Latest / Something Extra / Unlocking Bi-Directional Value w/ Jonathan Shroyer

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Unlocking Bi-Directional Value w/ Jonathan Shroyer · Something Extra

• 0:02
  Lisa Nichols: Chromosomes.
• 0:03
  Lisa Nichols: Little strands of nucleic acids and proteins are the fundamental genetic instructions
• 0:08
  Lisa Nichols: that tell us who we are at birth.
• 0:10
  Lisa Nichols: Most people are born with forty six chromosomes, but each year in the United
• 0:14
  Lisa Nichols: States, about six thousand people are born with an extra chromosome, making them a
• 0:18
  Lisa Nichols: person with Down syndrome.
• 0:20
  Lisa Nichols: If you've ever encountered someone with Down syndrome, you know that they are some
• 0:24
  Lisa Nichols: of the kindest, most joyful people you will ever meet.
• 0:27
  Lisa Nichols: They truly have something extra.
• 0:30
  Lisa Nichols: My name is Lisa Nichols, and for thirty years, I have been both the
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  Lisa Nichols: CEO of Technology Partners and the mother to Ali.
• 0:38
  Lisa Nichols: Ali has something extra in every sense of the word.
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  Lisa Nichols: I have been blessed to be by her side as she impacts everyone she
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  Lisa Nichols: meets.
• 0:46
  Lisa Nichols: Through these two important roles as CEO and mother to Ally, I have
• 0:50
  Lisa Nichols: witnessed countless life lessons that have fundamentally changed the way I look at the
• 0:54
  Lisa Nichols: world.
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  Lisa Nichols: While you may not have an extra chromosome, every leader has something extra that
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  Lisa Nichols: Before we get started, I'm excited to share that my book Something Extra is
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  Lisa Nichols: It is rooted in the remarkable spirit of our daughter, Ally, and the heartfelt
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• 1:44
  Lisa Nichols: Joining us today is Jonathan Shroyer.
• 1:46
  Lisa Nichols: Jonathan is the cofounder of Quimby dot a I.
• 1:50
  Lisa Nichols: Welcome to the Something Extra podcast.
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  Lisa Nichols: It's a delight to have you.
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  Lisa Nichols: You're sitting in San Francisco.
• 1:55
  Lisa Nichols: I'm sitting in Saint Louis.
• 1:56
  Lisa Nichols: Aren't you grateful for technology?
• 1:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: I know.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: Right?
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  Jonathan Shroyer: It's fantastic.
• 2:00
  Lisa Nichols: It is.
• 2:01
  Lisa Nichols: Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 2:03
  Lisa Nichols: You reached out to me,
• 2:05
  Lisa Nichols: through an agency.
• 2:07
  Lisa Nichols: And, when I looked at your profile, I'm like, definitely, this guy is somebody
• 2:11
  Lisa Nichols: we need to have on.
• 2:12
  Lisa Nichols: And, certainly, you've been in the tech space, and we're gonna talk a lot
• 2:15
  Lisa Nichols: about that.
• 2:15
  Lisa Nichols: And we're in the technology space, so I know we're gonna have fun.
• 2:18
  Lisa Nichols: But can you kinda take me back?
• 2:20
  Lisa Nichols: Because I know that you grew up as the eldest of ten children.
• 2:25
  Lisa Nichols: That had to have been a crazy fun time, right, with
• 2:29
  Lisa Nichols: that many siblings.
• 2:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 2:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think it I mean, I think it's fantastic to to be in
• 2:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: such a large family and to to learn.
• 2:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I had seven sisters, and I had two brothers.
• 2:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: We grew up you know, we're we're a little bit of a military family,
• 2:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: so we're all over, but most of the time was in Georgia and Texas,
• 2:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: and most of my formidable years were in Texas.
• 2:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: But, yeah, being in a large family, you learn different roles.
• 2:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: You pick up different skill sets, and and you actually have to be an
• 2:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: entrepreneur from the day one because you gotta battle for your for your own
• 3:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: what's important to you and that kind of stuff.
• 3:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and in my family, I was the one that was most technically interested.
• 3:08
  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
• 3:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so naturally, I I kind of have always kinda leaned towards
• 3:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: technology.
• 3:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: I remember, you know, my dad coming in at three in the morning
• 3:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: when I was playing on my three eighty six, and I was playing civilization.
• 3:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: And he was really frustrated at me because, you know, it was three in
• 3:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: the morning, and I was, like, eleven.
• 3:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, he came in and he said, I'm tired of this game.
• 3:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: Why are you staying up so late?
• 3:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: You need to sleep.
• 3:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: I'm gonna delete this game.
• 3:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then he sat down at the chair, and he's like, how do I
• 3:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: delete this game?
• 3:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: So, anyways, I've been a technologist from the early ages.
• 3:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: So you've done some good research.
• 3:42
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 3:43
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I remember the civilization games because our son
• 3:47
  Lisa Nichols: played those games too, and my husband played those games.
• 3:49
  Lisa Nichols: And they were kind of it was more than just for play.
• 3:53
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, there was strategy involved in that.
• 3:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 3:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right. L ike You're building an,
• 3:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: building an empire.
• 4:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 4:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: Totally.
• 4:01
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
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  Lisa Nichols: So I'm sure that there's some things that you learned about, you know, from
• 4:05
  Lisa Nichols: even that gaming.
• 4:07
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 4:08
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, growing up in that, you know, that large of a family,
• 4:12
  Lisa Nichols: what'd you learn about leadership?
• 4:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, I think the thing that I learned is it's super important to
• 4:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: understand the dynamics of a situation
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  Jonathan Shroyer: and understand, like, if it's never gonna work to tell people what
• 4:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: to do.
• 4:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: It's only gonna work if you can influence them.
• 4:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so so I have autism, and so growing up, like, I'm high functioning,
• 4:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: but, one of my
• 4:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: areas of challenge was social and emotional learning and really understanding
• 4:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: how to engage with the rest of society.
• 4:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And and so I actually I remember when I was in the seventh
• 4:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: or eighth grade, I said to myself, I said, you know what?
• 4:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: You've you're missing a beat.
• 4:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: You you you know a lot of stuff, but you don't know how to
• 4:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: interact with society.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you wanna interact with society or in your family and actually drive
• 5:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: influence, you're gonna have to learn what this emotional quotient
• 5:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: is.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And so then I set out on this journey to kinda figure out, like,
• 5:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: how do I not assimilate to society, but how do I integrate
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  Jonathan Shroyer: with society in the right way to make an impact, but also then respect
• 5:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: my own boundaries.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And so in a big family, you've gotta do that same thing, which is
• 5:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: you gotta figure out.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: You got seven sisters, two brothers, you know, parents, uncles, aunts.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: You know, like, how do you drive influence to get what it is that
• 5:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: you're trying to achieve and then also learn from them.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think there's an element early on that I identified the importance
• 5:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: of social emotional leadership.
• 5:41
  Lisa Nichols: That's great.
• 5:41
  Lisa Nichols: That's awesome.
• 5:43
  Lisa Nichols: That's awesome.
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  Lisa Nichols: We don't have a child with autism, but we have a child with Down
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  Lisa Nichols: syndrome.
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  Lisa Nichols: Now the thing is with Down syndrome, you know, the emotional
• 5:53
  Lisa Nichols: quotient side is really high.
• 5:55
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
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  Lisa Nichols: And sometimes it's the the basic things that are more of a struggle.
• 6:01
  Lisa Nichols: But, well, that's that's awesome that you were able to navigate
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  Lisa Nichols: that and learn very quickly that because I think emotional quotient
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  Lisa Nichols: I mean, I think emotional intelligence is sometimes more important even
• 6:13
  Lisa Nichols: than the other.
• 6:14
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
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  Lisa Nichols: And,
• 6:16
  Lisa Nichols: yeah, totally.
• 6:17
  Lisa Nichols: Totally.
