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Wikie and Keijo Orcas: The Breakthrough That Could Save Them, Or Come Too Late · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  You are not going to believe this.
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  France just made a major move that could change the fate
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  of two captive orcas forever.
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  But here's the part that no one's talking about.
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  This decision does not mean they are leaving tomorrow.
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  We're gonna talk about that and the Whale Sanctuary Project on this episode
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  of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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  Let's start the show.
• 0:24
  Hey everybody.
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  Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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  I'm your host, and/or Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator
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  here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for
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  the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action.
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  On today's episode, we are going to be talking about two orcas in France
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  who might make a trip across the Atlantic into Canada to join the Marine
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  Sanctuary Project in Nova Scotia.
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  This.
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  I'll be honest, I never thought we'd actually get to this point.
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  This is something that I didn't think was gonna happen anytime soon.
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  I thought it was gonna happen down the road.
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  I've done two episodes on this before on these latest developments,
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  but before we were talking about belugas in Marine land in Canada.
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  Now we're talking about two orcas in Marineland and TIB is in France.
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  And we are going to be talking about that by going through a bunch of things.
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  We're gonna talk a little bit about the orcas and give you a
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  little bit of history on that.
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  We're gonna talk about what France actually decided, why this is
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  such a big change from earlier rejections that France has made.
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  What still has to happen before any of these orcas go anywhere?
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  And what the Whale Sanctuary project has to say about this and what Canada
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  has said and not said, why this moment matters for captive citations globally,
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  and what to watch out for next.
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  We're gonna talk about that all today, so I can't wait to do it.
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  But let's just get into what this means and who are the
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  orcas that we're talking about.
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  So we're talking about Wiki and Caho.
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  They are right now in Marine land.
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  Tib in France, And so just a little talk.
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  They were both born in marineland of anti tib, so Wiki the birth in origin.
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  So Wiki is a female Icelandic orca, born on June 1st, 2001.
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  So she's about 24 years old at marineland of anti tib in France, meaning that
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  she's never lived outside of captivity.
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  So her parents were captive orcas captured in the wild for
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  the parks breeding program.
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  Wiki grew up in the concrete tanks and performed shows throughout her life.
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  She became known internationally for learning to mimic some human speech
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  sounds, which is kind of interesting.
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  And then Wiki has given birth to two calves at Marineland Moana,
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  who was born March 16th, 2011, unfortunately died October, 2023.
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  And Caho the other orca that we're talking about, which was
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  born in November 20th, in 20.
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  13. So Wiki has been in concrete tanks for 24 years now as of 2025,
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  so a release would be great for her.
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  And Ke Jo, as I said before, born November 20th, 2013, at the same facility
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  like his mother, ke Jo has never left.
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  Captivity growing up in the park tanks and being part of the performances until
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  citation shows were actually banned in France, similar to Canada and the US Ke
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  Joe's Wiki's younger son, his sibling Moana, died in 2023, And then Ke Jo has
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  been in those same tanks for about 12.
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  Years.
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  Now, here's the situation.
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  So Marine Land was the only facility in France housing orcas in 2021, French
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  law banned captive whale and dolphin shows putting an end date of December,
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  2026 for all animals still being held.
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  So no shows for those animals.
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  As a result, Marineland closed to the public in January, 2025, but
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  Wiki occasional remain in those tanks pending relocation decisions.
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  Now, those tanks, unfortunately, are deteriorating in the care and the
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  water quality's getting worse, so there is a bit of a hurry in that respect.
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  But unfortunately, like the previously facility house, a small group of
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  orcas, Moana died as I mentioned.
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  And there was also Anu Wiki's brother died in March, 2024,
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  leaving just Wiki and Keho, the two orcas that are left in France.
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  So unfortunately, like I said, observers and animal welfare groups, they've
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  reported on the decay tanks and poor water quality since the parks closure.
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  Raising concerns about the orcas wellbeing as they wait relocation.
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  Now relocation is a very difficult thing as we've seen in Canada.
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  There's certain ways that government can step in and be like, Hey, we don't
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  want them to go to another theme park, but we don't really have another.
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  Option at this point.
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  So this is a problem right now where water quality's getting worse, the tanks
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  are decaying because there's no money coming in because the park has shut down.
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  What do we do with these orcas?
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  So here's what France has actually decided as of the date of this recording.
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  It could change.
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  It has changed in the past.
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  They essentially said that they are signing over the two orcas.
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  To the Whale Sanctuary Project in Nova Scotia.
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  Now the key thing here is that they're signing over.
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  We don't know what that means.
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  I'll clarify that in a second.
