Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 113: I'm Right And You're Wrong

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Ep. 113: I'm Right And You're Wrong · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me Eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything, alright, So right off the bat, before
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: we even introduce everyone, Jason Phelps, I'm gonna we're gonna build,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: We're we're gonna create an elaborate We're gonna create a scenario. Okay, okay,
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: and you're gonna respond to the scenario, like like how
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: you would suggest people to respond to the scenario? All right? Now?
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Who um, who can do like a pretty convincing gobbl noise? Oh? Mark? Yeah?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon, going me a sample for you? Yeah? Let
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: me yea, let me let me Okay, So you guys,
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: you know how you know when when you get a
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: couple of glars gobbling over each other, and then who
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: can be an angry hen? I'll go, I'll go angry.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Hen You're gonna be a You're gonna be you're the
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: boss gobbler, marks them. We haven't even got to do
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: get out yet, Okay, marks the boss gobler. And Remy's
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: like the guybler always tries to gobble over the boss gobler. Okay,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and we need a angry hen. I can't do it now?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Can anyone do an angry hen who's doing that? Oh? No,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: aid of yeah, but I want her like angry. Okay,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: So okay, So here you are. I'm gonna paint the
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: scenario for you. All right, Okay, it's Jason Phelps Felts
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: game calls. You've been making a lot of calls. I
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: have just like our dudes buying turkey calls right now
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: or did they already buy them? They are still right
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: up to the last day, right up for the last
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: week buying. There's still guys like now that it's opening
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: day tomorrow. But the typical responses, Hey, if I ordered
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the day, can you get him out tomorrow? And when
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: they beat at me by the next day, can you
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: have my can you have to my camps up? Yeah? No,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: it's okay. So here you are. It's dark, okay, and
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: and uh you're a hundred fifty yards away, and here's
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: what's happening. Okay, So that's what's going on. Okay. So
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: we're gonna do real soft tree ELPs if they're still
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: on the tree. So this is so okay. So so
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: you're you're calculating they're up in the roost and you're
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: gonna this is how you're gonna do it. And no, Paul,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: it's not gonna be a lot. You know, drag goes out. Well,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: these galblers are low t because normal goblins would have
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: been all over that. Yeah. So if my calling is
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: that bad that they won't even respond out of the
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: root to my to my TREEO. Um, so that's your TREEO?
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Really quiet? Four to five yelps? And what are you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: think of when you think in the trio, I'm just
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: letting him know. Ideally I'm still on the tree as
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: a hen. You know, they they they're pretty good at pinpointing.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: But I'm trying to let them know there is a
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: you know, a hen over in that tree, and say trio.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: When you say trio, you're saying that, not that you're
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: yelping to them in the tree, but you're in your
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: tree too. Still on my tree, I haven't flown down yet,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: so I'm trying to paint that picture. You may, they
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: usually roost next to some other hands. They knows it
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: for sure, thing, But I want to let him know, Hey,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: there's another hen that's over here. Okay, hit me with
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the tree. Help again. And so by their instant response,
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I know they just heard that, and so I may
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: not get really aggressive. I might do. That's enough, um,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: just to just to acknowledge that, because I'm getting to
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: a part point in my life where I feel like,
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: if I was better at mass, I would figure if
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: he made no noise at all, What are the knowing
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: that it's a three sixty degree circle around the gobblers tree?
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: What are the odds that he's just gonna walk past
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: you anyway? And it changes the farther out you get.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I feel, yeah, it would be a good math question
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: because I feel like I have like I feel like,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: as much as you think you're gonna call gobblers off
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: the roost, it probably works about as many times? Is
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: what the odds are that he's gonna walk through year
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: five degree band? Yeah, I'm gonna say, I'm I'm pretty
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: good at turkey off the roost math, and it's usually
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: zero times, like fow tries, so zero percent that thing.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: No matter what, I've never still to this day killed
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the turkey off the roost. Yeah, I've been there when
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: it's happened, but many But then I feel like, well, yeah, eventually,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: eventually it makes sense that he'll leave the roost and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: when he has, and he'll pick the spoke of the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: wheel that I happen to be sitting up. And that's
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the times. But now, so who is the angry hen? Yeah?
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, okay, so now then we hit you with
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: this scenario now, and then i'nna hitt you with another scenario.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: So here's the scenario. Um, you're angry handing it. I
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: can do that too, I guess. Okay, So so rem
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: hit your go well, hit your tree out, and Mark
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: hits your angry hand. Okay, now what are you thinking?
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Has your thought changed? So he did he call it before?
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: He called it before I did my tree up, so
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: he never acknowledged me. I may tree up again and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: see if I can get him to spark off on that. Yet,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: let's try. I just want him to all right, and
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: then I'll probably be quiet. I want him to come,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: even though the angry hand is now angry. Yeah, I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: mean you don't want to. They're typically fairly quiet in
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the tree, so you don't want to overdo it. Why
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: you're still on the tree and it's too dark to
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: pitch down, so you're just trying to He's acknowledged me
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: now and then I'm gonna be quiet until they do
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: heat up the right before they fly down, so we
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: may get back in the game at that point. Yeah,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: because then they hit the ground and then so and
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: so often never make a peep because I mean, they
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: made eye contact, they know what they're after. They don't
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: need to communicate at that point, and so they seem
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: to kind of they get pretty active right before they
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: pitched down, and then kind of go silent there for
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit, and then they'll pick back up. And
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hit you with a notice scenario, and this
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: is the one that gives me a little chub. So
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: all this happens and then nothing comes of it, and
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: then you kind of wander around the woods all morning
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: and around ten am, okay, which is when a lot
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: of turkeys get shot, at least the ones I shoot
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: at around ten am. All of a sudden, Now what
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: are you thinking? So before I make a sound, I
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: want to get as close as close as the terrain
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: and the vegetation will allow, before I make a peep.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: He's just he's just giving up his location. I want
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to be as silent as I can. I'll get as
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: close as it lets me and then I'll sit down
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: and I'm going because he's been out love making the
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: hands all morning, they all drift off and so before
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that happens. Also, what's going on in my head is
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: this thing just let off a beagle in the middle
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of the day by himself. He's probably looking for hens
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: at that point you all the hens went into lay
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: um and so I'm already thinking this is a you know,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: not a for sure thing, but my odds are very
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: very high at that bird. As you mentioned, you're you're
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: killing them at tend to to noon um, very very
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: high in that tend to two window um when they gobble.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go get set up and I'm gonna
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: go to my seven to nine note you know, yelp,
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: And if I can only bring one call in the woods,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: it would be this, your typical yelp. So this is
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: what you're hitting the middle of the day, hot gabbler yep.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: So we'll go sit down, little and so we'll react
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to that gobble thing a little bit, you know, is
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: if he gobbles all, maybe try to turn the temperature
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: up um with the yelps, and then if he becomes disinterested,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: we'll maybe give it five ten minutes and then go back.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not really good at be impatient. I say five
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: to ten, which is probably like thirty seconds, and then
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I'll call again. Okay, so now here he is and
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: he shuts up, but you can hear him who knows
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: how to make a spit and it's spitting and drum
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and I could do this. It's uh yeah. So you're
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: hearing that and it just drags on. You're like, what
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: are you going on? Then? What are you gonna hit
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: him with? Then we we'll switch the real subtle um clucks, purrs,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: maybe you know, even scratching the ground next to me.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: A lot of times when I set up, I'll try
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: to bring some brush or some leaves next to me.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: We'll we'll scratch around and that just real subtle noise.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: At that time, they can try to get him to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the pull in that last twenty or thirty yards or
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: whatever it may be, because you're trying to sound like
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: a hand scratch that that purr and clucks, that real
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: content sound, and so you don't want to necessarily want
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: to blow him out anymore with that louder yelp or
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: you know, excited cackles. You're just really trying to get
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: him that last little bit or what we did in
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: some instances. A lot of times we'll play this cat
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: and mouse where you change setups and you just won't
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: come close. Sure, we may give a little call and
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: then we just go silent and like all right, well,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: you know there's a tricky here. You get to the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: you know it's in your hands now. So it hit
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: us with some of those more subtle tones tones tunes
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: that and as I mentioned the mark earlier, that that
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: read's not meant to purr. It's more of a that
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: yelper read. But you know, if if I had the
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: right read and we do some pern just as real
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: light subtle clucks um and just real quiet sounds. Yeah,
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: the first time I ever hunted with a really good
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: turkey caller that he never did you know we were.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: This is in South Carolina, which is like well known
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: for having wildly kg turkeys, and dude, he never ripped out.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: Like everything he would do was just like just he's
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: so subtle, little teensy noises, you know, when you're on
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the woods and hear something to do with a box call. Right.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: But then near day I was on YouTube and if
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: there's a video of a real live hen who full
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: balls out yelps sixty two times in a row. If
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you were in the woods and heard that, you think
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: that is some idiot over there to the box call
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: going crazy on a box. So yeah, real subtle sounds
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: when they're in tight If you can hear spinning drum
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and can't see the bird yet, um quiet, Yeah, not
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: last thing on turkeys. A couple of years ago, hunting
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: in California, I was doing that, calling back and forth
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to a gobbler gobbling. I'm calling, gobl, I'm calling, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: it just drags on and evenci I'm thinking to myself,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go over to a new spot and try
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: to call him to the next ridge. But in traveling
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: over there it takes a while, so I don't make
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: any noise for fifteen minutes to get to the next ridge.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: By the time I get to the next ridge, I
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: call and as some bitches standing right right left from
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: exactly because he eventually got curious there's no noise for
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: so long, he's like, what happened to We had such
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: a thing going, like what happened to her? So then
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I call and I'm like Oh, now he's gobbling right
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: from where I was sitting. So the I just shut up.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: In a while later, sure enough, here he's standing there.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I just got because he enjoys. I think he was
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: enjoying whatever bird version of enjoyment is. He was enjoying
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: that little deah the game. Yeah, um, so make a
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: big plug for make a big plug for Phelps game calls. Man,
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: not good at that stuff, but no, um so we've
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I'll do it. Let me take a stab at you.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: Let me take a stab at it. Um. In an
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: American elbow grease story where a guy pounding away making
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: high quality calls and making a nice good business cranking
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: away in his home builds a business up and makes
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: like phenomenal calls and insiders. No, the Phelps calls are right?
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: How's that? I love it? Now you do something like
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: that like this whole a promotion thing is just not
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: good with me. Um No, we well you want to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: plug someone else's called? No, you know, I think some
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: people you know, listen to your podcast of the story. Um,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: it's just been a lot of passion, and this whole
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: company has been driven by pass We wanted to build
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: the better mouse trap. Um, come up with the specific
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: sounds we were we were looking for, and UM, we're
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: pretty excited. You know, we've we've did very well with
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the Turkey calls. Majority our elk calls are our bread
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and butter still UM, but we're really excited as we
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: move into the next year. We've got a full Predator, lion,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: waterfell line, UM Deer call line. Everything's finally going to
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: be where I kind of envisioned it way back when
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: we started. So we're pretty excited to kind of get
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: out of that elk call rat UM Turkey call sprinkled in,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: but we'll have a full Turkey call line and UM
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: will be kind of a complete UM call company at
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: that point. So your phone call is the best, the
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: most effective black Bear call I've ever used, and spring
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: black Bears coming up. That's coming from Callahan and we'll
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: get around intros a minute. UM UH website, UM www,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: dot Phelps, Game Calls, dot com. UM we're you know,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: for everybody's on social media. We're very easy to get
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: ahold of UM contact UM, your messages, emails, all of
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that stuff is on the website and on social media.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Excellent man, Thanks coming out and doing Turkey primer. Yeah,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: we're gonna rush this episode into into into being so
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: that people can capitalize on that. All right, on the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: on those sweet sounds and sweet notes. Um, okay, it's
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a huge room full of people. Uh, as though dealing poker.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: We'll do intros. It's more like a small room full
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, small room full of lots lots of
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: people to brody strapping into a set. Good, Yeah, hit it,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: introduce yourself there you go here, I am b h
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: a rendezvous. How to drive ten hours north to uh
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to leave winter behind? It's all nice up here now,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: beautiful and down and you're part of the in your
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: neck of the woods. Almost died like five minutes from
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: my house driving yesterday was the snow. Yeah. Mark Kenyon
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: here from Michigan. Mark Kenyon, Wired to Hunt podcast. Yes, sir,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: we still have winter at home too. It's no good.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Remy Warren, Remy Warren, just hanging from Reno from Reno.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: You're on your honeymoon? Fijis it got colder for me?