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  Lisa Nichols: And leadership and, just life in general, I think.
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  Lisa Nichols: So I know that you were fascinated by maps and geography
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  Lisa Nichols: as a child.
• 6:26
  Lisa Nichols: I read that.
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  Lisa Nichols: You drew the entire world by hand.
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  Lisa Nichols: You know, was that a was that a foreshadow, you know, that early,
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  Lisa Nichols: curiosity about networks?
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  Lisa Nichols: Is that kind of a foreshadow into what you're doing with technology and
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  Lisa Nichols: networks now?
• 6:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think so.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: Like so I was always interested and very curious on how things were connected.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think that's why I got into geography, like, in the second,
• 6:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: third grade.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And and that's why I would memorize maps and stats and all kinds of
• 7:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: different things.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And then I started drawing because I was super interested in, like, you know,
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  Jonathan Shroyer: how do how does this all connect together, and how does how does the
• 7:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: world work?
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And then, like, later in life, you know, you you kind of made
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  Jonathan Shroyer: an implication of, like, the story of how it was started,
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  Jonathan Shroyer: which is me sitting on this exact chair.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, I was laying back thinking about, you know, the the
• 7:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: future of human capital.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And then immediately, the idea of a network with
• 7:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: hubs and nodes, where, you know, the humans were
• 7:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: the the nodes and the hubs were technology companies or technology itself.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And how do you connect them and create bidirectional value kinda came into my
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  Jonathan Shroyer: head, and it then it reminded me of my Wi Fi network in
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  Jonathan Shroyer: my house where I have mesh networks everywhere.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you have a weak node, then it's the output is not gonna
• 7:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: be great.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And so it made me really think about human capital and technology and how
• 7:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: you need to make sure that each component part of the the human network
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  Jonathan Shroyer: is is operating and performing in a high function way or being
• 8:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: empowered to do that or or incentivized in order to get that network
• 8:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: effect.
• 8:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so, yeah, I I've always been curious on kinda how things connect.
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  Jonathan Shroyer: And naturally in technology, there's large connectivity, especially with the the
• 8:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: the Internet of things over the last decade.
• 8:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: There's large connectivity and people understanding more the value of
• 8:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: that connectivity.
• 8:28
  Lisa Nichols: That's really good.
• 8:29
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 8:30
  Lisa Nichols: Well, can I ask you this?
• 8:32
  Lisa Nichols: You said that one of your your purpose, I think even in high
• 8:36
  Lisa Nichols: school I mean, you had some big goals, and we'll talk about that.
• 8:40
  Lisa Nichols: But you said that, really, your purpose was to be one of the helpers.
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  Lisa Nichols: And what does that look like in your life today?
• 8:48
  Lisa Nichols: And you have said that you had helpers along the way, and I'd love
• 8:52
  Lisa Nichols: for you to maybe pick one of those and and tell us the story
• 8:55
  Lisa Nichols: about that.
• 8:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think I think it was, you know, growing up, you know, watching
• 9:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: Sesame Street and PBS and mister Rogers.
• 9:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think mister Rogers, you you know, was was really good about
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  Jonathan Shroyer: the importance of being one of the helpers.
• 9:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think he used to everyone's a little bit different, but this is the
• 9:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: way that he used to do.
• 9:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: He used to pick a list of a hundred people and pray for them
• 9:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: every day, and then he would set about his life to try to just
• 9:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: be a helper
• 9:24
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 9:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: To be an enabler.
• 9:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I think kind of growing up, you know, you play everyone plays slightly
• 9:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: different roles in family and society, but I've always I've always felt
• 9:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: the greatest amount of vibration and energy when I was helping somebody
• 9:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: versus when I was doing something for my own volition or my own,
• 9:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: you know, ego or whatever.
• 9:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think that's, like, been super important to me to, like, how
• 9:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: do I how do I do that in a meaningful way personally and then
• 9:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: professionally?
• 9:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: How do I how do I do that in a way that can drive
• 9:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: business value?
• 9:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: So then it's a kind of win win situation on both sides.
• 10:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think for me growing up, I had a ton of different helpers.
• 10:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: I remember I had this I had a really good boss when I was
• 10:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: in my mid twenties.
• 10:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, one of the things that he did really well was
• 10:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: negotiate
• 10:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: and understand how to motivate and build human relationships,
• 10:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: which is something I was I really I mean, I've struggled with most of
• 10:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: my life, you know, with, you know, with things that we talked about earlier.
• 10:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: But he I I I intentionally took a job with him so that I
• 10:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: could learn, like, how do you actually engage with people?
• 10:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: How do you talk to people?
• 10:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: How do you how do you learn emotional quotient?
• 10:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so just observing him and learning from him and understanding, like, how he
• 10:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: engaged with people in meetings, how he talked.
• 10:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: It was a great
• 10:47
  Jonathan Shroyer: talked.
• 10:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: It was a great example for me where I wasn't actively saying I'm working
• 10:51
  Jonathan Shroyer: for you for this reason.
• 10:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: It was me just knowing that, like, over the next eighteen
• 10:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: to twenty four months, I'm gonna learn a ton.
• 10:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I did.
• 11:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: I learned with that boss and my next boss, which were intentional
• 11:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: EQ, bosses I wanted to report to, was I really
• 11:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: learned the importance of building
• 11:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: relationships that are meaningful, that are trust based, that are not all based on
• 11:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: ulterior motives and those types of things.
• 11:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and what I was able to do from that is be able to
• 11:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: say, okay.
• 11:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: Now that I know how to engage appropriately with society, then I can actually
• 11:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: be the helper that I wanna be.
• 11:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because what I found and my wife is she's lovely in in coaching and
• 11:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: mentoring me.
• 11:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: But she would often say people, when they first
• 11:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: would meet me in my twenties, they didn't like me until they got to
• 11:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: know me.
• 11:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: And she said, it's not like you're a mean person or a rude person.
• 11:47
  Jonathan Shroyer: You're just difficult to get to know.
• 11:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so with social emotional learning and learning from those bosses, it
• 11:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: gave me that opportunity to be able to be kind of engaging from day
• 11:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: one.
• 11:58
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 11:58
  Lisa Nichols: Makes sense.
• 11:59
  Lisa Nichols: So when you think about that particular boss and was this when you were,
• 12:03
  Lisa Nichols: supporting Microsoft Windows?
• 12:06
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 12:07
  Lisa Nichols: On the phones and that.
• 12:09
  Lisa Nichols: You know, when you think about that particular boss, Jonathan, what kinds of things
• 12:15
  Lisa Nichols: did you notice that he would do that, you know, really
• 12:20
  Lisa Nichols: helped engage and and helped build a bridge between another human being
• 12:24
  Lisa Nichols: quickly.
• 12:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: I I think the first thing that I noticed he did was actually before
• 12:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: the meeting.
• 12:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: He would sit down with me because I was his business manager.
• 12:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: So he would sit down with me, and he would talk about the
• 12:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: person.
• 12:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: He would talk about what motivates them, what their interests are.
• 12:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: He would talk about what they probably wanna get out of the meeting.
• 12:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: So what are their goals, their objectives?
• 12:47
  Jonathan Shroyer: He'd talk about our goals and our our objectives.
• 12:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then when we get into the meeting, he'd focus heavily on, you know,
• 12:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: how do I weave a conversation where it's where it's
• 12:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: it feels really strongly like mutual benefit, and so both
• 13:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: sides are getting, you know, a win out of it.
• 13:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: You know, he would always say it it never feels good if
• 13:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: I win and get what I want, but the other side doesn't feel good.
• 13:12
  Lisa Nichols: And they don't.
• 13:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: He said, so you really have to you know, you're always negotiating for yourself
• 13:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: and for your agenda and your what you want, but you have to be
• 13:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: mindful that it's never a long term relationship if it's not win
• 13:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: win.
• 13:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: Long term.
• 13:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: Not win win short term.
• 13:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: Win win long term.
