the FBI. In her
- 16:22own twenty fifteen CVR case declaration, Wild stated that she
- 16:27was not told about any NPA or any potential resolution
- 16:31of the federal investigation. I was cooperating in if I
- 16:34had been told about an NPA, I would have objected,
- 16:37while further stated in her declaration that, based on what
- 16:41the FBI had been telling me, I thought they were
- 16:43still investigating my case. Neither the CEO's trial attorney nor
- 16:48FBI case agent recalled the specifics of the victim interviews.
- 16:52The FBI reports memorializing each interview primarily addressed the facts
- 16:56elicited from the victim regarding Epstein's abuse, and did not
- 17:00describe any discussion about the status of the case or
- 17:03the victim's view about the prosecution of Epstein. When asked
- 17:07whether she was concerned that failing to tell victims about
- 17:09the NPA when she was interviewing them would mislead victims.
- 17:13As previously noted, Villa Fauna told OPR that she believed
- 17:17she and the agents were conducting an investigation because they
- 17:20continued interviewing witnesses and doing all these things the file
- 17:24charges and prepare for a federal trial. As Villa Fauna stated,
- 17:28so to me, saying to a victim the case is
- 17:30now back under investigation is perfectly accurate. Villa Fauna also
- 17:35was aware that some victims were represented by counsel in
- 17:38connection with civil lawsuits against Epstein, but did not proactively
- 17:42inform the victim's attorneys about the NPA. In a twenty
- 17:46seventeen Avid David filed in the CVRA litigation, victims attorneys,
- 17:51Bradley Edward alleged that during telephone calls with Villa Fauna,
- 17:55he was asked very specific questions about what stage the
- 17:58investigation was in, and Villa Fauna replied that she couldnot
- 18:02answer his questions because the matter was an ongoing, active investigation.
- 18:07Edwards stated that Villa Fauna gave him the impression that
- 18:10the federal investigation was ongoing, very expansive, and continuously growing,
- 18:15both in the number of identified victims and complexity. Edwards
- 18:19also stated a fairer characterization of each call was that
- 18:23I provided information and asked questions, and Villa Fauna listened
- 18:27and expressed that she was unable to say much or
- 18:29answer the questions I was asking. In her written response
- 18:33to OPR, Villa Fauna stated that she listened more than
- 18:36she spoke during her interactions with Edwards, and that due
- 18:39to the uncertainty of the situation and the possibility of
- 18:42a trial, she did not feel comfortable sharing any information
- 18:45about the case. Villa Fauna also told OPR that because
- 18:50of all these concerns and instructions that I had been
- 18:52given by Alex and Jeff not to disclose things further
- 18:56and not to have any involvement in victim notification, she
- 18:59felt prohibited from providing additional information to Edwards. Slowman told
- 19:04OPR that although neither the NPA terms nor the CVRA
- 19:08prevented the USAO from exercising its discretion to notify the victims,
- 19:13it was of concern that this was going to break
- 19:16down and result in US prosecuting Epstein, and that the
- 19:19victims were going to be witnesses and if we provided
- 19:21a victim notification indicating hey, you're going to get one
- 19:25hundred and fifty GS, that's going to be instant impeachment
- 19:28For the defense, a Costa told OPR that because Epstein
- 19:31did not plead guilty in October two thousand and seven,
- 19:35as the USAO expected, it was a very open question
- 19:38whether the case would go to trial, and Acosta thought
- 19:41that where there is no legal requirement, there has to
- 19:44be discretion to judge how much you can tell the
- 19:47victims and when Epstein's attorney's conduct during the time period
- 19:51between the signing of the NPA and Epstein's entry of
- 19:54a state guilty please illustrated the risk that Acosta, Slowman,
- 19:58and Villafauna, all identified as Epstein's council deposed victims related
- 20:03to the state court criminal charges and civil cases against Epstein.
- 20:07Council suggested that the victims were motivated to testify against
- 20:11Epstein by the government's promise of financial gain. For example,
- 20:16during a February twentieth, two thousand and eight, state deposition
- 20:19of a victim, defense Council asked her whether the federal
- 20:22prosecutor or FBI agents told her that she was entitled
- 20:26to receive money from Epstein. In her twenty seventeen declaration
- 20:30in the CVRA litigation, Villa Fauna identified that line of
- 20:34questioning as a motivating factor in the government's decision to
- 20:37stop notifying the victims about the potential for US Code eighteen,
- 20:41section twenty two to fifty five recovery. On June twenty seventh,
- 20:45two thousand and eight, the friday before Epstein's Monday June thirtieth,
- 20:49two thousand and eight, state court guilty plea hearing, Villa
- 20:52Fauna contacted Edwards to inform them about the upcoming hearing.