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Ryan Callahan pH a Rendezvous podcasting first Light and uh
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Mark Boardman. Mark Boardman worked for Vortax Optics out of
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: good old Wisconsin, And yeah, enjoying the lovely weather we're
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: experiencing in Boise at the dh A rendevou. Okay, we're
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: gonna um, We're gonna cover a handful of things. But
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: first off, we got a mega correction, mega correction. Like
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: people were kind of irate, like this is one of
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: things that one of the biggest corrections, the biggest wrongs
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: we ever have had is I screwed up and was
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: reading how the how it's a it's a double layered
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: screw up. Keep explaining honest, yeah, let me let me,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: let me why why you're doing that. I'll sort of
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: set up the screw up. We were already discussing some
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: issues about baiting in Alabama, where in Alabama you've always
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: been allowed to um do supplemental feeding for deer, but
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: you couldn't bait for hunting purposes. So they came in
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and tried to clarify the distinction between supplemental feeding for
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: deer and hunting purposes. And once they spelled it out,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it seemed to have, according to some people, invited a
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: level of interpretation where it said, for instance, it can't
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: you know, it has to be a hundred yards away
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: from you, like you're if you're hunting, any bait has
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: to be more than a hundred yards away from you.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: It has to be out of sight from you from
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: a landscape feature. And a guy rode in to say, well,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: people are exploiting this now and in putting a bait
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: behind a big hay bale yards away and saying well,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: I can't see it, right, And it was causing this confusion,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: and that led to this other thing where the House
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: in Alabama, the state House voted to just outright legalized
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: baiting for deer and pigs. And we talked about how
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: that was a new law in Alabama, but in fact
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: not even kind of um, it was never made it
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: to vote in the Senate, right, and then it's not
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: a law. Break it down, Ny, And this is you
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: just broke it down. I don't know what else you
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: want me to add. It didn't make it so it's illegal.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Debate which I was so weird about, like the supplemental feeding,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: like I don't really understand that we should maybe looked
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: into that. But so I guess you can still do that.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: You can feed wildlife, right, which can't bait for the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: sake of hunting. And so this judge that rode In
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: was saying that they when they wrote this sort of
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: thing to help clarify, they actually muddy the waters in
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: the process by saying, like, oh well, if it's like
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: more than a hundred yards away and you can't see it,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: then it's not really a bait pile. But he said
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: that he and every other judge that has had to
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: rule on baiting cases, which they do, um that they
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: pretty much say, look, man, if if like, if if
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: at all you can like see where that deer or
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're hunting is in that zone
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of that bait pile, like, we're gonna call it baton.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: We're gonna call it what it is. If it's on
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the other side of a ridge from you, we're not
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: gonna call it baton, but a hay biale a hundred
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: yards away, which is what someone wrote to us to
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: say people do is clearly illegal, like not a natural
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: landscape feature. Um so does that? And that brings up
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: a quick question from Mark Kenyon. A guy wrote in
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: to ask this, and it makes me think of it
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: right now. Why is in the in the white tail world,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: you're a big white tail fella. They call me a
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: white tail guy. H you call me a white tail guy.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I guess yeah, you called yourself a white tail freak.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I think one time. So so Mark, like if you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: don't know it, like if you dig, if you dig
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: on white tails and just all things white tails. Marks, Uh.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Wired Hunt podcast is what you ought to be listening
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to because Marco's way beyond and we even get close
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: to when it comes to talking about white tails, which
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: is what you know. It's America's hunting this animal right.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: But a question that I would like you to take on,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Mark at Guy wrote in and say, why is in
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: some circles, why is bait bad? Food plots are not bad? Yeah,
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: that's something you've gotta have been asked a thousands. Yeah, yeah,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: it's a big thing. People talk. People that don't like
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: bait haters like to pose that question a lot because
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of consciensation people that don't like bait haters,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of there's a lot of people
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: that hate on people that use and those guys that
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: do bait. I like to say, well, you're a hypocrite
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: because you plant food plots, so you are changing the
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: landscape or doing something that is attracting deer away from
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: their natural patterns to a new place. So is it?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So where do you stand on this? Are you a
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: bait hater not a bait hater? But I'm not a
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: bait user. So I don't like debate, but my dad does.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: So whatever, more power to you can do whatever you
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: prefer to do. I would rather not, but I do
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: plant food plots because for me, that is um two things.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Number One, with a food plot, with a habitat improvement,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: you're putting in a whole There's a whole lot of
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: work and thought and effort going into that. So it
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: feels like you're, I don't know, going through some threshold
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: of like work put into something that I don't feel
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: like you achieved. The same was dumping a pile of corn.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Number two, You're Okay, that's not gonna resonate, that's not
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: gonna that's just just me. I'm not trying to prove
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: your point here. But um, but you're also improving the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: habitat you're by planning food plot, you're benefiting entire landscape,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: an entire ecosystem. You're doing something above and beyond just
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the sole purpose of shooting something. Once playing food plot
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: you're improving the situation for three d sixty five days
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: a year, for so many different animals, for so many
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: different things. You might take one life off that, etcetera.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So that might be another argument for the fact that
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: they're different. Um, but if you want to say that
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: you're changing something to bring deer in, and if that's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: the only thing you're looking at, then yeah, you could
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: say that food plots and baiting on the same You're
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: not hunting, just a natural, completely natural, unaltered pattern. What
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say is that, um, it's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a little bit different because the size, well that too
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: well from a disease perspective, if that's another thing you
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: want to talk about, Yeah, I thought you hit me
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, that's it. That's a good point. So
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: an issue with baiting that a lot of people talk
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: about is you put something in a very small concentrated
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: area that attracts a lot of deer to that same
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: very small concentrated area, there's a higher chance of disease
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: I only c w D, which is the big thing
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of course everyone's talking about. So because of that, a
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: lot of states of band baiting to try to reduce
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: the chance of that spread with a food plot. Some
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: people will say, well, it's the same thing with the
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: food plot. You're pulling deer into an area, But it's
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: just it's different. It's it's a much larger space. You're
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: gonna have deer congregate around natural food sources anyways, So
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: there's only so much you can do there. So if
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: it's even if it's a cord raker food plot, that's
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: still resembling a natural feeding environment versus a one yard
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: square section where you might have a pile of corn
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: where all these noses touching all the saliva. Do any
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: states come in? Is there any state that's band or
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: try to regulate food plots? No? Why? Why? What? What's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: up around? I feel like Montana addressed that, didn't they
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: If you if you plant specifically to harvest animals on
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it's based on intent, But I don't think you can
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: do that. Really could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: you can'ts of waterfall, Yeah, definitely, Like you couldn't grow corn,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: cut corn, and shoot ducks unless you have it agricultural
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: reason to do so. Yeah, we were talking about and
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: then we're talking about this not long ago that like
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: you couldn't grow corn pick it, scatter it on the ground, right,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: and hunt ducks. But in places you can grow corn
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: and leave it unpicked, but you can't knock it. And
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: it's like you can't knock it down. But it's possible
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: that you could grow it and never harvest it as
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: long as you don't knock it down and weird. Yeah,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: it's if if it if you planted it solely to
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: attract animals, then I don't think it would be legal
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: in Montana based on but I could be wrong. So
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that's I said, it's based on the agricultural reason. And
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: so like an agricultural reason could be I'm leaving that
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: stand of corn because corn prices have fallen, or the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: moisture level, the moisture content within the ear of corn
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: never got down to a harvestable percentage um, So there's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: reasons for again, Yeah, well screw up, just leave its
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: standing first, spending a bunch of gas to go out
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: there and cut the stuff down when I will when
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I will have no return on my investment. Now, mark, um,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: can you define food plot real quick? I guess a
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: general definition would be some type of crop planted with
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: the specific purpose of either attracting an animal to it
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and or supplementing nutrition. So that could be something like
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: clover or kale or rape or soybeans or corn or
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: when are we anything like that? Are you? Um? Are
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you sensitive when people bring up the comparison of food
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: plots debate? No, I don't care. I mean, I under
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I understand the argument. Um, it doesn't hold water from me,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: but I but even if it did, that's all right.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: You can you can choose to see it that way.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I'll I'll do my thing, you do yours. I got
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: an our white tail, do you thing for it? I
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: got another answer? Brody sketches, sketch this deal out. Uh So,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: last fall in Pennsylvania, a an archery hunter was he
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: was hunting public land, had a bunch of trail camera
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: setup was pretty familiar with do you already do you
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: already know what we're talking about? Really? Um um um?
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: It sounds like this guy's a pretty dedicated archery hunter,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: for for just from knowing you know what we've read
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: about it. But he's hunting public land trail cameras. He
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: puts an arrow in a pretty gigantic bug, especially considering
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: it was shot in Pennsylvania, which is like a heavily
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: hunted stage. Yeah, you could call it a big, huge
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: giant on public land in Pennsylvania. It's impressive and and
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Pennsylvania's seeing more big bucks because they went to antler
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: restriction a while back. But either way, he sticks an
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: arrow in this deer and does not find it. Um
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: it sounds like it may have been a questionable, questionable shot.
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: No one really knows. Either way. He doesn't find the deer,
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: and forty one days goes by and he finds eventually,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: you know, he kept looking for the buck, finds the
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: buck forty one days later, archery season has ended. He
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: may have found it during rifle season. I think he did.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: But he puts his tag on a desiccated carcass that
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: have been picked over by predator. Is the only thing
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: that's left as the spy and the skull and the
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: antlers tags, the tags the antlers, and eventually the word
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: gets out. The guy gets the buck measured. Pennsylvania Game
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and Fish Commission confirms it as the new state record
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: archery kill. What do you think about that? Mark Kenyan?
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: That's cool, really, But there's new state records and states
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: like every year. Now it seems like I can't keep tracking.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: That's not the question. Are you not getting the question?
