Latest / What You Have Seen and Heard / Rev. Tsvetan Iliev (Bulgaria) Interview

Transcript

Rev. Tsvetan Iliev (Bulgaria) Interview · What You Have Seen and Heard

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, hello again, and welcome back to another episode of What You Have Seen and Heard.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: This time, it's What You Have Seen and Heard across the connection.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've met several folks at General Conference, and I wanted to continue the conversation.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so to that end, our guest for today is the Reverend Svetan Iliev, who is from Bulgaria.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: He was a member of the subcommittee that I had the great privilege to chair
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: at General Conference.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: He also has a marvelous singing voice and sang
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: for us several times throughout General Conference.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so he has graciously agreed to be kind of the first person I sit down
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: with outside of my new conference, outside of my continent.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Svetan, glad to have you here.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Travis,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: glad to really be here and being,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: as you told me,
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: the first person outside of the annual conference that you serve in and also out of
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: the continent.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And one more interesting detail, one of the first to be part of the Global Methodist Church.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't know if you were aware,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: you were aware that Bulgaria and its 23 churches in the annual conference was
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: the first annual conference as a whole,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: starting the Global Methodist Church in general.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I usually am joking, saying that joke, and until it's interesting, I'll do it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: That means that you all joined us.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to ask you,
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: start by asking the same question that I've asked everybody on these things,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: which is just,
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: can you tell us a bit of the story about how it is you became a Christian?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you've been a Christian your whole life,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: can you tell us a story about how you came to take your faith seriously?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, of course.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Bulgaria is an Orthodox country,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: one of the Orthodox countries where the Eastern Orthodoxy is quite strong.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are one of the patriarchs that are
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: in some sense really close geographically to the ecumenical patriarch and in
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: the same time staying a little bit in a distance of him.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because he is trying to do a lot of ecumenism lately.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And for quite a good portion of the Orthodox world, this is not acceptable.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: But enough for this.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up as a nominal Orthodox Christian.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: I knew about God.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I knew about Christ.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And the church, my local church was very close.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the priest never took interest in the teenagers.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: He never get out of the church and said, hey, young boys, come here.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Boys, come.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'll show you the church.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is the icon.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: This is the image of this.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this here is the Holy of Holies in the Orthodox Church.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Never happened like this.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I grew up as a normal teenager in post-communist Bulgaria.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because from 1944 until 1989, Bulgaria was a communist country.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was never part of the Soviet Union,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: but it was sometimes more heavily influenced by some of the USSR countries.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because the Great Empire always wanted influence on the Balkans.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And great powers didn't want Russia there.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a little bit of a play of cat and mouse.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And we were caught in it.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: But in the 90s, that was the time that I was a teenager.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up, basically.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm born in 1984 in a small town.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, relatively small.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was quite big in that time, close to 100,000 people.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up very normal boy.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Without any interest in organized religion.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Until in my 16th year, I lose my father.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: He just suddenly passed away.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I was 16.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was a time when I needed someone to take care of me, someone to teach me how to be a man.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And now I needed to learn all this by myself.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Then some events led to
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: me getting into a Protestant church.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And these events include my best friend,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: who back then wasn't a Christian at all,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: but he met the love of his life and now they are married.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: And she was a Protestant Christian.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: She was an evangelical believer.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And took him to church.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was actually the
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: dream of every Pentecostal, charismatic, neo-charismatic pastor.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: The first visit of church, he is baptized in the Spirit and everything going accordingly.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing happened with me like that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I got the very Methodist way, man.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it was step by step.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Methodically, God was bringing me to his family of the faithful.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when I was 25, I kind of already was...
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Ripe for ministry, for ordained ministry.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: The church that I started visiting ceased to exist and I joined the Methodist church
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: because I didn't knew anything about it and I didn't want to join any other church.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I went there and learned why I was a Methodist this whole time.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, around 18, 19, I became serious with God.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I like to call it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have a similar story in as much as I didn't know anything
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: about John Wesley,
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: but it was always the Methodists who had been reaching out to me to be part of
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: the church.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the more I read Wesley, the more I liked what I was reading.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the more I read some of the other leaders, the less I liked them.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of interesting how God made both you and I Methodists
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: before we had any idea what that meant.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Step by step.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It was very slow,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: very slow move from one point
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: to the point where I can say that really I am
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: a Christian and I am part of the Methodist family and I am a Methodist.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would hope that most folks who end up at General Conference
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: as delegates are pretty committed to being global Methodists one way or the other.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share a bit more about how it is that God called you into the ordained ministry?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, he needed between a couple and three years.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: That was between the first offer by my pastor because when I changed the church And
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: when I moved from the one that ceased to exist to the one that was
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: the Methodist church, the only one I knew was the pastor.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: We met a couple of times, we acquainted each other, we became very good friends.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And since I had some experience in the previous church,
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: which I mentioned,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: He started giving me responsibilities.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: First, he gave me to be the man behind the tech guy.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And moreover, I was a technician in a company that was an internet service provider.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I was acquainted with all of this and I could have done a good job.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So he gave me this responsibility.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: He invited me to sink into the worship band.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Then he gave me to make a reflection, then a sermon, a couple hundred pounds of books.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And after that, he offered me...
