Latest / Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss / Educate to Advocate!

Transcript

Educate to Advocate! · Cry It Out Loud: Navigating Infertility, Miscarriage, Stillbirth, Infant Loss & Pregnancy After Loss

• 0:09
  Cry It out loud a podcast, by chasing the rainbows with your
• 0:17
  host Bernice Quisenberry. This week's episode is educate
• 0:27
  to Advocate, and it's with Anna Vick, who is one of the parents
• 0:31
  who founded Push Pregnancy after her own devastating loss of her
• 0:34
  son Owen. She's a strong advocate for
• 0:37
  maternal fetal health, and we can't thank you enough, Anna,
• 0:40
  for coming on here and opening up the dialogue for those who
• 0:43
  have lost babies and are going on a pregnancy after lost
• 0:47
  journey to feel validated, heard and seen.
• 0:49
  Welcome. Thank you so much for having me,
• 0:52
  and I appreciate your space. I always feel so honored when I
• 0:55
  get invited on a podcast because I like to do them myself and I'm
• 0:59
  usually hearing other people's stories.
• 1:00
  And I think it's just so like, honestly, as a parent who's
• 1:04
  eight years down the line, I don't get to talk about Owen all
• 1:06
  the time. So it's just makes my heart feel
• 1:08
  so good that I get to talk about Owen a little bit extra today
• 1:10
  and, you know, all the impact that he's having in the world of
• 1:14
  maternal health and, you know, every way that we can.
• 1:17
  Yeah. And he really is, I mean and
• 1:20
  exactly that leads us right into, you know, I would love for
• 1:23
  you to share more about Owen yourself, just for our listeners
• 1:27
  and survivors to hear on here. Thank you.
• 1:29
  Well, my name was Anna Lepevic and in case you didn't hear at
• 1:33
  the beginning, I'm actually Mexican American, so I speak
• 1:36
  Spanish. So I do attempt to translate
• 1:38
  some of the work that I do in Spanish because there is, you
• 1:42
  know, disparities and outcomes. And I'm thinking a lot of it has
• 1:45
  to do with access, of course information And you know, when
• 1:48
  it comes to language that can also be a barrier.
• 1:50
  So I work very hard as a volunteer for push for empowered
• 1:55
  pregnancy to kind of get the word out about still birth
• 1:58
  prevention because when we were pregnant with our second child,
• 2:00
  oh, and we knew nothing about still birth.
• 2:03
  And that's a big part of my journey now is just learning
• 2:06
  everything I can about prevention of still birth.
• 2:09
  A big part of it is just making people aware.
• 2:12
  And for me, it was a low risk pregnancy.
• 2:14
  Like we were talking. My first child was also normal,
• 2:18
  but she became breech and she just would not turn around.
• 2:21
  So Naomi was born healthy and beautiful.
• 2:24
  She's a full term baby and you know, God blessed us with her
• 2:28
  first and I'm very grateful that I had her and then we wanted to
• 2:31
  have, you know, more siblings for her.
• 2:34
  So we started trying to conceive again about a year or so after.
• 2:36
  And we had a miscarriage and it was early on.
• 2:39
  So we really didn't think anything was wrong yet with our
• 2:42
  situation. So, you know, of course they
• 2:45
  tell you just gonna get pregnant again.
• 2:46
  You know, you can do it again in the sort of months, you know,
• 2:48
  like, sure, OK. You know, And it was
• 2:50
  devastating. It was very crushing to go
• 2:53
  through that. So we waited appropriate amount
• 2:56
  of time. And then we tried again.
• 2:58
  And luckily we got pregnant with Owen pretty quickly, easily.
• 3:02
  We were actually on vacation in Santa Barbara.
• 3:04
  I remember it. We're just like, oh, we were
• 3:06
  pregnant. You know, it's just the whole
• 3:08
  thing, like everything was going smoothly, beautifully.
• 3:11
  The pregnancy was, you know, normal.
• 3:13
  Nothing was complicating it at all, really, until the end.
• 3:17
  I started to feel a little bit weak, and then it got to a point
• 3:20
  where it was super faint. Like, I had to sit down and do
• 3:23
  my makeup before work and I would just, like, sit on the
• 3:25
  couch. I was like, I can't do this, you
• 3:27
  know? So then I started to tell my
• 3:29
  boss and like, is there any way I could work from home?
• 3:32
  And, you know, they kind of pushed off for quite a while,
• 3:35
  finally telling me that they couldn't make that work for
• 3:37
  them. So I ended up quitting because
• 3:41
  of safety. I didn't want to faint on the
• 3:42
  road, you know? And then I was home with my
• 3:45
  daughter now, and she was about 3, and I had already been
• 3:49
  working since she was six weeks old.
• 3:51
  So I felt like, let's give me some time with her.
• 3:53
  And you know, now I get to be full time mom, It was awesome.
• 3:56
  So I went with her everywhere, Took her all day long to things.
• 4:01
  The night that Owen passed away actually was like a full day of
• 4:04
  Naomi time. Because I was thinking, you
• 4:06
  know, I'm going to have another child soon.
• 4:08
  She won't get this one-on-one time anymore.
• 4:10
  So I took her to the library, did this fun little thing they
• 4:13
  had in the morning, took her out to lunch.
• 4:16
  I remember we even sat with, like some police officers.
• 4:20
  It was very random, but it was just such a interesting day.
