Latest / The Curve / RTC102: Why talking money with your partner is vital (and a little bit sexy), with Nicole Haddow.

Transcript

RTC102: Why talking money with your partner is vital (and a little bit sexy), with Nicole Haddow. · The Curve

0:00
Welcome to Raising the Curve, a podcast designed to teach you everything you need to know
0:05
to be better with your money.
0:07
And the wise words of Amy Shurma were slipping carrots into the brownie recipe.
0:12
I don't really get the saying.
0:14
It's kind of like eating vegetables that actually taste good.
0:17
You know, I'm like, still not ready to eat.
0:19
Are you on the script?
0:21
It's basically like saying, investing in finance can be boring, but it totally doesn't
0:26
need to be.
0:27
OK, OK, so we're making it fun by putting the carrot.
0:31
OK, the vegetables are just good for you.
0:33
It's the brownie recipe.
0:35
OK, we got there, we got there.
0:36
OK, OK, well, you've really got a finance brain.
0:39
Yeah, one of us has to.
0:40
This is a joke.
0:41
OK, come and learn alongside me from Vick Harris, ex-fun manager.
0:45
Well, I'm going to ask all the questions that you wish you could.
0:48
And I'm going to be eating all the brownie you wish you could.
0:51
It's so not the joke, Vick.
0:53
Oh, OK, just come and talk and learn and laugh with us
0:56
because together, we really can race the curve.
1:01
So we interviewed an incredible lady called Nicole Heddo.
1:05
She's written an amazing book called Couple Goals,
1:08
building a strong financial future and an even better relationship,
1:12
which is actually out now.
1:13
And she's written like four books, something crazy.
1:16
Anyway, it's all about relationships and money
1:19
and how to have those conversations.
1:22
And it was really, really fascinating.
1:24
And I think it was kind of a therapy session.
1:25
Yeah.
1:26
Especially, I think, because we spoke about you and your relationship
1:29
and your finances.
1:30
And I don't know, oh my god, and remember, we talked about
1:33
like that experience I had with the Stingy guy I was dating.
1:37
Oh, yeah.
1:38
There's actually some quite fun stories in this episode.
1:41
And how to have that conversation with your partner,
1:43
no matter if you're on the first date or on the 10 years married,
1:47
but how to do it in a non-scary way.
1:50
Because a lot of people are like, oh god, I don't want to approach the subject
1:53
because I don't want to kill the romance.
1:54
But yeah, it's all about making your romantic.
1:57
But I feel like she was sort of saying,
1:58
you don't even need to make it romantic.
2:00
Because money isn't romantic, it's nothing.
2:02
And we idealized the idea of everything
2:05
should be rainbows and ferries.
2:06
And actually talking about money is not that hot sometimes.
2:09
So it's fine.
2:11
But I just, I liked, she had a lot of examples of questions
2:13
that you can ask each other, how to approach the conversation.
2:17
Yeah, it was a really good chat.
2:18
And I think for anyone who's either in a relationship, single, married,
2:22
like literally anything, I think you'll get something from this
2:25
with regards to relationships and money.
2:28
Yeah, so give it a listen.
2:31
So Nicole, so you have had quite a significant personal journey
2:35
over the last couple of years.
2:36
So my understanding is that you were in a bit of a significant amount
2:40
of debt in your 20s.
2:41
And congratulations, you've now achieved your purchase of your first time,
2:47
which is actually heritage house, which you purchased a few years ago.
2:50
Can you just talk us through that journey and how you got out of that debt
2:54
and got into your first time?
2:57
Absolutely.
2:58
So it's been quite a long journey.
3:00
Just before I turned 30, I realized I spent my 20s paying rent
3:04
and living quite an enjoyable lifestyle and trying to get ahead
3:08
and not getting there.
3:09
And ultimately, I did what I call a power save.
3:13
In my early 30s, I moved home with my parents for a brief period.
3:17
I stopped going out.
3:19
And I actually bought an apartment first.
3:22
And I lived in that for a few years.
3:24
And during the pandemic, I actually made the leap
3:27
from the apartment to regional Victoria, in Australia.
3:31
And yeah, I'm now in a heritage home.
3:34
It was an absolute fixer upper to begin with,
3:37
but have made a lot of progress and really proud of what I've achieved now.
3:41
Oh, great.
3:42
And when we talk about here at a time,
3:44
are we talking about something out of like a Bridgerton?
3:47
I'm picturing like an estate, a big grand house in out of a country,
3:52
like that kind of thing.
3:53
Can we get a visual place?
3:54
Yes.
3:55
It's definitely not in a state.
3:57
OK.
