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CLASSIC: The Earliest Recorded Mooning Killed Thousands · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, fellow ridiculous historians, keep your pants on. We have
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: a great classic episode for you, we do. Ben.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Are you familiar with the practice known as pheasants underglass?
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I'm familiar with the dish. I didn't know it was
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: a move.
• 0:13
  Speaker 3: Well, it's when you take your bare butt cheeks and
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: press them against a window.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, like any window or window.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I think, as long as it's glass, I think it's okay.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: It could be like a sliding door or whatever.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: But so like, if I carry a pane of glass
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: with me before I moon people.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I would argue that would be even more akin to
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: the actual pheasant underglass, because it's, you know, a portable
• 0:35
  Speaker 3: thing that you can just pull right off, revealing the
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: bear butt.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: The mooning practice of mooning is a historical I guess,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: dis referring to the act of bearing ones behind to
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: someone as an insult, sort of a biting of the thumb.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Have you ever mooned anyone?
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Know?
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Maybe cheekily, you know, someone out in a relationship with
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: you know, a little cheeky sneak peek at the old
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: bum maroony, but no, never in anger. Honestly, I just
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: don't understand the act of doing it in anger. It's
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: so goofy and silly. Although maybe has not aged super well.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: The idea of exposing oneself to somebody not great. They
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: have laws against that stuff, so maybe definitely don't do that.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: There's got to be a better way.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: As Liam Gallagher once famously said, don't moon back in anger.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: He did say that it's true thousands of people could die.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: This is our classic episode. You know what Liam Gallagher
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: also said? What did he also say? You fancy some lasagna?
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: And with that here is our champagne supernova of a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: classic app. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Well, well, well,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: thanks for tuning in Ridiculous Historians. Today we have a
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: rather cheeky episode for you.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Huh Ben, you cheeky bastard.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to be I want to be bear
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: faced about what we're getting into here today.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Noel Hermann punster over here, right.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: We do want to say that we hope you enjoy
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: the occasional dad joke and pun that happens here on
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History, but we do want to warn you these
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: puns have not been approved by our super producer, Casey Pegram. Yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: In fact, sometimes he'll make a face, yes, but sometimes
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: it's a good face.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you know. We spend a lot of time
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: during recording saying stuff to make each other laugh and
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: then hopefully you can see it one day friend's neighbors,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Nola and I will make a joke trying to crack
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: the other one up, and then we'll both turn.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Well, you can probably hear the sounds of our next
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: whipping around over to Casey.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Approve of us, Casey for.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: A nod, just any kind of errant glance, you know.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we we hinge on it, and we do so
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: in the spirit of decorum conversations between gentlemen. This episode
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: is about something that is very under chorous, and I
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to open with a question. Don't have to answer,
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: don't feel obligated. I was hoping it was going to
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: be a song. No question in the form of a song.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Give it to me. Have you ever mooned someone? No,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: you haven't, not that I recall that.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, that's that's incriminating. I mean no, I don't
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: have a distinct memory of I mean yeah, okay, yeah,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: I mean you know, a girlfriend. Now I'm getting too personal.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: That sounds weird, you know, a little cheeky flash, you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: a little flash of the cheek, but not as an insult, right,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: not as not to degrade someone.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: No, sir, I will tell you a true story that
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: stays just between you, Casey, me and everyone listening to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: this show. Hey, we're all friends here. I did I
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: did moon someone once as an insult. In high school. Yeah,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: it was my junior year. There was a villain, a
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: bully in my high school. He was the year above me.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: And the kid was a sack of bricks from the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: neck up. The not the brightest crayon in the box.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you meant like he was built like
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: a brick ship house. He was also a big dude.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he made life miserable for my friends and I.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: And there was a gas station and that people would
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: go to every day after school to hang, to pick
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: up sodas, to try to mac on each other and whatnot.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And this guy was advertising one day near the end
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: of the school year. He was advertising a house party