• 4:22
  So I remember all these little things.
• 4:24
  And then we went to a shop. She looked at all these things.
• 4:27
  I got her shoes for ballet. We went to ballet, met my
• 4:30
  husband, and then he took, or we went to dinner, and then he took
• 4:35
  her home. And then I went to my friend's
• 4:36
  flower shop, 'cause she was getting ready for a show.
• 4:39
  And then I was home really late. I mean, this was a long day.
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  But the whole time, you know, I always felt really healthy.
• 4:45
  And actually, at this point, I actually had my energy back,
• 4:47
  which was interesting to me. Now I'm thinking, you know, the
• 4:51
  whole time I was faint, we were having an issue with my son, and
• 4:53
  I didn't know it. And my husband and I both told
• 4:56
  the doctors, like every appointment we like, something's
• 4:58
  a little off. And you know, they kind of write
• 5:00
  you off sometimes like, oh, that's just normal pregnancy
• 5:03
  symptom and it's your second child and it's a boy.
• 5:05
  It might be different for you, all these things.
• 5:08
  So they never actually checked anything about him other than
• 5:12
  telling me to take more iron, which I did.
• 5:14
  And then I still kind of felt the weakness.
• 5:17
  But other than that, there was really nothing.
• 5:19
  And then that night I did start to feel change of movement and
• 5:23
  it was super late, you know, So I was laying there by myself,
• 5:25
  just having a little bite to eat or something and I was watching
• 5:28
  TV. You know, you just get, like a
• 5:30
  feeling. And a lot of parents have
• 5:33
  mentioned, like, it's, it's tuition, kind of like you're so
• 5:36
  connected with your baby. So I was like, something's off,
• 5:39
  Something's weird. So I went upstairs, put some
• 5:42
  clothes on. My husband's like, what's wrong?
• 5:44
  You know, he was laying down already because it was, you
• 5:46
  know, later in the evening. And he actually got food
• 5:49
  poisoning from that restaurant. Let's see what another horrible
• 5:52
  part of the story had to deal with all this with the six
• 5:55
  tummy. But so I said, I'm just going to
• 5:58
  go get checked out. He even had me lay down.
• 6:01
  He held my tummy. He's like, no, I felt him.
• 6:04
  He's probably sleeping, like it's almost midnight or
• 6:06
  something. So I'm like, no, I just need
• 6:09
  that reassurance. I'm going into like the closest
• 6:11
  hospital, not even where I wanted to give birth or
• 6:13
  anything. And then I'll be back.
• 6:16
  And then, you know, my daughter is also sleeping.
• 6:18
  So I'm like, you guys just stay here.
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  And then I get in and I'm just crying, you know?
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  Like, I just felt like there's something totally wrong now.
• 6:25
  Like, my tummy was always pretty stiff.
• 6:28
  And it was like, kind of limp at that point.
• 6:30
  And, you know, I never heard of Silver.
• 6:32
  I didn't know nothing. I didn't know my baby was dying.
• 6:34
  Like, I had no clue. Like, no clue at all.
• 6:38
  And then they were checking me in, you know, taking some time,
• 6:41
  and they just kept telling me everything's gonna be OK, you
• 6:43
  know, finally get the monitor on me.
• 6:46
  And I heard a heartbeat. I had my husband on the phone,
• 6:50
  so we both were like, OK, we're relieved.
• 6:52
  He's fine, freaked out for nothing.
• 6:54
  And I'm gonna go home soon, So I hang up and then I'm still
• 6:57
  there. Nobody communicated anything.
• 7:01
  They were doing ultrasound and the tech was so quiet.
• 7:05
  And I remember I was like, I need her to say something.
• 7:08
  Like, I just started to get a little stressed out about it,
• 7:09
  you know? Like, is it still a boy?
• 7:12
  Like, just kind of joking. Like, we're at 31 weeks and five
• 7:15
  days, and she's like, I don't check for those things when I do
• 7:19
  these. You know, I was like, OK, So
• 7:22
  what are you checking for? You know?
• 7:23
  But I didn't ask. Like, I just shut up, you know,
• 7:25
  'cause that's basically what she wanted as I just sat there
• 7:29
  again, like, laying there and I'm like, this is so strange.
• 7:31
  And I actually have a picture of my belly took a picture of when
• 7:34
  I had the NSC, the band on my tummy.
• 7:36
  And that's like the last picture out of me pregnant.
• 7:39
  But yeah, soon they were like the doctors here, how how low is
• 7:45
  the heart rate now? Or what's the heart rate at?
• 7:47
  And that woman again with her little attitude was like, now
• 7:51
  you know, like I'm in the middle of something kind of thing.
• 7:54
  They're like, yes, he's here now.
• 7:55
  He wants to know how, What's the heart rate?
• 7:58
  See, I turned red. I told her I get hives when I
• 8:00
  talk about this. And she said the number, which I
• 8:06
  don't know the numbers too. Again, I'm not a doctor.
• 8:09
  It was super low. So then everyone comes flying
• 8:12
  in. And again, you know, no one had
• 8:15
  given me the heads up, So my husband's not there and I'm
• 8:18
  like, my husband's not here to see his baby born, like, what's
• 8:21
  going on? So they're just like, well, this
• 8:23
  is the only chance for, you know, we need to do this.
• 8:26
  And you can call him, but he probably won't make it.
• 8:29
  So I call my husband on speaker freaking out.
