Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Dan Kennedy on Meat, Fire, and Ego | Episode 197

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Dan Kennedy on Meat, Fire, and Ego | Episode 197 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
And like again, I think again, being someone that has benefited
0:05
off of social media cooking, I, I feel like social media is a
0:08
big part of the blame. Hello chefs.
0:11
This is Chefs PSA and I'm your host Andre Natera.
0:14
Today I'm joined by chef Dan Kennedy.
0:16
In this episode, we're going to get into how social media is
0:18
pushing bad habits and meat cookery.
0:20
We talk about the proper way to cook duck, Wagyu, octopus, lamb
0:24
and why knowing how to cook proteins seems to be a lost art.
0:28
We're going to break down the fundamentals, rendering,
0:30
resting, seasoning, how to build a better tasting menu and food
0:34
that's delicious instead of performative.
0:36
We're also going to talk about America's Culinary Cup and
0:39
competitive cooking shows. Stay tuned.
0:54
Do you think like when you're when you're watching social
0:57
media right now, like what do you think that we're doing right
0:59
now incorrectly when it comes to culinary?
1:03
Cooking proteins 99% of the time.
1:08
And you know, this is me after not cooking on social media for
1:12
a very long time, but still, you know, watch it and take it in.
1:17
But I think people just don't know how to cook proteins
1:21
properly. And you know, a big one that I
1:24
see is duck, like duck is like a protein that like I see cooked
1:28
incorrectly again 99% of the time.
1:31
Most of the duck that you see cooked that people are putting
1:33
up on social media is undercooked.
1:35
Trash, trash, trash. Tell us how you feel, chef.
1:39
Yeah. I, I, I take pride in meat
1:42
cookery. It's, you know, majority of the
1:46
kitchens I've worked in like I've ended up on rose stations
1:49
and it's always funny like talking to different cooks too,
1:54
where they're like, oh, I work like saute and I work grill.
1:56
And it's like I've always worked in kitchens where it's like
1:59
there's garmische hot apps and entrementier, paisanier and you
2:03
know, the meat station or station.
2:06
So I've always just looked at it like that.
2:08
But I've usually always ended up on like the fish or the meat
2:11
station which for for. People that don't know that have
2:13
may have never worked in a kitchen like that.
2:16
Meat and fish is like you're, you're a motherfucker.
2:19
You're a you're AG, you you are like one of the best cause in
2:26
some kitchens too, like you have like a saucier who's separate.
2:29
There's also I know you and Ron talked.
2:30
About it. Saucer is fucking gangster.
2:32
Fucking gangster in the kitchen. I've always worked in kitchens
2:35
where like the fish in the meat station like take care of their
2:38
own sauces. So it's like wrapped up all in
2:40
one where you're like proteins and sauces.
2:42
So like the roast cook is like the person you look at you're
2:45
like, that's the motherfucker. And usually they like end up
2:49
being like a sous chef, like right after that job and and
2:52
for. People that don't understand why
2:53
that's the case, it's because they handle the most expensive
2:56
center of the plate an item. Absolutely.
2:59
You can't. Vegetables.
3:00
OK, you can throw away an asparagus.
3:02
Asparagus here and there, like stuff like that where it's just
3:06
like hey, like don't fuck it up, come on, stop.
3:09
But like proteins, it's like you fuck that shit up and it's like.
3:14
There's a there's a lot of accountability.
3:16
There's a lot of accountability and especially like once you
3:18
start getting into like Wagyu's and even ducks like stuff that's
3:21
like super, super expensive. So yeah, that that's when you
3:25
start working in like as you like to call the tip of the
3:28
spear kitchens. That's always the stations I
3:31
wanted to like get to. So once you get to those, it's
3:36
learning how to like sure like butcher them properly and make
3:40
sauce properly, but then like cooking it is like a whole
3:44
another thing. So if, if we're talking about
3:46
duck, because I, I agree with you, most of the duck that I,
3:49
that I see is undercooked. And for people that don't know
3:53
that are listening, why is it undercooked?
3:55
It's because it's really tough. It's very tough meat.
3:58
It's very, very, very tough meat.
4:00
And I think people look at proteins.
4:05
It's like they cook it to like rare or medium rare and it's
4:08
like that looks so beautiful. It's like cool.
4:10
Have you ever eaten a rare to medium rare duck?
4:12
It's tough, like it's not broken down enough.
4:16
And then majority of the time too, like the skin is not
4:18
rendered properly. And so I think people at this
4:21
point like know like you start ducking a cold pan, like no fat
4:26
in it because there's enough fat in the skin itself.
4:30
But like again, like really understanding how to cook
4:36
protein is controlling heat. And I think people don't learn
4:40
that off of like a social media post because it's like, again, I
4:43
put a duck in a cold pan and you have on the Instagram a minute
4:46
and 30 seconds to do so. Like all of a sudden you put the
4:49
and then it cuts to I'm taking it out of the pan.
4:52
So it's like putting in the pan cold and low heat.
4:56
Like people always think to like crank it up.
4:58
It's like duck takes time. Like a lot of stuff takes time.
5:02
And so it's rendering it out slowly.
5:04
And the way I like to do it is like when the fat starts to like
5:07
render out, like dumping it out, like taking the duck out of the
5:10
pan, I render wiping it out, trying to cool it down a little
5:13
bit. Because once you start getting
5:16
those fats rendered out like, and they heat up, that's just
5:18
frying the skin. And then again, you're not like
5:21
rendering it out fully. So rendering the skin properly
5:25
is like first first step and. Do you Do you like to?
5:29
Dry age your duck. I do.
5:31
Yeah, I do. Dry the skin out a little bit.
5:32
Yeah, it tends to just make it easier to render.
5:37
A nice trick if you don't have time to dry age your duck is get
5:41
a heat gun and you just sit there with a heat gun.
5:43
Yeah. You should use a blow dryer.
5:45
Exactly. Yeah, same, same.
5:46
And it's just like slowly starts rendering it out and drying that
5:49
skin out just makes your job hell a lot easier.
5:54
And then I mean, honestly with duck, like I cook it the
5:57
majority of the way all in the skin and then, you know, give it
6:00
a quick base. I also like to cook it like age
6:03
it on the cage and then cook it on the cage.
6:07
It just gives it like a bit of more funk and like it gives you
6:11
a little more wiggle room cooking it.
6:14
That's that's the way when we had duck and Garrison, that's
6:17
the way we do we age it. We had a little aging cooler and
6:22
then give a little smoke to it. And then we we rationale, right?
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7:22
But we you know, we had a A program, right?
7:24
Hit hit the. It was perfect every time.
7:25
Let it rest and then flash it, slice it.
7:29
That was perfect. Yeah.
7:30
Yeah, but that's a that's a big thing too, is I think everyone
7:35
at this point knows to rest proteins.
7:37
You think, you think what? It's duck takes so much longer.
7:43
Like you need to rest duck so much longer than you think you
7:46
need to. So yeah, again, people, you
7:50
think people know how to rest proteins.
7:51
But then it's just like just let it show like and like majority
7:56
of the restaurants, like you'll see people like if there's duck
7:59
on the menu, like you're rendering those skin out before
8:02
service and you're like doing that whole process like before
8:05
guests even like coming to the restaurant because takes time
8:07
and then it gives you more time to rest and like all that kind
8:10
of stuff. You'll can I can I have a I'm
8:13
going to confess something you know, I used to tell my chefs
8:17
for Instagram undercook it for restaurant.