3:58
Getting a little weather board cottage on a small block.
4:03
It's not a huge piece of land, but the home was built in about 1910.
4:08
So more than 100 years old.
4:10
And when I moved in, it looked like it was more than 100 years old.
4:15
Yeah, it was a lot of work to do, but it had as many people would say very good bones.
4:20
And so I've slowly painted and since met my partner, now husband,
4:26
and he's come in and helped me bring it to life, which is amazing.
4:30
I've got so many questions here.
4:31
Firstly, how has heritage in New Zealand a hundred-year-old home,
4:35
you know, like coming back from London and remembering how young New Zealanders,
4:39
as a country, is like kind of baffling in itself?
4:42
You know, like as well, yeah.
4:44
Totally, like just looking at the houses when you come home,
4:47
you're like, oh, we're such babies here, you know, Europe and London.
4:51
They're heritage buildings are like unbelievably old,
4:54
like the 1700s or something in my house.
4:57
We're currently sitting in a villa.
5:00
This was actually was built in 1910 as well.
5:03
So that's quite a coincidence.
5:05
But I remember when I was buying it and it had the date that it was built
5:08
because you have to make sure that the electricals and everything's up to standard
5:11
and I googled people of 1910 and I was just like, wow, it was like mind-blowing
5:20
those kind of that era or people of that age.
5:24
What if they look like?
5:25
I can't even imagine.
5:26
You know, like corsets and like big dresses, like horse and cart kind of stuff.
5:30
Like making your own butter and that kind of thing.
5:33
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool.
5:34
And so when you say you were in debt and you did a quick save or a power save,
5:38
which I love, how much debt were you in at the time?
5:41
Like how had you wrecked up the debt and also how long did you live at home?
5:45
Because Vic and I have been joking, like hope not on from our families
5:48
listening to this podcast, but like being home in New Zealand at the moment
5:52
while we're recording this podcast,
5:54
we've both been like tapping in and out of like being around all our family.
5:57
And we're like, oh wow, I feel 12 again, you know, like quite an adjustment
6:04
to go from independent living to then back into a family dynamic.
6:07
So yeah, what was the debt?
6:09
How long were you doing your power save?
6:11
The debt was more than $10,000 to credit cards,
6:14
one with a limit of about 5,000 and another with a limit of 6,000.
6:18
And you know, I take full responsibility for some of that debt being related
6:23
to clothing and things that I absolutely didn't need.
6:26
Yeah.
6:27
A lot of it was me trying to get ahead and you know,
6:31
trying to live in the right places so I could live close to work
6:35
and covering the gap on a bond if I needed to move.
6:39
You know, those costs were wrapped up in good faith
6:42
that things would all come together and they didn't, I'm surprisingly.
6:47
So my parents offered me 12 months.
6:50
And what I will say is that, and this is not what I would advise for everyone,
6:56
but I actually didn't pay off that debt at that time.
6:59
I saved my house deposit first.
7:03
I got into my property and then I dealt with the debt later.
7:06
Now that's not what everyone would necessarily do,
7:09
but in Australia prices were rising so fast
7:12
that I prioritised getting into a property before dealing with the debt
7:17
because had I dealt with the debt and then started saving,
7:20
I would have been even further behind.
7:22
It's interesting what you said around the,
7:24
you didn't want to pay off the debt first
7:25
because you wanted to get onto the property market.
7:27
And I think it's interesting because we always talk about,
7:31
you know, credit card debt has some of the highest interest rates.
7:34
So pay that off first, then build up your emergency funders,
7:38
savings and then look to invest whether that's in property,
7:42
the stock market, whatever.
7:43
But I totally hear you and I think it's,
7:45
it's comes down to individual circumstances.
7:48
I think the thing I would say though,
7:50
is that if I'd had my time again,
7:53
wouldn't have been in such a rush.
7:55
There was so much, you know, FOMO, fear of missing out.
7:58
Oh my God, if I don't get in now, I'll never get a house.
8:01
That wasn't the case.
8:02
And I certainly made mistakes and I've certainly learned a lot along the way.
8:06
That's what I did with the knowledge that I had at the time.
8:09
And it's absolutely not necessarily the right path for everyone.
8:13
But I think, you know, millennials and Gen Z
8:15
have this sudden realization,
8:17
oh my God, housing's so expensive, I've got to get in now.
8:20
It's a long term investment.
8:22
You want to make the right decision
8:23
because the cost of buying and selling is really quite high.
8:26
So if you buy something and realize,
8:28
oh, this is not right for me at all, that's a huge challenge.
8:32
It's not liquid.
8:32
It's not something that you can necessarily sell,
8:35
you know, and replace with something else really quickly.
