Latest / Citizen Frame / Dead Man's Shoes

Transcript

Dead Man's Shoes · Citizen Frame

0:00
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Citizen Frame.
0:04
We are here to continue our gritty British drama, as Trevor likes to call it. Best of British.
0:13
Best of British, well there's a lot better British films. Well, it's all subjective.
0:18
Than the ones we're talking about. These are some of the best, that's what I mean.
0:24
Oh, good, I thought you meant Wicked Man would be in there, because that was a piece of shit.
0:27
Bullshit, it's a classic Classic piece of shit Nonsense, but no,
0:32
no, this is more You know, obviously there are plenty of Other classic parodic
0:37
films out there But these are just a little taster Of some of them,
0:40
Yeah, that's fair enough Oh yeah, we're going to be doing Dead Man's Shoes today
0:44
And then we're going to take a little breather Get some sanity,
0:47
and then I will pepper one in And just let you know, the world is a happy place,
0:51
And then we'll end with one of Other Trevor's violent Island picks.
0:56
Yes. German picks with the long Good Friday.
0:59
Yes. It's a very young Helen Mirren and God rest her soul, Bob Hoskins.
1:04
All right. We're back here. So we're going to talk Dead Man's Shoes.
1:09
It's a 2004 film directed by a man called Shane Meadows.
1:12
He is not a household name in the business, well, worldwide,
1:16
but over in England he is, or the UK in general.
1:20
He is known for a very popular series called This is England,
1:23
which is a extremely popular series
1:27
yes i don't know if it's still being produced no no
1:30
they they wrapped it up a few years ago with this
1:33
is england 1990 and it featured a very i mean it's quite a harrowing and brutal
1:40
series anyway and sort of gritty but it finishes with a very sort of let's just
1:46
say powerful and harrowing resolution for the character of combo.
1:53
Brilliant brilliant brilliant writing you know
1:56
superb writing but also at the same time harrowing and pretty bloody depressing
2:01
you know yeah like most of your average movie picks yes pretty much yeah all
2:07
right yeah so this is kind of a love letter a love letter but a a very close and.
2:17
I can't think of the word. Why am I not thinking of the word?
2:19
Probably because it's Sunday morning. Yeah. Homage?
2:23
No, it's a very close piece of work between Shane Meadows and Patty Constantine.
2:32
Yes, collaboration. Constantine. Is it Constantine?
2:35
Bible column, Patty Constantine. Constantine. Patty Constantine.
2:38
They both wrote and produced this.
2:40
And then, obviously, Shane Meadows directed it. They worked a few times together.
2:43
So there's obviously a good relationship, working relationship there.
2:47
I'm actually surprised he didn't kind of go outside, go outside the box more,
2:52
maybe go more mainstream, kind of like what Scorsese did, because he's got a
2:56
Scorsese kind of yield to him or even a Sam Peckinpah kind of feel. Yeah.
3:01
And where, you know, he just pulls no punches.
3:06
Yes. There's also, yeah.
3:09
No, go ahead. No, no. So I was going to say there's, with the Shane Meadows
3:12
films, they're all sort of set in sort of, you know, gritty estates in the Midlands.
3:17
So there's a certain sort of semi-autobiographical aspect to them.
3:22
So, but yes, I know what you mean.
3:24
So, yeah, well, I mean, it's got a, I mean, I know it's a different environment,
3:29
but it's got a very taxi driver feel to it. Mean streets feel to it.
3:34
Which again, it's going back to the 70s. That's the U.S. kind of version of
3:39
what Shane Meadows is doing.
3:42
Going back to that 70s gritty. Now, when we say gritty, gritty violence isn't
3:48
necessarily violence as we know.
3:51
There's different tones. There's gore.
3:53
There's senseless violence. There's gun shooting violence. There's all different forms of violence.
4:00
Gritty isn't necessarily seeing. It's not bloody and guts and all that.
4:06
It's mainly just real yeah exactly
4:09
it's to do with the tone but also gritty
4:12
especially in terms of films like this you know the
4:15
whole sort of kitchen sink you know british drama which were
4:18
big in the 60s as well but gritty can
4:21
also mean you know set in a work class area a working class
4:24
turn in the north of england or in this case the midlands can
4:27
also just you know to do with
4:30
the dialogue of the characters and stuff you know yeah well
4:33
yeah it doesn't i mean yeah it
4:37
doesn't have to be in the midlands though it could be a perfect example warriors
4:40
new york set in new york yeah in the underbelly of new york so yeah so location
4:46
even whether it's outside the countryside to a major city but it's it's it's
4:53
the yeah i think it's the tone of the film and gritty came came really in the 70s with movies.
4:59
Well, it started in late 60s with Bullet, and then he got like Dirty Harry,
5:04
and then he got French Connection.
5:06
Yes. Then you've got The Warriors, the Sam Peckapaw movement.
5:09
You've got all this stuff.
5:11
Straw Dogs would be a perfect example. Yeah.
