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Partner of Famous Stratton Oakmont: The Richard Bronson Story · Nightmare Success In and Out

0:01
What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
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Hi, I'm Brent Cassidy, welcome to the Nightmare Success In and
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Out podcast where we explore how to overcome your fears and
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nightmares that set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring, sometimes sad.
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There's some humor, and hopefully you can come away with
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a nugget of something that'll help you knock down some of the
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prisons you built up in your own mind.
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All right, welcome back, nightmare success.
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In-n-out listeners. This is where you come from.
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What happens when your words true becomes your reality.
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How do you adapt, survive, overcome?
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Set yourself free, folks, Don't forget to follow this show.
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Subscribe to it, share it, like it out.
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It really helps. I mean, it really does help.
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Really helps the show. So who are we talking to today?
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Well, I am very excited to be having.
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This person is my guest. It's Richard Bronson.
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You might have heard of the name.
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You might have heard of the name because if you go back, Richard
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was one of the partners at Stratton Oakmont.
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Anybody heard of Stratton Oakmont?
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Yeah. Stratton Oakmont.
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That 1 The Wolf of Wall Street, that that movie Stratton
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Oakmont. He was a partner there.
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And then after Stratton, he went and launched his own firm called
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Biltmore Securities, grew it up into 500 plus people, over $100
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million in business. And everything came crashing
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down about the same time that all the other stuff came
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crashing down with Jordan Belfort and all the rest of it.
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What I think I have been so fascinated with, with Richard
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Bronson and I, I love these type of stories is, is yes, they can
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take you down. The federal government can take
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you down, but they didn't take his brain.
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And and you know, when Richard got out of prison, he was more
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or less homeless. He could have just curled up and
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gone off into a corner and he didn't.
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He got involved with some re entry things that were very
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impactful. He got involved with Devi
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Ventures and then he started his own company.
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And that company was all about how do you get these people that
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have been previously incarcerated, formerly
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incarcerated in prison? How did he get him jobs?
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You know, there's 70 + 1,000,000 of them out there.
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And he called that company 70 million jobs.
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And he started going after he got funding.
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And he's, he's that type of guy. He just doesn't quit.
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Even when it looks like all the chips are down, he just keeps on
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going. I can't wait to unpack all this.
2:40
Before we do, I want to recognize our show sponsor, Auto
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Autoplazdirect telling Brent from nightmare success sent you
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Richard Bronson, welcome in. How are you?
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Great, Brent. Thanks for having me.
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So I was just saying we should have just recorded the 1st 10 or
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15 minutes here. We were talking, you were
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telling an incredible story about being in prison and, and
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there was a hurricane coming and they put you all on a bus.
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And when you went to the other prison, they said, wait, we
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weren't, we're not looking for 800 prisoners and they sent you
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over to Mississippi. I said we should have just
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recorded all that. Richard, you have lived quite as
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quite a journey of a story. I, I thought maybe what we
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should do is go back a little ways because I, you know,
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there's a lot of different things you can look up about
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you, but can you take us back a little bit to when you were
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growing up, your mom, dad, siblings, where you were before
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you became a guy in the investment world?
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Sure, I am from New York and I grew up on Long Island.
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I had a nice childhood. I went to school to study
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journalism, and that was my plan to, you know, work in publishing
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or something media related, work at a magazine or a newspaper.
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And when I got out of college, that's what I started out doing.
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But I quickly realized that there's no money in that.
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You know, in New York, in Manhattan, you know, money is.
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Everything. Is everything.
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And, you know, if you. I was interested in the pretty
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girls and that's an expensive proposition, Needless to say.
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So I had lots of friends who were working on Wall Street.
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And that was the era of, you know, greed is good.
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Yeah, so. The movie Wall Street.
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The movie Wall Street. So that made a lot of sense to
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me. So I got a job working on Wall
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Street and, and, and like the second week I was working there,
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you know, I was just trying to figure things out and Black
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Monday occurred. Oh wow, 1987, right?
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Yeah, exactly. And that's when you know, all of
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a sudden. This is your second week.
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Your second. Week and you know I what did I
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know I was just you know listening to all these experts
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pontificating on you know what was what we should be doing with
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our clients money and you know I was very impressed with all
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these smart people and I came in that you know and I didn't
6:07
really have too many clients if I had any and you know I was
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watching all these other people who were experienced and smart
6:16
presumably and the market just completely dropped like a Rock
6:22
You know jump ahead to you know the last week and you know we've
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kind of gotten used to that sort of thing happening but that you
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know hadn't happened before other than during the Great
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Depression. So it, it, it wasn't lost on me
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that all of these supposed, you know, experts and pundits who we
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were supposed to, you know, listen to like they, they were
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oracles. They didn't know anything.
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They didn't see it covered. They didn't have any idea and
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yet we were supposed to, you know, really base our businesses
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on following, you know, they're very good advice.
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And here we, you know, if you were to do that, you would have
7:12
clients who would be very angry at you.
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You'd lose their business. And it wasn't your fault, you
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know, it was someone else's advice that you adhered to.
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And it's sort of, you know, very at a very, very quickly, it may
7:26
be very cynical about that whole, about the whole business
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and. Which was probably a good thing,
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you know, that that time period, being that young and just
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getting into that. Wasn't that young, But yes, I
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was young in the business, yeah. And it very quickly I came to
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the conclusion that, all right, if I'm going to do this, the one
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thing I know I have to do is make sure, yes, I want to make
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sure I do my best to take care of my clients, but I also have
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to take care of myself because, you know, I'm going to, I'm
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working very, very hard and I don't want it to be destroyed in
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one day because I listened to somebody else.
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So that was always in the back of my mind.
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So in any event, I, you know, I work at a couple of different
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firms and I, you know, I was always a good salesperson.
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So that served me well. But at a certain point, I got
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tired of these big investment banking firms and I left the
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industry. And I was thinking about going
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back into publishing or journalism or whatever.
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And I ran into a friend of mine and who was in the business.
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And I, you know, he told me that he was working at this firm on
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Long Island and I, you know, a brokerage firm and I said Long
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Island, you know, I'm used to working at these fancy
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investment banking firms that people wear expensive suits.
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And it went to good colleges. And where the hell are you?
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And he goes, well, I'm making a lot of money.
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You should do it. I'll, I'll introduce you come
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tomorrow and check it out. And I go Long Island and, you
9:15
know, forget about, I'm not going to do that.
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And he goes, let me just show you something.
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And he pulled out a check from his wallet and it was like
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$100,000. And he goes, this is what I
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earned last month. And I was taken aback because he
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was a talented guy, but he wasn't that talented.
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And I said that this does this check clear.
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I was so incredulous. And he goes, yes.
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So I said yeah. Good question though.
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Good question. Yeah, I was highly suspicious.
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So I said, all right, it was worth at least me checking this
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out. So I met him and, you know, this
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company was based in this like, warehouse in a, in a like a
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industrial park. Yeah.
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And I get there and it's this huge open, you know, big space
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with row upon row of desks with mostly guys.
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And they're very young. And they were all standing up
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yelling into the phone, talking to clients.
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And they were not very sophisticated on the phone at
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all, certainly not what I was used to.
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And every once in a while they would slam down the phone and
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they would yell out like 100,000 shares, you know, that they had
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just made a sale and they would be giving high fives all around.
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And I, I knew that they had done something very, very well.
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But 100,000 shares, where I was from, that was a huge
10:48
transaction. That was an that was, you know,
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an institutional sale because we were selling New York Stock
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Exchange stocks that were 50, sixty, $70 a share.
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That was a huge transaction. Absolutely.
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And I didn't think these guys would were doing institutional
11:06
business. My friend said, I go, what are
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they, you know, I asked what are they selling?
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And they, he would tell me a name of a company that I'd never
11:14
heard of and it's a $3 stock or whatever.
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And he said the Commission is like $0.50 a share.