• 13:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so so then then then we would do a wrap up of the
• 13:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: meeting and then talk about how it went, what do we learn from it.
• 13:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so we would do that so often that, as you know, once you
• 13:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: do something, you know, twenty one, twenty eight times in a row, it becomes
• 13:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: natural.
• 13:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: It becomes seg in nature, and your brain gets trained in that way.
• 13:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so just over time, I just learned how to naturally be that way.
• 13:48
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, that's so good.
• 13:49
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 13:50
  Lisa Nichols: We we've always said that too.
• 13:51
  Lisa Nichols: We you know, you wanna create we always say we wanna create win win
• 13:55
  Lisa Nichols: win.
• 13:55
  Lisa Nichols: We wanna create win for our people, our employees, our clients, and
• 13:59
  Lisa Nichols: then also, you know, the business.
• 14:01
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 14:02
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 14:02
  Lisa Nichols: So, it's it's so important that doesn't if you if you have a
• 14:06
  Lisa Nichols: if you're winning and they're losing, it's a it's a loss Yeah.
• 14:10
  Lisa Nichols: Really.
• 14:10
  Lisa Nichols: So,
• 14:13
  Lisa Nichols: yeah, so I know that, you know, you've even said that service really
• 14:17
  Lisa Nichols: is in your DNA.
• 14:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 14:19
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm gonna go back to first grade Yeah.
• 14:22
  Lisa Nichols: Because I'm thinking you saw your sister being bullied, I think,
• 14:27
  Lisa Nichols: on the playground.
• 14:28
  Lisa Nichols: And I love it because you're just big brother.
• 14:31
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 14:31
  Lisa Nichols: You just came and instinctively acted.
• 14:33
  Lisa Nichols: Acted.
• 14:33
  Lisa Nichols: Do you think that that might have been maybe one of your first leadership
• 14:38
  Lisa Nichols: moments about, like, helping others is really important?
• 14:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, I think so.
• 14:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, I've I've always
• 14:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: it was my sister, Cassandra.
• 14:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: She's so lovely.
• 14:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: So, yeah, I was in the classroom, and she was on the re on
• 14:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: in recess.
• 14:51
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think it was three or four boys or five.
• 14:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: We were kind of picking on her, and I just saw through the window,
• 14:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: and I just jetted out of the class.
• 14:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then I went and you know?
• 15:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: I did what I did what needed to be done, and then left her
• 15:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: alone.
• 15:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: But, you know, I think that oftentimes with seven sisters, you you get
• 15:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: to understand
• 15:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: the importance of women in society, and you get to understand
• 15:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: also how women are mistreated in society.
• 15:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think from a young age, just being raised essentially by those
• 15:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: seven sisters.
• 15:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right?
• 15:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: It it taught me the importance of looking out for the people
• 15:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: that can't look out for themselves, either because of their abilities
• 15:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: or because the way that culture or society is set up.
• 15:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think that that's always I think that's always what's been interesting
• 15:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: to me is really, like, how do you help those that aren't able to
• 15:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: help themselves?
• 15:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I really feel that anybody that has abundance, anyone that has influence
• 15:51
  Jonathan Shroyer: in their life, they should be doing that.
• 15:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: That that should be their motto.
• 15:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: They should be driven by that ethos.
• 15:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: And because I think that's the way that that it's in it's the world
• 16:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: is intended to work, the universe.
• 16:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: Whoever you believe created it is irrelevant.
• 16:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: The universe is intended to help each other, and so I think that that's
• 16:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: super important.
• 16:10
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 16:11
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, I cannot agree more.
• 16:13
  Lisa Nichols: I cannot agree more with that.
• 16:14
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 16:16
  Lisa Nichols: You've worked across many global companies, Microsoft, Symantec,
• 16:20
  Lisa Nichols: Autodesk, Kanban, Postmates.
• 16:22
  Lisa Nichols: You've before founding your own company.
• 16:25
  Lisa Nichols: What is the common leadership thread that would connect all those
• 16:29
  Lisa Nichols: experiences?
• 16:30
  Lisa Nichols: Is there,
• 16:32
  Lisa Nichols: you know, a leadership principle that you saw, like, glow I mean,
• 16:36
  Lisa Nichols: these are global companies.
• 16:38
  Lisa Nichols: So what would that be for you, the the leadership principle
• 16:42
  Lisa Nichols: that would connect all of those, the common thread?
• 16:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 16:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, I think that it's super important to be accountable.
• 16:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: Accountable to yourself, accountable to your team, accountable to your vision, your company.
• 16:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, there when I first started with Microsoft, they held it was back in
• 16:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: two thousand one.
• 16:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: But they had this
• 17:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: kind of internal company,
• 17:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: kind of kind of memo tagline called culture of accountability,
• 17:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: and how do you build that?
• 17:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I and I feel like a lot of times, that's missed.
• 17:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 17:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: As as we've grown and as we've, matured and evolved
• 17:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: as a society, that culture of accountability is so important.
• 17:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: And accountability looks a little bit different for each person.
• 17:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: They but I think that, like, you have to hold yourself accountable.
• 17:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: You have to hold your team accountable.
• 17:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: And sometimes accountability is joy.
• 17:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's happiness.
• 17:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's celebration.
• 17:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: Sometimes accountability is tough messages, difficult choices.
• 17:42
  Lisa Nichols: Candid conversations.
• 17:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, candid conversations.
• 17:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think that that accountability is what allows
• 17:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: you as a leader or as a professional or even as a parent
• 17:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: to be able to to have the the relationships and the influence
• 17:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: that you need and the trust that's required for you to do what
• 18:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: needs to be done in the world to make the impact that you wanna
• 18:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: make.
• 18:05
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 18:06
  Lisa Nichols: That's really that's good.
• 18:07
  Lisa Nichols: That's interesting.
• 18:08
  Lisa Nichols: And I couldn't agree more.
• 18:10
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, accountability.
• 18:11
  Lisa Nichols: And sometimes
• 18:12
  Lisa Nichols: sometimes, that's why you sometimes find individual contributors
• 18:17
  Lisa Nichols: that find it really hard to manage people people because they
• 18:21
  Lisa Nichols: they don't have those accountability systems in place.
• 18:23
  Lisa Nichols: But Yeah.
• 18:24
  Lisa Nichols: Without that right?
• 18:25
  Lisa Nichols: And and it's not really fair to to the organization, you
• 18:30
  Lisa Nichols: know, to not have those systems in place.
• 18:33
  Lisa Nichols: Well, at what point did you know?
• 18:36
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I know because I think I read this.
• 18:38
  Lisa Nichols: I think at the age of, twenty, like, twenty one
• 18:43
  Lisa Nichols: yeah.
• 18:44
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, no.
• 18:44
  Lisa Nichols: You had a plan.
• 18:45
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know when you created the plan, but it was a twenty year
• 18:47
  Lisa Nichols: plan, Jonathan.
• 18:49
  Lisa Nichols: And you said I wanna be the CEO by the time I'm twenty one,
• 18:52
  Lisa Nichols: and that's crazy.
• 18:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 18:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: So when I was twenty one, I built the twenty year plan.
• 18:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I've so the plan was four pronged.
• 19:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so there was a family component.
• 19:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: There was a financial component, career component, and then a component
• 19:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: like owning houses, owning cars, that kind of stuff.
• 19:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so then I had built out the plan.
• 19:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think it was twenty one, twenty four, twenty seven, thirty, thirty three, thirty
• 19:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: six, and forty.
• 19:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I had objectives that I had written out that I wanted to achieve
• 19:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: in each of those areas.
• 19:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 19:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and what I found is by the time I was forty, with the
• 19:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: exception of one piece, I'd achieved everything that I had written
• 19:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: in that plan.
• 19:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I think for me, that was a testament that if you write it
• 19:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: down and you revisit it
• 19:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 19:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: There's a higher likelihood that you're going to achieve it.