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: at his place, and he drove a jeep he thought,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: of course he did, Yeah, an open air jeep. And
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: he thought it would be a great idea for him
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: to strip down to his skivies, put on a sandwich
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: board sign advertising his house party, and walk up and
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: down the street between the school and the gas stations
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: like a punishment. We really didn't like this guy, me
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: and my posse, and so while we were at the
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: gas station, spur the moment, terrible impulse. Don't try this
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: at home, kids. We took his clothes out of his
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: jeep and then we drove by in my car and
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: stopped and then mooned him and drove away waving his clothes.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: He ran in his underwear to his jeep, reared off,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: chasing after us. And it was also the first day
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: I mooned someone as an insult. Was also the first
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: day I got involved in a car chase.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: Okay, the bully didn't murder anybody. He chased you a
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: little high speed card chase, a little bit of a
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: fist shaking. But you know, no lives were lost in
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: this particular mooning incident.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, we don't have to go to the rest
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: of the story too, but but yeah, it's just just
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the mooning part is pertinent for today's episode because you
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: are right, Mooning, for some reason, is universally acknowledged as
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: an insult to someone right, it's not like another form
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: of a wave. Right. And in today's episode, you and
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: I discovered a story about just how far back the
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: practice known as mooning goes. And maybe this is over
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: explaining it, but what do you think do you think
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: we should tell people, just in case they're hearing this,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: tell people what mooning actually is.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if they haven't figured it out by
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: now or didn't already know, I'm worried about them.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: But why don't we do it? Mooning?
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: The act of mooning bearing your moon, be hind quarters,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: your backside, dropping trout dropping, or lifting a kilter or
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: skirts and lifting the kilter the skirt like in Brave Heart.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Remember that.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, apparently some historical truth to that, but it was
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: actually flipped around the other way. It was it was
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: the English mooning the Scots.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Because I believe in the film the Scottish forces show
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: their backside but then also show their front size.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: That's right, don't they doing about face? Or that was
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: the double the moon and the sun.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: It was very choreographed as well, so that's interesting. I
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: didn't know that that was the English.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: That's what Yeah, apparently in real real life skis but
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: we're going back to what some have dubbed the original moon, Yes.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: The earliest recorded mooning. According to many sources, it goes
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: all the way back to the first century AD, the
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: very first one, the very first one. And to tell
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: the story, we're relying on an author named Josephus Boyd
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Josephus man Young Fesus himself.
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: Hey, I know, I mean, he's got an interesting story
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: all his own, But let's let's start with the initial
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: story that Josephus has to tell us about this historical
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: display of ours.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, okay. So Josephus wrote a book called the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Jewish War, and in this book he tells a story
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: of a very strange event that occurred between the Jewish
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: people and the occupying Roman soldiers.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: So Roman force is during what's dubbed the Pax Romana,
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: which is kind of interesting considering that means piece of Rome.
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: But it wasn't so peaceful. There were outright rebels, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: there were revolts brewing in this land against these occupying forces.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: And there were a lot of factors at play, because
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: there were religious zealots who wanted to purify the Jewish faith,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: and then there were ones that were a little more
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: amenable to their invaders, you know, and we're kind of
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: okay with continuing with this way of life as long
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: as they were able to maintain some of the tenets
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: of their Jewish faith. So we're seeing here in Josevis's
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: story is a clash involving some of those more zealous forces.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, because whenever there is an occupying force, there
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: is inevitably going to be some sort of tension, and
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: this situation was no different. Imagine if you can living
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: in a city where in you and your entire community
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: are under the thumb, whether benevolent or whether brutal. You're
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: under the thumb of foreign forces, an alien culture that
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't hold the values you hold, that doesn't believe in
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: the traditions that you have practiced since time immemorial. Obviously
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: there's going to be some tension. Noel, I think you
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: did a fantastic job laying out the differences between these groups.
