Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Andor with Costume Designer, Michael Wilkinson

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Andor with Costume Designer, Michael Wilkinson · The Art of Costume Podcast

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Riots a lot of pressure with you so much white to and it jumps it
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outfits. I'd be a little nervous looking
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at it, right? I think I made a costume is
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quite nervous too. We did.
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I want to say over 400 what? You know prisoner scrubs?
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Wow, we are In that set for many weeks.
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So we had to make sure that everyone looked box fresh.
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Hello and welcome to the art accosting.
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Blogcast I am your host Spencer Williams, and thank you so much
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for joining me for another bonus episode.
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Okay, costume nerds hours two hours month is going off.
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I mean, we just talked about Empire Strikes Back.
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We have the Mandalorian coming up with some special guests, but
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doesn't stop there. Now, we're talking about the new
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Disney + TV. Is which I absolutely love and
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door. And we're going to be joined by
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another special guest costume Designer Michael Wilkinson and
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just a few seconds here. But first, we have to get into
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our everyday business of the podcast.
1:22
So I will start us off with a little summary.
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And, or is the prequel series to Star Wars Rogue one, and an air
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of filled with danger deception and Intrigue casting and or will
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embark on the path does Destin, a turn him into a rebel hero?
1:36
A diving behind a wardrobe. This series was created by Tony
1:39
Gilroy and costumes designed by Michael Wilkinson.
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You will know Michaels work from films such as party, monster
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sky-high 300, which I love Watchman Terminator, Salvation
1:54
Tron legacy. What an incredible film that we
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haven't yet talked about on the podcast, by definitely feel like
1:59
that is in the future Sucker Punch.
2:02
Twilight breaking dawn, part 1 and 2 Man of Steel, American
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Hustle for which Michael was nominated for an Oscar
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nomination. Batman vs, Superman Justice
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League Aladdin and jingle jingle for which we did a holiday
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episode this past season. Wow.
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What a resume. Michael Wilkinson is the
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coolest, and without further Ado, we're going to take a
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little break and when we come back, we will be joined by the
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costume designer himself Michael Wilkinson.
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I am so excited to introduce costume, Designer.
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Michael Wilkinson. Hi Michael.
3:04
Hey Spencer, glad to talk with you.
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It's so nice to finally meet you.
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We actually did a podcast episode this past holiday season
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talking about jingle Jangles. We've been big fans of yours
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over here on this side. Oh fantastic.
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I'm so glad. We talked about everything to do
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with and or event. But yes, of course, well,
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jumping into and, or sing your previous work on Films such as
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Tron and Terminator Salvation, the Justice League, Star Wars to
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me felt like the most logical natural progression for your
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career, and Designing, like, when is Michael going to do a
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Star Wars movie? So you're now part of this
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Legacy of Star Wars costume designers, were you excited and
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nervous? All of the above?
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Yeah, I think all of the above, you know, incredibly humbled and
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honored. I mean, when you think of all of
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the amazing costume designers over the last 50 years that have
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contributed to the, you know, the iconography of Star Wars
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costuming from John Marlowe, Trish Mega Michael Kaplan, I
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mean, I mean, you know, a lot of my design here are so it was
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wonderful to join that league and to sort of work out what was
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going to be a take on Star Wars. Costuming, that would really
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work with the scripts that Tony Gilroy had produced and his kind
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of particular vision and his way in to Star Wars, what would,
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what would the costumes that that look like that would had
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to, you know, definitely touched on the DNA of Star Wars
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costuming iconography. But also sort of showed the
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audience has something new compelling.
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Something they hadn't seen before something.
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Surprising you're all the mincer.
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Yeah, it was. That was the challenge that
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still ahead of Base. Oh yes, a little excitement.
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But also what's like slightly nerve-racking at the same time,
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right? I mean, it's experience only a
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few people actually truly know. So I'm preparing in this
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conversation with for, with you. I read that.
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You spent a long time actually working on this project, it
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wasn't just a couple. Of months.
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I've daresay almost two years. Yeah, it was a really amazing
5:09
experience. But we had a major world
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pandemic in the middle of it so that's sort of cop thing.
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Yeah, a lot that looks it's unfortunate, but it was quite a
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long gestation of creatively of this show for many reasons.
