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Beyond the Mandate: Annie Payne on Building a Culture of Care in Special Ed · Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU

• 0:00
  Antonayah Ellis: Welcome to the Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU, where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your co host, Antonia Ellis.
• 0:08
  Matt Giovanniello: And I'm Matt Giovanello, the CEO and co founder of Frenalytics. Frenalytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award winning FrenalyticsEDU platform helps streamline progress monitoring, improve communication and compliance, and offers truly personalized learning to your students' availabilities.
• 0:25
  Antonayah Ellis: Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom changemakers, ed tech founders, and industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities. With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, Exceptional Educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome Annie Payne, who serves as the Director of Special Education for Enterprise Elementary School District in Northern California. In her role, she leads district wide efforts to provide high quality special education services to ensure compliance with idea and access to the least restrictive environment for our learners. Annie is committed to ensuring every child receives the individualized supports they need to thrive.
• 1:16
  Welcome to the podcast, Annie. We're so happy to have you here.
• 1:19
  Annie Payne: Thank you for having me.
• 1:20
  Antonayah Ellis: So we like to start off our podcast pretty, I hate using the word same, but I just feel like this is such a heart of an educator question. What is your why? What keeps you in education? And what just brought you here anyway, just to start with?
• 1:35
  Annie Payne: It's a great question. So when I graduated with my undergrad degree, I was going to take a year off to save some money before I went into law school and I became an aide in a classroom for students with significant disabilities. And those included, significant behavioral challenges as well. And I I fell in love. I fell in love with the joy of small wins and the simple successes and how I really found that I could impact my community, which was helping kids learn and learn in all areas.
• 2:07
  And so I said, scratch that. I'm gonna be a teacher. I'm gonna be a special ed teacher. And so I talked to the director of the program and at the time they helped fund my further education to get my credential and I've been in ever since. And so that's how I got started and what continues to keep me coming back every single day is, again, those small wins.
• 2:30
  You know, we have kiddos that people said were never gonna speak that are speaking. We have students who were taught that they couldn't be independent, who are showing independence in multiple aspects of their life, who get to have fun with us and get to just experience joy. There's nothing better.
• 2:47
  Matt Giovanniello: Annie, I love that. You could tell the joy is just emanating off of you. And when you first entered this field, it's clear to me that it going to be one that you plan on staying in for a long time. So thank you for committing to it and thank you for seeing the sheer potential and joy that the students with disabilities that you get to serve exhibit as well. I'm sure it's a two way street in how much joy they feed you and vice versa.
• 3:09
  One of my biggest kind of moments of working with students who would be considered in a life skills or a special day, a self contained environment is exactly that, their potential. I think that contrary to what we all now know on this podcast and hopefully our listeners too, students with disabilities in those more restrictive environments are typically either written off or not held to as high of a quality caliber or standard as their neurotypical peers. The way that we got started with our company within education was in that exact environment, on a high school life skills classroom in Southern California, in this case. At the peak of the pandemic, these students did not even have one to one devices. They were believed that they couldn't log in to Zoom, they couldn't log in to an email, so they just were never given Chromebooks and the pandemic necessitated that.
• 3:55
  It was amazing to see how when push came to shove and these students were forced to rise to the occasion, how they not only did that, but they exceeded those expectations. Five, six years later, here we are, and we're realizing that these students, even with more intensive needs, are very capable when the right staff members believe in them and give them the tools that they need to thrive. So my question for you in all of this, Annie, is I'd love for you to reflect on some of the successes at your elementary district and practical approaches that you found to be really effective for educating students with disabilities, especially ones with more intensive supports, alongside their gen ed neurotypical peers. What's worked especially well, especially as you advance on this inclusion journey for your students?
• 4:37
  Annie Payne: It's a great question. You know, I think first it comes with just addressing staff that all students are Gen Ed kids first. They're all kids first. And so helping shift that paradigm with the adults that we work with to understand that they're children and that everybody can learn. And so we constantly talk about how all kids can learn and it just depends on us.
