Latest / The Nerdy Photographer Podcast / 144 - Nature, Mind, and Lens: Photography, Preservation, and Mental Wellness

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144 - Nature, Mind, and Lens: Photography, Preservation, and Mental Wellness · The Nerdy Photographer Podcast

0:04
Casey Fatchett: We're getting closer. You know, I could have
0:08
flown us to this location, yes, but you're flying in close.
0:13
Might have damaged these sites. Oh, hey there. Welcome to the
0:16
nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your host. Casey Fatchett, if
0:19
you've never listened to the show before. Welcome. Be sure to
0:23
subscribe to the show. It only takes a few seconds. If this is
0:26
your 69th time listening. There is definitely something strange
0:29
afoot at the Circle K in addition to providing
0:31
entertaining and informative photography related info, I also
0:34
go on adventures with the crew of the starship Fibonacci. Right
0:37
now, fib and I are on our way to an ancient indigenous site on
0:41
the planet. Theodorus logonis to document the condition of the
0:45
site for local preservationists. Speaking of preservation, in
0:48
this episode, I speak with landscape photographer Jake case
0:50
about taking steps to preserve locations for future generations
0:54
when gatekeeping is not a bad thing, and how photography can
0:58
help your mental wellness. All that after the break. So how
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much further is it? Nine miles? All a pill. Okay, maybe you
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3:21
Hello and welcome to the nerdy photographer podcast. I'm your
3:31
host, Casey Fatchett, and I'm here today with landscape
3:34
photographer Jake case Jake, welcome to the show.
3:37
Jake Case: Thanks for having me, Casey.
3:39
Casey Fatchett: You're very, very welcome. Before we get
3:41
started, I'm going to roll the dice breaker. It's a 16 what is
3:46
the best photography related advice you've ever received?
3:52
Jake Case: Oh, man, that's I've received a lot of great advice.
3:57
But, um, I would say just get out and spend quality time with
4:04
your camera as often as possible. Because for a long
4:09
time, I was going out like once a month. That's kind of what
4:14
it's been like lately for me to be honest with you. But uh,
4:19
yeah, definitely, when I've taken that advice and spent
4:25
multiple times a week out and about with my camera, it's
4:27
definitely paid off.
4:29
Casey Fatchett: I like how you said quality time with your
4:31
camera, because it's like, it's not just like, actually, it's
4:35
just like, a relationship you got to put in the the time and
4:39
the effort to to improve or just to feel more comfortable.
4:44
Jake Case: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, the photographer that gave me
4:49
that advice, he's kind of a mentor to me, of sorts, and but
4:57
I actually went probably like. Like, eight years without
5:01
speaking to him because I was too anxious and scared and
5:08
fearful to take his advice, and then, and then was like, I can't
5:13
go back to him and tell him I didn't, I didn't take his
5:16
advice, and then I didn't speak to him for a long time. So I was
5:20
exactly that would be my, that would be my personal advice is
5:23
to to not do that if you have a good mentor.
5:27
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, anxiety is such a well, I think we'll get
5:31
more into that later. But like, such a it gets a grip on you. It
5:36
gets like you start to you're in your own head, and you make up
5:43
the conversation or the whatever that you think is going to be
5:46
the case without even finding out what, what's actually going
5:51
to happen. So exactly. So for people who don't know, can you
5:57
enlighten us a little bit into like, what your photography
6:00
journey has been okay.
6:04
Jake Case: I'm going to try to do this without going off on too
6:08
many tangents. But, um, I I started seriously doing
6:13
photography in 2009 I was living in Flagstaff, Arizona, which is,
6:22
you know, an hour and a half from the Grand Canyon, 45
6:24
minutes from Sedona, surrounded by beautiful forests and
6:31
landscapes. And so I was, I was really into hiking, and I was
6:36
taking a like a Samsung point and shoot, eight megapixel
6:41
little thing with me and having a good time taking photos and
6:45
and so I made the jump to getting a DSLR. And then I spent
6:52
probably about eight years doing landscape photography, trying to
6:58
to get better and and do it, you know, as seriously as I could.
7:04
And then I actually my wife and I started a family in 2018 and I
7:13
took about a six year, almost a six year break from photography.
7:17
I just got really busy, and just had a lot of things going on,
7:22
and then recently, within the last, like, year and a half, I
7:28
have gotten back into it.
7:31
Casey Fatchett: Well, you can have like, I love your photos,
7:34
and as a landscape photographer, this is something that I've you
7:39
bring up all the time. I'm also, I'm an avid like hiker as well.
7:46
And you are outspoken about not sharing certain photo locations,
7:54
like things that you found, which some people and it's a
7:58
word that I like almost laugh about when I hear it. In regards
8:02
to, like, experienced photographers, people call it
8:06
gatekeeping. However, it's you believe it's important to
8:11
protect sensitive areas. Why do you think it's necessary to keep
8:16
those locations a secret?
8:21
Jake Case: So I've been around just long enough to remember
8:27
what it was like to visit these outdoor, natural places before
8:36
social media had an influence, and here in Arizona, I mean off
8:42
the top of my head, Horseshoe Bend, which is an icon up near
8:47
page Arizona. It's on the edge of the Colorado River, or Glen
8:52
Canyon, overlooking the Colorado River. And the first time I went
8:58
there was in 2015 and I'd heard stories from people that, you
9:04
know, you used to be able to go there and have the place to
9:06
yourself pretty frequently. By the time I was there in 2015 it
9:12
was, you know, it had blown up on Instagram, and there was
9:16
starting to be more and more people there, and they've now
9:20
started chart having to charge an entrance fee because they
9:23
have to maintain guard rails. They've had to put in a paved
9:29
footpath. And, you know, I wonder if it wasn't for social
9:35
media, what would it be like to go to Horseshoe Bend right now?
9:40
And I have a feeling it would be completely different.
