Latest / DISGRACELAND / Bonus Episode: The Del Fuegos, Charles Starkweather, and Writer Warren Zanes Talks Bruce Springsteen's "Nebraska"

Transcript

Bonus Episode: The Del Fuegos, Charles Starkweather, and Writer Warren Zanes Talks Bruce Springsteen's "Nebraska" · DISGRACELAND

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey, discos, need a little more Disgraceland in your life,
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: just to touch to get you through.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, need too.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the podcast that comes after the podcast.
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: Welcome to Disgraceland the after Party.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Disgraceland Bonus episode, a little thing we
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: like to call the after Party. This is the show
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: after the show, the party after the party, the bridge
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to get you from one full episode of Disgraceland to
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: the other, the backyard to dig into the dirt. On
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: this episode, we are talking about Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska, the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: source and inspiration for the latest episode of Disgraceland, and
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: we are speaking with best selling author Warren Zane's about
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: his new book on Bruce Springsteen's Nebraska, entitled Deliver Me
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: from Nowhere.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: And of course you get into a few of your
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: boss oriented questions for Warren, so.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Disc goes let's get into it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome to a special edition of the Disgraceland After Party
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Bonus episode. We got an interview for you today. I'm
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: very excited about this. Don't do a lot of interviews.
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: We do some.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: You know, get a good track record, it's something you know.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Fifty percent of the time. I want to do interviews.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: The other fifty percent of the time, I don't want
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: to do them, but I really wanted to interview Warren Zanes.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: When I started researching the Bruce Springsteen episode of Disgraceland.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You know, you go through your process of research, you
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: start to look at, you know, what are the books
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: out there that have been written on whatever the subject is,
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: What are the documentaries, what are all the source materials.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: You start to get a good list going of off
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: you're going to devour before you start writing, and excuse me,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: before we start outlining and writing after that. And you know,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: as I was in that process, I came upon delivering
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: me from nowhere the book on Bruce Springsteen. The only
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: problem was it wasn't written yet. So it's like, fuck,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: this is perfect.
• 2:17
  Speaker 5: Man.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: In a way, I'm glad it wasn't written yet because
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: it would have been almost like too strong of a
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: document too strong of an influence on what I wanted
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to do for this episode. You know, I've long wanted
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: to do a Bruce Springsteen episode, but there's there's no
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: real true crime in his history. However, in his songs,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: there's a treasure trove of true crime, specifically on Bruce
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Springsteen's Nebraska, and it's It was really interesting to me
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: because you know, there are the there are songs on Nebraska.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: The first of all, all the characters on Nebraska are
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: sort of like on the margins, and they're they're kind
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: of they're kind of neither here nor they're they're they're
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: they're in they're they're transient, they're they're in motion, they're
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: they're going from good to bad. They're all over the place.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But they're they're fictional characters, and some of them are
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: are nonfiction. And I thought, Wow, wouldn't it be cool
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: if I if I could find some some way to
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: thread those characters together.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: So that's what I tried doing.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I look specifically at the characters in Nebraska, the song
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Nebraska that's on Nebraska, in the song Atlantic City, Johnny
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: ninety nine highway Patrolman, and uh, I think those are
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the one Yeah, those are the ones I touch upon.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: And then there's sort of this this this fictional narrator
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: that stems from it's sort of a from a composite
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: of Bruce's characters.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: On the album.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Uh, he's kind of he's a mister state trooper. He's
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: all over the place. But he's He's the thread that
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: pulls all these guys together for me. And this was
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: a really fun way to do an episode. It was
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: a fun way to think about writing the episode. It
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: was a fun way to explore.
• 4:03
  Speaker 5: The the the the.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Creator of these characters, to explore Bruce Springsteen. And it
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: was a really fun way to fuck with the music
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: because the sounds of of the album Nebraska, which was originally,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: as I talked about, intended to be a demo for
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: what became Born in the USA. Uh, the sound of
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: that album is so specific, so we were really able
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to take that specificity of sound and fuck with it
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: in a cool way. It's so minimal and it's it's
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: it's so analog and kind of digital at the same
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: time with this this weird synth synth stuff on there.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: So it was really fun to fuck with the music.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And I knew, I knew our guy, our guys Brian
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: and Matt would just crush it. So I'm really proud
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: of this episode. I'm I'm really fascinated with this record.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I think at in the final analysis right now from
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: where I sit that Nebraska is Springsteen's best album. I
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: think it's his his most most how do I say
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: this economic.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Most most forceful.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: It has a point of view that is completely consistent
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: both in in what it's trying to say and in
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: how it says it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: There's no filler on this album. It's a shame.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: It's kind of it's not meant to be a disc
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that his band isn't on it. I'm not trying to
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: shit on the East Street Band or any of the
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: musicians who have played on Bruce's other albums. I just
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: think as a fully realized piece of art, you know,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: when everything's said and done, three four hundred years from now,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: when we're all long gone and there's no one to
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: defend it, I think this record will stand on its
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: own amongst you know, Born in the USA and Born
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to Run and Greetings from Raspberry Park, or whichever album
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: you want to throw in comparison to it. Nebraska, to
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: me is the one. So with all that said, take
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a quick break, come back in a minute with mister Warren.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Zan's literally the guy who wrote the book on Nebraska,
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: and I can't wait for you guys to hear from him.