8:37
So you don't want to rush.
8:39
You want to make the right decision.
8:41
Yeah, no, that's a good point.
8:43
But also, I think, yeah, don't beat yourself up.
8:46
I think $10,000 worth of debt in your 20s, either.
8:49
I think a lot of us would do things differently in our 20s.
8:53
I certainly would.
8:54
And I also think the banks kind of need to take a bit of responsibility.
8:58
Like the amount of offers and deals
9:01
that banks have for young people,
9:04
whether it's when you're at university
9:06
or when you're your first job
9:08
and you're earning a salary or earning a bit of income,
9:11
the amount of offers and deals that they throw at you
9:14
about getting a credit card
9:16
or getting it overdraft or going into debt.
9:19
For me, I look back on, I'm just like,
9:21
God, that's such bad advertising
9:24
because a lot of people don't know how to manage it.
9:26
They don't know how to deal with it.
9:28
And they end up like yourself.
9:29
They do end up at debt.
9:31
And then they have to make those harder decisions
9:34
or tougher decisions later in life.
9:35
And that's exactly what happened to me.
9:37
I was in between university degrees
9:39
so I'd started one that wasn't working out.
9:41
I worked full time for six months.
9:43
I went into the bank one day.
9:45
This was back when people still went into the bank.
9:48
And I had to do a bit of administration.
9:51
And they said, oh, you're making great money.
9:53
Would you like a credit card?
9:54
And I was like, oh, yeah, I'd love a credit card.
9:56
Of course, I'm 22.
9:58
That sounds great.
9:59
And it wasn't until I went back to uni
10:03
and I wasn't working full time
10:05
that I was suddenly servicing a debt
10:07
that I couldn't manage.
10:08
I think it's really dangerous the way that anyone
10:11
who even temporarily is earning decent income
10:14
is having debt marketed to them.
10:16
Yeah, definitely.
10:17
And I think credit cards,
10:18
that my parents always had credit cards.
10:20
And so with that mentality,
10:22
I always thought that they were an okay thing
10:25
or something that everybody has.
10:27
Whereas I think now fast forward to today,
10:30
most of us probably all of us have debit cards
10:32
that can be used as credit cards,
10:34
but it's your own money.
10:35
Whereas back in the day,
10:36
if you wanted to buy something online
10:38
or pay for certain things,
10:39
you had to have a credit card.
10:41
And so whereas now I think the world's kind of changing
10:44
and also people are waking up to the fact
10:45
that credit cards you do end up paying a lot
10:48
in terms of interest for taking on that debt.
10:51
And so yeah, I think it's just creating that awareness
10:54
of yes, it might seem like a free $10,000
10:57
or a free $20,000, but it's actually not.
11:00
So yeah.
11:01
Absolutely.
11:02
You remember at New Zealand,
11:05
we have the student loan system.
11:07
One of the things that you could do when I was at uni
11:09
was take out $1,000 of course related costs.
11:13
I mean, how many people were taking that $1,000
11:16
out of a course related cost?
11:18
I'm pretty sure I spent like all of it on clothes.
11:20
No idea.
11:21
Like absolutely no, I bought a new phone one year,
11:24
God, you just don't really fit in the idea
11:27
of to pay that back.
11:28
Even my monthly, sorry, my weekly allowance
11:32
that I was getting from the government.
11:33
At the time, I fully didn't understand the idea
11:37
of I'm going to have to pay back $300 a week
11:39
that I'm taking from the government.
11:41
This is raking up to a lot.
11:42
Like I just had no concept of it.
11:44
I think, so once my brain wasn't like fully developed
11:47
or something, I think there should be protection.
11:51
For young people who don't understand what they're doing
11:54
because you do, you end up in situations
11:55
that you totally could have avoided, had someone told you.
11:59
Yeah, definitely.
12:01
I would love to talk about how you and your husband
12:04
got together because I noticed when you were talking,
12:07
you said that you got together after you bought the house.
12:12
So was there something that you put a prenup in place for?
12:15
Did you decide, okay, we're going to pay off our mortgage?
12:19
Like how did you approach finances?
12:21
Because they know in the book, you talk a lot about
12:24
how you can have those conversations
12:26
and when you have them in a relationship
12:28
and I'm sure there's a lot of people listening
12:30
who either are already in relationships
12:32
and don't know how to rewrite that conversation
12:34
or that narrative or people who aren't
12:37
or in the early days of seeing someone.
12:38
And yeah, it would be amazing if you feel comfortable
12:41
sharing what that journey was like
12:44
between you and your husband and what you learned from it.
12:47
Absolutely.