9:43
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I think that there's a there's a certain
9:46
amount of, I mean, I've had the pleasure of traveling a lot of
9:53
the United States and going to different national parks and
9:57
other places, and also places just like off the beaten. Path,
10:00
but it's like, there are, I don't know, like, there's the
10:05
you'll see a photographer take a photo of a particular location,
10:11
or whatever, the beautiful photo, and then online, on
10:13
social media, everybody's like, where is that? I want to go
10:16
there and take that picture? And you're like, hey, there's also
10:19
the like, I put in the work, and I found it myself for one, but
10:25
also, like you said, there are places that this has changed,
10:29
literally changed the landscape to have the amount of, like,
10:34
foot traffic and people coming in there, and they're also,
10:38
like, you've been involved in conversation about archeological
10:42
sites, like locations that are like the cultural significance
10:47
to indigenous people that are getting just like overrun with
10:50
people. And you know, I'll say it like most tourists are
10:53
morons, like they just they mistreat these places and don't
10:56
understand the impact that they have on these locations, I mean,
11:01
and I've traveled to, you know, other places outside of the
11:04
United States, and it's just like, it's the same sort of
11:07
thing, like, once you've I remember going to a location in
11:11
Scotland when my wife and I had gotten married, and we were on a
11:15
honeymoon, and we went again 10 years later, and I had been
11:18
seeing it like More frequently on it was pretty off the beaten
11:22
path then, and then seeing it on social media, you know, more
11:28
frequently. When I was, like, getting it, it was showing up in
11:31
my feeds. I'm like, Oh, I guess some people have found that we
11:33
went back 10 years later, 11 years later, and there's just,
11:37
like, swamped with people and like, you know, there's just,
11:40
like, everybody's in there and they're like, fighting, and
11:42
you're near a cliff, and they're kind of like jockeying for
11:44
position, and I'm like, I don't want to, like, somebody's gonna
11:48
fall there's, you know, like, all of these like, concerns and
11:51
and, you know, I see that the people, the crowd of people who
11:55
are like, Oh, you're gatekeeping and not telling us where these
11:58
locations are. It's like, well, you know, show that you have
12:01
some respect for this location and and you know that you will
12:09
care for it. You know you have to earn that, that information,
12:15
if that's how you if you feel similarly,
12:19
Jake Case: yeah, for sure. And I mean, to be clear, it's not like
12:23
I have a, I wouldn't say I have an influencer level following on
12:29
the internet. So it's not like my photos go go viral or
12:33
anything like that. But, I mean, I do worry that, you know, even
12:38
if I post a photo from a really sensitive and fairly unknown
12:45
location, if an influencer happened to see it, and they,
12:50
you know, didn't have any qualms about posting the GPS
12:55
coordinates or the or directions how to get there, and then it
13:00
did go viral. It would, you know, it would be like, I had a
13:03
hand in it, yeah. So it's part of, it's like, just, you know,
13:08
being careful with what you do with the the knowledge of these
13:14
places, you know, when? So, when I started out in 2009 I was
13:22
really inspired by Arizona Highways magazine, which not a
13:27
lot of people outside Arizona probably know about it, people
13:32
in the in the photography community, more so than the
13:35
general public, I guess. But, but it's, it's a it's a magazine
13:39
owned by the state of Arizona. It's been around since, I can't,
13:46
I don't remember the date offhand or the range, but it's,
13:49
I think, actually, I think this year is their 100th anniversary,
13:54
yeah, so must be 1925 and they've been doing it with the
14:02
purpose of promoting tourism in Arizona and even in 2009 you
14:10
know, it seemed like it. You know, promoting tourism would
14:18
make sense. And to the point in in 2025 where we we have some,
14:23
some many tourists, like the Grand Canyon gets over 5 million
14:26
visitors a year, and the National Parks are setting
14:30
records for attendance and and I'm like, I'm not sure if I want
14:37
to do photography with the purpose of simply promoting
14:41
tourism, right? I would, I would rather do it with the purpose of
14:46
promoting respect and appreciation for nature and
14:51
history and and culture and more conservation. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
15:00
All these, all these things that are that have deeper meanings
15:04
and will foster people treating the land with respect, rather
15:11
than just, you know, promoting it to the masses. And you know,
15:15
to be clear, Arizona Highways magazine actually does an
15:18
excellent job of promoting that respect. And so I think the
15:24
people that they reach with their magazine and their online
15:28
content are are probably, you know, people that are that have
15:33
that respect. And so I don't, I don't necessarily think that
15:37
they're contributing to to destruction of natural places,
15:41
necessarily, but it does put me in a completely different
15:45
mindset now, versus 2009 of, you know what? Why am I? Why am I
15:51
out here with my camera and when I post on the internet or or
15:56
whatever I do with my photos, you know what? What purpose are
15:59
they serving?
16:00
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, you have to think consider what the you
16:03
know, yeah. What is this doing? Is this just bringing more
16:06
people into the state, or is it bringing like or is it making
16:09
people think about preserving and respecting, you know, this
16:13
land and environment and culture, all those things. It's
16:17
really funny that you brought up Arizona's highways magazine. I
16:20
think I had mentioned it to you the first time I talked to you
16:23
about coming on the show. I have a big stack of them, because if
16:29
one day, just out of nowhere, they just started showing up at
16:32
my house, and I had no idea why, and the photos are beautiful.
16:39
And I was just like, this is really lovely and but it was
16:43
about six months and I started wondering, like, did somebody
16:47
gift me a subscription to this magazine? And didn't tell me,
16:53
and I happened to mention it to my mother, and she said, Oh
16:59
yeah, that was me. And I was like, why? I'm just curious.
17:04
She's like, Oh, I saw a copy of it in, you know, doctor's
17:08
office, you know, waiting room, and I thought the pictures were
17:11
just really beautiful, and that you you'd really enjoy it. And
17:15
so I just got you a subscription. And I was like,
17:18
Well, yeah, thank thank you there. But you also could have
17:20
told me that You sent Me, I just had no idea for the like, six
17:24
months, who was sending me copies of Arizona Highways.
17:29
Jake Case: Well, that's, that was a wonderful gift. Then it
17:32
is. It's just,
17:33
Casey Fatchett: I mean, and I, like I said, I still have them,
17:34
because the photos are really beautiful. But like you said,
17:38
it's like, there's you have to consider like, What the what,
17:45
what you're promoting with your photography and like, social
17:48
media can be both a tool for promotion, but it can also be a
17:52
huge source of stress. So how do you balance using social
18:00
platforms for exposure without letting them sort of determine
18:07
your own I think it's one of the things that I determining our
18:12
own self worth, just because, like, there's just so much,
18:15
especially for photographers, like, kind of, we get caught up
18:19
in that whole what's The, what's our follower count and what's
18:22
the, you know, how many are people reacting to our images on
18:25
social media?
18:28
Jake Case: You know, I've that's something that I've definitely
18:31
struggled with. You know, probably a year ago or so, I
18:43
started really kind of rethinking how I was using
18:47
social media. And you and I connected on on threads, and so,
18:57
you know, I actually had an interaction with I'm not, I'm
19:01
not going to say their name because I'm not. You know, that
19:06
would not be classy, but, but I have an interaction with a very
19:11
well renowned landscape photographer on threads, and
19:16
they they basically accused me of they called it algorithm
19:23
gaming. So you could, you could say engagement farming,
19:26
engagement baby, you know, whatever you want to call it.
19:31
And you know, and in some ways, I would call that gatekeeping,
19:36
right, where it's, you know, who are you to tell somebody how to
19:43
use social media? But at the same time, it's, you know, kind
19:51
of like people mistreating wilderness areas or or whatever.
19:56
You know, if there's an abuse where you. Everybody's just
20:01
posting engagement bait, and that's all there is on social
20:04
media. It's, is it going to be a good experience? Probably not,
20:08
you know. So I understand both sides of the story, but, but his
20:13
his comment, kind of lived rent free inside my head for a long
20:17
time. And then, um, you know, and at one point I realized,
20:22
like, you know, some of the stuff I'm doing is maybe just
20:26
for engagement and and I decided to do, I decided to adjust that
20:32
Casey Fatchett: Well, I mean, you have to decide what it what
20:34
it is for you that you're trying to get, like, there are some
20:37
things that I post because it's about having a discussion and
20:39
engaging with other people and be like, Okay, let's actually
20:42
have a discussion. And I react. I think that the thing that
20:45
happens with a lot of time we talk about, like engagement bait
20:48
are just the people who are just looking for build comment will
20:51
have no conversation, will not like, talk to those people at
20:54
all in the like, in the thread or in the comment section or
20:57
wherever, and they all they want is just all the reactions to
21:01
their initial one of the ones I absolutely hate is the like, Are
21:06
there any photographers in x area? Like, I want to connect,
21:12
and it's just like, you'll get, like, they'll have like, 100
21:14
comments in there, like, they won't respond to anybody you
21:18
know, or, like, I'm looking for someone you know, in x area to
21:22
take photos for me, and it's like, when, for what, yeah, just
21:28
like, you know that you've got, all you've done is, like, had
21:30
like 100 people comment asking you the same questions which you
21:35
are not answering. So it's just like, yeah, it's become that, to
21:38
me, is engagement farming that, yeah, just like, you're not
21:41
doing anything other than just try and get people to react to
21:45
your post.
21:47
Jake Case: Yeah, for sure. So and let me say that anytime I've
21:53
posted anything where it's kind of to elicit a response, you
21:58
know, I've always gone through and made a point of commenting,
22:04
responding and trying to do so in a thoughtful way, you know.