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: To think about ordained ministry.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, I don't want to have anything to do with this.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was seeing his life.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I saw the family and how everything is very much structured.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have personal time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: In some sense.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know that there is something called personal time,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: free time and you cherish it much more than anything else.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I was brought to that point where
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of years later,
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: between two and three years later,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: the company I was working for was not in a good shape.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was about to be sold and I didn't want it to be part of the new one.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, well,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: and everything was moving from the point of my denial to that I am ready to accept
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: that offer.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it was three, at least maybe more than three years process.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I was convinced.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's really interesting.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I keep hearing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: So we had an opportunity to visit a bit at General Conference,
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: but we didn't get into some of our biography.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is kind of funny hearing some of your story to hear it resonate
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: with certain aspects of my own.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I was also born in 1984.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: But in this case,
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I had a pastor who invited me to consider the possibility that God was calling me
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: to be a pastor.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I literally laughed in his face.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I don't know what you're thinking, but clearly this is a terrible idea.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not even just that I'm not interested, but it's a terrible idea.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: This will not go well.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it is funny to see.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I've been sharing kind
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: of throughout these things is not everybody I've talked to
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: in this format have been pastors, but many of them have been.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been fascinating to see how many of them spent at least a season
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And part of why I draw attention to that is for anybody
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: who may be watching these things and has also had a very strong feeling,
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: nope, nope, nope, God's not calling me to pastoral ministry, he might be.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if God is doing that,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: it probably would do you well to discern that
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: sooner rather
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: than later.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And don't worry.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: You will come to the point to the time when you will say yes.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if God's really calling you.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And this will be very normal, very logical.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when I turn my back and see it,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can really see that maybe God didn't want me to say yes right away,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: but he wanted me To have that time of discerning,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: of thinking, of seeing really what is ministry.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then to kind of put all my trust in him because I was making good money in my old company.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I got intern,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: become intern,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: because this is time we were Bulgaria before the Global Methodist Church was part of
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: the Central Europe, Central Europe.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry if I got this wrong,
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: but we were part of the Central Conference of Central and Eastern Europe,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: something like that, of the United Methodist Church.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the rules were strict.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you agree,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: you're going to be an intern in a different church with pocket money,
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: which were four times less than what I was making.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And this is not appealing to salary to
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: a young person that's maybe he's single right now,
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: but he still needs to live a life that will be,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: well, not attractive, but at least not pushing away potential young ladies.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: in the end,
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: We want to get married and this is helping,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: but God be blessed that happened and it's amazing.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: so I don't know, I mean,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: this may be an out of the blue kind of question that may be hard to answer,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I'm just curious about what do you see, like what is ministry like in Bulgaria?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have a feeling that statistically most people
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: who are watching this are not only just from America in general,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: but from the upper Midwest in particular.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we have no idea.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I bet that most of us could not find Bulgaria on a map.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: So anything you can tell us about what ministry is like where you live,
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think would be very interesting.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So alongside with the Methodist classes, a little bit of geography classes.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: That would help a lot.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's principally very different from what
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: is church life experienced
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: in the United States.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's much we at least want to emphasize much more on the social
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't mean as a social unit.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: The church is
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: the church because it's the group of people that are called the people of God.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we want to do everything together and we want to do it as close as possible,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: which sometimes for the Western kind of a person could be a little bit pushing back
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: because we don't want to share that much of personal space.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: There is a joke in Bulgaria because families are bigger.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you think about personal space?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the kid said, what is personal space?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, you don't have it, but we like it like that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: We love it like that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to be connected with this.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, there are boundaries within everything.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think...