• 19:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you write it down, you revisit it, and you talk about it,
• 19:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: then the universe knows what you want.
• 19:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think it's it's those things are really critical.
• 19:49
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 19:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, yeah, so I think I I give I became a CEO
• 19:53
  Lisa Nichols: At the age of forty one.
• 19:54
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 19:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 19:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right right at the end of the twenty year plan.
• 19:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 19:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: And that was that was the capstone moment.
• 19:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then I and then from there, the the the one piece that I
• 20:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: hadn't achieved was having a child, which I wanted to have a child.
• 20:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I just shortly thereafter had Anderson, my my son.
• 20:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so and so this this next season of life has all been about,
• 20:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: you know, how to parenthood, learning, growing on the personal side.
• 20:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then it's all been about, okay.
• 20:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: Now now that now that become a CEO, how do I help other people
• 20:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: get to where they wanna go with their goals?
• 20:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then how do I build and scale interesting projects that are helping
• 20:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: other people succeed?
• 20:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: And that's where so my next twenty years is really leaning into, like, the
• 20:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: the more of the helper focus and less on these personal kind
• 20:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: of goals.
• 20:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's more about, like, how do I reach back and help other people?
• 20:44
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 20:44
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, really, to help other people, especially to reach their goals, you
• 20:48
  Lisa Nichols: kinda had to go through some of those things yourself.
• 20:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 20:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 20:51
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 20:51
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, how can you help someone else if you've not really done it
• 20:54
  Lisa Nichols: yourself?
• 20:55
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 20:55
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 20:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 20:56
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 20:57
  Lisa Nichols: Well, we've already talked about it just a little bit, but Officium,
• 21:01
  Lisa Nichols: was your first company, Officium labs, and you cofounded it.
• 21:05
  Lisa Nichols: And I love this, Jonathan, because I know Officium is Latin
• 21:09
  Lisa Nichols: for service.
• 21:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 21:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: Intentional.
• 21:13
  Lisa Nichols: Intentional.
• 21:14
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 21:15
  Lisa Nichols: And so I love it.
• 21:16
  Lisa Nichols: It just kind of all, like I just look at your life and I'm
• 21:20
  Lisa Nichols: thinking, oh, wow.
• 21:21
  Lisa Nichols: This this plan really has played out, because, you know, with
• 21:25
  Lisa Nichols: wanting to serve other people and being a helper.
• 21:30
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me okay.
• 21:31
  Lisa Nichols: So this is pretty remarkable because we just went through our whole,
• 21:35
  Lisa Nichols: we measure we've measured our NPS for years,
• 21:40
  Lisa Nichols: as many years as I can remember, honestly.
• 21:42
  Lisa Nichols: And, but I know, like, during the pandemic, you achieved,
• 21:47
  Lisa Nichols: like, a hundred NPS score, which is really remarkable.
• 21:52
  Lisa Nichols: What did you do differently, do you think, to create that kind of culture
• 21:56
  Lisa Nichols: in such a really hard time?
• 21:58
  Lisa Nichols: It was a difficult time for for a lot of companies.
• 22:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, I think what was critical, and I think what's critical with any culture,
• 22:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: is everyone needs to be bought into the direction of the culture.
• 22:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: They need to understand their purpose on what they're buying into, the purpose
• 22:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: to towards the vision, and then they need to understand their impact.
• 22:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: So if you if there's an alignment on vision, alignment on purpose,
• 22:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: alignment on impact, and then they receive the incentives,
• 22:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: whatever the incentives are for the effort, then it's a lot
• 22:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: easier for companies to get a higher NPS,
• 22:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: because the output of what they're delivering to the customers is going to be
• 22:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: ten x more valuable than if Right.
• 22:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: If if any of those elements aren't working.
• 22:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: And if those four elements are working, it naturally creates trust.
• 22:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: And the minute that there's immense trust inside of an organization,
• 22:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: then the bumps are easier to handle.
• 22:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: The stress is easier to handle.
• 23:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: The challenges are easier to handle.
• 23:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think that's those are the three things that I really focus on
• 23:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: with the overlay of incentivization that's aligned, and then focusing
• 23:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: on that trust.
• 23:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because then it'll it it's really that that element.
• 23:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think I used to say the customer is the heart of the company,
• 23:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: but employees are the lifeblood.
• 23:20
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 23:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so, like, if you want employees to be the lifeblood, which operates almost
• 23:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: everything in the body outside of the heart, then and you want the body
• 23:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: to function and be high performing, like, you gotta take care of your blood.
• 23:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I think that's that's the intent of that metaphor.
• 23:35
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 23:36
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 23:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Lisa Nichols: We've always said if we take care of our employees, the people that are
• 23:40
  Lisa Nichols: doing the work, they, in turn, will take care of our customer,
• 23:44
  Lisa Nichols: then our success will follow.
• 23:47
  Lisa Nichols: And, yeah, I really I do believe that.
• 23:50
  Lisa Nichols: Well, that's congratulations on that.
• 23:52
  Lisa Nichols: That's not easy to, to get that kind of NPS.
• 23:57
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Lisa Nichols: And we've talked about this a little bit.
• 24:01
  Lisa Nichols: You know, you you say your goal is to create bidirectional value
• 24:05
  Lisa Nichols: for customers and talent.
• 24:07
  Lisa Nichols: You've you've talked about that a little bit, but there's anything else that you
• 24:10
  Lisa Nichols: wanna unpack about that, Jonathan?
• 24:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, I mean, I think it's just important for companies to understand and for
• 24:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: leaders to understand.
• 24:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, whether you're in, you know, in my net network mesh network
• 24:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: kind of analogy or whether you're just in a large community or organization,
• 24:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, it's it's really important that people have self awareness
• 24:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: to understand what is the motivation of those around you, what
• 24:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: is their intention,
• 24:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: and then what are their goals.
• 24:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you're going to be a great leader or even a great team
• 24:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: member or community contributor, you have to understand those things
• 24:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: and realize that your ambition is not the priority.
• 24:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you can if you can understand that, you could take a step
• 24:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: back.
• 25:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it's almost like you're not you're not the actor in the movie.
• 25:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: You're the director.
• 25:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right?
• 25:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: If you can do that, then you can really start to think about other
• 25:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: people first.
• 25:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then you can still accomplish your goals.
• 25:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: Maybe the pace is different, but you can still accomplish your goals.
• 25:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: And you can actually accomplish your goals better because you have other people with
• 25:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: you rather than trying to achieve it, you know, yourself.
• 25:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: And you have their vibration, their their energy all kinda connected with you.
• 25:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: So the idea behind this is that bidirectional value, if
• 25:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: value is passing back and forth, if positive vibrations are passing back and
• 25:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: forth between you and I like they are right now, then the meaning
• 25:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: is gonna be fantastic and that we're gonna wanna hang out together again.
• 25:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: We're going to do cool things together again.
• 25:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: And when you want to be around somebody and they want to be around
• 25:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: you, it ten x's the output of both of you.
• 25:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: Absolutely.
• 25:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: Kind of the that's kind of the philosophy behind the bidirectional value.
• 26:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 26:01
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 26:01
  Lisa Nichols: I love it.
• 26:02
  Lisa Nichols: And there are a lot of components to that, to that.
• 26:05
  Lisa Nichols: I was just trying to think, and, I love this proverb.
• 26:09
  Lisa Nichols: And I'm my my brain is probably foggy because I'm on some cold medication
• 26:13
  Lisa Nichols: right now.
• 26:14
  Lisa Nichols: But it's, you know, if you want to go if you wanna go fast,
• 26:18
  Lisa Nichols: go alone.
• 26:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yes.
• 26:20
  Lisa Nichols: But if you wanna go far, go together.
• 26:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 26:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 26:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 26:23
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Lisa Nichols: And, and it's so much more fun.
• 26:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 26:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's true.
• 26:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's true
• 26:27
  Lisa Nichols: To go together.
