Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Updates on discovered remains: Natalee Holloway & Chase Massner

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Updates on discovered remains: Natalee Holloway & Chase Massner · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: zoom dot com, legal zoom dot com Climb Stories with
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two,
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Speaker 1: two thousand five. On the Small Island of a Rubot,
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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway was with friends at a local bar where
1:15
Speaker 1: she was last seen getting a ride with Uron Vandersloughte.
1:18
Speaker 1: Natalie's disappearance remains a mystery. Her dad says that he
1:22
Speaker 1: in a private eye found human remains in a rubot.
1:25
Speaker 1: We took those remains and had them remains tested, and
1:28
Speaker 1: then just returned last week. That's her human remains. Will
1:30
Speaker 1: there be able to be some kind of test ave
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Speaker 1: that will answer once in Paul whether this is Natalie.
1:35
Speaker 1: We're in the process of doing a d n A test.
1:37
Speaker 1: Dave Holloway says that a friend of a man who
1:39
Speaker 1: was once suspected in her disappearance tipped them off. I
1:42
Speaker 1: know that there's a possibility this could be someone else,
1:45
Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to wait and see a major
1:53
Speaker 1: breakthrough in the search for Alabama Beauty Honor student Natalie Holloway.
1:59
Speaker 1: Unless you been living under a rock or in a cave,
2:02
Speaker 1: you know that Natalie Holloway from Mountain Brook, Alabama, all
2:07
Speaker 1: set to head to college even with the college scholarship,
2:10
Speaker 1: goes on her high school senior trip to Aruba. The
2:14
Speaker 1: trip is heavily chaperoned. Her parents take her to the
2:19
Speaker 1: departure point. They love honor, They waved goodbye and they
2:23
Speaker 1: never see Natalie Holloway again. Let me tell you something,
2:29
Speaker 1: but my daughter went on her first girl Scout trip.
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Speaker 1: You know who was telling them three cars behind when
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Speaker 1: they went on their first field trip in a school
2:39
Speaker 1: bus to a museum. Yeah, that was me in a
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Speaker 1: pair of sunglasses, like ten cars back telling oh yes,
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Speaker 1: I did you know why because of Natalie Holloway. Because
2:50
Speaker 1: they took every precaution they could. This trip again was
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Speaker 1: heavily chaperoned. Everything was safe and secure. Enter yourn Xander Slute,
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Speaker 1: the son of an Auruben judge Paula S. Vanderslot, who
3:08
Speaker 1: many people believe covered up the kidnap, the disappearance and
3:13
Speaker 1: the death of Natalie Holloway. I Nancy Grace, this is
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Speaker 1: crime Stories, breaking news in the search for the Alabama teen.
3:22
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway straight out to Art Harris, investigative reporter who
3:28
Speaker 1: covered her disappearance from Aruba along with me. When how
3:31
Speaker 1: Natalie first went missing? Aren't What is the latest? Nancy?
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Speaker 1: Her father has sent away remains they believe were possibly
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Speaker 1: Natalie's to have the DNA analysis, and it has come
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Speaker 1: back of a general conclusion that the remains were from
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Speaker 1: Eastern European descent, suggesting and that is Natalie's heritage, that
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Speaker 1: this could be Natalie. They are waiting for more testing
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Speaker 1: to more in or out, but this is a general
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Speaker 1: kind of test that people do when they send in
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Speaker 1: and subscribe to answers major art. This is major because
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Speaker 1: if this is correct, I am so mad with those
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Speaker 1: Auruban prosecutors who are poo pooing this, saying it's nothing.
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Speaker 1: What do they know? They've been lying to us from
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Speaker 1: the get go, them right along with the Aeruban police.
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Speaker 1: I saw I never put a toe on Aeruban soil
4:28
Speaker 1: after the way they did Natalie Holloway and her family
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Speaker 1: down there. Long story short, Dave Holloway has spent the
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Speaker 1: last twelve years of his life trying to find his
4:41
Speaker 1: daughter or trying to find out what happened to his daughter,
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Speaker 1: including traveling as far away as Nicaragua and other far
4:49
Speaker 1: away destinations to find Natalie Holloway. I mean, can you
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Speaker 1: imagine you wake up every morning, you get a cup
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Speaker 1: of coffee, and you think, as Natalie a sex slaves?
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Speaker 1: Where is she being beaten right now? Is she being abused?
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Speaker 1: Is she in some foreign country and she can't get
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Speaker 1: to the phone. Where's my daughter? I mean, I get
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Speaker 1: so keyed up about this. Sometimes I just drive by
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Speaker 1: the children's school just to make sure it looks safe
5:18
Speaker 1: from the outside. It's just just so upsetting. I don't
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Speaker 1: know how they managed to put one foot in front
5:25
Speaker 1: of the other joining me. In addition to Art Harris,
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Speaker 1: Emmy Award winning reporter, renowned medical examiner from Madison Heights, Wisconsin,
5:37
Speaker 1: Dr William Maroney, author of a brand new book available
5:41
Speaker 1: on Amazon. I'm so proud of this book. American nar
5:45
Speaker 1: Can really fighting the war against opioids taking over our country.
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Speaker 1: Dr Maroney. I want to talk to you about what's
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Speaker 1: happening right now. And first of all, let me started
5:54
Speaker 1: off Dr Maroney with thanking you and Art for being
5:57
Speaker 1: with me. But I am so fed up with people
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Speaker 1: trashing Dave Holloway and acting like this is some kind
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Speaker 1: of a stunt. That man has had a very successful career.
6:10
Speaker 1: He does not need any kind of publicity at all.
6:14
Speaker 1: He doesn't need that. Nobody in his family. You drive
6:17
Speaker 1: down the streets and mountain broken, You'll know what I mean. Okay,
6:21
Speaker 1: it ain't shabby. So he's been on this quest for
6:26
Speaker 1: all these years, twelve years, Dr Maroney, and I really
6:32
Speaker 1: resent people attacking him saying that this is a perfectly
6:37
Speaker 1: timed stunt. You know, he doesn't need that. Uh that
6:42
Speaker 1: said Dr moroney. How important is it that these remains
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Speaker 1: have been identified as a woman of Eastern European descent,
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Speaker 1: just like Natalie. Well, they fit her profile and her background,
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Speaker 1: but they also come linked to a confession of sorts
7:02
Speaker 1: that come because of this investation. We've been waiting twelve years.