5:14
I would say as well, even going back further, you would have had those Italian
5:19
and neo-realism films, you know, like Bicycle Thief and stuff like that.
5:24
This is, in a way, Dead Man's Shoes is a neo-realism film too.
5:29
It's almost, in a way, documentary style.
5:31
You know, you have things like, you know, whenever all those sort of thugs or
5:35
those drug dealers or scumbags are like, they're talking over each other and stuff.
5:39
And that's not the professional way for
5:42
you know for like you know professional film or whatever but it's a
5:46
certain style and it works here where they're like
5:49
you know their lines of dialogue overlap and stuff and they're talking
5:52
over each other but it's the way real people do in the real world kind of like
5:55
this podcast yes exactly the way people do in the real world well i mean i mentioned
6:02
that that level of realism where meadows kind of does that but again scorsese
6:08
does that all the time, especially when he's had...
6:11
Goodfellas and Casino, when you have all these mob guys inside just having a
6:15
big Italian dinner and they're just all over talking.
6:19
But you're still mesmerized. Even though you kind of don't know what they're
6:23
saying, you're just looking for key words. Yes.
6:25
It adds to the realism of it. Yeah. It drags you into their world.
6:30
Well, let's jump into it and see if it is. This is a very beloved film. I know it did.
6:35
It's got an audience in the States because that's where I saw it.
6:38
I saw it in the independent cinema on Lake Street, and I totally forgot what it's called.
6:46
But Uptown Theater, I think it was called or something. I can't remember now.
6:50
But it definitely has its audience in the U.S. But not as big as it would be as it is over here.
6:58
All right. So we've got Patty Constantine, Gary Strach, Toby Kebbell,
7:02
his first movie. I actually like Toby Kebbell a lot.
7:05
Stuart Wolfhinden and Neil Bell. These guys are all playing.
7:09
Richard, Sony, Anthony, Herbie, Saz, Tuff, Big Al, Marie, Mark, Patty, and Gypsy John.
7:15
Those are pretty much your characters.
7:19
And they're pretty much all not going to end up well. So it's pretty much It's
7:24
a simple, very simple story But Yvette, he comes back He's obviously dealing
7:29
some post-traumatic stress Himself,
7:30
obviously Where he finds out that his brother Has been pretty much brutalized
7:36
And humiliated By a group of little,
7:40
Bullies, really bullies They're not these bad asses As they think they are,
7:45
and we'll come to that They're scumbags And he decides and the brother's already mentally ill,
7:54
mentally challenged, and so he decides it's time to get revenge.
7:59
The opening sequence is quite nice. They have this folk music,
8:06
unlike when we got a shithole fucking wicker man.
8:10
This has good, solid, beautiful Irish, not Irish, whatever, it's...
8:16
Almost. Almost. Celtics, almost.
8:20
Folk music playing in the background. And all it is is two brothers walking the countryside.
8:26
And it's just as the credits roll. And it's a nice little, A,
8:31
kind of this calmness before the storm.
8:35
And then obviously as they walk through the fields and through the hills,
8:40
and they walk into this small town where he's about to unleash his wrath.
8:47
Yes, his vengeance and fury Yeah, you So it's broken down by days Which I like,
8:54
because I like my time stamps.
8:56
Yeah, well It's like chapters So I got day one And there's a great line Where he says,
9:06
It's just a voiceover So right now Richard is narrating But it's not like he
9:12
narrates the film or anything It's just one line,
9:14
pretty much he says Yes Yes, he has to get revenge because he has the line,
9:20
God will forgive them and allow them to heaven.
9:25
I can't live with that. Oh, yeah. Just sets it up.
9:30
That's all you need. Yeah. And that goes down to the writing and the execution
9:34
of when to drop that line in.
9:37
And it's pretty much the opening line of the film.
9:41
So simplistic and short, but it's so powerful at the same time and sets it up.
9:45
And what also works for the film is its direction as it cuts away to flashbacks.
9:55
And the flashbacks are done in a grainy camcorder kind of feel to it.
9:59
And it's black and white. Black and white. And to let you know,
10:03
they're establishing the events that took place when Anthony was abused.
10:08
They filled him with drugs, had him get laid. That scene's so dreadful to watch per guy.
10:15
Yeah but there's also the heavy suggestion that they
10:19
well Sonny anyway was sexually abused yes in the kitchen yeah yes yes physically
10:27
abused him he had some terrible punch yeah I mean we won't go through all the
10:30
flashbacks we'll hold the last flashback for the end but that's pretty much
10:35
how the film goes and cuts back.
10:39
So, he kind of comes into town and he starts by taunting them.
10:45
Pretty much with Herbie as the one who taunts first in the pool hall.
10:49
Yeah. And Patty just gives this glare. It reminds me of the clown in the Terrifier.
10:54
Has this scene in the Terrifier where he just stares at this girl in the diner.
10:58
And it's fucking terrifying.
10:59
And obviously, this clown's got makeup and all. So, it helps it be more creepy.
