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Crypto CLARITY Dead?🔥Aaron Day INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Let's break into the Clarity Act today. It's going to
0:02
Speaker 1: be an update. We're going to have a special guest
0:03
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0:44
Speaker 1: into it today before we bring on our guests, and
0:46
Speaker 1: I want to just remind everybody that the Senate Agbil
0:49
Speaker 1: has come out of its first phase and we'll start
0:53
Speaker 1: its way through into Markup, which is going to occur
0:57
Speaker 1: here just in a few days, and the likelihood of
1:00
Speaker 1: this being a bill that might make its way through
1:04
Speaker 1: and to the President's as could be a reality. And
1:06
Speaker 1: of course, right now we know the challenges that have
1:09
Speaker 1: faced the Clarity Act that of course continue to be challenges.
1:13
Speaker 1: And if you think about the challenges, well, here's the
1:15
Speaker 1: ABA's blueprint for growth for twenty six and beyond. And
1:20
Speaker 1: I love the point that they just go out and
1:23
Speaker 1: just say it, and that is protect local lending, stop
1:27
Speaker 1: payment stable coins from becoming deposit substitutes that slash community
1:32
Speaker 1: bank lending by prohibiting paying interest. You guys know my
1:36
Speaker 1: position on this. This is not about community banks. This
1:39
Speaker 1: is about the big banks. The community banks I think
1:41
Speaker 1: are being lopped into this as just a way to
1:44
Speaker 1: defend the banking industry when the reality is is that
1:47
Speaker 1: you should be getting some side yield on your assets.
1:50
Speaker 1: Whether they're privately held or whether you're going through central
1:53
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, but getting that done all right. So one
1:56
Speaker 1: thing I want to hit on right here was an
1:57
Speaker 1: American banker, This of course is their lobby. I shouldn't
2:01
Speaker 1: say this is the lobby arm, but it is one
2:03
Speaker 1: of and I call this kind of the misinformation of
2:06
Speaker 1: what's happening from the lobby, because remember this is one
2:08
Speaker 1: of the largest lobbies out there and.
2:09
Speaker 2: The oldest NDC.
2:12
Speaker 1: And what they did here was a statement around banks,
2:14
Speaker 1: consumer groups all pushing back against Staplecoyn Yield. The idea
2:18
Speaker 1: on the consumer groups was the fact that we're getting
2:20
Speaker 1: into credit unions. That's the idea of consumers pushing back
2:23
Speaker 1: against that. So the point being is is they have
2:26
Speaker 1: a good, formidable position. They continue to drive into the
2:31
Speaker 1: United States, and I think the real question is is
2:34
Speaker 1: how does this play out in the next few months,
2:36
Speaker 1: because I think we're going to be facing a couple
2:38
Speaker 1: of months here, especially with all the delays. Here was
2:41
Speaker 1: Aaron Day and he will be our guest today, and
2:44
Speaker 1: of course he has put this together in the sense
2:47
Speaker 1: of and I would say he's probably one of the
2:49
Speaker 1: voices out there that has been against this for some time.
2:52
Speaker 2: When Clarity first came through.
2:54
Speaker 1: Remember the first version of Clarity before it hit the Senate,
2:58
Speaker 1: which had at one hundred and thirty plus amendments tied
3:00
Speaker 1: to it, all of which started attacking the key vectors
3:03
Speaker 1: of what we thought were good things in the Clarity Act,
3:07
Speaker 1: of course changed quite a bit, but he has been
3:10
Speaker 1: pushing back on this for quite some time. So one
3:13
Speaker 1: of the things that we looked at was how does
3:15
Speaker 1: this send an AG bill compare to the Clarity bill
3:18
Speaker 1: when when you put the three elements of concern into
3:23
Speaker 1: just ai in the principal side of things, and I'll
3:26
Speaker 1: go right down to the chart to kind of show
3:28
Speaker 1: what it will and won't do in this new AG bill.
3:32
Speaker 1: Crypto rewards, so stable coin rewards is what we're talking about.
3:36
Speaker 1: The reality is that, no, it's not going to be
3:38
Speaker 1: violated in the current AG build that's coming out. Defiant
3:41
Speaker 1: self custody. No, not necessarily, depending on some of the
3:45
Speaker 1: way that interpretation is done on some of these protections.
3:49
Speaker 1: So good, but there's a slight risk. And then the
3:53
Speaker 1: BRCA alignment.
3:54
Speaker 2: No. So the idea of you know, developers.
3:58
Speaker 1: Being charged with crimes because they're developing on this not
4:01
Speaker 1: going to be happening, but watch out for future amendments
4:04
Speaker 1: would be the scenario that could play out of this.