12:48
So we had a very interesting experience
12:50
in the respect that, as you say,
12:52
I had to purchase the property.
12:54
When I met Sam, he was renting
12:56
and his lease was coming to an end.
12:58
And we were in a wind romance and he's a treaty
13:02
and he knew that he could come in
13:04
and help me with the renovation.
13:06
So he moved in after six weeks,
13:08
which is obviously not what most people do.
13:10
We actually put an agreement in place
13:12
that he would actually clear a small amount of debt
13:15
that he had before he started contributing,
13:18
but rather than contributing financially,
13:20
each week he did things to renovate the house
13:23
and add value to the house.
13:24
Very handy.
13:25
I think I'm with huge problems in the event
13:28
that the relationship doesn't work out
13:30
because that means he's added value
13:33
and they can't even prove it, can you?
13:35
Or it's not like it's quite risky for hammers, isn't it?
13:38
It was potentially very risky for both of us.
13:41
And this was around the time that I started looking into
13:44
what my rights were, his rights were,
13:46
what was best practice?
13:49
Because it really hadn't occurred to me.
13:50
I'd worked really hard for this asset
13:52
and all of a sudden I've met a great bloke,
13:55
but if it doesn't work out,
13:56
I've potentially done myself some damage.
13:59
And how early on did you have that conversation?
14:02
We had that conversation straight away.
14:03
So I was really fortunate.
14:04
Sam said to me,
14:05
look, I will sign anything that summits your rights.
14:08
I completely appreciate that.
14:10
You have purchased this home and I am moving in.
14:12
And that's a really important point.
14:14
If you have a partner who says,
14:16
I'm not going to do that
14:17
or I'm not going to help you protect the asset
14:20
that you've earned prior to coming this relationship,
14:23
that's a big concern.
14:25
So whether it's Red Flag City, isn't it?
14:26
You're like,
14:27
It's lonely.
14:28
Hello, Red Flag,
14:31
I didn't mean to say that.
14:32
You married me for my money.
14:33
Yeah, I did.
14:34
I mean, what assets are you interested in?
14:37
Yeah, yeah.
14:40
So this isn't a side from this.
14:42
We have two episodes on prenups,
14:44
which if you are interested in learning more about this,
14:46
I would highly recommend listening to
14:48
raise in the curve episode 57,
14:51
everything you need to know about prenups
14:53
and raise in the curve 72 is the power of the prenup
14:56
and the cost of what happened with Kevin Costner,
14:58
which is a he's a famous guy.
15:01
He's a famous actor from like Livingstone or Yellowstone
15:04
or something and Livingstone law.
15:06
Everyone's got his hands are going to be like,
15:07
Oh, dear God.
15:09
But it's a really,
15:10
like it's a sad life example of when something
15:14
was written far too long ago.
15:17
It wasn't amended and then the wife, unfortunately,
15:19
got like really shafted.
15:22
So definitely worth brushing up in that space
15:25
if you don't know much about prenups
15:26
or how like contracting agreements work.
15:28
But it's just like getting into,
15:30
it's a business deal.
15:31
If you're having a transaction with someone,
15:33
get it in writing.
15:34
If you and I bought a house soft,
15:36
we'd get it in writing.
15:37
If me and my partner bought a house,
15:38
we'd get it in writing.
15:39
And it just removes all of that hatred or frustration
15:44
or negativity.
15:44
It's like, well, this is what the agreement says
15:46
is what we've decided.
15:48
And you can make peace and move on
15:49
if things don't end up going the right way.
15:52
I just think it's, yeah, kind of a no-brainer.
15:54
But like you said in the book,
15:56
it can be a prickly conversation to have.
15:58
And so how did you approach that conversation initially
16:02
in terms of having those conversations?
16:04
Is it kind of you start off small?
16:06
I don't even get sexy.
16:07
Yeah.
16:08
Should we get make it and do role play
16:10
and then have those chats?
16:11
Or what I'm going to tell you is it actually,
16:14
it actually is really sexy.
16:16
It's really intimate when you do it well.
16:18
You just need to, I guess, be aware
16:21
that both of you are going to have had
16:23
several experiences in your life.
16:25
These experiences are both conscious and unconscious
16:28
and they inform the way that you behave with money.
16:31
Not everyone is good at discussing money from the get-go,
16:35
especially when there's a romantic attachment
16:37
to what's taking place.
16:39
So there's a lot of emotions involved.
16:42
So a really good starting point is just to get a sense
16:45
of what your partners early experiences with money were
16:49
and how they fit in with your experiences with money.