• 6:05
  Speaker 5: One second.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Warren Zanes, Welcome to the Disgraceland. After Party bonus episode,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Warren not gonna put you on the spot right away?
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: Is Nebraska Bruce Springsteen's best album?
• 6:27
  Speaker 6: Oh wow, you are putting me on the spot. I'm
• 6:30
  Speaker 6: not sure because it depends on the day.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: This is.
• 6:35
  Speaker 6: I was a Bruce fan from way back. I'm the
• 6:38
  Speaker 6: youngest of three, so a lot of records came down
• 6:42
  Speaker 6: the waterfall that older siblings send music down. And you know,
• 6:48
  Speaker 6: some days it's the While the Innocent in the East
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: Street Shuffle. Some days it's Western Stars. I'd say this
• 6:58
  Speaker 6: about Nebraska. There are more days when it's Nebraska than
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: any other record.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I feel that way as well, even though it's you
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: need to be in the right state of mind to
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: listen to this album, or.
• 7:12
  Speaker 6: You need to be in the wrong state of mind.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: That as well. That'll work too, that'll work too.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: As I mentioned at the top of the show, Uh,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I'm talking to Warren. Zan's his book Delivering Me from Nowhere.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: Warren literally wrote the book on Nebraska. It's a it's
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: a book that's devoted to Springsteen's album Nebraska. Warren, I'm
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: about halfway through it. It is truly great.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I love it. I love your writing. I'm kind of
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I read so much.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Music literature for for work, for researching these episodes that
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: I get I get kind of snobbish about it, and
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I find myself unable to stop turning the pages. And
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: I'm just really fucking impressed. Man, congratulations for you so much.
• 7:55
  Speaker 6: Shake that that that means a lot. This was This
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: was definitely a project where I really felt myself in there.
• 8:06
  Speaker 6: And that's not to say I'm in the pages at
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: an explicit level, but you know, it's stories of troubled people,
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: and I'm still trying to figure out the nature of
• 8:19
  Speaker 6: my own troubles. So this thing just resonates for me
• 8:23
  Speaker 6: and has for forty years.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: That's amazing to hear.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: How do you find yourself at this point in your
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: life where you know? This goes from the idea of
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you know, wouldn't it be great
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to write a book about Springsteen's Nebraska the actually doing
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: it with or at some times without Bruce's involvement. I
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: don't even know what the full involvement was. If you
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: can explain sort of how this came to be and
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: how the relationship with Bruce worked and what that dynamic
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: was over the course of putting the book together.
• 8:55
  Speaker 6: Yeah, first I would say it's it wouldn't be the
• 8:58
  Speaker 6: same book without his participation. The way he came into
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: these interviews, and you know, having read lots of them
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: over the years, I'd say it's pretty consistent with the
• 9:10
  Speaker 6: way he's always done it. He doesn't show up halfway,
• 9:14
  Speaker 6: he's not checking his phone, He's really in the room,
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: and if there's a question that he doesn't have an
• 9:23
  Speaker 6: answer for, he'll come back with a question of his own.
• 9:27
  Speaker 6: And the kind of vulnerability that he displays makes for
• 9:31
  Speaker 6: a powerful interview. So it couldn't have done it without him.
• 9:34
  Speaker 6: But the process, you know, there's the personal dimension that
• 9:40
  Speaker 6: I already referred to. I just had these questions about
• 9:45
  Speaker 6: my own connection to this record. Why for so many
• 9:49
  Speaker 6: years did this feel like my family album?
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: And you know, it's.
• 9:56
  Speaker 6: Obviously it's a troubled fing and I felt like I
• 10:02
  Speaker 6: fit right in. I wanted to know more about why.
• 10:05
  Speaker 6: I also wanted to know why someone who had just
• 10:09
  Speaker 6: had their first top you know, number one album and
• 10:13
  Speaker 6: first top ten single would make such a crazy career decision.
• 10:20
  Speaker 6: And I felt like I didn't know enough. So those
• 10:24
  Speaker 6: were the two things that really compelled me. The process was,
• 10:29
  Speaker 6: I'd been doing some work with the director Tom Zimney,
• 10:33
  Speaker 6: who does a lot with Bruce, and I'd met John
• 10:38
  Speaker 6: Landau through Tom Zimney's Elvis documentary The Searcher, and I
• 10:45
  Speaker 6: interviewed John for some related product and John knew me
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: from that, and so Tom passed along a very short
• 10:58
  Speaker 6: proposal and then John said, yeah, you know, from the
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: little I know, I can support this. And so John
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: then became my first key interview. And you know, at
• 11:15
  Speaker 6: the end of our first day together, he said, you know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: I I don't tell Bruce what to do, but I
• 11:22
  Speaker 6: will tell him I had a good time with you today,
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: and I think he might have a good time with
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: you too. Yeah.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, that's that's pretty high.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: That's high praise coming from Springsteen's John landa longtime collaborator,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: manager and producer of The Boss himself. That's I imagine
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: that that greased the skids there a little bit. Did
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: it work where you were able to just you know,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: send Bruce questions or you know, I saw that. I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: saw that piece at CBS News did on you guys
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: where you're there in the room together, which God, I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: mean talk about goosebump moments. You know, it's were you
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: able to just you know, hit him up and be like, hey,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: you know, you know what was that guitart using on
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: that track? Or you know, how did you get that
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: weird you know harpsichord sound. Was it like that or
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: was it all kind of like this.