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So in other words, this guy just earned $50,000 on that one phone
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call. So I was pretty taken aback by
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it. So he goes, let me introduce you
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to the two guys who like owned the firm.
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So the first guy was a guy named Danny Porsche.
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And then the next guy was Jordan Belfort, who was played by
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Leonardo DiCaprio in the movie. And I met Danny actually was a
11:47
friend of my brother. I didn't realize at the time.
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And, and I met Jordan and you know, Jordan was like a real
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Long Island Queens guy, rough around the edges, but you know,
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he was obviously a smart guy who knew the markets, knew trading.
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And I figured, all right, you know, with what I knew, I
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figured if this guy could do that transaction, I could
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certainly do well, if not a lot better.
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So I said I'll give it a shot. And so I started working there
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and I did very well at 1st and my position there grew and
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eventually, you know, I became a partner there, which, you know,
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certainly grew my earnings potential.
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And after about a year or so, you know, they, the two of them
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came to me and this other guy who brought me in and said, Hey,
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would you guys like to own your own brokerage firm in Florida?
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And I was not married. I had no kids.
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So for me, you know, it was. Sounds good.
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Yeah, sounds good. My other, the other guy who
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became my partner, he had a wife and kids, so he had to give it a
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little thought, but he was game. So we went down to Florida,
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Southern Florida was Fort Lauderdale and we bought for
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very little money a a licensed firm.
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And part of the deal was that Stratton would help us, you
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know, get in business real quickly.
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And we would do deals together in an illicit fashion, you know,
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and we would participate in their IPOs, which would, based
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upon the manipulation that we were doing, would triple and
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quadruple on the day. And the the first time we did
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it, we became the firm in southern, southern Florida,
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excuse me. And we had brokers throughout
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Florida and elsewhere lining up in our door.
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They wanted to be in on it and they knew that we had an
14:11
association with Stratton and they knew that if they came to
14:14
work for us, they too could make an enormous amount of money.
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So in short order we had this big business making an enormous
14:24
amount of money and me and my partner became rich very
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quickly. Wow, yeah.
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And my life changed enormously. You know, I had a house on the
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beach next to Eric Clapton's house, and I became an art
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collector and fancy cars and I had a nightclub on South Beach
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and all of the other trappings I had.
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I was involved with women who were way out of my league.
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That happens. Yeah, and it and it was great.
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I mean, I knew, obviously I knew what I was doing.
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I was breaking the law and furthermore I knew the day would
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come that. So you knew that you you at that
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at that time, you knew that what you were doing was something
15:13
that was outside of OK and. I and, and what's more, I knew
15:19
that at at a certain point I would have to pay the price for
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it, which you. Know you were riding the wave of
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the Gray success, and did you think maybe it could last
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forever? No, I knew that I would have.
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I knew that one day the guys with the windbreakers with the
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letters on their back would come knocking on my door.
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Did you ever think at that time to get out, just say, OK, I got
15:46
enough, I'm going to put all my chips and put them all, but.
15:49
I but take it out. But when I made the decision to
15:53
get out, I also knew it was too late at that point because the
15:57
guys at Stratton were already in the midst of their own legal
16:04
problems. And I knew eventually that would
16:07
get sewn up and then they would come to us.
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So, Richard, were they shared? Like was Jordan sharing that
16:14
with you guys that hey, I've got like in the movie, in the book,
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I read the book like when I was at Leavenworth, It was kind of
16:19
strange. That's where I read that book.
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What? You were going to say when I was
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11. Not 11, but at Leavenworth.
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And, you know, I couldn't tell when either by the movie or the
16:32
book, how much everybody that was around Jordan knew how deep
16:37
it was going with this FBI guy that was really attached to him
16:42
that wanted him because it it didn't feel like that Jordan was
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too afraid of him. You know, it was like I'm almost
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like playing with him in in the sense.
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But as far as you guys were in the Stratos, you know, around
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it, were you aware of of how serious it was getting?
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Well, the way these things work, certainly as it relates to them
17:08
and us, it doesn't start with a federal indictment.
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It starts with first Civil, it starts with civil lawsuits.
17:25
You know, you're getting sued by a customer for unauthorized
17:29
trading or something like that. And the, and then, you know,
17:32
like the NASD is, you know, there's a complaint and then
17:40
there's a bunch of complaints and then the state, Indiana or
17:45
Michigan is filing some charges against you and then the SEC
17:50
files a civil action against you.
17:55
And then it, you know, the NESD will bring a case against you
18:03
where you can't, you can't do an IPO or one of the principles has
18:10
to sit out for a year. So it's very incremental, but it
18:16
is inexorable and inevitable where it's all heading.
18:21
And then you're getting press and, you know, and, you know
18:25
where it's going. And we employed a, you know, a
18:29
white collar, you know, criminal attorney.
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Ours was Ike Sorkin, who was Bernie Madoff's attorney, you
18:38
know, and he told us all along where this is going.
18:42
And we knew. And it was just a question of
18:45
time when it occurred. Did you ever think just to get
18:49
on your private plane and fly South?
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No, never, ever. Ever.
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And what's more, I mean, I was because.
18:59
Everything you just said, Richard, just gave me PTSD
19:02
because we went through a six year investigation and it was
19:05
incremental, started, started in the States and then we were in
19:09
25 States and then it just keeps going and then all of a sudden.
19:13
And it impedes your, your ability to do business.
19:16
So you know, little by little, you know there's less motive.
19:21
There's no reason isn't to be even in business because you
19:24
can't make the money and it, it sort of impedes your ability to,
19:28
to fight also. But from my point of view, and I
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can't speak for anybody else, but I, I really, and, and I do
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not for a second say this in any way that this mitigates my guilt
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because I, I don't, this is for me 30 years ago or whatever that
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I was doing all this shit, you know, but I felt guilty about
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what I was doing all along. And, you know, I, and the fact
20:04
that I knew it was wrong only makes me more culpable as far as
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I'm concerned. So, you know, I, I, I, I went
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through all of this. I I forget the point that I was
20:17
trying to make. But well, I I ask you the wild
20:21
question if you ever thought about just getting on your
20:23
place. I what my partner and I and did
20:29
prior to us being indicted, we paid everybody back, OK, which I
20:36
don't think too many people would do.
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I paid. We paid everybody back because
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it was. Every You made everybody whole.
20:43
Yes, it was. More enlightened self-interest.
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I think AI felt guilty about doing it, about taking their
20:51
money, and I thought maybe this will make me feel a little less
20:55
guilty and B knowing that the day will come that we'll have to
20:59
answer for all this, we figured, well, maybe this will mitigate.
21:05
Mitigate some of what you'll have to deal with.
21:07
Exactly. And at least we won't have
21:10
restitution to pay, which ended up being the case, the the the
21:15
judge said. I've never had a case like this
21:17
where there was a huge financial crime but there's no damages, so
21:22
that was at least good. No, I mean, it's like the
21:25
analogy of of of taking a big heist from a bank and then
21:29
giving all the money back to the bank and then they they.
21:31
Leaving the money as you're making your getaway or.
21:34
Something right, right, right. Exactly.
21:35
But but I did not people when I got out of prison, you mentioned
21:39
that I was homeless. Yeah, I was also destitute
21:42
because I I had I I was deeply in debt when I got out of
21:46
prison. The funny thing is, is when I
21:48
gave my elocution, you know when before you're being.
21:52
A statement you make in front of the judge.
21:54
Before they their sentence, the judge is sentencing you and they
21:58
give you the chance to talk, which is a waste of time because
22:01
the judge already made-up his mind.
22:03
But in any event, I said, judge, I just want you to know I had
22:07
the opportunity obviously to bury money or to hide it or
22:11
whatever. And I didn't do it.
22:14
As a matter of fact, whatever money I had, even money that
22:17
wasn't I'll gotten. I, you know, we pay back
22:22
everybody. And whatever I had left, I gave
22:24
away to charity. And that was true.
22:27
And the judge goes, yeah, but it wasn't your money to give away.
22:31
And that was when I knew I was sunk.