• 8:32
  And he's like, don't worry, I'll get there as soon as I can.
• 8:33
  He got a friend to come and watch your daughter.
• 8:35
  And he, you know, raced over there.
• 8:38
  Meanwhile, they're rushing me. I signed some papers, you know,
• 8:43
  sign my life away because they got to cut me open.
• 8:46
  And then they started to put the mask on my face.
• 8:48
  And they hadn't told me what they were doing.
• 8:50
  You know, they're just like, I looked at the woman, I'm like,
• 8:53
  what are you doing to me? And she's just like, oh, this is
• 8:56
  the quickest way of putting you under, you know, start to count
• 9:01
  or whatever. And I just started praying.
• 9:02
  I was like, God, please don't let me die here.
• 9:05
  Like, I seriously thought that was it.
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  Like, I'm going to be cut open and my family will never see me
• 9:10
  get my daughter. I was like just I like I need to
• 9:13
  be here for my husband, my daughter.
• 9:15
  And I said like please protect my son and at the time his name
• 9:18
  was Jackson. I should have brought the thing
• 9:21
  I had made him a sign that said Jackson that matches this
• 9:25
  actually from his design for his room.
• 9:28
  My husband and I had agreed that I would choose the name though
• 9:31
  because it was a boy. So regardless, I would be able
• 9:33
  to choose and I started praying and I just heard the the word
• 9:37
  Owen. Nathaniel like that would be his
• 9:40
  name, which I always was. Like, I I guess God chose his
• 9:43
  name for me. I'm not like a super, I'm
• 9:45
  religious, but like, I'm not like a person who, like ever had
• 9:48
  that experience before of God speaking to me or anything.
• 9:51
  So it was just surreal. So I fell asleep.
• 9:54
  I'm black and I wake up to, you know, darkness still because I'm
• 9:59
  coming out of it. But my husband was there.
• 10:02
  I could tell something was wrong.
• 10:04
  And then that doctor came in. They said we're sorry he didn't
• 10:08
  make it your son that died or however they said it and you
• 10:11
  know how that is. It's just like out of body like
• 10:15
  screams, like the guttural scream was like a wounded animal
• 10:20
  and I just couldn't stop screaming and yelling and like
• 10:22
  crying. And then my husband said, I kept
• 10:28
  asking him because I kept coming out of it, like, throughout that
• 10:31
  next few hours. And, like, where's my baby?
• 10:34
  Like, I didn't know again. And I don't remember that part.
• 10:38
  But apparently I had to keep explaining to me that Owen had
• 10:41
  died. And then finally, when I was
• 10:42
  normal, you know, they were like, you.
• 10:44
  You want to hold your child. I was so scared.
• 10:46
  I even took a video of myself saying, like, I really don't
• 10:49
  know, like, if I can do this, you know, you don't know what
• 10:52
  they're going to even look like. And he wasn't full term, but he
• 10:55
  was close. He was only two months shy of
• 10:57
  his actual due date. So they told me, you know,
• 11:01
  you're going to want to hold him, which I'm thankful they
• 11:04
  encourage that. And then I did.
• 11:06
  And nothing can explain how hard that is.
• 11:12
  Yeah. Absolutely not.
• 11:14
  And Anna, thank you so much for sharing.
• 11:19
  This is my son right here and the little beanie they gave us
• 11:23
  with, So I keep it in the little shadow box.
• 11:25
  And I mean, he was 4 lbs, two oz, 18 1/2 inches long.
• 11:30
  So he was a good size already. And I'm thankful I do have some
• 11:35
  photos and I didn't know about taking video or, you know, I
• 11:39
  didn't think to change him myself.
• 11:40
  Or, you know, a lot of people now talk a lot more about
• 11:43
  bereavement care. And I'm grateful for all the
• 11:45
  groups like yours too, that encourage families to have those
• 11:48
  moments because you can't get them back.
• 11:51
  You know, I helped him a lot when I held him.
• 11:53
  I was just like, this feels like I'm his mom.
• 11:57
  And like people would come in and talk with me.
• 11:58
  And I remember one of my friends, the one that was the
• 12:00
  florist I was helping, came through and she sat there for
• 12:04
  hours just chatting with me. And I'm like, she just gave me
• 12:06
  that gift of feeling normal. Like she didn't look at him
• 12:09
  weird or anything. And you know, they they do start
• 12:12
  to change and you can't have them for too long.
• 12:15
  But I mean, the minute I had him already, he had already been
• 12:19
  changed 'cause I was put under. So I missed out on seeing him
• 12:23
  fresh from my room and he wasn't warm anymore, you know.
• 12:26
  So it's such a devastating way to meet your child, but I know
• 12:32
  it's great for people to have that time.
• 12:36
  Absolutely. I mean that time is so precious
• 12:39
  and it is, it's, it's valuable for us.
• 12:43
  I know. And I feel like it wasn't enough
• 12:45
  time to be honest. You know, we had a couple hours
• 12:47
  with our daughter and I I could have done a couple days, you
• 12:50
  know, and and just not having that and oh.
• 12:53
  Yeah, so I went. Through.
• 12:56
  I had the C-section, so, you know, they want you there a
• 13:00
  little longer after, but I was like, as soon as I can walk, I
• 13:03
  need to get out. But, you know, also they had me
• 13:05
  on the floor that they had other mothers.
• 13:07
  So I was supposed to be walking the floor so that I can get, you
• 13:11
  know, your bowels, moving, everything normal again.
