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Kareem Rosser’s Ride of a Lifetime · Sports In America with David Greene

• [MUSIC] DAVID GREENE, HOST: The sport of polo has a certain…reputation. Say the word and most people picture the same scene: a large, perfect lawn, a row of gleaming horses, and a crowd dressed to the nines that looks like it arrived by private invitation only. BROADCASTER: The best horses and the best players in the world compete here, and they attract a class of spectator in keeping the best status. DG: Because of that, people assume they already know the story. Polo belongs to old money, old families, old rules. If you didn’t grow up in a house with a stable out back, well, you probably weren’t supposed to end up on the field. BROADCASTER: The game was then the exclusive preserve of serving officers and the landed gentry, both with time and money on their hands. DG: Kareem Rosser didn’t come from the world polo markets itself to. He didn’t come from the British countryside or from the circles that claim the sport as their birthright. And instead of being told the sport was his inheritance, he was told — more than once — that he didn’t belong. And then he became the best American player of his generation. [THEME MUSIC] DG: Today, we’re talking to U.S. Polo champion Kareem Rosser, whose story challenges every assumption you might have about privilege, about grit, and what it means to break barriers. KAREEM ROSSER: These were kids that were a few years older than us, much better, better resources. But, that we didn't care, we just wanted to really be the best you gotta beat the best and you gotta compete with the best. DG: Kareem grew up in West Philadelphia in a neighborhood he and his friends called ‘The Bottom,’ which has a history of violence and poverty. Thanks to an unlikely lifeline - this chance discovery of a small horse stable tucked away in a city park — Kareem found a passion for polo. A sport typically reserved for the elite. He didn’t just learn the game — he mastered it, captaining the first all-Black team to win a national interscholastic polo championship. In this conversation, we learn all about the sport of competitive polo, which is sort of like a mashup of ice hockey and NASCAR. Kareem opens up about the whiplash he felt of traveling from “The Bottom” to the Hamptons and back in a weekend, and the way he now uses tragedy to drive his passion to help others. I was hoping we could start by talking about childhood. KR: Yeah. DG: And growing up in West Philly. KR: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. DG: Can you take me there? What It felt like? What the neighborhood was like?. KR: Yeah. So I'm from a place in West Philly called “The Bottom.” It gets its name for a reason. It's a pretty tough place in Philly to grow up. I think there are a lot of tough neighborhoods in Philadelphia, but “The Bottom,” you know, it's special to me, because that's where I was born and pretty much where a majority of my family lives. But, I mean, if you think of a really, of a typical, inner city Philadelphia neighborhood, you know, places like North Philly, Southwest, West Philly, row homes, lots of families, I would say a lot of poverty, a lot of people struggling. Homes really that aren't in great shape. Streets that are, you know, filled with potholes. You know, and so, yeah, it was a place that had a lot of struggle, but it was a place that raised and shaped me. It's a place that's still very much close to my heart. I still have a lot of family that's still there. It's a place I try to visit frequently. But, yeah, it's a place that also still needs a lot of help. DG:. It sounds like I hear kind of reality in your voice, but also a sense of pride. Like this is the place that shaped me. People might look at it in a certain way, but it's home. KR: Yeah. It's home. You know, I had a chance to leave Philly forever and stay away. You know, for school, I went to Colorado State University. And, you know, I had a lot of great people eventually around me as I got older. Some advise me to stay away. Some folks, you know, always reminded me not to forget where I came from. And, I always, you know, I was that person that really never forgot where I came from. And, there's certainly a lot of pride. I mean, Philly is home. DG: So you're one of six, you said. You had five siblings? KR: Yes. DG: How many brothers? How many sisters? KR: So I have two sisters. I'm a twin. I have a twin sister, Kareema. And there were three other brothers. I come from a big family. Lots of cousins, lots of aunts, lots of uncles. You know, my mom, you know, my mom's home, when we grew up, there were more than six of us in the house at any given time. We always had at least like 4 or 5 cousins staying with us, where my grandma would sleep on the floor, my grandfather was visiting. So we had a I think it was a four-bedroom house, but at any given time, there are probably at least 12 people in there. DG: Big, big family. KR: Yeah. DG: And your mom? I mean, raising six kids, but also struggling a lot with addiction. How did she, how do you remember her finding some sort of balance or? KR: Yeah. No, for a really long time, my mom didn't really have a balance, you know? So, yeah, my mom pretty much struggled with addiction, all the way up until about six years ago. Five, six years ago. And, I recently learned more about my mom's addiction now that she's sober, and sharing with us some of the things that she was battling. But addiction is unfortunately very common in my family. You know, my grandmother was on crack and coke, and my aunts, my uncles, my cousins. So it was a