11:05
Yes. But this guy, Patty sells it by just staring at him.
11:09
And then, yeah, and then when he does, Herbie's all badass.
11:14
See, the funny thing about the film is these guys are just punks. All right?
11:19
They're not like you get, you know, Scorsese kind of gangsters, you know?
11:23
They think they're badasses, but they're not badasses.
11:27
They're just bullies who have it easy in a small town where no one's really
11:32
going to fuck with them because they just don't have time for it.
11:35
And in fact, Richard even says, it's basically, he's talking to his brother, Anthony.
11:43
He says, do you know why they give drugs to children?
11:47
It's good because they're weak-minded themselves. And that's what these guys
11:50
are. They're weak-minded fools. They're pathetic.
11:53
So they are. But at the same time, they've done horrible things.
11:57
They're scumbags as well.
11:58
Yeah, they're scumbags. and but
12:02
when they're finally challenged they're fucked because
12:05
they yeah they're just fucking last they're
12:08
losers they're pathetic and that's pretty much what what the film kind of shows
12:13
especially with Sonny because you think Sonny's the badass of the group but
12:17
all we saw him was pick on his his team were a bunch of idiots themselves and
12:22
pick on yes a kid who's mentally challenged yeah he's a real hero yep,
12:27
just a brother yeah thug yeah oh by
12:31
the way i would say as well just as a bit of sort of a bit
12:34
of a throwaway fact sonny is played by a professional
12:37
boxer gary stretch who's actually very good on it you know for a non-actor yeah
12:42
it's a good role for him if that's if that's true about him i didn't know that
12:45
it's he's not an actor i mean he plays it well because you mentioned he's he's
12:51
there's homosexual sexual tendencies there as well and repressed.
12:56
It's kind of a role that you've got to kind of mix it up a little bit and play
13:00
different kind of characters in this sort of.
13:03
Exactly, there's layers to it. Yeah, so for him to do that just out of the box,
13:06
it's not as good as Conor McGregor in Roadhouse.
13:11
I haven't seen it yet, but I've heard about it. That's pretty good.
13:14
I think we should do the Roadhouse films, all three. There's actually three people.
13:18
Roadhouse retrospective. That would take 10 minutes, but what the hell.
13:24
Then we'll have Conor McGregor coming after us.
13:29
For Conor Yeah I could pay it well So, a couple of things I don't care,
13:37
How does he know who or what happened to his brother?
13:42
Well, yes, I was thinking about this as well. And some people have said that
13:47
it's a massive plot hole.
13:48
I would imagine that he would have heard rumors.
13:52
He would have, people would have said he knew, he would have known that Anthony
13:56
was hanging about with those guys.
13:57
He wouldn't have known exact specifics, but he would have, he would have been well in the know.
14:03
He was a smart guy, you know what I mean, Richard? so but he
14:06
would have done his he would have done his recce and he would have done his
14:09
detective work possibly with you know the
14:12
young girl the woman young woman who
14:15
is in the flashback scenes and we'll see her briefly in the present day scenes
14:19
he would have questioned people and found out he's he was yeah that that's the
14:24
way it is in my head anyway but some people have accused it of being a massive
14:28
plot hole or did he know exactly well he would have known for obviously he would
14:32
have known Anthony died.
14:33
Yeah, but that's it. But then he would have investigated. I know, I know.
14:37
But no, he would have investigated. You know, it is something they could have,
14:40
as they say in the business, one mind fix could have fixed that.
14:44
He could have. Yeah. I know what you're saying. All you needed was a scene where
14:47
he sat down with somebody.
14:49
You don't have to see his face. And he pays him. And he goes,
14:53
thanks for the info. That's all we needed. Yeah.
14:57
Something. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. You needed that.
14:59
Because it's a smart little film and it's and its execution.
15:05
So it does, it did bother me a bit. But yeah, again, it's just a revenge thriller.
15:13
Or is it? You guys haven't seen Dead Man's Shoes. There is a nice little twist
15:18
in this film that I forgot about.
15:20
So just to let you know, if you listen to us and you don't remember the film
15:25
that much. There's a massive spoiler coming.
15:27
Yeah, there's a big spoiler coming. So, ah, fuck. I'll just keep Keep us down. Give a shit.
15:32
All right, but I do like his style and how he works.
15:37
So he's got this fucking creepy-ass gas mask. It's right there.
15:40
You almost turn into a slasher film.
15:43
And when Herbie's coming down the stairs, he's just staring at him through the doorway.
15:48
And so Herbie pats and gets all his mates, all the gang to come down.
15:54
He's down here, someone with a gas mask.
15:57
So they come down, and he has
16:00
a tendency to distract so what
16:03
he does is he lures them out of a location
16:06
so he can go in and do some damage to
16:09
theirs so he he he does this a
16:12
couple of times including with mark's kids yeah so he he goes in and he writes
16:18
why does he put cheyenne stoking check yes it's a it's a phrase that was put
16:25
It used to be put on patients in hospitals, beds, who were very ill.