8:22
Cook it a little for Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:24
For sure, if you're taking a photo, undercook it a little bit
8:26
because. It's going to look better.
8:27
It's going to look better. Yeah, exactly.
8:29
It looks better for sure. But does it?
8:31
Eat better. No, no it does not exactly.
8:33
It does not exactly. And it's, it's, I mean, it's not
8:37
even just duck, like it's a lot of proteins.
8:40
Like lamb is another one. People tend to cook that.
8:43
You know, you know what else? Octopus.
8:45
Most of the octopus I see on these these art of plating
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websites, the fucking octopus I know is tough as hell.
8:52
Like I I could see it. Actually I don't.
8:54
I don't cook octopus or eat octopus anymore.
8:56
No, ever since like the whole like.
8:58
Documentary came to the the guy that I'd never saw.
9:00
Yeah, I haven't seen it but and I'm like saying I don't eat it
9:04
after, but like just learning how like intelligent of
9:06
creatures they are and it's super not sustainable.
9:08
I don't know. It's It's not sustainable to eat
9:10
an octopus. Why?
9:13
It's just one of the, it's just one of those things that like
9:16
you can't really like, I mean, one, their ecosystem isn't
9:22
protected. And then two, it's not like
9:24
something you can like farm, raise and like reproduce like
9:28
easily. Oh shit, sorry.
9:31
It's coming off the menu ASAP. I mean, you know, I, I'm never,
9:35
I'm never going to turn to someone and be like, oh, you
9:38
piece of shit, like you're coconut.
9:39
It's just for me. OK, so we will talk about
9:41
Octopus. But back to but no, you're
9:44
you're not wrong, though people tend to own their crooked.
9:47
It's, it's one of those things where it just takes a long time.
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And I mean, I, I worked in restaurants where we did plenty
9:54
of octopus and generally we always cooked it sous video and
9:59
it was like 85 Celsius for like 4 hours.
10:03
Like long long time. We would do it where we'd lay
10:06
the tentacles like this for people that are listening.
10:11
It's like sticking your fingers together.
10:13
So like, they match like a puzzle.
10:15
Yeah. So that when they don't curl, so
10:18
we'd, we'd cook them in the, in the rationale or whatever on
10:21
Steam that way. So when when we played at the
10:24
Octopus, you'd have a nice straight tentacle versus, you
10:26
know, they're, they curl so quickly, especially if you do a
10:29
quick dip blend. For sure, but.
10:31
I found this is nice and and because most octopus that you
10:35
get is curled up, I was like, I I kind of like this look.
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It's a long. Tentacle.
10:40
Yeah. It's very aesthetically
10:40
pleasing, yeah. For sure.
10:42
Yeah, but people do undercook it.
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But you know, back to duck. What do you do pre rendering?
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Do you score it? Do you poke it?
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Do you use a brush? I don't, I don't score.
10:55
I've just never been a fan. If anything, like poke it like,
10:59
yeah, like a little like sausage poker and you just sit there and
11:02
poke it. That's worked.
11:05
I've also just done it where I've done nothing to it other
11:08
than age it and like just cook it.
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Like if if you just know how to do it properly like.
11:14
Do you prefer to roast it on the bone for for your service when
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you're doing so? Roast it on the crown still,
11:19
yeah. Yeah, I just, I feel like you
11:21
get more flavour and again, like I think it gives you a little
11:24
more wiggle room, yeah, to just kind of get it to where you
11:26
want. It to duck is honestly what I'm
11:29
I'm thinking back to when I was in culinary school the first
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time I had duck and I was like. Wow, this is, it's one of my
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favorite proteins. I agree.
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It's one of my favorite. It's amazing.
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I like all those game birds, squab and yeah, quail and
11:40
pheasant, like all that. Like you can just put so much
11:43
flavor in it, but. But knowing how to cook meat is
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like it's an important skill. I mean, I, I think about like
11:48
roasting lamb and or a prime rib or anything like that.
11:52
Anything that requires interaction with the meat
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through stages, through the the temping of it.
12:00
Bring it up to room temp before you roast it, if you can, to
12:03
cooking it in an oven that's not too hot.
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So you have that end to end medium that you're looking for
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the Rose and then letting it rest season and slicing it.
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And then after you slice it, what do you do?
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So a lot of people sometimes might serve it, or you might eat
12:19
it with a little olive oil or fat or something.
12:23
Yeah, finishing salt, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:25
Yeah, I think I, I think a lot of people first of all, they
12:28
don't know how to cook meat like you were saying.
12:30
And then they don't know those other steps post cooking the.
12:33
Meat. Exactly.
12:34
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a lot of times
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there's things you just learn in restaurants and like, again, I
12:41
think again, being someone that has benefited off of social
12:46
media cooking, I I feel like social media is a big part of
12:50
the blame. I don't want to say it's all the
12:52
blame, but it's just people see stuff like, Oh my God, that
12:55
looks like you're saying. It's like for the photos
12:58
undercooked a little bit because it looks good and then all of a
13:00
sudden people eat it and they're like, fuck, is this.
13:03
Yeah. Yeah, what, what's your, what's
13:06
your take on cooking meat, beef protein like a 5 or anything
13:10
like that? So I again, I think people tend
13:13
to undercook that too. And that's, that's one where
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it's like once you start getting into like the like the A5
13:21
Waggy's and stuff like that, like you're talking like
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anywhere from like $45.00 a pound to like several $100 a
13:28
pound. So I think people are like
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legitimately scared. Like they're just like, Oh my
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God, this is so expensive. I can't overcook this, which is
13:37
fair, but I think people tend to undercook that too.
13:41
Because with like Wagyu know you've had, it's just fat.
13:47
It's so much fat and I feel like you need to render the fat fat
13:52
out a little bit more and just like get the proteins to a point
13:55
where it's like nice and tender. And again, like people might
14:00
come after me and be like, that's terrible.
14:02
But like I cook closer to medium than I do rare on beef.
14:07
Like I, I like medium rare, but like, I'm not saying there's a
14:12
medium rare plus. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I don't,
14:14
I don't believe in the plus. Things medium minus.
14:16
Those. Yeah, exactly.
14:18
Medium minus is real, medium rare plus does not.
14:20
Exist, yeah. But I I cook beef medium rare,
14:23
but like on the verge of medium. Like like you said, Rose, nice.
14:27
And Rose, I just feel like that's the best, like best way
14:34
to eat it. Like it's just more tender in my
14:36
opinion. Yeah, it is.
14:38
And I agree with you. I think a lot of I don't know
14:40
why we got into everything needs to be medium rare or rare, but
14:43
for the eating experience, I blame Liver King.
14:45
Yeah. Probably, yeah, probably raw,
14:48
but I but I think for the for the the texture, yeah, I think
14:52
medium is like the perfect texture for most meats.
14:55
And you know, when we talk about sous video, so like if you're
15:00
doing like the 60 hour short rib or, you know, 48 hour short rib
15:03
or something like that, with the intent to, you know, later on
15:06
serving it medium rare, cooking it over long.
15:09
So that way when you slice it, it has that rose still, right?
15:14
I, I like that texture and the color.
15:18
I don't like it. Too red, no.