16:51
The other thing that I would say is taking the focus off money
16:55
and talking about hopes and dreams and aspirations
16:59
and what you want to achieve together and setting goals.
17:02
Now, if you're just dating,
17:04
that might be thinking about,
17:06
do we save up for a trip to Thailand together?
17:09
If you're more established to the conversation becomes
17:12
about, are we going to buy a house?
17:14
Are we investing?
17:16
How are we planning for our future together?
17:18
It becomes more complex naturally as time goes on.
17:21
But if in the beginning you're just talking about
17:24
the compatible stuff that works for you,
17:27
do we both want to go in the same direction
17:29
and how are we going to achieve that together?
17:31
That can be a really exciting conversation.
17:33
Values are actually a huge part of these conversations.
17:37
So what you're discussing when you talk about hopes and dreams,
17:41
if one person is saying,
17:42
it's really important to me that I own a home one day
17:45
and the other person is saying,
17:47
well, actually, I just want to travel the world
17:49
and live as a digital nomad
17:51
and these are all the things that I want to do.
17:54
They are conflicting values.
17:56
They can conflicting personal values
17:59
and they end up showing up in your finances.
18:02
So if you don't know whether your values
18:05
are conflicting or competing,
18:08
you are going to have potentially some challenges down the track.
18:11
I know there was a long period of time
18:13
where I felt a great deal of shame and anxiety
18:15
attached to where I was financially.
18:17
So making sure you're approaching these conversations
18:20
with empathy and kindness is really important.
18:22
If you're in a loving relationship,
18:25
you need to do this gently and respectfully.
18:27
Do you know what's so gnarly?
18:29
I'm thinking back to this into, oh my God,
18:32
I don't even know if I should say this.
18:34
I went on a couple of dates with this guy in Sydney
18:37
who was actually really awesome.
18:40
We got along so well,
18:42
had really similar sense of humour.
18:44
He was super cute.
18:46
Like it was a real vibe.
18:48
But every time we would go on a day,
18:51
I would find myself awkwardly paying for something.
18:55
I don't know, okay, what happened?
18:56
The very first date that we went on,
18:58
it was super casual.
19:00
We went across the road and got takeaways.
19:02
And he turned to me and he goes,
19:05
do you want to just transfer me half later?
19:07
And I thought, not that hot, not that cute actually.
19:11
And then I was like, oh yeah, of course, totally fine.
19:14
But then it kind of kept coming up.
19:16
Every time we would hang out like I remember,
19:18
we'd gone out one night,
19:19
he'd stayed at my house and then we went to a cafe
19:20
the next morning.
19:21
I got like a tumeric blotting,
19:23
because I was in my Bondi Health Girl era.
19:26
And then he got a full blonde breakfast.
19:30
And we got to pay.
19:31
And I ended up just like paying for it all.
19:33
And I was like, this is really silly.
19:35
And then I like had to drop him home.
19:37
And I just ended up feeling a bit achy.
19:38
Like I felt quite gross about the situation,
19:40
kind of like I was being used.
19:42
It's hard to explain.
19:43
But like it felt uncomfortable around money.
19:46
And that was the only thing that I felt kind of uncomfortable
19:48
about.
19:49
And I just sort of phased him out.
19:51
I didn't communicate properly,
19:52
because I didn't really know how to broach that conversation
19:56
or it felt too early to bring it up.
19:59
Yeah, I don't know.
20:00
It was one of those times where I look back on it.
20:01
I think I wonder if I'd approach that
20:03
with a bit more maturity and like said something at the time.
20:06
Like, hey, are you trying to not spend money at the moment?
20:08
And if that's the case, like,
20:10
we don't have to go out or we could do something else
20:12
or maybe things would have been different.
20:15
Absolutely.
20:16
I think the core of any good relationship
20:20
is communication.
20:22
And when I was writing this book, every chapter,
20:24
I put in questions at the end of each chapter,
20:27
things that you can ask each other, things you can discuss.
20:29
Because if you get really good at communicating,
20:32
you are able to address some of those situations
20:35
where there's a bit of ambiguity,
20:37
and you're not sure where the behavior is coming from.
20:39
And it gives you an opportunity to improve
20:41
and work out exactly what's going on with the other person.
20:45
Do you know what I actually did end up?
20:46
He came back to me and was like, hey, I just wanted to know,
20:49
like, basically ask me why I ghosted him.
20:52
And I sat with it for a while and I thought,
20:56
you know what, I'm actually going to be honest here.
20:59
So I said to him, I was like, I just felt like
21:01
we were a little bit misled with money stuff
21:04
because I was not in a saving, investing mindset.
21:07
I had no financial plan.
21:09
There was no consciousness around the way I was spending my money.