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: What's the question? Archery kill? Is it a hunter killed
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: record versus a found forty one days later? There is
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: a place in the record. And I don't know. I'd
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: like to have this guy on the show. You would
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: love to get this guy on the show to talk
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: about this, because he's like a meteorite could have fallen
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: from the sky and that animal forty one days. But
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: then when do you set the where's the lie? I
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. Eight hours? Eight hours? No?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: I mean if it was up kill, like what killed it? Infection? Coyotes? Right?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm an interesting I have a similar situation
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that happened to me one of the best year I
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: ever shot. It was a poor shot, unfortunately, and then
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I found it was shot poor shot um. But I
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: thought he's gonna die. So I searched in search and
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: search and search and search, never found him until I
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: came back in February to shed hunt and there he
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: is right in his bedroom where he usually was. So
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: do you act like you found did you find it
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: or get it? So the way I would describe it
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: is that I killed him but I always say I
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: found him in February. So let's say that buck was
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: a big giant record buck. Yeah, would you turn it
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: in as a record buck or would you look at
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: it on your wall and be like, damn, I made
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: a bad shot on that buck. So that I I
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: found that I found. I found his skull and his spine,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: everything there. Got a salvage teg from the DNR, brought
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: it home, and then a friend of mine had an
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: extra cape. He said, hey, man, that this is a
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: buck that kind of like my Holy Field deal. I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: had hunted this buck for two or three years, knew
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: him really well, had been chasing this thing forever um
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: and this whole thing happened. My friends like, man, you
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: have so ch like wrapped motion wrapped up in that deer.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: You should mount him. I want to give you my cape.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: So I thought about it. I was like, I don't know,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: But in the end I decided to do it, and
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I put it on my wall so that every time
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: I walked past that thing, I always think about, never
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: make that mistake again, like never, don't screw up, practice more,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: compose yourself. Like every little thing I can second guest
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: or thought through that I might have been wrong, did
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: wrong on that evening. Now I rethink that's so it's
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: your it's your totem of self. Flag how's that word? Flag? Flagulation,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: self flagellation, flagulation, So open yourself. It's a powerful it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: a powerful representation of like what was a really painful
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: like moment. It was like a high when I got
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: that shot this day I've been after and then the
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: mistake and then uh so, let's say a dude walks
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: in and he's like, hey, you know what turns out
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: that'd be the that's the new state record. Would you say, well,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: uh no, I'd say I don't know. I don't I
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: don't know where that line is. I definitely wouldn't try
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: to promote as a state wreck. I wouldn't have like
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: turned it in to try to get as a state record. Now,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: this happened to my old man too, and it was
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: not I remember it was enough days where he hit
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: a deer out of his tree. It was a nice box,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: especially for like that that era in Michigan. He shot
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: a deer right below him and no exit wound. Weeks later,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: my brother Danny's walking out the rifle hunting finds the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: deer um and it hadn't gone far. It's like it's
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: still it was in the went into a corn field,
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: and we must have walked over a hundred times, walked
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: around it, even to the point where it was so
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: baffling how we could have missed it that we entertained
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: this idea that he had left and then days later
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: came back. But then when you look at the placement
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: of the era, that's just that's doesn't make sense. We
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: just missed him, right, And I don't know he found
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: it weeks later, but he entered it. He entered it
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: in if you went and looked his like commemorative box
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: of Michigan or whatever his name is there with that
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: tuck and all he did he took the head off.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: It had to go find a cape. I remember the Winner.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: We're out hunting rabbits. We dropped in to take a
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: look at that buck and there's a whole board in
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: the side of it from creators getting in there. And
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: I looked in there and found a possum. Denned up
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: in there, pulled him out by his tail and took
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: up I still have a picture of me holding that
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: possum up by his tail, so he entered that buck
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: in and not looking at it like when you're a
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: little kid, you don't know you know now looking I'm like, damn,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Man. You're like, you didn't really get him.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: You found It's like a thing you found, you didn't
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: get him. It's a really interesting question because you, I
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: guess it depends on the shot, Like if you know
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: that that shot killed that deer, But is is getting
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: him meaning that the killing of that deer in the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: the the recovering of it in a certain timespan, or
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: is that killing it? And I mean, and then to
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: your question, you don't know when that deer died, if
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it died the next day, or if it died then
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: and you just missed it, or if it died a
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: week later, but it was because of the wound. I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: hate I hate this whole conversation because the idea of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: wounding and deer in this being a long drawn off
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: processes is a horrible thing that's talk about. Yeah, but
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: the thing that happen, so I don't like exactly it
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen. It does happen, So what would do I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: want to go? Okay, so picture this scenario that that
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: you're the commander of the world, and as commander of
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: the world, it comes to you that you need to say, uh,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: we're gonna put a time limit on it. Yeah, I
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: would say seven days. Pat here, here's my thought. Can
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: you hear me? All right? Um? So I have a
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: couple of questions just to clarly, he's really going to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: decide on how he's so if this rood is the
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: resident expert, right, so this particular dear, maybe I missed this,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: But did that guy that shot that deer, like say,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: he shot that deer and killed that deer, right, but
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: he doesn't. I don't know how long the season is.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's too shorter a season for this happened. But
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: this could happen in Montana where if you if you
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: don't recover your dear. It's not illegal to shoot another
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: deer and any states, but it's it's I would consider
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: it unethical. But if that guy shot another deer in
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: that deer's place, so he gets up in the tree stand,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: he shoots that buck, he doesn't find it. In two days,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: he goes and find it, right, another buck walks by,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: arrows that buck punches his tag and puts it on
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: that deer or now I would say that guy can
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: claim it if he like the right thing, goes, I
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: killed that deer, he cuts his tag. He goes, I'm
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: gonna look until I find that deer. You know what
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I mean. If he was like diligent and goes, I'm
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: gonna look until I find that deer, it's like, all right,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: he made a bad shot. He reconciled that he cut
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: he that's his deer. He punched his tag on it.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Now he looks for it, and it took him six
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: weeks to do it. That really sucks. But he put
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: in the effort. Good on him, he knew he killed it.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That's his. But if he's like the next morning, oh,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: a little spiker walks by and he shoots it, punches
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: his tag on that, and then finds that deer later
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: exact the that's not the lad the former version happened.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: It was the form revers. I don't know if he
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: hunted anymore. I don't know if he kept I mean,
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: he was out during rifle season when he tagged it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: I believe, looking well, who knows. I'd love to have
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: this guy off. I mean, there's so many details he
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: can't clear up. But he you know, in order to
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: register this buck for a record, he had to put
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: a tag on it, and he tagged the skull basically.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: So yeah, he went above and beyond legal and ethical
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: obligations to find the thing. But if I was commander
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: of the world, it would be like, you gotta find
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: that thing in order to register. You gotta find it
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: in time to use the meat. That would be my
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: cut off. But I tend to agree. But again, let's
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: say you get a hit and you're like, man, not
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: a great hit. I'm gonna let it go overnight. It's
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: gonna get cool tonight. I'm gonna let it go over
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: tonight because I think that it's gonna give me a
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: better chance to find it than if I bump it.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And then you go out and Kyle's got so. So there,
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: here's a guy, he's got like a whole plan, he's
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: doing everything right. He goes out beyond his control. Kyleot's
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: got it. I would still say. I would say to
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: that too, I'm like, you got it, Yeah, you got
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the buckets your It's unfortunate that that happened. You were
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: probably aware that that was a risk. It probably rolled
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: through your mind based on everything you had going for you, um,
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: everything that you were dealing with, uh, your buck. Yeah,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: I take back my previous declaration as commander of the world.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: I like Brodie's better everybody. I want everyone to just
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: to just put a time stamp on it. I'm gonna
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: say as commander that I'm talking about God putting a
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: gun to your head and you saying, and he says,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: you have to tell me a time period forty eight hours.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: With great reluctance, I would say forty eight hours because
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: I do think that you know with that that meat
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: aspect fits into that in most cases, barring very warm weather,
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, various snaf foods. But so maybe
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: I'm just unfamiliar with Pennsylvania rules. Is it because it
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: was a bow? Because hoping, I mean, Boot and Crockett.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: Half the things in there. Most of the world records
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: are pick up skulls. That's explain what that explain? Record record.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Bighorn sheep was found on that island out in Flathead.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew. I mean that sheep was pretty much high
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: fence sheep. He's on this little island out in the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: lake and there's a million pictures of it, and then
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that sheep dies and then the state of Montana has
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the new world record. Yeah yeah those sheep. Yeah, so
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: now and then now and then a bear of black
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: barrel slim out there. There's a bunch of fruit trees
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: out there, and now and then a black burill swim
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: out there when the fruit trees are in blossom. So
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: imagine they do deal with some level of like stress.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: But you go out there, yeah, you just can go
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: out there and sort of almost walk up and you know, yeah,
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: so hang out with them. So I guess I was
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: like when I saw that that's the new world record,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well, is the Bronx Zoo gonna beat
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: that record next? Could? That's but that's that's the whole thing.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Is that hunter killed or is it found? And in Pennsylvania,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: like a lot of states and and Buona Crockett, they
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: have different categories, right, like hunter killed animals and picked
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: up animals, even sheds, right. So I think the question
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: everyone's got about this buck is was it hunter killed
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: or was it found? So my question, my answer to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that would be simple, when he walked out there, did
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: he find it? Yes, he found it? There you go,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: he would the guy. He would say that he found
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: it during rifles. He didn't recover it. He didn't recover
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: it during rifles. He's he found. You can't. Yeah, you
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: can't recover something months later you find I mean exactly
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: if you were to go missing in the adrad It's uh,
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: I was recovering chopped up cars. Okay, I'm sorry, can
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: you can you can? You hand Phelps your deal? So
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: just the argument of finding it, like we use blood,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: we use tracks, we use broken twigs. So he didn't
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: recover it, he found it. Like Remy said, there's there's
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: some key ingredients to finding a buck versus recovering a buck.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And I would say he definitely found it. But Jason
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Phelps and the whole thing, you had to put an hour,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: like you you were forced to put a time limit
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: on it or else you can get you know, killed
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours, but you have to look for it
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: an all daylight hours up until that point, Like there
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: needs to be some effort involved, like when we if
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: you want to make a bad shot, there needs be
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: some effort involved. So for two days, but you better
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: spend those two days looking for it. Martin Bourbon Oh man,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna back up here, because there's a lot of
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: twists and turns to this thing. So as they say,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: it starts to make its own gravy, that's exactly so
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: when he was so when he I'm gonna say, when
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: he found this buck, was he actively searching for it
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: or did he stumble upon it? That's why That's why
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Jason's point. Was he reading that sign, was he you know,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: going over there in his head like you know, like okay,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I think he might have bet it he was. He
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: had shot the thing, he knew it was potentially dead
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: in the area, and I think it was a continual
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: process of hoping he would eventually stumble across those antlers.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: So he wasn't in his hunter orange during the rifle season.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know all the details that you know, but yeah,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I mean he was continuing to look for it, um,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: But it's not It's not as if forty one late
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: days later he was thinking he was hunting that buck.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, And to your point, I mean,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, odds are right that that buck died as
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: a direct relationship to being hit with that arrow, but
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: also could have been who knows well there's so many
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: there's so many unknowns. Like you said, there's so many unknowns,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of time. Did somebody else put an
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: arrow in that deer as it watered by his stand
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: and he didn't find it too? You know? I mean, yeah,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: maybe caught a little e h D in the meantime,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's it's it's And I'm not
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: trying to take anything away from this guy. Man. I
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: would like, like I said, I would love that. I
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: would love to chat with him because I'm just curious
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: his perspective on it. I'm not like, I'm not like
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: dogging on the guy. What's the WEP just is a
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: really interesting situation. It's yeah, I mean, it's totally interesting topic.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Here's another one, motor perplexing one, and again Mark just
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: has this. Sorry, I'm sorry, but it comes down to
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. It's okay because white tails are the most
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: hunted species in North America, for the attention should be
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: on us this. I gotta tell your story. Someone someone
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: walked up to me yesterday and they said, so get this.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I was at a bar. This is someone telling you that. Yes,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: someone's telling me a story. So I'm speaking as the storyteller.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: The storyteller walks up to me and says, I was
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: at this bar for a b h a pint night,
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and uh, he saw me wearing this public landowner shirt.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: The guy walks up to me, and he's confused, who
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: are you being right now? I'm the storyteller. You're you?