• 12:08
  Speaker 6: Was like most of it comes from one long a
• 12:12
  Speaker 6: day session. Yeah, and so I had I knew my questions,
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: I knew the general arc that I felt.
• 12:22
  Speaker 7: Was right for this story.
• 12:25
  Speaker 6: I also knew he was going to change that arc
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: to some degree, but it was it was in a
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: long session. It's when you talk about that room. One
• 12:36
  Speaker 6: of the striking things about working with him is his
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: kind of sophistication in understanding material history. So when we
• 12:50
  Speaker 6: walked in that room together, we were in a material place.
• 12:54
  Speaker 6: We were in a space where something happened, and he
• 13:00
  Speaker 6: knew I was having an experience having been working on
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: this book for two years and we walk in and
• 13:06
  Speaker 6: it's still the orange shag carpets.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: It was just reverberating for me.
• 13:14
  Speaker 6: But in the time of the interviews, when we were
• 13:17
  Speaker 6: talking about his childhood and growing up in his parents'
• 13:21
  Speaker 6: home for the first five or six years of his life.
• 13:25
  Speaker 6: You know, it's a place of unprocessed grieving. His aunt
• 13:28
  Speaker 6: Virginia had died at age six, and he was the
• 13:33
  Speaker 6: first grandchild. And in their living room, you know, they.
• 13:37
  Speaker 7: Were very poor.
• 13:38
  Speaker 6: It was a house that was kind of in the
• 13:42
  Speaker 6: process of decomposing the way he describes it. But in
• 13:46
  Speaker 6: the living room, over the TV, it was his portrait
• 13:48
  Speaker 6: of his aunt Virginia who had died. And right in
• 13:52
  Speaker 6: the midst of the interview, he said, we're talking about
• 13:56
  Speaker 6: that portrait, and he says, I've got it. That's the
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: one thing I've got. Let me get it, and he
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: sets it up. For the rest of the interview, it's
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: me here, Bruce there, Aunt Virginia there. And same thing
• 14:11
  Speaker 6: with when I'm asking about the equipment, he is, what
• 14:14
  Speaker 6: guitar did you use? He's like, it's the J two hundred.
• 14:17
  Speaker 6: Let me go get that.
• 14:19
  Speaker 8: And he set these things up around us.
• 14:21
  Speaker 6: And I think that's both his generosity and that's his
• 14:26
  Speaker 6: sophistication in understanding, Uh, you know, I'm in a book project.
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: How can I best help.
• 14:33
  Speaker 7: This person write this book?
• 14:35
  Speaker 9: And it's to set up these objects that have that
• 14:39
  Speaker 9: aura and that vibration and this is not every interview
• 14:44
  Speaker 9: is like this, you know, it's it's deep stuff, and
• 14:49
  Speaker 9: so would the book be the same without him.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not amazing such trusts that he had in you.
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if I heard this or I
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: read it, or if I made it up, or if
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: I'm making it up. But when you did the book,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: the Petty book, I heard the story was he contacted
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: you or you guys ended up in a conversation and
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: he felt that if he wasn't involved in the book,
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: you could write a more honest portrayal of him. And
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: I think that's so fucking rock and roll if that's true.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: And if it is true, Bruce must have known that
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: and picked up on it correct.
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: Well.
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: I don't know about that, because you know, when I
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: go in on a project, I don't talk about another one.
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: If there are any questions about it, I'll certainly answer them.
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: But I'm all in Nebraska when I go in on that.
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: But let me tell you about Petty, and this is
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: this really tells you something about how smart Tom Petty was.
• 15:51
  Speaker 6: We'd been doing a few projects, so he read my
• 15:53
  Speaker 6: Dusty and Memphis book and I kind of got an
• 15:57
  Speaker 6: email out of nowhere, and Tom would like to take
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: you to day. I was more a graduate student, you know,
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: I was looking at becoming a professor. I get this email.
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: Tom wants to take out the dinner. We had dinner,
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: and he said at the end of it, you know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: I often don't know where songs come from, but I
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: wrote one after I read your book, and I want
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: you to come back to the house and listen to it.
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: Now I totally wasn't expecting that. So he comes back,
• 16:25
  Speaker 6: he plays me the song down South from the Highway
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: companion record, and that started this relationship. We toured with
• 16:32
  Speaker 6: him back in the eighties, but yes, this was something new.
• 16:36
  Speaker 6: He was really he was seeing me as a writer
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: before I had the courage.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: To see myself as one.
• 16:42
  Speaker 6: And then I did. I interviewed for the Peter Bugdanovich movie,
• 16:49
  Speaker 6: and then I did a companion book. I edited a
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: companion book for that movie. So by the time he
• 16:56
  Speaker 6: came to me about a bio, we had some history now.
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: But we were walking out to my car and he
• 17:03
  Speaker 6: was like, you know, what would you think about a bio?
• 17:06
  Speaker 6: And I was like, you know, that's you know, yeah,
• 17:14
  Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, I love this guy. And he said,
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: here's the deal, and he mapped it out in like
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: forty five seconds. It's your book. I give you full participation.