• 26:28
  Lisa Nichols: Nobody wants to get to the top of the summit by themselves.
• 26:31
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 26:32
  Lisa Nichols: True.
• 26:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's true.
• 26:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's true.
• 26:33
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, good.
• 26:34
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I've got a lot more questions for you, but we do need to
• 26:36
  Lisa Nichols: take a quick break.
• 26:37
  Lisa Nichols: And we'll be right back on the Something Extra podcast with Jonathan Shroyer.
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• 27:12
  Lisa Nichols: Welcome back, everyone, to the Something Extra podcast with
• 27:16
  Lisa Nichols: Jonathan Shroyer.
• 27:17
  Lisa Nichols: So, Jonathan, I wanna ask you this.
• 27:20
  Lisa Nichols: You have quoted Nelson Mandela's I never lose.
• 27:24
  Lisa Nichols: I either win or learn as your guiding philosophy.
• 27:28
  Lisa Nichols: Can you share just one learning moment maybe that has shaped you the most?
• 27:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I I was twenty eight years old,
• 27:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: like, my first executive role.
• 27:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it it the company I was working with, they did a three sixty
• 27:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: kind of boss review.
• 27:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so that your employees anonymously would fill out all this, you know, information
• 27:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: about you.
• 27:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right?
• 27:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, from my perspective, everything was going swimmingly.
• 27:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, I mean, the organization was performing well.
• 28:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: Output was fantastic.
• 28:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: ROI was great.
• 28:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I get this I get this kind of report back,
• 28:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: and everything was great except for there was one area,
• 28:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: and it was people.
• 28:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: People trust, people relationship, people respect those.
• 28:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it really kinda hit me like a dagger.
• 28:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: It might have, like, you know, made me a little down for a little
• 28:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: bit.
• 28:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 28:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: But but one of the because, you know, I've it's an area that I've
• 28:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: tried to focus on.
• 28:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: I tried to work on.
• 28:32
  Lisa Nichols: Work on.
• 28:32
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 28:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it's not it's not my strength.
• 28:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: But and so I had one of two ways to kind of approach
• 28:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: this.
• 28:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: I could either get mad at everyone and just say you're all wrong.
• 28:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: I'm the best boss in the world.
• 28:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: You know?
• 28:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: Or I could say, what are they teaching me?
• 28:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: You know?
• 28:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: What gift have I been given even if I don't like the taste of
• 28:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: it?
• 28:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: What gift have I been given?
• 28:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: So then I could then learn from it.
• 28:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I it was at that moment that I was like, okay.
• 29:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: I'm gonna get a career coach.
• 29:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: I'm gonna go to emotional coach and training.
• 29:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: I'm gonna get a mentor.
• 29:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I really made a concerted effort
• 29:08
  Lisa Nichols: Potential.
• 29:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: To figure out, like, okay.
• 29:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: The people around me are not going to get me work to where I
• 29:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: need to go in this area.
• 29:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, I don't have the right examples.
• 29:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: And that's when the boss that we were talking about earlier, I intentionally reached
• 29:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: out to him and said, I need to come work for you.
• 29:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: Give me whatever job you wanna give me.
• 29:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: It doesn't need to be an executive executive role.
• 29:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: I just seem to be working for you for the next three years.
• 29:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I took, I guess, what people might consider to be a demotion,
• 29:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: but I took, you know, I took five years off of executive leadership so
• 29:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: I can figure out how to master this this capability, or this
• 29:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: attribute.
• 29:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then after five years, I was I felt comfortable going back to it.
• 29:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: But, yeah, that was a learning moment for me.
• 29:46
  Lisa Nichols: Wow.
• 29:47
  Lisa Nichols: I love that.
• 29:50
  Lisa Nichols: Last week, I have a friend that was talking about failure, and he
• 29:54
  Lisa Nichols: said there's only two kinds of failure.
• 29:57
  Lisa Nichols: Failure when you don't try and failure if you don't
• 30:01
  Lisa Nichols: learn.
• 30:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 30:03
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 30:04
  Lisa Nichols: I just, you know, and to your to your point
• 30:08
  Lisa Nichols: earlier, you know, didn't feel good.
• 30:10
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 30:10
  Lisa Nichols: It's like, what is this gift?
• 30:12
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it is a gift.
• 30:13
  Lisa Nichols: Feedback is a gift.
• 30:15
  Lisa Nichols: Didn't feel good, but, really, getting that feedback,
• 30:19
  Lisa Nichols: Jonathan, has helped you be so much more who you're
• 30:23
  Lisa Nichols: meant to be.
• 30:24
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 30:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 30:26
  Lisa Nichols: That's right.
• 30:26
  Lisa Nichols: So that's good.
• 30:29
  Lisa Nichols: I know that you have, you know, lived and led across
• 30:33
  Lisa Nichols: multiple continents, London, India.
• 30:36
  Lisa Nichols: You've you've been lots of different places.
• 30:38
  Lisa Nichols: Is there a global perspective really that is influenced your
• 30:43
  Lisa Nichols: leadership style?
• 30:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think it's something that I learned in Europe.
• 30:47
  Jonathan Shroyer: And in America, we tend to be capitalistic and competitive.
• 30:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: And in Europe, they tend to be more collaborative in business.
• 30:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: And even in in Asia, they tend to be somewhat more collaborative.
• 31:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think the leadership principle I took away from Europe, which I've
• 31:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: always tried to instill in any company I've worked at, is how do we
• 31:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: collaborate even if with competitors?
• 31:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: How do we collaborate and make what we're trying to do more meaningful
• 31:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: and more interesting for our customers?
• 31:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: Everything doesn't have to be cutthroat.
• 31:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: Everything doesn't have to be ultra competitive.
• 31:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: There are ways for you to have have respect your competitors,
• 31:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: protect your IP, but also have meaningful conversations
• 31:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: and relationship for mutual good.
• 31:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 31:34
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 31:35
  Lisa Nichols: I really love that.
• 31:36
  Lisa Nichols: My mantra this year was connect, collaborate, create.
• 31:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: Nice.
• 31:41
  Lisa Nichols: When you collaborate, truly, you can create even something
• 31:46
  Lisa Nichols: new Yep.
• 31:47
  Lisa Nichols: Or something better.
• 31:48
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 31:48
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, you can improve what you've you know, you've already got.
• 31:52
  Lisa Nichols: So I I love that.
• 31:55
  Lisa Nichols: You talk a lot about psychological safety, Jonathan.
• 31:59
  Lisa Nichols: And, you once said if everyone feels safe, they'll thrive in ways that
• 32:03
  Lisa Nichols: we did not even expect.
• 32:05
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what do you think how do you build psychological safety within a
• 32:09
  Lisa Nichols: team where people can truly be their best self?
• 32:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: I I think it's really important for people to
• 32:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: live the Nelson Mandela principle.
• 32:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, if you think that everything that you do is either a success
• 32:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: or a failure, then you're putting yourself into psychological
• 32:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: war warfare inside your head.
• 32:30
  Lisa Nichols: Right.
• 32:31
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 32:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And you're creating a narrative that isn't helpful for you or helpful for anybody.
• 32:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I, you know, I'm a fairly assertive business
• 32:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: person where I wanna have results, I wanna drive.
• 32:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: And at the same time, I tend to let things go.
• 32:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, I'll see people, you know, perhaps make mistakes or do things
• 32:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: less efficiently, but I don't often
• 32:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: go after that.
• 32:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: I had a conversation last night with the chairman of one of my companies,
• 33:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: and and we guys I was giving him an example, and he said, why
• 33:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: don't you just go and tell them?
• 33:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I said, well, what's the point?
• 33:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: I said, it takes me two minutes to fix.
• 33:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: They're working hard.
• 33:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: They're probably stressed they're probably stressed out.
• 33:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: They don't need to hear from me that they've made a mistake.
• 33:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: That what they need from hear from me is support.