4:06
Speaker 1: So in reality, this could be the bill that actually
4:10
Speaker 1: goes through and maybe get some traction here, because I
4:14
Speaker 1: don't think that Clarity is going to be one that
4:17
Speaker 1: makes it, so we wanted to bring on Aaron Day, who,
4:19
Speaker 1: of course has been talking about this for some time.
4:22
Speaker 2: Aaron, Welcome to the show.
4:24
Speaker 3: Hi Paul, thank you for having me on. I think
4:26
Speaker 3: this is a really important issue. That Genius Act is
4:30
Speaker 3: an important issue as well. I think these are actually
4:33
Speaker 3: both of them kind of combined, are worse than the
4:36
Speaker 3: Patriot Act in terms of surveillance that are added. So
4:41
Speaker 3: I probably have a slightly different perspective on this than most,
4:45
Speaker 3: but happy to get into it. And by the way,
4:48
Speaker 3: I want to preface this by saying I'm putting out
4:50
Speaker 3: an article about this through the Brownstone Institute next week.
4:54
Speaker 3: I have a draft in front of you right now.
4:56
Speaker 3: It's about eighty pages long. Obviously I'm going to try
4:58
Speaker 3: to pair that out a bit. But this, unfortunately, most
5:04
Speaker 3: of the media on this issue has been completely one
5:08
Speaker 3: sided and very pro getting something done one way or
5:12
Speaker 3: the other. There I haven't been too many voices that
5:14
Speaker 3: have been calling out surveillance or even the need for
5:17
Speaker 3: any of it to begin with.
5:20
Speaker 1: Well, the privacy issue that we saw in the Amendment
5:23
Speaker 1: changes were one of the biggest things that kind of
5:25
Speaker 1: raised the flag for us to kind of go in
5:27
Speaker 1: and start getting interviews on this, and we've had several
5:31
Speaker 1: on that have been at least I won't say pro coinbase,
5:34
Speaker 1: but pro on the stance of pushing back in the
5:37
Speaker 1: sense of where these changes are basically positioning up the banks.
5:42
Speaker 1: Is really getting an angle on where crypto is going
5:45
Speaker 1: when you look at the current Clarity Act as it is,
5:48
Speaker 1: and likely we're going to see all kinds of changes
5:50
Speaker 1: coming out this. Would you agree that those three points
5:54
Speaker 1: are the key ones in terms of yields, privacy, and
5:57
Speaker 1: of course the DeFi components of it.
6:00
Speaker 3: Well, I think the bigger issue is why do we
6:03
Speaker 3: need market structure provided by Congress at all? I'm not
6:07
Speaker 3: even entirely sure what the necessity for this is. Like
6:11
Speaker 3: the fact is we've had self custody in crypto for
6:14
Speaker 3: sixteen years, the fact that we're now sitting here saying, well, hey,
6:17
Speaker 3: maybe this bill might allow self custody under a whole
6:21
Speaker 3: long series of circumstances. I don't know why we are
6:25
Speaker 3: from the beginning saying that this legislation is necessary or good.
6:29
Speaker 3: And I also don't understand why we're at this point
6:32
Speaker 3: where it's coinbase as a representative of all of crypto
6:36
Speaker 3: versus the bankers, when in reality, this legislation provides a
6:42
Speaker 3: legislative mode that protects Coinbase. So I look at this
6:46
Speaker 3: more as one large centralized exchange trying to get a
6:51
Speaker 3: seat at the table with the bankers, not all of
6:54
Speaker 3: crypto and the promise of crypto versus the traditional banking system.
7:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I would agree in the sense that, first
7:03
Speaker 1: of all, I mean, when we look at it, we're
7:04
Speaker 1: not citing in the sense of being on coinbase side.
7:07
Speaker 1: But what they have done is it's kind of positioned.
7:10
Speaker 1: A lot of the people we talk to saying, and
7:12
Speaker 1: we're for the ideas that are coming out of this,
7:15
Speaker 1: maybe not necessarily the idea of what Coinbase is trying
7:17
Speaker 1: to do, because obviously Coinbase has a dog in the hunt.
7:20
Speaker 1: They're going to have benefits to this to your point
7:23
Speaker 1: right there, as they're looking at a seat at the table.
7:26
Speaker 1: But the real question is is the banking I want
7:28
Speaker 1: to go back to the point you were making though
7:31
Speaker 1: about do we need it?
7:32
Speaker 2: I think obviously we've seen.