very common thing. But, you know, I just remember as a kid, I would, you know, witness my mom snorting coke, or I would see my mom crack open a 40, you know, Olde English malt liquor, beer. And then when every time I would see her open that beer, I knew she was either high or just getting ready, about to get high. And so, as a young boy growing up, seeing my mom battling with addiction, it was something that was just a part of our life. I was aware of it, but it didn't necessarily really bother me at that time. It was just it was just routine. You know, my mom would show up from work, or come home from work, or go to work. My mom did everything that she was supposed to do as a productive human. So she was a functional addict. [MUSIC] DG: One way the Rosser kids would escape the pressures of the Bottom was to explore the city with their bikes. And on one fateful ride, Kareem’s brothers made a discovery that would change their lives forever. So, tell me about discovering the Chamounix stables. This is the first time that you first sort of relationship with horses. You're on a bike ride when you first saw this? KR: Yeah. So my brothers, David and Jabbar, they were always up to no good. Most times as young boys, like many of the kids growing up at “The Bottom,” you're trying to sometimes find trouble or just discover things. And, you know, we didn't have a curfew or any really rules at home. My mom just wanted to know where we were going at any given time, we would share with her. And most of them were telling her the truth where we were going. But my brothers were just out riding their bikes here in Philadelphia, Fairmount Park, and they took a wrong turn, and that wrong turn ended up being the best turn because they discovered, we in Philly, we say Shimoni. Most places they say Chamounix. DG: I'm going to say Shimoni now, Philly way. I don't want to sound all French. KR: Yeah. No. DG: Dubois, Pennsylvania, not Dubois like we Pennsylvanians. KR: Exactly. In Philly, we say Shimoni, but my brothers discovered the Chamounix Stable. They just took a wrong turn there riding their bikes. And they walked into the stables, met Leslie. DG: She's the founder, right? KR: Yeah. Leslie is the founder and executive director of Work to Ride. And, they discovered this barn full of horses and this incredible woman that just started this program, Work to Ride, which is a Philadelphia-based nonprofit that's been serving inner city kids now for 31 years. And Leslie handed them an application and said, “If you guys want to be a part of this program, take this application back home, get it signed, and we'll go from there.” But, you know, just a quick story. When our brother Jabbar walked into the stables, he, you know, walked up to one of the horse's stalls, and this horse was named Devil. And, Devil ended up grabbing Jabbar by the face. Bit Jabbar grabbed him by his face and lifted him over the stall. DG: What? KR: Yeah, yeah. DG: Wait. The horse bit your brother's face? KR: The horse bit my brother's face. Grabbed Jabbar by the face, threw him over their stall, and he had this massive gash on his face. So when he showed up, actually at home with the application, he had this gauze patch on his face, asking my mom to sign this application to join this program. DG: This is a great program. You get bitten by horses like? KR: Yeah, exactly. But my mom immediately knew that, she just had this instinct or intuition that this was it. This was the right thing for her to do, and to sign an application. And it completely changed our lives. DG: Work to Ride was a game changer. It gave kids from underserved communities the chance to learn how to ride horses and play polo— for free. In return, they’d help out around the stables with chores, which taught them responsibility and teamwork. For Kareem and his brothers, it was about much more than sports, though. The program gave them structure and community when they needed it most. But the real draw was the horses. DG: What was it like emotionally, mentally, to start interacting with horses and work at these tables that, like you said, changed your life? Like what was going on day by day? [MUSIC] KR: Yeah. So, believe it or not, I mean, I think people know a bit more now, especially since the movie Concrete Cowboys came out. Philly has this amazing, urban cowboy horse culture. There are a lot of horses in Philadelphia. Many of them are kept in people's backyards. DG: Yeah, this is not the image I feel like people have of Philly. KR: Yeah, not at all. And so as a kid, I would always see horses around town and, you know, so I would get excited when the horses were walking down the street, or they were passing by, and we were in the car. We were always just really excited. And then we also, as a family, just loved animals. We were always animal lovers. And so when I walked into the barn for the first time, I was afraid just because I was a small, scrawny, eight-year-old little boy, and then these 1,500-pound beasts that are surrounding me. But I also immediately felt like this instant relief. You know, I wasn't worried about the violence or really too concerned about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You know, some of the things I thought about when I was at home in West Philly. This place eventually became our home away from home. But when you're around the horses, especially these bigger horses, as a little boy, you're just you're really you're focused on that. You're focused on the animal. You're focused on the horse, and you really don't have time to think about anything else. So all your worries, and if you're, you know, anxious about something