15:20
Yeah, no, it's just it's chewy. It's not pleasant to eat.
15:23
No, it's like it's not. What?
15:25
What do you where do you stand on A5 versus not So like just a,
15:32
a, a nice prime or Wagyu cut of meat.
15:36
Like if, if if you're in the restaurant and your default meat
15:40
course, your beef course, what are what is your general
15:42
default? I want beef that tastes like
15:47
beef. Yeah.
15:48
And I feel like with A5 and Wagyu, you tend not to get that.
15:52
We actually served a Wagyu at the restaurant.
15:58
RIP possible rest in peace. But it was a Japanese Wagyu that
16:04
we got imported. It was called, it's called
16:06
kozatsu. So it's a traditional Japanese
16:10
Wagyu cow. They cross breed it with a Swiss
16:12
sematol dairy cow. And they don't rate it like on
16:16
the traditional like scale that they do.
16:18
Like if you've ever gotten like true, true like Wagyu, they'll
16:23
send you like a certificate with like the imprint of the cow's
16:26
nose on it and like all that information with this kind of
16:30
beef. They don't because since they
16:32
cross breed it, But I say, I like to say it tastes like beef.
16:36
Like it's very beefy. It still has a lot of fat
16:38
marbling in it. So that's like 1 Wagyu of like I
16:42
actually enjoy this. Other than that, like I'm not a
16:45
big fan of it. Like you're just like eating
16:47
fat, like and it's just like after enough of it, you're like,
16:50
I feel sick. It's just it's fat.
16:54
So for me, like just give me some like really good, like
16:58
grass fed beef. Yeah.
16:59
And just like do you have? A cut that you you prefer for
17:04
tasty menu style. For tasty menu style, like strip
17:09
wine usually, yeah, I'll do rib eye every now and then, the eye
17:12
or take yeah, like take the eye and then like take the Spinalis
17:15
and use that for something else. I've done it where I've like
17:19
active it for the pop up you came to.
17:22
Yeah, I did 22 caps. That was really good.
17:26
Yeah, I forgot about that. That was really good, yeah.
17:28
And that that was another one where it was just like, I think
17:31
a lot of y'all were worried. It's like, oh man, is it going
17:33
to be undercooked? And it was like the guy who
17:35
cooked it, like I can't even take credit for it.
17:38
He cooked it and he's like, I'm, I'm worried it's overcooked.
17:40
I was like, this is perfect, trust me.
17:41
And I like cut into it. I was like, perfect, yeah,
17:44
perfect. But yeah, go.
17:45
I, I like stripping on like rib eye cap, but it's just like
17:48
pretty. And then again, repurposing like
17:50
the Spinalis or anything like that.
17:52
One piece of meat that I hate to say I haven't cooked a ton was
17:57
the picanha. I've never really messed with
18:01
that. People who have cooked it,
18:03
they're like, it's so cool once you know how to cook it.
18:05
Yeah, I've never. There's a bit of a learning
18:07
curve there. That's what I've heard, yeah.
18:09
Like it's. It's tricky.
18:10
I I, I cooked it for an event and it was perfect.
18:13
Yeah. And then I.
18:15
Thought. OK, it it goes really unperfect.
18:18
If it's under. Like almost like duck, right?
18:21
It's almost like, oh, it's almost inedible if it's rare.
18:24
Hanger Steak's another one. Hanger steak's another great
18:26
example. Yeah, yeah.
18:28
And understanding that each, each one has a different a, a, a
18:33
different way to serve it. Like there's this, this moment
18:36
where it's like that is that is the perfect.
18:38
We saw it on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
18:41
When you're when you're serving meat, what is like, what's your
18:45
process? So you're, you're, how do you
18:48
like to cook it? First of all, I guess that would
18:49
be the. I like to cook it on on grill.
18:54
I like growing proteins. I like growing like majority of
18:58
things like vegetables, proteins.
19:01
If I can put it on the grill, I'm probably going to put it on
19:03
the grill do. You have a specific type.
19:06
I mean, I like the beach Auton it's it burns super hot and it
19:11
burns almost smokeless. I also like cooking over like
19:14
embers of like wood. And you know, I know there's an
19:18
argument for people. It's like it's a waste of time.
19:20
You're sitting there with like that little fan And I, I don't
19:24
think fans are like, don't get me wrong, I definitely like see
19:28
the people with the fan in their back pocket.
19:30
If I I've had cooks like come in and they put I'm like, get that
19:33
out of your that's stupid. Get it the fuck out of your
19:35
apron. But I feel like if you just know
19:39
how to control like the flame in the heat, you don't really need
19:44
that. Like you do see people sitting
19:46
there like non-stop. And it's like, learn to control
19:49
it. Learn how to like move it
19:50
around. It's a living and breathing
19:52
thing. Like fire is a living thing.
19:54
It needs oxygen to breathe and live.
19:56
So as long as you know how to like, move it around and rotate
19:59
and like get the like. The soot out of there that wants
20:03
to like absolutely smother it. I don't know that way but.
20:08
And and then from from there, what's your process after?
20:11
Do you have like a typical standard method is a rest?
20:14
What's your rest ratio if you have one?
20:16
Or do you just intuitively know, like when you're teaching cooks
20:20
to cook meat, what is the, when you tell them we're training you
20:23
this, what you do, you've got it cooked, you control the fire,
20:26
it's perfectly cooked. Where do you go next?
20:28
I mean, for me, I feel like I just like intuitively know at
20:32
this point. It's the same with like cooking
20:35
it to a temperature like I've never, ever, ever needed like an
20:39
internal probe thermometer where it's like, oh, it's perfectly
20:43
135°. Like I've always just been able.
20:46
Not always, but like I've got no point where I can like feel it.
20:49
And then I like hate testers where it's just like sticking
20:51
in. And I've gotten to the point
20:53
where I like use here because, I mean, I learned cake testers
20:56
where you put it like at the bottom of your lip and then
20:59
people see that and like, it's gross.
21:01
All right. I just so like, I, I tend to put
21:03
it like right here because it's sensitive there as well.
21:06
Not quite as sensitive here, but and then resting, I don't know,
21:13
I, I feel like I've gotten to like maybe like 20% of the
21:20
cooked time. Like if it takes you like 20 to
21:21
25 minutes to like cook something like rest it for like
21:24
at least 5-5 minutes, 5 to 10 minutes.
21:28
Do you rest it in fat or dry? Anything.
21:31
I It depends on the restaurant. So like again, at pasta bar,
21:36
like space was very, very limited there.
21:39
So we didn't have space to like set up different fat resting
21:41
areas. I love resting proteins that
21:43
were like resting it in its own fat.
21:45
It's so cool and it just imparts more flavour.
21:48
But more often than not just dry rest just like put it in like a
21:51
warm place. So it doesn't like like you're
21:54
putting it over somewhere underneath like an AC vent and
21:56
you're just like doing absolute opposite of what you want it to
22:00
do. So I usually just like have like
22:02
a shelf above like the grill or the stove and like rest it up
22:05
there. And then so once it's like ready
22:10
to like go to the plate, it's like, OK, flash it in the oven
22:13
for a second. Just like get a little more heat
22:15
on it, slice, send it up. I always like to send it up on
22:19
like a sea fold. So like if anything drips off
22:21
like brushing it like some fats, always nice, get like a nice
22:25
like Sheen on it, put a little more flavour on it.