7:33
Speaker 1: Lawsuit after lawsuit, a very active SEC that mostly was
7:37
Speaker 1: active due to the fact that we didn't have much
7:39
Speaker 1: clarity in terms of what is protected what isn't protected
7:42
Speaker 1: that I think is the bigger picture here. Do you
7:45
Speaker 1: not think there is some sort of regulation that should
7:48
Speaker 1: be in play here to protect a lot of this
7:50
Speaker 1: new innovation that's coming forward.
7:53
Speaker 3: Well, I think what we should be doing is repealing
7:56
Speaker 3: the nineteen seventy Bank Secrecy Act, not adding additional layers
8:00
Speaker 3: of surveillance. And you know, I think I take a
8:03
Speaker 3: little bit of issue of the fact that let's look
8:04
Speaker 3: at Congress's track record when it comes to structuring markets.
8:08
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a group of people that have
8:11
Speaker 3: racked up forty trillion dollars worth of debt. Congress has
8:14
Speaker 3: the power of the purse, and the value of the
8:17
Speaker 3: dollar is down ninety six percent since the Federal Reserve
8:20
Speaker 3: Act was passed. This is a group of people that
8:23
Speaker 3: has protected Epstein and has a slush fund to protect
8:26
Speaker 3: themselves from sexual harassment claims. Why is it that we
8:29
Speaker 3: think that this group has the best intentions of the
8:34
Speaker 3: people in mind? Who do we think it is that
8:36
Speaker 3: they're protecting it? I'm not being hyperbolic about this, because
8:38
Speaker 3: when I talk about the Bank Secrecy Act, I mean
8:41
Speaker 3: we all have to deal with the Bank Secrecy Act.
8:43
Speaker 3: Anybody that I mean, this is the source of Know
8:46
Speaker 3: your customer anti money laundering laws. Well, let's you know,
8:50
Speaker 3: let's take a look at the history of how that's worked. Right.
8:54
Speaker 3: This is there's sixty billion dollars a year spent on
8:58
Speaker 3: compliance costs with the Bank Secrecy Act. And when you
9:03
Speaker 3: dig into this, you have all these suspicious activity reports.
9:08
Speaker 3: So anytime anybody does a transaction more than ten thousand dollars,
9:12
Speaker 3: a report goes to treasure. Well, when you dig into this,
9:15
Speaker 3: it turns out only three or four percent of those
9:18
Speaker 3: get investigated, and it's been found that ninety five percent
9:22
Speaker 3: of those are people who are in fact innocent, but
9:25
Speaker 3: then get labeled and essentially harassed dealing with the banking system. Meanwhile,
9:30
Speaker 3: companies like Jakovia and JP, Morgan Chase and others have
9:35
Speaker 3: been found to have violated this in an egregious way,
9:39
Speaker 3: working with cartels and everything. I mean, I'm not speaking
9:41
Speaker 3: out of school. All this is public information and no
9:44
Speaker 3: one's gone to jail. It's just been factored in as
9:46
Speaker 3: a cost of doing business. So before we ask the
9:49
Speaker 3: Congress to start looking at providing market structure, why don't
9:54
Speaker 3: we look at the track record of the structures that
9:57
Speaker 3: they've already put in place, what the cost to ben
10:01
Speaker 3: and what the effect has been. And when you do that,
10:03
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here saying, why in a million years would
10:07
Speaker 3: we think that these people are going to help protect
10:10
Speaker 3: consumers or add any improvement to the market at all.
10:14
Speaker 3: That's my starting point. So I don't think any of
10:17
Speaker 3: this is I don't think any of this is necessary
10:20
Speaker 3: or helpful. But then when you dig into it, when
10:23
Speaker 3: you look at the amount of lobbying, it's not just
10:25
Speaker 3: the bankers that are lobbying. The crypto industry is spent
10:28
Speaker 3: over twenty million dollars lobbyists. And if you look at
10:32
Speaker 3: who the beneficiaries are of this legislation, it's not the
10:38
Speaker 3: little guy. And in the end, it's not even DeFi
10:41
Speaker 3: when you dig into what the requirements are for being
10:45
Speaker 3: classified as DeFi. The winners in this are going to
10:48
Speaker 3: be the banks, They're going to be the custodians, They're
10:51
Speaker 3: going to be one or two large crypto exchanges. It's
10:54
Speaker 3: going to be circle. It's not going to help innovation.