that's going on at home or something's going on in the neighborhood, you're just so present because this massive creature just commands your attention. And so, that was something I learned as I started to show up to the barn. I eventually realized that I was just so excited to be there. But I was also incredibly happy and not afraid of anything at that time, or not worried about anything I should say. I was certainly afraid of the horses. But over time, I eventually became comfortable, you know, with touching, walking, eventually riding, falling, getting back on all of those things. But being at this place was, it was just pure magic DG: And therapeutic. It sounds like KR: Very therapeutic. Very, very, I mean, you know, and at that time, I obviously didn't have the vocabulary. I didn't know anything about therapy or any of those things. It was, you know. Yeah. Just being around the horses, certainly, you know, put your mind at ease at any given moment when you were at the stables. DG: What is it about having a large 1,500-pound beast that, like, what is it in the relationship, the experience that makes it therapy? I mean, I get the, like the transportive nature of it to take you away from kind of your troubles and be in this place. But it sounds like there's something about this animal that. KR: Yeah. No, I think the other cool piece, especially for speaking from a child standpoint, you know, you have this massive creature that you're telling it what to do, and it's listening to you. Right? You're just a little kid. And, you know, think about trying to walk a dog, and sometimes a dog is walking you, right? Yeah, as a little kid, dragging you down the street. But then you have this massive horse, and you're leading it. And, you know, you're telling it to stop and to go and to put its head down. And then it's also showing you affection. Some of the things that you really, you know, I didn't realize later in life that I needed because my mom wasn't necessarily an affectionate person. [MUSIC] KR: My father was gone, absent. So all that sort of like TLC that, that you would seek from a parent or somewhere or sibling or someone else that wasn't necessarily getting at home, you were getting those things through the horse, DG: Like uncomplicated love. KR: This uncomplicated love that also had no strings attached to it. Right? DG: Right. KR: And so, I mean, these are all things now, I've later learned, and I can now articulate, but it's great because you're just connecting in this horse is also teaching you all these soft skills and all these hard skills, right? You know, it's, you know, we're mucking stalls, and we're feeding the horse, and the horse has an injury. And so we're, you know, tending to the injury and caring for the injury and helping a horse recover. So this is a responsibility piece to it, that's exciting, right? You know, I think about as a little kid when you get excited to do the dishes for the first time, then eventually it becomes a chore and you hate it, right? Right. So it's like the same thing. You're like, you have this responsibility, and you're like, I'm doing something. I have purpose, and so as a kid just feels great. It feels fulfilling. It, you know, hits on all these different emotional, I guess, emotional responses and things that you just didn't really know until you, until you did it. DG: Kareem’s willingness to try new things would pay off with the adventure of a lifetime. Coming up, we learn about the surprisingly brutal sport of polo and why Kareem embraced this unlikely path wholeheartedly. Welcome back to Sports in America. When Kareem Rosser and his brothers stumbled onto a stable in West Philadelphia, he had no idea that he would ride these very horses to a national collegiate championship in polo. So, through this place, you got very involved in polo. And I want to, I just want to lay it out on the table that I am not familiar with how the sport works, the mechanics. I think a lot of people are in the same boat with me. Can you give us, like, sort of just, you know, paint a quick picture of what the sport involves? KR: Yeah, so, polo, the best way to describe it is like ice hockey on horseback. [CHEERING, WHISTLE] [MUSIC] DG: Oh, that's helpful, okay. KR: And just think about the intensity of the game. The pace of the game. Hockey never really stops. You have guys who are, and girls, are switching on and off the ice. DG: It's a graceful, graceful flow. KR: It's a graceful flow. It's pretty. It's, you know, it can. I mean, it's also dangerous, but. So the best way to describe it is ice hockey on horseback. But when you think about the danger piece of it, a lot of folks compare it to NASCAR, in the sense that, you know, or in a way that, you know, an accident can happen, can be fatal. You're running on a horse at 35mph. It's a contact sport. So, like hockey players can check each other. Polo, you can also check each other. But it has to be done in a certain way. DG: But you're literally like, your horse can check another horse. KR: You're a horse. Literally. It's called the term we use in polo is called riding off or bumping players. They're normally parallel to each other, and they’re pushing each other to the side. But you can do that at speed. And so there's two types of polo, there's the traditional grass polo, which is played on sides of a field of ninth. The size of the field is nine football fields, so it's massive. The object of the game is to score as many goals as you can. There are four players on each team. You have two referees out there, and just to simply sort of explain the rules, one of the most common fouls in polo is called