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: And we're not going to go all the way into
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: every nuance of this, but there is a lot of
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: back and forth in this conflict between Rome and the
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: people of Israel, ultimately resulting in the Romans being expelled
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: and largely massacred. But that's almost a whole episode unto
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: itself that is pretty heavy and full of bloodshed. We're
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: talking about moonings today.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. So the situation becomes incredible tense
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: during the passover season because crowds and crowds of people
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: are flocking to Jerusalem, and this is a powder keg.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Any small excuse could become the feather that breaks the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Camels back in terms of war. And there's an excellent
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: recount of this in a book called the Jewish Revolts
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: against Rome ad Sixty six to one thirty five, a
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: military analysis by James J. Bloom. So here's the situation.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: The Roman prefect, who is in charge of these occupying forces,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: would routinely post soldiers atop battlements so that they could
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: have an unparalleled or superior view of the proceedings of
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: the pilgrimages, the visitors the passover.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Make sure no one was stern any stern any mess.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no domestic unrest, right, And he was in charge
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: at this point. Do you remember Cestius Gallus, Yes, sir,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: that's the one. Yes. So he he had these soldiers
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: looking for any sign of agitation because at least from
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: the prefect's perspective, no one wanted to quote Michael Jackson.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: No one wanted to be starting something. But unfortunately those
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: plans went awry because of a single Roman soldier.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this unnamed soldier thought it'd be real cute if
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: he did the thing in question here, pulled down as
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: his what did he have, like a skirt? Yeah, he uh,
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: like one of those battleskirts. He had something covering his
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: took as he removed it. And I'm guessing no, he
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: was commando because you know, he was kind of a soldier.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: I guess where's the term coming from. Man, going commando?
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: Do you really think commandos didn't wear underpants? That that
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: seems to be a bad idea. Seems like you'd get
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: swamp ass.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like, especially if you're on a commando mission,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: you would want all the protection you can have. So
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I think going commando dates back to the Vietnam War
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: at least that's when it got popular because people would
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: say that these folks, these commandos went without underwear to
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: increase ventilation and reduce moisture. Oh so they dried out
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the other way. Yeah, it still doesn't make sense. No,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: it's fine.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Anyway, we digress. This particular fellow. Sure seems like he
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: had easy access to his bits.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, because he didn't.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: You know, you don't see it written that he you know,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: gingerly removed his breeches.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: No, it's he like pulled up something and.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: Let it fly. And to quote the account, you want
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: to do this, Ben, I think this. I think if
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: you care to this is are you sure, yeah, I'll
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: do it. I'll do it Joe cephas, and I realized why.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I think that's funny. I think of bo Cephis, which
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: is the nickname for leave Hank Williams Ocephis.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So that's I can never separate this too.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, Joe Cephis describes the historical mooning as such,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: one of the soldiers raising his robe, stooped in an
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: indecent attitude so as to turn his backside to the Jews,
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: and made a noise in keeping with his posture. Does
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: that mean a he let fly at a toot?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: That means he either either he actually flatulated, or the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: version that I think is for some reason much funnier
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: is he leaned over and made the noise with his mouth.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, yours is better there's there's different No, but
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: I put my hands on my face.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: He couldn't have done that.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: He definitely couldn't because he was holding his skirts, robe, rope, skirt, whatever. Yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: and this, this did not go over well, my friend,
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: because these were pilgrims on a during a very high
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: holy time.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's a holy it's a very serious, somber,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: thankful time.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: And they're already beefed up with these Roman jerks, you know,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: who are just hanging around when they're.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Skirts Boston people around spears. Well, yeah, honestly, it's tremendously
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: offensive to deride somebody's religion at any point, but especially
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: when they're in the middle of one of the most
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: important celebrations they have.
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to picture this too. Can you picture this scene?
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: What, how is this guy able to make himself such
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: a display?
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You know, because he was on that battle man, he's
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: on raised ground. But the other thing that's weird about
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: this is that we know very little about his motivation
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: other than that he was, as Josepha says, contemptuous. You know, so,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: was it something where he had had some strong wine
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and had one of those hold my beer moments?
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, he had drained his wine skin. Yes, yeah, you know,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: up on the up on the battlements in the hot sun.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Or was he really just a sober, bad tempered person.