• 33:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I said, if if if the mistake was gonna, you know, roll us
• 33:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: off the mountain, obviously, I would I I would talk about it.
• 33:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: But it's like it it it wasn't that big of a mistake.
• 33:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: It was just everyone's busy.
• 33:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: Everyone's working hard.
• 33:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think you have to be mindful that not everybody around you
• 33:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: is going to be perfect.
• 33:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: We're all humans.
• 33:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and naturally, obviously, if somebody consistently makes the same mistake over and over
• 33:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: and over, you need,
• 33:45
  Lisa Nichols: When you detect a pattern.
• 33:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: You need to do coaching and mentoring, but you don't need to go after
• 33:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: every what you perceive to be an error every time.
• 33:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 33:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I think that if we could take that five seconds and think
• 33:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: about, like, do I actually need to raise this to the person, or is
• 34:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: this something that I just document for myself?
• 34:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: So if it happens again, then maybe I think about raising it.
• 34:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think just we all just need a little bit more grace.
• 34:09
  Lisa Nichols: Oh,
• 34:11
  Lisa Nichols: that's that's gold right there.
• 34:13
  Lisa Nichols: I agree.
• 34:14
  Lisa Nichols: I agree.
• 34:15
  Lisa Nichols: More grace for sure.
• 34:17
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let's talk about Quimbee dot a I because you cofounded that in twenty
• 34:22
  Lisa Nichols: twenty five.
• 34:24
  Lisa Nichols: Tell us more about it.
• 34:25
  Lisa Nichols: Tell us what is it, you know, and, you
• 34:29
  Lisa Nichols: know, I know that you're combining Agintiq AI, which big
• 34:33
  Lisa Nichols: buzzword, with human centered design.
• 34:36
  Lisa Nichols: And so tell us tell us what it is.
• 34:39
  Lisa Nichols: Tell us, you know, obviously, we're a technology company, so we
• 34:43
  Lisa Nichols: do we talk a lot about AI, but there may be listeners out there
• 34:47
  Lisa Nichols: that don't really understand what that is.
• 34:49
  Lisa Nichols: So maybe you can kinda break that down for them.
• 34:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, you know, I think what's interesting about Quimby and and one of the
• 34:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: challenges that companies have had for a long time is is
• 34:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: how do I use data and information,
• 35:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: in combination with design to provide customers
• 35:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: with the content that is most likely
• 35:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: to allow them to get value from the product that they ostensibly
• 35:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: love because they chose to do it.
• 35:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: Whether it's a video game, you know, whether it's a TV show, whether
• 35:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: it's shoes, whatever it is.
• 35:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right?
• 35:25
  Lisa Nichols: Mhmm.
• 35:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so the idea behind Quemby, which is beach headed in
• 35:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: video games and ecommerce, but the idea behind it is we have the ability
• 35:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: with the Agintiq AI, by bringing together multiple data
• 35:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: sources about a customer to really understand the intent
• 35:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: of the customer and what their interests are and what's going to be
• 35:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: compelling to them.
• 35:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so we we we're able to do that on the back end of
• 35:51
  Jonathan Shroyer: these of these companies' products to help then the company
• 35:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: surface information offers, incentives, whatever it might be depending on the vertical
• 36:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: to then the customer's like, oh, they they know me.
• 36:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: So it's hyper personalized.
• 36:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: They know who I am.
• 36:05
  Jonathan Shroyer: They care because they they can send they they're sending me the right stuff.
• 36:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: Right.
• 36:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: You know, a a road campaign that isn't interesting to me at all.
• 36:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: And this is actually applicable and useful.
• 36:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: So, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna take advantage of this.
• 36:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think that, you know, the future of of kind of commerce
• 36:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: is all about intent and understanding the customer and using
• 36:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: AI to be able to do that in meaningful and interesting ways for the
• 36:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: customer.
• 36:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then if it's meaningful and interesting for the customer, then it's naturally gonna
• 36:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: become meaningful and interesting for the bank account in your company.
• 36:38
  Lisa Nichols: Exactly.
• 36:38
  Lisa Nichols: Your customer is gonna be much more engaged and much more willing to to,
• 36:43
  Lisa Nichols: you know, if it's an upsell situation or whatever the case may be.
• 36:46
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 36:47
  Lisa Nichols: That's awesome.
• 36:50
  Lisa Nichols: Well, you know, what what do you think, business leaders
• 36:55
  Lisa Nichols: because gaming, we've talked about this kind of in a sidebar conversation.
• 36:58
  Lisa Nichols: It's a it's a big industry.
• 37:00
  Lisa Nichols: It's a I don't know I don't know in GDP what it is exactly,
• 37:05
  Lisa Nichols: but, it's a big industry.
• 37:07
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, what do you think business leaders can can learn
• 37:11
  Lisa Nichols: from that world, Jonathan?
• 37:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: No.
• 37:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think it's interesting.
• 37:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: So gaming is about three hundred billion right now.
• 37:18
  Lisa Nichols: Okay.
• 37:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so it's larger than Hollywood, which most people are super surprised
• 37:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: about.
• 37:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: I I think, you know, maybe there's three things people can learn from gaming.
• 37:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think the first thing is, you know, the most successful games
• 37:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: build beautiful content, narratives, and journeys.
• 37:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so how do you think about your customer and their journey with your
• 37:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: product?
• 37:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: And is it beautifully designed?
• 37:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: Is the data there so they have the right content?
• 37:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: And are you paying attention to when why they leave, when they leave, how
• 37:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: they leave?
• 37:51
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think it's really important so to do that.
• 37:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think the second thing that's interesting in gaming is you just have a
• 37:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: treasure trove of data.
• 37:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 37:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And every product actually does any digital product anyways has a treasure trove of
• 38:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: data, but most people don't actually tap into it.
• 38:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: And people should see their secret weapon as their data.
• 38:10
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 38:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's not the it's it's not their product.
• 38:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's their data.
• 38:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because their data will inform them what's going to help them bring ten x
• 38:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: value to their customer.
• 38:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so whether you're losing you're leveraging AI, analytics, BI
• 38:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: team, however you approach it, you really need to understand your data,
• 38:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: to to grab the eyeballs, to grab the customers, and so forth.
• 38:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so gaming does that prolifically well.
• 38:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then I think the third thing that's interesting about gaming is because there's
• 38:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: so much digital commerce associated with it, segmentation
• 38:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: and hypo personalization is so critical.
• 38:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: If you want to get your game to a hundred million daily active users,
• 38:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: and then you want those daily active users to stay playing, you've gotta hyper
• 38:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: personalize your content and your engagement with them, you know, very acutely.
• 38:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so then when you think about that concept with any other digital based
• 39:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: company or really any company, is how do I hyper personalize
• 39:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: and then segment and then make sure that I'm doing AB tests and experimentation
• 39:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: with those segments to understand how I'm gonna be able to deliver more value
• 39:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: to each of those segments or each of those personas.
• 39:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: And And so I think those are the three things that gaming does really
• 39:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: well, which I think probably other industries could take advantage of.
• 39:23
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 39:24
  Lisa Nichols: Absolutely.
• 39:25
  Lisa Nichols: That would translate into any other business, really.
• 39:28
  Lisa Nichols: So, yeah, we say data is your oil.
• 39:32
  Lisa Nichols: You know?
• 39:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yep.
• 39:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yep.
• 39:33
  Lisa Nichols: Your engine is not gonna run without it, but it's so powerful.
• 39:36
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, it truly is.
• 39:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yep.
• 39:39
  Lisa Nichols: What do you think, like, if you were looking in your I mean, obviously,
• 39:43
  Lisa Nichols: well, you might be a futurist.
• 39:44
  Lisa Nichols: I don't know.
• 39:45
  Lisa Nichols: But, you you kinda have to be a little bit of a futurist when
• 39:48
  Lisa Nichols: you're an entrepreneur.