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  But this is interesting 'cause they're changing their tune from
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  a couple of months ago when they said No, there's no way that the
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  Whale Sanctuary project is ready for relocation at this point in time.
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  And so we're not even thinking about it.
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  But now they've actually said they're signing over these two orcas.
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  So essentially what that means is they're endorsing with the Whale
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  Sanctuary Project as an option.
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  So it doesn't mean that they're saying, Hey, France has not formally identified
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  that the Whale Sanctuary project is gonna be the place, but they've formally
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  identified as the preferred and ethical destination for the orcas and committed
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  to working towards that outcome.
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  I know a lot of you aren't gonna be happy about this.
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  People aren't buying into the Whale Sanctuary project for a number of.
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  It could be because one, they're American and they're working in Canadian waters.
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  They haven't gotten funding, which we'll talk about in a second.
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  Nothing is built yet, which we'll talk about as well.
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  So there's a lot of people who are against it.
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  This is not me endorsing it as well.
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  There's a lot to happen here.
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  I would like to see these animals free at some point.
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  Is it gonna be the Whale Sanctuary project?
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  Who knows?
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  But there's a case for it.
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  So this is a huge change.
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  As I mentioned before, France previously rejected the relocation plans, citing a,
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  you know, readiness and timing concern.
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  So the fact is there's nothing built for this whale sanctuary in Nova Scotia.
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  They don't have permissions, they don't have a lot of things, so
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  there's a lot of things that happen.
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  But this newsstand signals that the government now accepts the sanctuary
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  model as a viable and compliant with French animal welfare law.
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  So they must have done some talking or more research into what was planned here.
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  And again, I've said this in other episodes, this sanctuary, as I've
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  talked to the people of the whale sanctuary before, I've done interviews
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  with them before, a link to the show that I've done with them.
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  It's interesting to hear what they have planned.
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  This is not a plan where they just throw the animal in And then just leave it.
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  These animals have been a captivity for all of their lives, both animals.
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  So they have to say, okay, Wiki and Keho are here.
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  Say they arrive.
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  What happens?
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  They have to have full-time care.
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  They have to have people feeding it all the time.
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  They have to have veterinarians on staff to be able to look after these
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  animals and make sure that they are okay.
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  There's gonna be a lot of people looking at this.
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  This is a sanctuary model, just like Kako from the movie, free
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  Willy, just like that, that animal.
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  They have to watch everything.
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  They have to observe things, they have to test things out.
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  It is an experiment, but it's also an experiment of two very
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  sensitive animals have gone through a very traumatic life so far.
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  And so this is all gonna be new to them.
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  And so they're gonna have to watch this as much as possible.
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  So it's not as if they're just releasing it into the wild and hoping for the best.
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  So there's a lot of stuff that still has to happen before we go into it.
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  So here it is.
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  I'm gonna talk to you about what.
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  Hurdles need to be cleared before this can happen.
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  So the sanctuary infrastructure still needs to be completed.
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  It hasn't been completed yet.
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  Funding must be secured.
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  That's probably why the sanctuary infrastructure hasn't been cleared.
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  But also the transport logistics and veterinary plans must be finalized.
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  And the biggest thing that are really stopping all of this.
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  Canadian permits have to happen, and regulatory approvals are still required,
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  even so the people who live around there still have to approve the sanctuary.
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  And at this point, everything that I've seen, it doesn't look good.
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  It doesn't look good.
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  So there still has to have a lot of things that need to happen before that happens.
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  And also Marine Land's role in cooperation still matter in this.
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  So they have to prep the animals, they have to get it going.
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  I don't know from French law if they have to approve it.
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  I don't think they have to approve it, but I think the government of
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  France has kind of taken over and hoping for the best for these animals.
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  So we'll see what happens, but momentum has increased.
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  Just the process needs is not finished yet.
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  And when we talk about funding, this is a huge thing, right?
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  So the sanctuary welcomed France's decision that they wanna see this happen.
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  They've confirmed coordination with French authorities and with Marine Land
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  of ies, and they've emphasized a realistic timeline that could extend into the 2026.
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  A lot of things that I've seen, and I can't confirm if this is
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  right or not, but I've seen summer.
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  Of 2026.
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  That's six months away.
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  That's not far.
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  So that's gonna be really interesting to see if this happens.
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  But the optimism is paired with caution.
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  Right now in the bank, the sanctuary project has $2 million.
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  They need probably 12 to $15 million to complete the project,
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  the infrastructure, the care of the staff, all that kind of stuff.
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  This is like a big thing now.
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  Something that we've haven't talked about yet is what Canada has and has not set.
