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Gender Equality and the ROR: Return On Relationships with Tacko Ndiaye · Authentic Living

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  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
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  Hi, everyone.
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  It's, Roxanne Durgesh.
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  How are you today?
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  So glad you're tuning in yet again.
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  To hang out with me with authentic living with Roxanne.
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  Today, I have this amazing soul, taco, nay, who is, someone that's based out of Rome, and we
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  had the privilege of meeting, at an amazing women's conference where I was exposed to
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  taco's work.
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  And when I heard the kind of work that she was doing in the world, I thought it was so
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  necessary that she come on and have a conversation with us.
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  Taco is an author and an advocate for women's issues.
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  And most recently, I would say she has put out something in the market that she's just
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  released, to help us understand the plight or the stories of women via some of the art in her
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  in her book.
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  So, Taco, thanks so much for coming on today.
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  Thanks, Roxanne.
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  It's a privilege to be here with you today.
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  So, Taco, you know, I'm always amazed, when I see women that take the path to work, in the
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  world with women, but let's start with the book.
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  Tell me tell us a little bit about the book.
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  The book is called women.
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  Tell us a little bit about that book, and then we'll we'll kinda talk a little bit about what
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  brought you to the space with the kind of work you've been doing for years to create this
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  book.
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  That's a very important question, Roxanne, because I've been working on gender equality
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  and women's empowerment for the last 25 years.
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  And When I embarked on this kind of work, I I thought by now, 25 years later, my work would
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  no longer be needed.
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  Because women will be empowered with resources, with education, with opportunities, with an
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  equal voice to sit at the decision making table.
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  So It seems like not only we are not progressing, quickly enough But there are many
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  instances where we are even witnessing, a reversal of gains Whether we are talking about
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  reproductive rights, if we are talking about women's right to own land, of the same quantity
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  of the same quality as men.
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  If you're talking about women's right to be to have education, there's still many countries
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  where, very few girls have access to educational opportunities and to have
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  opportunities to break free from poverty and marginalization and discrimination and abuse
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  and inequalities.
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  So we are not moving fast enough.
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  So, You began wandering after spending 25 years of organizing all these big women's empowerment
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  conferences.
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  Of collecting and analyzing data that tell the story about the extent of gender inequalities
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  of networking with other women of implementing projects and programs for women's empowerment
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  of the ground.
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  After all of that effort, and seeing how much more is needed You want the way the we
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  shouldn't try something different.
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  So a 25.
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  So 25 years later, You thought we would be further along than where we are today and with
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  women's in in, issues internationally.
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  I thought I thought because one of the triggers that that brought me into this kind of work is
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  that About 26 years ago, I was in a small village in Africa.
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  And I was puzzled to see a young lady.
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  Maybe sixteen years old.
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  She was pregnant.
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  She had the baby on her back, and she went to fetch water.
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  So she's been already married for a few years.
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  So they have issues of, child marriage, child pregnancy.
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  And with all the all the issues that can move it.
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  So it really, triggered a lot of not only emotion, but also just this desire to better
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  understand what are the norms, the cultures, the factors that trigger that kind of
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  inequality.
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  So I started talking to the women, and I found out that there were schools but girls were not
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  sent to the schools because they didn't have separate toilets, and the parents didn't want
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  to send their girls to schools where they would be mixed with boys.
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  I saw that they were, you know, maternal health centers, but women wouldn't go there because
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  the staff was male, and the men in the community didn't want their wives to be
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  examined by a male staff.
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  So there were a lot of issues that really made me wonder about the complexity, of the issues
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  because then it meant It's not good enough to just come and put in a school or come and put
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  in a health care center or other infrastructure.
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  The less you engage and you and the cultures, the traditions, the underlying issues, the
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  norms, the behaviors, that fuel again the inequality, then you were not cracking the nut.
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  So, is that in mind, I I decided to dedicate myself to empowering women and girls worldwide
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  and I've worked with different organizations in different regions.
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  And, so this idea of the book is really But how do I use art as a call to action, to touch
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  hearts, to dialogue, to have these conversations.
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  So let's talk about art.
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  Right?
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  Because now Taco, I'm very, very jealous of people like you.
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  That have expressions of art because I can't tell you a story.
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  This is funny, but it's not funny.