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Speaker 1: We asked ourselves twelve years ago, did you're in vanderslute
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Speaker 1: bury the body and we just not finding it? Or
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Speaker 1: did he bring it to see We knew what he
7:16
Speaker 1: was involved and we were waiting to see it. Took
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Speaker 1: twelve years for them to find the possible secondary crime site.
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Speaker 1: And the fact they say there remains means this body
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Speaker 1: may have been dismembered and they're gonna be sending pieces
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Speaker 1: of bone away. And the technology that we have today,
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Speaker 1: the mitochondrial DNA links. Hold on, hold on, hold on,
7:43
Speaker 1: Let's stop the trying for a moment. I think what
7:46
Speaker 1: you just said in regular people talk is that they
7:50
Speaker 1: now will make a comparison of these bones DNA through
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Speaker 1: mitochondrial DNA. In regular talk, that means d NA derived
8:01
Speaker 1: from the mother. Why are first of all, how do
8:05
Speaker 1: you extract DNA from bones? Why does it take so long? Well,
8:09
Speaker 1: they're going to be able to have some kind of
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Speaker 1: genetic information from bone marrow from some some other damaged tissue.
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Speaker 1: But linking these samples direct, how do you get it?
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Speaker 1: You're back, You're already ahead of me. You're too linking.
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Speaker 1: How do you get the DNA out of a bone
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Speaker 1: that you dig up out of the earth? Dr Maroney.
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Speaker 1: You grind it up and you take sample after sample
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Speaker 1: to see. It's like a puzzle. There are some pieces
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Speaker 1: that this piece is missing, but piece B and C
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Speaker 1: are present, so you're missing A. And you grind it up,
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Speaker 1: and you look at other pieces and piece A is present,
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Speaker 1: but C PC is missing, and you end up putting
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Speaker 1: a piece of DNA back together that has been damaged
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Speaker 1: that you can't see an entirety. But when you're done,
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Speaker 1: it'll match the mother if this is the Okay, I
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Speaker 1: think what you're saying is you grind up the bone. Okay.
9:08
Speaker 1: See I thought what you did was go into the bone,
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Speaker 1: the center of the bone to get bone marrow. Is
9:15
Speaker 1: that not where the marrow is in a bone, in
9:17
Speaker 1: the center of the bone. It is, But it's gonna
9:20
Speaker 1: be dried now, Isn't that just like dried blood? You
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Speaker 1: can get DNA from dried blood. Can't you get it
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Speaker 1: from dried bon marrow? Except in the blood, the only
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Speaker 1: um place for the DNA are cells that have nucleus,
9:36
Speaker 1: and the actual red blood cells, the large component of blood,
9:39
Speaker 1: are a nucleated. That means they don't have a nucleus,
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Speaker 1: and the nucleus of the cell is where you get
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Speaker 1: the genetic information. And there's more genetic information in the
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Speaker 1: cells in the marrow because they're pluripotent. What is that?
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Speaker 1: It means the cells in the marrow can reproduce in
10:01
Speaker 1: many different directions. When when people talk about well, you
10:05
Speaker 1: know there's immunological cells, so there's B cells and C cells,
10:09
Speaker 1: or there could be white cells for infection, or there
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Speaker 1: could be red cells, or those cells could take off
10:15
Speaker 1: and just like stem cell therapy, they can develop into
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Speaker 1: other cells, many different other cells. So the plural potency
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Speaker 1: growth and direction and that is driven by the nucleus. Okay,
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Speaker 1: never mind, Okay, I wish I had not even asked.
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Speaker 1: I appreciate the effort, but I majored in Shakespearean literature
10:36
Speaker 1: or not microbiology or whatever they you majored in. Just
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Speaker 1: take it as a compliment, Okay, Long story short, they
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Speaker 1: grind the bone ut all right, Mitochondrial DNA they get
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Speaker 1: from the mom. Why and keep it simple, Dr Marone, Okay,
10:53
Speaker 1: I know you're the m D I understand that, and
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Speaker 1: I respect it. But mitochondrial DNA is a secondary type
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Speaker 1: of DNA. You don't have the nucleus I think that
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Speaker 1: you're referring to, and you take mitochondrial DNA as a
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Speaker 1: second choice. So what do they get DNA from Natalie's mom, Beth,
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Speaker 1: and then compare it to the ground up bone DNA? Yes,
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Speaker 1: but whether you're male or female, all of your mitochondrial
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Speaker 1: DNA comes from your mother. So men and women, brothers
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Speaker 1: and sisters will all have inherited Okay, stop right there
11:31
Speaker 1: before you go go off on a biological tangent that I
11:34
Speaker 1: don't know what you're saying. Tell me this, Dr Maroney,
11:37
Speaker 1: and again, dummy down for me. Okay. They know that
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Speaker 1: these bones are from a woman of Eastern European descent,
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Speaker 1: which Natalie is. How do they know these bones are
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Speaker 1: a woman? First of all, because when they do the bones,
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Speaker 1: every cell has the potential to have some kind of
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Speaker 1: X or why, and in those genetic markers, x X
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Speaker 1: is female and x Y is male. Okay, I got
12:09
Speaker 1: it X versus x Y. I understand that much. So
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Speaker 1: you can tell that much from the ground up DNA
12:15
Speaker 1: or from just looking at the bone. They have to
12:17
Speaker 1: look at the DNA for that for for for the gene.
12:21
Speaker 1: Now let me understand, we understand. I believe that some
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Speaker 1: for instant anthropologists can look at a bone and tell
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Speaker 1: me if it's a woman, if they have the pelvis.
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Speaker 1: But I don't know that they've got the pelvis here.
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Speaker 1: So how okay, you're telling me you can tell it's
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Speaker 1: a woman from the ground up DNA. How about that
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Speaker 1: she is of Eastern European descent? And what does that mean?
12:42
Speaker 1: Eastern European descent. What that means is that you're going
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Speaker 1: to have certain genetic qualities that might say fair skin,
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Speaker 1: auburn hair, so that you know that northern and Eastern
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Speaker 1: European traits, whereas if they're a Pacific islander, it'll be
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Speaker 1: black hair and brown eyes. Got it? Got it? Okay?
13:07
Speaker 1: Now Also with me is Aunt Harris, Emmy Award winning reporter.
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Speaker 1: Arn't let's take a call with Dr Moroney out to
13:14
Speaker 1: the lines. I think I have Joe from Florida, high.