crossing the line. So every time someone hits the ball, there's this invisible infinite line that's created. And so if you think about driving on the highway or a four-lane highway before you cross over, you're going to signal an individual that you're going to because you don't want to cause an accident. In polo, both players have a right to this, to the ball, into this line, this invisible line that's respected. So when you're going really fast, you can't just cross this line because you’ll cause an accident, and it's very dangerous. So, how you engage or contact another player is a special way to do that. And then you have arena polo, which happens in an enclosed area, which I spent a lot of time playing. I’ve played both arena and grass. I guess the other piece to add is you have, obviously, horses are involved. At the highest level, you’ll have about 10 to 12 horses per player, so sometimes... DG: Each player has 10 to 12 horses? KR: Each player is about 10 to 12 horses. DG: Are you switching out to a different horse through the whole? KR: So, like, where the sort of ice hockey comparison comes in, it's like, yeah, you have and the NASCAR pieces, you have horses that are on the sidelines. So during the match, a player will run to the sideline, jump off one horse to jump on another, while the game is still going. DG: Wow. KR: So there's this intense piece to it. So I also, again, I want to make sure I really emphasize this, that this is happening at the highest level. You can get away with playing a game with about six horses or so, but when you're playing with the best at the highest level, the horses are going incredibly fast. They're incredible athletes. The game is very intense. The training that is involved they’re no different than NFL player or an NBA player. The treatment that the horses are receiving, you know, they have a training, it’s not a training room, but there's a training area in the barn where the horses are receiving treatment of those things. So the game it's an incredible game. It's a beautiful game. But also, it's very intense. DG: How do you deal with kind of the, the risk of injury and the danger of the sport? I mean, are you constantly aware of it when you're out there? KR: No, I think it's like anything really, especially, you know, when you're playing football, I imagine guys aren't really thinking about getting concussions. It happens… DG: You can’t constantly be thinking about it. KR: You can't because then you're going to be hesitant, you’re not going to perform at a high level. But it's like when I get on a horse, I go compete. It crosses my mind that, yeah, I can seriously get hurt, but when I'm in the moment, I'm in the game, and the adrenaline's going, you're excited about it. You're just out there, and unfortunately, nasty accidents happen. Both for horse as well as player. Those things happen, but it's like anything, I mean, you ride a bike down the street, hit by a car. That's it. So for me personally, I'm never thinking about, you know, a what if, or I shouldn't do this, I try my best to play the game safely, and not to do stupid things, but accidents are inevitable. DG: And I guess, I mean, life is all about taking mitigated risks when you're getting a lot out of something, and it sounds like your relationship with horses has done so much good in your life. KR: Yeah, yeah. DG: What’s it mean, just sort of 50,000 feet, like, this relationship with sports, ike polo with these horses. You say it changed your life when your brothers took that wrong turn that was a right turn. I mean, what do you think about when you think about horses and the role that they've played in your growth? You're healing? KR: Yeah. No, I mean, I can't imagine my life without horses. [MUSIC] KR: Let's talk about the therapeutic side again. Right. I'm, you know, I'm very open about my mental health challenges that I went through, in both of my books and you know how as a kid I still with anxiety and as I got older anxiety and depression and I realized that every time I showed up to the barn, I was around the horse, those things kind of went away. DG: Just melted away. KR: Melted away. Right. And so immediately, I, you know, I gotta speak to how horses have just personally helped me through some of my mental health challenges. But then there's also this special piece where there aren't many sports in the world where you have an animal as a partner, right? Or as a teammate, if you will. And so there's this unique relationship that you build with this incredible animal. And the other fun part is that each horse has their own personality. And so you get to know them, like you're just really communicating in the, as I'm communicating with you, are another human, right? DG: Kareem and his brothers made the most of this unique opportunity. In 2011, they rode their natural talent for polo all the way to the national championship match. [CLIP OF KAREEM IN 2011] KR: This year has been a very good year for us, we have a winning record right now. We still have a lot to prove to others, so I don’t want to, kinda, talk about the championship because the real championship is what’s coming up in a week or so. [MUSIC] DG: All the work that Kareem and his brothers had put into cleaning the stables, brushing and treating the horses, and learning the nuances of polo culminated in a remarkable triumph. So 2011, you were captain of the Work to Ride team that became the first all Black team to win the national interscholastic polo championship? KR: Yes. DG: Take me to that moment. What memory is most vivid? KR: Yeah. No, that was an incredible year for us, it was an incredible year for