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: The most we experiencing it right today,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: even in the Bulgarian society, in the church, is in the Methodist classes.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: People are put together different areas of life,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: different ages, and they just learn how to open up to each other.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is good for every single person.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be vulnerable to others.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: We as pastors, if we
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Open up to that many people that could become really dangerous.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: But it's inevitable.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: If we want to do the work of God, we need to be vulnerable and we need to open up to people.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Even if they might have hurt us.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now this is a little bit difficult for,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: much more difficult for my wife than for me because I am just
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit more thick in the
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: thick skinned.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was searching for
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: that word.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: So am I gathering from what you're saying that
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: the Bulgarian Global Methodist Church generally has
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: the Methodist small group class meetings?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are deliberately working from the liberation.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: 1st of May of 2022.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joking,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: of course,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: but we deliberately working on an annual conference level on a church level,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: national church level to incorporate the Methodist And even
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: though those churches are hesitant or they don't know if it will be okay,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: even if they turn it in a little bit different direction
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: than what classical Methodist class means to me,
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: they still experience the benefits of being Part of such small group.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because Travis, we need to agree on something.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: We are just now getting out of a COVID pandemic period.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: We are just now getting out.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And still, we need to learn something that we
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: on purpose stopped because it was...
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Life-saving.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I see it today.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: I see the benefits in all the people that are attending the classes.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And now I don't know if I miss them.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not part of them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not part of the classes, but I can see the people that really take them seriously.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: That they missed them because we stopped them for the summer vacation time
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: and people to be able to plan their own vacations.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see that they are ready to restart them, to enter the new class year.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say it like that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to probe this just a little bit because I think it's interesting.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: So was the class meeting, was that a...
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Get a little bit where I'm going with this.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: In America, at one point, everybody, everybody, everybody was in a class meeting.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then somewhere around 100 years ago.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the Methodism was rising.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: In the moment that it's... Well, right.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's the thing.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a time when people, they didn't really want to do the class meeting.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want everybody else in their own business.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: And for something like 100 years or maybe even a little more than that,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: the American Methodist Church has not been in the habit of being in class meetings.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I know has been a bit And so it's very small.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this is, here is the difference.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sofia is two and a half million.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that the Sophia Church is huge.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's far from that.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that means that...
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Commuting is very much more difficult and traveling because the church is in downtown.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: And even if Sofia has very good public transportation, that doesn't mean that commuting is easy.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you want to,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: when you finish your working hours,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to come to the church,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: that easily could mean Couple more hours coming to the church,
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: having the event and the meeting and go back even three hours.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And not everyone wants to give that time away.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we decided to make the classes on Sundays where when everyone is here,
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: they are already in the church and they are just spending one more hour.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there is one very interesting story.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: A lady who is coming once in a while,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean once in a long while,
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: she expressed real interest in those class meetings because she said,
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: oh, but I cannot come in the week.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, they are happening after the coffee break, after the service.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: At the coffee, they mingle together, share all of the members.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then 12 o'clock, because we finish around 11, 11 something.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: 12 o'clock is the class meeting for an hour.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I am taking my son for a walk.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: My wife is a part of a class.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: She cannot be part of anything else.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I am creating that time for her.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that lady...
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: Could come much more often just to be part of those classes.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, oh, do I need to prepare for something?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, no, because the class meetings are not that kind of a class.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: You are learning, but you're learning by experiencing, let's say it like that.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think the word class,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: is sometimes misleading because we think of it as,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: at least I'm sure it's the same in an educational classroom when it's really
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: the idea of a division.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But of course, I don't know about in Bulgaria, but in America, we are not strong in Latin.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that connection is not always clear to us.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, the Bulgarian language took class as a group of people who are together.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when you are In a classroom, you have a class leader.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost identical to teacher,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: but with a little bit of a different connotation, a different meaning.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a class leader,
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: you have your three questions and you just share your life with the others.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: That helps learning how to trust others and how
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: to savor the trust of the others.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Could you share with those three questions?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have them off the top of your head?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just in case anybody is not familiar.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: They are the basic historical questions for the Methodist classes.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: How is it with your soul?
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: How is your soul with God?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: The second is, did you succeed or failed in something?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to share?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: No pressure at all.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then what do you want to pray for you?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually people will start sharing the successes and the failures.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Not everything is...