22:12
So I think if this person would have looked at my replies and
22:18
looked closer at how I was doing it. Maybe he would have not been
22:22
so rude about how he approached it with me. But at the same
22:27
time, it did make me think, you know, do I need to be, you know,
22:33
posting, posting every day with something where I'm trying to
22:38
get
22:39
Casey Fatchett: people to keep people to
22:41
Jake Case: comment, yeah, you know. And then, and then I'm
22:43
spending, you know, some days I would spend a couple hours
22:47
responding to hundreds of comments, you know. And it was,
22:52
and I just, I just had to rethink, like, is when I'm
22:56
posting, do I really want to have a conversation about this,
23:02
or am I posting it? I'm being willing to have a conversation,
23:07
but really just trying to get I want to share this like, likes
23:12
and comments and whatever.
23:14
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, there's a difference between like, yeah.
23:16
There's the difference between those two things, whether you
23:18
want to have a conversation or whether you're just like, hey,
23:21
tell me what you think of this, you know. And, yeah, those are
23:25
different things. But do you ever feel the pressure like,
23:29
then to just create comment for engagement rather than, like,
23:36
personal fulfillment?
23:38
Jake Case: I mean, sometimes, I mean, it's, it's, like you said,
23:42
when, when there's like, these follower accounts and the
23:44
metrics that you're looking at, and you're trying to, trying to
23:50
promote yourself, you know, it's, it's tempting. And I just,
23:57
I was in a space where I was, I was spending so many hours a day
24:00
on social media, and it wasn't really necessarily a good use of
24:08
my time, either. And yeah, I mean, I've just, I'm just trying
24:14
to, I've tried to go away from that. But on the flip side, I
24:17
did on threads I was doing. I was calling them photo
24:25
showcases, and I would invite people to share a photo and
24:29
those for sure, when you're asking people to share your art,
24:32
you know, I was, you know, trying to comment thoughtfully
24:37
on everybody's photo. It was incredibly time consuming, but I
24:42
did it really, I think, with, you know, the right way. And I
24:49
had tons of people that said that they discovered other
24:56
photographers by looking through those threads that. You know,
25:00
and not even discovered other photographers met people that
25:04
they ended up becoming friends with over the internet, so, you
25:09
know, and and when I was doing that, part of it was to do it
25:13
with to grow my audience. But part of it was to to build
25:22
community online. And so I think that's another aspect of it, is
25:28
that when done right, you can build community in ways that
25:36
just aren't possible if everybody's just posting their
25:40
photo on their own page and saying, Here's my photo, right?
25:43
And that's it. Once you bring, once you get people
25:46
intermingling more, it's, it's, that's the recipe for community
25:52
building, at least on social media.
25:54
Casey Fatchett: And I think there's a follower count in like
25:56
getting more like whatever, more followers comes as it's, you're
26:01
more likely to grow if you're trying to build the community.
26:07
Is the is, like, the main purpose, like, if that's your
26:10
main goal, is to like, you're coming out there and saying,
26:13
like, hey, let's actually like you said. You're actually
26:15
spending the time to communicate with people who do react and
26:19
post their own work or whatever in and you are building that
26:23
community up, the more likely you are to have quality
26:27
followership increases, as opposed to people who are just
26:31
like, Oh, I like that picture. I'm gonna follow and then they
26:33
never react to anything else ever again. You're more likely
26:37
to create an engaged group of people by by, like, spending
26:41
that time community building, as opposed to just engagement
26:46
farming, right? Those are two different, two different types
26:51
of I feel like, where these are, these are engagement farmers and
26:54
community builders are too, like they're two warring professions
26:59
on social media, right?
27:01
Jake Case: And then when you feel like you're a community
27:03
builder and you get accused of engagement farming, right, you
27:07
have to have a thick skin, or you can be like me and and
27:13
stress out about, oh, I do both without the one comment that one
27:17
person said,
27:19
Casey Fatchett: yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I both have fallen
27:23
victim to posting content because I felt that I had to to
27:30
maintain whatever, and especially it's like the like
27:33
with this podcast, like, like, there are things that I post
27:36
where I'm just like, it doesn't get as much engagement as this
27:39
other stuff, but then I'm like, but the people who do engage
27:42
with these types of posts that I put up are the ones that who are
27:46
really getting something out of this, like, they're those are
27:49
the like, that's what. And I might start to stop myself and
27:52
think like, Well, I really need to think about those people who
27:56
are really, like, getting, you know, larger volume, like, like,
28:04
positive reaction from, from the material that I'm putting out
28:10
there, and there's, there's a reason why they're, you know,
28:12
like, those those things consistently get, you know,
28:15
those people to react because they're, they're really getting
28:18
something out of it. And I'm like, Okay, well, I'm not gonna
28:21
stop serving those people the things that they need, because
28:24
they're part of my community. But I've also definitely fallen
28:28
victim to the that one person left a comment that said,
28:34
whatever, like, I had a real last year, at the beginning of
28:37
last year that had like, 3 million views, and I got 100,000
28:42
likes, and there were probably a 1010, or maybe a dozen, like,
28:50
really negative comments, but those are the things I was
28:53
focusing on. Like my wife kept saying, 100,000 people like
28:58
this, 100,000 and then you've got 12 jerks who are, like,
29:05
making comments, like, just like, totally based on your
29:09
appearance or whatever, and like, that's what's living in
29:12
your head. And I'm like, Well, that's what it's like to have
29:15
anxiety. I focus on those things.
29:21
Jake Case: Yeah, the one. That's why I try to stay in the
29:26
mindset. And it's, it's hard, but I try to say, stay in the
29:33
mindset of spreading love and kindness. And if I, if I don't
29:38
have something nice to say to somebody, I try not to say it,
29:43
Casey Fatchett: yeah, I mean, I try to be that way. And there's
29:46
like one time where this guy was, like, promoting a,
29:51
basically, an influencer photographer whose work was not
29:56
very good. And, you know, frankly, my opinion, he. That
30:00
this person even referred to it as mediocre or worse, like, they
30:06
called it that, and then said like, but occasionally takes a
30:09
pretty good photo. And I'm like, Yeah, everybody can occasionally
30:14
take a pretty good photo. I mean, like, the whole point of
30:16
like, but you're like, talking about how people should pay more
30:19
attention to this person, because they, every once in a
30:22
while, manage a good picture, like, Why? Why? Why are you
30:26
saying that? Why aren't you like, I prefer to promote people
30:31
who have a small following, who can are consistently like,
30:36
putting out, like, really good stuff, but other people aren't
30:39
seeing it. And I'm trying to like, signal boost those people
30:43
and be like, Hey, check this out. This is really great stuff.
30:47
And, like, they are consistently putting out, like, really good
30:50
stuff, and you should go check that out, instead of being like,
30:54
this influencer who's got a million followers already, who
30:59
you're saying, like, you know, 5% of their work is worth
31:02
looking at. They don't need your help. Like, they don't need you
31:06
to be sitting there going like, Oh, they're actually, you know,
31:09
occasionally, put out a pretty good photo, and they're like,
31:12
Well, I guess you're, and this person's response was, Well, I
31:15
guess you're, that's, you know, you're not really about
31:17
supporting other photographers, are you? And I was like, this
31:20
person does not mean need my support. Like, like, they're
31:24
getting, you know, huge deals like getting getting paid all
31:28
the time and have literally millions of followers. They
31:32
don't need me. Like, signal amplifying them. Like, this is
31:37
not like, you're really missing the point. And, yeah, I try not
31:41
to get involved in arguments like that, but I try to be, keep
31:47
it, you know, positive. But there's sometimes I'm like,
31:50
You're gonna break me my I'm gonna, I want to be the bigger
31:56
person. But sometimes that little tiny bit of like, Yeah,
32:02
let's actually support the smaller people out here who
32:05
need, actually need help, or could use, like, some attention
32:11
to encourage them, you know, as opposed to the people who are
32:15
just, you know, happen to be famous because of their family.