• 5:00
  And so then as we start talking about inclusion, it's modeling for the adults how to help our students learn and to show them they're part of the community. One thing that I thought was really powerful at our small little schools, my personal children attend that school. And so we talk a lot about mom's special friends. And so when we talk about inclusion, my daughter was in TK and her name is Aurora. And so I said, Aurora, I have a friend that I need you to take to breakfast in the morning.
• 5:31
  So she started taking this nonverbal child with autism to the cafeteria in the morning, and then her little friend started playing. And it culminated to where the little girl had limited verbalizations, but she invited my child and these other Gen Ed students into her classroom to play dress up. And so then other people got to see that it didn't matter that this kiddo had language or not. Children can transcend that and make connections beyond. We started inviting our fifth grade students into our recess, our gen ed students there, and having them role model and play.
• 6:06
  And now they say hi to our kids. They eat lunch with them in the cafeteria. We invite them into some of our gen ed classes for arts or for music. And so I think it's just destigmatizing and showing that all kids can can learn and helping people to understand and then being willing to do it with them, come alongside them. There's some, some little examples.
• 6:27
  Antonayah Ellis: I mean, I couldn't help but to kind of just, hold on to your moment of your personal kids. Also being at the school where you work, I was a teacher. I had my daughter at the school where I worked. Definitely, I felt privileged to be not right there, but in the building. It's so cool for kids to say like, oh, my mom or my dad works here.
• 6:53
  Like, I'm okay, my mom is down the hall. I wanna know what is your experiences like with your kids being at your school? Do you find it hard? I know you're not necessarily working with them, but are there times when your baby needs you, but you are helping other kids? What is that like?
• 7:11
  What are some challenges that come with that?
• 7:13
  Annie Payne: Right. So, uniquely, my son is like a tank. He's pretty independent. He takes care of himself, but my daughter, my baby has life threatening food allergies. So there are times when she's on campus where, I mean, she's a section five zero four student where it's like, Oh my gosh, somebody's calling and it's okay, I've got a triage if you will.
• 7:33
  When does my baby really need me and when do my colleagues and friends, when do they got this? So it is a balance. As she's gotten older, I get to step back a little bit more, which is nice. I do feel privileged because I get to go and experience things like I can pop into their classroom and say hi real quick and their teachers are very understanding. But yeah, there have been times remember when Aurora first started school, I was at an administrator meeting off campus and the health clerk called me and said, Aurora's here and she's starting to swell and I panicked.
• 8:07
  And so I stood up and kind of yelled loudly, I gotta go, and rushed over there and she was fine. She had had some sort of light exposure, but no EpiPen. It is challenging, but it's also amazing. My son was in kindergarten, the teacher got sick and so I also have a gen ed credential. I got to take the kindergartners on there.
• 8:29
  I got to sub in the classroom and take them on a field trip to the pumpkin patch in the rain. And there were special friends in the class too, so it was great. They were like, was perfect person to go. Definitely lots of fun, lots of fun, but a balance for sure.
• 8:44
  Matt Giovanniello: That is so cute. Oh my gosh. It makes it that much more rewarding, I imagine, your day to day job when you realize the impact that it's having, not only on these students where you don't necessarily always get to connect home, but when you're realizing, oh my god, there's my son, there's my daughter. I'm the parent. Like it it must be a full circle experience for you and makes it makes your job that much more fulfilling, I imagine Annie.
• 9:03
  Annie Payne: It really does. I remember real quick, there was a young man in the office one time and he was having an emotional outburst. He was struggling. So I was in there and I was talking to somebody and I can't remember why my son was coming through. He's like, Hi, mom.
• 9:16
  And he says, Oh, mom, that's so and so. He's a special friend. It's okay. We understand his needs and we just let him take a breath. I was like, My work is done.
• 9:25
  Right? My work is done. My understands. He understands the adults have this. And I said, you're absolutely right, son.
• 9:31
  Go back to class.
• 9:32
  Matt Giovanniello: So cute. Annie, this is reminding me of a related topic and question that I wanted to get into on our conversation today. You mentioned before we started the recording that you're up in a pretty rural area of Northern California. It's a very different landscape than a lot of other districts, especially really large ones that we know are throughout the state of California. As it relates to recruiting, teaming, growing, and even identifying qualified teachers, especially in your special education program.