• 13:13
  And I had to walk class rooms with babies crying and all that.
• 13:16
  And my mom was with me. I remember her just holding me
• 13:19
  up. And I was like, this is torture,
• 13:21
  you know? And then I came back to my room,
• 13:24
  you know, it was quiet and dark. And they have you in there, you
• 13:27
  know, like, they don't come by too much.
• 13:29
  Sometimes they try to give you your time, but at the same time
• 13:32
  you just feel like, oh, my God, no one wants to talk to me.
• 13:35
  Like I was like, as soon as I can get out of here, I need to
• 13:39
  get out of here, 'cause I had my daughter and she was going to
• 13:41
  preschool in, like, next couple days.
• 13:43
  And I was like, I need to go and explain to the teachers in case
• 13:45
  she says anything about her little brother, who's an Angel
• 13:49
  now. I didn't want anyone to be like
• 13:52
  what are you talking about, you know, and we had to pick his
• 13:56
  Funeral arrangements and I didn't want my husband to go
• 13:59
  alone to that cemetery. So I just pushed my body out,
• 14:03
  you know, and then you have to go your service if you have one
• 14:06
  and which we did and it was really nice.
• 14:08
  We had a lot of family come through, but a lot of his Co
• 14:11
  workers actually showed up. They like he used to work at
• 14:14
  Warner Brothers and they let the whole set out early so they can
• 14:17
  all come. So it was really special.
• 14:19
  They all came and, you know, honored him.
• 14:21
  And my daughter was there. I didn't want her to see him,
• 14:25
  though. So she actually didn't meet
• 14:26
  Owen. I didn't know how that imprint
• 14:29
  would be in her memory, you know, So she was there for the
• 14:32
  funeral, but she never actually saw him, you know?
• 14:37
  And then we did, like a balloon release.
• 14:39
  I told everyone, I don't want to talk about dying.
• 14:41
  I just wonder what to say. He went, he's an Angel.
• 14:43
  He went to heaven. Like, I just felt really
• 14:45
  concerned about her more than anything.
• 14:46
  And then after now, of course, as you go through it, you're
• 14:52
  just like, OK, I kind of wish she had met him, 'cause I don't
• 14:55
  have one picture with them together.
• 14:57
  And, you know, I don't know if she wanted that memory.
• 15:00
  But I do remember when she saw a picture of me and my husband
• 15:04
  next to my bed. You know, on the many days
• 15:05
  after, I was just crying, crying.
• 15:08
  She would sit there with me in this in the rocking chair that
• 15:11
  was supposed to be breastfeeding on.
• 15:12
  And it was in my corner of my room and she would sit and just
• 15:15
  kind of hang out while I was like, laying in bed.
• 15:19
  And she saw the photo and she said, whose baby is that?
• 15:22
  And I was like, that's your brother.
• 15:24
  She's like, so, like, the confusion in her head, I just
• 15:28
  was like, oh, no, she doesn't understand that he actually was
• 15:31
  born and died, like, technically at the same time in my case.
• 15:36
  But she kind of, I think with the way I described it, that
• 15:40
  like, he just went from my belly to heaven or something like
• 15:42
  that. And nobody saw him.
• 15:43
  Nobody got to hold him. And then she did say something
• 15:46
  like, well, I didn't get to. I didn't get to meet him.
• 15:48
  Like I was like, oh, gosh, I didn't even think about that,
• 15:52
  you know, But we did what we could.
• 15:54
  And you know, the whole after part you have postpartum, the
• 15:58
  milk comes in. It's again, all the torture of a
• 16:01
  new mom. But no baby.
• 16:03
  There went through a lot of hard times with the birth
• 16:05
  certificate. I was told that he was getting
• 16:09
  one. I went to go get it finally,
• 16:11
  like a month or two later, and they told me, like, he's not in
• 16:14
  the system. And I went through all this
• 16:16
  hassle to try to figure out what's going on.
• 16:18
  And then they said, well, technically they shouldn't have
• 16:20
  told you that you can have one because he's actually considered
• 16:23
  still birth. Like the hospital finally told
• 16:24
  me they messed it all up. And so I had to go through all
• 16:28
  this extra trauma, Like you're not acknowledging my baby's
• 16:32
  birth, even though he died, he was born, you know?
• 16:35
  So all that to say, you know, eventually they also didn't help
• 16:39
  me find a cause of death. My husband and I went to get
• 16:42
  some meetings with them, and they just sat there across the
• 16:45
  table with, like, no paperwork, nothing.
• 16:46
  And just like, we're so sorry for your loss.
• 16:48
  And we're like, yeah, but what happened?
• 16:51
  Can we review my medical records?
• 16:53
  You know, I want to have more kids.
• 16:54
  I need to know what happened. And all my doctors, like,
• 16:57
  sometimes healthy babies just die.
• 16:59
  And I'm like, wow, OK, that's not useful for me now.
• 17:04
  And it's also terrifying. You know, like, I'm going to get
• 17:07
  pregnant again. And who knows what's going to
• 17:08
  happen to that next baby. So I was deep into this like
• 17:13
  ongoing research thing. Like I would go to bed with the
• 17:16
  phone by my bed and just like what does this word mean and
• 17:19
  like read all the the research, like trying to figure out what
• 17:22
  are the causes, what's happening.