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: No, No No, okay, I'll be you. I'm telling a story
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: of a guy telling me a story of a story.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: So it's confusing, but you you're me, okay. I am
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: the person that I just talked to you yesterday. Hey, Mark,
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: go ahead. I was at a point. I was at
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: a pint night in the up and this guy walked
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: up to me and he was he saw me wearing
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: my public landowner shirt and he says to me, hey, uh,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: you're wearing that public landowner shirt. It'd be really cool
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: if you could get Mark Kenyan to come up here
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: and talk about that kind of stuff, or if you
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: can't get him, maybe Steve Rinella Man. All right, they
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: got the ranking right. Yeah. It wasn't like when Remy
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: got to be the boss gobbler. I was like, that's
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: the first time that's ever been said. Okay, so all right,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: this is this is out of your comfort zone. But
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: it's just something I heard from Brody that you just said. Yeah, Brodie,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: he lay the groundwork again. Brodie, we're talking about last
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: night we talked about this is the most baffling. Okay,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: the other night, Brodie sends me an article and it's
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: a guy I don't want to talk about who he is.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: It's a guy griping about all right, it's so complicated.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: You can order because he's griping about um social media people. Okay,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: gear ambassador, gear ambassadors, how they ruin everything and they
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: like to take pictures of big, huge, giant trout. And
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: he knows the truth that they catch these big trout
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: when they're spawning. And Brodie, who's a guy catch released
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: trout fisherman, sends it to me annoyed about the perspective
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: on it. And Brody brings up to me, like, why
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: is it that the whole world everything they fish. Everyone's
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: always fishing the spawn. People travel great distances. This fish
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: steelhead when they're in the river spawning. You fish salmon
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: in the river spawning. People plan trips to fish bluegill
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: off the beds. You throw a jig into a bass bed.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Everyone fishes spawning fish, but all of a sudden, like
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: trout piarists have gone and said that this whole huge
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: history of people targeting fish when they congregate to spawn
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: is unethical if it's a brown trout. And you agree
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: with that, Oh no, I didn't. I thought that it
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: was an unethical practice, you know the way I was
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: saying supposedly, because I don't know. I'm just I just
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I'm learning this. So I just taught myself to fly
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: fish over the last few years. I've never really been
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: a big trout fisherm until just recently. I was telling
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: the crowd about this article I and so I was saying,
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: they were saying, this is supposed and I was looking
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: at you, like, right, I don't know. Yeah, I got
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: the impression that came out to me. I was like,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, is that the case? I have? No,
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: I have no clue, So reading that like I would,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I'm just fishing. I don't know, I don't get it.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Call him, please go ahead. Everybody's right and everybody's wrong. Okay,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, And we have certainly built up this hierarchy
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: of species that's nothing new. But there comes a point
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: where okay, So there's this river around here, it's called
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: the Lost tail Water Fishery below you know, below the dam,
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: and there comes a point where you cannot hardly walk
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: in that river, wade in that river without standing in
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: a red in a spawning bed. At the same time,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the you know, the water is eighteen inches deep and
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: you can see every single fish. I do not find
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: it ethical to then go fish for those fish because
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: you can you can drag him foul hook, he can
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: hook him in the back and drag him off that
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: bed or flawesome. Yeah, and then they'll turn around and
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: go right back to that bed and sit on it.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: So what's the problem. The problem is, it's I mean,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: it does not fishing. Okay, So when when a little kid,
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: if there's a down not catching. When the look kid
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: goes down to his mom's dock and there's a dozen
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: bluegill beds in knee eat water, and not only will
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: they feed, but they'll aggressively guard their nest, and he
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: lobs a worm into that collection of bluegill beds? Is
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: he is he being unethical? Let me come on, so
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I have a question. Yeah, I mean, and this is
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: the nature of this discussion, right, it's like, first of all,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the stuff that you Flatlanders do, I mean, who really cares? Right, right?
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: So like the crappie of the bluegill, the bass. For
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: some reason, we have us as a rocky Mountain West
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: society have decided that that stuff just doesn't matter as
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: much as our trout do. Um, and maybe that has
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: something to do with like recovering populations. But you can
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: talking about non native like rainbows and browns, like, first
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: of all, they're not disappearing anytime soon, and they don't
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: technically belong in any of these synthetics. The synthetics purely
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: synthetic fish. Uh yeah, but so look at the freaking
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: pike minnow right. The squaw fish, those I will not
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: mess with on the bed, completely native fish. There's a
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: bounty on their heads below the Baudeville Damnado. They're endangered.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: You can't like like you know, so it's all I
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: did not know that. Yeah, they're in Colorado. People got
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: chucking them on the bank wrote this article that gout
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: that we kind of all apparently read or got forwarded around.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Was referring to Brown's. Yes, that was import This is
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: where it makes more gravy like Steve says, well, how
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: it read to me was as much as much as
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: this guy was concerned with the ethics of ripped and
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: spawners off of a bed, he was more concerned with
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: dudes from out of state coming in and screwing up
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the fishery that he guides on. So it was like, well,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: I could have been out on that spawning bed making money, right.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: You know. The other the thing that I took away
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: from it though, was just the fact I thought the
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: point he was making was how people are putting ethics
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: or their crossing lines to try to get famous, Like
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: Instagram frightness. He was talking about how more and more
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: people are doing these huge photo shoots with every big
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: fish because they want that huge photo and they want
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: to be on the cover of whatever they want to
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: free pair of sunglasses or something. So you see people
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: staying around for two minutes holding the fish out of water,
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: or you see people in this case, he said that
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: they were going down a closed Stretcher river. They knew
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: it was closed, but they still went down and they
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: had to pass signs that said I was closed. I
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: don't remember why I was closed or anything. That's a
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: different story that's called poaching, so that he was making
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: that argument. I thought that people were doing things like
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: that to get famous. The one particular fishing question was caught.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, this guy did all kinds of illegal stuff,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: but there's like a greater picture of this, generally fishing
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: for spawning trout being like something you should go to health. See.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I thought that he was using that as the story
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: to illustrate the larger Yeah, well it's okay, one of
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: the most masterful writer in the world. So I feel
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: that he he's got a few axes to grind. He's
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: kind of in a grumpy mood. He doesn't like maybe
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: he's the I'm sure there's he's gonna hate this. It's
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: probably like a fair bit of jealousy involved a little bitterness, Okay,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: And you put all these ingredients together and you get
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: kind of a rant. And just as he's taking talking
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: about the influence of social media on fishing in an
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: example of that would be that that you would be
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: so audacious as to catch a spawning trout to up
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: your social media presence. Okay, as much as he's taking
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: that little iceolate example to prove a larger point, I'm
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: doing the same thing. He did when I'm plucking out.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: One portion of this is to say, like to declare
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: that you targeting a particular species of imported European fish
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: um during its spawn as being unethical. How how does
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: that relate to all of the fish that we all
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: sort of agree you do fish during the spawn and
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: has the gentleman that wrote that article, I'm presumably if
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: he's a fishing guide in whelming, he's a pretty seasoned angler.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Presumably he's been up to Alaska or BC and fish
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: to king in the river. There's there to lay his
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: eggs her eggs. Yes, the difference is, let's say you
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: have this catch and release fishery cat you then the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: fish come up and spawn, they're on their beds, they
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: get through the spawning process, but then they're guarding their
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: beds um and they're not eating, but they're doing that
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: aggressive behavior of knocking other fish off the beds or
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: and um. You know, and you're fishing eggs. Sometimes they're
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: trying to knock eggs off their bed other other fish's
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: eggs off their beds and um. There is a time
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: of year where there's eight of us in this room.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: We could walk up that river and all eight of
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: us could catch that exact same fish somehow, some way,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: because it's gonna go back to that bed and it's
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: gonna sit on that bed and it's gonna do his job.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: And you know, we could stress it out to the
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: point very easily where it's gonna die. So why would
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: that be allowed in this catching release fishery where the
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: point is to try to release them and let them
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: get caught again. But if you're out there fishing, presumably
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: not for those spawners. It's legal to be out there fishing,
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: and you're out fishing, not targeting those particular spawners, and
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: you're pointing at the dude who is But you're out
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: there fishing and you're catching pre spawned fish and you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: scoop up a female that hasn't spawned yet and she
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: spews a bunch of eggs out in the net. Who, Like,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: where do you draw the line? Like, if you don't
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: think you should be fishing for spawning fish, then advocate
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: for closing it all together, right, Like, nobody should be
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: out there in that case. It doesn't matter if you
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: catch them ten days before they spawn or when they're
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: on their bed. I don't I don't think that's wrong. Yeah,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I mean I think you are. You're correct? Um, yeah,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: why we do not do that? I do not know you.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know how. We used to target the spring bullheads.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: You know, bullheads like to spawn like spawning cavities, so
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: busted up sea walls hollow logs, and then they didn't
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: get inside and they turn around so their heads looking
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: out to defend the nest. We wouldn't even use a rod.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: You just go around and dingle, wrap some line around
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: your hand and dingle a little cleo against his face
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: and have him grab it. To the point we sometimes
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: dive down snorkeling mass dive down and in dingle it
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: in front of me. So that's like right now I'm
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: looking at being like, man, that was so unethical, But
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I just don't just not feeling it. Yeah, I'm not
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: feeling the guilt. I think if you're gonna try to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: eat the thing, fine, but if not, like I feel
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: like there's should It goes back to like that there's
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: a reasonable act, reasonable chance of failure when you eliminate
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: all those chances of failure by being like, okay, big fish,
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: ten inches of water, I can throw a rock in there.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: It's gonna run away, but it's gonna come right back
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to that the exact same spot. I can catch this fish,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Like one point, is it still fish? But maybe for
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: the guy who only gets to fish a few days
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: a year and he's got to get a lot of
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: social media, like you gotta make it happen here. I
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: gotta jump in here because I grew up like cal
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: did fishing pitching pitchfork and spawn and browns, I mean,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: trout fishing. You know, bass fishing wasn't a thing. And
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: maybe it's just regional because you just if I was
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: in a lake, right and there's a stream coming into
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: that lake, you'll see a hundred fishermen away from that.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: No one will be going and fishing those those fish
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: off their beds. It's like it's like, why don't you
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: just go So if a fish swims up stream, whyn't
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: you just go pick it up and then like go
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: take a picture with it? Like is that fishing? Yeah?