• 9:59
  What is the district doing that you feel like you're really ahead of yourself on compared to other small rural districts? And where do you think you might be heading in years ahead to keep your program really strong?
• 10:08
  Annie Payne: I think one of the things that the district does and they do really well is they're very cognizant of pay. I hate to start there, but really making sure educators feel supported with pay is important. And we were one of the first local districts to offer financial incentive to come in as a special educator. So I think that that has really enticed people to come in. Neighboring districts have done that as well, but we continue to look at our pay in relation to that.
• 10:33
  I think to keep people, we care about our people. And so we make sure that we provide a lot of support and training throughout the year. We have a robust professional development calendar. And then on top of that, I have offered biweekly virtual meetings with brand new teachers for open hours so that they didn't have to feel like they were bothering me by asking questions. I guarantee a response within twenty four hours unless it's a vacation.
• 10:58
  So really just trying to ensure that the people that we have working for us feel supported. And then making sure that when our educators are managing difficult situations, because special ed can have difficult situations, right? As the administrator or administrators, it's our job, I think, to carry that burden for our educators and show really giving our administrators the tools to be able to navigate those difficult situations so our educators feel like they can educate. Those are some of the ways that we we ensure that we keep quality people for our students.
• 11:30
  Matt Giovanniello: And I think it's also a matter of culture too, Annie, is like the underlying tone that I'm hearing here. And I think also as a district, you to be able to reflect and look in the mirror and say, how can we do better by our kids so that staff feel better supported along the way because there's stronger community support, there's stronger funding, there's stronger administrative leadership from the top. I think there's a lot of things that are going right for you to be able to say that so confidently, which is amazing. One of them you hinted at at the beginning of this conversation is the district's inclusion journey. Tell us about what inclusion looks like at the district right now, where you came from so we can understand how far you've come right now.
• 12:05
  And then also what next school year looks like years ahead look like to ensure an even greater guarantee of inclusion for your students.
• 12:11
  Annie Payne: Great question. So, you know, we get these metrics from the California Department of Ed that, you know, I call it our report card on how we're including our students into gen ed. And we we do a great job, and we've done a great job of including our students who maybe get resource support. We we do a great job of keeping kids out of separate schools. It's our special day classrooms that we have we have struggled.
• 12:33
  And so where we started targeting was those special day classrooms. And so, I have, again, a great team. My teachers are the best. I will challenge anybody that says that otherwise, but they started inviting Gen Ed kids into their classrooms. So sometimes our Gen Ed teachers were a little apprehensive about our special ed kiddos even if we would send support staff.
• 12:54
  So they said, hey. Come to us. And you know what? Why don't you go take a break? We'll cover your class.
• 12:59
  You send them to us. We've got the staff, and we'll come up with the activity. And so we extended our environment to our general education partners, and that's exactly what it became was a partnership. And so when we started serving our students with moderate to severe disabilities, similar mentality, and it was, can you send us some of your kiddos? And we will manage them.
• 13:21
  We will make sure things are taken care of. Why don't you take, you know, focus on your reading group or focus on something else and let us take that on for you. And it's been a huge success in just partnering and building a bridge with, inclusivity.
• 13:35
  Antonayah Ellis: I think that's so cool. My last year teaching fifth grade had, she's pretty much like my partner teacher, shout out to Ms. Glass. She was my push in for a couple of my special ed students in class. Sometimes she did some pull out, but there were some times where she was like, you know, I'm working with my group over here, but I noticed somebody on the other side of the room was having some similar challenges.
• 13:58
  Do you mind if I pull them over to my group or do do you mind if I just bring them all to my room? And it was kind of reversed. I wasn't really expecting her to take any of my kids that I keep all the time with her. And it was awesome. It was such a different model.
• 14:17
  It's not something that I feel like you usually see in the classroom. And that just built me and Ms. Glass's relationship to where we just became closer to where now we're kind of like co teaching. We were standing at the front of the classroom together. We were targeting different kids.