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  So the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans, which is in charge of
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  animal welfare within the government of Canada, has not issued any specific
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  public statement about France's decision yet as of this recording,
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  we have not heard from Canada.
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  This doesn't mean that they've rejected the idea and it doesn't
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  mean that they've approved it.
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  It just means that the process is probably still under review and
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  they're probably speaking with French authorities to find out.
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  How this is gonna go forward.
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  So silence is not necessarily approval or denial, it's just procedural right now.
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  And this could take longer than summer of 2026.
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  I feel like that's an optimistic date.
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  I'd love to hear what you think.
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  Let me know in the comments or go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.
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  I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
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  This is a big thing for releasing captive citations globally.
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  This is a big deal, right?
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  This decision strengthens the legitimacy of ocean sanctuaries
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  as alternative to tanks.
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  It sets a precedent for other countries and raises expectations
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  that governments must act when captivity is no longer legal or.
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  So this is a big change.
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  Like we've seen huge changes in the last like 15 to 20 years around cean captivity,
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  so whale captivity, dolphin captivity.
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  We've seen some aquariums release or plan to release captive dolphins.
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  We've seen some aquariums, release caico, like orcas has happened before.
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  We're starting to see precedents of this.
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  We're starting to see just captivity in general of whales and dolphins
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  and citations just stop altogether.
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  And so something has to be done with these animals now that
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  they can't be taken care of.
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  And now that there's no money coming into these facilities 'cause they
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  haven't changed their business model, how do we protect these
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  animals from their inevitable death in, you know, a very dismal.
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  Tank that's probably falling apart and that the water quality is going to crap.
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  Let's be honest.
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  That's what it's really going to.
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  So Wiki and Kajo could influence far more than their own future.
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  They could be the precedent of releasing captive whales into
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  seaside whale sanctuaries.
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  That's a huge thing.
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  Here's what you need to look for in the next steps of what's gonna happen.
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  Formal Canadian permitting steps need to be taken.
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  We need to hear from the Canadian government, the DFO Department
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  of Fisheries and Oceans, and we also need to hear what's
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  gonna happen with these permits.
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  Now that another government, a national government, is saying, Hey, you know what?
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  We're willing to part ways with Wiki Keho and have them come over to Nova Scotia.
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  We think it's actually a good idea.
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  Also construction milestones at the sanctuary must be met.
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  We need to see funding announcements to be met.
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  I have a feeling if this happens, there will be funding, whether
• 11:50
  it's crowdfunding or somebody else is gonna pony up a lot of money.
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  But you know, 12 to $15 million still needs to be raised for the sanctuary
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  to be constructed and actually happen.
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  And of course, official timelines from France.
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  And or the sanctuary need to be released.
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  We need to see what's gonna happen in all this.
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  When's construction gonna be done?
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  When's the permitting gonna happen so that the construction could be done?
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  Funding is gonna come through.
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  We'll see when that happens.
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  All these milestones and timelines need to be shared at some point.
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  But let's be honest, we've never been closer to a Marine sanctuary like this,
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  a whale seaside sanctuary than before.
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  You know, we've have seen it in the past to see it in Canada, my home country.
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  Kind of cool.
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  Will this fail?
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  It could.
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  It could fail.
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  That's the problem is like these are the lives of two sentient beings,
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  and we do not wanna see them die prematurely from being released
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  or even the travel over here, but we also don't wanna see them die.
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  A dismal death and a tank that's falling apart and with.
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  Terrible water quality.
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  I'd love to hear your thoughts 'cause I know a lot of you
• 12:50
  wanna share your thoughts.
• 12:51
  Let me know what you think in the comments below.
• 12:53
  If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on the
• 12:55
  audio podcast, that's wonderful.
• 12:57
  I love the fact that you're listening to that.
• 12:59
  Let me know what you think in our feedback link.
• 13:02
  Go to speak up for blue.com/.
• 13:04
  Feedback and let me know there.
• 13:06
  I would love to have a discussion with you.
• 13:08
  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 13:09
  I'm not here to agree or disagree, I just want to hear what you think.
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  So thank you so much for joining me today and listening to the saga that
• 13:16
  we've seen for captive whales and seeing if this is actually gonna happen.
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  We are closer than ever and it's gonna happen probably.
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  Faster than we think, whether we like it or not.
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  So let's see what happens.
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  Stay tuned, subscribe, follow whatever you need to do to make
• 13:29
  sure that you stay updated on this story and others around the ocean.
• 13:33
  I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the
• 13:35
  How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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  I'm your host, and/or and from the true nor strong and free.
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  Have a great day.
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  We'll talk to you next time.
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  And.