• 17:25
  So that went on forever. And then, you know, got together
• 17:28
  with the women who are now the push for empowered pregnancy
• 17:30
  founders. And you know, we decided to
• 17:33
  start the organization almost three years ago and we we're
• 17:37
  talking about, you know, we need to make a lot of noise.
• 17:39
  You know we're very like we're advocacy based kind of group
• 17:42
  like we're just about trying to implement changes in the medical
• 17:46
  system, trying to see some legislative change happen so
• 17:49
  that we can, you know, have consistent care across the
• 17:52
  country. And also pushing hard on
• 17:56
  pregnancy after loss care because as we've talked about
• 18:00
  before, it's very different. Sometimes you do get great care
• 18:02
  after loss, but we do want to have people trained with like
• 18:06
  Trauma Informed care, which is one of the programs we offer.
• 18:10
  So if anyone's interested, you don't have to have a Rainbow
• 18:12
  clinic. You could just take that online,
• 18:15
  which it's really important I think to be able to talk to us
• 18:18
  properly about, you know, even the past pregnancy situation.
• 18:22
  So and you know, we read through a lot like to try to get the
• 18:28
  next child here. So I did have a MIS miscarriage
• 18:30
  after that and I just felt like I was broken.
• 18:33
  I was like, my womb broke. Like, I don't know what
• 18:35
  happened. I had one good baby, like she
• 18:37
  was born normal. Then everything's happening and
• 18:41
  I just couldn't understand it. But ended up with that
• 18:44
  pregnancy. I was with a good doctor.
• 18:46
  He's a high risk doctor. I was just, I really trusted
• 18:48
  him. And he just told me like, it's
• 18:51
  kind of bad luck, really. There is no reason why this is
• 18:54
  happening to you. So I was like, oh great, another
• 18:56
  person was telling me, you know, answers.
• 19:00
  Just try again. Right.
• 19:02
  And we do. We want those answers.
• 19:03
  We want to know something, you know, and just giving us some
• 19:06
  peace with it because there's so many questions we have.
• 19:10
  Well, and I don't know about you, Anna, too, but I felt like,
• 19:13
  is it something, like you said, like your womb's broken, You
• 19:16
  know, Like, is there something wrong with me or what did I do?
• 19:19
  You know, because there's all of those feelings that are flooding
• 19:22
  over us when we're going through our baby losses.
• 19:26
  Yeah. So what we did was obviously
• 19:28
  just keep going to this guy. At the time, I didn't know I was
• 19:30
  like, what else can I do? Did the genetic testing.
• 19:33
  That was OK. I didn't know.
• 19:35
  So I looked at the causes of silver.
• 19:37
  So like a lot of things can happen at the end, which we
• 19:39
  didn't know about the cord issues and the sense issues and
• 19:44
  all that. But I I I remember I insisted I
• 19:47
  said I want to take baby aspirin even though, like I had no
• 19:49
  medical reason for it really. But I knew that helped in some
• 19:52
  pregnancies and I did think I'm like, I might have a blood
• 19:56
  clotting issue, but we didn't find it.
• 19:58
  So I just want to do this. So he actually was accepting of
• 20:00
  a lot of the things that I pushed on and he let me take
• 20:03
  that eventually. And you know, I did have issues.
• 20:07
  So it wasn't a fun pregnancy. It was a high risk pregnancy
• 20:10
  already because of the still birth.
• 20:11
  And then it became a high risk pregnancy on its own because I
• 20:14
  got a competent cervix at 20 weeks.
• 20:16
  And so basically, my next son was coming too soon.
• 20:20
  And we had, thankfully, a successful circlage surgery and
• 20:25
  then they put me on 17 weeks of bed rest for the rest of the
• 20:28
  pregnancy. So it was very hard because
• 20:32
  especially with the mentality of like a lost mom, like
• 20:35
  something's going to happen and I'm just laying here, you know,
• 20:37
  I'm just laying here like crocheting everything I could
• 20:40
  and reading and watching everything on TV and try to get
• 20:44
  my mind off it. Did a lot of support groups on
• 20:46
  Zoom and everything, and that helps a lot.
• 20:48
  I think if you're going through pregnancy after loss, like make
• 20:50
  sure you find some community, you know?
• 20:53
  I remember I even had one specific friend and she's in
• 20:56
  Australia, and we would just message each other because we
• 20:59
  were going through it at the same time and that just, we just
• 21:01
  like pulling each other along, you know?
• 21:02
  Like, all right, We made it another week, you know?
• 21:05
  Yes. Because it is mentally and
• 21:08
  emotionally just draining. You know, you're living what we
• 21:12
  just went through all over again.
• 21:13
  You don't like, I swear me going into and I don't.
• 21:16
  Yeah, you know, like going into doctor's appointments,
• 21:19
  ultrasound appointments, you just, it's a trigger.
• 21:22
  Like am I going to walk into something that I'm not ready
• 21:25
  for, you know? That's exactly what happened.
• 21:28
  Every ultrasound was like torture, especially with my
• 21:31
  doctor because he was very quiet.
• 21:33
  He's an older man, he's very amazing, but like he's not very
• 21:36
  good at bedside manner. I would say, like indicating.
• 21:39
  So I would just sit there and I'm like trembling like, Oh my
• 21:43
  God, he's going to say something's wrong right now.
• 21:45
  And what she did at that 20 week mark and I was just like, Oh my
• 21:47
  God, we're losing another baby right now.