22:34
You know, he didn't give me any credit for doing that at all.
22:37
How how long, Richard, did you guys go through from the time
22:41
that you when you were talking about the.
22:46
Well, yeah, when when you when you went through all these
22:49
different hoops that you had to jump through and what you
22:52
explained how it all happens kind of like a House of.
22:56
Cards long protracted. Process.
22:57
How long was that process? Three years, three years.
23:03
It's a long time, Yeah, you know that you're, you have this sort
23:07
of plan, you're on the. And you knew that you were going
23:10
to plead the whole time. You, you never thought of it.
23:13
Yeah. You're fighting it for as long
23:15
as you can because you want to stay in business and there's
23:17
money to be made. But you know ultimately where
23:21
it's going. And it's just the question of
23:24
when you say uncle, right, You know?
23:26
But when the guys show up with badges and guns, you know.
23:30
What was that like? Where were you when that
23:32
happened? I, I had, I was in a new
23:35
business. It was some Internet marketing
23:37
company that I had started. I had left the securities
23:41
business. And honestly, and then, you
23:44
know, these two people show up at my office and they say, you
23:48
know, we'd like to talk to you. And, you know, I knew it was
23:52
going to happen someday. And the waiting is the worst
23:56
part of it. So on a certain level I was
23:59
relieved because the waiting is, you know.
24:03
It's the it's the fear of the unknown.
24:05
The fear of the unknown is always is always worse than
24:07
anything else. So on a certain level I was
24:11
relieved. And you know, and then that
24:17
that's, so that's a whole new chapter that you're going
24:20
through. Yeah, well, so when you went in
24:23
and and you pled guilty, you did your statement to the judge.
24:26
Did you have an idea of what you were looking at as far as time?
24:31
Yeah, I had an. I mean, you know, based upon,
24:36
you know what my. Because I was, I was looking at
24:39
probation to five years. That's that's what I knew when I
24:42
walked in that courtroom that day.
24:44
Yeah. I mean, I was hoping for
24:46
probation or real device release or, you know, home confinement.
24:52
But my lawyer didn't, you know, my lawyer was very familiar with
24:56
the judge and he said he's a tough guy.
24:59
Chances are you're not going to get that.
25:01
But he said you paid everybody back, you know, and, you know,
25:06
under those circumstances, you know, there's no damages really.
25:11
And you, you know, you went in there.
25:13
I, they gave me the chance. They gave my partner and me the
25:17
chance to cooperate and like wear a wire and bring cases
25:23
against other people. My partner accepted that deal.
25:27
I don't blame him. I mean, he, I mean, he had kids
25:30
and a wife. I did not accept that.
25:34
I said, listen, I'll tell you about me, but I'm not going to
25:37
tell you about other people. I, I already feel guilty enough.
25:40
I don't want to ruin other people's lives.
25:43
And, and actually, I felt like the US attorney actually
25:48
respected that because nobody does that.
25:51
Right. You know, mostly people you
25:54
know, and I don't blame them. They want to save their own skin
25:56
and avoid going to prison. But I figured, listen, we paid
26:01
every. I paid everybody back.
26:02
How big was that number? It's a ridiculously inflated
26:06
number, as you know, because because they look at the money
26:10
and if it was wired from here to here and then here to here,
26:14
they, you, they add them all up. They love the big number because
26:18
it makes big it. Makes them look like they
26:20
brought, you know, down, you know, the, you know, Al Capone,
26:26
you know, But so it's, it's, it's an irrelevant number, but
26:30
it's a big, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars.
26:35
But I, I didn't think, I figured it'll be a, it'll be a couple of
26:40
years or three years. It's going to, I'm going to be
26:42
ending up at a minimum security place.
26:45
I don't have a wife or a kid, you know, whatever.
26:49
And, and in a certain way, again, I felt like I deserve to
26:53
be punished. And maybe by being I mean it.
26:56
It's sick, but I needed to be punished honestly.
27:01
So the judge comes down with the your sentencing and was it I'm
27:10
assuming you didn't get immediately remanded.
27:12
No, Yeah, no. And you know, something, I, I
27:18
didn't want to be taken away right then and there.
27:21
But you know, normally in a situation like that, it takes a
27:25
while. You know, it's, it's a year,
27:27
it's two year, whatever. I advise people when they ask me
27:31
because a lot of people, you know, are referred to me or you
27:36
know, they ask me, you know, tell them, walk me through this.
27:39
Yeah, Tell. Me about I tell them go as
27:42
quickly as you can because the time that you're sentenced to
27:47
the time that you actually self report, that's the worst time of
27:51
the whole. Boy, it is, isn't it, Richard?
27:53
Because it's just like no man's land, you know, I, I remember
27:56
when it happened to me, it was in the middle of November.
28:00
And so I had to, I, I reported on January 14th, 2014.
28:04
And that time period of Thanksgiving and Christmas, I
28:07
was like dead man walking. Yeah, I I just wanted to get
28:10
started so I could end it. Yeah, and get the clock tick.
28:13
Well, yours wasn't that that that long.
28:15
Mine was like over a year. Oh gosh, you waited a whole year
28:20
while you before you went into prison?
28:23
Yep. Oh my gosh.
28:24
Richard, you know, I'm single, so I can't get involved in a
28:30
relationship because, you know, I have to tell that person.
28:35
And then, you know, and who the hell wants to go out with a
28:38
convicted felon who's going to be reporting to prison and you
28:43
can't be in go to get involved with business deals like that.
28:47
It's, you know. But the only way that works is
28:50
that show love after lockup that that's you could you could be in
28:53
that series if you if you did that.
28:55
Yeah, it's, it's, it's really, you know, no man's land, like.
29:00
No man's land. Just total no man's land.
29:03
So you're totally incarcerated, except you're just outside of
29:08
the bars. But so I say get in there and
29:11
get the clock ticking. Yeah, you know, cuz you're cuz
29:14
you're already, you know, in terrible shape.
29:17
So. Well, let's yeah, let's talk
29:20
about cuz I walking into a place like that.
29:24
When you finally do walk into a place like, well, let's let's
29:26
take a break here cuz I want to, I want to get into all that.
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30:39
Start here. So, Richard, you finally wait
30:42
your year out and you voluntarily surrender.
30:46
Where? At the prison that I was
30:52
remanded to, which was in Florida, it's right by the Eglin
30:59
Air Force Base, which was, by the way, the white Collar
31:04
Support group. Yes.
31:07
I from time to time. You and I have been on there
31:11
together. Exactly, I've I I have attended
31:14
there the gentleman who organize and runs.
31:18
It is terrific. Yeah.
31:20
And it it is a great, great thing to do if you're going
31:28
through this, and I recommend it highly.
31:30
Well, Jeff Grant will appreciate that because.
31:33
He's a great guy with a big heart and he's very smart.
31:37
He's an attorney. It's well worth checking out.
31:40
So I'm sorry but I had to give it.
31:42
Up I appreciate that Richard and both of you and I, you know,
31:45
that's we I think I reached out to you because you were on on
31:49
one night that you know, Richard's need to talk to him.
31:52
There's a lot of good people, but anyway.
31:53
There is a lot of good people so.
31:55
So that was the original club fed because it was it was a good
32:00
place that if you have to go to prison, I'll I'll put it that
32:02
way. But in any event, it it was
32:05
surreal showing up there because it is.
32:10
There's a gate, you know, and it's a big gate that you have to
32:15
push a buzz buzzer. And somebody answers, you know,
32:19
like it's you're coming to someone's home and you're
32:22
pushing a buzzer. And there's an intercom and they
32:24
go, yes, can I help you? And I go, yeah, I'm here for the
32:30
prison. Yeah, it's something like that.
32:33
And they buzz it so it opens. And it was very literally that
32:41
I'm here and I'm free, but if I take this one step, I'm walking
32:46
into prison. Right.