- 20:56Villa Fauna told OPR she was not given authorization to
- 20:59contact any victim attorney other than Edwards about the scheduled
- 21:02state plea hearing. In his twenty seventeen aff David prepared
- 21:06for the CVR litigation, Edwards stated that Villa Fauna gave
- 21:10the impression that she was caught off guard herself, that
- 21:13Epstein was pleading guilty, or that this event was happening
- 21:17at all. Edwards said in a twenty sixteen court filing
- 21:21that Villa Fauna told him only that Epstein was pleading
- 21:24guilty to state's solicitation of prostitution charges involving other victims,
- 21:29not mister Edward's clients nor any of the federally identified victims.
- 21:33Villa Fauna stated in her twenty seventeen declaration that she
- 21:37never told Attorney Edwards that the state charges involved other victims,
- 21:41and neither the state court charging instrument nor the factual
- 21:45proffer limited the procurement of prostitution charge to a specific victim.
- 21:50Villa Fauna told OPR she strongly encouraged Edwards and his
- 21:54clients to attend the plea hearing, but could not be
- 21:57more explicit because she was not authorized by the other
- 22:00office to disclose the terms of the NPA. In his
- 22:03twenty seventeen affid, David Edwards acknowledged that Villa Fauna did
- 22:08express that this hearing was important, but never told me
- 22:11why she felt that way. Edwards claimed that Villa Fawna's
- 22:14failure to inform him that the guilty please in state
- 22:17court would bring an end to the possibility of a
- 22:19federal prosecution pursuant to the plea agreement resulted in his
- 22:23clients not attending the hearing. Edwards himself was out of
- 22:26town and not able to attend the hearing. In his affid,
- 22:30David Edwards asserted, there was no possible way that I
- 22:33could have believed that this state plea could affect the
- 22:36federal investigation or the rights of my clients in that
- 22:39federal investigation. In while the Eleventh Circuit panel stated that
- 22:43the government seemingly deferred to Epstein's attorneys and their requests
- 22:47not to notify the victims about the NPA, and that
- 22:51in sending the January and May two thousand and eight
- 22:54FBI letters to the government, efforts seemed to have graduated
- 22:57from passive non disclosure to or at least close to
- 23:00active misrepresentation. Although both the appellate Court and the District
- 23:05Court focused on the FBI's letters, for which OPR concludes
- 23:09that neither Villa, Fauna, Sloman nor Acosta was responsible, OPR
- 23:13considered the court's analysis in evaluating weather similar representations Villafana
- 23:18made to the victims whom she interviewed on January thirty
- 23:22first and February first of two thousand and eight and
- 23:25to Edwards were misleading. Therefore, OPR considered whether Villafanna's statements
- 23:30that the matter was under investigation and her failure to
- 23:33inform all of the victims whom she interviewed or Edwards
- 23:36about the NPA violated FRPC four dash four dot one
- 23:40A and four dash eight dot four C or four
- 23:44dash eight dot four D. All right, folks, we're gonna
- 23:47wrap up right there, and in the next episode we're
- 23:49gonna pick up with FRPC four dash four dot one
- 23:53A prohibits an attorney from knowingly making a false statement.
- 23:57All of the information that goes with this episode can
- 23:59be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and
- 24:03welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're going
- 24:05to pick up where we left off with the OIG
- 24:08report into Jeffrey Epstein's NPA. FRPC four dash four dot
- 24:13one A prohibits an attorney from knowingly making a false
- 24:16statement of material fact or law to a third person
- 24:20during the representation of a client. The FRPC defines knowingly
- 24:24as denoting actual knowledge of the fact in question, and
- 24:28states that such knowledge may be inferred from circumstances. The
- 24:32comments to FRPC four Dash four dot one states that
- 24:35misrepresentations can also occur by partially true but misleading statements
- 24:40or emissions that are the equivalent of affirmative false statements.
- 24:44The comment references FRPC four Dash eight dot four for
- 24:48dishonest conduct that does not amount to a false statement.