16:30
And it basically means death is imminent.
16:33
Death is coming. It's a breathing pattern that leads to death.
16:38
If you have this breathing pattern, you're dying. Or something.
16:42
Yeah. It's on the way. Yes. Especially with Luke. Yeah. He also steals their
16:47
drugs. He takes everything from them.
16:49
Which we'll come back to later. He only gets them all high.
16:52
That was Oh yeah
16:55
that's fucking amazing So that's actually quite terrifying It is It's got It
17:01
has the horror because of the mask Little things like that but It also has It
17:07
also has a A reverse Version,
17:14
This is going to sound like weird of a clockwork orange Where It's not about
17:19
the baddies it's about the goodies But the goody is acting like the baddies, but he's doing it.
17:24
But you're rooting for him. If that makes any sense. Yeah.
17:28
The scene is making it feel uneasy. And the scene where he ODs,
17:34
not ODs, but he caused them to get ultimately high and he executes them in that scene is,
17:41
it felt like the scene in Clockwork Orange when they go to that rich man's manor and they rape the wife.
17:48
Yes, I know what you mean. Even though they're the baddies, It makes you uncomfortable.
17:52
Even though he's the goody, I was a little uncomfortable with it.
17:55
Because it was gritty and real well i mean at
17:58
the very end then as well in that final scene
18:01
with you know the guy mark then you realize well
18:05
richard then talks look well i don't want to yeah we'll
18:08
get to it don't jump ahead richard don't mark yeah don't jump ahead too much
18:11
mark's not in the picture yet yes although if you watch very closely in the
18:16
early flashback scenes you catch glimpses of mark oh we know he's there yes
18:21
we know mark's coming up there's another plot Butthole coming up,
18:25
and we'll talk about that one. That's with Mark.
18:29
Yeah, it's got a lot of uncomfortableness to it, a rawness to it. Yes.
18:36
But at the same time, like Scorsese, Meadows will pepper in some humor,
18:43
just to let you know. Oh, absolutely.
18:45
I'm sorry, the car thing is the funniest thing. It's like a clown car,
18:48
guys. You've seen this film.
18:49
I mean, and each time they're picking some of the bullies up,
18:52
they're getting crammed in it's like the flintstones yeah
18:55
yeah but also i would say as well whatever
18:58
he he has spray painted them you know as clowns or some of them but the guy
19:03
you know the guy with the the skinhead who has you know and they're all playing
19:08
with each other at first but he's got the knob written on the back of his head
19:12
the fucking 500 quid this jacket cost But he still wears it.
19:17
Yeah, it was Gypsy, John, and Big Al.
19:21
Or I think Sonny and Sonny was obviously. Yeah, he ended up they were so passed
19:27
out that he ended up painting their faces and they didn't realize it when they
19:30
answered the door with the idiots. Basically turn makeup on.
19:35
Then you have another flashback again. We won't go through the flashbacks because
19:38
we kind of told you what they did to him. But yeah, you see the Sonny scene.
19:42
It's where where Sonny kind of asks for a blowjob from Anthony.
19:48
Yeah. And he guts punts him.
19:52
And it's almost with that as well, it's almost like Sonny is revulsed with himself,
19:59
but he's taking it out on Anthony, his anger.
20:01
Just because Anthony is weak and so easy to basically bully and hit.
20:08
It's disturbing to watch. It's a tough watch at times, this. There's a when finally,
20:16
Richard confronts Sonny for the first time. Brilliant. Brilliant scene.
20:21
And he goes up to him and he goes, listen, you leave now and don't look back
20:26
or you're over. That's all he says to him. You're over. Yeah.
20:30
And he goes, I was literally right next to you.
20:34
And I could have cut your leg right off or your dick right off.
20:36
I can't remember what he says. His throat.
20:38
Yeah. I could have cut your throat right there. Yeah. I mean,
20:41
he just pretty much lays it out for him.
20:44
Yeah. But Sonny is so fucking arrogant and he thinks he's a badass that he's not.
20:49
He's just going to, you know, fight back. I love whenever Sonny gets out of
20:55
the car and he's like, he starts off.
20:58
He goes, you know, some of the guys said that straight away.
21:00
Richard just butts in and goes, it was me.
21:03
Yeah. He goes, you're right there. You know, in the palm of his hand,
21:08
you're right fucking there.
21:10
You know, and you can see that the rage of Richard, you know,
21:13
It's just brilliantly acted by Considine.
21:18
Yeah, you know, he just wants to go all fucking gung-ho on them right there.
21:22
Yeah. But he's got to have patience.
21:24
Yeah. And that's where he killed Gypsy Jones. I believe it's Gypsy Jones,
21:27
the one he kills, that they find in the bathroom.
21:30
Yes, yes. With the axe? Yeah. Yeah.
21:34
We don't see it, but we just see the aftermath. We see the aftermath.
21:38
Yeah, we don't need to see it. Uh-huh.