32:20
I'll tell you about it later. I don't, I don't want to get into
32:23
it, making the focus of this, but, I mean, but it that sort of
32:28
thing, though, like, I think that that when you see someone
32:31
who's basically a celebrity who's getting attention for
32:35
their quote, unquote artistic work, which is, you know,
32:39
whatever, in then you're like, you're like, feel like you're
32:43
way, way down. It boosts the imposter syndrome, because you
32:48
see these people who you may objectively think their work
32:54
isn't any better than mine, but they're getting all this much
32:58
more attention, you start to feel less about yourself that
33:02
the comparison and the imposter syndrome, or the fear of not
33:06
being good enough, it's something that I've struggled
33:11
with a lot in I don't know, it's impacted how I've progressed as
33:20
a photographer, has Have you had similar experiences?
33:24
Jake Case: Or Absolutely. I mean, that's probably why I went
33:29
eight years without talking to my would be mentor, because I
33:35
felt, you know, I felt inferior and I felt like an imposter. Is
33:40
it his advice that I actually couldn't, that I couldn't bring
33:43
myself to take, was to cold call that the editor of Arizona
33:47
Highways magazine and introduce myself, you know, just because
33:54
I, you know, I felt like I wasn't, I wasn't worthy. I
34:01
wanted to be worthy, but I didn't feel like I was. And I
34:05
still, I mean, but it's still, it still affects me to this day.
34:10
It's, it's a hard thing to completely get around. I feel
34:16
like it's and once again, this is also something that I don't
34:22
actually do all the time, because it's hard. But you know,
34:25
just trying to keep moving forward. You know, baby steps,
34:30
bit by bit, is important, no matter how how anxious you feel
34:36
or how much imposter syndrome you have, what your fears are,
34:41
Casey Fatchett: yeah, I feel like I've, I mean, I'm 25 years
34:45
into this, and I'm like, I still feel sometimes. I'm like, wow.
34:50
Like, am I good enough? Am I like, you know, what's the you
34:59
know, like, what. Why am I still doing this? And people are going
35:01
to figure out that I'm not as good as I think I am, or
35:04
whatever like, and again, my wife or other people like
35:08
playing like, there you have hundreds of reviews from people
35:11
who are like, tell you that they love your work and that you not
35:15
just the work but the way that you treated them. And it's just
35:18
like, like the service that you gave them and made them feel
35:21
better about themselves and more comfortable. Like, how can you
35:24
not look at that and think you had a positive impact? And I'm
35:27
like, I don't know. Maybe they think they're just trying their
35:32
you know, they weren't telling the truth. They just, like, why
35:34
would they take the time to leave a review and not tell the
35:37
truth about you? Yeah, it's something that I've dealt with a
35:41
lot, and it's, it's extended into this, into even into this
35:45
show, where I, I find it very difficult to reach out to
35:47
people, to ask them to be on the show, because I feel like, Oh,
35:51
why would they want to be on my show? And yeah, then all of a
35:56
sudden somebody will come to reach somebody will reach out to
36:00
me and be like, Hey, I'd love to be on the show. And I'm like,
36:01
Really, why? And I'm talking myself down for no reason
36:07
whatsoever. It's like, you know, like, no accept it, except they
36:10
want to be on except that they that people like you, yeah.
36:15
Jake Case: I mean, I would think most photographers would want to
36:19
come on your show. I would hope so. And if they don't, they're
36:23
probably jerks. I don't
36:26
Casey Fatchett: want to talk to them anyway, exactly. Yeah,
36:29
it's, I don't know it. And I think it has more to do with, I
36:34
mean, if you feel this is the case with cold calling Arizona
36:39
Highways, there's the part of me that's like, oh, you know
36:42
they're not. It's the anxiety about it we talked about this
36:47
preempts the actual reaction. Like, you don't find it like,
36:52
there's I haven't written on a post it note in my office. It's
36:55
like, the worst thing they can say is no, so at least make them
37:01
say it like he like, don't just think, Oh, they're gonna say no.
37:05
Like, they have to actually say, like, there's the possibility
37:08
that they won't say no. Like, there's been times when I've
37:12
been at conferences or whatever and met photographers who I was
37:18
like, Oh, I'd love to have this person on the show. And I'm not
37:20
going to ask them. They're going to say no. And then, like, screw
37:25
up the courage and be like, Hey, would you like to come on? And
37:27
they're like, Yeah, sure. Be great. Like, oh, what? And then
37:31
I start to freak out about having them on, but yeah, it's,
37:35
it's in, it goes through to the the work itself. Like, when
37:38
you're, when you were, you were so personally connected to your
37:41
work. I think in this industry, like, I made this photo, I made
37:48
this. This is me, especially when your name, like, my name is
37:52
my business, like, I take things very personally. I don't know
37:58
how you feel about that, like, but when someone comments on
38:00
your work. Even that one, like we said before, that one
38:03
negative comment will live in your head, because you're like,
38:07
Oh, this is about me personally. This becomes about me as like,
38:12
it's somehow inside, as opposed to, oh, this is just somebody
38:16
else's like, this person is going through whatever they're
38:19
going through, you know, like, I don't have to, like, worry
38:23
about, like, their offhand comment about my work and let it
38:29
shape how I see myself. But sometimes we do. That's the
38:33
unfortunate thing.
38:36
Jake Case: Yeah, the the best advice is always the hardest to
38:40
take, yes, when it when it comes to, when it comes to any of this
38:46
stuff. So, so most people giving the advice are only able to take
38:50
it part of the time, yeah, and you don't realize the that
38:55
they're still going through their ongoing struggles. And
38:58
that's what I that's what I always like to clarify is I'm
39:01
not, I'm not perfect. I don't have it all figured out, but
39:05
I'm, I'm doing my best to take the baby steps to move forward.
39:09
Yeah.
39:10
Casey Fatchett: I mean, it's totally that do as I say, not
39:12
necessarily as I do, kind of thing. But there's also, like
39:15
you said, there's everybody goes through their own journey, and
39:18
everybody struggles with people struggle with different things.
39:22
I mean, I know people who are, like, super confident in
39:25
themselves and believe they can do it, but then they're insecure
39:30
about other things. People, like everybody has their insecurities
39:34
about different stuff, like and so when you think about a
39:38
photographer's journey, like everybody. I made fun of it in
39:43
some reels and stuff on Instagram or whatever. Like, you
39:46
know, I'm not going to compare myself to other people because I
39:49
suck. It's like, no. It's like, because we all go through
39:53
different stuff, and we all like, have those moments where
39:56
we think that something wasn't good enough. It doesn't matter.
40:00
Like, I've talked to us, like so many people, what people will
40:04
call, quote, unquote, successful photographers, who've been at it
40:08
for years and years and years and years, who imposter
40:13
syndrome, just like, will pop up, like, there's no like, it's
40:17
just, it happens. It's just how you deal with it.
40:20
Jake Case: Yeah, I saw, I saw on threads, there was somebody
40:25
posting about imposter syndrome. I can't remember if they were. I
40:29
think it was an artist of some sort. I'm not a photographer,
40:33
but like a painter. But regardless, they posted about
40:37
their imposter syndrome, and Stephen King commented, and he
40:42
was like, Don't worry, we all suffer from that. It's natural.
40:48
I still suffer from it. And so, you know, don't, don't, don't
40:53
feel too bad about yourself. It's, it's, it's completely
40:55
natural, yeah.