- 24:52Like FRPC four Dash four dot one A, rule four
- 24:56dash eight dot four C requires evidence that the attorney
- 24:59knew this statement in question was false. Under FRPC four
- 25:03Dash eight dot four C, the intent requirement can be
- 25:07satisfied merely by showing that the conduct was deliberate or knowing,
- 25:11and the motive underlying the lawyer's conduct is not determined. Instead,
- 25:16the issue is whether he or she purposely acted. In Feinberg,
- 25:20the court concluded that the prosecutor violated FRPC four Dash
- 25:24four dot one and four Dash eight dot four c
- 25:27ND by deliberately making untruthful statements to a defense attorney,
- 25:31despite evidence that the prosecutor intended to help the defendant
- 25:35by making the statements. In this case, Villa Fauna was
- 25:38fully aware of the signed NPA when she interviewed the
- 25:42victims on January thirty first and February first, two thousand
- 25:45and eight, and when she spoke to Edwards on the telephone,
- 25:48but she did not inform them specifically of the signed NPA.
- 25:52The question is whether this omission amounted to a knowing
- 25:55false statement or misrepresentation. One difficulty in determining what Ville
- 26:00Lafauna actually said during conversations that participants were asked to
- 26:04recall many years later. With respect to three of the
- 26:07victims whom she interviewed in January and February of two
- 26:10thousand and eight, Villa Fauna contended that she discussed the
- 26:14agreement with them, even if she did not specifically refer
- 26:17to it as an NPA or discuss all of its terms,
- 26:21and as previously noted, there is some contemporaneous evidence supporting
- 26:25her assertion. Bila Fauna's mention of the agreement, even if
- 26:29not described in specific terms, would have been sufficient to
- 26:32apprize those victims of the status of the federal investigation. Nevertheless,
- 26:37Villa Fauna did not recall discussing the NPA specifically or
- 26:40in general terms with other victims interviewed at the time,
- 26:43nor did she do so with Edwards or any other
- 26:46victim's attorney. OPR therefore considered whether the omission of information
- 26:51about the existence of the NPA during these interactions rose
- 26:55to the level of professional misconduct in violation of FRPC
- 26:59four dash flow dot one or four dash eight dot four.
- 27:03OPR evaluated Villa Fauna's conduct in light of the comments
- 27:07to FRPC four Dash four dot one. A lawyer is
- 27:10required to be truthful when dealing with others on a
- 27:13client's behalf, but generally has no affirmative duty to inform
- 27:16an opposing party of relevant facts. A misrepresentation can occur
- 27:20if the lawyer in corporates or affirm statements another person
- 27:24that the lawyer knows is false. Misrepresentations can also occur
- 27:28by partially true but misleading statements or omissions that are
- 27:31the equivalent of affirmative false statements. The victims in their
- 27:35attorneys were certainly not opposing parties to the USAO, but
- 27:39the comment indicates that the rule recognizes that omissions made
- 27:43during discussions with third parties, even of relevant facts, are
- 27:46not always treated as false statements. Here, the evidence does
- 27:50not show that Villa Fauna knowingly made an affirmative false
- 27:53statement to the victims or Edwards, or that her omissions
- 27:56were the equivalent of affirmative false statements about material facts. First,
- 28:01Villa Fauna told OPR that she believed the investigation was ongoing,
- 28:05and her statement to that effect truthful and as discussed
- 28:09earlier in this chapter. The evidence shows that Villa Fauna
- 28:11and the agents did continue to investigate the case until
- 28:15Epstein entered his guilty plea in state court in June
- 28:18of two thousand and eight. Villafanna's email correspondence with her
- 28:21supervisors reflects her strong advocacy during that timeframe to declare
- 28:26Epstein in breach and to charge them. The evidence similarly
- 28:30does not show that Villa Fauna knowingly made affirmative false
- 28:33statements to Edwards when she informed him of the state
- 28:36court plea, although she declined to provide additional information in
- 28:40response to his questions. Second, in reaching its conclusion, OPR
- 28:44consider the full context in which Villa Fauna interacted with
- 28:48the victims and Edwards. Prosecutors routinely make decisions about what
- 28:52information will be disclosed to witnesses, including victims, for a
- 28:55variety of strategic reasons. In many cases, prosecutors must make
- 28:59decisions about providing information to witnesses, and they often cannot