• 17:27
  Speaker 6: If you want to interview someone, I'll go ask them.
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: If they don't want to do it, that's their business.
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: It's not an authorized biography because anytime you see authorized,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: it just means it's bullshit. So right, yeah, like he
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: was totally and he and then he just asked to
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: be able to read a manuscript before it goes to
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: publication and respond to things he felt he needed to
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: respond to. But he wasn't going to ask me to
• 18:03
  Speaker 6: change anything. And wow, those are the terms. And you know,
• 18:08
  Speaker 6: when I talked about Nebraska with John Landau, I said, hey,
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: just so you know, here's how Tom Petty mapped it out.
• 18:16
  Speaker 6: And John said that sounds like a good way to go,
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: you know. So there was Tom kind of in the
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: room and we did it. We did it the same way.
• 18:27
  Speaker 6: And you know, I feel really lucky and and it
• 18:34
  Speaker 6: matters to be trusted to say what I feel needs
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: to be said as a fan and someone who loves
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: this stuff, and as someone who's living, you know, a
• 18:48
  Speaker 6: writer a kind of an intellectual life in addition to
• 18:51
  Speaker 6: being a fan. I need the room to be able
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: to say something that might not feel great on their side,
• 18:58
  Speaker 6: but they still recognize as true truth.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Right right, well said, well said, And you can feel that.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: I read the Petty book a while ago. I'm obviously
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: in the Springsteen book now. You can feel it in
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: those pages. You can feel the fan in you speaking,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: but also as an intellectual. And the writing is so good,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and there's I want to read you something here. This
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: is a good jumping off point here. This is a
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: tiny excerpt from the book. And I just love this.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I love the economy and the writing, and I love
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it because it's it's subject matter that I know like
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: the back of my hand. Yet you put it in
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a way that makes me even more interested and want
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: to keep reading. You say Nebraska was a cave painting
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: in the age of photography. You had to crawl underground
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and through a few tight spaces to get at it.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Nebraska's production involved the absence of production. There's no producer
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: credit on the album jacket because there was no production
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: short of the act of saying, just put out the
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: demo and not everyone involved agrees. Who's at that first?
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: It's great, man, It's so good. It's so damn good.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Now back to the fan thing here, you know. You know,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: I know you first and foremost, you and your brother
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: from the Del Fuegos, And you know I'm younger than you,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: but I grew up. I was a kid, and I
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: remember so I grew up west of Boston in a
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: town called Clinton, Massachusetts. It's about thirty five miles west
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of Boston. And my girlfriend in junior high, she lived
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: on this big hill in town, and if you were
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: at her house and you had the radio on FNX,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: you could get it in where you couldn't get it
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: in pretty much anywhere else in town that.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: I had access to.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: And I would go up there, you know, and everyone's
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: got of you know, smoking cigarettes and playing Spin the bottle,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: and I'm tuning in her radio, and that's how I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: first heard the Del Fuegos, And sooner know I had
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: something I could talk to my dad about, you know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: and it was I Still Want You, which is off
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: of Boston, mass And I don't remember what year that was.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Years later, I'm working in Boston as a college student
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and I'm with this old salty furniture moving dude who
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I still know and love this guy, Joe Allenby, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: he tells me the story. Now I'm certain this is
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: just rock and roll myth and I've got it wrong.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: Your book kind of told me that I had it wrong.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: But you know, I think we're driving somewhere, we're talking
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: about the Del Fuegos, and he goes, yeah, there's a
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: story where they're on tour one night back in the
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: day and they're in the diner. They're in this diner
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: on the road somewhere, you know, on the Eastern Seaboard,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and Springsteen walks in and he looks at him.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: He goes, you, guys look like you're in a rock
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: and roll band. I just thought that's the greatest compliment.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Then I read your book and I'm like, that story's
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: total bullshit.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: So why don't you tell the real story, if you will,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: about meeting Bruce Springsteen while you were a young kid
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: in the Del Fuegos.
• 21:48
  Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, it's really funny, the Del Flagos. You know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: history doesn't remember that band particularly well. And I say,
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: fair enough. But even before I joined, like Sam Phillips,
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: Sam Phillips of Sun Records, who first recorded Elvis in
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: a Rolling Stone interview, he mentioned the band like he's
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: interested in his band that Delphoe Goes then, and I'm
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: telling you that there was one single out before I
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: joined the band. Robert Plant does a Rolling Stone interview.
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: He mentions the del Fuegos like amazing. I wasn't even
• 22:31
  Speaker 6: sure who Robert Plant was, but so there was a
• 22:37
  Speaker 6: little bit of a charmed quality that went for a
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: little bit and then you know, and then we blew
• 22:43
  Speaker 6: up our own house. But Bruce coming and playing on
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: stage with us was part of this. And we were
• 22:50
  Speaker 6: out on one of our first tours with our first
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: album out, The Longest Day, and we were playing in Greensboro,
• 22:59
  Speaker 6: North Carolina, and as it turned out, the E Street
• 23:05
  Speaker 6: Band had a night off and we're in our dressing
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: room at the Rhinoceros Club. It's one hundred and fifty
• 23:11
  Speaker 6: seater that's about half full, and Nil's Lofgren comes into
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: our dressing room and that was a thrill and we were,
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: you know, we didn't really miss a beat before we said, hey,
• 23:26
  Speaker 6: would you jump up on stage? And then it was
• 23:29
  Speaker 6: just minutes later that Springsteen comes in and next thing
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: you know, we're on stage and we did hang on
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: sloopy and stand by me with him, and I remember
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: turning around to my amplifier and I turned it all
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: the way down, not just like down to three, I
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: turned it to zero because I had some sense of
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: I want I don't want to participate, I want to
• 23:58
  Speaker 6: watch this go down, like, oh, I want to have
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: a memory of this. And there are so many guitars
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: on stage already.