• 14:29
  We were popcorning around the room. And so I just wanna know like how many teachers are actually taking on that? Is it a challenge for teachers to be okay with that? And if so, what are some ways that you try to warm them up to, you know, they're all kids. These are, they're just kids.
• 14:47
  And eventually we do want our friends with special needs to be in your room as well. What are some ways that you warm teachers up to that idea?
• 14:55
  Annie Payne: We, you know, have regular conversations about, and again, it's that language, all kids are kids first. And so we highlight those things. So every month I send out a newsletter, it goes to multiple people in the district, including site leadership. And we demonstrate some of those small wins. We have, for example, a K2 special ed classroom and it's more on the moderate side of the mild mod at one of our sites, and the TK teacher has fallen in love with our students, whether they're second grade or TK.
• 15:23
  And so the teacher's going to be out for a few days, she's like, I'll take these five for most of the day. So we've got kids in reading groups in Gen Ed, and then we start modeling it to her partners, her Gen Ed partners. Then you've got other people who are taking the other students, or they're taking them for math and science. So then they start talking across the district. That's one way in which we've provided lighting that fire for inclusivity is just demonstrating that on a small scale.
• 15:54
  At our junior high only site, we have those teachers pushing in for math. We're working on our math scores, and the gen ed curriculum can't be beat. So what do we do? We support them in there. And similar to what you described.
• 16:05
  Right? If a friend needs help, come on over. We're happy to help all. And so that's another way that we are lighting that fire for inclusion of of getting our students served.
• 16:15
  Matt Giovanniello: I also need to add, Annie, that your answers here, you make this seem, dare I say, easy or effortless. We're talking about an over 500 student with IEP caseload in a district of 3,500 students across all grades. This not like, you know, we're operating a special education department of 50 kids. This is, you know, literally 10 times the size of that. And so I think that just that context is important to share in the wake of your just effortless answers.
• 16:40
  Like special ed just like comes easy, which is really refreshing because I think for a lot of people for far too long, special education has felt like this burdensome or overwhelming or like we can't tackle this kind of behemoth with an education. And I think that you bring a really refreshing stance. So just wanted to call that
• 16:56
  Annie Payne: Well, you. I appreciate that. Yeah. We we've actually grown. We're close to 600 kids in special ed.
• 17:01
  I think it's just finding people who are passionate about our kids. And so thank you for that compliment.
• 17:06
  Antonayah Ellis: I I'm always interested in the parents. What efforts or how do you include parents on whenever you're making these decisions for kids, whether it's pushing in, pulling out, just anything. I just remember when I had kids in class who needed some extra help, it was very rare that parents would answer the phone. It was very rare that parents would show up to annual like the arts. So I'm just really interested on your parents and how do they support?
• 17:34
  How do you get them more involved? And what kind of language do you use to get them to understand what's going on in the classroom and beyond? All of those things.
• 17:42
  Annie Payne: We have a small percentage where that is a struggle. If I start there, COVID, one good thing I dare say that COVID gave us is the ease of a virtual meeting. So that seems to have grabbed some more individuals who who struggle with getting in. I've knocked on doors multiple times. And so that's how when we're unable to get somebody responsive, you get to see me there on the door saying, hello, we need you.
• 18:05
  But we invite them to our schools. We invite them for fun. We have regular conversations about the relationship that needs to be built with our families. And so our teachers, we use ParentSquare, so daily communication electronically, which has helped because a lot of parents are tech savvy now instead of answering phone calls. Regular messages, they come to open house, they're part of the Christmas concert, so you gotta come and watch your kiddos sing Jingle Bells because it's super cute.
• 18:33
  And so TK Roundup, we invite our special ed friends to come to TK and join that madness and enjoy the fun that it is to welcome to kindergarten. Our kiddos participate in the gen ed. Of course they do. The gen ed graduation from eighth grade. And so all of our community sees these things.
• 18:51
  And so we, on a small scale, we call, we email, we use ParentSquare, and we just try to make them and their families feel loved and included in our community because they are part of our community.
• 19:05
  Matt Giovanniello: That is so cute. I love the the festive celebrations. And speaking of, it is mid November as we're talking here today, Annie, even though folks will start listening to this well into the new year. This upcoming Friday, have a special celebration. Tell us more about the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade of the West.