13:17
Speaker 1: What's your question, Well, I have in connection with this,
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Speaker 1: I wonder exactly where the bones were found? Number one?
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Speaker 1: And the comments I have are I think it's absolutely
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Speaker 1: despicable of Vanderslu's father, the judge, to have probably covered
13:35
Speaker 1: up his son's murder. I mean, that is incredible. Um.
13:43
Speaker 1: But and I would have guessed that, because no one
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Speaker 1: has found that found anything till this moment, that she
13:51
Speaker 1: was washed away in the ocean. But what do we know.
13:54
Speaker 1: Let's answer his question, aren't where were the bones found?
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Speaker 1: They were und Nancy, of course on the island, not
14:02
Speaker 1: far apparently from Vanderslut's house. But they were more interestingly
14:08
Speaker 1: led there by a former roommate who was the informant
14:12
Speaker 1: of yourn vander Slut, who says he confessed to him
14:16
Speaker 1: in confidence so once upon a time that after he
14:20
Speaker 1: fed her the g HB date rape drug in a
14:24
Speaker 1: drink and she foamed at the mouth passed out. No
14:27
Speaker 1: one really believes or knows what to believe from him,
14:30
Speaker 1: but this guy said that the father did in fact
14:33
Speaker 1: help cover up for him, and that these remains were
14:38
Speaker 1: dumped here and that this was only known to him
14:43
Speaker 1: because of his close relationship with your in and now
14:48
Speaker 1: they have led Dave and his private investigator T. J.
14:52
Speaker 1: Ward to this site. Unclear how they got these this
14:55
Speaker 1: material off the island into whatever lab is doing it,
14:59
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, in good faith, we have hope
15:02
Speaker 1: now that this might be one step closer to closure,
15:07
Speaker 1: to finding out that this could possibly be Natalie, because
15:11
Speaker 1: of the connection between the source of the information and
15:15
Speaker 1: the fact that these are this is DNA from an
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Speaker 1: Eastern European a woman to be some European descent, as
15:22
Speaker 1: you said, Matt, Natalie her mother presumably too. And now
15:26
Speaker 1: they've got to wait for more detailed testing that the
15:29
Speaker 1: doctor would be more familiar with in terms of what
15:32
Speaker 1: that could be, to get closer to a confirmation. Nancy.
15:36
Speaker 1: Back to Dr William Moroney. Dr Maroney, you were saying
15:39
Speaker 1: that what adds so much credibility to this possibly being
15:43
Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway is that it was in connection with a
15:48
Speaker 1: so called confession. What do you mean by that, Well,
15:51
Speaker 1: if you find bones at all, you really don't have
15:55
Speaker 1: any probable cause to test them. But if you have
15:59
Speaker 1: somebody say I helped somebody dispose of a body, and
16:03
Speaker 1: we put it over there, and you go there and
16:05
Speaker 1: there's bones, even if it's not a whole skeleton, if
16:08
Speaker 1: it's remains, which is partial skeleton or pieces of bones,
16:13
Speaker 1: then you'd say, well, this is probably not an explorer.
16:17
Speaker 1: And the age determination, which will come basically on size
16:22
Speaker 1: and thickness measurements, will be putting that Eastern European female
16:28
Speaker 1: somewhere between the age of puberty and young adult female status.
16:34
Speaker 1: That'll be a second clue. When you look at the
16:39
Speaker 1: genetic traces, the ethnic heritage, the sex, and then the age,
16:45
Speaker 1: you start putting this together like a puzzle and it
16:48
Speaker 1: and you'd say, well, this isn't a post menopausal woman
16:53
Speaker 1: from the seventeenth century. It's going to come down to
16:56
Speaker 1: the age of the bones and the mitochondrial DNA is
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Speaker 1: Natalie Holloway's father one step closer to finding the fate
17:07
Speaker 1: of his daughter. New but unconfirmed reports now suggesting Dave
17:12
Speaker 1: Holloway has made that step a step closer to the
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Speaker 1: discovery of his missing daughter preluminary DNA test reportedly showing
17:22
Speaker 1: that newly discovered human bones are from a young woman
17:26
Speaker 1: of Eastern European descent, just like Natalie. I want to
17:31
Speaker 1: thank all of you for calling in and especially for
17:34
Speaker 1: our guest today, Dr William Moroney, medical examiner joining me
17:38
Speaker 1: from Madison Heights, Wisconsin, and Emmy Award winning reporter Art
17:43
Speaker 1: Harris joining us, caller Joe from Florida. Joe, your theory
17:47
Speaker 1: that she was washed to see reminds me of all
17:51
Speaker 1: of the false leads and the I don't really know
17:56
Speaker 1: what to call him, the red herrings that have been
17:58
Speaker 1: thrown at the Holloway family since Natalie first went missing.
18:02
Speaker 1: We had that she was taken out on a party
18:04
Speaker 1: boat and thrown overboard. We had that she was sold
18:08
Speaker 1: into sex slavery and was in another country. Oh my goodness,
18:13
Speaker 1: that that she was in a tar pit. That means
18:15
Speaker 1: there have been so many false leads in this case,
18:19
Speaker 1: and I hate that the family has gone through this.
18:22
Speaker 1: But you brought up, Joe that there was the one
18:26
Speaker 1: theory that her she had been thrown in the water
18:29
Speaker 1: and that she was lost at sea. I believe that
18:31
Speaker 1: was the theory you brought up Joe in Florida. Well,
18:34
Speaker 1: that was one possibility that seemed because no one found
18:39
Speaker 1: anything until now, that was one possibility of her completely disappearing.
18:46
Speaker 1: And you know, Joe in Florida, Aruba is not big.
18:50
Speaker 1: I mean you can be on one side of a
18:52
Speaker 1: ruba and basically see the other side in the distance.