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: We don't look at it through pink glass and not everything is all right.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to, you share.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And when you establish that trust with the group, there is a safe space.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And even you receive a pastoral care.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you as a pastor and me as a pastor, we cannot be everywhere with everyone at all times.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: And quite frankly, sometimes we don't want to.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a space where everyone is feeling safe.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They feel safe.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Some members will never share with us what they are going through.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: They'll try to find the answer through some other channels.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's beautiful.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So me highlighting those questions is also part of my ulterior motive,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: which is to try to encourage people around our Global Methodist Church and
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: then specifically the Upper Midwest, that it's the class meeting.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost deceptively simple.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it seems so easy.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really not,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: it's not conceptually difficult because everybody can answer the question,
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: how is your soul with God?
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: They can answer the question, you know, successes or failures and prayer.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like these are, it's on the surface, it doesn't seem like it's doing enough.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And yet over time, it is amazing how it can shape lives.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So for anybody who's watching this,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: who has not been part of a class meeting,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: a small group,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: a Wesleyan small group meeting, um,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: really give that some thought,
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: because that's the direction the Globe Methodist Church is pushing as a whole,
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: and it's good and right to do so.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know that we in America need to make sure we're getting on it,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: because we have neglected it for 100 years, and that's a tough thing.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if the Global Methodist Church will go as far as to make it like Mr.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Wesley did it,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: to be requisite to go to liturgy, to go to church and to partake in the communion.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we are that...
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Purpose driven, let's say it like that.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: But no one will,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: if you give it a chance,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: let's say,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: if you give it 10 shots,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: after that, you will be able to discern if this is good for you or not.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because you said everyone could share how is their soul with God.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It still needs time to share the true condition.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Trust establishing in the group is very vital and that's why I am only
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thinking about adding another member to the class if that class is ready.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not, I am waiting a little bit more or creating another class with another class leader.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, give it a shot.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do it.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: You had a couple of times during our committee meetings where you had to be out
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: with musical rehearsal.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't remember if you were in the room for this particular moment or not.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: But one of our annual conferences had a bunch of petitions to anything
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: that could not be, that was not enforceable.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to kind of remove.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the things was an encouragement to encourage everybody to be part
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: of small groups as part of these class meetings.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the subcommittee who was dealing with that,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: they stood up and said, well, we think these small groups are really important.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: So we don't want to remove this language to encourage people to be part of the small groups.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I made a comment and I said,
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, the problem that they're identifying is not the small groups.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: The problem is it's not enforceable.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: We could make it into alignment with the concern here by requiring them.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what we want to do?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the subcommittee went, well, no, I don't know about that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, okay,
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: you know, then let's just be clear about what we are doing and what we're not doing.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to somebody else who was ready to,
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: in fact, they asked the chair, asked if we wanted to have that conversation.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we had one alternate in the back who says, yes, yes, yes, we want to have that conversation.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody else did.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: So even though we are moving in that direction, we're not there yet.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that the more we can reclaim that, it'll be vital.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but Travis, I think
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: it needs to be
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: something for the willing.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: We want to reclaim something that is very important for our tradition.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: But in the same time,
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: if we enforce it, it will very, very soon be,
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: it will not be appealing to anyone.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, it's presented.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And in time,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think the ones that are left outside of it,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: sorry, They will start wanting to be part of it if they see the result in others.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it needs to be optional and the fruits will just.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's the word?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: The fruits will be.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the proof.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: The fruits will be the proof.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a good thing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure I'm clear about the fact that when I proposed,
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know, is that the conversation we want to have?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And our chair asked if we wanted to have a conversation.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I also did not raise my hand.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I just was trying to point out the fact that I was trying
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: to make it clear what we were and were not doing and what we were ready for
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: or not ready for.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it is one of those things where Methodism being a church.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of simply a movement of renewal within the Church of England,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: changed the dynamic pretty significantly.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because it used to be, you know, like you say, it's other willing.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, nobody had to be a Methodist.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: There was no,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: if you were removed from the Methodist,
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: you weren't removed from the Church, just from this group of people.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's a much heavier reality.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you're removed from the Methodist, you're not removed from Church membership, which is...
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it is somewhat different and more complicated than I was making it out to be.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's worth the consideration of.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know that, so we are at an eight hour time difference, you and I.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're in one of the very few hours of daylight in both places at the same time.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to make sure that we don't run out of time before I ask the other question
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: that I always ask everybody.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that is, I'm curious if you've noticed a sickness in the church.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to be clear about what I mean by that,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: just because I always want to make sure people don't get the wrong idea.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sickness is not something that the solution to sickness is not judgment.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_00: The solution to sickness is diagnosis and treatment and healing.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: So whenever I ask anybody these things,
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: my goal is to get different perspectives on things that are ailing the church
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: that need healing.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if any of these things apply to anybody who's watching, we're not trying to pick on anybody.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to name things that are not yet as they ought to be so
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: that we can be praying for and seeking God's healing in the midst of it.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: So is there any sickness you have seen in the church?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: As a new denomination, less than four years.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: No, a little bit more than four years.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think we need a little bit more time to find...