• 19:22
  Annie Payne: We do. We do. So our our students with moderate moderate to severe disabilities are hosting a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, and the entire school is participating. In fact, the rest of the school is going to be lining the corridors as our parade attendees with our fifth grade gen ed class. I will be, in my ball gown with my wireless mic narrating the event as they parade through the corridors and celebrate thanks Thanksgiving as only we can as inclusive, an inclusive group while everybody cheers, and it should be an outstandingly fun time.
• 19:57
  I'm hoping that my witch is quick so that I can narrate accordingly to keep everybody attending and paying attention. And I hope it doesn't rain, but if so, we'll be covered, but it should be a great time. I can't wait to do it.
• 20:09
  Matt Giovanniello: I can't wait indeed. We're going to need to send the crews, the television crews of NBC to film this live so it gets on our TVs here in New York.
• 20:15
  Annie Payne: I think we'll win.
• 20:16
  Matt Giovanniello: I think so too. Exactly. My vote my vote goes it goes to your district. On a series note that that is so fun and so cute and so innovative, and it's it's so heartening to see and hear. You'll need to send us a video of the outcome of the parade.
• 20:29
  You'll have somebody need somebody to go around with their phone and send it over to us. I'd love to see
• 20:32
  Annie Payne: Absolutely.
• 20:33
  Matt Giovanniello: Adorable. Adorable. I'd like to switch gears a little bit. Your computer screen behind you has SACEP, which for those who are not familiar with California's IEP compliance platform that most districts use, is that central spot to collect exactly that. Data on the nature of a student's present levels of performance, measurable annual goals, accommodations, modifications, services, everything in between that then gets reported to the state.
• 20:55
  Something we like to talk a lot about on this podcast is data, the D word. So first walk us through a little bit what data looks like and how it's embedded within your inclusion programs, within your resource room programs, and for your students with more moderate to severe disabilities, as it relates especially to our other favorite word on this podcast, progress monitoring. What data is collected right now? What opportunities for growth do you see? And how is it used across the different groups of staff working with a student, both in gen ed and in special ed?
• 21:23
  Annie Payne: Yeah. So, I mean, we pay attention to our statewide assessments, whether they're the gen ed SBAC scores or the California alternative assessment scores for our students with significant disabilities. Those are important, and they they trickle all the way down to preschool, the desired results developmental profile. So we are graded, if you will, by the state of California in those areas. And so we also monitor goal attainment.
• 21:45
  And so what we're looking at is moving kiddos towards gen ed standards as much as we can and what's taken into account their unique needs. So we start there. We also have some district level assessments for those kiddos that can access them, and we utilize those to write goals. And then we are taking data weekly as far as academic goals. I also, as we took back serving our students with moderate to severe disabilities, wanted to ensure that all of our students used evidence based curriculum.
• 22:13
  And so we really shopped around for a while to make sure we had the right evidence based curriculum for our students' unique needs. And that's both in our mildmod class and our modsevere classes so that we could meet their individual needs and get growth. Kids need to read. And so whether that's traditional reading or the utilization of alternative augmentative communication systems and icons and things like that. So we're monitoring that weekly.
• 22:35
  We're working towards grade level attainment or content standard attainment. And then we are also looking at life skills and social emotional behavioral. And so we were utilizing a database. I think now we've pivoted towards more of a classroom based spreadsheet where they're utilizing their own defined point system to give period level reflections on behaviors that we want to see. But we're constantly using data to move students forward.
• 23:07
  Those present levels drive everything right. And so we talk about present levels and if there's an area of need in one or all of those levels, I expect goals and then I expect data to support those goals. And so we we are talking about that and we brainstorm on ways. Okay. So we're looking at a vocational goal or an adaptive daily living skills goal.
• 23:24
  What does that look like? What data do we take to show progress? Gone are the days where somebody doesn't think so and so was able to meet this goal. I wanna see the data. And so those are some of the ways that we utilize it.