32:48
If I go back, I'm not in prison, but if I take another step, I'm
32:52
in prison. Yeah, it was sort of that binary
32:55
that one step was. So it's huge.
33:00
I'm in prison. Richard, I, so I, I so identify
33:04
with everything you just said because, you know, I knew that
33:07
my wife and my mom and my brother were behind in the car,
33:10
right? It was freezing cold outside.
33:12
I was in Kansas. So I was just, and I knew
33:14
everything. I knew everything I loved was
33:16
behind me. And what I was stepping when
33:18
they opened that gate was the vast unknown, the world I'd
33:22
never thought I was going to step into.
33:24
And I'm stepping into it. I'd have no choice.
33:27
Yeah, it's wild. It's amazing.
33:28
And you had a longer sentence than I did, but still, it's like
33:34
here, I'm free there. I'm walking in here.
33:37
I'm going to be here for a few years.
33:38
Yeah, free. I take one step, you know, and,
33:43
and there's a part that says I'm not taking this step, am I?
33:46
Crazy. Not voluntarily.
33:49
I'm not going to do that. So any event, I walked in there
33:52
and it was like I was the first person that ever entered this
33:56
prison. They were so ill prepared.
34:00
You know, I go, don't you do this all the time?
34:03
Like I'm not the first person to be incarcerated here, am I?
34:07
They were so disorganized, like nobody.
34:11
It was like, you know, figure it out on your own, sort of.
34:15
But you know, of course, you know, you have, you know, it's
34:21
prison and, you know, you've watched all these movies, you
34:24
know, and you're fearful and am I going to be raped the first
34:29
minute I'm there and there's a gang going to turn me out?
34:33
And who the hell knows? But I was at this very low
34:38
security, you know, it turned out that I was safer there, you
34:43
know, than walking down the street, you know, in New York or
34:48
Miami, where I live, is much safer there because in a low
34:53
security place, everybody knows that if you get in trouble,
34:57
they're going to send you to a bad place and that you don't
35:02
want to do so. Everybody knows that you know,
35:04
within 5 minutes of being in a in a prison at a low security
35:08
place, you know that do not screw up because there are bad
35:14
places so. And they talk about it.
35:17
Yeah, they talk about it and, and you talk to anybody there,
35:21
you know, that's the places that you were afraid of.
35:25
So as a result, nobody, there's no fights, there's no nothing.
35:31
You know, and you could, you could yell and scream at a guy
35:36
who's twice as big as you and scary looking and whatever and
35:41
they will do nothing. You know, you could, you could
35:45
be so macho to a you know, you could be a little tiny guy on
35:49
the outside, you know, you would be cowering with anybody.
35:54
But here you could be the tough guy and nothing there'll be no
35:58
replica. Well, I, I, I will say that
36:00
there was in some of these, I mean, because it's a primitive
36:03
environment. So it's, it's a very, but there
36:06
we had a guy that was, he was a, he was an attorney, very
36:13
demeaning to people and, and he had a good job and he had
36:20
snitched on one of the guys. And this guy was the one guy
36:23
that he probably shouldn't have snitched on because he had
36:25
worked his way down into the camp.
36:28
And one night he came in to the attorney and just pulled him,
36:33
jacked him and he had a ring on it split his, his, his his upper
36:38
lip. He went to the bubble where the
36:41
the officer was. And that guy left and he went,
36:45
like you said, Richard away to and they tell everybody you know
36:49
he's going. They actually sent him to a
36:51
medium because he had worked his way down.
36:53
So they bumped him all the way back up.
36:55
So there are times when somebody is so like.
36:59
Right. Bad that they do get jacked and
37:01
that person does leave and they do go to, you know, a bad place.
37:04
So you're right, if somebody does something bad, they go up
37:07
and it's not good. But I bet in a higher security
37:10
thing he would have been killed. Oh, for sure, absolutely.
37:14
So maybe, maybe. All he got was a busted lip and
37:17
he didn't say anything. After that.
37:19
He got real quiet, right? Yeah.
37:22
But you know, you go in there and they, you know, they search
37:27
you thoroughly, which is, I mean.
37:31
How much time did you get? I got 22 months. 22 months.
37:36
Right. Which what you said, you know,
37:38
you're, when you walk in there, Richard, it's not like you're
37:41
going to be there for a week or a month.
37:43
It's, you know, it's, it's, you're going to be there for a
37:45
while and you have to figure out how you're going to live there.
37:48
Yes, yes. So I got, I got 22 months, you
37:52
know, and they you get a cursory medical exam and they ask you
37:56
about any medic. It's funny, I, I'm not a great
38:00
sleeper. So with, with the no, you know,
38:04
with, with my incarceration looming, it made my sleeping all
38:12
the more difficult. So I was taking Ambien and, and
38:20
of course, you know, you take Ambien, you get addicted to it
38:22
very easily. So when I tell them about my
38:25
medication, I tell them about my taking Ambien and I go, okay,
38:32
you know, so they give me whatever I'm taking.
38:35
But when it comes to the, we don't give the Ambien, it's
38:38
like, oh, how am I supposed to fall asleep?
38:40
I go, they go, well, that's your problem.
38:42
And I'm thinking so when they lead me to, you know, there's
38:46
like different dorms in the federal thing and there are
38:50
double Decker bunks and they bring me the dorm manager brings
38:56
me to mine, which is right button right next to the
38:58
bathroom with a lights are on. They call that Lakefront,
39:05
Lakefront territory. What are they called?
39:07
Something late? It's like a funny name.
39:10
And there's people constantly, you know, through the night
39:13
going in and out and flushing and talking and whatever.
39:17
And I'm thinking there's no way I'm ever going to fall asleep.
39:21
But The funny thing is, is eventually you fall asleep.
39:25
And as soon as I realized that I was not in any danger, and
39:33
eventually I, because I no longer had anything to worry
39:38
about because I didn't have, you know, I wasn't feeling guilty
39:43
because I'm around people who are all guilty already.
39:46
So no one's judging me. I don't have to worry about
39:49
money. I'm not getting lawyer phone
39:51
calls. I I was a high profile person in
39:55
Miami so there's no newspaper articles or anything.
39:59
So I'm finally relaxing for the first time in years.
40:03
Not only am I sleeping well without a Ambien, but I'm taking
40:07
naps, which in my life I've never taken a nap.
40:11
It was the most relaxing I've ever been in my life in prison.
40:17
So. It's unbelievable, this.
40:20
Thing is not so bad. But you've got to, you've got to
40:23
share with, with the audience your story about the hurricane
40:28
because. I've.
40:29
Not. I've not heard anybody talk
40:31
about something like this before.
40:33
It was funny because I want to make, before we preface this
40:36
story, the worst thing to do while you're in prison is to
40:39
travel. It's not something anybody wants
40:42
to do. So just to set that up.
40:45
Yeah. You guys in the middle of
40:46
whatever they're just say we're all out of here.
40:49
Grab your pillow. OK, well, first of all, yes,
40:53
first of all, what people when, when I had my company, 70
40:58
million Jobs, which you introed, it was a employment platform for
41:01
people with records. And and at the time I did a
41:05
podcast with a couple of guys who who work with me and it was
41:10
all about, you know, people who unlike you, obviously all
41:16
podcasts that are prison related are always very sad and intense,
41:23
you know, and you know, when in fact, there's a lot of funny
41:29
things that happen in prison. There are a lot of funny people
41:33
and there's a lot of laughing. Nicknames.
41:36
There's a lot of laughing that goes on and there are a lot of
41:39
really clever people that are there and nobody talks about
41:44
that ever. And there's funny things with
41:47
how the cooking that gets done and creative things.
41:50
And that's what we did in our podcast and it was great.
41:54
But in any event, one of the funny things that happened was,
41:59
you know, it's just during the day and it's a lazy day, you
42:04
know, in, in at Eglin and all of a sudden there's an
42:08
announcement, you know, on the PA system and it says grab your
42:13
pillows immediately. And everyone's like looking at
42:16
each other. Like, what does that mean?