22:28
And then just some, like finishing sea salt.
22:31
Maldon. Jacobson, yeah.
22:32
Jacobson, Maldon, One of those two.
22:35
Yeah, when it comes to, you know, so we're kind of talking
22:39
about this. You mentioned that I went to one
22:41
of your pop ups, which was really great, by the way.
22:42
Yeah, it was really, really good.
22:44
It was fun too. What do you how do you design A
22:49
tasting menu? I have a lot of opinions on
22:51
tasting menus. I know you know that, right?
22:54
I do like tasting menus and I love that style of food.
22:57
My thing is, I don't know how we got to the point where we have,
23:01
you know, restaurants that are serving 30 courses.
23:04
And seven hour experience. Like, I don't, I don't want
23:06
that. Honestly.
23:07
I, I, I look at it from the standpoint of what do I want
23:12
today? As you know, the person that I
23:14
am today who is, you know, still a chef, kind of loves food and
23:19
has a lot of friends that like to be creative and cook that
23:23
way. I don't want to spend more than
23:26
2 1/2 hours at the table for me. Agreed.
23:28
Yeah, agree. I mean, so when you're designing
23:30
now, like, what are you, what are you thinking?
23:31
What's your What's your current take on designing your future
23:36
tasting menus? For me, timing, yeah, timing is
23:41
like #1 I, I couldn't agree more.
23:44
Like I, I don't know if I'm like an undiagnosed like ADHD type
23:49
kid that just hated school and couldn't sit still And like,
23:53
that's why I love kitchens, But like, I legit like if I'm
23:56
sitting in one place too long, I start getting like anxious.
23:59
Like I'm just like, I got it. I got to get out of here.
24:02
This is terrible. Doesn't matter how great the
24:04
experience, like how warm and hospitable everyone is.
24:06
It's like, I'm over this. I got things to do, even if it's
24:10
just like watching TV. So timing is a big one, making
24:15
sure you're not necessarily like stuffed at the end of the meal,
24:19
but like satiated and like full because I mean, if you're going
24:23
to eat food, you're probably hungry and like, if you leave
24:27
and it's like the, it's the big like.
24:29
You you go to the drive through afterwards, Yeah, you don't want
24:31
that. The amount of people that like,
24:33
I've like gotten into it on like Instagram comments sections,
24:39
which I don't know why I still do anymore, but I just like
24:43
there's certain days where it's like called me on the wrong day.
24:46
So it's funny because you've done this, but I know I won't
24:49
say who, but a lot of other chefs have done this to me.
24:51
Like they'll message me. Do you know this motherfucker?
24:53
Oh yeah, I did that to you once. I was like, what is this fucker?
24:59
And so, yeah, there's definitely been times where I've gotten in
25:01
the comments with people and. I'm just like, like, stop it.
25:04
Don't, don't, don't, don't feed them.
25:05
Yeah, yeah. But I mean, you said it before,
25:08
it's like all of us love drama. Like we just love drama in
25:11
kitchens, so it's hard to avoid that sometimes.
25:15
But no, I mean, I've gotten into it with people who are like,
25:20
again, like I've done videos on Instagram where it's like I do a
25:23
dish and it's like people are like, Oh my God, that's so
25:25
small. I'm like, well, you know, this
25:27
is like a dish I would serve in a tasting many restaurant.
25:29
They're like, yeah, and I'd need a burger afterwards.
25:31
It's like, have you ever eaten at my restaurant?
25:33
Like, no, then shut the fuck up. Like I don't want to hear your
25:38
opinion. And like, if you've never eaten
25:39
at my restaurant, like I never, ever, ever had anyone like come
25:44
into a tasting menu restaurant that I've ran and been like, I'm
25:47
still hungry. Like actually I had one guy but
25:49
he was like gross how much he ate it.
25:52
Was like. I thought I was going to be full
25:54
and I gave him like 2-3 more extra courses.
25:57
Like I'm still hungry. I'm like, I got nothing for you
25:59
about like you're just weird. So yeah, making sure that it's
26:04
enough Food First off. And you know, it's different
26:08
because I've eaten at tasty menu restaurants where it's like 15
26:12
plus courses and like some dishes come out and it's like a
26:15
bite. And it's not like a canopy.
26:18
Like you get your canapes and then there's like dishes that
26:21
come out and like sometimes there's a dish that's like one
26:23
bite. You're like, how many get full
26:24
on this? But just builds up and it's just
26:28
like at the end of it you're like, OK, that was enough like 1
26:30
biters that I was full. I've also eaten a tasty menu
26:34
restaurant where I was like, I'm legit hungry.
26:37
But then after that, I don't, I don't necessarily feel like I'm
26:44
telling a story with my food. I know there's like definitely
26:47
chefs out there that their restaurants and their tasting
26:50
menus are like built off of like I'm telling you a story.
26:54
I think Dominique Crenn's like a perfect example.
26:57
Italiate Crenn. Like I've never eaten there, but
27:00
people who have eaten there told me it's just like the menus like
27:03
a poem and like she's got like a story to tell about her
27:06
childhood and stuff like that. I didn't grow up in France.
27:09
I didn't grow up in like some cool.
27:10
Like, I don't know, I'm like just a normal weird white guy.
27:15
Like I don't really have like some cool like story to tell.
27:18
But I like to cook food that I've just eaten and learned from
27:24
other people, like in my 20 year career.
27:28
And I just like to take people on like a journey rather than
27:31
like a story. You know, if you eat at one of
27:34
my restaurants, some people like hate it.
27:36
They're like, there was like nothing that tied it together.
27:40
Like it was just like we went from like Japan to Thailand to
27:44
France to the Middle East like, and it's just like, what the
27:48
hell. But some people are like, wow, I
27:51
just like went on a journey and like.
27:53
When I ate your tasty menu, I I thought it was exceptional.
27:56
And I think, I mean, this is just me, but hopefully when I
28:01
say it will be more than just me, because I know a lot of
28:03
people feel like this, like I, I sometimes want less story, more
28:05
delicious, like I want it to taste good more than I care
28:08
about the story to be to be honest with you, that's.
28:10
Kind of where I'm at. And your food was that like your
28:12
food was like, like, here's the I remember.
28:16
It was like a maybe it was tuna with Froot Loops.
28:17
It wasn't Froot Loops. But they looked like little all
28:20
the pickled vegetables. Yeah, it was like that was that
28:22
was a fucking banger. It was it was good.
28:24
And the caramel that you made on on another dessert course also
28:29
is like, it's like, I want that. I want to try the food and be
28:33
like, that's fucking good. more than I like, like, oh, that's
28:37
OK, but that's a good story. I don't.
28:41
I give a fuck about the story and I don't really know.
28:43
I don't want anyone. Yeah, I don't.
28:45
Want to knock anyone who's like, I have a story to tell.
28:47
Like, I think that's cool. I think it's cool when people
28:49
have. I just don't.
28:50
I don't. I'm like, just I just want to.
28:52
And then then that's when it segues into like, delicious
28:56
food. Yeah, sure, make it delicious.
28:57
Your story tastes like shit. Great story though.