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And so I really had a chance to do what I wanted to do which was
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to Deep dive into the history of Star Wars costuming.
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What? What did what had all the
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costumes look like All the different iterations from the
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movies, from the graphic, novels the animation, all in the
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different sort of wealth, of Star Wars imagery that had been
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produced over the years and get to know that very well.
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And then sort of having learnt the rules if you like and would
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then be sort of free to break the rules because Tony's writing
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was so incredibly detailed and nuanced really quite unusual.
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I think for Star Wars Universe. It was very, it wasn't sort of
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built around big action series and sort of, you know, sort of
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family dinner, Ste sagas, it really had this very dense sort
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of layered approach to the all of the characters.
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They were all very well drawn out in three dimensions.
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You know, they weren't heroic all the times.
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I had their good days and there are bad days.
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So all of these nuances are sooo.
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Yeah. Like like human beings.
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So I knew that the costumes had to reflect That to, you know,
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they were had to be nuanced. They had to be detailed, they
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had to be layered. It couldn't just be like cool
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for the sake of looking cool and memorable.
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It had to be, you know. Yeah.
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Really well thought out and and have a reason, you know, we
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pretty pretty early on. In our design chat, we realized
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that one of our rules was going to be their costume choices had
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to be practical. They had to be character-driven
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not just sort of ornamental and because things Look great or
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look to sci-fi and not to sort of fall into that trap but just
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really think about why things looked the way they did.
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Right there, kind of brings me to my next point and I'm going
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to bring it pictures now for the rest of this because we need
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some color. But what I love about the and or
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series and the costumes is actually the realism, something
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that you don't always see in the Star Wars Universe.
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You know, sometimes it's very over-the-top and sci-fi but and
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or in its own way, feel very real and authentic.
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But would you say realism and authenticity played a You're
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rolling your process when it came to the costumes.
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Yeah, absolutely. I think those two are probably
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Paramount importance for our design approach and it's
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something that I thought about all the time, things look, the
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way they did for a reason. So, for example, what you've got
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on the screen now is images of farex.
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So if Eric's was a planet that we hadn't discovered before
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something that Tony Gilroy created, so it was a community
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in which I really felt. I wanted to know who these
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people all were and what sort of characterize this community is a
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sense of all working together watching each other's back.
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They're incredibly industrious. This like a work planet, where
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they make things, I strip things, they sell things, they
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get things done. So I wanted to reflect that real
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practicality in their costuming. But I also wanted to sense have
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a sense that there's like, any, any society.
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There's just this wonderful diversity and range of people's
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backgrounds and what they did You know, all men of the
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costumes looked the same as each other.
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You know, there were, there were teams of people that work
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together, that sort of had a sense of a uniform, but then
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within deeper within the culture, there were shopkeepers
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they were sellers. There were people have made
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things sold things, so I really there were musicians, they had a
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whole culture there. So I really wanted to have the
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audience feel like that everyone was an individual, they all kind
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of worked together, but they also work You know, doing their
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own things. So that was my, that was my take
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on thorax and hope that, I hope that helped to make it feel
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authentic and real. It did it felt very immersive,
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like you, this, it was Star Wars, but at the same time it
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just felt like it was its own story.
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At the same time, which I felt was very important to the series
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and also what I love about and or sometimes good costume design
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is the costume that blends in with the environment and so
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much, well end or these characters are Actually trying
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not to be seen middle, which is interesting for a costume
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designer. So how do you approach design a
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costume for character who is mostly in Disguise?
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Most of the time? Yeah, that's a really good
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point. I'll leading, man, Cassie, and,
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and, or in our season is someone who is always trying to hide.
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He's trying not to draw attention to himself.
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We wanted to show the journey that he goes through visually
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from when we first see him five years before the Events of Rogue
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one that in our show we are going to build right up to the
10:08
second before Rogue one. And so in other those years
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Cassie and sort of goes from a younger man who's really trying
10:15
to work out, who he is, what he is, what his strengths are.
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But at the beginning of the show, he's kind of messing up a
10:23
little bit. He's owes people money, he's on
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the Run, he's kind of like not at all disciplined.
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So to, you know, to show those sort of close, I wanted to
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create costumes. Games that were again, kind of
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layered not close to the body. He had a hoodie that he could
10:41
like pop up when he wanted to disappear colors.