me. Incredible year for Work to Ride. My brothers Deymar and Brandon, who was on the team, but really leading up to that year or leading, I guess he taking us back a couple years, you know, just, when we eventually started to really understand the game of polo, and we were now starting to be able to perform at a higher level, we were playing against better competition. You know, we took it a little bit more seriously. That took some time and a lot of practice, and effort, and commitment on our end to get to that point. But when we hit 2011 was my senior year in high school, and it was my last chance to win a high school championship. So I know I wanted it bad as well as Deymar and Brandon, we all wanted it bad, and I'm like, there's no way that I'm going to leave high school without winning a national championship. So you know, we asked Leslie to make sure that she scheduled games against some of the best competition. We wanted to play the best DG: And that's what we get you ready to make a national run KR: Yeah. Exactly. So we actually ended up started competing against some of the top collegiate teams in the country that year. And, we either beat them or we're very close to beating some of the best teams. So these were kids that were a few years older than us, much better, better resources. You know, but that we didn't care. We just wanted to be prepared to go play against, you know, the top high school team. But, you know, to really be the best, you got to beat the best, and you got to compete with the best. And so, Leslie made an effort to schedule some of the games against some of the top schools. And, you know, we were just like pumped every game to walk into the arena or driving to a game, just excited about, you know, the competition and realizing that we could hold our own. And when we started competing, and then we were in the games, we lost. We lost probably by like 1 or 2 goals. And the games we won again, not by much, but those losses actually felt like wins to us because we knew we're like, okay, now we're finally being taken seriously. But the fact that we can compete at this level was cool. So, kind of leading up to that year, you know, we pretty much beat every high school team convincingly. DG: With any of them coming from neighborhoods like “The Bottom” in West Philly? KR: No, no. Absolutely not. No, no, no, no teams. No. We were the only black kids. We were the poorest. We were the only team that didn't have any resources. We had every, there was everything stacked against us for us not to win, or to show up to a place and embarrass ourselves, or the expectations you know, were “These are a great group of kids, you know, they come out and work hard, but yeah, we're not surprised that they lose.” And that was, we didn't see ourselves that way. And so to answer your question, there were no kids who came from similar circumstances. So we showed up as real underdogs in so many different ways, and we really fed off of that, that underdog story mentality, expectation. It was kind of, you know, we’d walk into places, and we looked at, we only had upside because everyone was expecting us to fail. And so over here, like we have absolutely nothing to lose. DG: But I don't take what you're saying lightly, like that’s got to be hard to come in there. I mean, looking differently, coming from a place that no one expected to have a successful polo team like to be able to overcome that and use it as motivation, I mean, that's really extraordinary. [MUSIC] KR: Yeah, but it's like when you come from a place like “The Bottom,” right? I mean, literally the bottom, it's you eventually, you can, let me actually backup. So my, eventually my outlook on life, I started looking at the glass half full. Right. We came from, we were born into our situation. We had completely no control over it. Right. We didn't choose our moms. We didn't choose our dads. We didn't decide to, you know, be born into families who are addicts or any of those things. And over time, eventually, you know, and surround ourselves around great people and mentors, and going to school, you know, I was able to build that perspective. And there was a point where you're getting older, sure, people can feel sorry for you, people, you know, people are aware of where we came from. But it wasn't necessarily always going to be handouts. So we had to figure out how do we earn it? How do you show up? How do you go and earn something like this? How do you work hard for it? Right. And, again, yeah, we didn't let the self-doubt, not the self-doubt, the other doubters or folks who wanted to give us handouts, and those things really stop us from like going for the ultimate goal, and that was to win a national championship. And also, we weren't even at that time, we weren’t thinking about it like, “Oh, we could be the first all Black team to do it.” We were just hungry kids from “The Bottom” in West Philly who wanted to win a championship just because we put our minds to it, and that's what we did. DG: So you decided to write a memoir, “Crossing the Line,” which I understand now, from your description of polo and the foul. What led you to do that? Like, did you feel like there was a great writer inside you since you grew up? What was the decision to write about your life? KR: You know, I wanted to write something that was going to be moving and also just really tell things that also haven't been shared in the media and things that, folks, that we grew up around or with, even through the polo circuit, weren't even aware of. Because a lot of folks, you know, will hear the ten-minute clip on Real Sports or ESPN E:60, that says, you