29:02
Great. Story Bud, your duck was
29:05
undercooked, but no like and then like that's like creating a
29:10
tasting menu like the last and probably the most important part
29:14
is just making it delicious Like I think a lot of chefs, myself
29:20
included, like always got wrapped up and they're like, oh,
29:22
it'd be so cool to do this dish and like the technique behind it
29:25
and like all that it's like cool is it delicious?
29:27
No, then get the fuck off the menu.
29:29
Like and I think if someone can do a 30 course tasting menu
29:36
where everything is delicious, more power to them.
29:39
And like I'm like, that's fucking impressive.
29:42
But for me it's like, I like the realm of like 5 to 9 courses
29:49
because it's easier to make 5 to 9 courses all delicious.
29:54
Once you start getting into like 12:15, it's like you're probably
29:57
going to throw some things in there and it's like, I know
29:59
you've eaten meals. I've eaten meals where it's
30:01
like, I don't really remember. Like I don't really remember
30:05
everything. Like there were some bites that
30:06
were like, it's good, Yeah, technique was fine, everything
30:09
was cooked properly. But it's just like, didn't
30:13
fucking resonate. Yeah, it was.
30:14
It was. It's almost like an unnecessary
30:16
vanity. Exactly.
30:17
And I mean, we're all guilty of this show, so I'm super guilty
30:22
of. It all of us.
30:23
Yeah, it's just like, I mean, when you start cooking at this
30:27
level, like you'd be lying if you didn't say it was not ego
30:30
driven. Like it's 100% ego driven
30:33
cooking. But it, it's learning to like
30:38
when, when you realize that like, oh shit, my ego's getting
30:42
a little too involved and like, I just need to like take a step
30:45
back or like calm. It down a little.
30:47
It's, it's definitely expressive.
30:48
Yeah, it's, it's, it's definitely expressive.
30:50
But there there could be a point where it's expressive to the
30:53
point of detriment. Yeah, absolutely.
30:56
Absolutely. Yeah.
30:58
When, when you're structuring your tasting menus for people
31:02
that are listening, how do you, how do you typically begin?
31:05
Do you have a methodology like, OK, we want to start cold and
31:10
then we're building to maybe it's spice levels or what are
31:14
some of the things that you're thinking about when you're when
31:16
you're building your tasting menu?
31:19
So I always start with canopies. I I just, it's a nice fun way to
31:24
start the meal. One of the ones I do is the
31:27
Taco. Yeah, delicious.
31:29
I remember I said it and I've said it on like social media and
31:33
stuff that I've done recently where I'll say it again.
31:37
Like I never thought I was going to have like a signature thing.
31:40
And I said it at the Papa. I was like, this is turning into
31:41
that. I remember you were like pretty
31:43
bold. Like pretty bold for you to say
31:45
that better be fucking delicious.
31:47
And I stand behind it like it's one of those.
31:49
It's a fun bite. And it's fucking delicious.
31:51
Thank you. So like that's one, it's like
31:54
it's never going to. Leave.
31:55
So for people that don't know that bite, what is it?
31:57
So it's a tiny little Taco. It's not traditional.
32:03
The Taco shell itself is super not traditional.
32:05
It's just a tweel. So we make or I make restaurants
32:10
closed. I make a tweel batter out of
32:13
dried cilantro and then another one out of reverse to Chili's.
32:18
And then there's like a super cool Taco mold that got from
32:22
mold brothers, mold brothers and it's just layering it.
32:27
So we put like the green batter down and then the red batter.
32:30
So then when it's done cooking and like shaping and all that,
32:34
you see like a green and a red. So like you look at it like, oh,
32:37
this is cool. And then filled with for the pop
32:40
up. I think that did grill beef.
32:43
Yeah, I think so. I I jump back and forth from
32:46
like grilled pork to grilled beef, but put a dry rub on it,
32:50
grow it, and then I toss it in a salsa Verde and then a grilled
32:56
pineapple aioli and then top it with some brown butter fried
33:01
shallots. So again, it's like.
33:03
I'll put a, I'll put an image. I think I have the photos.
33:05
I'll put an image up there when you're talking.
33:06
It's it's super delicious. But it's, it's, it kind of
33:10
epitomizes my cooking where it's a lot of different like
33:14
techniques involved, but then it's like different cultures.
33:17
And like, I don't want to say I do fusion cooking, but like, at
33:22
the heart of it is like fusing to like there's a lot of French
33:26
technique behind it, but then there's a lot of like Mexican
33:28
and Latin flavors in it, which is like some of my favorite food
33:32
in the world. Well, it's just a fun bite.
33:35
It's really pretty. And it's like you look at it and
33:37
you're like, oh, this is cute little Taco.
33:39
And then you take a bite out of it and it's just like packed
33:42
with flavors, like 1-2 bites, just packed with flavors.
33:45
So starting with the canapes, and it's always a good like test
33:52
for a canopy is like if you eat it and you want like 10 to 20
33:56
more of them, Yeah, good, good. Run it.
34:01
So like just like starting off the meal or something.
34:03
It's like, fuck, that was delicious.
34:06
And then starting like actual plated courses.
34:09
I always like to start cold. I always usually start with like
34:13
a salad and the salad I did. For Oh shit, I forgot about the
34:16
salad. So again, I hate to I keep
34:20
referencing for people that were thinking like we didn't fucking
34:22
eat it, but you made the salad. And I got to tell you like I'm
34:25
not a fan of salad. Like I'm, I'm not.
34:28
I like when someone sends me a salad.
34:30
I remember Jacob, you know, my my former chef, as soon as he
34:34
got free, the first thing he'd put on social media was a salad.
34:36
I remember calling him like you're you're going to fucking
34:39
start creating content and the first thing you do is a salad.
34:41
Like I start talking shit to them.
34:42
But your salad, I remember I was so mad when I got it, but it was
34:45
so fucking good. I was like, that was actually
34:48
one of the best courses was that salad and I did not want to like
34:51
have the sun. Jokes on it, fucking banger the
34:53
dressing it was. Great.
34:54
Yeah. And it's one of those things
34:56
too, where you look at it and like, like, how is this a salad?
35:00
Like it 'cause I mean you think salad and you think like
35:02
lettuces and like tossed on a dressing and then there might be
35:05
some crispy stuff on it. But like kind of take that where
35:10
it's like a super, like there's nothing wrong with salads in
35:14
general. Like I love eating salads, like
35:16
making salad for family meal. Like I love because there's so
35:21
much you can do with it. Like making the dressing super
35:23
bright and acidic and then like the proper greens where it's
35:26
like crispy and crunchy and like putting texture on it and all
35:28
that kind of stuff. Like when I go to like certain
35:32
restaurants, I'm like, Oh yeah, I'll, I'll order like a really
35:34
good Caesar salad, my jam. Well, like going to a tasting
35:38
menu and if you're like a salad, you're like, what the fuck are
35:41
you giving me a salad? So it was like, how do you do
35:46
something that's just like different, different textures,
35:48
different techniques, different cooking styles.
35:50
So with that one is like, all right, we're going to grill
35:54
things, we're going to ferment things, we're going to pickle
35:56
things, we're going to fry things.
35:58
There's a crumble like it's just like so many different things
36:02
and like textures and flavors. And then like, yeah, any good
36:06
salad is like a great dressing. And what was what was the
36:08
dressing on that one? So it was Granny Smith apples.
36:11
That's right, juice Granny Smith apples.