• 23:35
  Matt Giovanniello: One of the schools we partner with in Westchester County, New York, the director of special services on her desk, she has she has a sign that says data or it didn't happen. I was like, I love it. She's like, got it as a gift. And I must've said enough times that I, I drilled it into my staff's head that it came back to bite me. Now it's sitting on my desk somehow a gift in my own line.
• 23:56
  So funny. So, so, so funny.
• 23:57
  Antonayah Ellis: I'm interested in teachers finding time to log the data. So I just remember that constantly being a challenge for me as well as by partners. It's okay. Data, data, data, small group, small group, small group, good tier instruction and I have to go to the bathroom and I have to give so and so a hug because they came in really sad. And I have to give somebody a snack because I know that they're always hungry.
• 24:23
  And just in the midst of all of these things, then I gotta get the kids the specials on time. When or how are you encouraging teachers to log the data in a timely way to where they're not being overwhelmed and they're making the best of their time?
• 24:37
  Annie Payne: It's a great question. So, I mean, a balance, right? It's definitely a balance. I think for our our special day class teachers, they utilize the support from some of their support staff to assist with that. All of our resource teachers also have an instructional assistant that assists.
• 24:52
  But as we can, we try to schedule Fridays a little lighter for our resource teachers, more of a progress monitoring day. If a student needs to be seen five days a week, we of course, that's what we're going to do, but we try to look at that as a basis for, okay, does a student need to be seen by a special ed teacher every day? Again, inclusion first and so that allows for some M some data entry utilize the support staff and then as needed. I try and so do our school psychologist to simplify data, So let's not make it difficult. What are we really trying to gather?
• 25:27
  And let's make sure that we make it easy for you to gather that data so that it's not one more thing. And then as we're utilizing curriculum, weaving in some of their data gathering methods there so it's not something that they have to create.
• 25:39
  Matt Giovanniello: That is awesome that you have IAs. Tell us a little bit more about the role they play within each of the classroom environments, because I know IAs tend to be a little bit more of a California thing than some other districts. It might seem so innate and obvious to you, but for us outside of the state, like, that support is really helpful, and it's good to know that your district has it. What does that support in practice look like for the lead teacher in the room, and how are the delineation of duties being handled in part by IAs?
• 26:06
  Annie Payne: Yeah, they are vital. I mean, I don't think we could run our excellent programs without our instructional aids. So shout out to our aids. So in our resource program, they're running small groups, right? They can provide instruction under the Ed code without a teacher there as long as the teacher has provided them the tools and the initial instruction.
• 26:26
  So they're running groups. They're helping to progress monitor. In our special day classrooms, not only are they running groups, they're attending the kids' health needs. They're G tube feeding. They're teaching kiddos how to use the restroom.
• 26:37
  They're changing caps. They're changing colostomy bags. They're managing seizures. So they are literally at times the lifeline for our students and their health needs. In addition to teaching them addition or teaching them how to read, They are the individuals that help support kiddos when they need to take a break outside of the classroom or need a sensory some sensory input.
• 26:56
  So they are an extension of the teacher, and a lot of times, they are providing some more of that social emotional support that the teacher isn't able to because he or she is managing the majority of the other kids. But they they they do a lot in our classroom.
• 27:10
  Matt Giovanniello: They are jacks and drills of all trades. Yeah. Bar none. Like, that is that not even an exaggeration. It's amazing to see and hear examples of the medical end, the emotional end, the behavioral end, and on top of the academic end that, you know, by definition, that's what they're there to serve, but these students have much more expansive needs than just academic, as we know, and that's what makes IA so special.
• 27:34
  So yes, shout out and kudos to them. They're the real ones for meeting the needs of students, whatever they may be, because by moment to moment, we know those definitely change. So shout out to them.
• 27:44
  Antonayah Ellis: I just have a moment to share. Remember last or the last year I was in the classroom, I was pregnant with my son and I was so reliant on my push ins coming in, because I literally rotated them like they were just one big aid. Was like, Oh my gosh, you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I know you're here to work with this one student, but I really need you to work with this student and that student.