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because ben, I mean, it's pretty clear from the
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: history here that neither side cared much for the other.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Right, well, why would you if you were if you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: were a Jerusalem native, Yeah, why would you be buddy
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: buddy with these people?
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: There was some weird side switching though, and our boy
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Josephus was one of these defectors. He initially was actually
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: put in command of a force of rebels on the
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: Jewish side, and then hopped sides over to the Roman side,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: and he ended up becoming the historian that told these accounts.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: And he is considered by many historians to be particularly
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: manipulative and untrustworthy. So he's kind of an unreliable narrator here,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: But it's all we've got, and it's, you know, a
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: primary source because he was there. But he also may
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: well have been a bit of a self aggrandizing liar.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's that's the thing. So his his lifetime,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: he was born in thirty seven CE or thirty seven
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: ad C for common era ad for after the death
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: of Jesus Christ and no dominie yes, nail on the head. No.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: And he died around one hundred CE. And so when
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: we go to this record of this earliest recorded mooning,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: it's him writing about this event far after the fact.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: But he was definitely involved in the political and military
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: conflicts of the time. He was, you know, as as
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you said, the head of Jewish forces in Galilee until
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: he surrendered in sixty seven to Roman forces, right, and
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: then he decided to stay on. He had been a slave,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: he had been an interpreter, very fascinating life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: we have to take it with a grain of salt
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: when we hear the stories as told primarily by Josephus,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: is he writing to sort of polish his own image.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Is he factually reporting, and if so, to what degree
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: he is held up in the Jewish community.
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: It seems as being at least an important chronicler of
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: some of these battles because he was there. But even
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: in this article I found from a beautifully named website
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: called the jew Niverse, they describe him as a famously
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: self aggrandizing ancient historian. But he wrote such works as
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: The Jewish War which is where this account is from
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: Jewish antiquities and against apion.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a two volume defense of Judaism as classical
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: religion and philosophy. Is very well written, prolific man.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yes, and speaking of that, and actually found a translation
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: of the incident, call it that. I much prefer this
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: is just the wording is which one is this? It's
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: just it's in this article in the universe, and it's
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: just it's the same. It's obviously the same text as
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: what we read a minute ago. I just think this
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: particular translation is way more fun. This one describes the
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: soldier as that he pulled back his garment and cowering
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: down after an indecent manner, turned his breach to the
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Jews and spake such words as you might expect upon
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: such a posture.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I love the idea of that he spake. Yes, Now
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: this makes us think whether there is a difference in translation.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Was he making a farting noise with his mouth? Was
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: he saying something offensive like, you know, uh, snarf my
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: butt people? I don't know, Ben, what ever?
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: Did I think those words would let fly from those
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: luxurious lips of yours?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. It's called a cupid's bow in
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the top one. So, uh, I don't we don't think
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: they said snarf. We're speculating there. But despite the fact
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: that many people nowadays love a good bit of crass,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: butt oriented humor, there's a time and a place for it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And that was true in this instance, because the crowd
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: did not react well to this. No one was like,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: look at that.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I started going down that path earlier. I
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: think we got distracted with more butt related lore. But yeah, no,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: this did not go well. This did not go well.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: And also that commander we were talking about, Gallas, Yeah,
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: he was kind of considered a bit of a dunderhead
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: or like a bit of kind of an overreacting adult
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: when it came to being a military superior. And there
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: have been a lot of incidents leading up to this
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: that were already causing a lot of divisive feelings between
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: the Jews and their occupiers. I believe there was some
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: destruction of some sacred scrolls and just just in general
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: bad behavior here on the part of these occupying forces
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: toward the religion of the natives.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, so you can read an excellent article about this
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: from history Net. The Great Siege of Jerusalem by Ralph Peters,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: which details some of the context leading up to this.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: And we have to establish that because it's easy to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: look at this single incident in a vacuum and say, sure,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: mooning someone may be impolite, but it's not a cause