21:41
Yeah. Yeah, Gypsy John's the other one though, I forget the name of that character,
21:46
you know, the first one that's bumped off, I think, I could be wrong here but
21:49
I think Gypsy John's the guy that runs away and ends up in a suitcase,
21:54
let's just say. No, that's tough.
21:56
Yes, sorry, you're right. I dipped it at his Gypsy John there, yeah, you're right.
22:00
Big L gets shot when he's going to bring the money, he's just going to bring them out.
22:06
Now there's a scene, there's a weird scene and you might be able to explain
22:09
this. when the when they find their buddy in the bathroom all bloody and dead
22:15
and shit yes Sonny cries yes.
22:20
So it was weird because here's this guy who's been introduced as his pretty
22:24
much pig and the big intimidator, supposedly.
22:28
Yeah. And he cries.
22:30
And I'm thinking, I think that why?
22:33
I think it's because they were just, he, those two guys were very close.
22:38
And I think that it's a combination of things.
22:41
It's also connected to the scene that just happened before it,
22:46
where Richard basically completely sags him out and
22:49
puts his shits up up and so i think there's a lot going on i think it's it's
22:53
a rare showing of emotion and
22:56
how he's feeling and there's a lot going on in terms of emotion in
22:59
terms of fear you know he i think
23:02
inside deep down he's terrified sonny is
23:06
just a very weak man you know in so many respects but he puts on this bravado
23:14
which comes across which basically manifests itself as being a a complete asshole
23:19
and thug, essentially, and bully.
23:23
But I think this is just a raw glimpse of, basically, he is terrified,
23:29
but also I think he was quite close to Gypsy John as well. I think he just knows he's fucked.
23:35
Yeah, that's what I mean. I think there's luck going on, but I think that's
23:39
certainly one of the factors.
23:41
And then we go back to kind of the comedy aspect during a horrible scene,
23:44
not a horrible scene, it's kind of a funny scene, when they make Big Al walk
23:48
over to Anthony's, not Anthony,
23:51
where Richard's staying to give him money, but it's to lure him out,
23:55
and then Sonny was going to shoot him.
23:57
But then Sonny ends up blowing Big Al's head, and then everyone starts yelling at him, you shot Big Al.
24:05
I mean these guys there's a very there's
24:08
a very reservoir dogs feel these kind of
24:11
guys is a little bit oh yeah they're not you know yeah that's
24:14
my dogs are not fuck-ups but this one just yeah just
24:17
the the the way they talk to each other there's a very dogs feel realistic yeah
24:23
it goes back to the new realism again and then your mind alan alan he's called
24:27
the best fool name are you all right his hand's blown off you shut up you twat
24:33
you shut him dead you twat.
24:36
They're just complete useless losers you know idiots way out of their depth
24:41
against the professional soldier then after Sonny actually kills Big Al tough quote he's,
24:49
panicking he goes I'm leaving I'm not staying around but he's the one who has
24:53
the car so they're at the gas station he goes I'm done it sounds like Like,
24:57
you leave, you better not come back. He goes, I don't plan on coming back.
25:00
And then the next scene, Herbie, Sonny, and Sal have to walk back.
25:05
Because Tuff is the one who owns the car. That's right, yeah.
25:10
But he winds up in a suitcase. He doesn't get too far. So he does.
25:14
So yeah, so he gets, this is the scene we were talking about,
25:17
where he gets them high with the drugs he stole.
25:21
Yes, their own drugs. And he pretty much takes them out pretty disturbingly, one by one.
25:27
And first, actually taking out Sonny, which you figured he'd be the last.
25:31
And I love that because it adds to the realism where it's a case of it's not
25:37
like a big final showdown with the big bad guy.
25:40
He gets Sonny first, just drags him. There's no big fight. There's no big struggle.
25:45
Drags him into the game, the brutal realism. Drags him into the kitchen.
25:49
And puts a plastic fucking carrier bag around his head so he doesn't get covered
25:53
in blood himself and then just pulls out a fucking piece and shoots him dead.
25:57
But again, played up. Execution. I mean, the reason he was getting them high
26:02
was A, so they couldn't fight back.
26:04
But I don't think it's because he couldn't handle them. I think he did that
26:08
to make them defenseless like his brother was.
26:11
Yes, because his brother, it was to torment them. Yeah. Because they spiked his brother.
26:16
Yeah. Yeah, and while his brother was already mentally challenged in the first place.
26:21
They forced him to take acid. So then you add that to it.
26:26
So that's what he was really doing. Not because he could have gone there and just kicked their ass.
26:30
But even before the brutalization of killing Sonny and these guys,
26:34
there's a funny-ass scene where they're all in the toilet, and he's taking a dump.
26:40
He's throwing up because he's given them, obviously, laxatives of some sort as well.