know, “Here are these Black kids from Philly who won a national championship, they grew up in a place called ‘The Bottom,’ it’s really poor.” And like, that was the narrative, right?. DG: A way to really oversimplify it. KR: Yeah. So that's what people knew about us. No one really knew us. No one really knew the real struggle, because we would show up at places like the Hamptons and go play polo or travel over to Palm Springs in California, in Indio, and go play polo or do something or go somewhere and, you know, we would get invited, and we would meet all these incredible people. And then life was great when we were there. But at the end of the day, we were going back to “The Bottom.” So, you know, I'm not sure what people, I'm not exactly sure what people thought happened when we, like, left the barn, but I wanted to be able to actually provide a real-life just, you know, description of what that was like for us. DG: For all the successes that Kareem enjoyed in his playing career, his life has been equally shaped by devastating personal trials. We should say, I mean, you've continued to have to confront loss and tragedy, even though you overcame so much and became successful and had all of these, you know, incredible milestones. I mean, you mentioned your brother David, who was killed just before your memoir came out. And I knew you were able to write about it. What happened? [MUSIC] KR: Yeah. You know, again, if it wasn't for David, really, I don't think I would ever really found the stable. You know, he discovered it, and I mean, him and B, you know. David left the Work to Ride barn, probably, he was probably there maybe for a good two years, three years max, maybe. And, you know, like most kids in West Philly, you're surrounded by a lot of tough situations, and you know what I mean, situations as not going to school, being around drugs and violence. And you know, David unfortunately gravitated towards the things that led him to an early grave. And, you know, David went away to prison for about seven years for dealing, and then he was home. He returned home after seven years. And then he was out for about 5 or 6 or whatever, I think, before he was killed. But his past unfortunately caught up with him. I don't know all the specifics and all the details. But it's it doesn't really take rocket science to figure it out, you know? I know he wasn't, you know, by no means a saint. He was involved in things that he shouldn't have been involved in. And those things caught up with him. DG: I'm so sorry that I can't imagine losing a sibling in that way. KR: Yeah, yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's tough. And, you know, to have to step up and be there for my family, especially my mom. That was, yeah, it was a challenging time. And honestly, it didn't hit me until probably about nine months later, when I started to struggle with his loss. DG:It wasn’t just the death of his brother. Throughout his life, Kareem has witnessed those closest to him endure impossible trauma. Coming up, we hear how a deep love in Kareem’s life transformed after a horrific accident. Welcome back to Sports in America. When Kareem Rosser first met Lee Lee Jones, it seemed like a match made in heaven. Can I ask you about another relationship in your life? Yeah. Lee Lee Jones, tell me about her. I know, I mean, she's incredibly special to you. KR: Yeah. So, Lee Lee Jones, I met Lee Lee in the summer of 2014. Actually, knew of Lee Lee before then, but we finally got together in December 2014. Lee Lee is this incredible woman from Chester County, Pennsylvania. Comes from a prominent equestrian family. Her stepfather, Phillip Dutton, is, I want to say, a seven-time Olympian. I believe Philip is. And, at the most recent, I guess, not the last summer games, the games before that, he was the oldest Olympian in the sport that Phillip competes in. It's called eventing. Three eventing. So you have showjumping, cross-country, and dressage. So Lee Lee was an eventor herself. And so Lee Lee and I met in the horse world. We got connected through mutual friends, and Lee Lee fell in love with her instantly. So she was this beautiful girl that was this incredible rider. And Lee Lee and I bonded over our love for horses and family and giving back, and community. And so, she, you know, Lee Lee was my world and everything, and I thought Lee Lee and I would eventually end up married with kids, or living somewhere out in rural Pennsylvania on the farm. But unfortunately, December of 2016, Lee Lee had a tragic accident and fell off a horse. Well, the horse fell on top of her and crushed her head, and she suffered a traumatic brain injury. And this was, yeah, this was three days before Christmas, and Lee Lee spent about a few months in the ICU.just trying to survive that injury. And when that happened, it obviously turned my world upside down, and, again, it was another loss that I was dealing with, and just a different way. Lee Lee was physically here, but the person that I fell in love with and that I thought was that I was going to marry, you know, suffered this traumatic brain injury that completely altered her life. And so I spent a good, you know, four years or five years, traveling out to Chester County to the hospital where she was, or to her home, out on the farm near, spending time with her, spending time with her, but also just going along with her during her recovery and her journey. And, throughout that process, my anxiety and my depression came back, and I started to spiral in a way that I didn't ever expect, and I didn't know how to manage or deal with it at that time. But, but yeah, Lee Lee is still