36:13
And then we make an oil out of basil, tarragon and dill, and
36:20
then just like emulsify that this is bright.
36:23
Green yeah, with. An apple vinegar that we made.
36:27
So it's just like apple and herbs and it's like super bright
36:30
and like all that super delicious.
36:32
Thank you. So yeah, starting with a salad
36:36
and then more often than not, like I feel like I have like an
36:41
outline for like tasting menus where it's like cool salad, then
36:43
crudo course. And then after that, I kind of
36:47
like doing dishes where it's like cold, but also there's a
36:51
hot element to it where it's like I'm plating up something
36:54
that's probably room temperature and then I'm pouring like a
36:58
ripping hot broth or like sauce over it.
37:00
So it like kind of like bridges the gap of like cold and hot.
37:07
And that could be, you know. How many desserts do you
37:09
typically do to to to like a pre dessert?
37:14
Pre dessert. And you know, I, I don't like, I
37:18
don't like the first dessert being called like a palate
37:21
cleanser, but like the pre dessert I was like being like
37:23
brighter and like acidity involved and all that.
37:26
And then like the last dessert is usually like chocolate or
37:29
caramel. Or some more deck?
37:31
Like holy shit this is rich. Yeah, and it was good.
37:34
It was good. When I think about tasting menus
37:37
and, you know, we, we, you know, going back to they're a little
37:40
bit out of control sometimes. But you look at some restaurants
37:42
that are doing it like I think EMP right now has a 5 course.
37:45
I don't know how many La Bernadine does, but I don't
37:48
think they're 30. I know Providence in LA does
37:50
like A5 course and like A7 course or a nine course, 8
37:53
course, something like that and. I, I came across a Trotters menu
37:56
who really Between Trotters and French Laundry, they were the 2
38:00
restaurants that really started bringing the tasting menus to
38:03
the US. I came across an old Trotter's
38:06
menu that was a la carte. I've come across a French
38:08
Laundry menu which I'm not sure if this is a one off or if this
38:10
is how they start. I need to verify that was a la
38:12
carte And it made me start thinking.
38:16
So I was like, man, when did tasty menus really become in
38:19
vogue? And so I went back in my own
38:22
mind to my first job in a fine dining restaurant when I was 19
38:26
years old and I was a saute cook.
38:29
And the fine dining aspect of it was very different because it
38:33
was a la carte, but we would do certain things tableside.
38:36
So back then it was like the steak Diane or the crepes
38:39
suzette. I'm trying to think what else we
38:40
did. We did Caesar salad tableside
38:43
like it was, it was a lot of these things.
38:45
And, and the reason a lot of that was done was to take
38:47
pressure off the kitchen. So the service team had to, you
38:49
know, pick up the the steak in the dining room in Flambe and.
38:52
There was a little bit of the soul tableside and all that kind
38:55
of stuff. Correct the the soul or soul
38:57
Veronique with the grapes, whatever.
38:59
And so I was thinking about that.
39:00
I was like, we used to, this is crazy 'cause I haven't thought
39:03
about this until the other day. We used to, for every guest that
39:06
would come in, we had to, they would be served in ice
39:08
sculpture, a swan ice sculpture with a, with a sorbet in it,
39:12
right? That was the sorbet course.
39:14
It was the, it was and, and it wasn't like giant.
39:16
It was like a small little, we had a mold, right?
39:19
We had a, we had a mold of ice of a swan and every swan had
39:24
Raspberry sorbet or mango sorbet or passionfruit, whatever.
39:28
And I was like, OK, And then of course at the end we had the the
39:31
Bon Bons and the Miniard DS that would come.
39:33
And at the beginning we had the amused Bouche.
39:35
Everything else was all the card.
39:36
So they'd come in, they'd order their three course, there'd be
39:38
some tableside, there'd be the sorbet course that they didn't
39:42
know they were getting. It was the compliments of the
39:44
chef. They'd get the amused Bouche,
39:46
compliments of the chef. They'd get the Miniard DS at the
39:48
end, compliments of the chef. So you have this 5-6 course
39:51
tasting menu, but you ordered all the carts.
39:54
The other things were we were going to send out, you didn't.
39:56
Know you didn't know about? That and at a certain point I
39:59
was like, OK, so then as I started remembering that, I
40:01
realized there was a lot more restaurants like that than just
40:04
the one that I worked at. And then it just became
40:08
ubiquitous where it's like, oh, elbulli came out with their
40:12
crazy tasting menu. And then it's like, OK, well,
40:14
you want to play at the elbulli game, Tip of the spear, you
40:17
better be doing. 30. Courses, 30 courses.
40:20
Then it just kind of got out of control where I'm not sure.
40:23
And the only reason I bring this up is because I I think New York
40:28
Times, I think, or New York Post, one of these magazines
40:31
newspapers wrote an article like is the tasting menu dead?
40:34
It's like, I don't think it's. Dead.
40:36
It's not. It's not dead.
40:37
It's not, but I I do think that. I think the iteration of it is
40:40
dead. That's.
40:41
What I was saying I. Couldn't agree with that.
40:43
I couldn't agree with that more, Yeah.
40:44
We need to rethink the tasting menu, but it's not dead.
40:46
It's not dead. Yeah, it's not dead.
40:47
People still want to eat like that, but again, like I think
40:51
people don't want to sit in a seat for more than 2 1/2 hours.
40:55
I think 2 1/2 hours is like that sweet spot.
40:57
You'll get people that like don't mind like 3 hours.
41:00
And like, I mean we've had people sit at the restaurant for
41:04
like 5 hours and it's like. Yeah, what the fuck are you
41:07
doing? But you can't build a restaurant
41:08
for that person. No, no, you got to.
41:10
Yeah, you get outliers for sure. But like that's The thing is
41:14
like I like to cook tasting menu like I like to.
41:18
That's the style of cooking I like to do.
41:20
But do the masses want to eat like that?
41:23
Like do the masses want to eat in that form, in that fashion?
41:28
And you know, majority of them probably not.
41:32
I mean, you get a lot of people that I mean, I saw a lot of
41:35
people like commenting about it, like with pasta bar closing,
41:37
everyone's like good riddance. We don't need restaurants like
41:39
that in Austin. It's like, cool, you probably
41:42
were never going to eat here anyway, but like.
41:44
There was a lot of people that didn't think that.
41:45
Yeah, the people who came in were like, this is awesome.
41:48
Like you guys are amazing, like what you're doing.
41:52
So I mean, again, it's like, you know, Reddit and Instagram where
41:54
people are just go to hate. I, I I.
41:57
Cannot stand people that celebrate a business closing.
42:02
It's wild. It's wild like.
42:04
You're celebrating someone losing their their livelihood.
42:08
That's and all the people that work there.
42:10
Like how? How the fuck?
42:11
That's that's something we talked about a lot with the
42:14
restaurant, like when it was announced that it was closing.
42:16
And like, sure, like you can hate on a restaurant, but yeah,
42:21
at the end of the day, it's like you're celebrating people losing
42:23
their fucking jobs. Like you, you know that, right?
42:27
Like it's like, do I like celebrate when like a tech
42:32
company closes? Because it's like, Oh yeah,
42:35
fuck. Like the CEO, but it's like how
42:37
many thousands of people losing their jobs?