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  One of my very best friends in Ike from Trinidad and Tobago and, went to this, you
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  know, all girls private school.
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  I was so bad at art that I made her do my art.
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  And then the teacher found out.
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  And my friend has since gone on and done major art, but that was a funny start.
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  It was twelve years old.
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  My teacher said, Is that your work?
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  And I'm like, of course, it's my work.
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  And then she goes, I don't think so, miss Ramutta.
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  But it's it's standing impression, you know, I always say that most of us have a gift.
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  And, clearly, the pieces of art that I saw in Rome that you displayed when you were speaking
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  It's a profound deep space that you are able to pull out something to express it Right?
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  Like I would say I'm a writer.
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  That's how I express my emotions, but art gets us down into a deeper, deeper level.
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  Almost like music does.
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  So tell me about your process and how do you create these these one of a kind kind of
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  expressions?
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  So the the book and the ad in itself has been the conversation.
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  A conversation with about 8 women worldwide of different age, of different cultural
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  background, whom I just engage in the conversation like we're having today, but it
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  was during the lockdown.
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  So, of course, it was online.
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  So I ask them to reflect on a few very basic questions.
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  The first one being What makes women cry?
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  What makes women happy?
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  And then I got them to express themselves about power dynamics, power relations between women
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  and men.
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  And then I asked them for solutions.
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  I also engage them on how the COVID 19 pandemic has impacted them.
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  And, so based on that, I crafted the book.
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  I had my AdWords, and there's some of the AdWords that were also triggered by the
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  conversations that I was having.
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  And what I found out is that All women are poets.
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  I mean, it's the the the contributions are beautifully written.
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  The women I engaged with, they were very generous in in giving a lot of themselves in
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  their message.
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  A friend of mine, and and she's she's a senior official in an international organization.
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  So this is a woman who is economically empowered and is well placed in the hierarchy
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  of the organization So when she decided to write on female genital mutilation performed on
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  her,
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  Wow.
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  It's deep.
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  Right?
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  And you just wonder, this is an educated woman from a family where both the mother and the
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  father are educated.
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  And yet, she was exposed to violence against women.
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  And I'm insisting on this one because as you know, we are currently now, celebrating this
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  campaign that that that comes in November, every year.
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  It's the 16 days of campaign against gender based violence.
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  It it was launched in November up to, December.
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  And, So the testimonials were deep.
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  Another one is battling with breast cancer.
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  And she's a single mother, and the father of the child doesn't want to have anything to do
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  with it.
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  So to hear her say, you know what?
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  Every day I wake up, I look at my son who is seven years old.
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  And I wonder if one day he will be saying, man, me, and I wouldn't be there for him.
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  And I'm wondering who would take care of of him.
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  So it it was really some of the the contributions made me cry because they were
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  very, they were very deep another friend who has been battling HIV AIDS for 30 years.
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  And she's expressing how it is even impossible to date or to even, you know, to be that you
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  are still stigmatized, and you still have to address multiple inequalities and and
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  discrimination.
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  Of course, we have the usual issues around land rights with women being denied, land, property.
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  And, you know, in many cultures, there is still this idea that The man is the the breadwinner
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  of the family.
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  It's the head of the family.
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  And giving the land to women is losing it to another family because she'll get married and
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  leave the community.
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  So therefore, there's still so many countries where women's right to access or inherit own or
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  needs or transfer land is is very limited.
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  There are so many communities where we still have food tables.
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  I heard last time a friend from Chad was telling me that in in some communities in his
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  country, we will adenite, to eat chicken or eggs.
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  So nutrient dense food because of food.
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  And originally, it's because you know, they were not good health care centers.
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  And, of course, it's a if a woman is pregnant with a big baby, it creates issues But the
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  culture is still there.
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  Although that situation has has changed.
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  So there there is a lot A lot of issues, the marginalization in decision making processes,
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  the denial of the right to education, the heavy workload, that there's still many places where
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  we will have to walk kilometers every day to get a bucket of water or firewood.
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  The issues around violence, the rape, you know, bright kidnapping.
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  There's too many countries where, you know, a woman is abducted, raped, and becomes the bride
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  of that man because then her family rejects her.
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  And, you know, she becomes married to the man and base his children.