• 21:49
  Like I didn't know what was going to happen.
• 21:50
  He's like, put your clothes on. I'm going to get, you know, they
• 21:53
  get the nurse to deliver the bad news with them, you know.
• 21:55
  And so it's like this is not sounding good.
• 21:57
  Josh. I just said, Josh, I'm like, Oh
• 21:59
  my God. And thank God it wasn't the
• 22:01
  baby. It was just the cervix and all
• 22:03
  that. So they could fix that.
• 22:05
  But it wasn't even a guarantee, of course.
• 22:08
  And a lot of people that lose a baby with and so I'm very lucky.
• 22:13
  But I had a lot of people, you know, coming and supporting the
• 22:16
  family. Like I couldn't move.
• 22:17
  I was supposed to just be laying down all day, every day, even
• 22:21
  couldn't do the, like, even cooking or even like putting
• 22:25
  some dishes in the dishwasher. Like this is how Ted's bed rest
• 22:28
  is. If anyone is told that you're
• 22:30
  doing bed rest, it's much worse than you could even think, you
• 22:32
  know? And my husband stepped up,
• 22:34
  obviously a lot. And then we had family members
• 22:37
  and people staying with us here and there and a lot of friends
• 22:39
  would drop off food Like it was one of those times.
• 22:42
  I think it was very humbling for me because you know how you get
• 22:44
  with your work and everything, You just feel like you could
• 22:47
  take care of yourself and your family and you got to, you know,
• 22:50
  And then when you can't, it's like, where's my community?
• 22:53
  Oh my God. And they just start stepping up
• 22:55
  for you. And it's just like so beautiful
• 22:57
  when you see, like, what they'll do for your family, you know?
• 23:01
  And they all help my new Jackson get here safely.
• 23:05
  So we ended up naming the last one Jackson.
• 23:07
  So just to wrap up that story, it was during that period that I
• 23:11
  was like, you know, relying heavily on just my faith and
• 23:14
  trying to, like, get myself through that pregnancy after
• 23:17
  loss. And I did come across a woman
• 23:19
  who had several miscarriages. I remember her story and she
• 23:22
  mentioned that she had this feeling like that God had
• 23:26
  promised her child. So she was just going to keep
• 23:28
  trying, you know? And I'm like, well, maybe that's
• 23:30
  why I didn't end up naming him Jackson because God promised me
• 23:33
  I'll have a son named Jackson and that wasn't him,
• 23:36
  unfortunately. So, like, it's just the name got
• 23:38
  changed on me, you know? And I was like, I'm going to
• 23:40
  have a, a son and his name will be Jackson.
• 23:42
  And then when we found out we were pregnant with Jackson, it
• 23:45
  was crazy because we waited for genetic testing.
• 23:48
  You know, we're trying to be safe, got the news, everything
• 23:51
  was fine. So we're like, let's try.
• 23:54
  And we tried and we got pregnant right away.
• 23:56
  And the due date was actually Owen's birthday.
• 23:59
  So of every day they can get for the next pregnancy.
• 24:03
  So we're like, well, that's a sign.
• 24:05
  And Owen's, you know, sending us Jackson, you know, he's here
• 24:09
  now. He's 6.
• 24:10
  He's amazing. And, you know, my husband always
• 24:14
  reminds me, we don't know if we would have had them both, you
• 24:16
  know, But that stuff really doesn't help me.
• 24:18
  And I know a lot of grieving parrots get told things like
• 24:20
  that by other people. Like, well, you could have
• 24:22
  another child and like, but I see a missing child in the
• 24:26
  picture. Like I have a 12 year old and I
• 24:28
  have a six year old. That's a six year gap of the
• 24:31
  children I'm raising. And Owen would be 8.
• 24:34
  So I'm like he's the perfect middle child.
• 24:36
  He would have bounced off both of them, you know, And my son
• 24:40
  would have a little, you know, Big Brother to hang out with.
• 24:43
  And it's just hard for me when someone says something like that
• 24:46
  to not feel like that does not help, you know?
• 24:51
  No, There's like I, we call them like throwaway comments or, you
• 24:54
  know, when you're sharing about your loss and in the same breath
• 24:57
  they say you should, or at least it's like I just shut down, you
• 25:02
  know, with whatever's going to come out of their mouth next,
• 25:04
  just because it's normally something that I don't want to
• 25:07
  hear, you know? And if and if a survivor
• 25:09
  believes that, great. And they say it great, but not,
• 25:14
  you know, 'cause I know I was the same way, and I feel like it
• 25:18
  happens a lot with miscarriage. Yeah.
• 25:20
  Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 25:22
  And I mean, no one understands the level of trauma for
• 25:24
  miscarriage for a woman. Like every time I would have my
• 25:27
  period, I would be terrified even if I wasn't trying.
• 25:30
  I thought I was miscarring, you know?
• 25:32
  Like I'm just miscarring every month now.
• 25:34
  Like, that's all I think about when I'm having blood come out,
• 25:37
  you know? And it's not normal, but it's
• 25:38
  just like, it's such a trauma in your body now that no matter
• 25:42
  what, you know, it comes to mind.
• 25:44
  And you know, even with miscarriage, like the way that
• 25:48
  we're treated, you're supposed to just do it alone at home, no
• 25:52
  medication, like just see what happens to you, kind of thing.