• 24:06
  Speaker 7: It didn't matter.
• 24:07
  Speaker 6: And I really, I like watched it, and I watched
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: that room, and uh, there was so much joy in
• 24:16
  Speaker 6: that room. Like Springsteen, however big he was in that moment,
• 24:23
  Speaker 6: he was always uh, he's one of us kind of artists.
• 24:27
  Speaker 6: And so the people there were they were at a
• 24:31
  Speaker 6: spiritual event and I was seeing them and I was
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: seeing Bruce and uh, you know, I say in the book.
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: For the next two years, every interview, the first question
• 24:41
  Speaker 6: was what was it like to play with Bruce Springsteen?
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: And I waited till question four. So there were apologies, no,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: but it was Look, it was.
• 24:55
  Speaker 6: It was remarkable, you know. And then and then that
• 24:58
  Speaker 6: tour we end up out in and that was when
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: we met Petty for the first time.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 25:06
  Speaker 6: It was just like they were lining up.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: Our heroes, amazing, amazing, so cool, so cool. You talk
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: about in the book, and this is one thing I
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: whiffed on in my episode on Nebraska. You talk about
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: punk rocks influenced specifically Alan Vega and Suicide, which not
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: really a punk rock band, but part of that whole
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: scene that influence on Nebraska. The album and it's it
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: makes so much sense, and you can hear how the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: album goes on to influence a whole other generation of
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: punk and hardcore kids like myself. You know, in this
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: sort of latest examination for me of the album, I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: really dug into some of the other influences that if.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: You do wouldn't mind.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind you talking about a little bit Flannery
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: O'Connor specifically, which I found fascinating. I actually went and
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: dug out her prayer journal and read that afterwards. Terrence
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Malick obviously Knight of the Hunter, some of these sort
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: of dark cultural influences that are out there that Bruce
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: manages to pull together and generate this amazing work.
• 26:20
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, such an interesting collection of people. Flannery O'Connor,
• 26:29
  Speaker 6: I feel like there's only one. They only made one
• 26:32
  Speaker 6: of one. Flannery O'Connor at the Writer Factory. You know,
• 26:37
  Speaker 6: she traveled in a school of one and so much
• 26:42
  Speaker 6: tension between her Catholicism and the desperation that you found
• 26:49
  Speaker 6: in her stories, and so in that way, she was
• 26:53
  Speaker 6: this kind of perfect model for Springsteen, like can you
• 26:58
  Speaker 6: let it go there?
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: It's dark?
• 27:01
  Speaker 6: Can you remove this sliver of redemption that he often
• 27:07
  Speaker 6: put in there because we often want it? But I
• 27:13
  Speaker 6: think one of the lessons of Flannery O'Connor is it
• 27:16
  Speaker 6: can go completely dark, and the hope can be somewhere.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: Outside the work.
• 27:22
  Speaker 6: The hope can be in the fact that there's a
• 27:25
  Speaker 6: connection between the writer and the reader. It doesn't always
• 27:29
  Speaker 6: have to be in the content. And I think that's
• 27:32
  Speaker 6: a profound lesson. Because I never went away from Nebraska
• 27:39
  Speaker 6: saying this record's telling me to end it all. I
• 27:43
  Speaker 6: felt like this record was telling me to listen to
• 27:46
  Speaker 6: it again. So there was some connection between me and
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: his voice as a writer, between me and the characters.
• 27:54
  Speaker 6: So Flannery O'Connor, I feel the same thing. But it's
• 27:58
  Speaker 6: so you know, book is his first contact was you know,
• 28:03
  Speaker 6: John Landau's wife gave Bruce a collection of stories and
• 28:09
  Speaker 6: he just latched onto it. Terrence Malick is as an
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: influence is equally interesting to me because he's about as
• 28:21
  Speaker 6: mysterious as a well known film director could be. He
• 28:27
  Speaker 6: really like disappeared after Days of Heaven, which was the
• 28:33
  Speaker 6: movie after bad Lands, if I'm if I have it right.
• 28:39
  Speaker 8: So Springsteen almost intuitively is finding these creators who are
• 28:48
  Speaker 8: outside of any norms and kind of I wouldn't say
• 28:54
  Speaker 8: that they're lost, but they're they're marginal and really you ways,
• 29:01
  Speaker 8: and He's in a marginal moment in his life and
• 29:05
  Speaker 8: in his art and just intuitively grabs these So it's
• 29:12
  Speaker 8: the book.