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: for citywide pandemonium. So this was something that was happening
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: in addition to many profoundly offensive and disrespectful things burning
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: sacred scrolls, that's a huge one. But also there were
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: recent crises that had occurred in Afghanistan at the time,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: and they also strong armed the temple priest into making
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: a mass of payment to Rome, so they were stealing
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: from the people as well. That's right.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Was that the Pharisees, they were all these different classes,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: and I believe that Josephus was initially part of the Pharisees,
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: and they were a sect of priests that get sort
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: of a bad rap because of their place in the
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Bible and their interactions with Jesus and the idea of
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: the Pharisees and the money changers and all that of
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: being the sign of greed and hypocrisy. But they were
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: largely responsible for preserving some of the important religious texts
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: of this faith. So there's a lot of interesting stuff
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: in the history of the Jewish people, really really fascinating stuff.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, they were a kingdom, you know, yeah, the
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Kingdom of Judea, and like the Maccabees, and you know,
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: they were always able to fight off their occupiers and
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: they were constantly be inject with right.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Rome was one in a series.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean initially there was the Persian conquest, and
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: there was the Hellenistic period with Alexander the Great, and
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: there was even this sense of a lot of the
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of Jews, parts of sects of the society,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: wanted to become Hellenized. They wanted to become more Greek
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: and kind of abandon the old ways. So there's always
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: the struggle between religious zealous people that want to like
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: keep the faith pure and you know, more fair weather
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: Jews that I think want to be more assimilated into
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: their invading culture.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Right, Assimilation is the word, and the threat of assimilation
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: looms large, right, and not just in this situation, but
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: in situations throughout history. And so it is within this
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: rich and dangerous cultural soil that this seed of discord,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: this act of mooning by an unidentified Roman soldier of Moony. Yeah,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: sprouts and spreads because not only do the people not
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: like it, not only does no one go but stuff, No,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the people riot.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, no they ass out.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Ok. I think that's fine, I think it's appropriate.
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but no, I mean they're you know, this assembled
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: crowd of thousands, I mean upwards of over thirty thousand,
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: because that is the number reported.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: That were killed by Josephus. Yeah. Yeah, he says that
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: the riot occurs, and all told, when the dust settles,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: thirty thousand people Jewish and Roman lost their lives. And
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: part of this, this is a little bit maybe outside
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: of the documented facts here, but part of this we
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: can assume would be due to Gallas's incredibly belligerent and
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: bellicost nature.
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: And just utter skittishness, right because he called in the
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: troops big time, over corrected, and then gave the order
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: to you know, fire adam boys sticking with spears.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Right right, an over response. He's sent in Roman soul
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: not just to quell the riot or calm the people,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: but to punish and injure them, and that is what
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: sprouted the seat. Now we don't have any information of
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: what that unknown Roman soldier was doing as he was
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: on the battlement watching this riot occur. Did he go
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: down to attack some of these innocent men, women and children?
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Did he just stay up there thinking that he had
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: discovered one of the world's most amazing and dangerous insults,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: The Adam Bam of rude physical gestures, Adam Bum, the
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Adam Bum. There we go. So we don't know what
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: happened to him, but we do know that this is
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the earliest recorded mooning. So if you have ever been mooned,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: or if you like you're bullying, probably broke his mind.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: He probably drove him, mad man, you know, Okay, okay,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: last thing I'll say about that doll. It was a
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: car of us. Were you doing, Peasant under glass? What's that?
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: Are you pressing your bare butts against the window?
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I mean one guy definitely was one of the guys
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in the back Pheasant under Glass. I had no idea
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: that is such a classy moment, such a crass So
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: I guess, So I guess so Pheasant underglass.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Well, that's an advanced moon that's like some next level mooning.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: So whether you have mooned someone have been mooned before.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: We hope that this episode helps you be aware that
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you are either the victim of or the practitioner of
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: an ancient form of derision.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: But Ben, I want to talk about more historical mooning, So.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Glad you do know. Off air we were looking into
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: some really unusual and fascinating ones. What do you got?
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: What do you got? Ben?