42:19
Grab your pillows? Have I heard of that?
42:21
Everyone's like looking. And we're all asking like the
42:24
guards who are standing around because that's what they do.
42:28
What does that mean? Grip?
42:29
Just grab your pillows. So, OK, so everyone grabs their
42:34
pillows and they're out in the yard with their pillows and, and
42:40
everyone and then they say proceed to like the parking area
42:44
or whatever it was called. And we all go to the parking
42:47
area with our pillows and they advise us that we're going to be
42:51
loaded onto the buses. There's all of a sudden like 20
42:55
yellow school buses and we all go to the school buses and
43:00
there's all these guards and they all have the, what are they
43:05
called, shackles. Yeah, shackles.
43:08
That's not good, right? That's.
43:10
Very dehumanizing. At, at, you know, at a, at the
43:15
low security that we're at. They don't use shackles then,
43:18
and they almost never see handcuffs or anything like that.
43:21
They only use those when they're transporting you out, when
43:25
someone gets into trouble and they're sending you to the
43:27
county jail, you know, But we didn't see that, you know,
43:32
wasn't that sort of place. So they're putting us onto the
43:36
bus and they're putting the shackles and they're handcuffing
43:39
us to another guy. So they're really taking this
43:43
sort of seriously. And very seriously.
43:45
Freaking out. And we had like lawyers I was
43:49
friendly with there. There were a lot of, you know.
43:52
Like collar guys, Yeah. That yeah.
43:55
And they're all freaking. They go, this is not right.
43:57
Like I pled and it was not to be going through this.
44:01
I pled for a minimum. And they're all complaining.
44:04
I'm calling my my lawyer, my congressman, and you're going to
44:07
hear about this. And everyone's like freaking
44:10
out. And they put us into the bus and
44:13
we're driving like four or five hours and we don't know.
44:17
They haven't told us a thing like what's going on and where
44:21
are we going? And everyone's saying my wife is
44:23
not going to know where I am. And you know, you're not giving
44:26
us a chance to make a phone call.
44:28
And what happens if the bus, there's an accident, you know,
44:31
whatever. And we end up pulling up and
44:36
then we see a sign. I think it was Alabama we ended
44:39
up in and there's a, you know, and we end up pulling up in the
44:42
middle of nowhere because that's where prisons are.
44:45
They're in the middle of nowhere.
44:46
Because there's like a, they need like a huge amount of land
44:50
around the prison. So we pull up in front of this
44:53
big, big, big prison, which has big gates around it.
44:59
And we pull up in front of it and, you know, a few of the
45:03
guards get out and they go up to the gate and they push a buzzer
45:07
like they're calling on someone's home.
45:11
And, and you can see them talking.
45:14
We don't hear it, of course. And it's going back and forth.
45:19
And then they just come back and they're talking among, you know,
45:24
each other. And then the buses take off.
45:27
And we have no idea what just happened after this, like four
45:30
or five. But eventually the word spreads.
45:34
It turns out we were going to be relocated to this other prison,
45:40
but unfortunately our prison hadn't spoken to this other
45:45
prison and this other prison didn't have room for us.
45:49
It just sounds so much like the. BOP, right.
45:51
And like you said, Brett, the travel in, in, you know, at
45:56
least the BOP, you know, you, you've, you know, they have
46:00
what's called Con Air and that is when they're transporting
46:04
prisoners from one location to another.
46:08
You would think it's a plane ride.
46:10
You know, even if you have to go from the East Coast to the West
46:13
Coast, what is that 5-6 hours? But it's never just directly.
46:18
It's 12 connecting flights and you have to sleep over 4
46:24
different places and it could take you 3 weeks to get from one
46:28
destination to another. It's incredibly the and they
46:32
they. Don't care, it just doesn't
46:34
they. Don't care at all and they don't
46:35
tell you and you have no. Idea.
46:37
You never know you. Have no idea where you are or
46:39
what's going on. So this was sort of like that.
46:42
So we end up getting back in the bus and apparently they found a
46:46
new location located in Yazoo City, Ms. which I had never
46:53
heard of before. Have you ever heard of that,
46:55
Brent? Until you mentioned it today.
46:57
No, I haven't. I haven't had spent that much
46:59
time in Mississippi to begin with, but certainly not much in
47:03
Yazoo City. And Yazoo City had like a number
47:06
of different prisons, but they had one part of the prison that
47:11
they hadn't opened, apparently, that had plenty of room for us.
47:15
And that was like a serious prison because it was like
47:18
cells, you know, with two bunks. And it had that, you know,
47:25
stainless steel toilet sink kind of thing with no toilet seat,
47:33
you know, So that was like an adult, you know, real prison.
47:39
And of course, everyone was freaking out about that and
47:42
complaining. And, you know, they had phones
47:46
that were available. So everyone was calling their
47:48
attorneys and their senators and whatever the hell they do could
47:51
do to complain. Of course, I don't think that
47:55
offered much relief. But after several weeks, they
47:58
brought us to another low security thing somewhere, I
48:02
don't recall where. And then you know things.
48:05
Were you released from that place?
48:07
Eventually, yes. OK, so you, you spent a certain
48:10
amount of weeks in Mississippi. Yeah.
48:12
And they, they loaded you guys all up again and you ended up
48:16
and that's where you were eventually released.
48:17
From yeah in Alabama if I'm not in.
48:19
Alabama. Yeah.
48:21
So what a story. I mean, it was all crazy.
48:26
That's. Just crazy.
48:26
But it was, you know, it was honestly, if there were women
48:31
there, it, it would have been a very relaxing long vacation was
48:37
the way I looked at it. It was, the weather was good,
48:42
you know, I had a chance to lay out in the sun every day.
48:46
I worked out every day. I've never been in such good
48:48
shape. I made a lot of good friends,
48:53
you know, and I read a lot. I, I play the guitar.
48:57
I, I practice guitar every day. I was in these bands.
49:01
That was fun. You know, it was boring at
49:04
times, but for what? Where I was?
49:08
It's not like that at other level, you know, securities, I
49:11
recognize that, but where I was. Was so bad.
49:16
It wasn't that bad. So what what were you thinking,
49:20
Richard, as far as because you had a whole year to think about
49:23
going in, Yes, when it started getting close to you thinking
49:27
I'm getting out. That was bad.
49:30
What tell us about that? Yeah, that was.
49:33
Yeah, that was bad. I mean, I mean, again, it wasn't
49:37
as bad if if I had been in a higher security and I had a
49:41
couple of, you know, the I, I fully reckon I'm making a joke
49:44
about this and I really shouldn't because for most
49:49
people their experience, you know, it is full of violence and
49:56
it's very, very challenging, etcetera, etcetera.
49:59
And I'm just trying to, you know, on purpose, offer a
50:05
alternative experience. And for me, it was good in the
50:11
sense that I gained a lesson in humility because when I was on
50:18
top, making a lot of money, I was a big shot.
50:22
I had a lot of power. People looked up to me, and I
50:26
was an asshole. And you know, there's no excuse
50:31
for that. And going away to prison helped
50:35
me. Very humbling.
50:37
Probably the most humbling experience you can have is heavy
50:39
freedom taken away from. Me.
50:40
Yeah. I mean, you know, mentioned, you
50:43
know, there's something about having to scrub 100 toilets
50:47
every day. You know that if you if you
50:51
don't gain a lesson in humility at least a little bit from that,
50:54
you know you're a lost cause. Well, I think the other thing
50:57
too, I, I totally agree with you on that.
50:59
And I think the other thing that happens, you know, hopefully
51:03
people don't have to get down to this particular level.
51:06
But, you know, when you do just get down to a plastic chair and
51:09
a bunk bed and a locker, you kind of figure it out and you
51:15
learn something about yourself that you can pretty much adapt
51:18
to anything, almost anything. Yeah.
51:21
So that's a weird thing that happens that you come away with
51:24
total humility. I mean, absolutely.