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It didn't bring attention to him themselves ale anything.
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So, you didn't really get a sense of his physique.
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He was just kind of hiding in this pile of clothes.
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So you're that little, the sorts of design considerations.
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I was thinking about when I put together his costumes and then
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you'll notice that throughout the season, his clothes, get a
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little less layered. A No more defined.
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There's a little light tailoring that goes in there so you sort
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of get a more heroic silhouette by the last episode.
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He's in a really strong sort of full-length Overcoat, which is
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sort of the beginning of a more heroic silhouette for him.
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I love that girl. So yeah, there was a real.
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Yeah, really nice Journey for him.
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I think visually and two other characters.
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Actually go through a similar Journey.
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I'm talking about Vel sarthe valse artha and luthan both
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moves. Seamlessly from upper class of
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Coruscant into these Rebel roll rolls.
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How do you discuss a creative process and navigation opposite
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ends of the design Spectrum State have to play two different
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parts technically? Yeah.
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Well, what really attracted me to this scripts when I read
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them, was that the sense that most characters really are not
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really showing their true identity.
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They are, they're always, they sort of in hiding.
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They have, they have agendas, you're not really sure.
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What sure, what side they're fighting on.
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So that's true of both Bell. I'm Lutheran.
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Certainly and indeed of mon, mothma and Cassian.
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So all about principal characters were sort of leading
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this double lives. They were trying to sort of yeah
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hide themselves from the world. So with they'll we see her go
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from a sort of more militant sort of early Rebel fighter
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where she sort of joining a quite Rowley pack of soldiers
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that are trying to sort of prove their mettle as lattice for the
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Rebel Alliance. So you see them hiding out
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trying to blend in with the locals on the planet.
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I'll Downey, so there, but opted, the local Garb which is
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this very kind of layered, woolly graphic, kind of almost
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Tibetan style of clothing, but then surprised surprised.
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By the time you get to the latest episode.
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You see her in a completely Different contexts.
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And you realize that she's actually from an extremely
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wealthy Shen drill and family, she's mon mothma his cousin and
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so really shocking, I know you're right.
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She was actually someone incredible wealth of resources,
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but who was choosing to channel her energies into this sort of
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fledgling, Rebel movement. I thought that was a really
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powerful Character decision. And it was really fun, exploring
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the to do, two different ways addressing and of course, you're
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always looking for. Wait, connections between the
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two things to sort of, make sure will it is the same person.
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It is the same character. She doesn't suddenly have other
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principles or different thoughts about how she wants to present
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herself to the world. So trying to find whether it's a
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color tone or palette or silhouette connections between
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the different personas. So there is a level of
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credibility. Edibility and sort of
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authenticity to those costumes, right?
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That's a brilliant, a dark and her costumes just through
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costume designing. I think we need to talk about
14:14
our Title Character a little bit casting and or played by Diego
14:17
Luna as we all know. He's been playing this character
14:20
for a little while now. So I would imagine that this
14:23
role this series is very important to him.
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So was their collaboration between the two of you and
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finding the character through the costume.
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Yeah. Diego is amazing.
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He's such a smart. He's also a producer on this
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series so he has this very overarching approach to to, to
14:40
working on the show. It's not just sort of an ego
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based like this is my character. He's sort of thinking a problem
14:46
the whole picture but he's very, he's very thoughtful.
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Like every detail matters and I really appreciate and respect
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that because every detail matters to me to.
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So in a fitting it's not just, this is what I think you should
15:00
wear. There's always lots of
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interesting discussion about At a particular scene is about what
15:05
we're trying to say in any scene and how the costumes can help,
15:09
you know, highlight the themes or certain side of the
15:14
character, whether it's like a choice of fabric or silhouette
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or shoulder line or the sense that he's made an effort to look
15:22
a certain way in a certain scene or whether, you know, he's lost
15:26
everything and nothing matters anymore.
15:28
And that's reflected in the costume, all of those little
15:30
details are discussed in our fittings and I think you can
15:34
really tell on the screen. It's, he feels like a real
15:37
person. It's not just the sort of a
15:40
something that's straight up. The work room table off.
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My design sketch book and onto a bring this kind of layers of
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details and distressing and things that hopefully, help feel
15:52
real, really helped him feel the character again, which cause,
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you know, been a little while since Rogue one.