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: I really appreciate you letting me go first. You know
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: how much how much I love this topic. We both
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: found and have been really enjoying a fantastic article on
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: slate dot com the very classy name mooning, a History
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: by Forrest Wickman mentioned briefly earlier, the whole brave heart
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: sun and moon gesture thing was actually flipped the other
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: way around. It was the English taunting the Scottish with
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: their butts. I think this article was think a good
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: way to start here is just let's talk about let's
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: get back to the coinage of the term mooning, because
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: you see, Ben, while this act was ancient, it didn't
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: really get a proper name until the nineteen sixties, when
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: the Oxford English Dictionary got an entry for the word
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: that attributed it to student slang of the sixties. Because
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: it became a really popular thing to do in university
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: in America specific exactly. And that's important because I believe
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: that the description the use of the word moon as
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: a euphemism for butt or buttocks dates back to the
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: seventeen hundreds or the eighteenth century. But the reason I
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: think it's interesting that it's traced to American or US
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: student slang is because American English is notorious for the
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: practice of turning every single word into a verb. You
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: and I have done it on multiple shows. Yeah, like Squatching,
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, from the Sasquatch episode.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. So it's it's nice to know that that
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: linguistic tradition precedes us. But I'm so fascinated by the
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: fact that this act has been described multiple times in literature,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: in fiction and nonfiction, and they didn't come up with
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: a convenient term for it for centuries, for heck, for millennia.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: We know that we know that during the Fourth Crusade
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and twelve three Western Europeans were to take Constantinople, but
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: they failed and they sailed away in defeat. And as
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: they were sailing away, the Byzantine forces who did at
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: them hollered at them and quote showed their bare buttocks
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: in derision to the fleeing foe derision.
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: You say, yeah, because this act you're essentially like sexually
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: harassing someone from afar that is.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: And then I guess, I guess it is somewhat counterintuitive
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: because in the animal world often when other mammals show
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: their posterior to a creature, it's an active submission.
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: Right, It's like, hey, come, come, get you some of this, right.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, so now it's clearly it is. So, of course,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: where would we be if we did not mention one
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: of the most well known retellings or depictions of mooning
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: in the English language, And that is, of course, the
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Miller's tale from Chaucer's The Canterbury.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Tales Old Saucy Chassi And there's baldy body Canterbury.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Tales Chos the sauce. That's him. There you go. So
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: in the frame story of the Canterbury Tales, a group
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: of people who are traveling decide to travel together and
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: to pass the time in their travels, they tell each
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: other's stories. These people are described often by their occupations.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: So there's a partner, for instance, who carries relics and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: charges people to get close to these religious artifacts. And
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: then there is the Miller, who is in a wild
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: plot twist the miller, But we have a very saucy
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: tale from the Miller himself. We're not going to read
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the whole thing, but there are some parts that we
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: think you will find choice.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Oh, Ben, can we do the back and forth where
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: one of us is the old Englishman and the other
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: is the translator?
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: For sure? Which one do you want to do?
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Can I be the translator? I feel like you have
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: a little more expertise when it comes to this work.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: I believe he studied in.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: The school I did, but my pronunciation is going to
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: be terrible.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: I wish Jonathan Strickland, the quizzer, was here in his
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Renaissance fair regalia. He would lean into this hard. He'll
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: tell you what he might be here.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: We never know. Let's launch a channel. Yeah, let's go this.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: So, just so we don't have to read the whole thing,
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: can you give us a little quick and dirty of
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: how we get to the part that we're about to start?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah. So the Miller's tale is this story
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: about a carpenter and his wife and these two students
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: or clerks that are trying to get her into bed.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: The Carpenter's a guy named John, and he lives knocked
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: for his wife is a lot younger than him, and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: she is known as the local hobby. Right.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: Isn't this like a cuckolding story kind of, isn't there?
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And what we'll do, without going into the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: without going into the entire setup to the story, will
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: read you the juicy bit where in a character named
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: Absalom attempts to pursue this wife romantically.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: And there's some climbing up a ladder into a window
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: kind of action going on here.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: So let us begin, lemon, thy grace and sweet bird.