26:46
Oh my god the whole the whole the whole scene is quite
26:48
quite funny and then you turn the tables on us yeah
26:52
oh yeah after basically what he spiked
26:56
them with um all sorts but including acid but you can see them and they don't
27:00
quite realize at first what's going on but you can see them because they're
27:03
all completely wiped out and they're doing weights and they're then you see
27:07
them cleaning the kitchen and stuff which is actually very funny and your man's
27:10
talking shit about pot noodles or or you could just use because they're all
27:13
talking dead fast because Because they're off their loaf spiked.
27:15
And he's talking about pot noodle containers.
27:17
You can just use them as cups and all this here. Then they're all up in the
27:21
bathroom. Because they're all terrified of being alone. Because of Richard.
27:25
So they're all up in the bathroom together. Sonny's taking a bath. Tank's taking a shit.
27:30
And the other man goes, I can smell it from here.
27:34
Just, yeah, just really well played. Yeah.
27:38
And then once he takes out, he kills Saw by putting his nose into his brain.
27:46
That's how he kills him. And then Herbie's... I love the lead up to that actually,
27:50
where it's basically, basically, he thinks, Saw thinks, he's all, are you the devil?
27:57
I mean, we'll get to that later on, but there's a lot of sort of biblical references here throughout.
28:02
It's almost like a biblical revenge story.
28:04
But yes, sorry, go ahead. So you got Herbie, the one he's kind of been teasing the whole time.
28:10
Yes. Who you thought, I thought, he would let go.
28:13
But you kind of knew, but when he makes him open the suitcase and you see Tuff
28:16
all piled up in the suitcase, that's a fucking creepy scene. Yes.
28:20
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Good model there. Get back to the horror.
28:25
Exactly. You know, the exaggeration, the overkill, I guess, to pardon the pun.
28:33
Yes. And he wants to let him go.
28:36
And Herbie, I don't know his whole journey, but I thought he let him go.
28:42
But he hugs him and then gives him, obviously, a knife into the heart, I think.
28:50
As india said anyway it's a killer blow no
28:53
matter what but you know i would say the guy
28:56
who plays herbie is actually a really good actor you know
28:59
he totally sails that and especially in those he becomes like
29:02
a pathetic little boy you know you know whenever richard has him sort of there
29:06
at the end and he really does sell it you know but at first you know at the
29:10
start he's jackal the lad and he's selling the drugs in the bar and i think
29:14
he's one of those apart from obviously Christy Considine and Toby Kebbell and
29:18
even, you know, Gary Stretch.
29:20
I think he's certainly one of the best actors in it. Well, we talked about.
29:25
The luring out. He does this when he goes to Mark's home, who's outside.
29:31
Well, first of all, he gets, first of all, that's like an alert twist where
29:35
you find out there was another guy there that he gets out of Herbie.
29:39
I knew there was another guy coming. I don't know what the twist was on this one.
29:43
I can't remember. I can't remember. I didn't see it as a twist though.
29:47
I think he asked. Right. No, yeah. He asked, where is he?
29:51
I don't think he asked. He knew. He wanted to know where he was.
29:54
Was, and then he's, that's just location.
29:56
I wanted to work that out. Not that he was, we all knew Mark was there,
30:00
but we just don't know where he lives.
30:02
So when I don't, okay, so he gives the kids, Mark's kids, his son,
30:09
the mask, the gas mask he's been haunting the other guys with,
30:13
and to get the father, Mark, out of the house, and they go look in the park
30:18
for this guy who gave them his mask, which is obviously clearly Richard.
30:21
So Richard then walks to the house, knocks on the door and talks to his wife
30:24
for a bit. Just a basic conversation. Nothing else.
30:28
And for some reason, this conversation changes Richard, and I don't understand why.
30:36
And this is where...
30:38
I will tell you. Yeah, so he leaves the house, and Mark ends up telling the
30:46
wife the story of who this man is and why he's here.
30:50
Yes. It's a nice scene, actually. He doesn't go through the hole.
30:53
This is where you find out, and plot twist, people, that they left him at an
31:00
abandoned farm somewhere.
31:03
Abandoned church? He ended up hanging himself.
31:06
Mark wanted to go back, let him out, because he knew. He didn't do much, but he was still there.
31:13
Yes. He was still an accomplice, whether he did nothing or not.
31:18
He didn't do anything to stop it.
31:19
That was the problem. that was his guilt yeah and
31:22
the great thing about this i had in my nose
31:25
i didn't want to bring it up right away because people might have
31:28
not seen the film yet but i always thought you have how shayman was directed
31:34
it was we had a these gritty black and white flashbacks of what what's happening
31:39
anthony as the film goes on then you had some comic relief you know with the
31:44
car and the bumbling idiots that they are,
31:47
to tone down the violence, I guess you can say. And then you have these nice little.