51:27
I mean, there's getting shackled is the most, you know,
51:29
dehumanizing thing that ever happened to me.
51:32
And that happened in the mid part of my sentence.
51:34
I had to go back to a civil trial that had been stayed while
51:37
our criminal trial. So I had to be brought back to
51:39
Saint Louis and never been handcuffed and shackled.
51:43
And so it was it was a whole new experience.
51:46
You know, when I when they brought me back to Leavenworth,
51:48
you know, the what rifles were drawn and I got out the all that
51:51
stuff. So yeah.
51:54
Yes. OK, so you you finally get your
51:57
date. You finally say this is when
51:59
you're going to go. What are you thinking is going
52:02
to happen when you get out into society?
52:04
What's What's going on in your mind?
52:06
For the for the remaining two or three months prior to my
52:12
release, I, you know, I became very anxious because I knew full
52:24
well I, I had a bunch of very close friends.
52:30
A lot of them were my friends through my business that
52:37
completely deserted me. You know, they, I'm sure they
52:44
were afraid of being sort of, you know, impacted by my, you
52:56
know, or getting, I was radioactive.
52:59
Oh, yeah, no. I mean, you are radioactive.
53:02
It scares people to death. And people can get drawn in.
53:05
You know, it's not like it. It's not like it's a paranoia
53:08
thing. Actually.
53:08
People can get drawn in and they're scared to death of that.
53:11
And the FBI has the power to bring people in and tell them
53:14
they're going to do this to them, or if they don't, they'll
53:16
get this. So yeah, absolutely.
53:19
You know, I, I don't think that, you know, I had the opportunity
53:25
to make trouble for them when, you know, I was first indicted
53:31
and encouraged to do that and I didn't do it.
53:34
And they knew that. And I had very much been there
53:38
for a lot of people financially and in other ways because some
53:42
of them had their own problems. And I was there for them.
53:48
And it was for me a very, very difficult thing to take friends,
53:54
you know, and have them, you know, run the other way.
53:59
And I lost a bunch of people. So that was, you know, very
54:03
regrettable for me. So I knew that, you know, people
54:08
I had lent money to. And here I was, like you
54:10
mentioned, destitute. And I couldn't turn to them and
54:14
say, and they had money, you know, and they just disappeared.
54:19
So I had, you know, and, and, and also coming out, I didn't
54:27
know who I was at that point. Am IA big shot still.
54:31
And I don't mean just like a big shot ego wise.
54:34
Am IA talented sort of guy. Am IA good businessman or?
54:38
Can I make a difference? Can I still make a difference?
54:40
Can I still make an impact? Right.
54:42
Or is my success purely on the basis of my doing illegal
54:46
things? You know, I, I, my confidence
54:49
was, you know, very iffy. And should I be come out and
54:56
just sort of start at the very bottom and then work my way up,
55:00
hopefully, or am IA home run hitter and, you know, go for it.
55:06
So I didn't really know where I belonged or what, you know, how
55:11
I should be approaching this. But I I certainly knew that I
55:15
was deeply in debt the moment I walked outside of prison.
55:19
And no one's going to feed me and no one's going to give me
55:21
the medicine I need. And my friends who, you know,
55:27
could have helped me, you know, had run for the hills.
55:31
What? I was very, very lucky.
55:33
Thank God I have a sister. My, my brother was in my corner,
55:36
but my sister had the financial means.
55:40
She had an apartment with two bedrooms.
55:43
You know, she was just incredibly supportive and
55:47
generous and with, I can't imagine without her how I, you
55:53
know, could have survived and. Did either one of your siblings
55:57
get involved with your business or they were always on the
56:00
outside? No, they wouldn't.
56:01
In no way involved with anything.
56:03
Yeah. So yeah.
56:07
But I was in a in a panic of having no idea what I could do.
56:12
Yeah, and I think that's a big point to point out too, because
56:16
what you just said there is, is common.
56:19
I I think, Oh yeah, in prison, when people get that and they
56:25
start getting that feeling like, Oh my gosh, I'm jumping back out
56:28
into society. I was somebody said it's like
56:30
jumping into a movie car. It's it kind of feels that way.
56:32
Everything's gone on and you're jumping back into society.
56:36
You're trying to catch up, but you, your confidence level is
56:40
down. You don't feel the same.
56:44
And so you have to figure that you, you have like this
56:46
different feeling and it's like sensory overload.
56:49
Everything's coming at you all at once.
56:51
Yeah, I that, that wasn't troubling for me.
56:55
You know, maybe if I had been in prison longer.
56:58
You know, there's this cliche, you know, and this trope that
57:03
people in prison, they want to be in prison.
57:08
You know, like they get out and, you know, they recidivate
57:12
because they want to be back in prison.
57:14
It's the only play they need to be there or something like that.
57:19
And you know, and I know that that's not true.
57:24
And I've worked in re entry for 15 years and I'm, I've worked on
57:28
the front lines of people, you know, trying to get a job, not
57:32
getting a job, going back to prison.
57:34
They don't want to go back to prison.
57:35
Nobody wants to go back to prison, you know, That's just
57:38
some ridiculous, you know, theory that people just sort of
57:43
found convenient to cook up. I totally agree with you on that
57:48
and it's a lot of what you just talked about.
57:50
It's all the barriers that were unexpected that they continue to
57:54
run into that they didn't know they were going to run into
57:57
because they thought they had done their time.
57:59
And almost like you should have gotten a receipt when you walked
58:01
out so you could go back into society.
58:03
And that's not what that's not what it is.
58:05
It's a long life thing you have to wear around your neck.
58:09
Yeah, until the end. It's a life sentence.
58:11
But I'm curious though, Richard, when you said you got out, your
58:14
sister helped you, were you thinking because you, like you
58:19
did some? Really stepped into some really
58:22
big things with how you stepped into the re entry world.
58:25
Were you thinking about that, or was that something just started
58:27
coming to you? No, I, what I did was when I got
58:35
out, I tried to hit a home run. And by that I mean I, I tried to
58:40
get, you know, an important executive job.
58:45
I couldn't be in the securities industry anymore because I'm
58:47
banned for life from that. But I tried to do other things.
58:53
And, you know, and I also was very forthcoming about my record
58:58
because with the Internet, you can't hide anything ultimately.
59:02
So, you know, I figured control the narrative, be forthcoming
59:08
and you know, and sell myself that you know that if you hire
59:13
me, you're buying distressed, A distressed asset and you're
59:17
buying me on the cheap that you never would have been able.
59:20
To get the felon discount. Yes, so, you know, be smart.
59:26
So. But that didn't work.
59:28
So I thought, what could I do that not only would my criminal
59:34
background, my record, not only not impede my job, hold job
59:42
seeking capability, but actually could be a positive?
59:49
What could I do that my background would actually
59:54
improve my chances of getting a job?
59:56
And I thought about it and I said I don't know work in.
1:00:02
The re entry space work maybe for a nonprofit that does re
1:00:07
entry work because God knows there are a lot of them.
1:00:10
And what I bring to the table that these re entry nonprofits
1:00:15
don't really have is I have a lot of experience as a business
1:00:20
person, right? And all these re entry
1:00:23
organizations, they only have nonprofit people working there,
1:00:27
right? And you know, and as far as I'm
1:00:31
concerned, that's a weakness in their organizations.
1:00:35
For example, with fundraising, they have all these
1:00:38
well-intentioned people, their employees, many of them go to
1:00:43
school, you know, for political science or for, you know,
1:00:48
something, you know, that's, you know, sounds good, but you know,
1:00:55
it's lacking, you know, something and that I could bring
1:01:00
to the table. And I thought maybe that'll
1:01:03
work. And I started looking for, and
1:01:06
it turned out that my lived experience that actually was
1:01:11
very attractive to a bunch of them and I was able to get in
1:01:15
the front door, which is all I needed to do.
1:01:18
And I have, like you, we have the ability to sell ourselves in
1:01:24
a way that their typical people don't have.