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So it was nice to have you there to help him, get back into that
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character. Yeah.
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And also just Luring, you know, who?
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I think we all watched Rogue one and we were like, who is this
16:08
guy? What is this back story?
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Where did he come from? How did he become this guy?
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And so to sort of help like paint little scenarios along the
16:16
way the five years leading up to Rogue one?
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What were those moments? What were those style points
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that he might have held onto? Or those phases that he went
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through that, he then evolved from, as from his costumes, that
16:30
was great to think about all of that.
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Let's head on over to Coruscant have specifically.
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I want to talk about the icon that is mon mothma.
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I imagine as a costume designer, this must have been that like
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the real playground for you. First, I read that you took some
16:45
inspiration from some of mon mothma as previous appearances.
16:49
Then I would just love to hear your overall concept behind a
16:52
costumes. And if you're concerned on doing
16:54
like a mon mothma Museum because these pieces are just, you know,
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I was really thrilled at the prospect of working on.
17:03
On Monmouth nurse costumes. And, and when I met Genevieve
17:07
O'Reilly, I was even more thrilled because she is such a
17:10
smart thinker and a really, you know, intuitive and I feel like
17:15
a really inspired actress are coming up with these costumes
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with Genevieve was was such a joy.
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But what I was really interested in is this sort of again like a
17:24
sort of like a jewel a duality in her costuming you know on the
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surface she is this you know, highly functioning.
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And Coruscant that is has a very public life.
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And then that behind the scenes, she's beginning to funnel her
17:41
wealth and resources into you know the growing Rebel Alliance
17:46
and to do that. Put her life at Great risk.
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So essentially I wanted to have costumes that had again layers
17:53
so that you know you could show them the more private side of
17:57
her. The more public side of her.
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We thought that her her work clothes should almost feel like
18:03
armor. Moritz.
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What you put on the tired, the Precision of the tailoring, the
18:07
strength of the lines, the structure of those costumes
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would kind of feel like what she puts on to Clyde's.
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You know the vulnerability of the situation that she finds
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herself in and just as good we haven't really discovered
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chandrila and culture. Before on screen, she comes from
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a planet chandrila. And so I had the opportunity to
18:28
kind of build with the production designer, what that
18:31
culture is and we came up with this.
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Wild beautiful sort of sort of subtle neutrals and lots of
18:38
metallics and an elegant layering of sort of modern
18:43
fabrics and shapes. So we started to build up the
18:48
language of chandrila and culture, you can see that in the
18:50
embassy where she lives. You can see that in her clothing
18:53
and her jewelry. And so that was a real joy to to
18:57
create that with with the production designer.
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Luke Hull. It's so beautiful and I love
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these. So it's kind of like armor.
19:03
To because if you look at my favorite costume is the top left
19:07
one that has the pleated drape over shoulder.
19:09
That one is just, yeah. But if it was like an all-black,
19:14
you would almost seem like Game of Thrones or something to at
19:16
the same time. So she is very defensive, but
19:19
just she puts her own polish spin on everything.
19:22
So, exactly, that's exactly it will.
19:24
Hopefully and season 2. You have some some new things to
19:29
look at and to think about and, you know, you always have to
19:32
make sure the season two is Even more exciting than season one.
19:35
So the stadium every night due to that?
19:39
Yeah, you'll be hearing from me. Alright.
19:43
So, let's actually talk about one of my favorite episodes
19:48
actually takes place on our Kina 5 in the prison because when I
19:52
saw all these costumes, I thought, well, I never thought I
19:55
would love a prison outfit as much as I do.
19:57
Now, these are so cool by Imagine such a challenge because
20:01
everything is so white. Right.
20:04
But I mean, you still use the elements of a traditional orange
20:07
jumpsuit, I would say. So, what was your process Behind
20:09
These costumes? Was it a challenge?
20:11
It was a challenge and I kind of agree with you.
20:13
I wasn't expecting these episodes to be quite so visually
20:17
arresting, but I was so pleased, how they worked out.
20:20
I feel the again collaborating with the production designer
20:23
Luke Hall. We decided this white on white
20:26
palette would be very powerful and sort of spoke of, you know,
20:30
the Imperial the pier Imperials. I think an environment and
20:34
clothing which would be ultimately quite disempowering
20:37
and disorientating for their prisoners.