40:56
Casey Fatchett: And if Stephen King's telling you that he still
40:59
suffers from imposter syndrome, like, I mean, look at how many
41:06
like I don't know. It's just like, it's depression and
41:10
anxiety. Are such like things that people don't think that
41:19
successful people have like people don't like, think that
41:24
like you are good at this. So you must think that you know,
41:28
you must be confident like, no, there's plenty of people who
41:32
like, suffer from, we said, imposter syndrome, or just like
41:36
are anxious about different types of situations. I'm anxious
41:39
about talking to people that I don't already know. Like, that's
41:44
the, that's the my whole thing was, like, trying to talk to
41:46
somebody I'm trying to networking was always very hard
41:51
for me in the beginning of my career, because I just and
41:54
people found that weird, because I was an actor. They're like,
41:57
Oh, you're used to going out and, like, talking to in front
42:02
of huge groups of people. I'm like, Yeah, but that's different
42:04
than, like, walking up to somebody one on one, when you
42:06
don't have a character in a script, and you just, like, try
42:10
to talk to them, like people in in my interviews and other
42:14
things, like finding out that everybody has, like, this one,
42:17
like it has at least one hang up somewhere. There's something
42:22
that kind of holds them, like, back in a way that you have to
42:26
figure out how to cope with it and move past it and like, find
42:32
the way to like, not necessarily, it's going to
42:34
disappear. I think that's the one thing that people always
42:37
think is going to happen, is like, Oh, I'm going to find some
42:40
way to make this never a problem again. And the real thing is
42:44
like, just recognizing it, going like, oh, there's that thing
42:47
again, and then moving past it, it's like, not that it's never
42:50
gonna You're never gonna feel that way. It's just that you're
42:54
going to be able to go, Hmm, okay, and cope with it and move
42:58
forward, right?
43:01
Jake Case: Yeah, I am for a long because I so I have the same
43:07
thing you'd have with talking to people that you don't know,
43:12
you've never met, etc, not just speaking with them. It could be
43:16
emailing them. Yeah, you know, it's, it's kind of crazy how
43:21
deep it can go, but, um, you know, and I feel like I never
43:25
really learned how to consciously cope with that, or,
43:30
you know, it's hard to describe, but so when I was 18, when I got
43:36
my or 17, maybe I got my first job as a dishwasher in a pizza
43:40
restaurant, and I had to answer the phone when people called and
43:47
take down their order for their delivery or whatever, and and I
43:51
was so scared to do that the phone would ring and I would go
43:55
run and hide in in the walk in freezer, and then the cook would
44:00
have to Stop what he was doing and go answer the phone, and
44:03
then he'd be all mad at me. And then, but, but, you know, out of
44:07
necessity, it was, you know, like, like, when I was getting
44:12
my first apartment, and I was actually gonna have to pay rent.
44:16
Working as a dishwasher wasn't going to cut it. And so at that
44:20
point, I was at a different restaurant, and I had to ask if
44:24
I could help making coffee, be the barista, work the cash
44:29
register, because it was like I needed more money, and I would
44:32
make more money if I got tips by doing that. And then so, out of
44:36
necessity, through my whole life, I did all these different
44:38
things, where it was like survival mode, almost where it
44:42
was like my hand was forced. It's like, if you know, yeah, I
44:47
can't live with my I don't want to live with my parents my whole
44:50
life, and I can't be homeless. So I have to go and do X, Y and
44:53
Z, and it's only been kind of within the last year that I've
44:59
even gone to. Therapy for my anxiety, and really consciously
45:04
approached it. It's hard, and I'm 39 years old now.
45:09
Casey Fatchett: It's hard to do. It's hard to I mean, I've been
45:14
in therapy three separate times. You know, I'm currently on about
45:22
three or round three or whatever. It's just ongoing, but
45:25
it's, it is, you know, in each of those things, it was hard
45:30
each time, to to go in and address whatever was causing an
45:36
issue and and really digging into it, because it's a and
45:41
everybody comes to it at their own pace, like you can't force
45:44
yourself, like you have to be ready to deal with the issue for
45:50
it to actually have any effect. Because if you're not ready to
45:53
deal with it, it's not going to do anything, because you're
45:56
going to be fighting it the whole way, because you're going
45:59
to think it's not really a problem. It's something
46:02
whatever. And I'm just doing this to pay lip service to
46:05
whatever, but I highly recommend that people seek help if they're
46:10
having problems. And like I was a person who, I mean highly
46:19
functioning anxiety, like, used my anxiety superpowers when I
46:25
was younger to multitask and do tons of stuff and perfectionist
46:30
and all these things, but then ended up, you know, burning
46:33
myself out in a lot of ways, just like feeling like I
46:36
couldn't take you can't go at 100% All the time you wear down
46:41
and sort of realizing that you have limited bandwidth and you
46:47
need to be kind to yourself and say it's okay to take a break.
46:51
It's okay to not get everything on your to do list done every
46:56
day, right? Like it's just the you know the end. This is a,
47:01
this is a something I was struggling with earlier in the
47:04
day, like now we're recording. There were, I accomplished seven
47:10
things on my to do list, but none of them were work related.
47:14
So I was beating myself up that I hadn't gotten any of the work
47:17
related stuff done. Meanwhile, I had accomplished seven tasks
47:23
that I was going to have to do anyway at some point, right?
47:26
Like, and I got those things out of the way so that I can then go
47:29
and focus on work stuff. But like, it's still that fighting,
47:33
that sense of, Oh, you didn't, you didn't do it. You didn't do
47:37
the right thing. You weren't focusing on the proper thing?
47:41
Jake Case: Yeah, I struggle with that as well.
47:44
Casey Fatchett: Do you find okay? I really do. So. Do you
47:47
find that photography serves as another form of therapy or an
47:52
outlet for you working through your emotions or anxiety?
47:56
Jake Case: You know, it's complicated, because I've, you
48:05
know, part of my journey has been, you know, the last year
48:13
ish, trying to operate as a professional photographer. And
48:20
so it's kind of, let me tell this little bit of a story. In
48:27
October 2023, I was drawn to get back into photography, and I had
48:35
all these Grand Canyon photos. I used to work as a tour guide up
48:40
the Grand Canyon. And so I had all these photos from like, 2013
48:45
2014 that hadn't been seen in years. And I was like, Well, I'm
48:50
going to post them on my social media accounts. And so it's
48:55
like, every day for two months, I probably posted a Grand Canyon
48:59
photo each day. And it was, you know, incredibly, incredibly
49:08
lucky, but a publisher that was looking for a photographer that
49:13
had some Grand Canyon images in their portfolio came across me
49:19
via my Facebook account and reached out to me and offered me
49:22
a book deal, which is like, I mean, now, like a year past that
49:29
on like, that was absolutely insane, yeah. I mean, it's like,
49:33
and there's a lot of, there's so many photographers that that
49:36
have that are, you know, 30 years into their careers or
49:43
more, and don't have that type of a book deal for photography
49:47
book. And it was like, I was, you know, back into it for two
49:52
months and that, and really that was, you know, getting off for
49:56
that book deal was kind of a turning point where I was, like,
49:59
you. Know, you know, I was in the photography for so long, and
50:06
then I got away from it, and, you know, I'm getting back into
50:12
it. I'm looking, you know, I've been kind of in almost like a
50:14
midlife crisis for for probably, you know, for probably two
50:20
years. And so it was like, maybe I could be a professional
50:25
photographer, and then then the year since, that has been a
50:31
roller coaster of for my mental health, because, I mean, just
50:36
incredible highs of like, I get offered this book deal, and then
50:40
it gets published, and I receive it. And I had a lot of time this
50:48
year to this past year to go out, and I was doing storm
50:52
chasing during thunderstorm season and and I had some other
50:59
opportunities to come up, I photograph some really
51:01
architecturally significant residential homes that have not
51:07
been photographed more than a couple times at most by
51:12
professionals. But at the same time, you know, my anxiety was
51:18
kind of at its peak, and especially after, before I got
51:25
back into photography, I was working in digital marketing,
51:31
and I worked for a law firm, and I had a side business, and it
51:39
was all remote work for The most part, especially when covid hit,
51:42
we all went remote. We didn't want to not be remote. And I
51:46
think a lot of the coping mechanisms I learned from my
51:49
social anxiety, from being in a workplace with other people, I
51:52
think it was like it atrophied. And then the last year, when
51:58
I've had to approach my social anxiety, once again, it's just
52:02
been incredibly, incredibly hard. And then, and then there's
52:07
that and stress of, okay, I'm doing this professionally. I
52:09
need to be making money. I need to be promoting myself on social
52:13
media. You know, my level of stressors this year was at its
52:19
peak, and it was all kind of related to photography. So, so I
52:23
would, you know, the days where I would be like, Okay, I'm just
52:27
going to go out and drive around the desert and chase
52:29
thunderstorms and, yeah, and whatever was, you know, was
52:34
incredibly, you know, liberating and, you know, kind of my happy
52:39
place. But then on the flip side, you know, there's all
52:43
these, all these other stressors related to trying to do it
52:47
professionally and not just at a hobby, that kind of flipped it
52:51
the other direction.