10:58
Speaker 3: It's going to protect the incumbent crypto players and the
11:03
Speaker 3: incumbent banking cartel. So, like I said, I've got eighty
11:08
Speaker 3: pages right now on this to kind of break through
11:10
Speaker 3: all of it. I'm not going to go through all
11:11
Speaker 3: of it necessarily in detail now, but I'm not seeing
11:14
Speaker 3: I'm not seeing the excitement here. We're talking about real
11:16
Speaker 3: time trade surveillance. We're talking about five year transaction records.
11:21
Speaker 3: We're talking about data sharing agreements with foreign governments, emergency
11:25
Speaker 3: freeze and liquidation powers, and basically universal registration requirements, so
11:31
Speaker 3: all exchanges, brokers, dealers, and associated persons must register. Why
11:36
Speaker 3: would we assume that this is this is a good thing.
11:39
Speaker 3: When did we decide that we don't have privacy in
11:42
Speaker 3: our financial transactions?
11:45
Speaker 1: Well, I'm in agreement with that, because those are all
11:48
Speaker 1: parts of the clarity that we're kind of outlined obviously
11:50
Speaker 1: through the Senate markup that really kind of got us
11:53
Speaker 1: charged up about it. The Defive Education Fund is reviewing
11:57
Speaker 1: it right now. They I would agree. I've talked to
12:00
Speaker 1: Amanda a couple of times she's been on our show.
12:03
Speaker 1: I feel like they are truly trying to protect DeFi.
12:07
Speaker 1: And of course this is just some sections out of
12:09
Speaker 1: the setup here, and it's primarily Section two O seven,
12:12
Speaker 1: which is the software developer protections that we were most
12:16
Speaker 1: concerned with. And I say we meaning the DeFi. Anybody
12:18
Speaker 1: that's for DeFi protecting that and if they were to
12:22
Speaker 1: come through this, Aaron, if let's say the DeFi Education
12:25
Speaker 1: Fund came through this small organization in DC goes through this,
12:30
Speaker 1: their attorneys say, yeah, this new Senate ad this has
12:33
Speaker 1: got some protections for DeFi and there's some structure here
12:37
Speaker 1: that could get.
12:38
Speaker 2: Us going forward. Would you be in favor of that
12:41
Speaker 2: or still no?
12:43
Speaker 3: I would first start by saying, I want somebody to
12:47
Speaker 3: demonstrate to me a bill that started out with protective
12:50
Speaker 3: provisions where there wasn't scope creep. I want to start
12:53
Speaker 3: by asking, why do you think that if they put
12:56
Speaker 3: something in to get this bill passed, that it will
12:59
Speaker 3: retain its characteristics? In other words, what is the integrity historically?
13:04
Speaker 3: Do the analysis part. I've spent a lot of time
13:07
Speaker 3: and politics and political activism, and so what I'm encouraging
13:11
Speaker 3: people to do is do the research on whether you think,
13:15
Speaker 3: once this bill is passed, it's going to remain at
13:19
Speaker 3: the level of surveillance and regulatory oversight that it has now,
13:27
Speaker 3: or is it going to become less regulated, or is
13:30
Speaker 3: it going to become more regulated. And I think when
13:32
Speaker 3: you do that analysis, because I'm looking for a counter example,
13:35
Speaker 3: I have not yet been able to find a counter example.
13:38
Speaker 3: It only goes in one direction. So whatever is put
13:40
Speaker 3: in place now will only get worse. And what you're
13:43
Speaker 3: giving them is an infrastructure on which they can build
13:46
Speaker 3: an increased scope. But just to give you a few
13:48
Speaker 3: examples on this, the income tax was initially one percent
13:52
Speaker 3: and it was only on the rich. When the sixteenth
13:54
Speaker 3: Amendment was passed, within five years rates hit seventy seven percent.