18:55
Speaker 1: I mean it's not big. And you're right when no
18:58
Speaker 1: bones were ever discovered and no remains, that led everyone
19:03
Speaker 1: to think that she was in the water. In fact,
19:07
Speaker 1: Art Harris, investigative reporter. Do you remember when there was
19:11
Speaker 1: a couple that were snorkeling or scuba diving and they
19:14
Speaker 1: actually saw what appeared to be a human skull? Do
19:17
Speaker 1: you remember that? Yeah, Nancy. In fact, the water theory,
19:20
Speaker 1: if you remember where it came from. It was a
19:23
Speaker 1: friend of Yourn's who ran one of those boats. And
19:27
Speaker 1: so you've got to think, was this a convenient uh
19:30
Speaker 1: diversion to steer them away from what really happened? Because
19:35
Speaker 1: who's going to find the body that that long after
19:38
Speaker 1: in the water with the current shifting and the Navy
19:41
Speaker 1: was out there Belave, the coast Guard and a lot
19:43
Speaker 1: of a lot of searching was going on, Nancy, and
19:46
Speaker 1: nothing turned up. Well, if you recall, let's follow that through,
19:50
Speaker 1: there was actually a party boat in Aruba and people
19:55
Speaker 1: would rent the party boat and go out on the
19:57
Speaker 1: water and party all night long. In fact, this party
20:01
Speaker 1: boat owner. I recall it very well, Steve Gregory Crows.
20:05
Speaker 1: I think that actually Steve Gregory Cruise, as I recall,
20:10
Speaker 1: um was actually arrested a day after he was contacted
20:14
Speaker 1: by police and he went voluntearily to the station to
20:16
Speaker 1: give a statement. According to his boss, Cruz was a
20:19
Speaker 1: disc jockey, as I recall, and he was on the
20:22
Speaker 1: party boat Tattoo. I remember it like he was like
20:27
Speaker 1: it was yesterday, and he knew one of the Syrens
20:32
Speaker 1: Colpo brothers. Art. Take me back to our investigation. You
20:36
Speaker 1: were there on the island when Natalie went You went
20:40
Speaker 1: to the island when Natalie went missing, and we covered
20:42
Speaker 1: it hard hard, And I remember this party boat, Nancy, Yeah,
20:48
Speaker 1: Nancy laugh, Yeah. And you remember Mary started at what
20:53
Speaker 1: Carlos and Charlie's uh, where everybody flocked for for a
20:58
Speaker 1: little party and drinking. And of course nobody knew that
21:01
Speaker 1: that the m o of the bar was for your
21:04
Speaker 1: and two single women out and put a date rate
21:08
Speaker 1: drug in their drink and uh and after that they
21:10
Speaker 1: were putty in his hands. And so the last scene
21:14
Speaker 1: Natalie was in a car with him and the Kalpo
21:17
Speaker 1: brothers leaving Carlos and Charlie's and all the different theories
21:23
Speaker 1: stun out from there. There's been so many different stories.
21:26
Speaker 1: This one has some credibility, at least because supposedly came
21:31
Speaker 1: from a former roommate of Yourn who heard this quote
21:35
Speaker 1: confession and confidence at one point. Uh and a lot
21:39
Speaker 1: of the pieces seemed to fit with other things we've
21:41
Speaker 1: independently confirmed along the way. Nancy, when Urn Harris says
21:46
Speaker 1: date rape drug, he's referring to Gamma Hi droxy beauty rate.
21:51
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about that, Dr Maroney, I also
21:54
Speaker 1: believe that was slipped into n Allie's drink at the
21:57
Speaker 1: bar for she and all of her friends were Arlives
22:00
Speaker 1: and Charlie's. Um. What is g h B, Dr Maroney?
22:05
Speaker 1: And how does it affect you? G HB falls into
22:09
Speaker 1: a category that we call two words, a sedative hypnotic.
22:15
Speaker 1: So it makes you relax and it makes you sleep.
22:18
Speaker 1: And sedative hypnotics tend to lead to some kind of amnesia,
22:24
Speaker 1: so that even if you're not asleep, you're disinhibited and
22:27
Speaker 1: you don't remember what you did. So that's why it's
22:31
Speaker 1: used because it goes to the brain and it knocks
22:33
Speaker 1: out some of your inhibitions. And the problem with those
22:38
Speaker 1: kind of drugs and the reason why she would have
22:40
Speaker 1: passed out, foamed at the mouth and died is those drugs,
22:44
Speaker 1: just like opiates, just like our opioid crisis in America,
22:48
Speaker 1: just like heroin or something like that, shut down the
22:52
Speaker 1: respiratory system. And when you don't breathe with the proper pressures,
22:59
Speaker 1: you begin to home because there's a pressure imbalance in
23:02
Speaker 1: your lungs. Many opioid overdosed tests or heroin overdosed tests,
23:08
Speaker 1: when you get unseen, they've foamed through their mouth and nose.
23:12
Speaker 1: And if there's reports of her foaming from this um
23:17
Speaker 1: Mr Ludwig that was part of his roommate uh entourage,
23:23
Speaker 1: it's because it's shut down our breathing and she would
23:26
Speaker 1: have died of hypoxia, not enough air, because the drugs
23:31
Speaker 1: shut her brain off and she couldn't Breathe makes you
23:35
Speaker 1: forget to breathe, right, yeah, and shut really and if
23:38
Speaker 1: you if you live through it, you don't remember any
23:41
Speaker 1: of it. Very convenient, manthy, Yeah, you're right, And that's
23:45
Speaker 1: happened to so many women, and it's tasteless, it's outterless.
23:49
Speaker 1: You never know you're drinking it, which is why I
23:51
Speaker 1: advise people never leave your drink unattended. If you find
23:56
Speaker 1: out you do you have left it unattended, just get
23:59
Speaker 1: a new one. It's three dollars. Please don't do it.