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I mean it's it's too easy. It takes out. You
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: might as well just go like buy your fish or
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: go like put them in a swimming pool, because those
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: trout aren't Like I don't know, but when I first
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: started bass fishing, I would never cast at a fish
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: that was on its bed. Ever, I didn't know that.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you just don't do that. We'd
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: go get leeches and lay them on the beds. Yeah,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: I mean now I do that because I understand that
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: that's how you fish bass. But I'm like, bass fishermen
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: must just like have they just don't care enough for
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: whatever it's different. They're so sturdy. Yeah, you like, trout
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: are very fragile. It's like my parents or I grew
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: up this small kind of man made private lake and
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: we stopped and you could just see that trout die fast.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: It's very hard for trout to exist. And especially when
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: you're talking in Montana, you're talking cutthroats or native fish.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: If you see that fish on the bed, you need
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: those fish to have their a fighting chance. Now, fishing
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: other places like pre spawn, most of the fish that
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: are on the bed, they're waiting for those eggs that
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: are laid a lot of those eggs have been fertilized,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: so though they already have that fertilization, they're already ready
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to hatch. There that further step from the fish that's
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: just out in a deep swimming around. They constantly produce eggs.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: So for the fish that gets in the net, spews
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: its eggs and you let it back go, she's gonna
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: have just so many eggs tomorrow. Yeah, that's my with
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: have you have you guys have red shadows on the
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: koy cock by the anthropologist Richard Kane Nelson. No, but
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I will say, salmon, they're going to die, so you
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: can just scoop them out of the river. I don't
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: care that. That's another part of this. It's another part
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: of this. I'm gonna throw it. I feel like I've
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: been living in a gray area with a million different caveats. Yeah,
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: I love to fish for trout. I'm gonna throw. I'm
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: gonna throw another twist in there that we're talking about
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: last night. So where we live in Wisconsin, we have
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: the ribs that dumping in Lake Michigan, which to my knowledge,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: by and large, the steel head that returned to those
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: rivers do not successfully spawn. And yet from an ethic standpoint,
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: many people say, I won't fish those I won't fish
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: to those fish that are on their reds, even though
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: it's an artificially supported fishery. Artificially supported fishery and those
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: fish aren't gonna successfully spawn. You've got those kind of
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: artificial fisheries all over the Great Lakes where it's like, yeah, man,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: we're pound these salmon and steelhead while they spawn, and
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: then the state stocks a little six inch molts and
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: it starts all over again. You know, So what do
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: you think of that? I mean, I just think it's interest.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. I mean I'm not really seeing
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: a from a from a resource standpoint, like yeah, I mean,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: I guess you could harassed that fish enough for two
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Remy's point. You know, if you caught it and stressed
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: it out to a point that it maybe it wouldn't
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: return to the lake, then you're you know, you're down
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: the fish, right. But I mean there's like, you know,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: oftentimes they'll be you know, three or four six fish
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: waiting in the bucket right behind those spawners that guys
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: are fishing too, and you know, ten minutes later that
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: fish could be pushing up on a red you know,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: right near in that same spot. So I just I
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: don't know, I just feel like it's a super gray area.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: And then to your point, like so all of a sudden,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: you're a kid, well of course I'll let a kid
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: do that. Well, I mean, just like every little thing
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: changes it, you know, I've seen it, like it gets
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: so bad in some places. We would go up and
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: fish the North Platte River in April when the rainbows
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: are spawning hard, and uh that the local guides there
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: would like if they saw you fishing two spawners, they're
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: just like scream at you. But then those same guys
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: there'd be like a hundred yards stretch of beds, and
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: those same guys will float over top of those fish
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: in their drift boat to knock them down into the
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: next hole, and then they'll get out and fish for
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: Why here, here's a kind of here's why I um.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: I want to get back to Richard Knelson real quick
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: in a minute, but here's why I brood over the
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: subject because, um, the foundations. Okay, the foundation of fishing
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: is it was a food acquisition activity, right, everyone accepts that, right.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: So it's like it comes out of a it comes
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: out of an interplay of life and death. And to
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: watch a segment, to watch a segment of fishing becomes
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: so civilized and so sort of mechanical, where you're um
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: fetishizing introduced non natives. You're establishing this whole other structure
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: of it's like wrong to utilize these resources in a
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: certain way. It's it's no longer like the goal of
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: like with hunting and fishing, the goals used to be
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: that you would study an animal, you would study it
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: and find its vulnerabilities and exploit those vulnerabilities to some extent.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: And timing issues, like people like to hunt bucks during
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: the rut because they don't act like they do normally.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: They lose some of their inhibitions, they travel more during
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: the daytime, they're more vulnerable, and that's like a whole
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: culture is built around exploiting this vulnerability. But all of
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: a sudden, to all of stodd get to the spot
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: where where like the segment of the fishing world becomes
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: so divorced from the foundational reality of what it is
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: that it that it sets up this whole other bizarre structure.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: I don't think it's wrong. I just look at it
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and I brood over it. It's puzzling to me. Uh.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: In Shadows on the Coya Kard, which is about the
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: coy Kon people, um Richard K. Nelson spent some time
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: with them, and they like to their den dig forbears.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: So their bear hunting method is you kind of get
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: a sense it's handed down generation generation, all the bear
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: denning locations, and knowing that a den doesn't usually get
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: used twice in a row, you kind of like keep
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: a track of what den might have a bear and
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: you go around the late spring and that's how you hunt.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: You dig bears out. It's unethical to just shoot a
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: bear walking around. Any person can do that. It takes
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: a special man to go in and drag a bear
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: up out of its den and kill it right an
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: So if you went ask most people, if you if
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: I went out to my buddies that I hunt with,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, what I do you know,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I go down, I just kill him right in the den. Right,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: You'd be skewered as the epitome of unethical behavior. So
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: it is, it's just like in certain cases it's so
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: arbitrary and there's so much baggage at play, absolutely, and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just thinking here, like how hypocritical I am? Right
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: because I will not fish to that fish that I
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: can see that I know is not going to move,
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: because like I'm just like, well, it's a foregone conclusion.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: But when the water is all murky and muddy, and
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: I've been telling you for years how much I've been
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: enjoying fishing for these smallmouth bass. Well, the reason they're
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: so susceptible to flies a flyer rod is because they've
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: moved up into their spawning area. But the difference is is,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm fishing in eight feet water that's murky,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: and I can't see them, and so for some reason,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: that's the mental difference for me is the you know,
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: my percentage of being successful is in this you know,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: reasonable area for me of you know, it's still a
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: game of chance and still feels sporting. Everyone has that though.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, Steve, if you like could have anything in
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: your tackle box, would dynamite be your number one choice?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: And you'd be like, every time I go fishing, I
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: just throw a stick of jelly in there and blow
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: them out of the water. You wouldn't do that, you know.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: It's because it's guaranteed. It's like fishing for a trout
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: on its bed is so guaranteed that it's not even sporting.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: It's like your sportsman because you do it in a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: certain way, whether it's legal or not. You've got. Everybody
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: has their own code of ethics, and it's like, Okay,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: what might be acceptable to one person isn't acceptable to another.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: But also what what's the intent behind it? If your
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: intent was I just want to picture a big fish
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: like dynamite, throw it in there, pull your big fish up,
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: take a picture. You're like, ah, whatever, man, I see
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. To kill that fish. But oh we
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: swam away. He's just in shock. He'll be all right.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: If I thought the question was that easy, I wouldn't
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: have brought it up. Yeah, it's it's one of the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: I don't even really know how I feel about it.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: That's a good point. It's a perfect topic for this
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: time of here. I mean, I really gotta call on
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: I think on Monday from a guy buddy of mine
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: in Montana. He's like, yeah, man, when you're coming up
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: land a giant, we're gonna go out there. He's like,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: I feel kind of bad fishing them on their heads,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: but everybody else is really Yeah, there's the conversation you
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: just had just had. Yeah, I mean it's that time
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: of here. When I live in the Great Lakes, we'd
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: fish steel heads starting Thanksgiving. Sometimes depending on the water levels,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: because so a lot of times you still had to
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: shoot up the rivers when the when the rain the
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: fall rains came and still had to push up. But
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: the whole time, the whole time, it was all just prelude.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: It was all prelude to the spawn mm hmm. And
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: sitting down there at dawn and it starts to get
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: light enough, you can start to see the reds, the cleaning,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: you know, the spawning beds. You can start to see
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: that golden clean area, and all of a sudden, that
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: gray shadow pulls across that. The feeling of like, dude, yes, yes, yes, yes,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: it is odd, right, the feeling you'd get no one's there,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: you got the spot and you see that, just that
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: little shadow come out on there and move away. Oh
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: my god, to have someone come and tell me that
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I was wrong. I'm not open to it. Uh Okay,
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: moving on real quick, Um, everybody's cool on that. Uh
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Mark again, Mark Kenyon, quick thing. I'm glad to have
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: you here. Your famous deer, your famous Holy Field deer
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: isn't dead. He's not dead. Okay, So if you listen
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: to wire to hunt, um, you'll if you go back
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: in the back lock. You hear the marks got this
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: whole story of Jason's deer around the same deer he sees.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: He's like basically roommates with him, and but the mysterious
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: deer and and and he's had opportunities in the past
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: to get him and didn't get him. Then he thought
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: he was dead. And then what you just found his
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: shed and he's not dead. Yeah. Well, yeah, last time
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: I was doing a podcast with you guys, I was
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: talking about how had my missed opportunity at him and everything,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: And then like a month later, I think I was
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: talking to you about Yeah, I heard from a friend
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: of a friend that the neighbor shot a big one.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: This was the only like quote unquote big buck that
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: I'd seen in the area for like three years, so
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: it had to be that dear. So I thought, oh, yeah,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: he's dead. He disappeared off trail camera. I didn't see
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: him in times a year. You just see him after that.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I kind of moved on and then randomly
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: mourned his loss. I don't know have more his loss,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: but I came to terms of the fact that this
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: part of my of my life was done. And and yeah,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: like late February, I think it was. I just was like,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: I need to go get some fresh air, take the
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: dog for a walk. So I went out to this
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: property just thought. I walked just kind of the outside
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: little edge is just a nice little spot and snow
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: on the ground. Wasn't looking for shed antlers or anything,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: and just stumbled onto some that was a nice little
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: stand up pines, and I just saw these this crown
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: of time sticking out of the snow. Pull it up
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: and lo and behold, he's still around. Never was a
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: little bit. It was exciting, it's awesome. It was a
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: little bit and uh it was a little bit bitter
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: sweet because a tiny bit of me was relieved when
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: i'd like come to terms with him being gone, because
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: all right, I can move on like I wanted. I'm
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: gonna go hunt some different places. I'm gona do some
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: different stuff, and I find like, oh ship, I'm back
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: to this again. So now your whole next year's all
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: playing out. You gotta try to find this book. Well,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm telling myself now is that I'm
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: not gonna do what I did last year. I'm not
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: going to like change all my I'm not gonna put
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: all my eggs in that basket. I would love to
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: finish this four year journey. Now. I love to kill
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: this deer um, but I'm not gonna let it like
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: consume my life. It's not gonna be the end all
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: be all. I'm gonna do a lot of different things. Yeah,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hut smart. Yeah, I'm still gonna try to
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: target that deer and see what happens. But like you
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: said some number months ago, maybe the way it's supposed
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: to end is that I never do. And the story
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: and he rides off from the sunset. It was a movie.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: It fills a movie, and you shot at people be
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: bummed at the end of the movie. People, I told
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: you it should be like the movie The Golden Seal.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Did I tell you this. We're in the end. Then
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: he got mad a chance and he comes out. You
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: guys lock eyes, and you can't do it. You just
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: drop your gun or drop your bow and start to weep.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: And the buck and it starts foggy and it's snowing
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: in the buck like looks at you and you guys,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: and he walks off. That's a movie. But in the end,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: the buck walks up and you kill him. Dude. No,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: it's gonna like that movie. People like conclusions, they like
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: things tied up in a nice bow. It needs to
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: be like the end of The Deer Hunter. Yeah yeah,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: And then you got mad because I hadn't seen it.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: Have you seen you? You haven't seen the Deer h
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: haven't seen the Deer but I saw pop up somewhere
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: like I should watch that. You haven't seen the Deer Hunt?
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: In my bad on that one? Please anyone right here? Yeah, Lestern, Pennsylvania. Oh, yeah,
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: you've seen it. They're hunting it's red stags. Yeah, there's
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: so much about that movie. It's a it's a war movie, right,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: it's about get the right one. So it's it's it's
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: some guys from Pennsylvania, colk and in that Steel country,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: the Highlands, Scottish stags across in the in the mid
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: It's a real problem in movies when you get to
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: know them too much about wild life, movies really start
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: to let you down. The worst movie is The Reverend
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Velvet Bulls running across the River and wanted burn. Dude.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: It was like that, uh, The Deer Hunter where it
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: winds up it's like we're in Pennsylvania Steel Country. But
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it's a Stag's terrible even at night.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: They show up in the morning. Last Mohicans, it's a
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: red deer. Yeah, they just get you every time. Man.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: I thought about just offering my services to movies. Yeah,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: just be a consultant anything that has to do with hunting.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: It would be a great jobs, you know, just just
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: for I'll do it for free, just from my own
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: viewing bremy. I'll tell you right now that I have
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: done some of that, and they do not care. Don't listen,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: they do not care. Early on in my TV career,
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, I get it, but we're not making reality.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: We're not marking in this Two Hunters. Early on in
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: my TV career, I was trying to explain to a
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: producer about the whole problem of not knowing what's going
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: to happen next, and at one point he grew frustrated
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and he said, well, that's what animal wranglers are for.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna throw up my defense for not seeing
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: that movie though, because I do recall now thinking about
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: it back in the day when video stores were like
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: a big thing, you know, and going to get a
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: video with your curtain in the back corner. That's a
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: different story, begging like I passed that one and be
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: on the shelf, and then like, that's the one I
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: want to see The Deer Hunter. I know I'm gonna
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: love that movie, just you know, going off the time.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: And then my parents would be like, I don't think
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: that's a movie for you, and and and then I
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: just I never I never caught back up with it.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: I never I never revealed that that secret. But yeah,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: it's stunning. I mean, it's what it's a masterpiece. And
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: then check it out. Guys, guys from the you know,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: it's guys from Pennsylvania. Um. They go off to fight
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: in Vietnam. It's Christopher Walking, Robert de Niro. One of
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: them goes into the Green Bray's. They meet up in
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: a then the whole Russian Roulette. It's just like it's horrible.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: It is horrible, but there's some there's a reckoning, like
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: what Mark will eventually have with holy Field. There's a
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: reckoning in the end where the deer Hunter finds his
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: deer and cannot do it. Oh unrelated note, Mark, what's uh,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Guys? Like at vortex. I got
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: a whole big, brand new building. Yeah yeah, I mean
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: that's that's the biggest sale. I mean, that's been definitely
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: a long, a long process us and yeah, kudos everybody
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: that that worked on that project. So yeah, we recently
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: got moved in, got settled. So now it's not Middleton, Wisconsin,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: not Middleton, YEP. So we're we're we're close, fairly close,
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: I mean not too far away. Um in an adjacent
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: community called Barneveld, and it's that's a really cool town.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: Smaller town, a little bit, a little bit more rural,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: so not as many sandwich options, not as many sandwichs options.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: But it's good man, I think I think it's actually
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: it's but it's forcing me to eat healthier because you know,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: you bring a good lunch every day. So so when
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: we're hanging out there though, and we went to where
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: you guys were manufacturing the what's the line of sculpes
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: you manufacture that you were manufacturing that when we went
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: to look so right now it's the razor, the razor
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: h d A, MG, what happened all that stuff? That
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: stuff moves, Yeah, moved, which is a big process in
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: and of itself, just you know, I mean, I mean
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: you hire a company to like take that on, and
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: I mean that's what they specialize in, is is moving
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: equipment like that. And I wasn't super close to that process,
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: but I know, I know it was a process. Did
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: they give you a humorous office? Corner office? I probably
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: have the sweetest cube in the world. You got a cubicle? Yeah?