13:59
Speaker 3: Social Secure was never to be used for identification when
14:03
Speaker 3: created in nineteen thirty six, and by the nineteen sixties
14:06
Speaker 3: they were required for bank accounts. The Patriot Act was
14:09
Speaker 3: only for foreign terrorists when it was signed in October
14:12
Speaker 3: of twenty two thousand and one, and by two thousand
14:16
Speaker 3: and three we learned that we had sneak and peak
14:18
Speaker 3: warrants at being used in domestic drug cases, and it's
14:21
Speaker 3: only expanded from there the Bank Secrecy Act. By the way,
14:24
Speaker 3: the ten thousand dollars reporting threshold was set in nineteen seventy,
14:28
Speaker 3: so if you put that into modern day terms, that
14:32
Speaker 3: would be the equivalent of eighty thousand dollars. Right, So
14:36
Speaker 3: most financial transactions were not being reported under this Bank
14:41
Speaker 3: Secrecy Act when it was passed in nineteen seventy. Did
14:44
Speaker 3: you know not only is there an automatic ten thousand
14:48
Speaker 3: dollars reporting requirement, but just four or five months ago
14:51
Speaker 3: the Trump administration, the Treasury Department issued a letter. They
14:54
Speaker 3: didn't pass a law, they issued a memo that said,
14:58
Speaker 3: in thirty zip codes in calif in Texas, the threshold
15:02
Speaker 3: was dropped from ten thousand dollars to two hundred dollars,
15:05
Speaker 3: Meaning just by issuing a memo they can add that
15:08
Speaker 3: much layer of financial surveillance. So I'm encouraging everyone who
15:13
Speaker 3: is looking at this bill and seriously considering it to
15:16
Speaker 3: study the history of bills and regulations and the extent
15:20
Speaker 3: to which they remain at the level when they're passed,
15:23
Speaker 3: or whether they get more burdensome or left burdensome. And
15:26
Speaker 3: when you do that research on your own, you will
15:28
Speaker 3: come to the conclusion that I've come to, which is
15:31
Speaker 3: that we do not need to pass this bill in
15:34
Speaker 3: any form, and we need to be questioned in Congress
15:37
Speaker 3: and examining the onerous surveillance that we already have through
15:41
Speaker 3: your agreement with your banks. Your banks are already sharing
15:44
Speaker 3: information with the irs using AI. I've identified thirteen different
15:49
Speaker 3: ways of which the American people have their financial transactions
15:52
Speaker 3: already surveilled. It's already burdensome. There's no problem that they're
15:57
Speaker 3: trying to solve, and their use seeing things like, well,
16:01
Speaker 3: we need to get something done, we need some sort
16:03
Speaker 3: of structure, and now we're at the end that it's
16:05
Speaker 3: just lobbyists carving up more of the pie, adding more surveillance,
16:08
Speaker 3: adding more barriers, and ultimately cutting out other innovation. This
16:12
Speaker 3: will end up killing DeFi. If it doesn't right away,
16:16
Speaker 3: it will six months down the line or whatever. This
16:19
Speaker 3: gets revisited, if it even needs to be revisited by law,
16:22
Speaker 3: they may be able to take the framework put together
16:25
Speaker 3: here and simply change a rule to crush DeFi. And
16:28
Speaker 3: I'll explore that in my article as well.
16:31
Speaker 1: What you're saying is there should be zero, absolutely no regulation,
16:35
Speaker 1: and actually go back and look at the Bank Secrecy
16:38
Speaker 1: Act really from a basis before we even get into
16:42
Speaker 1: things like this.
16:43
Speaker 3: Well, even more than that, I don't know why we
16:45
Speaker 3: have to assume or accept that there should be regulation.
16:49
Speaker 3: A lot of times people in America. Don't that we
16:52
Speaker 3: have this opinion that we're the freest country and we
16:54
Speaker 3: have the most innovation. None of that's objectively true. The
16:56
Speaker 3: only categories at the US ranks number one in are
16:59
Speaker 3: to spending, an incarceration rate. We're not leading an innovation
17:03
Speaker 3: that that's all propaganda. But let's go back to the
17:06
Speaker 3: whole issue of you know, when tokenization started to butt
17:10
Speaker 3: up with the SEC. We have a fundamental problem with
17:12
Speaker 3: the SEC. The SEC. These laws from the SEC regulating
17:17
Speaker 3: securities go back to the nineteen thirties. These are FDR
17:20
Speaker 3: era regulations and rules. Well, I mean, and I'm a
17:24
Speaker 3: serial entrepreneur. I started my first company in nineteen ninety five.
17:27
Speaker 3: I've raised millions of dollars from angel investors. And the
17:32
Speaker 3: process of the legal work that has involved the legal documentation,
17:37
Speaker 3: all of the investor questionnaires. Limiting who can even invest
17:40
Speaker 3: in startups based on all these criteria absolutely chokes small
17:45
Speaker 3: business and chokes innovation. So we shouldn't be talking about
17:49
Speaker 3: should we expand the powers of the SEC, which is
17:52
Speaker 3: in essence what the Senate Finance Bill is about. Should
17:56
Speaker 3: we be expanding that role of the SEC to include tokens.