52:52
Casey Fatchett: Yeah, I can 100% identify with that, like that. I
52:56
had read this article somewhere where somebody had written it
52:59
was like, oh, you know, photography is an
53:01
antidepressant, and, you know, whatever. And it was just all
53:04
this thing. It was very, I don't know, it was all very positive.
53:10
And I was trying not to be and I was thinking, like, Yeah, I
53:12
mean, I get that because, like, both sides of it where there are
53:17
times when I can go out and I'm like, this brings calm to my
53:22
mind, like, like focusing on the photography and a project, or
53:27
whatever it is, where I am, you know, I can just be present in
53:32
this moment, see what I want to shoot, capture my images. But
53:38
then there's also the when you talk about the professional side
53:40
of it, like, it is your business, it is your job. And
53:46
they're like, people who don't understand, like, Oh, if I go
53:49
out and shoot and now I've got to edit all this stuff, there's
53:53
a difference between, like, the stuff that I shoot for myself,
53:56
which tends to end up at the bottom of the pile, because I've
53:59
got to do the stuff that I'm getting paid for first, because
54:03
that's like, you know, you got to keep that train rolling so
54:07
that you're getting paid and you're making money. And then it
54:09
becomes this whole it becomes, it's work. So there's the times
54:13
where, like, people will be like, Oh, why don't you take
54:14
your camera to, like, this event, whatever. Because, like,
54:17
you know, this like, Oh, we're all getting together, why don't
54:20
you bring your camera along. And I'm like, because then it makes
54:22
me feel like work, and I just want to be here with people and
54:27
hang out. I don't want to, like, be documenting. And there's,
54:31
there are times when I also, like, where I started to think,
54:37
like, maybe I do want to bring a camera with me. Maybe I want to
54:40
bring my film camera with me, because I only want to take 24
54:45
pictures. I don't want to sit here like, shooting hundreds of
54:52
digital photos. Like, I just want to, like, know that I've
54:55
got a certain number of exposures, and I'm going to
54:58
shoot that, and that may. Is, like, I don't know, I talk to
55:02
people a lot about how that there's, there's something
55:04
freeing and focusing about it to, like, think I've only got X
55:09
number of exposures that I can do. Like that, even though it's
55:13
limiting in its way, it was also freeing in a sense, where, you
55:18
know, like, I'm just trying to, capture as many things as I
55:21
possibly can. But yeah, so I can see like, there's there's this,
55:27
it can be a wonderful outlet. Photography can be a wonderful
55:30
outlet. But can also when, like you said, when it becomes your
55:34
job, it also adds all this whole other, like, completely
55:38
different strata of stressors to your life.
55:43
Jake Case: So I would say that based on what I've gone through
55:49
in the last year and a half. You know, I think I like photography
55:56
better as an art form for me to express myself with more so than
56:03
I like it as as a profession, but I don't know as as I go
56:07
through, I mean, I'm, I'm still at, you know, very early on in
56:14
confronting my my mental health struggles And so, you know, so,
56:21
so as time goes on, you know, maybe I'll get more comfortable
56:24
with it. Right now, I'm, actually, I'm, I'm doing very
56:28
little photography currently, I recently started working as a
56:38
tour guide. That's something that I did very passionately.
56:43
And then when I started a family, I switched careers to
56:46
something more lucrative, but soul sucking, and now, and so.
56:51
So I decided that in order to get some steady income coming in
56:56
and to, you know, and part of it was confronting my social
57:00
anxiety. It's like, I used to be a tour guide. I used to be
57:04
really good at it. It helped me, you know, be social with people,
57:09
talk to people. And there was like, You know what? So if, if
57:15
you need to cold call somebody for your own business, it's,
57:20
it's only you yourself that's holding you to doing that. But,
57:24
but when you work for somebody else, and it's like, okay, at
57:27
four o'clock you have to go to this hotel and pick up six
57:30
guests and take them on a tour, you can't be like, I'm too
57:36
anxious to do that. I'm gonna, I'm gonna blow that off. But,
57:39
you know, and and so we're, you know, we're working for myself.
57:44
Over the last year and a half, it was, you know, it was so easy
57:49
to just to procrastinate when I got overly anxious about about
57:54
things. And so I'm like, I think it would be good for me to go
57:58
back to working for somebody else. And then I have that, that
58:04
greater accountability, and I think it's been, I think it's
58:07
been good for me, and it's also made me realize that, you know,
58:12
as I continue to try to, you know, have my own photography
58:18
business, you know, or photography related business,
58:21
you know, it should, you know? I think it might make more sense
58:24
for me to be a guide. And I'd like to figure out my own unique
58:30
spin on, on doing it, rather than just doing photo workshops,
58:35
similar delete to how so many other photographers do them, I'd
58:40
like to come up with, like, a unique, a unique offering. But,
58:45
you know, for me, it's, you know, I've kind of come to
58:48
realize that, you know, being a working photographer, where I
58:56
shoot for a client, and I have to turn around edits, you know,
59:00
pretty quickly, and you have, like, one day to get all the
59:05
shots or whatever. And you know that part of it, I don't know if
59:12
my heart's in that it's hard, you know, but I found myself, my
59:17
heart is in taking people out for experiences and and kind of
59:23
these values that I place on my photography of showing people
59:31
the value of nature and history and culture, you know that that
59:36
translates into into the guide work for me. And so I'd like to
59:41
figure out a way to meld it all together.
59:44
Casey Fatchett: I think what you're talking about, though, is
59:45
something that you're finding, something that is specific to
59:49
you and what motivates you and what gets the best out of
59:55
yourself, like in and that. This is one of those things that I
1:00:01
tell people when they're starting out, and they're like,
1:00:05
they they're like, I'm going to be a full time photographer. And
1:00:08
I'm like, Man, I made that decision too early myself. I
1:00:13
made that decision. I thought, like, oh, it's all just gonna
1:00:16
like, you know, I'm gonna get this job and this job and
1:00:19
there's gonna be, like, the magic bullet job that's going to
1:00:21
solve all my problems for forever moving forward? No,
1:00:24
that's not how it works. And I wish that I had taken more time
1:00:29
to really focus myself and figure some things out and do it
1:00:34
part time for, you know, a little bit longer and really
1:00:41
know what I was trying to do, like, and understand, like, the
1:00:46
business side of it, like, where it was going to go, like you're
1:00:49
talking about, like, how am I going to, what am I going to?
1:00:51
What are my offerings going to be? How's it going to be
1:00:53
different than what other people are already putting out there?
1:00:57
And how do I make it something that both appeals to me and to
1:01:00
other people? Because if it doesn't appeal to me, then why
1:01:02
am I doing it? But yeah, it's, it's, I think that that's a very
1:01:07
healthy way to go about it. And I think what you're finding is,
1:01:10
as you were talking about it, I could see your demeanor change,
1:01:15
and that you're bringing other people along for something that
1:01:21
means so much to you as a guide, I think is something you can use
1:01:29
to sort of crystallize what you're going to offer the world.