20:40
You know, when there's nowhere to hide in these environments
20:42
and the clothes are very sterile impersonal.
20:46
They're all exactly the same as each other.
20:48
You know, they are very disposable so they're sort of,
20:52
says something about how the Imperial see their prisoners in
20:57
this disposable way. You wear these uniforms, once
21:00
you throw them away, you get sterilized, you put another A on
21:03
for the next day. So we like to sort of sense of
21:07
dehumanized quality of the prisoner of the prison.
21:11
And then so we found I found this incredible fabric which was
21:14
a real joy to work with. It was kind of paper like and
21:18
had this very industrial synthetic feel to it.
21:23
And we found this method of like I knew I wanted this orange
21:27
flashes on them so that, you know, on a practical level, the
21:32
guards would be able to sort of have Flasher moved to be able to
21:35
see the prisoners within the environment, right?
21:38
Also, it gave us a great opportunity to sort of refer to
21:41
the great, you know, graphic, the graphic design language of
21:44
Star Wars with these sort of, almost 70, super graphic designs
21:49
down the sleeves and down the arm.
21:52
And so I knew that we would be seeing these costumes for loss
21:55
of episodes on lots of people in close-ups.
21:58
And so every sort of square into the costume, hope I was making
22:02
sure that there was cool things too.
22:03
Look at and it had it was sort of saying what we needed the
22:08
costumes to say, right? It's a lot of pressure with, you
22:11
know, so much white to and it jumps it outfit.
22:14
So I would be a little nervous looking at it.
22:17
I think I made a costume is quite nervous, too.
22:20
It did me. I think I want to say over 400
22:24
what, you know prisoner scrubs? Wow, we were in that set for
22:29
many weeks, so we had to make sure that everyone looked box
22:32
fresh. Yeah.
22:33
That's a big deal that's hard to do, especially with so many
22:37
replicas, Bix, Catalin is another strong character
22:41
introduced to the Star Wars Universe.
22:43
She goes through quite a lot in the series I'd say and I'm sure
22:46
she has even more coming down the line.
22:48
What was the design process? Like for her character?
22:50
Knowing she had to fight and run, but also maintain a
22:54
business. And I think this also is a great
22:56
moment for us to talk about the breakdown of costumes, as well,
23:00
but working with a trio was so arresting, you know, again, very
23:05
intelligent actress brings a lot to.
23:07
The table has lots of ideas and we really wanted her to be a
23:11
powerful female characters, as you say, she ran around
23:14
business. She's extremely capable.
23:15
She's good with tools, she's a practical woman.
23:19
And so, all of that had to be reflected in her costuming.
23:23
We the great thing about Star Wars is that every detail
23:27
matters. So you know I know that the fans
23:29
are going to zoom in on everything every last detail and
23:32
you enjoy. How things are put together.
23:34
So, you know, it's great as a costume designer to know that
23:37
your work is going to be appreciated on such a level.
23:40
So, with her, for example, we created a, we created lots of
23:44
different fabrics for her for her t-shirt, eating and sort of
23:47
layered Fabrics together. We did this kind of interesting
23:51
coat for that. You can see for her in the
23:53
middle image there, that was kind of structured but kind of
23:57
we wanted it Like a Star Wars Carhartt kind of bomb jacket.
24:00
So we used a lot of the sort of Style Elements of At the
24:03
coloring, the fleece collar, but we added all sorts of
24:06
interesting sort of more sci-fi elements.
24:10
But yet only wanted it all to feel authentic work where you
24:14
know she has a cool suede apron on when she is when we first
24:19
meet her she's kind of doing a repair and then her work where
24:23
yeah has a sort of really nice worn in.
24:25
Look, you mentioned the distressing, the breakdown, we
24:28
have an incredible Department of people whose job it is to take
24:32
things Fresh Off. The In the workroom and make
24:34
them feel lived in north entik and one and have all of those
24:40
lovely details that all about human beings clothings, have
24:45
when we wear them the creases and lovely sense of where.
24:50
So that was a really important for me, and I think maybe farex
24:53
is the strongest example of that where things all I really want
24:59
in and feel real, right? I love the detail on her
25:02
costume. Um so especially like the vest
25:05
she's wearing in her Workshop. What type of fabrics are those?