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Did you look out your window recently? Tell me you
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: saw some birds or is that someone different? Does you?
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: I mean the so yeah, I'm on I'm on the
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: second floor and actually the whole building. I mean, when
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: you guys can buy, I mean you'll see it. I
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: mean it really is, uh you know, an engineering masterpiece.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: But uh um, yeah, I mean good windows, good light. Yeah,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: we we we look out on on on the I
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: guess the front of the building or where you would
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: enter the building, um backs up to nature Conservancy. So yeah,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: you got Do you feel it to be unethical if
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: you shot one of those turkeys out of your second
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: story office building? I do, out of the second story
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: office building. Yeah, I'm probably probably not gonna take that shot.
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: But I've been thinking about that though lately, because I
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: mean we've been seeing them there you know, they're they've
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: got some regulars that come by and you get to
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: know him. Not to get to know him, but I
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: mean you see him regularly, and I'm like, man, you know,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: like I just don't think. And again it goes into
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: those like ethics, not ethics, but just like those gray
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 1: areas of if I was just to be turkey hunting
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: in general and I came upon a turkey, i'd probably
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: shoot that turkey. I don't know, because that that's the
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: thing I have to say. This is like grade school.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: There's so many people in here. It's like you can
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: be talking over thirteen people know what's going on. Okay,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: this is what I don't get though. Your thing with
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: the trout on their spawning beds. Why can't you shoot
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: a turkey in a tree? Because it's wrong? And I would.
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: That's how if it's legal, I would shoot every turkey different.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: Here's your turkey hunt. Forget the calls. You sneak up
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: to the bottom of the tree in the dark. As
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: soon as shooting our starts. You have a little deeper
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: on your watching, Paul, And when that turkey some double
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: As a young man. As a young man, I attempted
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: something like that it did not work. My questions is,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: are those turkeys spotting? Why can't you shoot a turkey?
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: Is different? Turkey's are majestic, noble. No. Here, this is
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: where the whole thing falls apart. Here's what the whole
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: thing falls apart, because I do believe that there is
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: a right and a wrong way to get a turkey. See,
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: I just can't go. I just cannot. I will never
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: in my life be talked into that. I used to
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: be a bushwhacker. I used to bushwhack him, and now,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: um now I'm like, Saul is it, Paul's who is it?
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: Who's who's up on their Bible learning? Who got who
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: gets blinded? On the way? Who the damask is? Saul
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: or Paul? If not one of you guys knows this
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: gets blind I don't know. Yeah. So I had my
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Damascus moment um where I stopped bushwhacking turkeys. See everyone
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: that goes turkey hunting so hard, I'm like, can the shotgun?
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: I'll show you how hard it is. Listen, Yeah, you
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: feel a different grade turkeys one decoin ducks, right, Yeah,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: but I like the jump ducks, but it's not as
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: cool as decoy them. It's just when there's so much
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: more stuff and so much more effort to decoin, but
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: you would never shoot a duck on the water. He's like,
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: not true. I have been in situations where and there's
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: a very good argument you made for it. Where I've
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: been with people who said, listen, uh, I put a
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: lot of time and effort into selecting my spot and
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: camouflaging myself and putting out my decoys and calling. And
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: I'm hunting a high pressure area. Right if I can
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: do everything so right and trick the birds so much,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: I was supposed to be like, oh, I only kind
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: of tricked them where he passed over and I shot him.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: But I went through all the work to fully trick
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: him to the point where he handed in my spread.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, you're too good. You tricked him
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: too much. You've now forfeited your right to shoot the duck.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: But so some guys will be like, I'm gonna now
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: jump it up, right. So now you're like, if you
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: put yourself in the ducks position, okay, where I say
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: to you, brody, I'm gonna kill you now. I could
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: just shoot you in the head right now. I'm gonna
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: shoot you in the leg and then run around and
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: chase you and beat you over the hell of a gun?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: What are you gonna pick? I'll take the quick one.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: But that's a shooting him on the water. I think
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: it's less effective. You can't break their way exactly. They dive.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: It's it's almost more you jump them up, so you
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: know you'll kill him because because then he's yeah yeah, now, yeah,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: I've seen some you know, not that I was. I
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: don't want to say I was on the trigger, but
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: I have seen I have seen some on the water
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: gimmes where everybody's kind of like, how in the world
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: did that not work? Right? They almost have to aim
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 1: below him. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, I'm gonna
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: get back to mark from it though, Um what layout for?
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: Like what's going on with new products and whatnot with
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: you guys? So yeah, man, um really talking about getting
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: a little job about turkeys? Is there anything I should
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: be getting excited about? Man, we got some new buyos
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: that are super sweet that'd be good for turkey hunt.
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: Like how does it fit? Like, what is what you
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: got coming out? How does it fit in? I mean
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: their new So we just like like three weeks ago
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: we released our new I guess our new generation of
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: the Viper HD buyos um. So if anybody's familiar with
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: like the original Viper HD series, this is kind of
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: a next evolution of those. And I mean, I guess
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: for me, how works in the Turkey hunting is you
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: should always have a set of binoculars whatever you're hunting.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I had to get you know what the already my
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: body Tommy Yets and it was like, do you bring
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: binoculars turkey hunting? I'm like absolutely, yeah, I've been like
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: the look at stuffing binoculars everything hunting, I'd be annoyed.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I have forgot my binoculars before, you know,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: getting out of the house early in the morning, and
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: you it's like forgetting your cell phone. It's like, you're
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: it's the cell phone of hunting equipment, even though I
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: guess cell phones are kind of part for hunt equipment. Now,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. You always check in your pocket, Yeah,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: I bring them with Yeah, you have it, yeah, use it,
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: keep it, keep all the time. So they're that, I mean,
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: that's uh, optically there step up form factors awesome. They're
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: a little bit more compact, so what are they like
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: when it when it comes to are they more they're
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: they're less money than the Razors. Yeah, so they'd be
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: kind of like a tier tier below the Razor. But
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: I mean they're they're solid, biny, they're good. So I'd
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: say that that's the binal that I would suggest even
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: before and now, like a person who has a need
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: for kind of who uses their optics in a manner
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: where they kind of have that need for top tier
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: optical performance but maybe don't have the budget to take on,
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: you know, a top tier binal like the Razor HD.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: You know you can fall back into that Viper HD
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: and you're still getting a very very good optic for
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: your dollar. Ya. How do you guys when you're picture
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: and all that man um Like what the do do
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: do people call up in Uh? Do people call up
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: and like express bafflement about what how stuff like why
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: bnoculars and stuff are so expensive? Or they just kind
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: of like people just accept now that it's like a
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: thing that costs money. It was difficult, Like I always
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: talk about one of our guy books, I wrote about
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: guys that roll up in fifty pickups with Tony Tony
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: Doll bronoculars. I'm like, you got it all wrong, bro,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think that still happens, you know,
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: And I think, and we've talked about this before, but
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think it takes somebody having having that
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: optics epiphany, you know, when they when they really see
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: what it's about, you know, and maybe they use their buddies,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: you know, really good buyos or something like that, and
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: then you know they're like, oh man, I need to
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: get a set of that. I can tell you my epiphany.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Do you know what my epiphany? I think we talked
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: about it before, but yeah, well was it. We're hunting
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: on the uh years ago the first time everyone out
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: there were hunt on the north slope of the Brooks Range,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: and there's a grizzly coming up the other side of
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: the river from our camp and I'm looking that a
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: thing my binals and that looked at my buddies, binys,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: and he had just he had to spend a season
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: pack and moose on Alaska Peninsula. And the guy gave
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: us that of souped up binos, and well, I'm looking
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: at which just like this amorphous brown blob walking up
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: the other riverbank and I looked through his and I
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: can see that that there's like the winds blowing and
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: it's forming these little cowlcks and the bear's hair. And
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: I'm watching this like cowlic kind of move around on
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: its rump with the breeze blowing on it, and I'm like,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: I can tell you what I'm gonna be saving up
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: some money for. It's like actual binals. Yeah, yeah, I mean,
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: and and since then now, I'm just like, I'm just
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: addicted to looking through them. Well, And I think that
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: you when you get used to having something like that
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: in the woods, like if you haven't been using binos,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: if you haven't been carrying them, which I think i'd say,
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: by and large, like a lot of people do now, right,
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: but I think maybe it's less common, know even you know,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: fift twenty years ago whatever, um, throwing a very non
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: concrete timeline on that. But um, once you do, I
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: think you realize like what you've been missing, and you
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: just yeah, you can't get enough. And then you you
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: realize how important they are and what you can do
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 1: with them, like you can look at stuff, you know,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: and whether your tree stand hunting and Wisconsin or you know,
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: Cuisier hunting in Arizona, man, I mean, that's it's an
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 1: important piece to have, for sure. You hang out with
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: bubbly dog dering. I was hunting with Doug one time
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: and we walked up in what he calls the big woods,
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: up by the wet spot, which are the two great
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: names for bars um. And we get by the wet
• 1:20:40
  Speaker 1: spot and I just like, take my binos and scan
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: through the big woods and glass up the tippy tippy
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: top of a turkey fan. Never in a million years
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: would we would have walked in and spooked, glassed up
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: that tippy top of a turkey fan, and we sat
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: down and killed that bird maybe an hour later. Never
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: would have never would have found that turkey. No. I mean, yeah,
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't have killed that bird without those binos. No.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: I was kind of like when I saw I was
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: like shocked by what I was looking at. I think
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 1: it's like a super important thing. And I mean that's
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just you know a good example of
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: one tactic, right. You know, when you're creeping into that field,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: you know, stay back glass it, you know, before you
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: expose yourself and blow the whole thing out, you know,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: and you guys obviously saw something, got an opportunity and
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: capitalized on itself. I got sorry the north thing like
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: speaking of I'm talking about that there should be a
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: bar called the wet Spot, which we discussed before. A
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: guy rode in to say, like, if there was a
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: bar called the bearded hen, would you go into it?
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: And he also was wanted and this is a good question.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: Would most states you could kill? Like most states, a
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: legal bird is a bearded bird one and one hands
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: is bearded roughly. I think it's like it depends on
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: areas and whatnot. Um, would you shoot a bearded him?
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: Ask me that question, would bearded him? I've got one
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: mounted on my wall. Shot a beard, shot a beard
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: end and you knew you were shooting a beard at head.
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: That's a good question. It was fall. It's just like
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: beard boom, exact same minus the mountain. You shot a
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: beard at ye? Really yell now that these guys have
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: broke the ice and I know it's the same thing.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I rolled a bearded in in the spring
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: in the spring, but I called this bird in and
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: you know, and it's kind of you know, doing this
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: turkey stuff, and a little beard poked out I'm like,
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: oh cool. So you're like it's a female, but it's
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: got a beard, so it's legal, you know. I mean
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: at the time, it was happening pretty quick, but I
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: saw that beard let it rip, and I don't know,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: I can't say that I necessarily. I mean in the fall,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's a little bit different because there, you
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: know what I mean. But yeah, I mean that's that's
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: what happened. See, I think it's wrong. Identified I want
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: to clarify I have never shot a turkey out of
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: a roost, but I also don't think it's wrong, just
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: in case I'm backling, But I have no quantu You
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: can kill a turkey with attack hammer in your backyard.