- 29:04fully reveal either the facts or the status of an investigation,
- 29:08even to the victims. The two thousand and five Guidelines
- 29:11advise that in consulting with a victim, prosecutors may be
- 29:15limited to their disclosures. Because victims are not clients, may
- 29:18become adverse to the government and may disclose whatever they
- 29:21have learned from consulting with prosecutors. Such consultations may be
- 29:25limited to gathering information from victims and conveying only nonsensitive
- 29:29data and public information. Villa Fauna's concern about generating potential
- 29:34impeachment evidence by informing victims of their potential to recover
- 29:37monetary damages from Epstein was not unreasonable. Indeed, the case
- 29:42agents initially raised the impeachment issue, and after considering the problem,
- 29:46Villa Fauna agreed with the agent's concerns. Villa Fauna raised
- 29:50those concerns with the USAOs Professional Responsibility Officer in October
- 29:54of two thousand and seven after the agents brought the
- 29:57issue to her attention, and she ultimately raised the issue
- 30:00with Sloman and Acosta as well, neither of whom advised
- 30:03her that those concerns were improper or unsound. OPR also
- 30:08considered that although Villa Fauna had sought to notify the
- 30:11victims in writing of the NPA soon after it was signed,
- 30:14her supervisor, the US Attorney, had decided otherwise. When authorized
- 30:19to inform Edwards of the schedule change of plea hearing,
- 30:22she did so, although she did not inform Edwards that
- 30:25the plea was part of a global resolution that would
- 30:28end the federal investigation. The evidence does not show that
- 30:32Villa Fauna acted for the purpose of deceiving Edwards or
- 30:34preventing him from attending the hearing. Had she sought to
- 30:38exclude him from the state proceedings, she could have elected
- 30:41not to inform Edwards at all, or she could have
- 30:43discouraged them from attending the state proceedings. Rather, as Edwards confirmed,
- 30:48Villa Fauna told him the hearing was important, and Villa
- 30:52Fanna sought to strike a difficult balance of securing Edwards
- 30:55and his client's attendants at the state court plea while
- 30:58obeying her managements to that informing victims of the resolution
- 31:02of the federal investigation should not be done until completion
- 31:06of the state please. Therefore, after carefully considering all of
- 31:10the circumstances, OPR concludes that the evidence does not establish
- 31:14that Villa Fauna violated her obligations under FRPC four H
- 31:19four dot one or four dot four C or D. Nonetheless,
- 31:24as discussed below, Vila Fauna's interactions with victims and victims
- 31:28attorneys without informing them of the NPA and the potential
- 31:31conclusion of the federal investigation contributed to the likelihood that
- 31:36the victims would feel that the government was intentionally concealing
- 31:39information from them, and was part of a series of
- 31:42interactions with victims that led to condemnation of the government's
- 31:45treatment of victims. Six. The government failed to treat victims
- 31:50forthrightly and with sensitivity when it failed to timely provide
- 31:53victims with important information about the resolution of federal investigations.
- 31:59Although OPR does not conclude that any of the subjects
- 32:02committed professional misconduct, either by failing to consult with the
- 32:05victims before the NPA was signed or in interactions afterwards.
- 32:09Opr's findings are not an endorsement of the government's course
- 32:12of action. The government's interactions with victims confused and frustrated
- 32:16many of the victims, particularly the two CVRA petitioners and
- 32:20the two victims who had unsuccessfully attempted to join the
- 32:24CVR litigation. As a result, the victims and the public's
- 32:27perception of the matter is that the prosecutors worked with
- 32:31Epstein's attorneys to disenfranchise and silence the victims. It's unfortunate
- 32:35and appears fundamentally unfair to the victims that Acosta and Sloman,
- 32:39after Menschlin Lori departed, took the unusual step of deciding
- 32:43to vet the USAO victim notification letters with the defense
- 32:47after the NPA was signed, but failed to go beyond
- 32:50the requirements of the CVR or the two thousand and
- 32:53five guidelines to consult with the victims before the NPA
- 32:56was signed. This result is contrary to the department's intent
- 33:00as set forth in the two thousand and five guidelines
- 33:03that Department employees worked to minimize the frustration and confusion
- 33:07of the victims of crime that they endure in its wake.