• 25:55
  And I remember my miss miscarriage was the worst
• 25:57
  because I actually felt like I had labor pains because I had
• 26:00
  gone from the baby supposedly passing around six weeks, and I
• 26:04
  didn't want to go through any additional stuff, you know, in
• 26:07
  case I want to get pregnant, which I did again.
• 26:09
  So I was like, no, I don't want to go through AD and C or
• 26:11
  anything. So I just wanted my body to
• 26:13
  naturally miscarry. And it took till 11 weeks.
• 26:16
  And then at that point my body, we had been hanging on to this
• 26:19
  pregnancy and I felt so pregnant still.
• 26:22
  I thought I was having twins the whole time, you know, I felt
• 26:24
  super pregnant with that pregnancy.
• 26:26
  And then when it finally happened, it was like I was
• 26:28
  miscarrying, but I was feeling like I was in labor.
• 26:30
  Like it was so painful. I was at home and I called the
• 26:33
  hospital, the doctor. And I was like, something's
• 26:36
  wrong. Like I'm bleeding way too much,
• 26:38
  Like. And they're just like, well,
• 26:39
  unless it's this much or this much clots and you're like,
• 26:42
  well, I don't know, you know? And you're like, am I
• 26:45
  hemorrhaging? Like you don't actually know how
• 26:47
  much blood is too much. But yet they don't really want
• 26:50
  you in the hospital miscarrying. They want you to just do this at
• 26:53
  home. So, I mean, I'm so sorry for
• 26:55
  anyone who's had miscarriage too, because like, it's so
• 26:59
  discounted and so traumatizing too.
• 27:02
  It really. Is.
• 27:04
  And Anna, I can't thank you enough for being on here.
• 27:08
  You know, for sharing your story, allowing survivors, you
• 27:11
  know to to hear what you've been through and your losses of your
• 27:14
  sweet, precious babies and just all the work that you're doing
• 27:19
  for survivors that you know that either they were weren't aware
• 27:22
  of. It's just so beautiful.
• 27:24
  And I'm just grateful to have you a part of you know our
• 27:28
  community and and you getting on this podcast.
• 27:31
  So thank you so much. You're welcome.
• 27:33
  And if anyone is at all interested in what we do, we
• 27:37
  always love having volunteers at PUSH.
• 27:38
  And you don't have to do anything or you could just, you
• 27:41
  know, come along when you see something you're interested in.
• 27:43
  And you know, a lot of us like to go to DC and advocate, which
• 27:46
  I hope we're going to see you there next time, yes.
• 27:48
  Yes. Yeah.
• 27:49
  I'm looking forward to being involved in, yeah, making a
• 27:52
  difference and really our numbers, yeah.
• 27:55
  Those are like the best for me, even though so far we haven't
• 27:59
  passed the two bills we're trying to pass the Shine for
• 28:01
  Autumn Act and the Still Birth Prevention Act.
• 28:03
  They're two great bills that are bipartisan.
• 28:05
  And if anyone sees those links, please go ahead and share.
• 28:09
  And go and get in touch with your legislators too, because we
• 28:12
  still need Co sponsorship. But it still feels great because
• 28:16
  at least you're telling your child's story to people that can
• 28:19
  create change and it does matter.
• 28:21
  They actually listen to us. They sit there.
• 28:25
  Usually it's an illegal aid or or the aid for the senator or
• 28:30
  the representative you're meeting with.
• 28:31
  But I have met with some of the actual representatives in person
• 28:35
  too. And they give you their time and
• 28:37
  it's just amazing when you feel like something's happening from
• 28:41
  it, which is a big part. I think of the loss after.
• 28:43
  It's kind of why some people and myself included, carry a lot of
• 28:46
  anger because you're like, this isn't right and they're not
• 28:48
  changing. And but if you use your voice
• 28:51
  and you put your story out there and then you see something
• 28:54
  happen like a bill passed or maybe your hospital decides to
• 28:57
  start handing out, count the kicks, brochures and things like
• 29:00
  that. Then you feel like a little less
• 29:04
  the anger, you know, kind of subsides.
• 29:06
  And then you can kind of focus more on your grief and your
• 29:08
  journey and you know how you can parent your child after loss,
• 29:11
  which is what I feel like I'm doing with this work.
• 29:13
  So, you know, you don't have to live like that forever.
• 29:17
  But, you know, I did get my rage modes.
• 29:19
  And I get kind of like you'll see me on social media if you
• 29:22
  follow my still my son, Paige. That's my personal one.
• 29:26
  I'm OK with that because I think it's not right, what has
• 29:29
  happened to so many of us. And I think rage is a powerful
• 29:33
  emotion as well. But like, I like to channel it
• 29:35
  when I can. And actually, like, I'm not just
• 29:37
  mad, but like, let's do something about it.
• 29:40
  Let's stop letting babies die. You know, let's protect these
• 29:43
  families And like mothers too that are like their lives are on
• 29:47
  the line. And we don't realize that when
• 29:48
  we become pregnant, pregnant and like a lot of us, just focused
• 29:52
  on how we're going to decorate this nursery and what the name's
• 29:55
  going to be. And it's like, no, you really
• 29:56
  need to be paying really close attention to how you're feeling,
• 29:59
  how your baby's feeling, and also making sure that you're
• 30:02
  being heard and getting someone to back you up.
• 30:05
  You know, have a doula, which is really becoming more popular
• 30:08
  now. And you know, do whatever you
• 30:10
  need to do and go get a second opinion.