this incredible woman who is a very, very special person in my life still today. DG: Lee Lee’s accident left Kareem with an impossible choice. You made a decision, for that relationship to evolve, after what happened to her and move forward, as I think you've put it, as a young man with, you know, a future that you were, you're looking for. I don't, I can't put words to what I feel that must have been like or could have been like. Like what? What went through your mind in terms of seeing this person you love and you're young, and you thought you were going to build a life together, become so different, and decide like how to deal with that? KR: Yeah. You know, it's one of those things like you just don't know until it happens, you know, you always, for me, with my friends or family, talk about hypotheticals and situations, “Oh, what would you do if this happens?” or “How would you respond to this?” You know, and you just don't know. And, you know, as we talked about earlier, you know, I've already dealt with a lot of tragedy and a lot of loss in my life. So this wasn't, like, dealing with tragedy wasn't new. This was just, it was just something that,, it was new in a sense that I haven't dealt with someone that I had this intimate relationship with and I loved. But, you know, as Lee Lee started to slowly recover, you know, I was recognizing that it was also going to be unfair to me and her if I decided I, you know, I'm going to completely forget about my life and to stick around and devote my entire life to her, because I was just 25 or whatever at the time. And as you said, I had this whole life ahead of me. And so I had to make this tough choice, “Okay, can I move on and go see other people?” You know, yeah, I was dealing with feeling guilty. Right? There's this whole guilt that I had to deal with, you know, and so there were all these different emotions, but I'm like, this is not, I can't mentally, emotionally take this anymore, and it's not fair to myself. And I don't think I would really be helping myself or Lee Lee in this situation. So thank God, with the help of therapy, I found an incredible therapist that I connected with that eventually, gave me the tools, gave me the vocabulary and gave me the ability to be able to start articulating, thinking, articulating my feelings, but also thinking about what I was going through. And then also got me to a point to where I didn't necessarily feel guilty for moving on. Right. I was able to go and go out on a date or see other people without that worry of, you know, “Oh, I'm leaving my partner behind, and she's in horrible shape, and I'm now living this whole new life.” So I was really, you know, I'm just very grateful for therapy and very thankful for the people who gave me the resources and the encouragement to go and to do it and, but, yeah, without therapy, I think it would have been, I would have been in a very, very bad place. DG: And it sounds like you have this beautiful arrangement now, I mean, you have a new partner. You have a daughter. But it sounds like Lee Lee’s very much part of your family. KR: Yeah. No, Lee Lee is definitely part of the family. I still visit her, like, minimum, I try once a month if not more than that. Yes. You know, Lee Lee is in many ways very involved in my family circle. Lee Lee still has a very special place in my heart. Fortunately, you know, my wife sees Lee Lee as an extension to our family as well. And, my daughter Zara spends, you know, when we go over and have family cookouts and pool parties and when I'm visiting Lee Lee by myself, I'm scrolling through my phone and sharing pictures and videos, and, you know, and Lee Lee’s parents and I have an incredible relationship. I have a great relationship with her siblings as well. You know, when I walk into the room, Lee Lee still lights up, I light up, we still have this incredible connection. We have this understanding that, you know, this is our lives now. You know, one of the promises that I made Lee Lee when she first got hurt, when she was in the ICU, just trying to survive, you know, I told her. I said, “If you choose to stay alive. I'm going to stick by your side no matter what. And as long as I can physically show up, I will be there.” And that happened in 2016, and I haven't left our side since then, despite all the differences and, you know, my new relationships and, you know, my new life. Lee Lee’s still a part of that. DG: You've told us all that you feel like love is not static. What do you want us to understand about that statement? KR: Yeah. I mean, love, it evolves, right? My situation is a great example of love evolving. Right. Love doesn't mean that I have to stick around and stay by Lee Lee’s side as her boyfriend and be her caregiver. Even though we weren't, we weren't married or any of those things. You know, love, you know, our form of love has evolved where I now have a wife, I have a kid. It's, you know, the kids, not Lee Lee’s, but in many ways, I see Zara as Lee Lee’s daughter as much as I see her as my wife's daughter. You know, I have this great relationship with her parents. And, you know, we have this transparent, great relationship where we can talk about most things, and we, you know, our families come together for events. It's not, like, awkward or weird where, you know, I have my wife here, and then my, you know, ex-partner that was injured in the accident. You know, my nieces and nephews show up to Lee Lee’s house, and we have just an incredible time. So we have, like, this blended family. So, I don't think anyone thinks it's weird, but it's like one of those things that, again, it just shows how love