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: How to say it?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: To give a little bit more time to see if what we experienced
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: at this general conference will take roots and we will experience it at
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: the following.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: speaking as a non-US person,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: the Global Methodist Church is still
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Although it's trying to show that it's not US-centered, it's still US-centered.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a bad thing.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's what it is.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, we are not judging.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's what it is.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was very...
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting for me to see how at the General Conference,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: when the body realized that we will lose the one African Bishop,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: immediately something happened and everyone voted for the African candidate.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is a symptom, but the results will be ready after six years.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: The results will be visible after six years.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: I am convinced that the bishops will do their job.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: God allowed it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe that all of the decisions of the General Conference are part of his
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Forward thinking of his promise,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: but still we need to wait a little bit more because
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: now we might see some symptoms
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And after six years,
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: it will be really visible if the global Methodist church have a sickness or not.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is particularly speaking for the global Methodist church.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: In general, speaking about the church in...
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: In the world, I don't think I can point to one thing or another.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: It would not be fair.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I am happy that the Global Methodist Church,
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: at least coming back to our denomination,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: at least for now is having one certain direction and it's trying to go steadily in
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: that direction.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Very good sign was work on different documents, topics than only one for 50 years.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a very good sign.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know about your personal experience.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a little bit interesting to me.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just a little bit.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: It hasn't been bad, but I've seen a little bit of Monday morning.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: This probably is not an idiom.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say Monday morning quarterbacking,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: which is you're sitting at home,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: the game's over, and now you're criticizing how things went.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen a couple of folks saying, well,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would have liked the articles to say a little more of this or do a little more of
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: that.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: And people aren't being real bad about it.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what it's felt like to me is like if somebody has a profound encounter with God
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: and then they go out and they meet somebody and they say,
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, but have you seen God?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: I understand where you're coming from,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: but if you saw what I saw and you felt what I felt and you heard what I heard,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: you wouldn't say that.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: I found the moment of passing the Articles of Faith in our legislative committee
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: to be a profound moment.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I also then felt the same way on the floor of the plenary
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: when it was passed like with 97 something percent.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a great joy to be part of that process and the deliberation.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that if that is any kind of sign that the Holy Spirit is alive and well
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: and moving in the global Methodist church, there's a lot to rejoice over.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you're somebody who says, well, I wish that it would have been a little bit different.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure I'm bearing witness to the Spirit being tangibly present
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: in those moments, which I think is crucial.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I have one question I'm putting you on the spot for and it's okay,
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: whatever, however you want to answer this.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you were to say, hey, I'm not going to answer that question, that's fine.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that's been interesting in some of the narrative
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: in America recently has been that people,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: especially young people
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: and especially young men are finding themselves They're disproportionately attracted
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: to traditions with deep historical roots.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And specifically,
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: the Eastern Orthodox Church is highlighted as a place where younger men are planning
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: to go.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm asking you as somebody who,
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: as a younger man,
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: left from the Orthodox Church,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: what are your thoughts about that tendency in America or just in the world?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a similar thing going on in Bulgaria or is there something very different?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's very different from Bulgaria because in Bulgaria,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: the Eastern Orthodoxy is the main church.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: It has 80% of the 85% of the Christian population.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, you cannot compare them.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: In the States,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: the Eastern Orthodoxy is minority and it's very exotic.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, young people want to be different.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: They want to be...
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: To be distinct from the others.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: So if this is giving them the distinction, why not?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that the Eastern Orthodoxy doesn't have that mysticism which
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Which could be very interesting.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: But for a society as the Western society, as your society, this will be very, very foreign.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: At least in the beginning, it will be clash of world views.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because, yes, you can hide in that mysticism.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: You can say, yes, I am seeing God working in this and God working in that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: But it is exotic.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I...