24:03
Speaker 1: It's just so not worth it. Another thing that really
24:08
Speaker 1: struck me, and I believe Natalie's mom, Beth told me
24:12
Speaker 1: this to my face when we were talking off air,
24:16
Speaker 1: that in one of his many statements, you're in Vanderslute
24:20
Speaker 1: described the underwear that Natalie was wearing that night, So
24:26
Speaker 1: knowing that, and she did own appear underwear like that,
24:30
Speaker 1: I think it had flowers on it, as I recall
24:32
Speaker 1: what Beth told me was a long time ago. Beth
24:35
Speaker 1: told me that. But if that's true, and it's hard
24:38
Speaker 1: to tell what's true from your Vanderslute, then it was
24:41
Speaker 1: a lot more than him giving her a drug or
24:45
Speaker 1: her drinking too much and choking. There was a rape
24:48
Speaker 1: involved as well, and armed with that evidence I can
24:52
Speaker 1: then extrapolate to what I think happened that night. He
24:57
Speaker 1: also said you're in Vanderslute. The judges son allis vander Sloop,
25:01
Speaker 1: who I thought she had been prosecuted as well, But
25:03
Speaker 1: that won't happen because he's dead. You're in Vandor Sloop
25:06
Speaker 1: gave his father a heart attack, he dropped dead. My
25:09
Speaker 1: theory is that you're in vander Sloop did give Natalie
25:12
Speaker 1: Holloway the date rape drug, as he had done in
25:15
Speaker 1: the past to other women, or I don't think she
25:17
Speaker 1: would have ever left with him. Her friends were there
25:19
Speaker 1: at the bar that night. They had planned to leave together,
25:22
Speaker 1: and then they see her driving off with him. They're
25:24
Speaker 1: like what what? And that then he attempted to rape
25:30
Speaker 1: her and killed her. Now, she may have choked on
25:36
Speaker 1: the froth that Dr Maroney was describing, but that's still
25:40
Speaker 1: a felony murder. If a death occurs in the commission
25:43
Speaker 1: of a felony, which intentional drugging is an aggravated assault,
25:48
Speaker 1: that is a felony murder for which the death penalty
25:51
Speaker 1: can be sought. Now, I know I went to warp
25:53
Speaker 1: speed on that, but let me break it down. You
25:56
Speaker 1: give a lady a date rape drug and she chokes
25:58
Speaker 1: on it and dies, you're in it for a death
26:01
Speaker 1: penalty case. That is murder one, even if you did
26:05
Speaker 1: not intend her to die. If someone dies in the
26:08
Speaker 1: commission of any felony armed robbery, burglary, robbing a bank,
26:13
Speaker 1: drugging them. You're on the hook for felony murder and
26:16
Speaker 1: that is the same as premeditated or malice murder as
26:21
Speaker 1: far as sentencing. That's what I think happened. Dr Moroney,
26:24
Speaker 1: Do you have anything to back it up? Now? I
26:26
Speaker 1: agree with what you said. And as soon as she died,
26:29
Speaker 1: if he was involved in a criminal sexual assault, he
26:33
Speaker 1: could not have that body show up anywhere because his
26:37
Speaker 1: DNA would have been in it, and he had to
26:39
Speaker 1: make sure everything that was done was going to prevent
26:43
Speaker 1: finding that body so that his DNA could not be
26:48
Speaker 1: linked to her death. Take a listen to what Dave
26:54
Speaker 1: Holloway has to say. I have a question, what is
27:01
Speaker 1: your in result? I mean, what do you want the most?
27:05
Speaker 1: Do you want someone in jail or do you just
27:09
Speaker 1: want to know what happened to have it documented? How
27:13
Speaker 1: do you see this well? I mean my number one
27:15
Speaker 1: goal is to find Natalie and find out what happened.
27:19
Speaker 1: And then the second the golf priority and goal is
27:22
Speaker 1: is your in Vanderslop was responsible for her death and
27:25
Speaker 1: I want to see him him dance. And then number
27:29
Speaker 1: three is John uh committed a crime where he disposed
27:34
Speaker 1: of her body. So those three things are my priorities.
27:41
Speaker 1: You know, you're in for what he did. He needs
27:45
Speaker 1: to serve his time for Natalie's murder. He's just an
27:51
Speaker 1: evil person. Evil. I think you're in Vanderslop knows what
27:57
Speaker 1: happened to Natalie, and I just want another truth right now.
28:04
Speaker 1: I hope it is as that they will arrest John,
28:06
Speaker 1: hold him for a disposal of human remains, and then
28:10
Speaker 1: finally bring princh arges against him. Back to Art Harris,
28:13
Speaker 1: you know when you hear Dave Holloway talking and same
28:17
Speaker 1: thing with Beth, the heartbreak and their voice is still evident.
28:23
Speaker 1: I mean, he says quote, I've always tried to be
28:27
Speaker 1: skeptical about it because I don't want to be disappointed.
28:31
Speaker 1: I mean, Art just they have been up against the
28:38
Speaker 1: law so many times here, and think about the cooperation
28:43
Speaker 1: that you would get if this had happened in the
28:46
Speaker 1: in the States. You know, the full force of law enforcement,
28:49
Speaker 1: all the forensics, all the searching. Here they have basically
28:53
Speaker 1: a a rogue police state that that marches to their
28:57
Speaker 1: own drummer doesn't want anything to get I mean a body.
29:00
Speaker 1: If they had found her body on the island. Think
29:02
Speaker 1: of that, would they have made the tourism industry take
29:07
Speaker 1: another black eye. I mean, so they've got at all
29:09
Speaker 1: costs to protect their image as such as it is.
29:12
Speaker 1: Uh and and to stone Wall and UH. You know,
29:15
Speaker 1: I have talked to some several UH sources who work
29:19
Speaker 1: with Uban authorities and they are very insistent about keeping
29:24
Speaker 1: American authorities at arms links. They don't want them on
29:29
Speaker 1: the island to be able to report UH on the
29:33
Speaker 1: horror story of an investigation that they did. UH and UH.
29:37
Speaker 1: So you know, it's it's really it's tragic because normally,
29:40
Speaker 1: you know far you know, if you die abroad, the
29:43
Speaker 1: FBI could have jurisdiction to come in uh and work
29:46
Speaker 1: the case. Not another thing, Dave Holloway said, And I'm referring,
29:50
Speaker 1: I'm referring back to what Dr Maroney alluded to that
29:54
Speaker 1: these bones are not just a major breakthrough in the
29:57
Speaker 1: sense that they are of a young woman of Eastern
30:02
Speaker 1: European descent. And when we say that where we're talking
30:06
Speaker 1: about London, France, um, anywhere in Europe. But they are
30:13
Speaker 1: connected to this exact location, They're connected to Natalie. How
30:18
Speaker 1: is that? According to Dave Holloway quote, we have a
30:22
Speaker 1: person who states he was directly involved with yourn Vander
30:25
Speaker 1: Salute and disposing of Natalie's remains. I thought, you know,
30:30
Speaker 1: there may be something to this. And when you see
30:33
Speaker 1: all this Oxygen special, all they went through, getting wired
30:39
Speaker 1: up and getting a confidential informant to approach this guy,
30:43
Speaker 1: it was quite the ordeal grande a to try to
30:48
Speaker 1: get this information. You know another thing, Dr Maroney, people
30:53
Speaker 1: are saying, oh wow, this is a coincidence that there
30:56
Speaker 1: is this Oxygen show. You know what do you remember
30:59
Speaker 1: Dr Murray, Tony and Aunt Harris when Beth Beth the
31:02
Speaker 1: mom was funded by somebody and the crew went with
31:08
Speaker 1: her to Peru where your and Vander Salute is now
31:13
Speaker 1: and she confronted him trying to get answers about Natalie's whereabouts.