42:39
It's like why are you like just because you and you probably
42:42
never even eaten at the restaurant, just 'cause you
42:44
didn't like the style of service we were doing or like the the
42:48
players involved. Square recently so square laid
42:54
off I think half their staff did you read that?
42:56
No, so Square is Jack Dorsey's Jack Dorsey, who used to own
43:00
Twitter before, has Square. And he put out a, a press
43:05
release that said, you know, where where company's doing
43:07
fine. But we basically found a way to
43:10
operate more efficiently. And I'm paraphrasing, but
43:12
basically it's implied like we have AI.
43:14
We have AI, Yeah. So we could lay off about 50% of
43:17
our staff. It's like, am I going to
43:19
celebrate that? No, like, like that.
43:23
Why would we celebrate that? It's it's crazy to me to think
43:26
that. And, and I mean, yeah, it's I,
43:30
I, I don't support that. Celebrating the difficulty of
43:36
other people from the sidelines. Yeah, it's.
43:39
It's weird, but it's also just like.
43:43
Fucking hater culture. It's a human nature hater
43:45
culture for some reason. I saw something today when I was
43:47
coming in. It was a good way to a good
43:50
segue into social media. I saw something when I, you
43:53
know, before, before I came into the podcast, this girl and she
43:58
was, I don't, I don't want to fully explain the video because
44:01
I'm not trying to pick on her, but it was like the cringiest
44:03
fucking video I've ever seen. And she's like acting out
44:06
different restaurant scenarios. It is really bad.
44:09
And I'm thinking like, do you really want to pitch in and hole
44:12
yourself into being the fucking clown?
44:14
Yeah, yeah, you know, like, do you really want to pitch in and
44:16
hole yourself into doing fucking skits for?
44:19
People that, but people have no problem with it because they're
44:21
like, it is like clicks and views and like all that, like
44:25
seeing like grown men do, like TikTok dances that like kids are
44:29
doing. And it's like, you're cool with
44:31
that. And like some people just are,
44:33
hey, good. Good on you.
44:35
Good on you. I'm just thinking like from my
44:36
standpoint, I'm like, I can't do it.
44:38
I've, I've tried to occasionally like turn on the camera and talk
44:41
some shit. I'm like, and then I watch it.
44:42
I'm like, I'm just gonna post it, see what it does, and then I
44:44
regret it and I fucking watch it.
44:45
I was like, fuck, I hope this doesn't go viral.
44:47
I fucking hate this thing. I hate the fact like that's why
44:50
I enjoy the podcast, because I don't have to put on a
44:53
character. It's like I could I this is who
44:55
the fuck I am. I could cuss, I could I could
44:57
share my thoughts, I could change my mind.
44:59
I could say that was fucking stupid for sure, right.
45:01
I shouldn't have said that, but. When you can get thoughts out,
45:04
like Instagram and social media is just like someone like
45:10
comments on something and then like someone wants to like put
45:13
their two cents in. And maybe it's like a good
45:15
point. But then you like go into the
45:16
comments section and you see like 2 paragraphs.
45:18
Like I'm not fucking reading that.
45:19
Yeah. And like in a, in a podcast
45:21
sense, it's like, let's talk about this and let's talk about
45:24
like the nuance and the context and like all that kind of stuff.
45:28
You know how to cook. That's not the problem.
45:30
The problem is getting your team to do what you want when you
45:33
want it. That's leadership.
45:34
My book, Culinary Leadership Fundamentals breaks down exactly
45:37
how to run a kitchen without losing your mind.
45:39
Stop yelling. Start leading.
45:41
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. By the way, I was I was watching
45:44
TV last night and the new show Culinary Cup.
45:49
I haven't watched it yet. I haven't watched the first
45:51
episode. Yet so, so a lot of people that
45:53
I know are on there. Matt Peters, good friend of
45:55
mine, is on there and Phil Tessier is on there as well and
45:59
I was so excited. I'm a spoil. 2 Titans, 2 Titans
46:02
right? Bocustior gold medalist.
46:04
Bocustior silver medalist and Phil first American to ever get
46:08
on the podium. Yeah, that book Chasing Boku or
46:11
Bogus is like one of my favorites.
46:13
Excellent book. Shout out to Philip Tessier but
46:15
they're both on there friends. Co workers you know have been
46:21
coaching and heavily involved with competitions of bogus for
46:23
many years. Spoiler alert at the end of
46:27
episode 1, they compete against each other and Matt Peters wins.
46:32
They're the competition like beef stroganoff.
46:34
So Matt does like like some enolodi.
46:37
I don't remember what they were stuffed with, but like a sauce
46:39
and, you know, some meat sliced up where Phil Tessier does a
46:41
very intricate pasta wrapped around some protein with like a
46:47
beautiful vase of sauce. And it's like very boku style,
46:51
right? Matt ends up winning Split
46:53
decision right between Michael Simmer, Rusty and Wiley Dufres,
46:58
and I think Padma has to be the tiebreaker.
47:01
And so I'm looking at that and I'm like, this is fucking
47:04
bananas. First of all, it's competition
47:07
for Top Chef, right? For the new number $1 million
47:10
prize, which you should go on that show.
47:12
I mean $1,000,000 prize. $1,000,000 prize.
47:14
I knew a lot of people that were that they were talking to and I
47:16
was like, should you do it? Like fuck yeah dude, it's
47:18
$1,000,000. For $1,000,000, yeah.
47:19
For $1,000,000. Yeah.
47:20
And the competition is solid, right?
47:22
Yeah, that's The thing is they they don't get like you can say
47:25
what you want about like the Top Chef competition.
47:27
It's just been on for so long that it's like, OK, like you're
47:32
starting. To get there's some sharks and
47:33
goldfish. Exactly, I mean, there's there's
47:35
some seasons where it's like, holy shit, these are top tier.
47:38
But like this, like first season of it, it's like.
47:41
All great whites in the fucking pool.
47:43
And episode one, they fucking close it with Matt beating Phil
47:49
Tessier. And I'm like, that's the finale.
47:53
Yeah, why would you, why would you do that on episode 1?
47:56
That's the finale. But I also see it like maybe to
47:59
get people watching it. It's it's get people talking
48:01
about it. It's like that this happens.
48:03
Game of Thrones effect where it's like Ned Stark gets killed
48:05
at the beginning of season 1. You're like, that's the main
48:07
character like what are you doing?
48:09
It's just like that. Like holy shit, y'all did that?
48:12
Like you had one of the best chefs, if not like the best chef
48:17
on the competition, like gone episode 1.
48:20
And it's usually like episode 1 is like the person you're like
48:22
that person the belong here. Get them out of here.
48:24
Get that person out of here. Right.
48:26
But like, yeah, I was blown away.
48:28
I was like, I was like, fuck, call me Culinary Cup.
48:31
I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you what not to
48:33
do next time. Like save that for I mean, I
48:36
honestly, no disrespect to that. I have no idea how this is going
48:38
to play out. Everyone's talented on that
48:40
show. But I I thought like, oh, that
48:42
might be the finale. What you that you could be
48:44
wasting your finale on episode 1.
48:45
But maybe they did it just to. Honestly though, like thinking
48:49
about it, if I'm not going to win the competition, like I mean
48:54
as a chef, like I look at like, and not all chefs look at this
49:00
the way I look at it. But for me personally, like I
49:03
look at it like hip hop, like where it's just like some of the
49:06
most braggadocious, like I'm the best MC there is.