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mostly think that it is more for attention drawing.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not judging.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I'm far, far, far be from this.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I graduated in now, just a little bit of a reminder.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: I grew up as a Orthodox,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: nominal Orthodox, but still Orthodox Christian, then become a Protestant.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I studied in both Orthodox universities in Bulgaria.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't come back to the Orthodoxy.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I really think that this is the place where I need to be.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the Wesleyan perspective to life even is being close to the Orthodoxy,
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: just as Mr. Wesley was reading some of the Church Fathers.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't feel the need to be part of this.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am satisfied with where I am.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll make sure I'm clear about my context for why I'm asking that question.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: Given the narrative going on in America,
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: and I have someone who grew up and lives in an Orthodox-majority country,
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to get your perspective on that.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not asking anybody in particular to necessarily agree or disagree
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: with your perspective, but I think it's important to hear.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just one short thing and I'll be done with this topic.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there is one very important thing to be understood historically.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: The Orthodoxy have all the reasons to think it's superior in the very sense of the word.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because according to them,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: because of the filioque problem,
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: the Roman Catholic Church,
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: and in this sense all the Western world, Just is schismatic.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: And they just cut themselves off the vine.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: So this is very important prerequisite for the Orthodoxy.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in some sense, they might be right in their own theology, in their own world.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is really...
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: This is really the way the thing happened,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: because according to Patriarch Photius in the 10th century,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: he said, well,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: they don't want to renounce this heresy, so they are not part of the church anymore.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And back then, the church was one.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: But of course,
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: the real schismatism happened in the 13th century when the crusaders took
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: over Constantinople, the Western, the Roman crusaders.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's all the atrocities there.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, it's a little bit of...
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: A history lesson for another time.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you and your listeners and watchers are interested in this history lesson,
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: I can do it in another time.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or I have a YouTube channel, I can make one short video about it and just share it with you.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: will you make sure to send on the link to your YouTube channel and I will make sure
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: to get it posted when I post this.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Just for anybody,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: so I want to be clear,
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: just because I don't want to assume anybody knows anything in particular,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: he talked about the filioque,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: which is the Latin word for and from the Son,
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_00: and it's referring to in the Nicene Creed,
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: in the statement on the Holy Spirit,
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: it had originally said that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: and then the Latin West added one word,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know, so it says that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and from the Son.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: And they may have had some very good reasons for doing so in their own background,
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: but the Eastern Church has never been happy about it.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: They need to fight Arianism.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: They need to fight Arianism.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they thought that they fought it back this way.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: But this created a
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: completely different problem.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Just to be clear,
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: so anybody who isn't familiar with that history,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: then that one word is really at least the presenting symptom that split the East and
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: the West from each other quite some time ago.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why at General Conference, we are so
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: not afraid, but so cautious adding words.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because this both creates a lot of problems.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like this one.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to press the question about our cultural background one more time here,
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: just in a slightly different direction,
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: and that is,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: so you commented,
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: and you are quite correct,
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: that the Eastern Orthodox Church is going to be foreign and exotic to
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: the American context.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, no question about that.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: My question is, is the Methodist heritage equally foreign and exotic in Bulgaria?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because the Protestantism is a minority in Bulgaria.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: The The whole Protestant population probably is around 3-4,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: not more than 5% of the population of Bulgaria, which is not much.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: The Muslims are more than us, let's say like that.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the Catholics are also on par with the Protestants.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: The good thing with the Methodism is that it is a high church.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: It has the same hierarchy as the Orthodox Church.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: At least we have liturgy, we have communion every single time.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, this is very close to what Orthodox Christians are experiencing.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: But still, it is...
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Considered as a betrayal to your roots if you become a Protestant.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Which for our society is very important.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a difficult place to work.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Even as a Bulgarian.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be sensitive to our time together.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you have obligations coming up.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I was going to ask if you would be willing to close us out in prayer.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, let's pray.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_01: Dear Heavenly Father,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really thankful for my friendship with Travis and that he invited me
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: to do this interview.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Please bless us all, bless everyone who listens, who watches.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if it could help us to grow in our ministry together and
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: in our holiness together, let it be so.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: Give us your peace and be with us always.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: In Jesus Christ we pray.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to give my usual kind of commercial at the end,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: which is I do these kinds of interviews basically based 100% on recommendations.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now some of these folks from across the connection are folks I met
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: at General Conference that I'm following up with.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are from...
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: I used to say, basically, I'd always say this is for the upper Midwest.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have a recommendation for someone to talk to just across
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: the Global Methodist Church,
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: please send me an email at pastortravisatmarcusgrace.com and let me know
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll try to reach out to them.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: So with that said,
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: this has been what you have seen and heard with our special guest,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Reverend Svetan Iliev from Bulgaria.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, Svetan, for being with me.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And for being kind of the first opportunity to extend this beyond the bounds
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: of my new conference.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much and we will see you next time.