31:18
Speaker 1: If it hadn't been for that crew getting access to
31:22
Speaker 1: him in Peru, it wouldn't have happened. You know. Finally,
31:27
Speaker 1: Dave Holloway has somebody helping him and it's the Oxygen
31:32
Speaker 1: team and they're filming it. You know what, I say,
31:36
Speaker 1: power to them if they can help find Natalie or
31:40
Speaker 1: bring attention to Natalie. Power to them. They're doing more
31:45
Speaker 1: than the Aruba Police Force ever did. I can tell
31:47
Speaker 1: you that much. What about it? What about it? Dr Maroney?
31:52
Speaker 1: The invisible hand of journalism is now the fist that
31:58
Speaker 1: should have been criminal. Just this, well put and Aunt
32:02
Speaker 1: Harris when you were down there, When you were down there,
32:05
Speaker 1: the police weren't doing a darned ding. Journalists reporters like
32:10
Speaker 1: you were the ones chasing all the leads to try
32:12
Speaker 1: to find her. Now the prosecutors now say it's not
32:16
Speaker 1: human remains. I would take that with a box of salt.
32:19
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Art? How many and Nancy? How
32:23
Speaker 1: many different police lieutenant superintendents have there been down there?
32:27
Speaker 1: How many different stories have been told? How often have
32:31
Speaker 1: they denied any sort of lead that has come forward
32:35
Speaker 1: from the possibility of being buried at the at the
32:38
Speaker 1: Marriott Hotel site that they refused to excavate. I mean,
32:41
Speaker 1: there has been no cooperation. You've had a number of
32:44
Speaker 1: folks on your show over the years and have gotten
32:47
Speaker 1: double talk how how often? I mean, it must be tough.
32:51
Speaker 1: It's tough to listen to because you just have to
32:53
Speaker 1: assume when they're open their mouths they're not telling the truth.
32:58
Speaker 1: And I mean it's all shrouded with what happened with
33:00
Speaker 1: the father, paula stander salute. I remember trying to interview
33:05
Speaker 1: him and he he took off running, and as I
33:08
Speaker 1: always say, all there was was the elbows and tail hole.
33:11
Speaker 1: That's all I saw him. He took off and all
33:12
Speaker 1: I saw was his rear end running down the street.
33:14
Speaker 1: That was a judge, for Pete's sake, the influence of
33:17
Speaker 1: Nancy they had on the island. If you ask what
33:20
Speaker 1: it was like when you're in, for example, went to
33:22
Speaker 1: the casino, he was treated like royalty and uh why
33:26
Speaker 1: is that? I mean he had his you know, he
33:29
Speaker 1: had his pick of watter. He was strut around and
33:31
Speaker 1: and I had pretty good rolls and hangers on and money,
33:35
Speaker 1: plenty of money to throw around. So this was someone
33:38
Speaker 1: who was connected. It's almost like a like a mob
33:41
Speaker 1: family of a Reuben royalty. It's a hard, hard thing
33:45
Speaker 1: to even imagine, but that atmosphere contributed to this whole
33:50
Speaker 1: shroud of of cover up. Niche well, as I always say,
33:53
Speaker 1: and I know you two are going to fall off
33:55
Speaker 1: your chair when you don't know a horse. Look at
33:58
Speaker 1: his track record, yourn Vanderslut went on to murder another
34:03
Speaker 1: young woman, Stephanie Tassiana Flores, from a very well connected family.
34:08
Speaker 1: They met in a casino. It's all on video. They
34:12
Speaker 1: leave together, and the police theory is that in your
34:16
Speaker 1: in Vanderslout's room, she googled him or looked him up
34:20
Speaker 1: and confronted him about Natalie, and he murdered her. He
34:24
Speaker 1: didn't give a thig about it. After he murders her,
34:28
Speaker 1: the room is bloody and destroyed and disseveled, disheveled, he
34:32
Speaker 1: goes out and gets coffee in a Danish comes and
34:35
Speaker 1: sits down about three feet from her dead body, and
34:38
Speaker 1: kicks back and has his coffee and his doughnut, and
34:42
Speaker 1: then he's caught on camera out in the hallway of
34:45
Speaker 1: the hotel, Doctor Moroney, it looks like a deer in
34:47
Speaker 1: the headlights, leaving, leaving her body. There is that cathology?
34:53
Speaker 1: Or is he satan incarnate? You know? How can you
34:59
Speaker 1: say satan? And it's okay When I say somebody's satan
35:01
Speaker 1: or evil, everybody goes berserk. But yes, I would think
35:05
Speaker 1: that he's evil incarnate. And I really believe that in life,
35:09
Speaker 1: you pick a side good or evil, And yeah, you
35:13
Speaker 1: mess up, sometimes make the wrong call. But there's a
35:17
Speaker 1: battle going on right now, Dr Maroney, and I firmly
35:20
Speaker 1: agree with you. Twelve years we waited for this, twelve
35:24
Speaker 1: years evil from an island at evil Nancy and where
35:28
Speaker 1: people's son and have fun, but have no idea what
35:32
Speaker 1: could be around the corner should they wander into another
35:37
Speaker 1: bar like she did. So beware. You know what I'm
35:40
Speaker 1: gonna do. After I talked to you too, I'm getting
35:42
Speaker 1: myself in my minivan and I'm going to go check
35:44
Speaker 1: on the children. Okay, we are waiting for the final
35:49
Speaker 1: outcome in the search for Natalie Holloway. My friends and
35:52
Speaker 1: colleagues Dr William Moroney were now to medical examiner. You know,
35:56
Speaker 1: I'm just so glad I met you. To Maroney joining
36:01
Speaker 1: me out of mass And Heights, Wisconsin today. My longtime
36:04
Speaker 1: friend and colleague Aren't Harris Emmy Award winning reporter. Thank
36:11
Speaker 1: you guys so much. In our continued search for justice
36:14
Speaker 1: for Natalie, another piece of the puzzle has been added
36:19
Speaker 1: to trying to solve the mystery of the disappearance of
36:22
Speaker 1: a beautiful young boy. That's the way his mom describes him. Uh,
36:29
Speaker 1: beautiful young boy. I remember when I saw his photo
36:32
Speaker 1: albums of him as a child, his mom showed them
36:35
Speaker 1: to me when I first met with Stephanie. That beautiful
36:39
Speaker 1: boy turned into a young man that everyone loved, that
36:44
Speaker 1: went off to fight for our country an Iraqi war
36:47
Speaker 1: Vett comes home to his lovely wife, absolutely lovely. I
36:51
Speaker 1: wish you could meet her like I did Amanda and
36:54
Speaker 1: their little girls, only to meet with what he escaped
36:59
Speaker 1: in Iraq, okay, and that is death. What happened to
37:04
Speaker 1: Chase Master? We started with finding Chase Master, and boy
37:09
Speaker 1: did we after the efforts of Team Chase, Chase's family
37:16
Speaker 1: and you guys joining us on Sirius XMO. Right now,
37:22
Speaker 1: Chase's remains were found, or we thought they were his
37:27
Speaker 1: remains found under a patio under a slab of cement
37:32
Speaker 1: laid by an amateur. Right now we have breaking knees
37:36
Speaker 1: in the search for Chase Master. And joining me from
37:39
Speaker 1: NBC eleven alive is Jessica Nol. Jessica, thank you so much.