18:00
Speaker 3: We should be examining why it's so expensive encumbersome to
18:04
Speaker 3: even start a business, whether you're issuing shares in a
18:07
Speaker 3: paper format or a token. So the problems here if
18:10
Speaker 3: people are sitting here talking about things like we want
18:13
Speaker 3: America to lead in innovation, we want to lead America
18:16
Speaker 3: to lead in crypto, start by repealing some of the
18:19
Speaker 3: securities laws from the nineteen thirties. Start by repealing the
18:22
Speaker 3: Bank Secrecy Act. We do not need added regulation, and
18:26
Speaker 3: these regulations will not America will not be a dominant
18:30
Speaker 3: player because of added regulations. There are already many countries
18:34
Speaker 3: around the world that are much more hospitable for innovators
18:39
Speaker 3: in the crypto space in the United States. This is
18:40
Speaker 3: only going to make it worse.
18:42
Speaker 1: Let me go through a couple of questions with you.
18:44
Speaker 1: This is kind of just a queue of questions. I
18:46
Speaker 1: don't think I have to ask this first one. Which
18:49
Speaker 1: one of these would you think is going to do better.
18:52
Speaker 1: You're going to say zero. Neither need to be even
18:56
Speaker 1: looked at in terms of the Clarity Act or the DCIA.
18:59
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go with the d c I a though,
19:02
Speaker 1: But you're saying no regulation at all at this point.
19:07
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying no regulation and repeal the Bank Secrecy
19:10
Speaker 3: Act and then go and start looking at the CFTC
19:12
Speaker 3: and SEC if we're really serious about innovating, let's be serious.
19:17
Speaker 3: All right.
19:17
Speaker 1: Well, the next question is who's who should determine centralization standards?
19:23
Speaker 2: Congress or no one? Yeah, all right, so you're down
19:27
Speaker 2: in the middle.
19:27
Speaker 1: I'm kind of you're not getting any answers here from Aaron.
19:31
Speaker 2: Should crypto?
19:32
Speaker 1: Should a crypto bill be expected to overturn BSA? The
19:37
Speaker 1: Bank Secrecy Act?
19:39
Speaker 3: Should should one be expected?
19:43
Speaker 2: Yeah?
19:43
Speaker 3: Meaning you do I think it's going to happen?
19:46
Speaker 2: Yeah? Do you think one?
19:48
Speaker 3: Well, not at this not at this point in time.
19:50
Speaker 3: But what I think needs to happen is we need
19:53
Speaker 3: to rally people. This is why I'm writing such an
19:55
Speaker 3: extensive article because I don't think people understand the Bank
19:59
Speaker 3: Secrecy Act, what it does, how intrusive it is, and
20:02
Speaker 3: how ineffective it has been at its stated goal. So
20:06
Speaker 3: we need to you know, this is why this stuff's
20:08
Speaker 3: a lot of long form. But we need to go
20:10
Speaker 3: back to first principles, and we need to go back
20:12
Speaker 3: to looking at We need to strike the route here
20:15
Speaker 3: at where we went wrong because we're not protecting people
20:18
Speaker 3: from terrorism, and we're not protecting investors, and we're not
20:21
Speaker 3: stopping money wandering because of the Bank Secrecy Act any
20:25
Speaker 3: more than we're going to protect innovation or DeFi through
20:28
Speaker 3: the Clarity Act.
20:31
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, So in my opinion, when you look
20:36
Speaker 1: at this, I understand where you're coming from. But you
20:38
Speaker 1: look at a crypto bill, I think, yeah, you could
20:41
Speaker 1: get a crypto bill that could be expected to overturn BSA,
20:45
Speaker 1: which would get away from that.
20:47
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
20:49
Speaker 1: I'm on the fence on this one as well. You're
20:51
Speaker 1: saying absolutely not, absolutely not.
20:54
Speaker 3: Well, I'm saying, let me say this, of the twenty
20:58
Speaker 3: two million dollars that's being spent by crypto lobbyists and
21:00
Speaker 3: the whatever, fifty to seventy million dollars, it's been spent
21:04
Speaker 3: spent by the banking who's advocating for the repeal of
21:08
Speaker 3: the Bank Secrecy Act, because as you know, Congress doesn't right.
21:12
Speaker 3: Coin Center wrote the Genius Act that none of these
21:15
Speaker 3: politicians write any of this stuff. So this is all
21:18
Speaker 3: being paid for by two thousand dollars an hour lawyers
21:21
Speaker 3: who's funding the repeal of the Bank Secrecy Act.
21:25
Speaker 2: YEAP, which is not happening. Yeah, you're exactly right.
21:29
Speaker 1: Okay, passing a DeFi crypto bill will open the door
21:33
Speaker 1: to making accredited investors obsolete if we had if we
21:36
Speaker 1: had a DeFi structure. Wo did that open up the
21:39
Speaker 1: whole gambit for no more accredited investors?