- 33:10When considering the entirety of the government's interactions with victims,
- 33:13OPR concludes that victims were not treated with the fourth
- 33:17rightness and sensitivity expected by the Department. Wild's criticisms of
- 33:21the government conduct were based on interactions that are similar
- 33:25to and generally representative of the government's interactions with other
- 33:29EPSTEIN victims, and that demonstrate an overall lack of sensitivity
- 33:32by the victims by the government. Wild experienced a series
- 33:36of confusing and inconsistent communications in her interactions with Villa
- 33:40Fauna and the case agents. While received Villa Fauna's letter
- 33:45in June two thousand and seven stating inaccurately that she
- 33:48was a federal victim entitled to CVR rights, She was
- 33:51interviewed by the FBI in August two thousand and seven,
- 33:55but was not told of a potential outcome of a
- 33:57state plea. Shortly after this September twenty fourth, two thousand
- 34:01and seven signing of the NPA, the FBI contacted her
- 34:04to informer of the resolution of the Federal case. Nonetheless,
- 34:09on January tenth, two thousand and eight, the FBI sent
- 34:12her a victims rights letter indicating that the case was
- 34:15under investigation and that some of her CVR rights may
- 34:19not apply until after the defendant was charged. On January
- 34:23thirty first, two thousand and eight, Villa Fauna reinterviewed Wild
- 34:27along with CEOs attorney and FBI agents, and told Wild
- 34:31that the case was under investigation, but did not specifically
- 34:34mention the NPA, although she may have mentioned the possible resolution.
- 34:38In mid June two thousand and eight, when Edwards contacted
- 34:41Villa Fauna on Wild's behalf, Villa Fauna informed them that
- 34:44the case was under investigation, but did not mention the NPA.
- 34:48Just before Epstein's June thirtieth, two thousand and eight, state
- 34:51court plea, Villa Fauna informed Edwards about the state plea,
- 34:54but did not mention the NPA or the fact that
- 34:57the state please would resolve the federal investigation. Edwards then
- 35:01filed the CVR A petition and learned about the NPA
- 35:05signed months earlier, and that the federal investigation of Epstein
- 35:08had concluded with Epstein's state guilty Please. Wild only received
- 35:12access to the NPA when a judge permitted it in
- 35:15August two thousand and eight, pursuing too a protective order.
- 35:18After considering this series of interactions, it's not surprising that
- 35:22Wild came away from that experience feeling confused and believing
- 35:26that she had been misled. All right, we're going to
- 35:28wrap up right here, and then the next episode we're
- 35:30going to pick up with OPR did not find evidence
- 35:33supporting a conclusion that Villa Fauna Acosta, Sloman menchel Or
- 35:37Laurie opted not to consult with victims. All of the
- 35:40information that goes with this episode can be found in
- 35:43the description box. What's up everyone, and welcome back to
- 35:46the Epstein chronicles. In this episode, we're picking up where
- 35:50we left off with the OIG report into Jeffrey Epstein's NPA.
- 35:55OPR recognizes that the Epstein investigation occurred soon after the
- 35:59passage of this In the years since, the department's prosecutors
- 36:03and personnel have become more familiar with its provisions. OPR
- 36:07encourages the department as a whole to take the issues
- 36:10discussed above into account when providing training and direction to
- 36:14its employees regarding victims' rights. To ensure that in the future,
- 36:18Department attorney's actions promote victim inclusion whenever possible. For example,
- 36:23although the division of responsibility between the FBI and the
- 36:27USAO for communicating with victims works efficiently and appropriately in
- 36:32the average case, the USAO failed to consider that in
- 36:35a case involving a pre charge disposition, the victims were
- 36:39receiving in consistent and confusing communications from the separate entities.
- 36:44In certain cases, such as the Epstein case, prosecutors may
- 36:47need to provide more oversight when multiple department components are
- 36:52communicating with victims to avoid providing confusing and contradictory messages conclusion.
- 36:59In November twenty eighteen, the Miami Herald published an extensive
- 37:03investigative report about the state and federal criminal investigations initiated
- 37:08more than twelve years earlier in allegations that Jeffrey Epstein,
- 37:11a wealthy financier with residences in Florida, New York, and
- 37:15other United States and foreign locations, had coerced girls into
- 37:19engaging in sexual activity with them at his Palm Beach,
- 37:22Florida state. The Miami Herald reported that in two thousand
- 37:25and seven, the U S Attorney for the Southern District
- 37:28of Florida, R Alexander Acosta entered into an extraordinary deal
- 37:32with Epstein that permitted Epstein to avoid federal prosecution and
- 37:36a potentially lengthy prison sentence by pleading guilty in state
- 37:39court to two prostitution charges, immunized from prosecution Epstein's co
- 37:45conspirators and concealed from Epstein's victims the terms of the NPA.