• 30:13
  You know those are options for you.
• 30:15
  You don't need to sit there and just be brushed aside.
• 30:18
  Exactly. And just accept what you're
• 30:20
  being told, almost. And it's so true with being so
• 30:23
  in tune with your body and listening and also then going
• 30:26
  and speaking and going into your provider and mentioning this is
• 30:31
  what's happening. You know this doesn't feel right
• 30:34
  and really like pushing them to do more further testing if
• 30:36
  they're not willingly going to do it.
• 30:38
  Right. Which is, you know, I highlight
• 30:40
  that a lot with my pregnancy after last because I did have
• 30:43
  the best care available. I thought, you know, and I do
• 30:46
  think they're amazing, but they don't know me.
• 30:47
  They don't know my body. And I kept telling them I have
• 30:49
  an infection, Something's going on here.
• 30:51
  And I'd come in and they test me and like, Nope, you're good.
• 30:54
  And I'm like, Are you sure? The next time I came in, I was
• 30:56
  crying. I was telling the woman, I'm
• 30:58
  like, I think you're missing something.
• 31:00
  I'm. I'm really scared I'm gonna lose
• 31:02
  my baby. And I was just crying.
• 31:03
  I just couldn't help myself. And she's just like, well, what
• 31:06
  else can I do to make you feel better?
• 31:07
  There's this one last Test, but I don't think you have that.
• 31:10
  I'm like, please do it. And anything else you can think
• 31:12
  of, you know? And then she called me the next
• 31:14
  day. She said you were right.
• 31:15
  Anna. You have a GVS infection and
• 31:17
  it's pretty high and the BV and all that stuff.
• 31:19
  So we do need to give you medication.
• 31:22
  But then the baby will be fine. I'm like, wait a minute.
• 31:25
  Backed up like you just told me. Basically, if I hadn't pushed so
• 31:28
  Dang hard, he would have missed this one.
• 31:30
  And then maybe I would have had a preterm birth.
• 31:32
  Maybe the infection would have led to still birth again.
• 31:35
  You know, I was just like, this is insane, you know?
• 31:38
  And I just think Owen, I mean, he's the one who's changed who I
• 31:42
  am in the medical setting for sure that, you know, I know now.
• 31:45
  Like, you can't just trust others in their tests and what
• 31:48
  they're doing. Be right, you know, you know
• 31:52
  yourself more than they do. And the baby too, like you're
• 31:55
  feeling the movements, you know, that baby's acting different.
• 31:58
  You need to go in. Don't take your time.
• 31:59
  Don't drink juice, don't start a new kick count, you know, don't
• 32:03
  call the doctor and let them talk you out of it.
• 32:05
  Just go and get checked out if you feel anything is wrong.
• 32:07
  Because that's the only way that they're going to be able to
• 32:10
  verify, you know, and don't just check the heartbeat, you know,
• 32:14
  The heartbeat's the last to go. Make sure they have the full
• 32:18
  ultrasound, NST done and everything.
• 32:20
  But even if that happens, a lot of people come back and then the
• 32:24
  baby has died. So I just want to, you know,
• 32:26
  reinforce. Even if they've done all their
• 32:28
  tests and you still feel something's wrong, you need to
• 32:30
  keep pushing and stay there or come back as many times as you
• 32:34
  need until your baby's home safely in your arms.
• 32:38
  And thank you so much, Anna, for leaving our listeners with that
• 32:41
  and sharing that because it is. It's so important that because
• 32:45
  we're the ones that are at home living with our baby inside of
• 32:49
  us, our doctors aren't there. They're not experiencing what we
• 32:51
  are. No one can see.
• 32:53
  There's no crystal ball, no one. You know, we will only get
• 32:56
  answers if we go seek treatment, go in, get tests, ran, you know,
• 33:01
  and figuring out what it is. I swear that intuition is so
• 33:05
  important and it was something that I felt with our brook too.
• 33:09
  And I wish you know I would have pushed more for more answers and
• 33:12
  things during that time, but. But it's hard to know, I think.
• 33:15
  And I and I want to give a just grace to all of us.
• 33:18
  Like, we don't know that This, you don't know.
• 33:21
  What you don't know, right? And it it's true, so.
• 33:25
  And I think I, you know, I'm so sorry for anyone's lost and
• 33:28
  definitely go chasing the rainbows for your support.
• 33:30
  I know Push is going to start trying to have these kind of
• 33:33
  meetings where we just chat but we don't have the support angle.
• 33:36
  So that's all you guys, and if you want to advocate and we can
• 33:40
  kind of mix it up here, we're going to support each other
• 33:42
  because yeah, we definitely need more voices together.
• 33:45
  And don't be shy, you can DM me anytime.
• 33:48
  I love to chat and any time of day if you need help here.
• 33:52
  Oh, well, thank you so much and I appreciate that and for you
• 33:55
  being on. And like Anna said, you know, we
• 33:57
  do have our daily support services.
• 34:00
  So we have our support groups, our peer mentors, this podcast,
• 34:06
  individual trauma therapy, whatever anybody may need, we're
• 34:09
  here for you. And we're always with you, baby
• 34:12
  loss survivors. So please tune in and follow us
• 34:16
  so we can reach more of you. All right.
• 34:18
  Until next time. Thank you so much again, Anna.
• 34:21
  Hi. Thank you guys.
• 34:23
  Thank you.