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: It's a barn animal. Man. No rules the turkeys. I
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: generally fall under our states whatever the state defines as
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: the regulations. Yeah, you know what Eldo Leopold said about
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: that no ethics is doing the right thing is watching,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 1: even when doing the wrong thing is legal. My god,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's wrong wrong. It's not wrong wrong.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: But if I was hunting, and I I was hunting
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: spring out spring turkeys, and I and I and a
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: hand came in with a beard on it. I would
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: not be able to This is coming from the man
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: who would who would pitch for it? Browns out of
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: a train. I would not be able to harm that
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: female turkey. I don't believe. Last day of long hunt
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: and there's a bearded hen, I don't know what. Would
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: you go into a bar named the Bearded Hen with
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: a level of uncertainty? Would you bring your wife into
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: a bar called the Bearded Hen? Absolutely not. That's the
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: only way I would go in. Um, all right, Uh,
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: We've got a lot of concluding thoughts, lots of concluding
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: thoughts to go through. Um, we'll start with Brodie. Oh man,
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: I'm just excited Turkey Seasons. I'm not there for the opener,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: but Colorado opened today, so I'm stoked to get back
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: and go chase some turkeys and shoot him out of
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: trees with a nail gun. What's what is your what
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: is your actual like turkey hunt plan? Well, I got
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: two tags that drew a tag and I gotten over
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: the counter text. So I'll hunt the draw tag first
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: and then let all the guys clear out of the
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: over the counter areas, and then after get after a
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks later, Yeah, My brother got both his
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: turkeys today just watching said, yeah, he just did a
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: trip and got two turkeys, so he doesn't like stretching
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 1: the hunt out. No, you know, in some places you
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: can't do that on the on the same day. You
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: know what I saw the other day in Arkansas, You're
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: not allowed to shoot Jake's spring season. That's immoral to
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: make hands. He can't shoot a Jake. Well, you know,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: we're going to Missouri tomorrow and I've been trying to
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: weigh out in my head. I'm you know, I'm like, okay, yeah,
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold out for long beard. But at what
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: point do I, as my brother says, put the Jake
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: breaks on one. Well, that's what's nice about having two tags.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: You can, you know, you can focus on the big
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: bull and take a Jacob. They banned shooting Jake's in
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: the spring. I just stumble across it, you know, looking
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: at that, like on Arkansas website and they posted their
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: legs and no Jake's for you listeners, that Jake is
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: a it would be a one year old turkey, and
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have spurs. He's just got little round nubs
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: and his beard is like an inch or too long,
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: and I'd have a few more unpunched turkey tags. If
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: it was illegal to kill Jake's I would never shoot
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: a Jake. That's where I draw the line and the
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: roofs with his nail gun. And he's like, yeah, I
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: only go see, I only go so low. Here a beard,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: a bearded hand, that's one thing that's just weird. But Jake,
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: you know, he doesn't even have a chance to breed yet. No,
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: they don't monsters, his fan his fans not totally tricked out,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: can't do a real rip and gobble. Uh was that
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: that's your concluder? Yeah, Mark Kenyon been in the hot seat. Yeah, uh,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: you know, this is my first b h A rendevo
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 1: had been at. We haven't really talked about like where
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: we're at here and what's going on. But I think
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: my concluding thought was just what an awesome group of
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: people that's here at this event. I mean, the energy
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: has been really impressive. The relative youth has been surprising
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: and impressing. That's maybe not surprising, but I think compared
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: to other events you go to within the hunting and
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: fishing world, it's it doesn't look like this. Um So
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: that was encouraging to see and um stoked about. It's
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: just you get a lot of excitement and group like
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: this for the future of what we're doing here in
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: the hunting and fishing and conservation world, and the future
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: is bright when you look at this group. Yeah, it's
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: kind of stunning to see pictures of the group and
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: the age demographic defies the norm. I remember not too
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: long ago i read that um in Michigan the average
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: age of a person who buys a trapping license goes
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: up exactly one every year, which is old tad still
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: at it. It was harrowing. Can we talk about how
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: you're off the market? Oh yeah, all those ladies locks.
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I could wooly mammoth ivory, yeah,
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: it's not legal wooly mammoth ivory. Yeah? Is there? I
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: don't know, is there now? There's like a big thing
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: they want to band mammoth ivory because it's becoming like
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: replacing elephant ivery. Apparently, you know, a lot of it
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: depends on where it was found private land, public land.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: It's found in private land. It's like, yeah, because yeah,
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of you know what, Brody were you
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: just sent me that article, I think you did you know? Uh,
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: if familiar with the Lacey I guess the Lacey Act.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: So for a listener who isn't, you're excused if you
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: don't know the Lacy Act. The Lacy Act is one
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: of the things that allow just too. You know, back
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: in the early the Lacy Act is one of the
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: things that allowed us to start putting an end to
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: market hunting, which was decimating wildlife populations. Is it makes
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: it a federal offense to move like illegally obtained wildlife
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: across state lines. So if states states might have um
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: lacks rules governing wildlife, but the Lacy Act allows you
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: to make federal crimes out of moving things around. And
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: someone will just show me an article where this is
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: kind of perplexing. They're using the Lazy Act to go
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: after people smuggling dinosaur bones. So here you're taking an
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: animal from sixty five million years ago who has a
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: fossilized bone and using a contemporary wildlife trafficking law to too.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: It's a novel approach, man, how well it will hold
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: up in court? It's not recognized as wildlife. When I
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: called albert a first fishing game, when I found that
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: buffalo skull there only a couple of hundred years old.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: He said, great buffalo is not a recognized game species. Okay, yeah,
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: whatever you want, you find some mineralized like when you
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: find a dinosaur fossil, that's right. It's just a weird deal, man,
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: it's a weird deal. But what they're looking for there
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: is where it was applicable is there's a lot of people,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: like right now, everybody goes to Mongolia for dinosaur fossils.
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: It's like the New it would be like you know,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: it'd be like New Mexico in the nineteen thirties, right,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: It's just like it's not picked over yet. People used
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: to see it in disregard it the same way you know,
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: people used to not pick up Indian arrowheads. And all
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 1: of a sudden, you get enough time and separating the
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 1: two events and it starts to become something noteworthy. So
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: there's people like looting all these and there's not much
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: enforcement in Mongolia. So there's people looting all these dinosaurs
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: fossils out of Mongolian bringing them into the US, and
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: they're using the Lacey Act to go after people with it,
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: which I thought was an interesting approach. Uh, but aremy
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: your concluder. You're married. I feel different. Yeah, it feels good.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: I think it should feel different a little bit. You know.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: I like it. I'm excited about it. It's a great wedding,
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: and uh, it was a lot of fun also. Uh.
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: One of my final thoughts. Everyone will think that I
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: hate on Turkey's mostly it's just for fun, because that's funny.
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: It's funny. It's funny. It's like one of those things.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: It's like I can pick the turkey guy that's a
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: fanatic about turkey and just go after him only because
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: I think I've got that turkey hunter distaste from guiding
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: him Montanas or guiding elk hunter so much, and these
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: guys coming and going, oh yeah olk cutting, No, I've
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: I've got it. It's just like turkey hunting. I'm like, nah' sorry,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: I've been turkey hunting. It's nothing like they make similarities. No,
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 1: sheep hunting. It's a lot like turkey hunting. I think
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: what I think of turkey hunting is being like a
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: little mini elk hunt because it's like it does have
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: this right that there's a male and he has this
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: audacious noise he makes and then there's a female and
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: she has sort of a more a more tempered kind
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: of calm version that she makes, and you're using the
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: one to bring in the other, and you sit up
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: on a high spot and you're praying to hear a goble,
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: just like you're praying to hear a bugle. If I
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 1: was yeah, it's like saying elk hunting is a lot
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: like well, then turkey hunting is all like pigeon hunting.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, I would never say it, right, I
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: think Yanni does say it. Yeah, so yeah, but I
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: see where they're coming from. I get it, But it's also,
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: in my mind, two completely different things. And if anybody
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: that has said that to me while I've been guiding
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: them learned within a few minutes that it was not
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: the same. So I'm like, all right, Like a statement
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: of saying the hunting of the two is similar, I
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: would say that that's pretty false for obvious reasons to anybody.
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 1: But I think when you start talking about interacting and
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: calling animals, there are any other animals that I've hunted
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: anywhere where you call and interact with like that. And
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: I've done a little bit of duck hunting now and
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: that's that gender. That's that gender specific. What calling ducks
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: isn't the same thing. But that's what I'm saying. I
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: don't think it's the same thing at all. You know,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: even though a lot of people get into the interaction,
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: but it's still not like you're not playing the hen
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: or the cow and trying to call in a bowl,
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: or you could play with the gobbler or another bull
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: and calling the bull. Yeah, terrain similarly to you know,
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: to bring the animal over a roll to come see
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: you know, you making that call. I mean, you do
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: those same two exact tactics. He's gonna be like, you know,
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: it's a lot like turkey hunt. I used to disagreem,
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: but now I agree. Um cal, I don't know. I
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: mean all all good things. That fish deal man, we've
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: been over that a million times, and similar circles on
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: fishing fish off their reds and yeah, it said, it's
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 1: a real interesting one. Um I had something to that. Yeah,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: please do. I didn't have my head set on earlier.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: We didn't have a head set. But it's kind of
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: like the stocked pond. You can make an analogy with
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: the stocked pond, right, like fishing the reds all of us.
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: Probably that would ethnically like kind of not do it
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: now for trout or just whether it's ectics or just
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: kind of like whatever, it's too easy. It's fishing to bucket.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: The first time you went and did it, you're probably like,
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 1: holy shit, it's fun, you know, like, oh my god,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: you know, and then this second or third time, it's
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: kind of like going back to this stocked trout pod.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: The second Yeah, all right. See that's the thing. That's
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: why I feel a little bit of guilt because I
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: remember um hearing about and really like exploring and trying
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: to find the mythical brown trout spawn. Yeah. Yeah, because
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: this is before it was a bad thing. I remember
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: people like I remember reading in like guide books, you know,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: good areas to go look for spawning browns. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 1: bets probably could find. Guy books told you how to
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: you know, blow up Candida Geese off Damns by packing
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: a buckshot around dynamite sticks to you know what I mean,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: build yourself a cannon. What you're gonna need. Uh. So
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: that's your concluding thought. You just want to touch back
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 1: on something earlier. Oh, I guess I'll just say thanks.
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 1: I love these discussions. That's good and uh and yeah,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: I guess also absolutely blown away at how much this
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: b h A rendevous has grown. It's crazy. We had
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: those seminars this morning, nuts and I asked, h, I
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: gotta I gotta introduce Remy for his Q and a
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 1: UM and be the moderator for him. But asked out
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 1: of the gate, how many people is this year first rendezvous?
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: And I mean it had to have been over fifty
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: of that rare I thought it was even more like
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: eighty plus percent. There's a there's a lot of people
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: in there. Surprised me. See it's four hundred and that
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: had to be over three I think. Yeah. The first
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: one I went to was probably six or seven years
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: ago and it was at the fair ground in Missoula,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: and I gave a talk to like the dinner thing
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: and uh most maybe a hundred fifty people. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: it's so it's growing like crazy. Anik market spot on
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: And I mean the youth is so encouraging to see
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: it's the youngest uh um kind of rotten gun anything
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 1: I've been around, so um pretty neat to see hopefully
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: make its impacts. I think as far as uh, there's
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: lots of talk today, Um, in the last couple of
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: days really about you know, how we move the needle
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: as far as new hunter recruitment and hunter retaining retainment,
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: and um, just like like Remy said many times this morning,
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: it's like, we gotta every single person is an ambassador
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: for what we love to do, and we gotta do
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: a hell of a lot better job putting a better
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: face on it. So, yeah, it's been a cool, uh
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: cool couple of days so far. Mr Phelps. Yeah, so
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 1: this is my first b H rendezvous. It's been awesome. Um.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: The only thing that's kind of open my eyes is
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: I'm fairly conservative. I come from a logging town, and
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: then you kind of show up with people that maybe
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: you don't see eye to eye with, but we're all
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: here for the one thing that we love. So they're
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: less taxes. You're like, and I'm gonna make a funny joke,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: you know, like the shiny puffy coats. I kind of
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: make a joke like at home, I'm the guy in
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: a fleece because that's old school. But yeah, I'm like,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: I've never been around so many hunters in a shiny
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: puffy coat before. But it's cool because you can take that.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 1: And we're all here for the same reason. We all
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: love to recreate on public land. We all love to
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: hunt and fish on it. And for all of us
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: to come together, um as a group of people with
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: the one passion and be laser focused on public lands,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: is it is awesome? Um? Yeah, And I do want
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: to do you? Do you feel that this? Can you
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: check this out? No, it's got a first, it's got
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 1: a first. Let you can check it out like part
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 1: part of my jackets a little shiny. No, No, you're good. No, No,
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Remy's Remy's a jerk for shooting turkeys
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 1: have a tree? How about bearded hands? So there's two sides,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: like and then we didn't you guys didn't even really
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: get into like the genetic mutation side of it, like
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: maybe we should get those things out of here? Are
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: they bad? I don't know if it's bad. I've just
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: heard that side of the story, like it is a
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: genetic mutation and we should shoot those things. I would
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: say that without genetic mutations, Um, I feel like life
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: would have ended a long time ago. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm just saying I I wouldn't specifically target one
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 1: of one came walking through the setup and I knew
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: it was a bearded him. I would probably let it go.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: But it's it's it's one of those things where you know,
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pass my my own belief onto something.