1:01:33
As a photographer, if you choose to do some sort of, you know,
1:01:38
workshop or guiding people on photo tours, or whatever it is,
1:01:42
whatever it ends up being. I think you using this experience
1:01:48
right now as like to help you sort of crystallize that message
1:01:53
is going to help you a lot. I think that that's that's
1:01:57
something that you know. I think a lot of people who are starting
1:02:03
out on the professional side of their photography journey. Could
1:02:10
pump the brakes and really think about that stuff. Because I see
1:02:13
more people who get into trouble financially or just, you know,
1:02:19
mentally or whatever, like the I've seen people like, really,
1:02:22
just like their business blew up without them really thinking, is
1:02:25
this what I want to do? Like they suddenly went from doing
1:02:30
five to 10 jobs a year, being very part time, really enjoying
1:02:36
that nature of it. And then all of a sudden they're doing 60 or
1:02:38
70 jobs a year, and they're completely overwhelmed, and
1:02:45
didn't know what to do with with with that amount of work, they
1:02:49
just couldn't handle it. And, yeah, it might seem like, oh,
1:02:55
well, it must be nice to have that, you know, oh, I've got all
1:02:58
these jobs to choose from. Like, Well, no, it's the overwhelming,
1:03:02
and then you don't know how to handle. You don't have a scale
1:03:05
up to that can be, you know, a huge pressure on you mentally,
1:03:11
for sure, yeah, the
1:03:14
Jake Case: I shot an event at a it was at a conference back in
1:03:22
the fall. And it was the, I mean, I hadn't really
1:03:29
photographed something of that skill before, in that way, being
1:03:33
like a landscape photographer, and then I'm, you know, then I'm
1:03:37
getting paid to walk around and take pictures of people. But, I
1:03:40
mean, and also getting it was at like a shipping conference for
1:03:47
freight shipping, so I was taking photos of, like, shipping
1:03:50
containers. And, you know, like, it was kind of a weird mix of
1:03:54
things, but I remember, you know, I had to turn around the
1:04:00
edits pretty quick and whatnot. And it like, it creatively burnt
1:04:05
me out for about two weeks where I didn't, you know, when I
1:04:10
thought about going in, like, Okay, I'm gonna go take photos
1:04:12
for me, right? It was like, I don't like, I didn't feel like I
1:04:16
had the juice. So that's another aspect of it for me too, is if
1:04:23
what I like most about the photography is expressing myself
1:04:28
through art, you know, I could see that if I was, you know, if
1:04:32
I, if I was having multiple jobs a month, like, I would have no
1:04:35
capacity for, for the part that I actually truly love, yeah,
1:04:41
like, like, you said it, you know, when it becomes work,
1:04:45
yeah?
1:04:46
Casey Fatchett: And there's this sort of like, really, for me,
1:04:49
there are things that like for my wedding photography work,
1:04:52
okay, I often get asked, like, Oh, do you still it's been,
1:04:55
you've done this, you know, 800 and something times, and you
1:04:59
like, do. You still enjoy it? I'm like, yeah, they're the
1:05:01
things that I enjoy are the working with people like and
1:05:04
getting to know the couples that I work with. Those are the
1:05:06
things that, even for my social anxiety, that is the getting to
1:05:11
know them and form that connection is what makes me feel
1:05:14
more comfortable with them, and them feel more comfortable with
1:05:16
me, so that when the day of the wedding comes around, everything
1:05:19
is just like, super smooth. We've got a great rapport. And
1:05:23
in we're just living in the emotional state of the day. And
1:05:27
that's what like that part I really love. Those are things.
1:05:31
It's the business side of it. It's the editing. Those are the
1:05:34
things that I'm like, okay, I can bet like when I realize what
1:05:37
the things I like about this are, so that I can when the
1:05:41
business ways I can find my find ways to focus more on that stuff
1:05:45
and outsource where I can on the things that don't like, really,
1:05:50
like, I'm not really jazzed about doing helps a lot in the
1:05:55
long run. And also, I mean, you're talking about like, oh,
1:05:59
it's there's a big difference between doing this for work and
1:06:01
doing it for myself. And I've found that having found that
1:06:02
having personal projects has for me, has made me way more
1:06:10
focused, enjoy, find my passion again, for in creativity again,
1:06:15
because during the pandemic, like I was had no work, like
1:06:20
everything shut down. My parents died. You know, it was like, all
1:06:26
this, like, the hits just kept coming, and it was just like,
1:06:29
okay, like, yeah, like, and I just, I felt like I had, I
1:06:32
didn't have the juice. I just didn't have, like, the thing.
1:06:36
And so I just started creating projects for myself to do, and
1:06:41
just like, giving myself little things to do. And like over
1:06:43
time, like it's been five years, but it's like, I feel like I'm
1:06:47
finally back to a place where those personal projects have
1:06:52
really given me the space to play and do things that, you
1:07:01
know I don't necessarily get to do in my work, but I've also
1:07:04
brought things that I've learned from doing that, and like how
1:07:06
I've grown in that creative aspect of I brought it back to
1:07:10
my work, work, I just think it's helped me. Having those things
1:07:18
that I do just for me has helped me better serve the people who
1:07:22
are paying me,
1:07:24
Jake Case: for sure. So I've been, I've actually been working
1:07:29
on a I call it daily dose of the Southwest. I serve it as an
1:07:36
email and then, and then the carbon copy of it goes out as a
1:07:41
blog post. And I basically pick a photo, and then I write, you
1:07:49
know, a few 100 words and and it's, I mean, I call it daily
1:07:53
dose of the Southwest. And every photo I choose is like, you
1:07:57
know, usually a nature photo, maybe urban landscape or
1:08:00
something from one of the southwestern states. But it's, I
1:08:05
mean, in some ways, it's almost like I write like a journal, and
1:08:12
then it happens to get emailed out to, I'm very grateful. I
1:08:17
have almost 100 people subscribed to this email list,
1:08:20
and it's, you know, and it's usually kind of a rather I'm
1:08:24
usually rather vulnerable with what I express in there, and it
1:08:29
helps me. And then the feedback I get from, I mean, my, you
1:08:34
know, like, if you want to talk about metrics, like, my open
1:08:38
rate for this email list is like 70% that's an alternative. And
1:08:43
it's like, you know, and I've sent, I think I'm almost to 80
1:08:48
emails that I've sent. But most of the people that are
1:08:51
subscribed are people that I've or either real life people that
1:08:55
I know, are people that I've gotten to know through threads
1:08:59
or Facebook or or blue sky or wherever. And so they're, you
1:09:05
know, it's, it's, it's not like it's, if it was going out to a
1:09:09
million people, most people would be like, Yeah, we don't
1:09:11
care what this what this guy has to say, but it's like you were
1:09:16
saying earlier. It's kind of like building, building a
1:09:19
community and building deep connections with your audience
1:09:22
and that. And so that's been kind of my main project. And
1:09:26
even though I haven't been shooting a lot of photos, you
1:09:31
know, five days a week every weekday, I send that out, and
1:09:39
it's been, it's been pretty cool because, I mean, I I like to
1:09:42
write, and I've always liked to write, and so I'm like,
1:09:45
exercising my writing, yeah, and then it helps me go deeper into,
1:09:51
to the into my photos and express like the metaphors.