21:11
I was like, just living life and loving it.
21:14
Sorry, that sounds so cringe.
21:15
But genuinely, I was just like, let's go for breakfast.
21:17
Let's go do this thing.
21:19
I was having no kind of like four-star.
21:21
You're in your training.
21:22
You're loving your best life.
21:24
I feel so bad about this now.
21:26
I was, I'm pretty sure I just told him I thought he was stingy
21:29
and that it just was uncomfortable for me.
21:32
Isn't that terrible?
21:34
It's really hard when you're dating,
21:36
when you've only just started dating
21:38
and there's something misaligned around, you know,
21:41
what you're doing with your money.
21:43
That's a really difficult conversation to bring up.
21:46
And obviously, it's going to depend on how each individual
21:49
wants to approach it.
21:50
But perhaps he wasn't stingy.
21:52
Perhaps he wasn't stingy because he wasn't even,
21:56
but that doesn't make it okay for him to just sit back
21:58
and expect you to shout breakfast.
22:00
Or it's too to understand, you know,
22:02
he should discuss that with you.
22:04
I mean, but the thing is, we've been on three days,
22:06
like at what point is that even something you bring up?
22:08
Yeah.
22:09
Like it's pretty awkward.
22:11
I mean, honestly, I think we'd had sex once at this point.
22:14
It wasn't like we were in a relationship.
22:16
Do you know what I mean?
22:17
And that's absolutely the challenge.
22:18
So in a situation where you're dating early on,
22:22
I appreciate that you're probably not going to turn around
22:25
and say, can you please outlay your entire financial situation?
22:30
I also feel like anyone that dates us now,
22:33
so no, true.
22:34
Pretty well-reiled again.
22:35
Like you're going to have money just,
22:37
money conversations early on.
22:39
So true.
22:41
Oh, absolutely.
22:43
I'll probably just come to the first date
22:44
with like the bank account and be like, look,
22:46
let's just lay it out.
22:49
Just bite the bullet, you know?
22:50
Just like conversation started from day one.
22:53
Yeah, exactly.
22:54
I would love to know, when you wrote the book,
22:57
you obviously shared a lot of personal financial intimacy,
23:01
let's call it, between you and Sam, your husband.
23:05
The conversations you had, the situation you were in,
23:08
was that firstly uncomfortable for him
23:11
to, or was he fine like coming to terms with that being
23:14
aired with the world?
23:16
And secondly, do you in the book talk about anything
23:19
that comes up where you're like, oh,
23:20
but what believe about his answer with that?
23:22
And you know, it had to deal with it.
23:24
So there's a couple of things to say there.
23:27
First, I had written two personal finance books
23:29
before we got together, so he was aware of that
23:32
and he knew that this was a subject
23:34
that I was passionate about writing about.
23:35
When I first had the idea, I said to him,
23:38
look, here's something that I want to write about.
23:40
I want to write about couples and money.
23:42
You know, I want to put my money where my mouth is
23:45
and I want to share our story.
23:47
Are you okay with that?
23:48
And he said, yes, absolutely.
23:50
I understand why you want to give me that.
23:52
Green thing, it's such a big green flag.
23:55
And he was really supportive.
23:56
And he understood that sharing our story
23:59
wasn't just about sharing our story.
24:01
It was showing other people what a good experience looks like,
24:04
what a bad experience looks like,
24:06
how you learn from a challenging experience.
24:08
There's one chapter in the book about couples
24:10
and farting about money.
24:12
And I said to him, I need to put a fart in the book.
24:15
This is the fight that I'm going to put in the book.
24:18
Are you okay with this?
24:19
And he said, yes, because I understand
24:21
why you're putting it in the book.
24:22
Oh my God.
24:23
You can't do that.
24:24
I really need to know what the fight was about.
24:26
So we had a fight.
24:29
It was a fight over a blanket.
24:31
It was initially over a blanket,
24:32
where we were renovating our house.
24:33
We'd had our floors sanded and polished.
24:35
And so we'd moved all of our furniture out of the room
24:38
and when we put all of the furniture back in the room,
24:40
I put my blanket on the couch
24:43
and I didn't put Sam's blanket back on the couch.
24:48
That sounds ridiculous,
24:49
but because Sam had moved into a property that I'd bought,
24:53
his blanket was actually one of the few things
24:56
in the room that belonged to him.
24:57
Oh my God.
24:58
This is so funny because I lived together
24:59
and I remember moving something
25:01
and she was like, what are you doing?
25:05
It's really, really funny.
25:06
The idea of the decorative stuff being so important to people.
25:10
But I think the important thing is that meaning behind it.