37:43
Speaker 1: What do we know? So? Right now? What we know
37:46
Speaker 1: is that those remains that were found behind that house
37:51
Speaker 1: have been positively identified as Chase Masner. And how do
37:55
Speaker 1: we know that? Jessica No, I mean, I said at
37:57
Speaker 1: the get go, who else do you think is behind
38:00
Speaker 1: his so called friends home, the last person to see him?
38:03
Speaker 1: What I don't understand. That's why the cops twiddled their
38:06
Speaker 1: thumbs all this time. But that's a whole another can
38:08
Speaker 1: of worms. Let's talk about the identification of Chase Master,
38:12
Speaker 1: which is one piece of the puzzle. What do we know, Jessica,
38:15
Speaker 1: the medical examiner is the one who positively ided his remains.
38:20
Speaker 1: But you know, it had taken three weeks, and we
38:24
Speaker 1: talked to his mom, Stephanie. She was expressing her frustration, um,
38:28
Speaker 1: that it had taken so long, and the backup seemed
38:31
Speaker 1: to be that the army had sent um, you know,
38:35
Speaker 1: the wrong den of the wrong records to the medical examiners.
38:38
Speaker 1: Oh dear Lord in Heaven, Oh my stars. I mean,
38:44
Speaker 1: it's like insult to injury because with me is Lee
38:48
Speaker 1: Egan from our team at Crime online dot Com. Lee,
38:52
Speaker 1: it's just been one thing after the next. Remember the
38:56
Speaker 1: mom Stephanie told us at the get go, she egged
39:00
Speaker 1: begged the police to come short search a dumpster that
39:05
Speaker 1: some people thought they saw the friend Brad Clement throw
39:09
Speaker 1: a black bag into. All Right, the police, wouldn't come,
39:12
Speaker 1: wouldn't come, wouldn't come. They finally came and search the
39:16
Speaker 1: wrong dumpster. Then it's taken us this long to get
39:22
Speaker 1: a dog out there. And the reality is, Lea Egan,
39:26
Speaker 1: isn't it true? Volunteers got the dog out there. Volunteers
39:31
Speaker 1: led by Tracy Sergeant, a canine expert, got the dog
39:35
Speaker 1: out there. And am I wrong? Nope, you are absolutely right.
39:39
Speaker 1: They while the mom was begging them to search the dumpster,
39:43
Speaker 1: the ladies on Team Chase, we're begging them to search
39:45
Speaker 1: the yard for years, Please search the yard, Please search
39:49
Speaker 1: the yard. I don't know what happened there. I don't
39:51
Speaker 1: know why they didn't. But then his case got sent
39:55
Speaker 1: over to the cold case unit, and finally these guys
39:59
Speaker 1: listened to them and they got the yard search. Then yes,
40:02
Speaker 1: sergeant brought out her dogs. The dogs hit on the
40:05
Speaker 1: same spot to that they were separated, one dog on
40:08
Speaker 1: the same spot, the other dog was brought in. Well,
40:11
Speaker 1: another thing, Lee Egan, And I'm gonna throw back to
40:13
Speaker 1: Jessica Nole, Jessica from all the years I prosecuted, there's
40:17
Speaker 1: a big difference in bringing out a drug dog, bomb
40:21
Speaker 1: dog to smell explosives, A a dog that can smell
40:24
Speaker 1: drugs on currency, um, A scent dog that will track
40:29
Speaker 1: your scent, like the dog that tracked Lacy Peterson sent
40:32
Speaker 1: from her home on Cavin Covina all the way to
40:35
Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay. He followed her scent that far. To
40:39
Speaker 1: a cadaver dog, you gotta bring the right dog. I mean,
40:42
Speaker 1: don't bring a knife to a gunfight. For Pete's sake.
40:45
Speaker 1: It took us long enough to get a dog out there.
40:47
Speaker 1: I'm very close to cursing right now. But then we
40:51
Speaker 1: had to get a cadaver dog. And Jessica, what happened
40:55
Speaker 1: when a cadaver dog was brought to the scene, Jessica,
40:58
Speaker 1: nol eleven a lot well. I mean, his remains were
41:02
Speaker 1: finally found, taken more than three years UM, after several
41:08
Speaker 1: asks from everyone to check that, and and it took
41:12
Speaker 1: that long to get out there. And you know, the
41:14
Speaker 1: cob County Cold Case Unit is a pretty amazing team
41:17
Speaker 1: of guys. That guys and women who um, they're actually
41:20
Speaker 1: a retired team of detectives who are pretty dogged about
41:25
Speaker 1: getting to the bottom of things. And that's why they're
41:27
Speaker 1: perfect for that unit. And they had the dog out there?
41:30
Speaker 1: And when when you say they had the dog out there,
41:34
Speaker 1: Lee egan, Crime Online reporter, Who who got the dog
41:37
Speaker 1: out there? Actually? Yeah, the the Cold Cana along with
41:41
Speaker 1: people from Team Chase. They both kind of got together.