- 37:50Following the Miami Herald's report and after receiving a congressional
- 37:54request to investigate, OPR initiated an investigation into the allegations
- 37:59that prosecutors in the USAO and properly resolved the federal
- 38:03investigation into the criminal conduct of Jeffrey Epstein by negotiating
- 38:08and executing the NPA. OPR subsequently included in its investigation
- 38:13allegations stemming from judicial criticism of the government's conduct relating
- 38:18to federal prosecutors and law enforcement agents interactions with Epstein's victims.
- 38:23In July of two thousand and eight, a victim later
- 38:25joined by a second victim, filed in federal court in
- 38:28the Southern District of Florida an emergency petition for enforcement
- 38:32of her rights under the CVRA. In February twenty nineteen,
- 38:36the District Court found that the government violated the CVRA
- 38:40by failing to advise victims about its intention to enter
- 38:44into the NPA. The court also found that letters the
- 38:48government sent to victims after the NPA was signed describing
- 38:51the investigation as ongoing were misleading. During the course of
- 38:55its investigation, OPR obtained and reviewed hundreds of thousands of
- 38:59recis records from the USAO, the FBI, and other Department
- 39:03of Justice components. The records included emails, letters, memoranda, and
- 39:08investigative materials. OPR also collected and reviewed materials relating to
- 39:13the state investigation and prosecution of Epstein, including sealed pleadings,
- 39:19grand jury transcripts, grand jury audio recordings, and examined extensive
- 39:24publicly available information, including depositions, pleadings, orders, and other court records,
- 39:29and reviewed media reports and interviews, articles, podcasts, and books
- 39:33relating to the Epstein case. OPR conducted more than sixty
- 39:37interviews of witnesses, including the FBI case agents, their supervisors,
- 39:42and FBI administrative personnel, current and former USAO staff and attorneys,
- 39:47current and former Department attorneys, and senior managers, and the
- 39:51former State Attorney and Assistant State Attorney in charge of
- 39:55the state investigation of Epstein. OPR also interviewed or received
- 40:00written information from several victims and attorneys representing victims concerning
- 40:05victims contacts with the USAO and federal law enforcement. OPR
- 40:09identified the following five former USAO attorneys as subjects of
- 40:13its investigation based on information indicating that each of them
- 40:17was involved in the decision to resolve the case through
- 40:20the NPA or in the negotiations leading to the agreement.
- 40:24Former us Attorney R. Alexander Acosta and former AUSA Jeffrey H. Slowman,
- 40:30Matthew I. Menchel, Andrew C. Lorie, and Anne Maurice C. Villafauna.
- 40:36Each subject submitted written responses detailing their involvement in the
- 40:40federal investigation of Epstein, the drafting and execution of the NPA,
- 40:45and decisions relating to victim notification and consultation. OPR conducted
- 40:50extensive interviews of all five subjects. The subjects also submitted
- 40:54comments on opr's draft report. OPR evaluated the conduct of
- 40:59each subjet rebject based on his or her individual role
- 41:03in various decisions and events and assess that conduct pursue
- 41:06into opr's analytical framework. OPR found that Acosta made the
- 41:11pivotal decision to resolve the federal investigation of Epstein through
- 41:15a state base plea, and either developed or approved the
- 41:18terms of the initial offer to the defense that set
- 41:21the beginning point for the subsequent negotiations that led to
- 41:25the NPA. Although Acosta did not sign the NPA, he
- 41:29participated in its drafting and approved it with knowledge of
- 41:32its terms. Therefore, OPR considers Acosta to be responsible for
- 41:36the NPA and for the actions of the other subjects
- 41:39who implemented his decision. Based on its extensive investigation, OPR
- 41:45concludes that the subject did not commit professional misconduct with
- 41:48respect to the development, negotiation, and approval of the NPA.