25:14
It wasn't about the decorative stuff.
25:15
It was about him feeling equal
25:18
and it was about both of us feeling equal.
25:20
So actually that fight ended up being a catalyst for us
25:24
going and looking at our banking
25:26
and making sure we both had appropriate access to staff
25:29
and making sure we were getting to a point
25:31
where our financial situation
25:33
with regard to the house was fair.
25:35
So it started as a fight about a blanket
25:37
but it ended up being much bigger than that.
25:40
And we dealt with it probably less than ideally in the moment,
25:44
but we certainly improved from there
25:47
with respect to making sure that we were
25:50
both feeling equal in our relationship.
25:52
I remember when I renovated my house
25:55
and I was living in it with my ex-boyfriend, I owned the house
25:57
and he didn't and so he was living
26:01
and essentially in my house and paying rent.
26:03
And when it came to renovate, I remember asking him,
26:06
I was like, what kind of tiles do you think
26:09
we should put in the bathroom?
26:11
And he was like, I don't mind whatever tiles you want.
26:14
And that just set off like for him, he was like,
26:17
well, it's your house, it's your bathroom you choose.
26:20
For me, it was, oh, you don't see a future with me
26:23
because you're not willing to choose tiles
26:25
that we're both going to enjoy
26:27
because for me it was our bathroom.
26:30
And so it's kind of the blanket scenario.
26:32
It started this whole conversation of,
26:34
okay, you don't see this as our house.
26:37
You see it as my house.
26:39
And why do we,
26:40
it's like subliminal, underlying,
26:42
it's like why do you see it as our house?
26:44
And so it starts this conversation
26:46
and long before we ended up together,
26:49
but that was a conversation for another day.
26:52
But yeah, it is subliminal messaging
26:55
and it's a really good example
26:57
of not having the conversation
26:59
and it coming out of the tiles.
27:01
I mean, remember the painting saga
27:03
when he was sitting outside
27:04
on the deck reading his book,
27:05
well, it was like in her dirty overalls
27:07
trying to paint the spare room.
27:08
And she was like, hope you're having a good Sunday day.
27:11
But again, it was me not communicating.
27:13
It was him not communicating.
27:14
I saw this as our house.
27:15
He saw it as my house.
27:18
So I didn't not want to input
27:19
but didn't want to, I guess, be overriding my decisions
27:23
because it was my house
27:25
and I should be making decisions.
27:26
So there was just such a miscommunication.
27:27
And I think, yeah, it's just,
27:31
I can't stress enough having a good communication
27:33
in a relationship, particularly around money.
27:36
Speaking of, should we just look at Vexmo for a second?
27:38
Let's just zoom on and so Vex, newly in a relationship.
27:43
What money conversations have you had?
27:45
Have you had any?
27:46
And do you need Nicole's help for any roleplay?
27:49
I can pretend to be flower man.
27:51
We can look at you and make the money in the bud.
27:55
No, we have heard a lot of money conversations
27:58
and I kind of agree if there was any hesitance
28:02
to talking about money
28:03
that would be a huge red flag for me now
28:05
and the fact that he didn't feel uncomfortable,
28:08
I like to think I created a safe space
28:11
for him not to feel uncomfortable.
28:13
Yeah, I just think we kind of made it not a big deal.
28:16
And then once he was open on his about his financial situation,
28:19
I was open on his about mine
28:21
and it was kind of like, he's got a house,
28:23
I've got a house with both got different careers,
28:27
I guess things we've paid for previously,
28:29
but we've both got very aligned values in our future
28:34
and what we kind of want to achieve.
28:36
But honestly, I cannot stress enough
28:38
having this conversation.
28:39
It's almost like a weight off your shoulders.
28:41
You're like, cool, okay.
28:42
Yeah.
28:43
I truly believe if you are prepared to talk openly
28:46
and freely about finances
28:49
and how they apply to your present and your future,
28:51
you are likely to have a far more fulfilling relationship
28:54
than if you're not having these conversations
28:56
because money affects every aspect of your relationship
29:00
and your future and your happiness and your security.
29:04
And the other thing I'd say though,
29:05
is that because we're talking a lot about couples here,
29:08
it's important to have these conversations
29:09
because you still couldn't want to do things for you.
29:12
Being in a relationship doesn't mean every aspect
29:15
of your finances and your relationship becomes intertwined.
29:18
It means working out whose individual goals
29:20
are important in this moment.
29:23
What your shared goals are,
29:25
how you're going to prioritize those goals
29:27
because you just can't do everything at the same time.
29:30
You can't do everything at once.