• 28:08
  And I really need you, like, it was just awesome to have somebody else present in the room, another adult who could just have eyes being one teacher in a room to 22 students pregnant or not. It's a lot to ensure that you're reaching everyone, that everyone is engaged and having another adult present in the room was awesome. Just for her to come and check the temperature and just, Hey, I noticed the student back here was kind of dozing off. I'm gonna take them outside and just kind of get them to stretch or just having that extra set of hands on deck. Feel like is awesome.
• 28:40
  And also probably gets your teachers in that just more freedom, just in a great mood to deliver top tier instruction and to just be available for students and be willing to be flexible because they know I have somebody else that I can depend on. I have somebody else that I can rely on. Kudos to you guys for not only having great teachers, but having great support systems for teachers. I feel like it can be almost a burden sometimes to take on all of those tasks. How or what are some things that you look for for a good instructional aid?
• 29:13
  And even whenever they're having those difficulties with the students, how do teachers help relieve them whenever they're having a hard time?
• 29:20
  Annie Payne: There's a basic criteria. They either have to pass a paraprofessional test or have some college units. Beyond that, some of the qualities that I'm looking for is understanding, right, dependability. And let me back up a little bit. When I say understanding, it's understanding of, the people that we serve, the children we serve.
• 29:38
  We're also a title one district, so we serve students with significant poverty, and that has its own culture and understanding that we have to be sensitive to. And so I want individuals who are open and are willing to love our kids. So that's what we're looking for is, and are you willing to learn? You've got to have a growth mindset because special ed requires a tremendous amount of flexibility on a day to day basis, minute by minute sometimes. And so you've got to be able to be flexible, you've got to be willing to jump in where needed, and you got to laugh.
• 30:08
  I mean, there's so much funniness that happens in our jobs. If you're just locked into whatever you think is is the way it's supposed to be, you miss you miss the joy. And so those are some of the qualities that I really look for is is that dependability, the understanding, and the humor, and just willing to work with our kids.
• 30:27
  Matt Giovanniello: That growth mindset piece is so important because beyond passing a paraprofessional test, you need to make sure that the staff that you're bringing into the district meet the culture and the needs of the students where they are. I'm glad that you're screening in that way. It probably speaks and attests to why you're not only recruiting and retaining, but why you're able to so successfully grow everyone within special ed from the director all the way down to your IAs and everything in between. Annie, I appreciate you sharing those all of those examples. We are also near the end of our time, which it just it's flying today's discussion, but I want to make sure we have time for one last question that we love to ask all of our guests, Annie.
• 31:01
  That question is, what does being an exceptional educator or being an exceptional leader mean to you?
• 31:06
  Annie Payne: I think being an Exceptional Educator means willing to serve all that show up to our, to my door. And that goes to the paraprofessionals, the teachers, the parents, any of the support staff is, is my job is to serve. To be an exceptional leader, I need to be willing and able to serve all of those individuals. And so it's being able to recognize that some days it's not about me, and I need to stop and listen, And I need to say I'm sorry when I mess up because I'm human too. But just keeping that mindset that I'm here to serve and I am here to help everybody see the potential for themselves and for others and to not lower my standards for any type of disability that somebody might say they can't.
• 31:55
  It's always, we can do, we can, we will get there. We just haven't gotten there yet. So it's also keeping that growth mindset.
• 32:02
  Matt Giovanniello: Exactly. Where there's a will, there's a way. And I'm so glad that you stick to your guns on that philosophy because it makes everybody in the district better, your staff, your students, the community, your building and your district leadership, you, and now everybody, all of us for listening to your beliefs and hopefully being able to spread the positive message, that growth mindset, and all the amazing examples you shared with us here today. You are exceptional. Your district is exceptional.
• 32:25
  The progress that you're making towards inclusion is inspiring, and I'm so glad that we got a front row seat to what that's going take over the past couple of years and what's to come. Thank you again for joining us for today's episode.
• 32:34
  Annie Payne: Thank you for having me. It was really fun.
• 32:36
  Matt Giovanniello: Well, was such a pleasure. Antonia, thank you again for leading today's conversation along with Annie, and for all of us listening to today's episode of the Exceptional Educators Podcast. Thank you again for joining us, and we look forward to seeing you on the next one.