• 29:13
  Speaker 6: Really needed to go into those influences, you know. And
• 29:17
  Speaker 6: I listened to your show talking about stark Weather and
• 29:23
  Speaker 6: that's such a centerpiece. You know. I feel like you
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: did a great job getting into the strangeness of what
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: Springsteen's connecting with. And one point I really try to
• 29:39
  Speaker 6: make in the book is that stark Weather as a
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: serial murder was the.
• 29:45
  Speaker 8: First televisual serial murder.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: You know, television is new, and you know the way
• 29:52
  Speaker 6: people thought about the moving image and television, they thought
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: of stars, and you write show stark Weather kind of
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: packaging himself as a star because that was the reference point.
• 30:07
  Speaker 6: They didn't think of television as a place where you
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: got your news so much.
• 30:12
  Speaker 10: It was still newspapers, right right, right, right, Yeah, there's
• 30:16
  Speaker 10: this is the thing you do in your book too,
• 30:17
  Speaker 10: where you kind of you kind of contradict my take
• 30:23
  Speaker 10: on stark Weather.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: And I think you're right where you know, I'm I
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: wasn't there clearly, and I and I and I and
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I just kind of swallowed the sort of historical narrative
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: as it is that he was this James Dean figure,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: and he was, but when you really look at him,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: he's not and there and he's you you rightly point
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that out, that he's like James Dean is a fucking
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: like just he's he's a super nova. You can't you
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: can't fuck with how good looking charismatic that guy is.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Charlie stark Weather is like a like something they cut
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: out of scrap metal version of James Dean. But I
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: think the more important piece there is that the country
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: kind of projects onto him this James Dean thing, and
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: he's there to take it and create this thing. And
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: and you're right, he's out on the margins. Flannery O'Connor's
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: characters are out on the margins. Springsteen's out on the margins,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and he's pulling them all together.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 6: Well that's why, you know, I went into the Springsteen
• 31:25
  Speaker 6: interview going Raging Bull had to have mattered for Nebraska.
• 31:32
  Speaker 6: And it was a really productive moment of me being
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: completely wrong, but Springsteen and telling me why I was wrong,
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: helping me to understand that those other influences on the
• 31:48
  Speaker 6: Nebraska project, like he didn't want the things.
• 31:52
  Speaker 7: That were so that hit so directly, and Raging Bull did.
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: It was this It was recognized as a triumph, whereas
• 32:04
  Speaker 6: bad Lands kind of you know, kind of came in
• 32:07
  Speaker 6: the Arn't house and you know, went away and so
• 32:11
  Speaker 6: did the director and that was the stuff that mattered.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: Just Springsteen right then.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Amazing are We're going to take a quick break, come back, Warren,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: if you're cool with it, we'll come back. And I
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: got a couple questions from some listeners that I can
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: ask you down with that.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: All right, all.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Right, So Warren, I do this thing where I have
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: people call in six one seven nine.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: There were six six sixty three eight.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: They send me voicemails, they text me all in relation
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: to the episodes that were doing the subject matter. I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: was teasing out your book in advance of this interview
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: on some of these bonus episodes. Going to couple of texts,
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: gonna hit you with them, if you're cool with that
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: down Yeah, all right cool. First one from Disco GB
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: in the three two three area code says, quote, you
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: write about Bruce's influence on the Del Fuego's in your book.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: What are what are some of We're sorry this is
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: their writing. What are some of yours and your bandmate's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: favorite Bruce songs from back in the day?
• 33:23
  Speaker 6: Uh, you know, I'm I'm like many people that I love,
• 33:29
  Speaker 6: you know, racing in the streets. I have never tired
• 33:36
  Speaker 6: of that. I love I love backstreets. I love Rosalita. Uh.
• 33:44
  Speaker 6: I loved you know, tunnel of love when it came
• 33:49
  Speaker 6: uh and again some days it's it's growing up.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I Uh.
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: When I got Western Stars, I was really excited because
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: I felt this is the tunnel of love, of this moment.
• 34:07
  Speaker 6: The Seeger sessions felt like a guy who was rediscovering
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: being in a band. So it depends what I'm looking for.
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: But if I were to pick a favorite song today, ah,
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: you know, I'm going to say it's highway patrolman. Highway
• 34:29
  Speaker 6: patrolman just just kills me. And you know, part of
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: it is, you know, when I was in the Del Fuegos,
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: it was with my brother and highway patrolman. I remember
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: talking to Dave Alvin about highway patrolman and Dave was
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: in the Blasters with his brother Phil and as a
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: brother story, you know, when they're both dancing with Maria,
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: there's something going on and the exchange between brothers that
• 35:03
  Speaker 6: is so beyond words, and it's like Springsteen understood this
• 35:11
  Speaker 6: brother experience better than the brothers. Did you listen to it?
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: And it's like, man, he's putting his finger on something
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: that I couldn't even and I just when he you know,
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: lets his brother go at the end, to me, it's,
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: you know, a couple of things are happening. It's like
• 35:42
  Speaker 6: he loves him so much that he's going to let
• 35:45
  Speaker 6: him go and this is bigger than the law. But
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: the other thing is he's really like releasing him so
• 35:54
  Speaker 6: he can carry on with his life. And that's so complicated, right,
• 36:01
  Speaker 6: I mean, either of those two elements are complicated to
• 36:04
  Speaker 6: have them both happening at the same time, it's like
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: that is some sophisticated writing.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the subtext and the nuance is just it's it's heavy.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: There is a reason we keep going back to it,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you know, it's over and over.