1:01:27
That's just not their strength. They have other strengths and
1:01:30
certainly they have passion, but I have passion too because I
1:01:34
felt, you know, going away to prison, living with all these
1:01:37
guys, you know, I, you get, you become friendly with them and
1:01:42
you care about them and you realize they have no shot at all
1:01:45
of leading a, you know, and having a safe and productive
1:01:49
life. Because if I couldn't have one
1:01:52
with my good college education and all my high level experience
1:01:57
and success, what chance would they have?
1:02:00
And the answer, as I learned, the chances are very, very, very
1:02:04
slim. So I was able to get into
1:02:08
working at a couple of different nonprofits where I learnt a lot
1:02:11
about the whole space. And I also saw the weaknesses
1:02:15
and what, in my opinion, they were doing wrong or they weren't
1:02:18
doing at all. And I came up with this idea.
1:02:21
First of all, I realized that, you know, recidivism, you know,
1:02:27
breaking the law again and being sent back to prison.
1:02:30
The incidence of recidivism is staggeringly high, and it all
1:02:36
has to do with their inability to get a job.
1:02:40
If you're released from prison, 70 some odd percent.
1:02:44
Unless they get a job, they're going to be sent back to prison
1:02:47
in the first year of their release.
1:02:50
Like 77% are going to go back within a year if they don't get
1:02:54
a job. If they get a job, 80 some odd
1:02:58
percent will live happily ever after.
1:03:01
It's that binary. It's that clear cut.
1:03:04
So employment is the silver bullet.
1:03:07
That's the answer. OK.
1:03:09
The problem is is that employers typically don't want to hire
1:03:14
people with a record. And The funny thing is, is that
1:03:17
statistically, people with records actually do.
1:03:21
Very well, employment. Job Yes, that's happens to be
1:03:25
the truth. That's what employers will
1:03:28
admit. You know, when, when they're
1:03:31
polled, but they still have, you know, there's racism, there's
1:03:35
prejudices, there's all kinds of reasons.
1:03:39
So I came up with this idea and a way of doing this and I was
1:03:46
able to, I put together a whole business plan, whatever.
1:03:50
I was able to raise venture capital money.
1:03:54
I raised several $1,000,000 to start this business.
1:03:58
I did it as a for profit thing, so I did.
1:04:00
Which I, I don't want to gloss over this, Richard, because I
1:04:03
think it's absolutely fascinating, the things that you
1:04:07
just said because you saw a problem, you worked in some re
1:04:11
entry spaces. Nonprofits.
1:04:13
Nonprofits. But then you just did it.
1:04:17
You went and put together a business plan and then you got
1:04:20
with one of the most sought after places to go get money and
1:04:25
they liked you. Yes, yeah.
1:04:28
I mean, I, I don't mention it because I don't know how how
1:04:31
resonant this will be with you. Roy.
1:04:33
There is a there is a what it's called an accelerator program
1:04:39
called Y Combinator where the some of the best tech companies
1:04:46
like DoorDash. And.
1:04:49
Airbnb and Reddit and a whole bunch of others, they have gone
1:04:55
through it and this accelerator, they invest in your company.
1:05:00
It at the time I went through it, Sam Altman, who now is like
1:05:05
the master of the universe with AI, He was the president and he
1:05:10
heard about what I was doing. So, you know, he came forward
1:05:15
and he said we want to invest and we want you to go through
1:05:19
the program. So I knew nothing about tech at
1:05:22
all. Literally.
1:05:23
But this is like the shark tanks of shark tanks of what it is.
1:05:26
It is. It's an amazing organization and
1:05:29
I learnt so much and you know, it just opened up so many doors
1:05:34
so I was able to raise the money.
1:05:36
What did you think? I, I, I just, I, I don't.
1:05:39
I'm not wanting to get off this yet, Richard, because I just
1:05:41
think you, you had been destitute, you had been living
1:05:45
in and and then you put this thing together and you go and
1:05:48
you present and you've got millions of dollars of this that
1:05:52
people are wanting to invest in 70 million jobs.
1:05:56
What was going through your mind that night when you went back to
1:05:59
bed? You know something I I'm trying
1:06:05
to think of how to answer that without sounding like an
1:06:08
asshole. Honestly, you know.
1:06:14
It had to give your confidence back, right?
1:06:16
I mean, what? What was it then?
1:06:18
What? What?
1:06:19
How did you feel? My life here's just, I'm going
1:06:23
to end up being a sounding like an asshole if I haven't already.
1:06:26
It's just like my life has just been a series of just crazy
1:06:31
things. Yeah.
1:06:33
And I just sort of, if I respond or if I react to, to all of
1:06:39
these different things, I just think I would explode sort of,
1:06:43
you know, and I just sort of just these things happen.
1:06:48
I, I, I, my approach to life has always been, you know, because
1:06:53
I'm an asshole. I just sort of, I just swing for
1:06:56
the seats. I just try to.
1:06:58
Do that's what I was trying to get to.
1:07:00
That's that's why I wanted you to land.
1:07:02
I figure you know what's. Just do it.
1:07:05
You're. Yeah.
1:07:06
The secret formula. What I wanted you to get to is,
1:07:09
is that you did it. A lot of people think about what
1:07:12
you thought about. A lot of people think, you know,
1:07:15
I had to do something with my experience.
1:07:17
You know, I don't. I can't get this executive job
1:07:20
over here. But wait, look, I've got all
1:07:22
this lived experience now. I'm a business guy.
1:07:25
Why don't I put a business plan together and try to make
1:07:27
something happen and you did it. That's the thing that I think
1:07:31
is, is I want everybody who's listening.
1:07:34
You did it. You went out and you did.
1:07:35
You didn't know you were swinging for the fences.
1:07:37
But if you hadn't have put that business plan together, and if
1:07:40
Sam Altman hadn't have contacted you and you hadn't have gone to
1:07:42
the deal and you hadn't have presented, none of that would
1:07:45
have happened. It's true, yeah.
1:07:48
I figure you know what? You know, what's what's the
1:07:52
worst that can happen? You know, I mean, I'd say, I
1:07:55
mean, part of it, a lot of it has to do with the way I was
1:07:57
brought up. You know, my father, you know,
1:08:00
always told me, you know, just do it, you know, just do it.
1:08:06
What what the hell you got to lose?
1:08:09
And, you know, going to prison, I just think just adds to that,
1:08:13
you know, ethos, you know, you went to prison.
1:08:19
You're not they're not gonna send you back to prison for
1:08:22
doing this, right? So just do it.
1:08:26
And is somebody so much better than you?
1:08:30
That's the way I look at it. I go you're.
1:08:32
Well, and I think that goes all the way back to when, you know,
1:08:36
the crash happened and you thought, wait a minute, I could
1:08:39
do this. If these guys are the biggest
1:08:41
guys in the universe, I they didn't know anything.
1:08:43
Maybe I'm good at this. I, I think I have more
1:08:46
confidence than I really should have in myself.
1:08:49
I think, I think I, I, that's honestly what I think it is.
1:08:53
I have this much greater belief in myself than I have any reason
1:08:59
to, you know, And so I live in this deluded world of, of, of
1:09:06
self worth. So I think, I think that's what
1:09:09
I've got going for myself, you know, So I try things, you know,
1:09:14
and I end up failing a bunch of times of.
1:09:16
Course, every great business book you read, you read about
1:09:19
all the failures in there and then they make it.
1:09:21
Yeah, I think that's what it is. You know, I, I, I think I, I'm
1:09:27
daring. I don't know, You know, I, I
1:09:30
place big bets and that's I guess why I don't, I've never
1:09:34
been married. I have no kids because I
1:09:36
wouldn't put any other human beings through what I put myself
1:09:41
through, you know? It's a one man show.
1:09:44
Yeah. So 70 million jobs, it becomes a
1:09:47
thing. I mean, if you read about it,
1:09:48
you can look it up. The the pandemic hits, which is
1:09:52
a terrible thing for a lot of businesses that happened and
1:09:56
they start peeling off people. They hired all the people that
1:10:00
we placed and companies stop hiring and that's what we relied
1:10:08
on for our revenue and it just drags on and on and on.