41:44
Speaker 1: Team Chase called them and got permission from the Cold
41:47
Speaker 1: Case to search the area. Tracy Sargeant wasn't going to
41:50
Speaker 1: bring the dogs out. Let me let me try to
41:52
Speaker 1: pay you down a little bit on this, leag And
41:54
Speaker 1: because you're you're waffling, are you familiar with that term?
41:57
Speaker 1: Let me pitch you on cross this moment. Let's me
41:59
Speaker 1: just give you yes, no question, Lee, whose idea was
42:03
Speaker 1: it to get Tracy Sargeant's dog out there? It was
42:06
Speaker 1: I believe tammy Child's and a couple of other ladies
42:09
Speaker 1: from and they would be from Team Change. Okay, who
42:13
Speaker 1: asked for permission to take the dog out there? Lee egan.
42:16
Speaker 1: Tammy Child's. Tammy Child's oh again again, Team Chase and
42:22
Speaker 1: then the Cold Case Unit, which I'm all for the
42:24
Speaker 1: Cold Case Unit. I'm glad we've got him. They gave permission.
42:28
Speaker 1: But who it's my understanding. Let me just say it,
42:33
Speaker 1: Team Chase got the dog out there. If it hadn't
42:36
Speaker 1: been for them. Tracy would not bring the dog out
42:39
Speaker 1: without police clearance. And I get it with me right now.
42:43
Speaker 1: Is a Team Chase member, Tammy childs Tammy, break it
42:46
Speaker 1: down for me. Give it to me in a nutshell,
42:49
Speaker 1: no waffling, no offensely what happened? How did you get
42:53
Speaker 1: the dog out there? Well, we had got some information,
42:57
Speaker 1: and um, I noticed it wasn't same information that we
43:01
Speaker 1: had heard all this time for three years. And I
43:05
Speaker 1: called Daniel Wilkerson and we started researching at Daniel Wilkerson
43:10
Speaker 1: and Mary McMillan, and we found this guide that said
43:13
Speaker 1: that he had seen Chase in his backyard. Actually the
43:17
Speaker 1: old man had passed away, and Daniel talked to the
43:22
Speaker 1: wife and decided we needed to get the dogs. I
43:26
Speaker 1: called Tracy, he called Cold Case Unit and they agreed
43:32
Speaker 1: and they took over the search. Well, God bless them,
43:36
Speaker 1: God bless the Cold Case Unit one and all, and
43:41
Speaker 1: especially God bless Team Chase. So now we know, on
43:46
Speaker 1: top of all those snaphews. Let me put it mildly,
43:51
Speaker 1: the Army sends the wrong records. Okay, you know what,
43:54
Speaker 1: I can't even think about that right now. I gotta
43:57
Speaker 1: think about what we're doing now now we know it's
44:00
Speaker 1: Chase Masner's remain remains to you, Jessica Nol, NBC eleven Alive,
44:07
Speaker 1: what happens now? So right now the autopsy findings are
44:11
Speaker 1: pending um with a scientific investigation, so it could take
44:16
Speaker 1: another three weeks before we find out how he was
44:19
Speaker 1: actually killed, if we can find out, if we can
44:23
Speaker 1: determine that, because there's probably very little soft tissue, so
44:27
Speaker 1: it's gonna be difficult, I would think. And and here's
44:30
Speaker 1: the bottom line, Jessica Nol. He ain't going anywhere all right.
44:35
Speaker 1: The alleged purp, the friend air quote, air quote, Brad
44:40
Speaker 1: Clement is behind bars. He was apprehended walking across the
44:45
Speaker 1: public's grocery store parking lot and put down on his
44:48
Speaker 1: belly in the rain. I love that picture. And let
44:52
Speaker 1: me tell you something, Guys, looks are deceiving. I met
44:55
Speaker 1: with this guy in his hotel room and his flop
44:57
Speaker 1: house for hours hours. He could not have been more affable, likable,
45:03
Speaker 1: laid back. Of course, I couldn't help but notice that
45:07
Speaker 1: the moment I shut the door, he skipped, quit his
45:09
Speaker 1: job and skipped town. Was nowhere to be seen. When
45:11
Speaker 1: I brought up the idea of polygraph x nay on
45:14
Speaker 1: the polygraph anyway, it's very clear to me that he
45:18
Speaker 1: wanted no involvement in this, and he just couldn't get
45:21
Speaker 1: out of my talking to him because I was right
45:23
Speaker 1: there in his room. There was nowhere to go. So
45:27
Speaker 1: it was very likable and affable. But looks can be deceiving,
45:31
Speaker 1: which you agree with that, Jessica. No, looks can be
45:33
Speaker 1: deceiving for sure. I mean, you just never know um
45:37
Speaker 1: who you're sitting next to um anymore. As a matter
45:41
Speaker 1: of fact, let me take you right back to that
45:43
Speaker 1: moment when I was sitting on Brad Clement's unmade bed
45:47
Speaker 1: and he was spinning a yarn about what happened the
45:51
Speaker 1: day Chase Master went missing. Listen, he was cornered, he
45:55
Speaker 1: had nowhere to go, he couldn't get away from me. Listen,
45:58
Speaker 1: take me through what happened that when he goes missing.
46:01
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really not that much like it's like
46:04
Speaker 1: everybody says, I like, change my story and all this stuff,
46:07
Speaker 1: but it's like that was like what I did that day,
46:09
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that wasn't really anything to do
46:12
Speaker 1: with Chase. It was like you know, I ran a
46:13
Speaker 1: bunch of errings what I was doing, you know, most
46:16
Speaker 1: time when I was fixing up my house, like he
46:18
Speaker 1: was there that night and then you know, basically left
46:22
Speaker 1: sometime between when I was coming back from the store
46:27
Speaker 1: to when I started cooking, Like I mean, he had
46:30
Speaker 1: to act like I mean that that's the only logical thing.
46:33
Speaker 1: So we are waiting for the official cause of death.
46:36
Speaker 1: If we can get one, it may be earned undetermined
46:39
Speaker 1: by homicidal act. We'll see what the medical examiner will
46:44
Speaker 1: tell us. We are watching the case and bringing you
46:46
Speaker 1: the latest Team Chase. Thank you not just for being
46:51
Speaker 1: with us, there's four Team Team Chase members right now
46:54
Speaker 1: on the line with me. God bless you, everybody, Tammy
46:58
Speaker 1: Everyone Egan, Crime Online and Jessica Nol NBC eleven Alive
47:05
Speaker 1: searching for justice. Nancy Grace cried, the story is signing off.
47:09
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,