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: But then in his note to John Landau when he
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: first gave him the recordings on that cassette tape, he's like,
• 36:27
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure if this is any good.
• 36:31
  Speaker 7: Like that too, Like a lot.
• 36:34
  Speaker 6: Of times, when really great artists get inside of a
• 36:39
  Speaker 6: work of art, the trade off is they can't see
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: it anymore. They can make it that they can't see
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: it to know you just wrote a monster.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is a monster. I have a question
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: about that song HOWI patrolmn uh dancing with Maria while
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: the band played at the night at the Johnstown Flood.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Is that a real That's not a real song, right,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: that's tradition.
• 37:09
  Speaker 6: Not a real song unless I got it wrong. But
• 37:13
  Speaker 6: the beauty is like he comes up with his title
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: and damn it if we don't know that song.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly my point.
• 37:24
  Speaker 6: Yeah, it's just so good, Yeah, totally, Like it's so
• 37:28
  Speaker 6: it's so something you wouldn't dance to that it's got
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: to exist. I mean, right, he just pulls off these
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: little magic tricks.
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right's do another one here, Achy Breaky
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: Dave from the seven four to seven text ask Warren
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: Petty Springsteen, who's next?
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Who's next?
• 37:52
  Speaker 7: Well, I'll tell you.
• 37:56
  Speaker 6: I'm on my fifth book. A lot of a lot
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: of people don't know this, but I'm on my fifth book,
• 38:02
  Speaker 6: working with Garth Brooks on his series of coffee table books.
• 38:07
  Speaker 7: That kind of go through his career.
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: And it's you know, I came in just to help,
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: and it was Garth who gave me. I wasn't even
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: expecting to see a credit. And it was the first
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: one came out, Garth Brooks with Warren Zay's and from
• 38:28
  Speaker 6: day one it's direct artists to artists contact and he's
• 38:35
  Speaker 6: I've learned more than I can tell you from him.
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: You know, about songwriting, about record production, about live performance,
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: about raising children, about basketball, you know, like it goes
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: on and on, and so what's the common thread, Tom Petty,
• 38:57
  Speaker 6: Bruce Springsteen, Garth Brooks. The common thread is the opportunity
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: to hear them talk about their art. So that's that
• 39:07
  Speaker 6: for me, Like I'm spoiled, sick. All I know is
• 39:11
  Speaker 6: whatever's coming next is I need them there because that's
• 39:18
  Speaker 6: where I just want to keep learning. And I've learned
• 39:22
  Speaker 6: a lot from from all three.
• 39:25
  Speaker 8: And you know, I went, I.
• 39:28
  Speaker 6: Went and really sat sat at Jonathan Richmond's feet, saying, Jonathan,
• 39:37
  Speaker 6: let me write a book. And you know that everybody knows,
• 39:41
  Speaker 6: like Jonathan doesn't want anybody writing a book. And I said,
• 39:47
  Speaker 6: you know, Chuck Prophet sent me you. You trust Chuck.
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: I said, you know, if I have to get you
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: to build a pizza oven in my backyard, I'll do it,
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: you know, to get to the book, because builds pizza
• 40:00
  Speaker 6: ovens when he's not on the road. I was like,
• 40:05
  Speaker 6: you know, we'll build a massive pizza oven in my backyard,
• 40:09
  Speaker 6: like whatever it takes.
• 40:10
  Speaker 7: But I know your body is just stuffed with.
• 40:14
  Speaker 6: Stories and the world needs to understand more about you.
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: And I think he already knew in his head, like
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: I'm not building.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: This guy a pizza oven. I'm not talking to this guy.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I got pizza pizza ovens to me, all right.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: So Garth, I just showed my son, my nine year
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: old coincidentally, because we were watching the Academy of Country
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Music Awards the other night and Garth was hosting, so
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: my nine year old was like, who's this guy?
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: So I showed him the video for Friends in Low Places.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Incredible song.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like, you know, sort of like the
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: rock guys don't give Garth Brooks the credit that he deserves.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: He is a beast of a performer. That song he
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: wrote that song, I'm guessing you no, No, he did an.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: Incredible song and just like you know, instantly impactful for
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: anyone of any age. My nine year old was just like,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: I'm in and he's got goody. He was like, I
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: want to know more about this guy.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: So I thought that was he's gone.
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: Garth has a lot that he has written that are
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: those I'm in. Uh, you know, it's very direct, but.
• 41:26
  Speaker 7: It's he's also look his his studio, it was called
• 41:31
  Speaker 7: Jack's Tracks.
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: Now it's called Alan Town after his producer Alan Reynolds,
• 41:37
  Speaker 6: but Jack's Tracks with Cowboy Jack Clement, who came from
• 41:41
  Speaker 6: Son in Memphis and then you know, went over to Nashville.
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: Cowboy Jack was one of the great you know, uh,
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: vigilante characters of country music, and Garth cuts records live there.
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: It's you know, it's he makes them like they used
• 42:00
  Speaker 6: to make them. And I think a lot of people
• 42:03
  Speaker 6: miss that part too, because he's not He's not a
• 42:06
  Speaker 6: retro act by any stretch.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: But that's the way.