49:09
I look at it like that same way where I'm just like, if I'm
49:12
going into competitions, like I'm winning this absolutely.
49:14
Like if you go in like it's like a fight.
49:17
If you go in thinking you're going to lose, you're going to
49:18
get your ass kicked. It's the same thing with that.
49:21
But at the same time, like, like if I'm going to like get kicked
49:24
off, I'd rather get kicked off like first because then it's
49:26
just like you're just like delaying the inevitable of like,
49:29
I'm just having to do this like, and those competition type
49:33
things. Like I just feel like my brain's
49:36
not like wired for it. Like there's just like that
49:39
quick fire stuff and like all that.
49:40
I'm just like I don't know but. Yeah, Yeah.
49:43
Well. But $1,000,000 a million I.
49:45
Mean it's a it's a good chunk of change yeah I thought I thought
49:50
the show was good actually before we wrap up you see this
49:52
hat here I like that I like that so this is that's clean this is
49:56
for people that don't know this is the Dan Kennedy inspired
49:58
chef. So when you when we did the
50:00
first episode of of Chef's PSA, you came in with the Philly's.
50:04
Hat you have Philly Red with the bee on it, it definitely gives
50:08
that. Vibe and so when I'm designing
50:09
stuff for the the the chef's PSA store, I was like, man, I want
50:13
to do something. I want a new chef hat.
50:15
You design all that? I design everything.
50:16
No, I do 100%. So everything that you see on
50:20
social media like the podcast obviously is me.
50:24
I'm getting my thoughts out, but a lot of the daily quotes that's
50:29
me brainstorming for the podcast and, or things or advice that I
50:32
want to give. So thank you.
50:34
But I like, I, I'm thinking about it like I'm sitting in
50:36
front of the computer, like what do I want to talk about today?
50:38
And I, I'll like think of scenarios like this or it's a
50:41
response to a conversation that I've had recently the the
50:46
comics. A lot of times I'm just like, I
50:49
think this is funny. I could for people that don't
50:51
know, I could be a lot funnier, but I don't think people could
50:53
take jokes. So it's like I gotta, I, I, I
50:57
tone it down. Sometimes I like try and make it
50:59
high IQ jokes. So people like, get it, get it.
51:04
But all of that I do like. So anyway, back to designing
51:07
this. Yeah, I design all that.
51:09
I, I love that. So I was like, I like that.
51:11
I like that feeling. Yeah, it's a different creative.
51:14
Outlet, it's a different since I don't get the culinary creative
51:16
outlet anymore. This is my creative outlet.
51:18
This is a podcast and all the different businesses that are
51:22
associated with Chef's PSA, which are, you know, obviously
51:25
the store, the books. So I get to write, I get to
51:29
publish, I get to design book covers.
51:30
I learned, I think I just gave you one of my books.
51:33
I learned like how important the book cover and title is to the
51:38
sales of the book because I just wanted to design book covers of
51:43
things that like, I like this, I've learned don't do that
51:46
anymore. Like, so there's, there's a
51:47
business aspect to it that as I learned.
51:49
But so I, I do all of that like it's, it's my creative outlet.
51:53
So that with this hat, it's like, I like to pee.
51:57
So like I'll just do a big C with the, the chef in it.
51:59
And I was like the first hat I designed was this red one.
52:03
And I was like, I'm going to do multiple colors.
52:06
So I have it like in black and blue and white.
52:08
There I saw the white. One yeah yeah yeah yeah I was
52:11
like I I like it so I was like OK I I like this but yeah
52:14
everything I I mean the shirt the sous chef so it says
52:17
everything passes here sous chef and so I'm like I'll wear it
52:22
like a lot of people like why are you wearing a sue chef shirt
52:24
It's because I fucking like it that's why a lot of the stuff
52:26
that I design is like very hip hop related yeah exactly so it's
52:29
like sometimes and and all the music that I put on any social
52:33
media post or on a story it's like I'm fucking choosing that
52:35
why because I that's what I want to listen to right now it's.
52:39
The same with like my videos, it's like I'm always going to be
52:42
very unapologetically me. If you don't like it.
52:46
Keep scrolling. Yeah, keep scrolling.
52:49
There's other people that you're not gonna like.
52:50
Exactly. By the way, for people that
52:53
don't know, when I did the episode with Ron McKinley, we
52:56
had Ron's hip hop playlist versus the chef's PSA hip hop
53:00
playlist. But there's also the Dan Kennedy
53:03
Hip Hop playlist that's also out there floating in the wild.
53:08
I'm going to link it in this show.
53:09
I need to I need to taper it because I think I went a little
53:12
over but. Mine's like. 35 hours or
53:15
something like that. I just like started getting to a
53:17
point where I was like, I like that song.
53:19
Oh, that's a good one too. I got to put that one in and
53:21
it's just like. I think I have like 120 songs.
53:23
I don't know how many Ron has on his.
53:25
Probably it's less. I'll taper it down but yours is
53:27
like it's like 5. 100 songs. I don't remember.
53:29
What it is, I was the one of my days off.
53:30
I was just like. Chef, it's always good to have
53:34
you on. I I love you know, you're,
53:36
you're, you're you're an elite group of three timers on the
53:39
show. There's a couple of.
53:40
So Rico yourself. Well, I think Gabe's been on
53:44
three times. Who else have I had on three
53:48
times anyway? Breeden.
53:50
Breeden. Yeah, We're working on Part 3.
53:51
I'll have Breeden on three times.
53:52
I'll have Philip Franklin Lee on three times.
53:56
Yeah. But anyway, you're you're the
53:57
official. You're in the official three.
53:59
Awesome. Yeah.
54:00
Triple the Triple Crown Honored Where?
54:02
Where can people find you If people want to follow along, if
54:05
they want to try your food, if they want to learn how to cook
54:07
like you? Hell yeah.
54:09
So my personal Instagram Cosinero at on or at Cosinero
54:14
under score DK I'm going to get back to doing some social media
54:17
content, but then I'm working on my own restaurant concept right
54:21
now and doing pop ups. That's Mori under score
54:25
ATXMORII. So yeah, I'm going to post some
54:31
information. They're going to start doing pop
54:32
ups and just working towards my own restaurant so.
54:35
Awesome. And I know I I mean, I've, I've
54:37
had a sneak peek. It's fucking great.
54:39
I'm excited for each other. Yeah.
54:40
One one of the best. One of the best in the fucking
54:42
game right now. People do not know Dan Kennedy
54:45
can cook like a motherfucker. I appreciate it.
54:47
Yeah, I appreciate it. All right, chef, Thank you.
54:49
Thank you. All right, that's the show.
54:51
If you liked it, make sure you leave five stars.
54:53
Nothing less than five stars. If you want more chef's PSA, go
54:56
to chefspsa.com. Get yourself some books, get
54:58
yourself some merch, including Culinary Leadership Fundamentals
55:01
and the Line Cook Survival Manual.
55:03
If you want early access to episodes, you can get them on
55:05
Spotify and Substack by becoming a paid member.
55:08
The link is in the notes. We'll see you next week.
55:10
Hit the porno music. No small address in the kitchen?
55:13
Mix it. Drop the chef, Dallas.
55:15
No fiction stirring up the beats here.