- 41:53Under opr's framework, professional misconduct requires a finding that a
- 41:57subject attorney intentionally or recklessly violated a clear and unambiguous
- 42:02standard governing the conduct at issue. OPR found no clear
- 42:06and unambiguous standard that required Acosta to indict Epstein on
- 42:10federal charges or that prohibited his decision to defer prosecution
- 42:15to the state. Furthermore, none of the individual terms of
- 42:19the NPA violated departmental or other applicable standards. As the
- 42:25u S Attorney, Acosta had the authority under established federal
- 42:28law and department policy to resolve the case as he
- 42:31deemed necessary and appropriate, as long as his decision was
- 42:35not motivated or influenced by improper factors. Acosta's decision to
- 42:39decline to initiate a federal prosecution of Epstein was within
- 42:43the scope of his authority, and OPR did not find
- 42:46evidence that his decision was based on corruption or other
- 42:50impermissible considerations, such as Epstein's wealth status or associations. Evidence
- 42:56shows that Acosta resisted defense efforts to have the matter
- 42:59at time to the state for whatever result state authorities
- 43:02deemed appropriate, and he refused to eliminate the incarceration and
- 43:06sexual offender registration requirements. OPR did not find evidence establishing
- 43:11that Acosta's breakfast meeting with one of Epstein's defense council
- 43:15in October of two thousand and seven led to the NPA,
- 43:18which had been signed weeks earlier, or to any other
- 43:21significant decision that benefited Epstein. The contemporaneous records showed that
- 43:27the USAO managers concerns about legal issues witness credibility and
- 43:31the impact of trial on the victims led them to
- 43:34refer a precharge resolution, and that Acosta's concerns about the
- 43:37proper role of the federal government in prosecuting solicitation crimes
- 43:42resulted in his preference for a state based resolution. Accordingly,
- 43:46OPR does not find that Acosta engaged in a professional
- 43:49misconduct by resolving the federal investigation of Epstein in the
- 43:53way he did, or that the other subjects committed professional
- 43:56misconduct through their implementation of Acosta's decisions. Nevertheless, OPR concludes
- 44:02that a Costa's decision to resolve the federal investigation through
- 44:06the NPA constitutes poor judgment, although this decision was within
- 44:10the scope of Acosta's broad discretion and OPR does find
- 44:14that it resulted from improper factors, the NPA was a
- 44:17flawed mechanism for satisfying the federal interest that caused the
- 44:21government to open its investigation of Epstein. An Acosta's view,
- 44:25the federal government's role and prosecuting Epstein was limited by
- 44:29principles of federalism, under which the independent authority of the
- 44:33state should be recognized, and the federal responsibility in this
- 44:36situation was to serve as a backstop to state authorities
- 44:40by encouraging them to do more. However, a Costa failed
- 44:44to consider the difficulties inherent in a resolution that relied
- 44:48heavily on action by numerous state officials over whom he
- 44:51had no authority. He resolved the federal investigation before significant
- 44:56investigative steps were completed, and he agreed to several unusual,
- 45:00u and problematic terms in the NPA without the consideration
- 45:03required under the circumstances. In some Acosta's application of federalism
- 45:08principles was too expansive, his view of the federal interest
- 45:12in prosecuting Epstein was too narrow, and his understanding of
- 45:15the state system was too imperfect to justify the decision
- 45:19to use the NPA. Furthermore, because a Costa assumed a
- 45:23significant role in reviewing and drafting the NPA, and the
- 45:26other three subjects who were supervisors left the USAO, were
- 45:30transitioning to other jobs or were absent at critical junctures,
- 45:34Acosta should have ensured more effective coordination and communication during
- 45:38the negotiations and before approving the final NPA. The NPA
- 45:43was a unique resolution and one that required greater oversight
- 45:46in supervision than a costa provided. OPR further concludes that
- 45:51none of the subject attorneys committed professional misconduct with respect
- 45:55to the government's interactions with victims. The subjects did not
- 45:59intentionally or rectlessly violate a clear and unambiguous duty under
- 46:03the CVRA by entering into the NPA without consulting with
- 46:07the victims. Because the USAO resolved the Epstein investigation without
- 46:11federal criminal charge. Significantly, at the time the NPA was signed,
- 46:16the Department did not interpret CVR rights to attach unless
- 46:20and until federal charges had been filed, and the federal
- 46:23courts had not established a clear and unambiguous standard applying
- 46:27the CVRA before criminal charges were brought. In addition, OPR
- 46:31did not find evidence that the lack of consultation was
- 46:35for the purpose of silencing victims. Nonetheless, the lack of
- 46:38consultation was part of a series of government interactions with
- 46:42victims that ultimately led the public and court condemnation of