• 42:10
  Speaker 6: It's like, bring in those class A players and let's
• 42:15
  Speaker 6: let's have a level of musicianship that allows me to
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: cut my vocal live and we can keep all this
• 42:21
  Speaker 6: stuff and we can feel these humans playing together.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: And I've I just I love that still.
• 42:31
  Speaker 6: I mean, I'm fine with things being on the grid.
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: There's some music that's on the grid that I love.
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: But the idea of an artist with a career is
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: you know, I love the long careers. I love the
• 42:44
  Speaker 6: human beings in the room. I love mistakes. You know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: Nebraska is just the greatest accident ever released. You know,
• 42:57
  Speaker 6: it's the only record Springsteen east as an official release
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: that when he made it, he didn't know he was
• 43:04
  Speaker 6: making an official release. And man, it's it's such a gift.
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: I've I've got a New York Times op ed coming
• 43:13
  Speaker 6: at the end of this week.
• 43:14
  Speaker 10: It really is.
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: I'm getting right up on the pulpit and saying, Bruce
• 43:20
  Speaker 6: gave us all a gift here.
• 43:21
  Speaker 5: And let's all go out and make some mistakes. Yeah,
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: I love that.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: I love that. So that's the Times Times op Ed
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: is coming this week. What else? What else you got
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: cooking before we split?
• 43:32
  Speaker 6: Here?
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: You're traveling at all? You're doing any appearances?
• 43:34
  Speaker 9: You know?
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: I've done some. I did you know a few with
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: with musicians.
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 43:43
  Speaker 6: I'm in a band called Rogue Olaphant. Paul Muldoon, the poet,
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: put a band together really cool. The players from Rogue
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: Olafant were my backing band. And then I had Laura
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: Cantrell and Steve Urle and James Maddock each playing Nebraska
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: songs and I would speak in between them, which to
• 44:04
  Speaker 6: me is the best way to talk about that record,
• 44:08
  Speaker 6: just like get talk about the song, set it up,
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: and then get close to the material. And at one
• 44:16
  Speaker 6: of the shows, my sister makes really beautiful marionettes, but
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: she she made me a marionette of stark Weather, you know,
• 44:27
  Speaker 6: wearing his penitentiary number. And so he's he could speak
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: to me from beyond the grave, and I was able
• 44:36
  Speaker 6: to ask him about how he felt about Springsteen's vision
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: of this, and he, you know, he felt like Springsteen
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: and turning it into a first person story and speaking
• 44:51
  Speaker 6: as stark Weather, you know, stark Weather says.
• 44:55
  Speaker 8: To me, like.
• 44:57
  Speaker 6: In that case, I felt a little bit more scene.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing. All right, Warren, thank you so much, man,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: I appreciate thank you. It's a real treat. I love
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: the podcast and it's it's cool to be on it.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 45:15
  Speaker 11: Man.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: That means a lot. That means a lot. I'm gonna go.
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go climb up that hill, find that radio,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: turn on FNX and keep searching for those del Fuegos tunes.
• 45:25
  Speaker 8: All right, thanks man.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: All right, dude, thanks again, good luck to you.
• 45:29
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 45:33
  Speaker 11: All right.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: That was Warren Zanes. How fucking cool was that guy. Amazing?
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Love that dude. Love that book. Get that book.
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: It's really, really, really good. Let's do a quick recap.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Season twelve of Disgraceland has launched with our episode on
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: Checked that out.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: If you haven't already Number two in the recap list,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Warren Zan's book Delivered Me from Nowhere, a must read
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: for anyone interested in Springsteen and or Nebraska, go read
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: it if you have not already.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Number three.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: Justin Bieber is up next in Disgraceland and over in
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: the bad Lands.
• 46:18
  Speaker 11: Feed.
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: We just launched our episode on James Dean, so check
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: that out. Number four, apologies to all of you for
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: not getting to your voicemails this week. I will double
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: up on them next week's after Party six one seven
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: nine zero six six six three eight to leave me
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: a voicemail or send me a text or at Disgraceland
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: pod on the Socials over in the Badlands Wrap Party
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: bonus episode this week. Lots of your voicemails being answered there,
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: so make sure you check that out this week as always.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Number five, Bruce Springste's Nebraska. I already told you know this,
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: it's out. Go listen to it, all right. My moment
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: of bliss in honor of mister Warren Zan's and mister
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen me reading you the phone book from Nebraska
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty nine. Richmond jay Cement Finisher H one
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: eight one oh VERA M. Student R one zero three three,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: w L Guard neb State Penitentiary, Walter T H four
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: three three four, Saint Paul Ave Walter T and Son
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: Bakers one five two nine, Wanda V R one zero
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: three three n Witten US Army R one zero three
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: three G. S William Helen, Chief Clerk, C B and
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: q H one four three one South seventeenth, Mary P.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: And William H. Fern Rhodes two two nine North eleventh,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: Wilford Minimers, Miller and Payne.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: One six two two North thirty first Cook see also
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Cook and Cook.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Marie M. Missus Mcgrawmaco R. One four three five.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: M Cookson edis Nen Cafe R five.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I want to quit talking and start mixing