1:09:55
Because on social media, oftentimes it feels like when
1:09:58
you post a photo like. Want to write like a clever five to
1:10:03
seven word sentence or whatever, and a lot of the photos I've
1:10:08
been creating this year that I really like are like metaphors
1:10:11
for myself or for how humanity treats nature or how humanity
1:10:16
mistreats nature. You know, you know these deeper these deeper
1:10:21
concepts. And so by doing the email, I get to express that and
1:10:25
have people think about those things that they might not think
1:10:29
about. Just by looking at the photo,
1:10:32
Casey Fatchett: you're telling the story behind the creation of
1:10:35
the photo, and you're getting a chance to be journaling is
1:10:39
always a good thing to do, but it's the by doing that you're
1:10:42
exploring your own feelings and connection to the work. And I
1:10:46
think that that's something that helps, especially when it comes
1:10:49
to things like less consumer based, I guess, photography,
1:10:56
it's not like it's not like headshots or event photography
1:10:59
stuff like that. Like talking about landscapes and talking
1:11:02
about your connection to the image and the subject, and you
1:11:07
know what's going on for you. Like is, is a super engaging way
1:11:12
of of presenting the work. And you're talking about, like, you
1:11:18
know, 70 to 80% open rate, and even if it's like 100 or
1:11:22
wherever, many people like this is the I mean, we have mutual
1:11:27
friend Dimitri Mack, who talks about, like, you know, if I was
1:11:32
in a room with 80 people who were all saying, like, Oh, this
1:11:36
is really interesting. Like, how would I feel about that? It's 80
1:11:39
people standing there and saying, like, this is really
1:11:43
okay, you know, like, I'm engaged with this. Like, it's
1:11:46
not like, you know, I think that social media, like, kind of
1:11:49
disconnects us from, sometimes, from the connections that we're
1:11:54
actually making with people and people and how it's impacting
1:11:58
somebody on the other side of it, because we're, it's such a,
1:12:01
I don't know, it mercurial kind of thing that just sort of like
1:12:08
it's all rushing past us, so that when you do stop and look
1:12:13
at something and it affects you, and you decide, I'm going to
1:12:16
sign up for your newsletter. You know, I want to engage with us
1:12:20
more often. It has much more of an impact. It's something that,
1:12:25
like, means so much more to that person. So, like, even when
1:12:27
you're it's, you know, 7080 people. That's like, Man, I
1:12:31
would love to be like, put up a show and have 70 to 80 people
1:12:35
come to it and be like, This is awesome. This is great. I want
1:12:37
to, I want more of this. I want to, I want to be part of this.
1:12:40
Then, then, you know, yeah, I think that's, that's a wonderful
1:12:45
way of presenting your images to people, yeah.
1:12:49
Jake Case: And it's, uh, going back to the how we started the
1:12:52
conversation, you know, instead of having photos where I'm just
1:12:56
promoting tourism or travel, or Yeah, or whatever. This is a way
1:13:02
for me to, you know, promote a deep, deeper thoughts about how,
1:13:10
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1:16:02
Unknown: Hey, now for my favorite part of the show,
1:16:06
what's that? Say? Useless information. This is always
1:16:12
death.
1:16:13
Jake Case: I don't know if I'm ready, but
1:16:14
Casey Fatchett: let's go for it. We'll see if you're ready. Jake,
1:16:16
how much do you think a cloud weighs?
1:16:22
Jake Case: How much does a cloud weigh?
1:16:24
Casey Fatchett: Average, on average,
1:16:26
Jake Case: on average. So it can't weigh anything, because
1:16:34
it's that that floats in the atmosphere, and an OR and weight
1:16:38
is related to to gravity. I don't know if that's right. I
1:16:44
don't think that's right, because Okay, so the clouds
1:16:49
affected. I have a bachelor's degree in geography, and so I
1:16:55
took weather and climate classes and science classes in college.
1:16:58
So let me work through this for a second, because the, because
1:17:02
the cloud is affected by gravity, I guess it has to have
1:17:08
some amount of weight to it, your average cloud. But, okay, I
1:17:14
guess I'm going to stick with with with zero,
1:17:18
Casey Fatchett: you're only off by 1.1 million pounds.
1:17:22
Jake Case: Okay, 1.1 million pounds.
1:17:24
Casey Fatchett: So while they appear light and fluffy, they
1:17:27
are, in fact, quite heavy. But how? How does, what? How do you
1:17:30
know how much a cloud weighs? Well, it's the number is
1:17:33
calculated by taking the water density of a cloud and
1:17:35
multiplying it by its volume. Huge volume, huge, huge, huge
1:17:40
volume spread out over a very large area. The Cloud floats
1:17:48
even at that weight, because the air below it is technically
1:17:51
heavier due to air pressure and your air pressure currents,
1:17:56
which is like it's keeping it it's staying on top of that air
1:18:00
pressure underneath. It's when we have, you know, the heavier
1:18:04
air underneath holds up the cloud.
1:18:08
Jake Case: Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty a cloud is pretty
1:18:10
much like an evaporated Lake,
1:18:12
Casey Fatchett: yeah, it just like, hangs out there because
1:18:17
it's spread out over a huge area. I think it's also that we
1:18:20
don't think about how big clouds really are,
1:18:26
Jake Case: yeah, when, I mean, when you look at a that just
1:18:30
makes me curious, like, what's the criteria for one cloud?
1:18:37
Yeah?
1:18:37
Casey Fatchett: I mean, this is like average cloud. This is just
1:18:40
the information that I have, this is, like an average cloud,
1:18:43
Jake Case: I'm gonna have to go look that up, because that that
1:18:45
is pretty fascinating.
1:18:46
Casey Fatchett: And I mean, you might talk about, like,
1:18:48
different types of clouds might be heavier, other ones might be,
1:18:51
like a cirrus cloud might be is since significantly less weight
1:18:56
than, like, a key meal. And Nimbus cloud, which is, like,
1:18:59
has a lot more density to, like, the water content, right?
1:19:03
Jake Case: And if you have, if you have a, like, a line, like,
1:19:10
out on the Great Plains, like, they get those lines of clouds
1:19:12
where you could have, like a continuous cloud stretching from
1:19:17
Louisiana up into Saskatchewan, yeah, or something, a wall of
1:19:23
cloud, yeah. What like is that? Is that one cloud?
1:19:26
Casey Fatchett: How do you just one cloud? This is like a whole
1:19:29
other question. We gotta get some meteorologists and Jake,
1:19:32
thank you so much for being on the show. Where can people find
1:19:35
you?
1:19:37
Jake Case: I mean, the best place is on threads. I post
1:19:43
there most frequently. Pretty much everything I post on
1:19:47
threads gets posted to my Facebook page, and then I'm I'm
1:19:55
on, of course, I'm on Instagram, but because I. Yeah, the
1:20:00
carousels, you have to, you know, like, make sure
1:20:04
everything's cropped the same exact aspect ratio. I don't post
1:20:09
on Instagram all that much. It's too much of a pain for me. And
1:20:15
then I am on blue sky, but, uh, blue sky needs to up their game.
1:20:21
In my opinion, it's, it's a little, it's a little too busy
1:20:24
for me, and it's a little bit too hard to to get my feed
1:20:30
filled with the content that I actually want to see. I know a
1:20:33
lot of people are, are all in on blue sky, and I'm trying to be
1:20:37
there more. But it's, it's, I find myself gravitating toward
1:20:41
threads and it just works. I see what I want to see. Click clean
1:20:48
interface.
1:20:49
Casey Fatchett: I'm going to include links to your profiles
1:20:52
and those as well as a link to your newsletter in the Episode
1:20:56
Notes. So if people want to find those, they can look at the
1:21:00
notes and get all of that information, Jake, sounds good.
1:21:05
Thank you again. You're more than welcome to come back
1:21:08
whenever you want
1:21:09
Jake Case: sweet Well, I will definitely take you up on that
1:21:13
sometime.
1:21:18
Casey Fatchett: Welcome back. I hope you enjoyed my conversation
1:21:21
with Jake. Case, you can find all of Jake's links in the
1:21:23
Episode Notes, and you should definitely go and follow them,
1:21:26
especially if you like to look at beautiful landscape photos
1:21:29
while you're in the following mood, be sure to subscribe to
1:21:31
the show and follow along with the nerdy photographer on all
1:21:34
the social media platforms. It's at the nerdy photo that's at the
1:21:39
nerdy photo node, dots, underscores or dashes. On
1:21:42
Instagram, blue sky threads, tick tock and Reddit, you don't
1:21:46
want to miss out on all the discussions and shenanigans that
1:21:48
happened between episodes we have arrived. I'm aware. Do we
1:21:53
know what this site was used for? Either a gathering place
1:21:58
for listening to music performances, or a temple to
1:22:00
honor untamed native horses, or both Until next time, everybody
1:22:05
stay safe and stay nerdy