• 39:49
  Lisa Nichols: But thinking five to seven years ahead, I mean, what do you think how
• 39:53
  Lisa Nichols: do you think the customer experience is gonna look like in twenty thirty?
• 39:56
  Lisa Nichols: Do you think it's gonna be this hyper personal personalized experience
• 40:01
  Lisa Nichols: more?
• 40:01
  Lisa Nichols: You think that's gonna be part of it?
• 40:03
  Lisa Nichols: Are there any other elements, Jonathan, that you see?
• 40:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: I think that by twenty thirty, AI will have matured to the point
• 40:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: where what we will start to see is what I like to call companion
• 40:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: apps.
• 40:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: And what I what I mean by that is if you remember
• 40:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: you know, I don't know if you watched any of the Marvel Iron Man
• 40:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: movies.
• 40:24
  Lisa Nichols: Oh, of course.
• 40:25
  Lisa Nichols: Yes.
• 40:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: But, you know, how he has, you know, kind of the voice in his
• 40:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: head, the AI that's helping him be his his best, you know, superhero
• 40:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: self.
• 40:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: Now imagine you don't necessarily need that in your head as a consumer, but
• 40:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: imagine you have that on any website you go to in any in any
• 40:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: place.
• 40:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: A hyper personalized agent, if you will, hyper personalized
• 40:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: companion that will quickly help you understand the
• 40:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: value of of what you're researching, not only on that side, but potentially across
• 40:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: the web.
• 40:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and and I think that that companion will will become something
• 40:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: that will become essential.
• 40:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: It'll be like your Starbucks cup of coffee.
• 41:01
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, you will in twenty thirty, you will go to a website, and if
• 41:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: they don't have a companion, you will just go to another website, because you'll
• 41:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: be so accustomed to getting the information served exactly how you
• 41:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: need it in a personalized way so that you can move more quickly through
• 41:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: the decision process, get value from the products that you're looking to acquire,
• 41:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: and then move it move it out and do interesting things in your life.
• 41:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, that's my prediction is we're we're all going to have that type
• 41:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: of a relationship with a product.
• 41:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: And companies that don't understand that or get that, they
• 41:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: may they may well be left behind by twenty thirty.
• 41:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:37
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 41:38
  Lisa Nichols: I mean, we we say that all the time.
• 41:40
  Lisa Nichols: It's not hype.
• 41:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 41:43
  Lisa Nichols: Here and,
• 41:44
  Lisa Nichols: truthfully, you can't keep up.
• 41:46
  Lisa Nichols: You won't be able to keep up with those companies that are deleveraging
• 41:50
  Lisa Nichols: really well.
• 41:52
  Lisa Nichols: There's just no way that you're gonna be able to keep up with that.
• 41:54
  Lisa Nichols: So
• 41:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's true.
• 41:55
  Lisa Nichols: You gotta have a plan.
• 41:57
  Lisa Nichols: You gotta have a plan.
• 42:00
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 42:00
  Lisa Nichols: I let me ask you this.
• 42:02
  Lisa Nichols: I I know that you wrote some books.
• 42:04
  Lisa Nichols: And one of your books, The Little Lion, Lioness, and Lana,
• 42:09
  Lisa Nichols: is a deeply personal book.
• 42:12
  Lisa Nichols: What inspired you to tell that story?
• 42:14
  Lisa Nichols: And can you there's some elements in there like resilience and redemption,
• 42:18
  Lisa Nichols: forgiveness, that sort of thing.
• 42:20
  Lisa Nichols: What inspired you to write the book?
• 42:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, I think becoming a dad, you know, you start to have a
• 42:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: different kind of viewpoint on life.
• 42:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 42:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: The three characters in that book are me, my wife, and my son.
• 42:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, I I wrote the book.
• 42:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's a short story, but I wrote the book because I was really thinking
• 42:39
  Jonathan Shroyer: about them, and I was thinking about what I was learning about my journey,
• 42:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: you know, up to that point in my life as well as what was
• 42:46
  Jonathan Shroyer: coming up.
• 42:47
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I and I felt the the principles that you talked about are super
• 42:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: important for anybody to learn and and to understand.
• 42:54
  Jonathan Shroyer: But it's also important to, like, understand, like, where you're going and to appreciate
• 42:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: what's in front of you.
• 42:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and I think that book, like, just helped me express some of my
• 43:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: thoughts.
• 43:03
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 43:04
  Lisa Nichols: That's so what what a precious,
• 43:07
  Lisa Nichols: momento for for Anderson even to understand you more.
• 43:11
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 43:11
  Lisa Nichols: And you're passing along these principles in a way that he can really truly
• 43:15
  Lisa Nichols: understand.
• 43:16
  Lisa Nichols: So I love that.
• 43:19
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I've got just a couple more questions here, and we're gonna talk about
• 43:23
  Lisa Nichols: something extra.
• 43:25
  Lisa Nichols: You've been described by people as being a pioneer, someone
• 43:29
  Lisa Nichols: who can imagine the world ten years from now and reverse
• 43:33
  Lisa Nichols: engineer it to today.
• 43:35
  Lisa Nichols: We we've already talked about that because I asked you what's CX gonna look
• 43:39
  Lisa Nichols: like in twenty thirty, and you were able to to say what you think
• 43:43
  Lisa Nichols: that is.
• 43:43
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, what do you believe really fuels that pioneering spirit?
• 43:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 43:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: I mean, I think it it probably comes down to, like,
• 43:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: experiences I've had in my life.
• 43:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: And, you know, as you kinda go through life,
• 44:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: everybody
• 44:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: learns something from their experiences.
• 44:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I remember when I was I think I was in the maybe twelve
• 44:07
  Jonathan Shroyer: years old.
• 44:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: I remember one one night, I was kind of sitting at at the mirror,
• 44:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: with the razor, and I was wondering if life should continue.
• 44:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I remember having a voice in my head that said,
• 44:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: tomorrow will be better.
• 44:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: And and so I put down the razor, and I kept going about life.
• 44:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I really think there's a pow there's a super super power if you
• 44:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: can plug hope into your life, into your
• 44:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: soul, into your being.
• 44:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because if you believe innately at the inception level,
• 44:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: if you believe that hope will bring a better day for tomorrow,
• 44:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: you have a responsibility to take some action in it.
• 44:52
  Jonathan Shroyer: But if you believe that and the universe knows that you believe that,
• 44:56
  Jonathan Shroyer: then tomorrow will be better.
• 44:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then if you start to think about, well, tomorrow will be better because
• 45:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: I I hope for, therefore, I believe it and I have faith, then you
• 45:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: start thinking about, well, what what does tomorrow need to look like to be
• 45:09
  Jonathan Shroyer: better?
• 45:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: So it's not just waiting for tomorrow to happen.
• 45:12
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's like, well well, then what what is it gonna be?
• 45:16
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think it you know, from a young age, I've always been
• 45:20
  Jonathan Shroyer: super interested in what's coming.
• 45:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: Sometimes I need to be more focused on what's here occasionally, but but super
• 45:28
  Jonathan Shroyer: interested into what's coming, what's the future look like.
• 45:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: And Mhmm.
• 45:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it's going to be better.
• 45:33
  Jonathan Shroyer: And it's gonna be unique, and it's gonna be fun.
• 45:35
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's gonna be hard.
• 45:36
  Jonathan Shroyer: It's gonna be enjoyable.
• 45:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: But it's coming and you you should you should keep that
• 45:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: hope alive.
• 45:42
  Jonathan Shroyer: During the darkest moments of your life when you feel like you're going to
• 45:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: break, remember that you you're you have that elasticity
• 45:50
  Jonathan Shroyer: with your resilience to be able to to believe in the hope and to
• 45:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: kinda to grow from that.
• 45:55
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I think that's what drives me thinking about futuristic and different things like
• 45:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: that.
• 45:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 46:00
  Jonathan Shroyer: Then I start to think about, well, you know you know, what's gonna make
• 46:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: it better in my personal life, my professional life in the world, and what
• 46:08
  Jonathan Shroyer: aspirations should I have?