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  So they they there's still a lot of issues, and you just wonder What else can I do
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  additionally?
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  How do I amplify the voice and divert find ways of communicating, how do I touch the emotions,
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  the the hat?
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  So so, basically, that's what the the book is about.
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  So you you said that women are poets, and I I think I mean, clearly, these are powerful
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  stories, Daco.
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  Like, you know, in my career path.
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  My path is definitely with women's issues, but I as a psychologist, I took a different path
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  and I, you know, One of my areas of specialties, as when I practiced was, complex
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  PTSD and trauma, right, So, you know, dealing with sexual assault, sexual abuse of, women.
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  Right?
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  And, you know, nothing like humbling, being put to your knees when you you're unfortunately.
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  And I, you know, I was put there to obviously, guide women and help them heal, but very, very
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  powerful, you know, when you hear these stories, you know, because there's a part of
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  you that that says why.
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  Right?
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  And what what what can you do?
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  And all I did was use, you know, what I knew to to help healing, but you're right.
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  It's so important going back to your whole concept of what can we do?
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  And you said that in your book, Women came up with solutions.
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  Let's talk about this.
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  Right?
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  Yes.
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  We are.
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  I think we have made changes.
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  But there is definitely more need to rally so that we as women that are privileged, like you
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  said, in in so many facilities, what are some of the solutions that the women in the book
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  came up with that what are some of the top ones that you thought of or innovative ones that you
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  think might be useful for people to know about.
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  Well, education always, you know, comes on top.
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  One of the contributors actually, shared her life story because, she was explaining that
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  she's from a polygamous family, and her mother would be going to school.
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  But when she got married to father was already polygamous.
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  She made it clear that she absolutely wanted her daughter to be educated.
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  It was a fight, but at the end, she got educated.
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  And now she's a woman leader in her country, and she was praising her mom who although not
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  having had the opportunity to go to school in the stood the importance of education in a
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  girl's empowerment.
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  And for the mom, the most important was for her to be educated, not not married.
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  So education came before her finding, a good husband and which is very unusual in that
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  community.
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  So education comes first, and one of my paintings talks about girls rising, and it's,
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  it's emphasizing the importance of of education.
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  Of course, also in relation to the kind of work that I do, you know, that there are many
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  commitments their many legal frameworks, the laws, the gender provisions in national
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  constitutions.
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  The commitments are there.
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  The issue is the practice because if you have high levels of illiteracy, You mean, it cannot
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  even be the birthday rights.
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  So you can have the system in place, but the the inability to read and to understand what is
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  being said may may not know that those rights are actually there and could be, you know, part
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  of them if they don't even know what it's saying in those bills, like you're saying.
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  Yes.
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  And and there are many communities where you have, you know, the the the first port of call
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  for a woman in a remote community is the informal justice system because it's difficult
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  for her to out to the city.
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  And financially, it is also quite an investment to go to the city and get a lawyer, and she may
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  not even understand all the intricacies of the justice system.
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  So, there are many places where you have this duality between the, you know, the the the the
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  laws, the informal laws in place, the way that communities deal with certain issues, and and
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  the law.
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  Mhmm.
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  So, just to say laws are good, policy documents are good, but we should really make sure that
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  the impact is felt by rural women, you know, in in the small villages.
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  Mhmm.
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  So some of the some of the solutions were also about, this global sisterhood or local
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  sisterhood, the mentoring of women that you know, some women take it upon themselves to
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  mentor other women so that they can, they can also rise up and there's also there was also,
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  proposals around gender parity How do you make sure that we may also, participate in shaping
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  the decisions that will impact their lives?
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  And in the day, you usually have 2 views.
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  Some some feel that, yes, we should we should bring our chair and sit at the table.
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  Some feel that we should carve our own table if you're not in the main table.
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  Let's grab our our own table.
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  And, some things that may be that table is not at all good for us because, we don't want in
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  the mainstream if the mainstream is based on structural inequalities that shape a system
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  that is full of inequality.
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  We don't want you going to sit there.
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  This was such a great interview that we decided to turn it into a 2 part series.
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  Be sure to tune in next week for part 2 so you don't miss out on the amazing content.
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  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
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  healthy change.
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  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
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  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
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  We'll see you next time.
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  Unauthentic living with Roxanne.