31:53
Conversations between anthony and richard whether it's
31:57
them sitting in they're sitting in some kind of shed or something they're
32:00
just talking and this is where they really knew
32:03
that anthony was you know now the right five right right
32:06
frame of mind he's mentally challenged a bit yes and you
32:09
really like the the brother dynamic i was getting into
32:12
this i was like wow this you know it kind of took you out
32:15
takes away out of the brutality of what we're watching and
32:18
you see you can kind of understand why richard is defending
32:22
his his little brother like this and because
32:25
you really like their bond i had no clue
32:28
and i seen this before and i also
32:32
i must have forgot don't know how i forgot but the
32:34
twist is he's not really there because we
32:37
find out that that the perk kid hung himself
32:40
where they left him there and yeah
32:44
so he's never that's that's such a tough scene
32:47
it is watch you know that flashback because they're
32:50
tormenting the poor child what he is he certainly has
32:53
the the mind of a child and it's such a tough
32:55
scene to watch where they're where they're filled and full of acid then they're
32:59
saying we're going to take you to the devil's house the kid freaks out they
33:02
beat him up they put him on a leash they tie a rope around his neck put him
33:06
on leash they're spitting on him all sorts tormenting the poor child it's it's
33:10
a brutal scene to watch and then Then, on top of that, because he is so freaked out,
33:14
he kills himself. He hangs himself.
33:18
Brutal. That's such a powerful twist. Yeah, six cents.
33:24
Yeah, yeah. He's a ghost. There's the horror element.
33:29
So he brings Mark. He pretty much kidnaps Mark, and he tells him,
33:32
you're coming with me. And he brings him to a place where he obviously hung himself.
33:37
Yeah. Why did he kill Mark?
33:40
Because whenever he goes to mark's house and he's talking to his
33:43
wife and he's going you're a good mother he realizes i
33:46
mean he richard says this he basically realizes
33:50
that this guy mark is not as bad as the others and in fact he's really got his
33:55
life together he's not he's not a scumbag you know what i mean i see i'm still
34:00
not sold on that i thought that too yeah because he makes he gives him the knife
34:04
he wants him to end this and by killing him he says i'm the monster no he goes No, he doesn't.
34:09
He says, you're supposed to be the monster.
34:12
Yeah, but it's me, is what he says. But I am the beast. Yeah.
34:15
Yeah. So how does he know he didn't do anything?
34:19
Well, you know, that's my point. You can't fix that with just like, oh, he's got a kid.
34:26
I think it is a plot hole. It's a pretty big plot hole. I mean, I still go with it.
34:30
But given this fun journey and disturbing journey, and they give us one hell
34:36
of a twist, and then you're okay.
34:39
It could be explained that maybe Richard has been filled in and he's been talking
34:45
to someone during his investigations,
34:47
which i'm presuming he did we'll never see any of this on
34:50
the screen but someone filled him in and said you
34:52
know they'd heard that basically mark didn't really
34:55
do anything although mark does admit mark does
34:58
mark mark does admit mark does say you
35:02
know when richard said to him what did you do he goes
35:05
we he goes no i said what did you do and then
35:08
he says i i didn't stop it that's
35:11
that's what it was and so you could say maybe that
35:14
then richard believes him but you
35:18
know it's a bit yeah it's a bit confused but
35:22
basically see this film this film this
35:24
whole journey this film and you know realize it essentially although
35:28
it takes you maybe a few times to a couple of times
35:30
at least to realize it this film is about
35:34
richard's guilt because richard was embarrassed
35:38
about about Anthony whenever he
35:41
was alive he's seen him as an embarrassment he even
35:44
admits it later on he says oh my brother he was despastic you know all this
35:48
here sort of thing and I'm not using that word by the way lightly um because
35:52
that's what he says in the film he goes and he sort of mocks him you know makes
35:55
fun of him and this is about Richard's guilt because now there's a line and
35:59
the one of the one of the first flashback scenes were Sonny it's whenever Sonny.
36:04
You know, suggest that he's sexually abusing Anthony. But he also said,
36:08
your brother ran away to the army because he was embarrassed by you.
36:12
You were an embarrassment to him.
36:13
And it's a, you know, it's awful scene like, you know, brutal.
36:17
You know, I don't mean awful. I mean, you know, harrowing more.
36:20
But basically, I think that scene, Sonny was telling the truth.
36:24
Actually, I think Richard did go off to the army, was indeed embarrassed about Anthony.
36:30
But also, see the whole ghost Anthony, essentially,
36:33
you know that what were anthony richard is
36:36
basically talking to anthony in his head i think
36:40
that is richard trying
36:43
to idealize being a better big brother to anthony and
36:46
not having run off and considering him
36:49
an embarrassment and his guilt
36:52
of leaving anthony in his own the basic
36:55
and he died he considers himself you
36:59
know he racked with guilt he blames himself i mean
37:02
that's fair that makes sense i guess sometimes you don't need to
37:04
be spoon-fed it yeah you know you gotta gotta read between the lines and
37:07
exactly i can see that i suppose yeah you know it's an
37:10
independent film yeah it's it's but it's it's certainly it's got if you guys
37:15
like like yeah scorsese why named her quite a bit peckapaw especially 70s peckapaw
37:20
and scorsese yeah either even even some of tarantino style it's definitely got
37:25
all those three in there you so if you enjoy their works.