• 46:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: What aspiration should other people have?
• 46:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because if you have hope and then you believe in a better future, then
• 46:15
  Jonathan Shroyer: you want to create it, then you start dreaming it.
• 46:18
  Jonathan Shroyer: And if you dream it, then that's that, like, the twenty year plan.
• 46:22
  Jonathan Shroyer: If you dream it, then you're gonna you're gonna write it down, you're gonna
• 46:24
  Jonathan Shroyer: talk about it, and then it's more likely to happen.
• 46:27
  Jonathan Shroyer: So I think that's some of the things that fuels me and helps me
• 46:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: thinking about, like, the futurist.
• 46:32
  Jonathan Shroyer: If somebody calls me a pioneer, a pioneer kind of thing.
• 46:36
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 46:37
  Lisa Nichols: That's so good.
• 46:37
  Lisa Nichols: Well, I'm so glad that that you had
• 46:41
  Lisa Nichols: a change of perspective, Jonathan, because the world would have missed a wonderful
• 46:46
  Lisa Nichols: gift in you and and what you've been able to create and
• 46:51
  Lisa Nichols: you know?
• 46:51
  Lisa Nichols: So but,
• 46:54
  Lisa Nichols: that's really a beautiful story.
• 46:56
  Lisa Nichols: I appreciate your vulnerability in that.
• 46:58
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 47:00
  Lisa Nichols: This is called something extra, w ell, let me ask you one more question.
• 47:03
  Lisa Nichols: If you if there's a young person out there and
• 47:07
  Lisa Nichols: they're a young entrepreneur, you know, is is there some
• 47:11
  Lisa Nichols: some advice that you would give them?
• 47:13
  Lisa Nichols: Because life is I mean, Scott Peck
• 47:17
  Lisa Nichols: said life is hard.
• 47:19
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 47:19
  Lisa Nichols: The R oad L ess T raveled.
• 47:20
  Lisa Nichols: Life is hard.
• 47:21
  Lisa Nichols: But, you know, maybe they're a young entrepreneur, and they're going through some pain,
• 47:26
  Lisa Nichols: y ou know.
• 47:27
  Lisa Nichols: What what would you say to them, and,
• 47:31
  Lisa Nichols: what kind of advice would you give them about, you know, having that hope
• 47:35
  Lisa Nichols: of turning that pain into some purpose?
• 47:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 47:38
  Jonathan Shroyer: Well, I think the most important thing, you know, for an entrepreneur,
• 47:43
  Jonathan Shroyer: or for anybody in life is, are you betting on yourself?
• 47:49
  Jonathan Shroyer: Because what I learned is you can give away your assets,
• 47:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: you can give away your skills, or you can choose to bet
• 47:57
  Jonathan Shroyer: on yourself and transform your abundance.
• 48:03
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so I think the question is, are you betting on yourself?
• 48:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: And then if you're betting on yourself, then hustle.
• 48:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: Mhmm.
• 48:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: Think.
• 48:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: Innovate.
• 48:13
  Jonathan Shroyer: You know?
• 48:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: Those are the things that I would say to do.
• 48:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: And I and and and don't you know, ninety nine times,
• 48:21
  Jonathan Shroyer: it's not gonna work, but that one time, it will work.
• 48:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: And so you need to do all hundred times.
• 48:26
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, don't give up after the nineteenth time because it didn't work.
• 48:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: Like, bet on itself
• 48:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: because ninety so here's the the rule of thumb.
• 48:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: If you do something for fifteen minutes a day for one year, you are
• 48:41
  Jonathan Shroyer: now more efficient at that thing and better output
• 48:45
  Jonathan Shroyer: at that thing than ninety seven percent of humanity.
• 48:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: So if you have that fortitude, you have that resilience, you bet on yourself,
• 48:53
  Jonathan Shroyer: then you will win.
• 48:56
  Lisa Nichols: That's remarkable.
• 48:57
  Lisa Nichols: Say that again.
• 48:59
  Lisa Nichols: If you do something for fifteen minutes
• 49:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: Fifteen minutes
• 49:03
  Lisa Nichols: a day.
• 49:03
  Speaker 0: For a year
• 49:04
  Jonathan Shroyer: For a year.
• 49:05
  Lisa Nichols: You're going to be more efficient and better at it than ninety seven percent
• 49:09
  Lisa Nichols: of the rest of humanity.
• 49:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:11
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:12
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 49:13
  Lisa Nichols: So but the the the operative word there is the fortitude.
• 49:17
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:18
  Lisa Nichols: To keep going.
• 49:19
  Lisa Nichols: Right?
• 49:20
  Lisa Nichols: Yeah.
• 49:20
  Lisa Nichols: I have another friend that says, don't give up on your
• 49:24
  Lisa Nichols: worst day.
• 49:26
  Lisa Nichols: Don't give up.
• 49:27
  Lisa Nichols: If things are not going well, don't give up that day.
• 49:31
  Jonathan Shroyer: Yeah.
• 49:32
  Lisa Nichols: You know, maybe revisit it.
• 49:34
  Lisa Nichols: Go do something else.
• 49:35
  Lisa Nichols: Revisit that challenge, whatever it is.
• 49:38
  Lisa Nichols: And kinda to your point, earlier when you were telling
• 49:42
  Lisa Nichols: about when you were twelve, tomorrow
• 49:45
  Lisa Nichols: is you know, may look entirely different.
• 49:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:48
  Jonathan Shroyer: That's right.
• 49:49
  Lisa Nichols: So and having that hope.
• 49:51
  Lisa Nichols: I love it.
• 49:51
  Lisa Nichols: Well, let me ask you this.
• 49:53
  Lisa Nichols: This is called something extra.
• 49:55
  Lisa Nichols: What do you believe is the something extra that every great leader needs?
• 49:59
  Jonathan Shroyer: Every great leader
• 50:02
  Jonathan Shroyer: needs a therapist.
• 50:06
  Jonathan Shroyer: I've had a therapist for twenty five years for reasons beyond leadership,
• 50:10
  Jonathan Shroyer: But I've had a therapist for twenty five years, and what the therapist provided
• 50:14
  Jonathan Shroyer: for me was an unbiased,
• 50:19
  Jonathan Shroyer: unfiltered viewpoint on how I could become the best best version
• 50:23
  Jonathan Shroyer: of myself
• 50:25
  Jonathan Shroyer: and then gave me tangible, actionable things that I could then go and
• 50:29
  Jonathan Shroyer: do.
• 50:30
  Jonathan Shroyer: So whether you wanna do therapy, whether you wanted to get a career coach,
• 50:34
  Jonathan Shroyer: whatever frame whatever framework works best for your mindset.
• 50:37
  Jonathan Shroyer: I have both, a career coach and a therapist.
• 50:40
  Jonathan Shroyer: But you gotta put people around you that are really
• 50:44
  Jonathan Shroyer: incentivized to help you.
• 50:47
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 50:48
  Lisa Nichols: That's good.
• 50:49
  Lisa Nichols: Love it.
• 50:50
  Lisa Nichols: Well, Jonathan, thank you so much.
• 50:52
  Lisa Nichols: This has been so much fun.
• 50:53
  Lisa Nichols: I have really, really enjoyed our conversation, and I know that it's gonna help
• 50:57
  Lisa Nichols: our listeners.
• 50:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: Cool.
• 50:58
  Jonathan Shroyer: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 51:00
  Lisa Nichols: I appreciate it.
• 51:01
  Lisa Nichols: Thank you so much.
• 51:02
  Announcer: Thank you for listening to today's show.
• 51:05
  Announcer: Something extra with Lisa Nichols is a Technology Partners production.
• 51:08
  Announcer: Copyright Technology Partners Inc two thousand and nineteen.
• 51:12
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• 51:17
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• 51:22
  Announcer: you listen.