21:45
Speaker 3: Certainly not in the way that they're going to do it,
21:46
Speaker 3: because all of this legislation is about adding more custodians
21:50
Speaker 3: and more registration, and I'm sure that they would put
21:54
Speaker 3: things in there that would restrict I'm not seeing any
21:57
Speaker 3: part of the bill that's going to open things up
21:59
Speaker 3: to to non accredited investors. I mean, again, DeFi can
22:04
Speaker 3: work now. I'm not seeing what freedom and privacy aspects
22:08
Speaker 3: are going to come out in this bill. It's only
22:10
Speaker 3: going to make it worse. And the theory that people
22:12
Speaker 3: are saying is well, it's going to make the rules clear. Well,
22:15
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think imposing the surveillance state and
22:18
Speaker 3: crushing innovation for the sake of clarity is a good
22:22
Speaker 3: trade off.
22:23
Speaker 1: Interesting, I don't guess that would answer this question. Then.
22:27
Speaker 1: In terms of stable coins, I mean, because we already
22:29
Speaker 1: know stable coins are freezible even though they weren't supposed
22:32
Speaker 1: to be.
22:33
Speaker 2: Now we have seen that's already happen.
22:35
Speaker 1: But as long as they provide in some of this
22:37
Speaker 1: regulation a way for you to exit into all coins,
22:40
Speaker 1: because you could exit into a narrow or ze cash
22:42
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to go into if you decided
22:44
Speaker 1: to go that direction, doould people just ultimately not care
22:49
Speaker 1: because it appears that there's so much movement in this
22:53
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of the population that just seem
22:57
Speaker 1: to not care about this right now that this is
23:00
Speaker 1: going this direction in terms of the ability to freeze assets.
23:05
Speaker 3: So I don't blame people for not knowing about this.
23:08
Speaker 3: I was actually just at a meeting with somebody who's
23:10
Speaker 3: pretty pretty well known in economics, and he's actually given
23:14
Speaker 3: talks all around the world in front of tens of
23:16
Speaker 3: thousands of people, and he's asked people when he does
23:18
Speaker 3: these surveys if they know how money works. And the
23:21
Speaker 3: truth of the matter is that we're not taught in
23:23
Speaker 3: school how money works. People aren't reading g. Edward Griffin.
23:26
Speaker 3: People don't actually know how money works. I've experienced this
23:28
Speaker 3: as well with my books and my workshops. People don't
23:31
Speaker 3: have an educational background on this, but once they become
23:35
Speaker 3: aware of it, they find it to be important. One
23:38
Speaker 3: of the challenges that I have, and this is one
23:40
Speaker 3: of the things that came out of the article that
23:42
Speaker 3: I'm writing, is that I always I've wondered why I'm
23:45
Speaker 3: one of the lone voices out there who has been
23:48
Speaker 3: completely against these bills, and that, by the way, even
23:51
Speaker 3: includes the crypto community, because I will see these articles
23:56
Speaker 3: come out and from the crypto community, and these cryptocommunity
24:00
Speaker 3: articles are all, you know, pro the bill, and I'm like,
24:03
Speaker 3: why does that happen? And so I dug into the
24:05
Speaker 3: research and it turns out almost one hundred percent of
24:09
Speaker 3: the articles you look at coin Telegraph or whatever it
24:12
Speaker 3: happens to be. I've got a list here, I can't
24:14
Speaker 3: find it right now, but it'll be in the article.
24:16
Speaker 3: One hundred percent of the article are pro the legislation. Well,
24:19
Speaker 3: you find out that the companies that own the publications
24:23
Speaker 3: are beneficiaries of the legislation. I can't remember which one
24:26
Speaker 3: it was that you know, Digital Currency Group is the
24:30
Speaker 3: main owner of one of these publications, And so one
24:32
Speaker 3: hundred percent of the publications are pro these bills and
24:35
Speaker 3: DCG benefits from At the end, well, you keep on
24:38
Speaker 3: going through and you look at these crypto publications, you're
24:41
Speaker 3: not getting objective journalism. Nobody's hearing the other side. I'm
24:45
Speaker 3: grateful that you're having me on here today to talk
24:48
Speaker 3: about this, because there aren't many many outlets to even
24:51
Speaker 3: have this kind of conversation, and there aren't many people.
24:54
Speaker 3: But it's probably because there's seventy million dollars that's being
24:58
Speaker 3: spent by lobbyists to push for these bills. Nobody's paying
25:01
Speaker 3: me to oppose these bills. There's no money in it.