25:08
I mean, most of them are for her.
25:11
We didn't use mostly, you know, natural fibers.
25:14
We Linens and Cotton's and heavy canvas has some actual use.
25:20
Okay, I think synthetic fleece on some, of the lines of our
25:23
costumes. But yeah, I think the thing is
25:25
that natural fibers usually distress and break down the
25:30
best, they really get that sense of wear and tear some Extent.
25:34
I really had to sort of to break down great.
25:37
So I was really drawn to more more natural fibers for her.
25:43
And then last question for you being on Coruscant, there are a
25:47
lot of different background characters yet ever looks very
25:51
put together full details. As you've mentioned, there is
25:53
not a moment where we could just, you know, skip out on a
25:56
detail. Everything has to be very looked
25:59
after as so. How did you make this happen?
26:01
Especially with Coruscant. I imagine this might be a
26:04
testament to your brilliant crew.
26:07
That's very kind of you. I mean, I can when we create
26:12
these worlds and my thinking about a planet like Coruscant,
26:15
we want them to feel real and authentic.
26:17
And in any society, there's so many different types of people
26:20
doing so many different types of things.
26:22
So it wasn't just a case of making 100 of these pairs of
26:26
pants and a hundred of these jackets and them wearing them in
26:29
different ways. We really we created hundreds
26:31
and hundreds of different types. Clothing pieces, you laze
26:35
trousers, jackets shirts, head, wear shoes accessories.
26:41
And so when you give that sort of individual attention to the
26:45
pieces, then when you put them together in a pits, they really
26:48
start to feel authentic and real.
26:51
But the wonderful thing about Coruscant is that it's a sort of
26:54
attitude Planet. So you have the, the ultra Elite
26:58
on the top level of the planet, which is the world of the Senate
27:04
and Lutheran's gallery and that sort of world the embassies and
27:08
then you go further down to the sort of more commuter sort of
27:12
corporate level of Coruscant and then you which is very sort of
27:19
cereal and Edie live and then you go right down to the lower
27:23
levels which is people with less resources.
27:26
It's much less light. So it's a darker world and
27:29
that's where you get all sorts of idiosyncratic people.
27:33
And Shares. And so, yeah, but they all live
27:36
on the same Planet, so you have to have a design language that
27:39
Bridges, all of those. So it feels integrated and yet,
27:43
sort of expresses all of this incredible diversity.
27:46
So, yeah, lots to think about each team to carry it all up.
27:50
I had an incredible team of about 80 people back from.
27:55
We just were able to divide and conquer and put lots of love and
27:59
detailed into all of these characters.
28:01
I love it so much. And with that, you know Michael
28:05
I'm such a fan of your work on and or is such a great project
28:08
and I know you know you have more coming up so it's not done
28:12
yet, but I just want to know, you know, with all the time you
28:15
put on this project, was this project meant to you as a
28:17
designer professionally personally, I think it's being
28:22
hugely challenging on so many levels, you know?
28:24
I like to I like to choose jobs because they are challenging and
28:28
they're going to teach me something new.
28:31
I'm going to try something. I've never done before.
28:33
I think with Star Wars, it's it's so huge.
28:37
It's such an ambitious project. You know, we produced 12
28:41
episodes, they were all about 50 minutes long.
28:43
It's kind of like doing three or four Super Star Wars films
28:46
back-to-back, right? And so, the whole trilogy
28:49
already, I mean, so it's a challenge on so many levels, of
28:53
course creatively but also just like on a, you know, on a mental
28:57
spiritual physical level, just having the stamina to come to
29:01
come to work every day. Deliver your Or best do
29:04
something inspired, you know, be nice to your team, have a good
29:09
day at work to do that you know for a year on a huge scale where
29:13
the pressure is. So Qui just when the project
29:17
finished I was so proud of what we had done as a team, I had
29:22
sort of proven something to myself just individually about
29:25
back at the personal challenge of doing something this huge and
29:29
that was really, really gratifying.
29:32
I love that costume. Designer Michael Wilkinson.
29:34
Congratulations. And I can't wait to see what's
29:36
coming up next. Thank you so much been so great
29:39
to talk with you. You're out of costume.
29:44
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