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: You know, if you want to shoot, it's within the
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: state laws. And that kind of gets back to the
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: the fishing thing, um, you know where where kel doesn't
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: want to fish over over the edds, but then maybe
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: my kid does because that's a different experience, and so
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: I don't necessarily say we want to put laws that
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: you know, cover that or blanket it for everybody. But
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: then you know he's out there for the sport and
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: and uh, you know the uncertainty of of hooking up
• 1:39:43
  Speaker 1: one we're like me taking my kid. Maybe I don't
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: want to do that, but I want to have the
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: ability to take my kid and hook up to that fish.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: And so I think there's a and you know, you
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: gotta look at it through that scope of of who
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: the person is and um, you know, take take it
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: for what it is. When you were talking earlier about uh,
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: like political spectrums, do you feel that uh, do you
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: feel that that people right, who who lean politically right,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: and people lean people who lean politically left. Do you
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: see like in your community that people coalesce around the
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: idea of supporting public lands or in particularly supporting federal
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: land management agencies and sort of assisting them and and
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: you know, giving them verbal support and helping them, you know,
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: make decisions that allow access. But you know, do do
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 1: you feel that there's that people are coming around this
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: idea on your community or do you feel that it's
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: a divisive issue in your community? In the dead center
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 1: of Warehouser Country, you know, the biggest land management manager
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 1: in the state of Washington, and so we don't there's
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: a very select few of us that have to travel
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 1: two hours to the east to recreate on you know,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: some federal lands. Um, we have some state owned ends
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: and stuff. But so I would around home, it's more
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 1: of interest on like how warehouses managing, not necessarily on
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: on the you guys are recreating on publicly accessible land
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: that's privately owned. Well, now, as long as you pay
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: three and fifty bucks, you get a key. Yeah. I
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: bought a hundred dollar pass for walking. Yeah. Yeah, so
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: you can do that. Yeah, I mean everybody everybody finds
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: it important, you know, anything that that, um, you know,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: affects them and their recreation and people are passionate about
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: So we don't get a big push in my area
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: for public lands besides a few of us that that
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: you know, routinely drive two hours eastern saying so when
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: you're when you're hunting local, you're hunting warehouse warehouses or
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: privately owned industrial which yeah, and that's like that too,
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: is a significant thing. And I think that that's a
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: I think people look at the public lands debate and
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: groups like b h A that really support public lands,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: and I think other people kind of have this question,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: like like our friend Doug, who's very involved in private
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: land conservation, and he'll kind of feel like he doesn't
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: really say this, but I think it's sometimes he feels like,
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: why all of a sudden, all this attention, Like most
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: land in the country, especially in these most land's private land.
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: If we're gonna get serious about conservation with it, to
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: pay a lot of attention to private land conservation, that's
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: where real con that's where some of the most important
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: conservation work. But you know, I would say him, um,
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: and I do say to him, but but there's not
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: an emptiness there. I think that we have stuff in
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: place to try to do that, like farm bills, CRP programs.
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot more dollars per acre that
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: go into private land conservation issues. But I think he
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 1: kind of feels that, um, there's a sort of lack
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: of sexiness around all that, just like the work of
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: doing good wildlife work on private land. And I think
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: like that there's this third area too, which is these
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: sort of almost like wilderness type places, these big tree
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: farms which are the size of they only land the
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: size of National four Us that are you know, privately held,
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: and there's a conservation question to have there too, and
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: also like giving them some giving them the credit of
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: allowing a public access program. They're not making tons of
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: money on public access. And I think it comes back
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: and maybe I'm a little off here, but it comes
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: back to the reason we're so passionate about public lands
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: is all eight of us in this room can end
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: up at some wilderness in Colorado hunting, and so we are,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: um all concerned about the conservation on that piece of
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: public land. Where a private land in Oowa, I have
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: this much interest in it because I'm never gonna get
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: a hunt there, even though I do care about the species.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: So I think it comes back to a little bit
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: of that selfish nature that all of us in this
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: room can take it and not take advantage. But we
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: we have the ability to to recreate on some of
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: this public land that potentially holds the animals we want
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: to go pursue where that private land back east and
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't hold anything for us, even though we
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: all do care about you know, the the white tail,
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: and and you know the stuff that is back there
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: that that I may not you know, get the get
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: the hunt that private proper. Ever, you know, uh, are
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: you talking about Dog? He's got a funny story. I
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: kind of hesitate to tell this. I don't want to
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: get Dog in trouble. Well I'll tell it. So Dougs
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: in a bar and a guy, like a local guy
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: in the bar. It's like, oh, yeah, if you want
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: to hunt Doug's place, you gotta be like a celebrity.
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: You know, Doug won't anybody on his place, and dogs
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: is half the bar. Goes, I was just hunting Dog's place,
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: So that goes. Baby, You don't hunt Doug's place because
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: you're an asshole. So there is Yeah, I think there
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: is that, like, sure, you're doing great work, but what's
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: the how's it benefit me? Um? Yeah, that's a that's
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: a funny thing to bring up, that there is some
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: sort of like a little bit of a selfish nature
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: about public land because you're looking out for your own
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: best interest. I remember saying it before that if someone
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: came to me, like like with the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: if I had to make a deal. We're talking about
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: this with John Garrick. I think if I had to
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: make a deal with the devil and they said, Okay,
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: here's here's the here's the story, Sonny, you never you're
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: never allowed to step foot back here in exchange for
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: that will never drill it, but you'll never see it again,
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: or you can come here all you want. I would
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: be like, well, I'll take the I'll take the I
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: don't step foot on it ever again. Deal, Like, let's
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: go with that one. So I think that it's not always,
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 1: but but yeah, I think that you wind up having
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: this idea um of that you do have a sense
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: of ownership over and whether you're gonna use it or not.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 1: It feels the same way. That's why I think the
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: thing that needs to happen in the conservation world is
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: the sense of um and it happens in other factions,
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: other cultural factions were an attack on one is an
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: attack on all. But I think that a lot of
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: times outdoors may tend to be very sort of myopic
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: and kind of provincial in their view of that. They're
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: really worried about their corner of the world, and it's
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: like harder to picture. Like for me, I've never hunt
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: in Nebraska, so maybe a conservation issue of Nebraska doesn't
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: feel as immediate to me, right, But to try to
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: foster this conservation sense where where people do they're like, oh,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: there's trouble brewing Nebraska. I don't go there, probably never
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: will go there, don't have anybodies there. But I'm gonna
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: come in their defense and help him out on this
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: this wildlife issue, just because I'm viewing it like an
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: attack on one, his attack on all. But I think
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: it's super frustrating. It's gotta it's not can't only be
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: a direct threat. It has to be an immediate, direct
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: threat for the hunting community to get really fired up
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: from what I've seen right now, let me get my
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: boots on, uh Mark bourbon concluders. I got a couple one.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: My level of guilt for shooting the spirited hand is
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: off the charts right now. But I put some thought
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: into it because I was thinking that you got to
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: feeling guilty about the beard and head, well, yeah, because
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: it's I felt bad because well, and actually I'll say this,
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: I kind of felt bad at the moment too. But
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: I put some thought into why those rules are in place,
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: and I think it applies to the scenario in which
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: this incident happened, where I called this burden identified with
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: absolute certainty that it had a beard, Yeah, And I
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: made the decision to pull the trigger based on that,
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: And then upon further discovery, I was like, oh, that's
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: a unique thing. Yeah, but you gotta have some marker,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: Like you can't say male or female because um, you're
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: gonna invite because people are gonna be like, well, I'm
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: gonna what's the best way to indicate male or femaleness?
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: And someone might very reasonably say a beard because you're
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: not gonna tell him look at the spurs because it's
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: hard to see spurns like it's down on its foot
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: and he's walking through tall grass. So you can have that.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: You can't say like, oh, you gotta wait till he
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: fans out in struts and displays because a lot of
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: times they don't do that, or he'll gobble. Well maybe
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: he comes in quiet, so at some point. And then
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 1: there's there's things with the head, like a seasoned turkey
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: hunter will look at the head, especially in the spring,
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: and know what they're looking at, but not always so
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: the same way, dear, like it doesn't say well some
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: states people say like a boker male, but oftentimes it's
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: an antlered deer. Because you gotta go, like, what is
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: the identifying feature that we're all going to agree upon?
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: So the fact that one and one turkeys is masquerading
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: around with the beard, I don't think it's like a
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: it's a legitimate mistake to make. Right. You see, you're
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: sitting there in the woods and here comes to turkey
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: and also there's that beard. It's like game on most people.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, and that's why I'm I'm I'm almost wondering
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: and I don't know right, But like like you said,
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: it's an identifying feature, so that rule is put in place.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: So if something like does like that does happen, like
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: that person didn't break the law right because was the
• 1:49:00
  Speaker 1: intent was not there. Like my guess would be that
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: if there was no such thing as a bearded hint,
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: they'd be like, how you can only shoot you know,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: So you know that's my that's my And then my
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: other concluder, so's tearing you up? Have you pitched forker
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 1: Brown off his spawning bed regularly? And then my other
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: concluder is yeah, I mean, and I'll just echo Mark
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: and Cow's uh thoughts on the on the b ch
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: a rendezvous, cool event, awesome like minded people. I think
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: there's um a unique electricity and a unique energy and
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: a strong momentum of of groups that maybe that hunt
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: and fish, but maybe cross a few other boundaries. And
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: uh and I think, you know, I think that momentum
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 1: is gonna hopefully you know, carry through where people whether
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: you do hunting fish or you know, enjoy public lands
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: for other recrea sational purposes. You know, we can all
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: agree on the same thing, that about how important they are.
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: Well said, I got two concluders, no kind of one
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: who was here when we were talking about all the
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: way different ways they um artificially inseminate and extract semen
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: from dogs and whatnot. You were here, yea, yeah, yeah,
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 1: I el Rannie and Doug a guy to listen to that,
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: and wrote in how he uh when he wasn't doing
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: animal and physiology studying in a veterinary school, he was
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: talking about their method of horse seeman collection as they
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: would have this, uh he calls it a large wooden
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: contraption that the stallion would do his business too. And
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: after it did his business, you would use a They
• 1:50:47
  Speaker 1: demonstrated how to use it like a little straw, and
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: you just use a little vacuum created with your own
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: mouth to kind of fill that straw with the semen
• 1:50:59
  Speaker 1: after he deposed on this, and then you've just packed
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: the straw away for later years. And you say, you
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: only you don't you only oversuck once, then you don't
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: make that you don't make that mistake again. But we
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: have gotten a lot. I'm not gonna go through all.
• 1:51:11
  Speaker 1: We had a lot of feedback from people about how
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: to extract semen from various creatures that i'll I'll not
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: get into right now, but I wanted to share that
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: one quickly. And the only thing I wanted to say
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: is um, this is from the bottom of my heart, like, uh, dude,
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: it is so nice to have people like all of
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: you guys to talk to, like honestly man um Yeah,
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: and he sense of loneliness one feels in the world,
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: Like find a group of guys like you so you
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: can like talk about this ship and they understand what
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: you're talking about. Uh. It makes me feel very happy
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: and alive. So thank you very much everyone for joining us.
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks for having