- 46:46the government's treatment of the victims. Reflected poorly on the
- 46:50Department as a whole, and is contradictory to the department's
- 46:53mission to minimize the frustration and confusion that victims of
- 46:57crime endure. OPR determined that none of the subjects was
- 47:01responsible for communication sent to certain victims after the NPA
- 47:05was signed that described the case as under investigation and
- 47:09that failed to inform them of the NPA. The letters
- 47:12were sent by an FBI administrative employee who was not
- 47:15directly involved in the investigation, incorporated standard form language used
- 47:20by the FBI when communicating with victims, and were not
- 47:23drafted or reviewed by the subjects. Moreover, the statement that
- 47:27the matter was under investigation was not false, because the
- 47:30government in fact continued to investigate the case in anticipation
- 47:34that Epstein would not fulfill the terms of the NPA. However,
- 47:39the letters risked misleading the victims and contributed to victim
- 47:42frustration and confusion by failing to provide important information about
- 47:46the status of the investigation. The letters also demonstrated a
- 47:51lack of coordination between the federal agencies responsible for communicating
- 47:55with Epstein's victims and showed a lack of attention to
- 47:58oversight regarding communication with victims. After the MPa was signed,
- 48:03Acosta elected to defer to the state Attorney the decision
- 48:06whether to notify victims about the state plea hearing pursue
- 48:09into the state's own victim rights requirements. Although Acosta's decision
- 48:14was within his authority and did not constitute professional misconduct,
- 48:17OPR concludes that Acosta exercised poor judgment when he failed
- 48:22to make certain that the state intended to and would
- 48:25notify victims identified through the federal investigation about the plea hearing.
- 48:30His decision led victims uninformed about an important proceeding and
- 48:34resolved the federal investigation, an investigation about which the USAO
- 48:39had communicated with victims for months. It also ultimately created
- 48:44the misimpression that the department intentionally sought to silence the victims.
- 48:48A Costa failed to ensure that victims were made aware
- 48:51of court proceedings that were related to their own cases,
- 48:54and thus he failed to ensure that victims were treated
- 48:56with forthrightness and dignity. ARC concludes that the decision to
- 49:01postpone notifying victims about the terms of the NPA after
- 49:05it was signed, and the omission of information about the
- 49:08NPA during victim interviews and conversations with victims attorneys in
- 49:12two thousand and eight do not constitute professional misconduct. Contemporaneous
- 49:17records show that these actions were based on strategic concerns
- 49:21about creating impeachment evidence. At Epstein, victims had financial motives
- 49:25to make claims against them, evidence that could be used
- 49:28against victims at trial, and were not meant for the
- 49:31purpose of silencing victims. Nonetheless, the failure to reevaluate the
- 49:35strategy prior to interviews of victims and discussions with victims
- 49:39attorneys occurring in two thousand and eight led to interactions
- 49:42that contributed to victim's feelings that the government was intentionally
- 49:46concealing information from them. After examining the full scope and
- 49:50context of the government's interactions with victims, OPR concludes that
- 49:55the government's lack of transparency and its inconsistent messages led
- 49:58to victims feeling confused, used, and ill treated by the government.
- 50:02Gave victims and the public the misimpression that the government
- 50:05had colluded with Epstein's counsel to keep the NPA secret
- 50:08from the victims, and undercut public confidence in the legitimacy
- 50:12of the resulting agreement. The overall result of the subjects
- 50:17handling of this case understandably left many victims feeling ignored
- 50:21and frustrated, and resulted in extensive public criticism in some
- 50:25OPR concludes that the victims were not treated with forthrightness
- 50:29and sensitivity expected by the department. All right, folks, well
- 50:34that does it for this mammoth beast. And I'll tell
- 50:37you what. If I've learned anything about the OPR and
- 50:40the process that goes into it, I've learned this that
- 50:44all of these OIG reports, all of these Inspector General reports,
- 50:49all of these internal investigations never lead to any sort
- 50:52of change. So what's the point. The whole reason that
- 50:55they do it is so that they can come out
- 50:57and get a narrative on the record, and that's what
- 51:00they're doing here, and that's exactly what they did with
- 51:02the OIG report into Epstein's death, and on and on
- 51:06it goes. So you see from getting the whole report
- 51:09yourself that the whole process was straight up garbage, and
- 51:12were once again left with this question, who's watching the watchers?
- 51:18All right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one.
- 51:20All of the information that goes with this episode can
- 51:22be found in the description box.