25:04
Speaker 3: So you have a massive machine with media, that cryptomedia
25:09
Speaker 3: that's aligned with wanting the outcome of this because they
25:13
Speaker 3: directly benefit and you don't have the resources. And then
25:17
Speaker 3: beyond that, who would even know about it? How would
25:19
Speaker 3: the general public even know what's going on. They're hearing
25:22
Speaker 3: the tagline of these bills, they're hearing this is going
25:25
Speaker 3: to be great, America is going to lead in crypto.
25:28
Speaker 3: They're not even exposed to any of these ideas or
25:32
Speaker 3: in depth analysis of the legislation itself.
25:35
Speaker 1: Well, I think the concern I have is that the
25:38
Speaker 1: touch points that have been so aggressive by the banking
25:40
Speaker 1: side of things.
25:43
Speaker 2: That it might be a ploy.
25:44
Speaker 1: I mean, we could be dealing with something where it's
25:46
Speaker 1: a negotiation tactic. They go for the gusto up front
25:50
Speaker 1: and get as much as you can, realizing that you're
25:52
Speaker 1: going to backfall into a negotiated position or a settlement
25:56
Speaker 1: that still would be to their benefit, but look to
25:59
Speaker 1: be a lot better for the crypto community. That's the
26:02
Speaker 1: concern I'm seeing right now. My last question to you
26:05
Speaker 1: is this, which entity is worse for crypto right now?
26:09
Speaker 1: Banks or tech billionaires?
26:13
Speaker 3: I can't. To me, it's a talk to me there
26:16
Speaker 3: literally to me there. To me, it's the same thing.
26:20
Speaker 3: What you're seeing is theater. When you see Brian Armstrong
26:22
Speaker 3: at DeVos, he's not sitting there defending DeFi. He's not
26:26
Speaker 3: sitting there. Look at the legislation. He benefits from the legislation.
26:30
Speaker 3: This legislation protects coinbase and makes it harder for somebody
26:34
Speaker 3: else to start at crypto exchange. That is not pro innovation.
26:38
Speaker 3: I view, what he's doing is trying to get a
26:40
Speaker 3: seat at the table. He wants to be a part
26:41
Speaker 3: of DeVos. He doesn't want to blow it up. And
26:43
Speaker 3: what I got into bitcoin in twenty twelve. And you
26:46
Speaker 3: know when in the early days in bitcoin, when you
26:49
Speaker 3: would go to conferences, people were talking about things like, hey,
26:53
Speaker 3: this is an opportunity to separate money in state. And
26:55
Speaker 3: you know, we just came off of the financial crisis
26:57
Speaker 3: where even politically the right in the life left were
27:00
Speaker 3: against the banks, they were against the bailouts, and so
27:03
Speaker 3: we went from a period of time where in these
27:05
Speaker 3: conferences people looked at central bankers with disgust. Now I
27:09
Speaker 3: look at Armstrong and some of these crypto billionaires and
27:12
Speaker 3: I realized it wasn't discussed. It was envy. They just
27:14
Speaker 3: want to have a seat at the table. So I
27:16
Speaker 3: don't view them as a different thing to even pick
27:19
Speaker 3: a side. Now, obviously when you say tech billionaires, there
27:22
Speaker 3: are there's a continuum of tech billionaires. But the ones
27:25
Speaker 3: that we're talking about that are pushing legislation, the ones
27:27
Speaker 3: that we're talking about that are in the administration, are
27:30
Speaker 3: pushing more of a technocratic agenda than a pro freedom agenda.
27:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look at it in the sense that tech
27:36
Speaker 1: billionaires are the ultimate winners on this because of the
27:39
Speaker 1: platforms they're building, the banks will eventually be basically just ruled,
27:43
Speaker 1: they'll be like old internet technology that just won't exist
27:47
Speaker 1: anymore once tokenization truly gets out there.
27:49
Speaker 2: So this is going to be.
27:50
Speaker 3: Well, I would well, I will make this bet. If
27:54
Speaker 3: this legislation actually successful and happens, then what you're going
27:59
Speaker 3: to find as coinbase will end up being owned by
28:02
Speaker 3: JP Morgan, Chaser, black Rock, We're going to end up
28:04
Speaker 3: with the same banks that it's going to be indistinguishable.
28:08
Speaker 3: That's where this are going. This is the level of
28:10
Speaker 3: capture coming out of this legislation.
28:12
Speaker 1: There you have it, Aaron Day, Thank you so much
28:15
Speaker 1: for coming in today. We appreciate your insights.
28:18
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.
28:26
Speaker 1: If you like this video, like and subscribe, drop a
28:29
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28:32
Speaker 2: The link is in the description.