1:10:12
I put my own money in which I didn't have much of, which
1:10:15
you're not supposed to do when you're a a founder of a startup,
1:10:20
but I did it again, a big bet that did not pay off puts me
1:10:25
deeply in debt, which I'm still paying back on.
1:10:31
But I have to shut down the company.
1:10:34
So now I have to get jobs again and I'm just way too old to put
1:10:39
myself through that. But now I have an idea for a new
1:10:43
start up again still in the RE entry space that I'm very
1:10:47
excited about and I think it's going to be an even bigger
1:10:52
success. I do too, and you and I have
1:10:54
been talking. I think, you know, we're both in
1:10:57
this re entry space, you know, and, and what do you think?
1:11:01
What do you think of the what's going on in the re entry world
1:11:04
right now? Like the because you've, you've,
1:11:08
you swam all in it and, and it's, it's got so many issues,
1:11:14
you know? What do I think?
1:11:19
I think this, I think that that the formerly incarcerated of of
1:11:27
which at this point is maybe 100 million people, which which
1:11:35
equates to about 1/3 of the all the adults in the United States.
1:11:40
So it's a huge population. It is a much maligned and much
1:11:50
ignored population that I could compare to back in the day.
1:11:56
Women back in the day, African Americans back in the day, LGBTQ
1:12:03
community. They were all people who the
1:12:12
general population thought had no economic power or value.
1:12:22
They had no voice. They had no political power or a
1:12:25
voice. Nobody thought they were worth
1:12:32
talking to. Nobody.
1:12:34
No politician tried to garner their vote.
1:12:38
No brands tried to market to them directly until they became
1:12:46
a thing, and the thought that people would not value women as
1:12:57
a important bloc of voters is unthinkable.
1:13:04
It is now at this point, yeah. Right.
1:13:06
The thought that music companies would not try to market to
1:13:11
African Americans or that clothing companies would not
1:13:15
market to LGBTQ people is like, unthinkable.
1:13:21
And yet that's the way it was until they had a moment, until
1:13:27
the civil rights movement happened, until the women's
1:13:32
movement happened, until, you know, everything happened with
1:13:38
the L GB TQI think that it's happening now with the formerly
1:13:45
incarcerated through Black Lives Matter, through all that
1:13:49
happened, you know, with the murders of, you know, African
1:13:55
Americans over the last several years bringing all this
1:13:59
attention. Not only that, through the war
1:14:02
on drugs, which meant that every family has an uncle or a brother
1:14:07
who's been arrested. I believe that they are having
1:14:11
this moment and that means that this population which could
1:14:17
easily elect president, if someone could bring them
1:14:23
together and vote together, that could buy a hell of a lot of
1:14:28
sneakers and music and brands of all kinds if they could be
1:14:34
galvanized together. But no one has tried to do that.
1:14:39
Nobody has tried remotely to bring it together.
1:14:43
I think that's an incredible business opportunity.
1:14:47
I think it's an incredible political, economic and social
1:14:50
opportunity, and I agree. More.
1:14:53
I think I am uniquely qualified to do that given my lived
1:14:58
experience, given my business experience and given my passion
1:15:01
for it. So that's what I'm working on.
1:15:04
I am working on Facebook for the formerly incarcerated, a social
1:15:11
network when asked, and you could ChatGPT, Q ChatGPT.
1:15:20
This question, what are the top three things that people with
1:15:23
records, when asked want say that they want most?
1:15:28
The number one thing they say is a job.
1:15:31
The number two thing that they say they want is housing.
1:15:35
The number three thing they say, which is surprising to me, they
1:15:41
say they want community, community.
1:15:44
Now that's like sort of a squishy esoteric thing that you
1:15:47
wouldn't think that they would that many people would answer,
1:15:50
but that's what they asked for. Nobody.
1:15:54
Nobody is at. Nobody has worked anything on
1:15:57
that at all. No.
1:15:58
And I, I think what you just said is I think so smart on
1:16:01
that's why I really enjoyed our conversation the other day,
1:16:04
because I also feel like that if you could put an umbrella over
1:16:08
the top of that, like like a card carrying member of an AARP,
1:16:13
that, that you actually do create a movement of people who
1:16:17
have a whole lot of power. If they, if they band together
1:16:22
and they can change a lot of different things.
1:16:23
And that's, I love that your brain is, is engaged in this,
1:16:28
Richard, because that's where change happens.
1:16:30
That's where things happen in, in spaces like this.
1:16:33
So I guess to wrap up, I what do you think's your biggest take
1:16:40
away through all this that you've experienced?
1:16:46
What's my biggest take away? Because you've experienced a
1:16:49
lot. Well, I I am very, very much in
1:16:57
touch with my own mortality, and I can't help but think that any
1:17:05
day. I mean, I'm a Buddhist and the
1:17:09
Buddha says the only thing that's certain is you're going
1:17:12
to die. You're going to die.
1:17:14
I love us. Get out of here alive.
1:17:16
For sure. And I'm very, you know, every
1:17:19
day that I get older and I have all kinds of, you know, physical
1:17:25
issues. So, you know, I can't help but
1:17:30
think about that a lot, you know, And I think, well,
1:17:34
Richard, you've had a life. Yep.
1:17:38
And if it happens tomorrow, I'm prepared for it.
1:17:41
At least I think I am. You know, I've had a life and I
1:17:47
could use a rest. So, well, I, I could say I can
1:17:52
say more than that. I think what you have done with
1:17:55
your life has made a difference. And I think you're still trying
1:17:58
to, to engage in making a difference and making an impact.
1:18:01
And I, it's what I love about doing these interviews on this
1:18:06
show is that you brought it up earlier.
1:18:10
Our show isn't about people who've gone to prison.
1:18:12
Our show is about people who've lived through a nightmare and
1:18:14
survived and figured out how they can get their confidence
1:18:17
back to try to make an impact or just live the way they want to
1:18:20
live when they have survived what they've survived.
1:18:22
And I think that's where you are.
1:18:24
You have done a lot of things, a lot of things that people would
1:18:29
read about in books, but you haven't quit.
1:18:31
You're still engaged and, and looking for the next big thing.
1:18:36
And I love that. I think that's that's inspiring
1:18:40
to people because if you just do it, if you believe in whatever's
1:18:44
going on in your head and you take action with it, who knows?
1:18:47
Who knows? Who knows who?
1:18:49
Knows. I'm pretty sure it's it won't
1:18:51
play out the way I'm expecting. You know the the old does the
1:18:56
old Yiddish expression. Man plans and God laughs.
1:19:00
That's it. I love that.
1:19:02
Love that phrase. Well, for those talking about
1:19:06
gratitude and mortality, everything else I want to thank
1:19:09
Homestead Financial Home Mortgage lets me use all this
1:19:13
fancy equipment in here, lights and action and and if you've got
1:19:17
home mortgage needs, Greg Aftyev is your guy.
1:19:19
He knows all of his stuff. If you're if you're looking for
1:19:23
a book out there, I've got one. I can't reach it.
1:19:25
It's here in the back. Get it 9 for success on Barnes
1:19:29
and Noble, Amazon. If you are looking for anything
1:19:33
about me, go to brickcassidy.com.
1:19:35
I spell it wrong. I spell it with the Ty, not a
1:19:38
DYI. Would love to have been part of
1:19:41
the Sean and David Cassidy deal, but I wasn't.
1:19:43
I was the guy that spelled it wrong.
1:19:44
Cassidy, as I used to say when I was writing my letters and
1:19:49
emails back and forth from Leavenworth, stay strong.
1:19:51
I'll do the same. Richard Bronson, man, thanks so
1:19:55
much for being here today and. Jared, I had fun.
1:19:57
Thanks for having me, Brad. Good stuff.
1:20:00
Nightmare success in and out.