29:33
You can't have a wedding in a house
29:34
and a new car and an international holiday
29:36
unless you're incredibly fortunate.
29:38
So you're going to need to work out
29:40
how you're going to pay for things
29:42
and you're going to need to work that out
29:45
at a reasonable point in your relationship
29:47
and not on the first date necessarily
29:49
but not too far down the track.
29:51
And then your book,
29:52
you talk about these couple goals, chickens
29:55
and they're at the end of each chapter
29:57
and it's to help facilitate those conversations
30:00
with your partner.
30:01
Can you give us some examples of these chickens
30:04
and kind of explain how they can help couples
30:08
to navigate these conversations?
30:10
Yeah, absolutely.
30:11
So it depends on where you're asking the relationship
30:14
and through the book I start with early staff around.
30:19
What was your experience of money with in childhood?
30:23
What's your approach to spending and saving
30:26
as you inevitably progress in your relationship?
30:29
The questions in the couple goals,
30:31
check-ins become more difficult.
30:34
They become things like,
30:35
do we have adequate insurance?
30:37
Do we have a will in place?
30:39
And if not, when are we going to do that?
30:41
If we split up how are we going to manage life
30:46
with our children?
30:47
There are really, really difficult conversation starters
30:50
in there and that's intentional and it's important
30:53
because you're going to be much better off
30:56
in the event that things don't work out
30:58
if you've had difficult conversations.
31:00
One thing I also wanted to ask,
31:01
we've talked a lot about having those conversations
31:03
early in a relationship
31:05
and making sure that you're both comfortable
31:08
having those conversations and there's no red flags.
31:11
What about if someone's been in a relationship
31:13
for a long time and didn't know how important
31:17
having these money conversations were
31:18
and now wants to have those conversations with their partner?
31:21
What do you suggest in that sense without?
31:24
Because you're quite far down the track
31:26
in terms of the relationship.
31:27
So you know doubt you might have a family,
31:29
you might have large assets like a property.
31:32
How do you navigate those conversations
31:33
kind of after the facts?
31:35
Look, if it's not something that you've ever discussed before
31:38
and you're trying to work out your financial life,
31:41
the land, particularly if you're starting to look towards retirement.
31:46
One thing that I would say and one thing
31:47
that was really beneficial for us
31:49
is we actually went and sought professional financial advice
31:52
and that was really useful for us
31:54
because even though it's financial advice,
31:56
for us it felt like counseling.
31:58
It was an opportunity for both of us to sit in a room
32:01
with a third party talking about what we wanted to achieve,
32:04
talking about our goals
32:05
and working out realistically how we were going to manage everything
32:09
that we wanted to achieve.
32:12
You hear your partner differently
32:13
when there's someone else in the room
32:14
and having a professional guide that conversation
32:17
means you don't go around in circles.
32:19
Now I know not everyone can necessarily access
32:22
bespoke financial advice,
32:24
but even talking to an accountant or a tax agent
32:26
or a people who can just help you understand, you know,
32:31
where you are now and some things that you may need to consider
32:34
will help you to have these conversations.
32:36
But if you're struggling to have that conversation
32:39
one-on-one with your partner,
32:41
if your partner is open to it and hopefully they are,
32:43
I would certainly suggest going to talk to a professional.
32:46
Or you could buy Nicole's new book.
32:49
Oh, yes.
32:50
That involves building a strong financial future
32:53
and an even better relationship, which is out now, right?
32:56
It is out now.
32:57
And is this a global,
32:58
can people get an Australian New Zealand, the UK?
33:00
Definitely available in Australia New Zealand
33:03
and also available to purchase online.
33:06
So I believe if you're in the UK,
33:07
you should be able to have it shipped over to you.
33:10
I would jump on booktopia.com.au
33:13
and see whether they can facilitate that for you.
33:15
Hey Nicole, thank you so much for coming on the podcast
33:19
and also just for sharing so much of no downloads in the book
33:22
and we obviously would like people to purchase,
33:24
but thank you for sharing such a massive amount of it.
33:28
My pleasure, thanks Sophie.
33:29
Thanks, Vic.
33:30
I hope it helps lots of other couples.
33:33
Thank you so much for listening to Raising the Curve.
33:36
These conversations are designed to teach you everything
33:38
that you need to know to be better with your money.
33:40
From saving, to investing,
33:42
to talking to your friends about your salaries.
33:44
And if you liked what you heard, we would love it.
33:47
If you could hit subscribe button, please.
33:49
Yes, please.
33:49
Better yet, leave a review.
33:51
It'll only take five seconds
33:53
and it would really make our week, our year, our month.
33:56
Okay, lots of love. See you soon. Bye.