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: Then, oh, sweetheart, your favor, and sweet bird, your kindness.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: The window she undooth, and that in haste she unlatched
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the window. Quickly, have do quote, she come on, then
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: speed thee fast, go ahead, she said, come on, and
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: do it quickly, lest that our neighbors thee a spy. Yeah,
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: in case our neighbors see us, this Absalom gon wipe
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: his mouth full dry. This Absalom began to wipe his
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: mouth dry. Dirk, was the night as pitch or as
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: the cool.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: The night was dark, yeah, like pitch or coal.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: And at the window out she puts here whole.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: And to help the window, she put her whole.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: We're a family show. Okay, okay, okay, and absalom him
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: feel no better, newares this confuses me. And as for Absalom,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: it happened no better nor worse. But with his mouth
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: he kissed her naked URRs.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: So body, they teach this in school, man.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: This is a We're still a family show.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: A translation if he couldn't use your imagination there but
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: with his mouth, But with his mouth he kissed her
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: naked arse full savorly are He was war of this
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: most enjoyable. Before he realized what he was kissing.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: A back He's start and thought it was a mess.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Back he started and thought something was wrong.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Here we go for well, he wished a woman hath.
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: No bird, for he well knew women have no beards.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Like we have a slow im.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I'm applauding for Chaucer and also for Ben Bowleen and
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: your fantastic old English.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Uh brugue, what do you call that? Elish whatever? Whatever?
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: Old brown ladies and gentlemen, you're too kind. Let's hear
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: it for super producer Casey Pagrie. Yeah, we're making this alive.
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: Can we also hear it for a regular contributor, Lori
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: l Dove. She didn't really contribute anything to this episode,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: but I just don't want to hear it's delight.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And while we're thanking everyone, let's give it up friends
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: and neighbors, for Alex Williams, who composed our track, and
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: for our research associate Christopher Hasiotis, who spoiler alert this
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: show and who spoiler alert needs a sound effect. Yeah, yeah, Casey,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: we defer to you, NI give me later. We'll just
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: you know, put it on the back burner. We'll work
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: you know what right to us and let us know
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: what you think is what do you think when you
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: hear Hasiotis?
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: I think about the infamous club, the Hacienda owned by
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: the guy that you know discovered Joy Division and New
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Order and all that stuff. Remember have you seen the
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: movie twenty four Hour Party people?
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's great, Wow, great movie that come out.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: It was like the early two thousand Yeah yeah yeah.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: And most importantly, give it up for yourself.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: Cann If you want to pat yourself on the back,
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: give yourself a handshake.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Don't be weirded out if people are looking at you,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: you are your self affirming.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: Play Rock paper scissors with yourself, see what happens.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: Tell us who wins. Please. In the meantime, we hope
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: that you enjoyed our exploration of the history of Moony
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: at least a fraction as much as we have clearly
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: enjoyed diving into it.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: I'm just tipsy with delight and sour.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: Our journey ends for today. That's the end of our episode,
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: but not our show. Tune in again very soon for
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: more ridiculous history and last, but certainly not least, and
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: we promise not bare butt related. We're going on tour.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: If you happen to be in Philadelphia and would like
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: a little bit of historical what would you call it,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: no historical entertainment, Shenanigan.
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, we bring the pain, historical pain. That sounds
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: not fun, you know what I mean? Yeah, I bring
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: the fun, the fun pain, And we're going to bring
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: our butts, yes, which will remain squarely covered with our pentaions.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the ridiculous history guarantee of quality. We
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: will have our pants on the whole time. But yes,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the rumors are true. You can find us on tour
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: July first in Philadelphia, along with our longtime pals and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: founders of Mental, Flossy Mango, and will It's True. They
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: are the host of part Time Genius Won't You? If
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: you happen to be in town.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: You can find ticket information at phillypodfast dot com. They
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: are on sale right now and it's at four o'clock
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: on Sunday, July first, at the Trocadero Theater. So come
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: get ridiculous with us in a live setting. For more
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.