can evolve. And love is not necessarily just one way. Right? DG: This person you love was injured on a horse. Has that changed your relationship with horses? Like, is there any resentment or blame or like, I don't know, things that you, do you think twice sometimes about getting back on a horse because of what would happen to her? KR: No, not at all. I mean, I've seen plenty of other people get hurt pretty seriously before Lee Lee’s accident. I've got, I've, you know, fell and had some accidents myself. It's just part of the sport, part of the game. It's part of the lifestyle. You know, it's again, I just think about it. It's like, maybe it's not a good comparison of riding a bike or whatever, but, like, accidents happen, and you know, yeah, it's like I just didn't want that to change my outlook on horses or my life. Because I know every time I walked into the barn, it's the one time when I was at peace, it’s the one time it took away all of my worries. It's my happy place. And the accident didn't change that feeling at all. Did I have, like, a minute or, like, a moment of, you know, maybe I should reconsider some things? Yeah, probably. I mean, it was probably literally a moment, a second, but, beyond that, no, I think the one thing I do now is actually I wear a helmet all the time. Before, I wasn't always wearing a helmet. So, I guess in that respect, there was like some changes there, but beyond that, horses are everything to me. DG: As Kareem reached the top of his sport, traveled the world, became a father, he never forgot where he came from. He still lives in Philadelphia and spends much of his time devising a bigger and broader vision for the good that Work to Ride can do in the city. [MUSIC] DG: Tell me about the scene at Work to Ride now. I know you're expanding. I know you're on the board. I know you're one of the leaders of the organization. Where do you hope it goes from here? What's the spirit of the program right now? And, what's the future? KR: We are about a few weeks away from completing building a $13 million indoor riding facility, a 45,000 square foot building that's going to allow us to operate year-round, which we are incredibly excited about. And then our next step is rehabbing the stables that we have been leasing from the city for the last 31 years, this July. And then, we're also looking to grow an endowment and then increase the number of kids that we serve. These last few years have been incredibly rewarding for me personally, as we said earlier on. Just, you know, that journey and becoming a national polo champion with absolutely no resources to now being able to build a world-class facility here in Philadelphia, where we'll be able to have polo year-round, but also many other equestrian-related activities. I'm incredibly grateful to now be in a position to give back in this way. I know I've always wanted to come back and support. DG: Yeah, Kareem, there's something so authentic about you giving back. It doesn't feel performative ever at all. And listening to your story, and I think about the personal relationships too. It's like you're, you know, it's like your brother kind of being, as you've talked about being dragged back into “The Bottom” in the neighborhood and losing his life because of it. And yeah, you know, and Lee Lee and the tragedy that she went through, you don't run from things, you like re-engage in relationships, and there's a fearlessness about that that really comes through. KR: Yeah. No, I mean my mom, as well as Leslie, you know, have just really taught me how to kind of tackle challenges head-on. Right. Again, being told no or “You're not good enough,” or “You guys are going to lose.” You know, “Why did you show up?” All those things fuel me; it makes me want to go and go after the things people say I actually can’t do or that we can’t do. And then the other thing is also exposing the kids to real opportunity, and exposing the things that eventually allows them to dream and believe that they can be much more than their zip code or much more than, you know, someone else who's struggling. But it's hard to kind of believe those things if you're not exposed to them. So, I'm now using my journey as a way to create new believers, believers who are going to hopefully make a huge difference. So, I'm just excited about it. And, it's a yeah, it's been an incredible ride. DG: Thank you for sharing your story with us. KR: Thank you. [MUSIC] DG: Next time, on Sports in America, it’s an ever-present threat in pro sports, and every athlete’s worst nightmare: getting injured. One singular moment can end a season, or even a career. The question that plagued Quarterback Robert Griffin III when he tore his ACL for the second time: Was there any way he could stay in the game? ROBERT GRIFFIN III: At that point as a player, you're in the playoffs, right? You have no idea if there's going to be a game next week if you're not playing. You're willing to put your body on the line. DG: Then: against warnings from her doctor, WNBA star Elena Delle Donne played through three herniated discs, a broken nose, and a knee injury in a championship game. Six years later, how does she look back on that decision? ELENA DELLE DONNE: I was given all the warnings, but I wasn’t gonna listen. DG: That’s next time, on Sports in America. This is Sports in America. I’m your host, David Greene. Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa. Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling. Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia, and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeart Radio app — you know, wherever you get your podcasts.