37:29
You definitely get it like Dead Man's Shoes. I know it's very beloved over here.
37:33
I know a couple of people I work with who really, really, it's one of their favorites.
37:37
I don't know if I could re-watch it. You know what I mean? It's one of those
37:40
films that I feel like gritty is tough to keep.
37:43
The Warriors kind of plays it to more there's the stylists, there's the fantasy to it.
37:49
And you can kind of re-watch the ability to enjoy it.
37:53
Something like this though, I don't know if I could get, and that's not a bad
37:56
thing guys, that doesn't make it a bad movie at all. It makes it quite a good
37:59
film because it's done its job. But,
38:02
I think it's a one-off for me. I don't think I can view it again.
38:05
I've seen it twice now because I did it for the podcast twice,
38:08
so that's three times altogether.
38:10
So I took what I got out of it. Bravo to the filmmakers and Paddy and the gang.
38:16
I just don't think it's for me to watch again. However, you would have to be
38:21
in the right frame of mind to watch it, I think, because it can't be so depressing.
38:26
I showed this to a friend one time. We were just hanging out and looking for a phone to watch.
38:30
Here, my apple, stick that on you, mate. and he described it by the end as probably
38:35
the most depressing but brilliant things you'd ever seen in your life.
38:40
That's a great drama. I mean, that's just the way those work.
38:44
Yeah. But yeah, I just don't think I can... I'm going to buy that and put it in and watch it.
38:50
I just don't know what it is. There's something about it and there's quite a
38:53
few films that would be like that.
38:56
But it's not for bad reasons because they did their job.
39:01
Yes. No, no, I get you. I get you. I personally consider it's one of my all-time favorite films.
39:07
You know, I think it's one of the greatest British films ever made.
39:10
But, you know, like I say, it's all, you know, people can disagree with me,
39:16
no problem at all. But it's one of my all-time favorites.
39:19
I think it's, as I was saying earlier, it's almost like a biblical revenge.
39:23
And there's so many religious allusions there as well. You know,
39:26
with the whole church setting at the end, you know, where Anthony dies in the
39:29
finale is. is and there's a choir at the end after Richard dies,
39:34
you know, whenever Mark makes him kill him.
39:36
So, yeah, I just think it's brilliant, brilliant. Well, there you go.
39:40
Dead Man's Shoes. At least we both liked that one over the last piece of shit.
39:45
Yeah. Fucking Wicker Man. Fuck me. How can you?
39:48
The Wicker Man is a classic. I mean, if you think this is brilliant and you
39:51
think Wicker Man fuck me. Corn with tin and barley. Alright,
39:54
so it is, we're We're going to tone it a bit here. We're going to end with a long good Friday.
40:02
For the end of the month here. Not end of the month. We're kind of all over
40:06
the place. We're at the beginning of the month. We don't have months anymore. We just go with it.
40:11
But we're going to pepper in a more relaxing film. But I decided that I'm not
40:20
going to go outside the box.
40:21
I was going to pick like Con Air or something like that. But I'm going to keep it in the UK film realm.
40:29
All right. So So instead of going pretty crime drama, we're going to do comedy drama.
40:37
So I have picked, we are going to do The Full Monty.
40:42
Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. Now. No problem. I said The Full Monty and he paused.
40:49
And I'll tell you why, people. And this is me being serious. Trevor is sick.
40:55
If it doesn't have an x rating or it hasn't been banned or graphic deaths killer
41:05
trees naked virgins people mermaids lighthouse keepers who are canadian lumberjacks.
41:16
He doesn't want anything to do with it but i'm gonna pepper in the film that
41:22
was huge in the the states and i remember seeing in the theater and adoring
41:27
it and i want to see if it still holds up to there okay i was just to be honest
41:31
i was just relieved i was waiting on i was just relieved,
41:34
that you did not say four weddings and a funeral but you know what's actually
41:39
or some shit like that i was i just for the argument but i love four weddings
41:45
and a funeral so but i was gonna I'm going to do Notting Hill because I was
41:49
thinking Hugh Grant because I like Hugh Grant a lot,
41:54
but I decided we'll dump in the Full Monty.
41:59
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I like Robert Carlyle. Yeah. All right. So next up. Yep. There we go.
42:07
Here in Trevor. Instead of naked old people, naked men of all ages.
42:15
Sounds so wrong Sounds so wrong
42:19
Alright guys Thanks for
42:22
giving us a listen You can reach out to us on Instagram And of course on Facebook
42:28
The new issue of Phantasm Glory Is out now The Hellraiser Special Edition Which
42:33
is available on Amazon worldwide And locally here in Belfast At Forbidden Planet
42:38
And other stores within the US.
42:42
Yep Thanks for joining us We're going to wrap this one up. It's a Sunday morning.
42:47
I'm going to go see the first omen, as you do on a Sunday morning. On the Sabbath. Yep.
42:56
And that's all I've got for you.